Disobedient Horse Archers!

[Proletariat]

I'm still trying to calm down after this bout of idiocy but I'll try to articulate...

I'm playing as the Scythians and I'm marching a small army south to do some Thracian thrashing. I've got a general, four h. archers, and one axeman unit.

I run across a lone Thracian army who had a pair of peltasts, a pair of hoplites, some other foot melee unit, and a general unit. Piece of cake right? Keep my axemen out of the fight, let the general hang back and let hell rain down with my HAs. Simple.

I let the HAs at it aiming them at various units when all of a sudden their general charges out after them. They obviously skirmish back a bit, but I decide to let the HAs just concentrate on the charging general unit, hoping to lower the enemy's morale with a quick leader-death. 2 of the HAs skirmish further off and slow down to a trot (one movement arrow), and then finally completely halt while the other two HAs stay attacking and skirmishing the general. Finally one of the pursuing HAs gets mowed down in a red corner but the other still skirmish attacks the general. The other two units that went off and decided to halt at the edge of the map? Stayed there. I tried everything. Commanding both at the same time, each separately, with them grouped, nothing. They just stood there doing absolutely nothing.

I thought at first it may be because my general was far from them. So I try double timing my general on over to them for the old personal invitation and still nothing. It was like they had been turned to stone.

I got so frustrated I ended up just turning the whole battle on 3x speed and put them under AI control to see if they would budge. Finally with 4 minutes left on the timer they decide to move again.

Needless to say I had nowhere near enough time to arrow the enemy to death and took the loss.

Has anyone else had this problem? Did I do something imbecilic that I just hadn't realized?

I'm going to go beat my dog and burn down my house now.

And then I'm going to look up some cheats to get my general and those massacred HAs back. Money is still way to come by at the stage of the game I'm at.

[Krusader]

If you want to avoid that trouble toggle Skirmish-stance off.

If you order your horse archers to attack in skirmish mode they will do so, but when they come to a map edge they stop. And if you try to order them around and there is an enemy unit nearby, they absoulutely refuse. They are trying to get away from the enemy, but there's a map edge, and they aint thinking about using the sides. When you turn off skirmish-stance they might do obey. If you had no enemy units near them, maybe there was a bug that made the HA believe there were enemy near?

I hate it when I try to order a unit thats in skirmish-mode to other places while they are being chased. they absolutely refuse to do so.

[Proletariat]

Initially the enemy general chased them edgewards, but for most of the time they were stuck nobody was there. Thanks for the tip though, I'll keep that in mind next time. That sounds like it might work and hopefully for my computer's sake it will. It came very close to being beaten with a lead pipe.

[anti_strunt]

Skirmish mode is a pain since the AI is so stupid, but turning it off requires even more micromanagement... Argh!

[Proletariat]

Absolutely. After reading the various threads on Scythians and Horse Archers, I was very eager to work over the Western half of Russia and Turkey with volley after volley, but I'm very close to saying 'to hell with it' and starting a new campaign as one of the Barbarian factions I have been neglecting.

[Doug-Thompson]

If you want to avoid that trouble toggle Skirmish-stance off.

That should do the trick. Also, one problem with HA is that they don't close in for the kill. They'll sit around, at maximum range while cavalry charge away.

[Edited P.S.: I forgot to mention that putting them on "hold ground" also helps -- just be sure to switch it off once you've got them to move out of danger.]

Try hitting ALT+attack and the HA will charge after the general's unit. They'll fire arrows all the way as the range closes. When your HA get close -- BEFORE they melee -- hit the backspace button to halt them and they'll halt and start skirmishing again.

Most important, though, is to remember that melee cav you have cornered one of your HA -- is cornered too. Charge them up the, uh, stern with some melee cavalry. If you have an eastern general, hit alt-attack to melee.

It's dangerous to have your general do that, I admit, but keep some other melee cav around for such emergencies.

[Barbarossa82]

I've had Roman equites suddenly go on strike about 3/4 of the way through a battle, so it might not be purely skirmish-related. They still answered "yes, sir" etc, but didn't move a muscle.

[Proletariat]

Thanks for that approach, Doug. I was able to finish my short Scythian campaign last night thanks to this. It would've been annoying in a micromanaging sense if my armies weren't primarily cavalry.

I haven't had the Velite problem I don't think, but usually when playing as the Romans my ranged units only play a small role in the beginning and then I ignore them due to friendly fire issues.

[Doug-Thompson]

You're welcome, Proletariat. Glad it worked.

[Doug-Thompson]

This is a good place to mention some of the finer points of HA tactics. After all, the Alt. Attack + halt at close range is a finer point.

(Anybody looking for the fundamentals: Go to this thread.)

The improvements since M:TW make micro of HA much less necessary, but that doesn't mean a little micro can't go a long way. This is especially true during an enemy rout, when the pressure of surviving the battle is off and there's time for a little obsessiveness.

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Halting a melee attack just before impact so the HA will close in on a unit quickly is a lot easier and safer if you go into the options menu and select a hotkey for halt other than "Backspace." "Backspace" requires you to lift your hand to hit it, taking your hand from the other useful hotkeys.

I use "Q." Adding a hotkey that's in easy, fingertip reach allows you to do almost anything that can be done with HA without taking your hand off the same spot on the keyboard. Also, having a handy halt key makes it safer when using "run" ("R" or double-click) to get them to close very quickly.


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Sometimes, an AI-controlled spear unit under fire will charge your HA, which will skirmish away. Then the spear unit will turn around and resume it's original position. Your HA will fire into their backs, but it's from a long range. They will also slowly follow the unit.

An agressive, running Alt/Halt attack into their backsides appears to be more disruptive and effective. Or you can click a spot of ground near the returning spear unit.

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Routing units will run through one of your units sometimes, but they tend to skirmish away. If an HA unit on skirmish mode is directly blocking a routing unit, both will skirmish away. It looks like two basketballs thrown at each other hitting in mid-air and flying far apart.

If you can get one HA in front of a routing infantry unit, have the HA walk slowly away from its victim, going the same direction. The enemy unit will "skirmish" back toward the middle of the map, turn around and then keep trying to go the original direction. Meanwhile, your HA are firing Parthian shots over the backsides of their horses the whole time.

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Alt/Halt attacks are very effective on infantry units that are trying to get off the battlefield but haven't routed yet. Once the HA are close and especially after a unit routs, it's usually better to run alongside on their shieldless side while trying to get out in front of them. You will be firing the whole time.

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"Go for the weapon side." That's a quick rule of thumb for remembering which side is shieldless and should be attacked.

Early on I sometimes got confused when thinking "All right, their shield is on THAT side which means I go to the OTHER side. OK, now they've routed and are running the other way, which means the shields now on the OTHER side and now I need to attack THAT side."

Right-handed people carry a weapon. The hand with a weapon in it carries no shield. Attack the weapon side whenever possible. This is especially important in R:TW because the shield is a much greater portion of the enemy's anti-missile protection than in M:TW.