1829: interactive history one step beyond

[Mr White]

I have/am enjoying the interactive histories on this forum a lot. I only have one remark: It's actually the storyteller that has the biggest influence on the story. (nothing wrong with that but sometimes I get the feeling that the main character can't lose)
That is why I will try to set up a new interactive history where there are more roles to play. So different members can play against each other.

The place: Europe, with the focus on the Kingdom of the Netherlands

The time: 1829 and after

The situation:


Kingdom of the Netherlands founded after the Congress of Vienna as a buffer against France and its revolution BUT there are internal tensions:

- The nobility and the rich speak French while Willem I made Dutch the official language.

- The clerics in the south are catholic and fear the protestant influences from the north (Willem I is also a protestant)

- There is an economical crisis in the kingdom with social agitation as a consequence.

=> this is a potential timebomb

Possible characters: - Willem I and his court
- The Belgian nobility and rich
- France
- England
- Russia
- Prussia
- Rotschilds (Jewish bankers who allegedly financed the Belgian uprising)
- ...

Rules: - The forum will be used for the story, official messages of the characters and help by others than the players themselves who want to offer advice, historical facts, ...
- The first who askes me to play a specific character/faction will get it but it is possible to play in group as long as just one is responsible for reporting to me and the official messages on the forum.
- the player(s) will explain their strategy to me (by personal message) after each new chapter within a certain time. After I got all the strategies, I will make aa new chapter with everybodies moves.
- It is possible to make alliances between players/factions. These can be both public as secret. Before starting the negotiations you have to inform me about it. After the negotiations both players must inform me with the results.
- This is an interactive history so don't do thins that were impossible or make choices that are very unlikely.



If you have any questions or remarks just post them here and I will answer as soon as possible.

Hope you will enjoy this game.

[AntiochusIII]

There seems to be an explosion of Alternative/Interactive History threads lately, which is nice, since I like them.

I have/am enjoying the interactive histories on this forum a lot. I only have one remark: It's actually the storyteller that has the biggest influence on the story. (nothing wrong with that but sometimes I get the feeling that the main character can't lose)

You missed a major, "pioneering" Interactive History "Antiochus III" in which the main character was killed by a mutiny on the shores of Epirus in his struggles against Rome. I, sadly, wasn't there to remedy the wrongs in time (absent from the .org for months) and only came to witness my own death after the adventure was done. Pretty funny how the org's resident Antiochus would miss an Antiochus III thread.

So, yes, foolish decisions can kill in these kind of threads, the largest one yet, Manstein's Woes, was very hard-fought.

The time: 1829 and after

1 year before the Belgian Revolution!?

Hope you will enjoy this game.

Certainly I will.

Willem I

Can I be him? Others could choose him too, if they'd like, ala the Children of Dune fashion for Alia. Multiple minds in one identity.

-----------------------------------------

So, basically, the rules means this thread is for questions and posting developments, while "we" (if there are other players for one character) discuss things through PM and send you our strategies by PM, right?

Also, is this the start or will you give out "starting" narratives like the other threads? If this is the start in itself, is it possible for me to meddle the balances in the House this late? What political maneuvers must I pursue? And, if you can, please give us some details about the conditions in Belgium right now...how many social groups there are (like, French nobility, Catholic Clerics, etc) and what are their stances.

[Mr White]

Well Antiochus III, you are right it isaroun the time of the Belgian independence (1830)

Sure you can be Willem I ( first come, first served) and you can get help from others ( For instance Willems brother was head of the Dutch army). I will give you Willems goals although they are very obvious: subdue the unrest in the south while maintaining as much of your campaign to make your kingdom as uniform as possible (language, religion, ...).

[Mr White]

To make some other factions interresting:

goals for France: keep the peace as France isn't up for a new war (correct me if I'm wrong) while trying to make the south of the KotN a part of France (there was some support for this within the southern provinces)

goals for England: keep up the good relations with the former allied countries while weakening the Dutch economy.

goals for the Rotschilds: (interresting charactor) Is both very important as insignificant as the only thing this family has is money. The goal is get more money or more influence without stepping on someones toes that can harm you.

[Strike For The South]

- England

may I be them? this sounds intresrting

[Mr White]

OK a second player has entered: Strike for the south as England.

Only the Belgian nobility and rich and maybe the French (to make it interestingà and we could start.

[Rodion Romanovich]

This sounds interesting, but unfortunately my knowledge of this particular period is rather limited (I have a gap between 1700 and 1800 and an even bigger one between 1800 and 1900, which will take some months for me to fill in).

Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering how the Rotschilds will play. They're not exactly a nation with army etc., so what are their exact resources and abilities to influence, other than sending money to support different sides? How would their progress in economy and influence be measured and fought by the other factions?

[Mr White]

This sounds interesting, but unfortunately my knowledge of this particular period is rather limited (I have a gap between 1700 and 1800 and an even bigger one between 1800 and 1900, which will take some months for me to fill in).

It doesn't matter. You just need to have a basic grasp of the nations back then, the military, economy and the politics. To be honest, I am no authority on the matter either but I was planning on rechearching it along the way. Someone with an extencive knowledge about the period to help me would be great though.

Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering how the Rotschilds will play. They're not exactly a nation with army etc., so what are their exact resources and abilities to influence, other than sending money to support different sides? How would their progress in economy and influence be measured and fought by the other factions?

Like I said, the Rotschilds are a rich ( beyond belief) jewish family of bankers. They made it possible to found Belgium ( and still get intrest on that loan I think). I put them in as a way to play a different way than most other characters. They will have to be more sneeky and backstabbing. Sure they don't have an army but there are solutions for that. How their influence and wealth will be measured is easy. I will know everything they have done and some things will be clear to all for example when they acquire a minister post.
In this game it isn't necessary to have clear winners or losers, it's all about perception.

[Franconicus]

Sounds very interesting - although I do not understand in detail how it will work. For example how wil you control the speed?

When are you going to start? I do not have enough time until 1.1.2006. But if you wait, I will take a German nation: Prussia (Bismarck )

Looks like Kraxis created a new genre. Now he has to control them all

[IrishMike]

Hmm..... If Russia is still open, I would love to be Russia.

[Mr White]

To Franconicus:
Controling the speed isn't that hard. All the players have a cetain period of time, to be determined by me and the players, to react after I posted a new chapter. I will then post a new chapter within a predetermined timeframe. If someone hasn't mailed me his strategy within time, (s)he will be supposed to hesitate and not take any action

We will only start when I feel we could have an interesting game, that is when the right characters are taken. But I'm willing to wait untill after new year (it'll probably take so long anyway).

So Prussia is taken by Franconicus.

I simply loved Kraxis' Mansteins woes.He could've guessed that something like this was in the air as at the end their were some posts about setting up a seabattle between 2 groups.

To ColdKnight:
Sure you can be Russia

To all:
I'm just waiting for someone to request 'la douce' France and the Belgian bourgeoisie (the rich). Without them the game is just half as fun.
(

[Kagemusha]

Sounds intresting. Can i be the Austria?

[Mr White]

You can be Austria. But I can't say it was a large player in this, but is an interactive history so not everything has to be as it went on in reality.

I will post the goals for Austria, Prussia and Russia later today or tomorrow ( I have exams in January so I have to be careful with my time but I can cope if I stay on schedule) but it'll probably be something like keep interior stable and help allies (= stop the republican ideas from spreading to far)

By republican ideas I mean the cry for more democracy.

[Mr White]

So here are the contestants so far:
- Antiochus III as Willem I
- Strike for the South as England
- Franconicus as Prussia
- ColdKnight as Russia
- Kagemusha as Austria

Still looking for France and the Belgian rich ( bourgeoisie) and (but this is not necessary the Rotschilds). All others will be denied

[Franconicus]

I will post the goals for Austria, Prussia and Russia later today or tomorrow ( I have exams in January so I have to be careful with my time but I can cope if I stay on schedule) but it'll probably be something like keep interior stable and help allies (= stop the republican ideas from spreading to far)

Doesn't every nation choose its own goals? Are the goals visible for everyone or just for each player?

[Mr White]

they are just some vague goals, just to be a bit historical correct.

[Lord Winter]

I will be france,
great idea Mr. White

[discovery1]

I'll be the wealthy Belgians. Don't know anything about he emergence of Belgium, and am too lazy to look stuff up, but that only makes it more fun.

[Mr White]

I'll be the wealthy Belgians. Don't know anything about he emergence of Belgium, and am too lazy to look stuff up, but that only makes it more fun.

I want to put some background information since 1815 on the net if you like ( all from wikipedia) That will give you a feel of the situation back then.

The game can begin now (people can still join if they want: play as the Rotschilds or together with another player). I will post the prologue on the 2nd of january.

We still have to decide the timeframe in wich you have to send me your moves by personal message and of course my timeframe for posting a new chapter.

I really hope this will be fun

[Franconicus]

Mr White,

just another question: What about secret diplomacy? Can I contact the other monarchs directly to adjust our diplomacy?

[Mr White]

just another question: What about secret diplomacy? Can I contact the other monarchs directly to adjust our diplomacy?

I think I mentioned it before. You can use secret diplomacy and probably need to as this will most likly be a political one rather than a military one. To do this you can contact the other players directly. I only ask that you inform me before engaging and afterwards with the result. If you don't I will act as if the treaty doesn't exist.

[AntiochusIII]

Aye. So we have to inform you before cutting deals with other monarchs?

I suggest at least 24+ hours for each chapter "decision time" because we have players from different timeline and all the pm time involved might take some time.

Look at the list, I found 4 historical allies who actually did nothing to save my monarchy. We must change that people! Where are you Wellington?

[Mr White]

I suggest at least 24+ hours for each chapter "decision time" because we have players from different timeline and all the pm time involved might take some time.

I would say about 48 hours or so and an aditional 3 days for me to gather all the information and write a new chapter. I want to ad that when explaining your tactics to me you can elaborate as much as you think is necessary but at the end you sum up your tactics in short so I don't have to search what you mean and there are no misunderstandings.

Look at the list, I found 4 historical allies who actually did nothing to save my monarchy. We must change that people! Where are you Wellington?

Well most of your allies had some benefit from the Belgian uprising and others were to busy with internal matters to be able to react. This is what will make the game so interesting, no fun in a civil uprising being crushed by the combined forces of multiple major nations.

That being said, a revolution isn't necessary or inevitable. It just happened because Willem I and his entourage was to hesitant or made the wrong decisions.

[ShadesWolf]

Interesting idea.

One of the scenarios on 'Victoria - An empire under the suns' start at this date. Well work a look if anybody is interested in the period

[Mr White]

Interesting idea.

One of the scenarios on 'Victoria - An empire under the suns' start at this date. Well work a look if anybody is interested in the period

What is Victoria-... exactly? A game, a book, ...?

[Mr White]

While I was studying financial management ( I'm in my last year master in public management) I found this in the book 'Overheidsbegrotingen (= government budgets) by prof H. Matthijs ( a professor of mine) the following :

In the period imediatly after the independance, Belgium didn't have any financial means. That is why the new country was financialy aided by the influencial bankers family " the Rothschilds". They have influenced the financial policy in Belgium for a long time. When we divide the rulers in name and the ones in power, the Rothschilds were certainly in the last category in Belgium. The new nation had a low income and the defences against the Dutch invasions were very expensive. That is why a gigantic loan of 48 million (old) gulden (+- 500 million euro) was closed with the Rothschilds.
This Jewish bankers family negotiated in secret with the Minister of finances (= the Chanselor of the Echequers) J.A. Coghen and this under supervision of King Leopold I. The conditions weren't very favourable because of the weak position of the Belgians.

Sorry if my translation isn't all that but I wanted to add this to prove that th Rothschilds did have major influence on the politics of the 19th century (and perhaps still today). A bit further Matthijs mentioned that the Rothschilds also financed the English in their campaign against Napoleon.
I think the Rothschildswould be a very interesting character to add to our game with a lot of influence and a lot of options strategy wise.

[mercian billman]

I think I'll take a crack at playing the Rothschilds. I'm assuming that my goal with them would be somewhere along the lines of making a lot of money, while at the same time trying to not piss off all of the major powers. Am I right?

[AntiochusIII]

What is Victoria-... exactly? A game, a book, ...?

Victoria: Empire Under the Sun (or something like that), a game by Paradox similar to Europa Universalis, and one of the favourites of many org patrons.

By its name I think you can guess its overall timeline.

[ShadesWolf]

What is Victoria-... exactly? A game, a book, ...?

Yes, as AntiochusIII stated, its an excellent games, that covers this period.

[Mr White]

I think I'll take a crack at playing the Rothschilds. I'm assuming that my goal with them would be somewhere along the lines of making a lot of money, while at the same time trying to not piss off all of the major powers. Am I right?

Thanks for trying them. I really wanted them in because I believe that they will make the game more interesting and unpredictable.

Yes their goal is to gain influence and wealth without stepping on toes you shouldn't have. Your dealings will be more shady, I presume.
But you have one major trump card: you have money, something almost all nations lack.


I will post the prologue of our little game noon tomorrow ( in about 15 hours for people in a different timezone). I am always open for suggestions or questions.