What is your Religion: Part II

[Zain]

What is your religion? If it's not listed below, please specify. Thanks!

-ZainDustin

[Zain]

I be a Christian, and Proud of it!



-ZainDustin

[Byzantine Mercenary]

wow!, 100% of the sample, (2) are christians!

[Kagemusha]

I think heretic Christian is pretty much what i am.

[Zain]

Lol, I seriously think it won't last. Would be nice if it did though.

-ZainDustin

[Mongoose]

Athiest*, though I would aslo have liked a "Godless Infidel" option.


Which, yes, is a valid answer for the question, given that it means that you have no religion.

[Zain]

Correct. Atheism is the same thing as Religion-less, which becomes a religion in itself

-ZainDustin

[lancelot]

Atheist to the core.

Superman doesnt exist, the Force doesnt exist, so God doesnt either.

[Divinus Arma]

I'm an "everythingist". Essentially I believe that God loves variety in all things, and so loves variety in our worship of him.

Holding a belief that "your" religion is the only true religion is arrogant and impossible to prove.

However, I am not so arrogant myself as to believe that you are wrong. Instead I believe that no one can ever truly know the will and intent of the Lord. This view is reflected in all religious teachings.


One more point: I also do not believ in Original Sin. This concept has lead to guilt-based existential perspectives, a view I cannot embrace. It would be better to allow humanity to die out, then to allow one human soul to perish for all eternity in damnation for merely failing to worship in a specific way. Thus, I can never accept Christianity, but I accept the fact that it is impossible for any living man or woman to know anything for 100% certainty.


To me, faith is believing in something that you know cannot possibly be true. It takes no faith to believe in, and worship, the Lord. This is because purpose defines reality. If there is purpose in one thing, then there exists purpose in all things.

[Zain]

Since when is Superman (A recentish CARTOON) the same as God?

How did the Universe come into being?

Just some questions, nothing personal or anything.

-ZainDustin

Edit: These questions are for Atheists, Lancelot in particular.

[Divinus Arma]

Since when is Superman (A recentish CARTOON) the same as God?

He is comparing God to a bedtime story. His view of God is the same as our view of Superman, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus.

How did the Universe come into being?

I'm no atheist, but I'll play anyway. An atheist views the universe as primarily the object of chance. Essentially, the view is held that initially all energy in the universe was concentrated and that a chance occurence caused this energy to interact with itself in a way that resulted in massive and total instability. The result is our big bang theory. The idea that order of any kind has formed from the chaos of this energy, is due in part to the realtionship between chaos, energy, order, and probablity.

Consider the following:

Imagine an empty space. Devoid of light, of objects, of heat or cold, of any impule whatsoever. Now consider an object of energy, a positive impule. This particle of energy can, may, may not, will, or will not act in any manner whatsoever. Will it double itslef? Can it? Will it not? Will it move or remain static? Can it? What if their are two similar particles of energy? Will they interact through attraction? Interact through negative attraction? Will they be netrual to each other? Now multiple this by infinity- an unknown quantity of energetic material in existence. This is chaos.

The difference between atheists and believers is essentially the relationship between chaos, order, and energy.

An atheist believes that this chaos, through chance alone, has interacted with itself to eventually become the current state of things. The existence of this energy is indisputable. How the energy initially came to be is irrelevant- it simply exists. This notion is furthered by scientifically solvent principles that matter cannot be destroyed- it can only alter its form.

On the other hand, someone who believes in God sees the order as evidence of God. A believer would see the relationship between chaos, order, and energy from a different perspective. The guiding principle behind this is that chaos itself is impossible. No true chaos actually exists. If true chaos existed, then that would mean that order could not exist, because the two are mutually exclusive. The question then becomes one of explaining our perception of chaos. This is where predictable chaos fills the gap for religious orderists. In essence, if chaos were to be engaged within defined limitations, then chaos itself could be made predictable. If chaos is predictable, the it is useful. Now we come to religion. Chaos can only be made predictable through purpose. By assigning intent to chaotic exchange, it can be controlled through prediction.

That is why I say, if there is purpose in one thing, then there is purpose in all things. Chaos is made predictable through purpose. This purpose is imposed by the will of God.

[Zain]

You said a lot of words, without saying a whole lot, in the sense of explaining how the Universe was created. You only mentioned a boat-load stuff about chaos, which is great. Anyway, the idea of matter not getting destroyed is great and all, but where did it all come from. It HAD to have come from somewhere.

-ZainDustin

[Divinus Arma]

You said a lot of words, without saying a whole lot, in the sense of explaining how the Universe was created. You only mentioned a boat-load stuff about chaos, which is great. Anyway, the idea of matter not getting destroyed is great and all, but where did it all come from. It HAD to have come from somewhere.

Actually, I side "a lot of words" which has a much greater meaning. Put this information into application.

It explains everything. The Lord does not act in some imaginery 4th dimension. He is a living God. His acts are thus visible for study in our lives. The evidence of His will surrounds us. The purpose behind His will is what escapes humanity.

Consider this: Close you eyes and let the world evaporate from your consciousness. Ignore the sounds, the smells, your breathing. Ignore your very mind telling you that this is stupid and what is the point.

Consider this state as the perspective of God. But the difference between you and God is that He would remain in this state for eternity, while you, a mere mortal, will perish.

Existence, our existince, is His purpose. The purpose of God's will is existence itself. We live for God's pleasure. And all religious texts offer that information.

He created the "universe" as an environment. But imagine a fish tank with no fish.

He created living this that will serve him automatically. They are pre-programmed to serve his will. Thus there is no good or evil in their actions. Their will is God's will.

Then he created humans. Unique as can be in that we have free choice. We can do the will of God or we can refuse. And it is this choice that defines not us, but the Lord.

By choosing to act as the Lord desires, we fufill his purpose. Our will reinforces his will. We are his reason for existence, and He is ours.



But what about violence, murder, senseless acts of selfishness?

That is our actions against God's will.

What about natural disasters and random accidents that cause death and mutilation?

That is the environment that God has placed us in. In order for it to exist, there must exist some chaos. We cannot exist ourselves without this environment. And God works within his creation, not outside of it.

What about Big Bang?

That is God's will. Let there be light!!!

What about evolution?

Again, the Lord works within his creation. We do not "magically appear". You are the product of living material that has existed for thousands, if not milions of years. We did not appear out of thin air. We came from genetic material that has existed for longer than recorded history.

Consider the concept of adam and eve. Before "the apple" they were unable to differentiate between good and evil. Thus they were incapable of following God's will voluntarily. An event, call it an apple or whatever you wish, occurred that transformed the human consciousness into what it is now. That event was the will of God. And it is the reason I do not believe in "Original Sin" as is presented by Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. We should not be regretful of that event. We should embrace it! And thank God for giving us the gift of knowledge of Good and Evil so that we may voluntarily choose to do his will.

[Zain]

You explained yourself very well, thank you. In comment to your talk about evolution, the bible says he used the dirt from the Earth to form our bodies, and breathed in our nostrils to give us life. So, Evolution looks shaky from that prospective.

-ZainDustin

[Divinus Arma]

In comment to your talk about evolution, the bible says he used the dirt from the Earth to form our bodies, and breathed in our nostrils to give us life. So, Evolution looks shaky from that prospective.

Oh, not at all my friend. You see, since matter cannot be destroyed, only "recycled", our bodies did indeed come from the earth. Our bodies are up of substances taken directly from digested plant and animal matter. This plant and animal matter itself did not come from nothing. The plants grew from a combination of nutrients in the soil, oxygen, adn water. So, in that sense, we most certinaly come from the dirt itself.

Consider further- Evolution explains that man, through a lengthy process, came from a series of less and less capable and adaptable beings. The very bottom of this step is the creation of life itself- a single-celled being with just the right balance of properties (probably a simple early form ofplant life). This was then "injected" with the ability to govern it's own behavior in accoradance with the programmed will of God. It became the difference between dirt and, well, living dirt. It would be indistinguishable to us. What is a dead man? He is not living, but yet he is made up of material that once was alive. What is the difference between a dead man and dirt? Nothing. The cells have ceased to be self-governing. That is the only difference between life and dirt.

But God would not create a man from thin air. He works within his own creation to achieve what we see today. YOU are the direct product of that "living dirt". YOU are actually a very very old being. You were not "created" at the day of your conception. You, or what would become you, existed in living material for millions of years. We are all actually much older than ourselves.

It is a misperception when we say our age is "35" or "12". That is merely the age of your present state.

[Zain]

Interesting... There are a lot of interpretations, and that's where God comes in. He is the one who gives you the feeling of what's right. That's where induvidual belief is, and some people just don't listen.

-ZainDustin

[Divinus Arma]

Interesting... There are a lot of interpretations, and that's where God comes in. He is the one who gives you the feeling of what's right. That's where induvidual belief is, and some people just don't listen.

Well, I disagree that interpretation is where God comes in. God comes in before that. It we who do the interpreting, and many times we who do the MISinterpreting.

I do not believe that God wants to "work from behind the curtain", like the wizard of oz. Nor does he work in mysterious ways.

God wants us to find him. Through science. At that point, all knees will bend. And humanity will be changed for the better. We will still have choice, but the relevance of that choice will be real. Because now, people can act like they do not have a choice by arguing that there is in God.

Take away the mystery and we do not take away choice. We make the choice more real than ever before.

[Zain]

Your writing is very poetic.

I believe that God can plant the seed in interpreting things.

I'm going to go for the night, so, I will talk to you later.

-ZainDustin

[Big_John]

as in the other thread i voted "other". as i have no religion, it seemed the best choice.

[Samurai Waki]

Don't Rightfully know... don't really give a rat's ***. I'm one of those all or nothing sorta guys, if I chose to follow christianity again I'd probably be one of those wack-job guys calling for a new crusade in the middle east.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Atheism is not a religion. But yes I am an atheist...

[Reenk Roink]

"Other" once again...

Still searchin'...

[JAG]

Correct. Atheism is the same thing as Religion-less, which becomes a religion in itself

-ZainDustin

Sigh, how many times...

I am an atheist.

[JimBob]

God exists. But then God is a very flexible idea no? Is he a destroyer? The suprere judge who will strike down any who disobey his will? Or is he merciful and loving? Will she accept all who do well to those around them. Maybe she doesn't care, moving about the world like a child in a sandbox, destroying creating as he sees fit. Maybe god is the sum total of existance?


Personally I don't care. If God wants to smack me for helping people, but doing it outside her rules, well then he is a god I don't want to deal with.

As a side note I do like the concept of the Jewish Satan as I understand it, he exists not as the Lord of Evil and God's nemisis but as a servant of God who challenges people. Am I mistaken in my understanding?

[Zalmoxis]

How is heathen a religion?

[Shaka_Khan]

Now I'm not into Satanism. Anyway, I've heard of Satanism for a long time, but I don't understand where they get the laws of Satanism. Do they make them up? Do they follow what Satan did by luring people to do evil? Maybe I'll google it.

[Avicenna]

You said a lot of words, without saying a whole lot, in the sense of explaining how the Universe was created. You only mentioned a boat-load stuff about chaos, which is great. Anyway, the idea of matter not getting destroyed is great and all, but where did it all come from. It HAD to have come from somewhere.

-ZainDustin

And surely if everything has to come from somewhere so does your God. Where did he come from?

[Reenk Roink]

And surely if everything has to come from somewhere so does your God. Where did he come from?

Wasn't He always there?

[Strike For The South]

SOTHERN BAPTIST

[Kralizec]

Agnostic, with some interest in deism (why isn't that an option anyway?)