New E3 video (handcam)

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

One of our repected forum members just picked up a new sneak peak video, not the best quality but sure it shows some more insight.


http://forum.thelordz.co.uk/viewtopi...5861&highlight=


Cheers,

LZoF

[Sir Robin]

Nice, I had not seen this one before.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Ah, my apologies dear man.

Obsolete post than.

LZoF

[Sir Robin]

No need to apologize , I am pretty sure I have not seen that musket one anywhere before.

He has a nice one there with the muskets and we see the knights charge along their line.

I do hope that is not a battle against the AI though because there is no actual battle line at all.

[Lord Adherbal]

the beauty of those graphics makes me cry, and the rediculous running speeds that's gonna waste it all make me cry ever harder. couldn't resist making jetfighter sounds every time those knights warped around the screen

[Duke John]

When I saw it I was continuously getting the feeling that it was a RTS with those units running all the time. It is too fast. It is like those movies directed by music video directors. Shiny, fast and beautifully framed, but no depth.

[screwtype]

Nice, I had not seen this one before.

Nice, but did you notice how the musketeers (if that's what they were) didn't turn to look at the horsemen attacking them?

That looked kind of weird...

[Sir Robin]

Yeah its pretty scarry how the AI reacted, or in better words, did not react to the attack. Hopefully this was just a "doesn't this look cool?" battle and the AI was crippled.

[screwtype]

Yeah, it was weird, they all just seemed to stand there like dummies while they got mown down.

I sure hope they don't behave like that in the game!

[IrishArmenian]

I did like to see the knights engulf the flintlock-shooter. Take that, early gunpowder units!

[Peasant Phill]

Some comments (may have been mentioned before) about the video in which you see the muskets fire.

-The giant canon: so 1 shot of a canon (or mortar or whatever) can destroy a whole unit of knights with just one shot? And the accuracy of the shot, smack in the middle of the group (in one shot).

-the routing sprinters: a Turkish unit routs and clears a distance of several yards in record breaking time with all of their equipment.

-the ghost knights: When the cavalry hit an infantry unit head on (on several occasions) they just went straight through it, like slicing through butter. It made me think of the ghost army in LOTR, they didn't even lose speed. One moment you could see the infantries backs, the next nanosecond this view was obscured by all the horses.

-dry rain: It was clearly raining in the video, but it had no effect on the battle itself. Archers could use fire arrows (why would one even want to do that when it's raining) and musketeers could fire without any problems. It was really pouring but making fire was apparently no problem.

Hopefully this was just a promotion video and not the real game. I believe it is as there are a lot of 'movie' shots in it (like the shots of the big canon when it was still inactive). But still it doesn't look good for M2TW and just lets hope that our great modding community can fix enough for the game to be somewhat realistic.

[edyzmedieval]

I really doubt the speed is that high. I think the guy pushed fast forward or something. I refuse to believe it's that high(the unit speed).

Anyhow, I still love MTW2 and I will surely buy it.

[Peasant Phill]

I really doubt the speed is that high. I think the guy pushed fast forward or something. I refuse to believe it's that high(the unit speed).

Well I thougt of that too but we wont know for sure untill the demo comes out.

[Lord Adherbal]

The giant canon: so 1 shot of a canon (or mortar or whatever) can destroy a whole unit of knights with just one shot? And the accuracy of the shot, smack in the middle of the group (in one shot).

oh yeah I forgot to complain about that tactical nuke, it must've shocked me so much that it was automatically erased from my mind to avoid a trauma.

[Gustav II Adolf]

Yea, the video looks cool but it must be a case of overpromoting the action in the game. With that unit speed and nuke stuff the game would stop beeing in the total war genre. But if this is the real deal then i´m afraid ca will loose a lot of the current fans.


-

[econ21]

There was similar stuff with the trailers for RTW - IIRC, elephants and flaming onagers appeared extremely lethal, overpowering even. It looks dramatic, even if it offends the "historical realism" school (of which I am a member). In the actual game, elephants and onagers are still nasty but don't unbalance it terribly - in part because they are so rare. I rather like fighting elephants in RTW - they are one of the few real AI threats. AI onagers, I never seem to encounter unless attacking the Senate. I don't bring them myself as I want the strategic mobility (and they are largely unhistorical in field battles). So I predict very powerful cannons will exist in M2TW but they will probably appear rather late in the game when most players have given up and restarted another campaign.

[edyzmedieval]

I'm part of the Historical Realism school, but it doesn't change much if a big bunch of forumers want historical realism.

CA decides what they include in the game, not us.

[Furious Mental]

It's true that the onagers and elephants were rather overdone in the trailers, but this doesn't appear to be a trailer to me. Although personally I'm not too worried because I expect it should be easy enough to mod out the nuclear artillery shells. I just hope it doesn't represent the developers' attitude to the game overall. If I want some enjoyably ludicrous gameplay I'll stick on GTA: SA.

[nameless]

Well hope for the best then.

[Callahan9119]

cannons, elephant cannone, whatever...its the unit SPEED that is the worst...if it ships in any kind of state we have seen in all the trailers it stops being TW and becomes a aoe, ron imitation

i dont mind taking liberty with history regarding units....its a game, the modders will make it accurate....but the gameplay is taking a bad turn

as someone who has played since STW i looked forward to rtw more than i do mtw2, who knows maybe they will suprise me and honor the original concept of this series.

pretty sure its mostly new devs working on this

[x-dANGEr]

Am quite tired of this discussion, "RTW is a clickfest game", "It isn't RTW, it is AoE..", "RTW is a RTS..".. And I've gone through it many times. Stop liking RTW to AoE, in AoE their is no shield wall/flanking that matters/charge/hold/wedge/morale/general.. You're simply bashing RTW, at least IMO; liking RTW to a game with no strategies/tactics is simply like liking a modern US tank to a late 60's Iraqi one..

I haven't seen the video, but as long as the speeds are like RTW's, am fine with it..

[Lord Adherbal]

Stop liking RTW to AoE, in AoE their is no shield wall/flanking that matters/charge/hold/wedge/morale/general

RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for disorganised formations
RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for placing units on top of eachother
RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for units that are flanked or surrounded
RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for loose formation
RTW doesnt have a combat bonus for wedge formation

what was that you were saying ?

[naut]

When the units engage each other, . Its crazy, there guys jumping and all sorts of crazy graphic movements.

I hope the unit speed is easy to mod slower! Because those knights break the sound barrier.

EDIT: I think we should ensure peoples opinions are respected.

[TB666]

It's true that the onagers and elephants were rather overdone in the trailers, but this doesn't appear to be a trailer to me.

The elephants and onagers were overpowered like hell in the RTW gameplay movies too. This was as some people have pointed out a scripted battle.
The badboy cannon was suppose to wipe the knights out to give them a "glorious" end. While I don't doubt this cannon will be powerful in the final game, it will most likely be very inaccurate.

RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for units that are flanked or surrounded

Yes there was.
The morale dropped if the soldiers were surrounded and even more when they were flanked.

[x-dANGEr]

RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for disorganised formations
RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for placing units on top of eachother
RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for units that are flanked or surrounded
RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for loose formation
RTW doesnt have a combat bonus for wedge formation

what was that you were saying ?

What RTW are you talking about? Have you ever played RTW?

RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for placing units on top of eachother

Says who? It doesn't have to have a 'stats' penalty to have a penalty, it surely does have a gameplay one. (You get hit by more arrows, you are easier to flank, you are easier to surround (Morale Penalty))

RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for units that are flanked or surrounded

Combat Penalty? No, other ones? Hell yes.. At least, why should their be a combat penalty? Isn't the 'not-calculated Shield + Defence Skill' through attacks from the back enough? Not considering the big 'morale' penalty..

RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for loose formation

Who told you so? I remember even the guide in the game says it has..

RTW doesnt have a combat bonus for wedge formation

No it doesn't, but it doesn't need to to make Wedge any useful, I'm sorry if you want an ability to just click and go.. Wedge in RTW has a sense, and is used to break formations, rather than "Wow, it gives + 5 attack.."

The bottom line, sure some things aren't like M: TW; with the simple +4/-2 stats effects, it is quite deeper than that, and if you tend to not see or go through the game so deep, am sorry, but you then aren't qualified to judge it. Penalties/bonuses doesn't need to be +5/-2.. The wedge formation for example: You can use a Wedged Clib to go through a Chosen Axemen unit with least casualties messing the Chosen Axemen units, making it vulnerable to a charge from another Cav unit to put an end to it's misery.

[econ21]

[1] RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for disorganised formations
[2] RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for placing units on top of eachother
[3] RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for units that are flanked or surrounded
[4] RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for loose formation
[5] RTW doesnt have a combat bonus for wedge formation

AFAIK, we did lose [2] moving from MTW to RTW but I think you are being a little misleading on the other points.

Re [1] There is no "disorganised" state per se in TW. But
(a) a strung out formation - eg one pursuing a routing enemy - will tend to do worse than an ordered one, because its men will get into combat piecemeal with a more concentrated opponent
(b) a stationary braced formation can cope with a cavalry charge better than a "disorganised" one.
(3) disorganisation severely hampers phalanxes
(4) the "hold formation" button captures some aspects of being in proper formation - your defence is higher, but your attack is reduced

Re [3] This is wrong because:
(a) the morale penalties to being flanked etc are very severe
(b) individual soldiers have facing and cutting at one's flank or back does increase kill chances (and stops your target striking back until they turn about)

Re [4] Does there need to be a "penalty"? In loose formation, you will get fewer men into contact with an enemy and hence kill less (be killed more) in melee.

Re [5] Are you sure of this? In STW and MTW, wedge raised attack and lowered defence. I would assume it's the same in RTW.

[Duke John]

What RTW are you talking about?

Which Adherbal are you talking about? Adherbal not having played RTW, that is a good one.

[x-dANGEr]

AFAIK, we did lose [2] moving from MTW to RTW but I think you are being a little misleading on the other points.

Re [1] There is no "disorganised" state per se in TW. But
(a) a strung out formation - eg one pursuing a routing enemy - will tend to do worse than an ordered one, because its men will get into combat piecemeal with a more concentrated opponent
(b) a stationary braced formation can cope with a cavalry charge better than a "disorganised" one.
(3) disorganisation severely hampers phalanxes
(4) the "hold formation" button captures some aspects of being in proper formation - your defence is higher, but your attack is reduced

Re [3] This is wrong because:
(a) the morale penalties to being flanked etc are very severe
(b) individual soldiers have facing and cutting at one's flank or back does increase kill chances (and stops your target striking back until they turn about)

Re [4] Does there need to be a "penalty"? In loose formation, you will get fewer men into contact with an enemy and hence kill less (be killed more) in melee.

Re [5] Are you sure of this? In STW and MTW, wedge raised attack and lowered defence. I would assume it's the same in RTW.

Ogh, I forgot to reply to his first note, but anyway, you seem to have covered it.
Also:

RTW doesnt have a combat penalty for disorganised formations

First, you will lose control of your units, try this:
Go ERE and your friend ERE rebels, you get 10 plumbs and he gets 5 clibs. Now you turn fire at will off, and let his clibs walk through your infantry, look how missed will your infantry be, try to organise them then..

Second, you will be to easy to crush. After doing what I said above, let your friend charge your army with 5 Equite CATAS after it has been dis-organised. All he needs to do is retreat and charge again, till you're done.

[Furious Mental]

At least in alot of screenshots the armies seem to be in formation. I am aware, though, that screenshots can be and often are staged.

[sunsmountain]

Though all of those 5 points ARE actually covered in the game RTW, it doesn't really matter because of the low overall morale: Units will soon start routing regardless, and fighting will not last long enough for simple +3 or -4 or whatever to influence anything.

The longest fighting i have seen is between 2 units of spartan hoplites, and even that was over way too soon to my taste. So what should I do now? Increase the hitpoints of all units? Increase the morale? That means a penalty for all the units that had high morale/hitpoints to begin with...

I don't even mind the marching/charging speeds, it's a game after all. you can define speeds to be what they are, and these are motion captured animations. Make the battlemap larger and you will be glad to cross it faster. It would be nice to have a little more time to maneuver though, so use Pause...

From the looks of it the knights in MTW2 are even faster than the cavalry was in RTW...