Angry post

[zarker]

This is the last franchise game I buy purely on reputation.

It's clearly unfinished, and I'm still waiting for Neverwinter Nights 2 to be patched upto a playable condition. I almost called this thread "Last SEGA game I buy" - but NWN2 is ATARI.

Is this some new trend for distributers (or whatever they call themselves) - forcing developers to release games before they're properly completed?

I'm sick of it. Next new game I buy I'm reading the forums instead of trying the Demos.

[danfda]

Why are you still waiting for NWN2? Aside from a few very minor problems, the game runs pretty smoothly and without any glitches. Pretty playable, IMO. So is M2TW. Some call the shield bug a "game breaker" and the AI does some odd things, but those are being worked on. They'll get fixed, beit by the dev or by the rather extraordinarily talented modders in the community. So my advice is to play the game that you spent money on('cause it works and is still really fun to play, all issues included) and relax. Yelling doesn't make patches come out any quicker. ;)

And you and I both know that publishing companies are going to push games out onto the market as fast as possible. There is little you can do about it. That said, since you have the game already, play it. It won't cause brain tumors. :P

[zarker]

sorry - just a knee jerk reaction.

I've seen a lot of threads on bugs in this forum, and basically these haven't spoiled by enjoyment, or even been noticed (but then i dont tend to notice the deeper mechanisms that much). But when i do see annoying glitches - like units giving up on chasing down routing units, cavalry 'escorting' routing units off the fieeld instead of skewering the lots of them post haste, and many units holding committies for a 10 seconds debating if they should follow my last order while their target recedes further and further into the distance, just really gets to me.

I feel like taking the EXIt BATTLE option, instead of the CONTINUE FIGHTING option when an army routs, cos it will be a lot less frustrating.

I never noticed the unfinished feel for RTW - but maybe thats cos I didn't buy it until the gold version came out, and was already on path version 1.6.

And yes - i know distributers are prepared to throw runnish out on the tail of a success. I've seen enough sequel movies to appreciate that.

I suppose - at least developers can patch their productions after release, unlike film producers.

[baron_Leo]

Did you joing the org to complain about the game? Sorry man, there have been dozens of threads like this one before, but there are still thousands of people playing the game. Because the game is far more than playable. Yes, teher are loads of bugs, but you would never realise most of them if you wouldnt read about them. And they would not bother you. Be honest: did you realize there is a 2H or shield bug? No you didnt. You could enjoy this game if you wanted to. I can and lots of people can also. You wont acomplish anything with complaining about the game. And you should give a try installing some mods and fixes. For example Carls' bug fixer or the LTC mod. They make the game even better.

[Bijo]

Heh heh heh

Zarker, Zarker. I know exactly what you mean, but - as kinda said already - they'll publish as soon as possible. It's all about the $. And there ain't much gong to stop 'em from doing so.

Seems that Sega's been quite bad on your list. But I have a possible therapy for you that could make you feel better: get yourself an old Sega console or a recent Sega game. And I mean to really buy it and have it in your hands, and then you put some oil or something on it and you burn the thing to nothing!

I've seen it working for some people (and they didn't even mind the $ they paid!).

[kublikhan3]

I think he has a right to vent if he wants. If games are being released below community standards we customers SHOULD be complaining, or else future games will be pushed out even more buggy in the future. "They didn't complain last time, this time I want you to shorten your QA cycle by a further 2 weeks." and so forth. And no, you don't have to troll forums to see bugs in the game. I have seen my cavalry "escort" routing units out of the battle many times.

You may like all bugs pushed off in one thread with the other 99.9% of the forum to be praise of the game, but I say the more people complaining about a problem the better. Better chance it will be fixed, and better odds problem will not happen again in the future.

[Ar7]

I completely agree with you, this game is rushed and it's easier to name what actually works instead of listing the bugs. And to answer some people, yes I did notice all the bugs when I began playing, since peasants beat armored sargeants and the DEKs that charged mailed knights from behind didn't kill anything.

I mean look at the list of bugs, every single one of them is game breaking:

On the battle level:

-Shield Bug
-2H bug
-Cavalry charge bug
-Chasing routers bug
-The delay that often occurs between the time when the order was given and it actually was carried out.

On the strategic level

-Diplomacy is useless
-Traits don't work as they were supposed to
-Random AI behaviour that really nullifies any hint on strategy

All of this made the game a painful experience for me, I tried to enjoy it, I really did, but I simply could not. It is full of bugs and missing the actualt strategic element, it's way too linear.

So until a decent amount of patches or mods comes out I am switching to EUIII

[Dutch_guy]

I've seen a lot of threads on bugs in this forum, and basically these haven't spoiled by enjoyment, or even been noticed (but then i dont tend to notice the deeper mechanisms that much). But when i do see annoying glitches - like units giving up on chasing down routing units, cavalry 'escorting' routing units off the fieeld instead of skewering the lots of them post haste, and many units holding committies for a 10 seconds debating if they should follow my last order while their target recedes further and further into the distance, just really gets to me.

Aye, I agree 100 percent with the quoted. I do hate it when the enemy king flees the battle successfully after my light cavalry stopped chasing him at least a dozen times. It's a pain, but then again, I was a pain in Rome also. It's the same problem, coted in better graphics - it really is.

I think you mentioned playing Rome, right ? Well then I hope we can agree on it that Medieval2 was / is in a much better condition than Rome was at release. Don't let the various (great) modifications fool you, they're already in the making for M2 also, plus, a new patch is on the way.

You have every right to complain (in a civilised fashion, as you've shown thus far), but keep in mind that it's quite popular to do so and it isn't a must. May seem strange, that last bit, but then again one does get the impression this happens more than one might think. How many threads are made which highlight the good things of the game, at least a dozen less than those augmenting the flaws of it.Which can be explained by the simple fact a lot of content people are either playing or not registered, but that's something else entirely

[Tuidjy]

Yes, the game is buggy, but it is still enjoyable, as far as I am concerned.
I disagree that the bugs are hard to notice. On the battlefield, the AI
freezes up one time in three, the two hander bug is easy to notice, and I
knew there was something wierd with the way peasants and mercenary
crossbowmen behaved in melee.

I bought NWN2, MTW2, and Gothic3 at pretty much the same time. Of these,
NWN2 was somewhat buggy, I finished it, and have not touched it since.
Gothic 3 is horribly buggy, and I am waiting for a few patches.
MTW2 is annoyingly buggy, but still being played all the time.

By the way, one has to play Lands to Conquer in order to believe how much
it improves the game. Just let the AIs develop for a while, and you'll get a
game that's close to perfect.

[Satyr]

Just let the AIs develop for a while, and you'll get a
game that's close to perfect.

Close to perfect? It doesn't matter how long I let the AIs develop, they are still brain dead. When I quit winning battles with 10 to 1, or even 100 to 1, casualties, then I will consider the game fixed. In the meantime I will play something else and hope the next patch fixes things.

[FrantzITA]

bad chasing of routing units = player fault 99%
bad cavalry charges = player fault 100%
2h bug = player fault 1000% , there are 104938 patches for it
whining and not playng VH/VH = Super Mario total war's player
Whining without patch 1.1 = zombie player
whining because MTW2 have less units than MTW = liar player

there is no random AI strategy , can be better but watch the AI files and you will see that is not random ( can be alot better of course , the rule that if you are in peace for 4 turns someone will attack you is lame )

other complaints are totally not realistic like wanting more a more scissors-paper-stone gameplay , or complaining about natural behaviour of units

[Lusted]

Close to perfect? It doesn't matter how long I let the AIs develop, they are still brain dead. When I quit winning battles with 10 to 1, or even 100 to 1, casualties, then I will consider the game fixed. In the meantime I will play something else and hope the next patch fixes things.

What he said was:

By the way, one has to play Lands to Conquer in order to believe how much
it improves the game. Just let the AIs develop for a while, and you'll get a
game that's close to perfect.

He was not commenting on the default game.

My thoughts on the game: yes, the release version does not feel finished, just like with RTW. But then i think about what RTw was like with 1.5(a seriously marked improvement) and i know that M2Tw will just get better and better with each patch. Plus the fact i know some bugs are gonna be fixed in 1.2 helps me make that statement as well(thank you chats with Palamedes).

[JCoyote]

2h bug = player fault 1000% , there are 104938 patches for it

excusing corporate mistakes by uncompensated community repairs = fanboy mistake 10000%

FUNCTIONAL 2H is in no way Sega or CA's fault yet, I wish everyone would stop excusing a flaw in the game that's only "fixed" because many, many people put a lot of unpaid work in to fix something that still causes balance issues.

NO ONE should HAVE to go any further than getting an official patch to make the game work the way it was intended. And modder's time as a community would be better spent trying to make a new game on the engine, instead of trying to make it work at all.

Sorry to dump on you Frantz but your post was disrespectful and makes light of actual programming issues in the game.

[Ulstan]

You know, you don't have to buy the game immediately when it comes out, if you're worried about it being buggy due to being rushed.

Waiting a month or two till after release for glaring bugs to be fixed is hardly a novel concept for software. For example: I have no intention of upgrading to windows Vista right now, however, yet I am sure I shall do so at some point in the future.

[JCoyote]

Waiting a month or two till after release for glaring bugs to be fixed is hardly a novel concept for software.

I waited a month and a half... SPECIFICALLY til after the first patch was out. Now it's 3 months and... Towers don't work, shields are fundmentally flawed, half the traits don't work, 2H still bugged and fixes derail balance... the game is still fundamentally unfinished. We're not talking glitchy video or program hangs now and then; it's the actual gameplay that isn't complete. Try again.

I've long held that opinion; it's not a buggy product, it's an incomplete one. Fixing a few bugs that pop up after release is fine, IT HAPPENS. But releasing something that isn't truly finished is different. And I don't think companies should be encouraged in doing so. Using this model, eventually you'll buy a new car, but you won't get all the seats and sparkplugs until the next model year is about to start.... which is the same as making people wait til the price drops before they have a finished product.

[Skott]

Well, I've done my fair share of cursing CA for not fully playtesting their games and fixing their bugs but I can say one positive thing. At least the fans (thats us) can mod the game and make our own fixes. More than I can say for alot of other pc games out there that got bugs galore.

Kudos to the MTW2 modders and their fixes!

[Memnoch]

I think he has a right to vent if he wants. If games are being released below community standards we customers SHOULD be complaining, or else future games will be pushed out even more buggy in the future. "They didn't complain last time, this time I want you to shorten your QA cycle by a further 2 weeks." and so forth. And no, you don't have to troll forums to see bugs in the game. I have seen my cavalry "escort" routing units out of the battle many times.

You may like all bugs pushed off in one thread with the other 99.9% of the forum to be praise of the game, but I say the more people complaining about a problem the better. Better chance it will be fixed, and better odds problem will not happen again in the future.

Ultimately the best way to complain is with your wallet - either return the game and ask for a refund (if you can) or just don't buy any more games from a particular publisher/developer. The law of supply and demand will ultimately force a change in behaviour from the publisher/developer. And send an email or something to the boffins in charge to let them know of your displeasure.

Personally I don't have much to complain about, I'm enjoying the game, although I have most of the eye candy turned off. But everyone's experience is different.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

What he said was:



He was not commenting on the default game.

My thoughts on the game: yes, the release version does not feel finished, just like with RTW. But then i think about what RTw was like with 1.5(a seriously marked improvement) and i know that M2Tw will just get better and better with each patch. Plus the fact i know some bugs are gonna be fixed in 1.2 helps me make that statement as well(thank you chats with Palamedes).

The problem here is that we paid for the default game!!!

Congrats on your mod. I am sure many enjoy it considerably, but the problem is that not everybody likes to play a modded game or prefers to mod there own. Mods do alter the game to suit a particular style and this may not suit everyone.

MTW2 = Total disappointment

[Lusted]

MTW2 = Total disappointment

I'd hardly say that. And if you read my post i refer to the patches as well, which will only fix the bugs and make the game better. From the sounds of it 1.2 will certainly be a good patch.

[FrantzITA]

one spend 59,99 euro for a game and not 5 minutes to download a mod that make the game almost perfect ? there are 2H fixes that dont change the experience or gameplay !!... Whiner = Lazy

[fabiano]

one spend 59,99 euro for a game and not 5 minutes to download a mod that make the game almost perfect ? there are 2H fixes that dont change the experience or gameplay !!... Whiner = Lazy

For 59,99 I want the perfect game, not the players to fix it.

They are not doing a favor to release a complete game, we paid for it. We are doing the favor here. And I know that everyone does that today, but thats still not right.

If they need 2 months to make the fixs, they know the game was not ready when they release it, but they did not tell me that...

In march the game will be perfect, with the patchs (I hope) for $29,99, when the ones who believed in CA bought it for much more for a good, but very bugged game. Not right...

Next time we are going to by the box for $59,99 and the players need to write the whole game... :)

Fabiano

[SnowlyWhite]

it must be a very twisted logic when you pay more in advance for a buggy game(aka - you're a fan wishing to support the company, and the way you can do it is exactly by buying it at release time) while the better option seems to wait for price to go down and bugs to be fixed.

And there's no logic whatsoever in claiming there are mods that fix the said issue. Maybe one(aka - if you'd have at least a vaguest clue about how this industry work - 90% or so actually) doesn't want to spend time on the internet to find fixes for the games they bought.

there are 2H fixes that dont change the experience or gameplay

you're even clueless in what you're saying, beside being absurd - the fix depends on what anim. you're using to patch that unit, which in consequence means you also have to alter their stats accordingly for a rebalance(aka - a basically subjective change which CHANGES the experience)

bad chasing of routing units = player fault 99%

like... I've clicked the mouse with the right hand when I should be using the left hand? Or what?
How stupid can you be to say that, a task that's supposed to be done by one click, which should have a certain effect, is the player's fault when it doesn't happen? Or we didn't pray enough to the unknown Gods of MTW that this time the chasing will be properly done? What exactly's the player's fault?

whining and not playng VH/VH = Super Mario total war's player

vh/vh is still horendously easy; maybe you're a poor player, but that doesn't make the level harder then it is, which is still ridiculously easy.

Last thing - I don't know how, but only the gaming industry is the place where we're encouraged by various persons, with debatable iq, to believe that a buggy product should be the standard of the market.
I'm making software for almost 10 years, with a decent success, and sure as hell I've never saw a penny before I've actually delivered an working product! And sure as hell I never thought to ask the customer to fix the application for me!

[econ21]

So, we are back to "whining" complainers vs "stupid" fanboys. Angry posts and rants always seem to degenerate into this.

If people insist on debating the merits of apples vs oranges, they should at least do so civilly.