Merchants

[americancaesar]

As usual, I am bad at the economic aspect of M2TW, especially merchants and their use. How does one properly use them to make the most money and stop them from being put out of business by everybody and their grandma!


AC

[Ciaran]

A good first step is to try and get a Merchant´s Guild, to do that train all your merchants in one city and refuse any other guild but the Merchant Guild there.
If you can identify a monopoly resource, train your merchants up on those, once they´ve got a couple of finance points you can either improve their skill further by attempting some takeovers or you can send them to the real money makers - the cloth at Constantinople or the sugar, spice and cotton near Antioch. There´s also a gold mine near Ragusa, the only one immediately accessible, if I´not mistaken, so try and occupy that, too.

[TevashSzat]

The good resources you shold put merchants on are gold, ivory, slaves, amber, and silk in the old world. Try to monoploize it, have only your merchants on the resources and you can easily get 200-300 gold with an okay merchant. Should you get access to the new world, get a ton of merchants since there are like 7-8 resources that just make a crazy amount of money for you

[HoreTore]

If your capital is in the levant, antioch for example, iron is a good resource too. After gold, ivory and amber, iron is the fourth best resource I have as the turks based in antioch. They make more money here than on the silk and spices.

With my capital in antioch, the list for best resource is this:

1. Gold
2. Amber
3. Ivory
4. Iron
5. Silk
6. Slaves

[TevashSzat]

Also remember that you get money upon a succesful aquisition so do not hesitate to try to aquire a merchant even if it is 1 level above you since through my experience, attacking merchants seem to be more successful

[Indy1958]

Dear Gents:

Good afternoon from Canada!! I hope this finds you and yours well. As for me, I could complain...yadda, yadda, yadda.

Where would one get ivory? I know it's actually the tusks of elephants, but I don't see any of those in this game!!!!!

By the by, I wrote down the list for my own future reference. I also want to thank you very kindly as to telling me how to make money in this game!!!!!

Live long and prosper, take care and thank you kindly!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.

P.S. What are your thoughts on sulphur? I remember seeing little yellow piles of the stuff--one of those being on Sicily.

[TevashSzat]

I know for a fact that it is next to at least Dongola which is right below Cairo and Alexandria

[tex_-]

timbuktu and arguin also have ivory

[mbrasher1]

The best trade goods seem to be clustered, so having control of certain areas guarantees a good supply of bankable income. Plus, there are so many trade goods in some areas that it attracts other faction's merchants, which can then be acquired by your now-skilled merchants.

The best areas for trade goods are (in no particular order)

Antioch
Constantinople
Northern Italy
Low Countries (near Bruges and Antwerp)
Timbuktu
Baghdad

[Daveybaby]

First of all, as has already been stated, work on getting your merchants guild - build all of your merchants from the same city, and refuse all guilds except a merchants guild there.

The most important thing to do with your merchants (as with most other strategic units) is to train them up.

Stage 1 : Early Training
Initially you need to sit them on a secure local resource (by secure i mean: protected from the AI's merchants coming in and taking out your merchants through acquisition). To do this you need to either:
(1) Find a safe resource away from the action (e.g. as england most of the resources on the british isles should be safe)
(2) Protect your low skill level merchants with your high skill merchants, by aquiring any AI merchants as soon as they wander into your lands
(3) Move your low level merchants off of a resource if they are in danger of being acquired by a higher level AI merchant - enemy merchants will only 'attack' yours while they are actually trading. This is a bit of an exploit as you can take out the AI's merchants at any time.
(4) Use the 'fort exploit', and build a fort on a resource and put all of your merchants in there. This is a totally cheesy exploit but thats up to you and your consicence.

Keep your merchants trading locally until they reach level 4 - the value of the resource isnt really important - whats important is that over time your merchants will gain skills from trading.

Stage 2 - Aquisition Training
Then you need to move on to phase 2 of your training - acquisition. Move your merchants to the borders of your lands and start taking out AI merchants. Initially try to find a couple of low level (0 or 1 skill) merchants to aquire as this should be a dead-cert success, but in general only ever tackle a merchant with at least 2 skill levels less than your own, and you should be fairly safe. You will find that pretty much every successful aquisition will give your merchant another skill increase. Plus, you get quite a bit of money from doing this.

If a high level AI merchant wanders into your territory dont try to take them out - just avoid them like the plague. Sometimes they will go away, and sometimes they will just settle on a resource and then never move again until they die - but sometimes they will actively prey on your own lower level merchants, so keep them out of harms way.

Stage 3 - Profit!
Once your merchants get to skill level 7 or 8 its time to move them to somewhere really profitable, such as the aforementioned gold, silver, amber, spices, silk and ivory. Check this thread for lists of reource locations and their relative values.

Note that:
(1) The higher the skill level of your merchant, the more the resource will be worth
(2) The further away a resource is from your capital, the more it will be worth
(3) If you have trade agreements with the faction that owns the land the resource is on, you will get more money
(4) If a region has multiple copies of the same resource, then controlling them all will gain you a monopoly bonus - e.g. i like to send 4 high level merchants down to constantinople and nicaea and monopolise the 4 silk resources down there.

By this stage your merchants should be of a high enough level that they are virtually immune from takeover by AI merchants, so you can just leave them where they are and let the money roll in. However, in some congested areas (e.g. constantinople), merchants can get barged off of a resource by a passing diplomat or army, so make sure to check on them every now and then to make sure they are still sitting on their resource properly.

Eventually your highly skilled merchants sitting on valuable resources on the other side of the map will die of old age. I always have a production line of merchants going through the training process so there are always suitably skilled merchants ready to replace them. Once you get a higher level merchants guild and the higher level trade buildings, you can train merchants who will start out at skill level 4, which will save quite a bit of time and effort.

[sableblack]

hi guys,

this is how i do it. first realise that your capitol location changes the value of every resource in the game. also realise that income for a resource also depends on the skill of the merchant.
first i make 2 merchants asap at start of game and put them to work in an region owned by me with 2 of the same resource type. one of each. they will then get monopolist line of traits. when they are level 4-5 i move them to the resource they will make the most money on preferably 3-4 moves turns away then they will get good traveeler traits.
then i leave them there and attack any lower level merchant to come along.
attacker has the advantage unless the defender is on a resource trading. in that case defender has advantage.
i then make new merchant.
i max out merchants as i do priests. once you have access to good resources you merchants will make 100-600 per turn and quickly exceed purchase price.
what you must not do is make new merchants in areas populated by even one high level foreign merchants.
some people use their high level merchants as hunters and get the massive rewards for acquiring high level foreign merchants. for me this involves too much micro-management and i prefer to fire and forget. if i notice an opportunity i will take it but otherwise too much like hard work.
merchant guilds make better starting merchants. also they give trade bonus to the city hosting them. i never reject merchant guild and often wait for one to be offered.

[phunkbot]

i dont bother with training merchants on resources in my starting provinces, i usually send them for contsantinople's silk / russia's amber as soon as they are created toghether with a spy. What i try to do is end as many of the turns they take to get there on a resource, once on the silk i try to use up all of my movement points while ending the turn on a resource, i think that gets you the traveler and market controller traits. Also, building a town hall and above in the city you train merchants gets you a Legal expert traid though i cant quote the mechanics on getting that.

as for not being acquired you just need to know that the AI wont do that unless your merchant is standing on a resource

[Tamur]

Nice clear post Davey, and some very good info in this thread. I've always had a devil of a time making merchants do anything besides get themselves acquired, and so I just don't build them anymore. Sounds like it's time to give it another go.

[Slicendice]

I usually send a general and some heavy cavalry to Timbuktu. I hire some mercs when I get there and I take that city. I then build a merchant building and a town hall. (town hall prevents your merchant from being crooked) Then I build a fort on the gold and start pumping merchants into that fort. After awhile the income from gold in Timbuktu will surpass all other incomes and it will be very steady.

Also I build lots of priests there and they become my Christian hit squad and they eventually move across North Africa to Egypt then up to Turkey converting as they go.

[Foz]

Just wanted to drop in and leave a few tips about getting your merchants to pop out with higher ability. First off, your merchants roll a random amount of skill between 1 and 3 when they are created, as a base amount. 1 happens half the time, 2 is 1/3 of the time, and 3 is 1/6 of the time overall. Beyond that, their skill can be affected in a few different ways:

1. Shady Dealer - if your settlement does not have at least a town hall in it, the merchant gets Shady Dealer 1 half the time. Of those, 1/3 get an extra 2 points randomly. The first case gives -1 finance, while the latter gives -2 finance. You REALLY want to have a town hall wherever you plan to set up your primary merchant's guild before you recruit any merchants at all, ideally.

2. Legal Dealer - it's the opposite of Shady. With a town hall or better, they get 1 point half the time. If a city hall or better is present, those that get 1 point get a second one 1/3 of the time. The first sort gives +1 finance, while the second gives +2. Again, the importance of the town hall comes into play, though there is also some added incentive to continue and get a city hall as well. That is just a nicety though, and not basically required like a town hall is.

3. Religious Merchant - If a cathedral or better is present, they get 1 point in this 1/2 the time, with an automatic shot at an extra 2 points with 1/3 odds if they get the first. This is bad - we don't want our merchants to have morals. The levels give -1 finance and -2 finance respectively. So... avoid building cathedrals in your primary merchant center.

4. Merchants Guild Trained & Merchants Guild Member - You get these, guaranteed, for having a master guild and a grand master guild respectively. Each grants 1 extra financial point, so your merchants are +2 guaranteed (on top of their random base roll) if you get a gm merchant's guild. There's a guide to building up guild points to get the higher guild levels, but generally you'll get there if you build up trade and crank out some merchants: not too hard.

...and that's all! So to review, what did we learn?

- Build Town Hall ASAP. This is the biggest thing to know, since it otherwise might not be a big early game priority, but affects your recruited merchants by up to 3 financial points. City hall is a further improvement.
- Avoid Cathedrals in merchant-producing cities, they give merchants bad traits!
- Work toward your merchants guild.

Hope that helps!

[Daveybaby]

Quality stuff there Foz - think i might have to go demolish a cathedral.

[Matty]

I know for a fact that it is next to at least Dongola which is right below Cairo and Alexandria

After 6 months of playing the game, I just found Dongola.....

I'm also not conquering the new world this time (as the Moors it seems somehow inappropriate), just sending battalions of guild trained merchants over. I'll also send a ranking diplomat to see if I can negotiate a trade agreement that should boost income.

Even at the late stage in this game (turn 200), the merchants with their 10K plus a turn are often the only thing keeping me solvent in some years.

[sapi]

Quality stuff there Foz - think i might have to go demolish a cathedral.

His holiness won't like you if you do that

[Daveybaby]

His holiness won't like you if you do that

Heh, actually i'm currently playing russia, so in theory he should be greatly pleased!

A bit more info regarding merchant skill levels:


Monopolist Trait
Every turn that your merchant monopolises trade in a region then the value of this trait is increased.

Value 5 to 9 -> Skill +1
Value 10 to 19 -> Skill +2
Value 20 or more -> Skill +3


Aquisition Skills (good merchant trait)
For every successful aquisition your merchant makes, this value goes up by 1

Value 1 -> Skill +1
Value 2 to 3 -> Skill +2
Value 4 to 7 -> Skill +3
Value 8 or more -> Skill +4


Failed Aquisitions (bad merchant trait)
For every unsuccessful aquisition attempt by your merchant, there is a 1/3 chance that the value will go down by 1 (this is tied to the good merchant trait above).

Value -1 to -2 -> Skill -1
Value -3 to -5 -> Skill -2
Value -6 or less -> Skill -3

Dont worry too much about the bad merchant trait - if youve failed enough aquisitions in a row to get a significant value to this trait, chances are your merchant will have been eliminated in the process. In order to get skill -3 your merchant will have had to fail 18 (on average) consecutive attempts, and yet not have been eliminated - pretty unlikely.


Making Enemies
Every time your merchant performs a successful aquisition mission, they have 25% chance of increasing the value of this trait.

Value 1 or 2 -> Personal Security -1
Value 3 to 5 -> Personal Security -2
Value 6 or more -> Personal Security -4

In theory this makes more highly skilled merchants easier to assassinate - in practice this will probably just cancel out some of the effects of the skill level rise itself.


Surviving Aquisitions (secure merchant trait)
Every time your merchant survives an aquisition attempt by another merchant, they have a 50% chance of gaining an increase in the value of this trait.

Value 1 or 2 -> Skill +1
Value 3 or more -> Skill +2


Worldly Merchant Traits
Trading a resource far away from your capital (distance >= 40) has a 20% chance to increase the value for this trait each turn.

Value 1 or 2 -> Skill +1
Value 3 or more -> Skill +2


Self Serving Merchant
If your merchant is very far away from your capital (distance >= 60) then he has a 3% chance every turn of increasing the value of this trait.

Value 1 or 2 -> Skill -1
Value 3 or more -> Skill -2

Moral : dont let your merchants get too far from your capital, unless its really worth it for the money.


Surviving Assassination
Every time a merchant survives assassination, they have a 50% chance of increasing the value of this trait

Value 1 or 2 -> Personal Security +1
Value 3 or more -> Personal Security +2, Finance -1

Note the -1 to finance. If you repeatedly attempt assassinations on enemy merchants they will eventually lose 1 finance. However, i'm not sure it's really worth the effort.


Ancillaries
There are 3 merchant ancillaries, each of while can only be obtained at initial creation of the merchant, and each of which gives +1 to finance skill.

Counterfeiter - 15% chance to obtain this if the settlement where the merchant is trained has an Alchemists Lab

Merchant Clerk - 50% chance to obtain this if the settlement where the merchant is trained has an Alchemy School or greater

Trick Abacus - 5% chance to obtain this if the settlement where the merchant is trained doesnt have at least a Town Hall (note - this trigger occurs twice in v1.1 - so this probably increases the chances to around 10%)


Notes

w.r.t. the Legal Dealer Trait mentioned by Foz above -
this trait seems to be bugged in that it seems to be impossible to get the second level of the trait (trigger adds 1 to make a total of 2, but the threshold is 3)

There is a trait series called 'Exotic Tastes' mentioned in the game textfiles, which gives penalties to finance skill and personal security. However, i havent found any triggers listed for this trait.

[bbeltx]

Merchants are useless to me without any MOD that modify them. If you want make them more useful install the Lands to Conquer (mod).

[phunkbot]

Merchants are useless to me without any MOD that modify them. If you want make them more useful install the Lands to Conquer (mod).

agreed, LtC does make them more than a worthwhile effort, eliminating any need of using a fort exploit along the way...

[gardibolt]

I've been making a ton of money with merchants (between 300-800fl per turn with each of my many merchants), without ever using the fort exploit. My favorite technique is the monopolist one---that boosts them pretty fast so that they can both withstand acquisitions and make acquisitions of their own. But you do have to prep them properly or they're just 500fl out the window.

[HoreTore]

Uhm...in my current turks campaign, I'm making around 17k a turn on my merchants, with v1.2 and no exploits of any kind... I'd say that's worth the trouble, it's about the same I'm making off my 4 most profitable cities, Antioch, Jerusalem, Constantinople and Alexandria.

I've got merchants on the amber in Riga and Vilnius, the iron in Zagreb and Metz, the silk in Constantinople and Baghdad, the Ivory and slaves in Dongola and the gold in Timbuktu and Zagreb. This is without making any acquisitions, and I usually make about 1k every other turn from that.

[Foz]

w.r.t. the Legal Dealer Trait mentioned by Foz above - this trait seems to be bugged in that it seems to be impossible to get the second level of the trait (trigger adds 1 to make a total of 2, but the threshold is 3)

;------------------------------------------
Trait LegalDealer
Characters merchant
AntiTraits ShadyDealer

Level Legal_Nouse
Description Legal_Nouse_desc
EffectsDescription Legal_Nouse_effects_desc
Threshold 1

Effect Finance 1

Level Legal_Expert
Description Legal_Expert_desc
EffectsDescription Legal_Expert_effects_desc
Threshold 2

Effect Finance 2

Evidently it made it into the patch.

BTW, thx for all the good info. I was kinda hoping I had inspired someone to tackle the second half of merchant usage! I see the ever-important town hall is back again, this time for the ancillaries. Can't believe I forgot those!

[Philbert]

I'm playing with the Danes at the moment, and have taken Antioch. Antioch has 4 resources around it that immediately each earn more than 200 florins for 2-pointer merchants (they are trained with 2 points because I have the merchant HQ), so they pay for themselves really rapidly, and start making more money while they skill up.

The thing that is not stressed enough is that the value of resources is very dependent on what faction you play / where your capitol is. If I would be playing the egyptians those same Antioch resources would not make me a fortune, while the furs in scandinavia would yield very good prices.

[Daveybaby]

Doing a quick bit of adding up in my head, it seems that the maximum finance skill a merchant can have, if they max out all positive traits, and get all ancillaries, is 19. Quite a big increase over the limit of 10 which is displayed.

Does anyone know for sure if skill levels above 10 contribute to a merchant's trade income? A 19 finance merchant should make almost double what a 10 finance one does.

@Philbert : yeah, it makes a lot of sense to start pumping out your merchants as far away from your capital as possible, and of course you already have the guild HQ so you no longer need to worry about building up your guild points in one location.

[phunkbot]

heya people,

merchants with 10 stars skill displayed staring to make more or less money(with no changes to the region itself) happens to me all the time so i believe the skills between 10 and 19 work, i'm playing LtC but i dont think that would matter in this case. From what everyone said i cant wait to get 1.2 (and the ltc for it too)

i got a question as well, can anyone tell me if a diplomat standing on top of a resource stops another faction's merchant from landing on that resource and trading it?

cheers