Hotseat Mode

[Didz]

My son is coming again this weekend.

Has anyone tried the Hotseat mode since the 1.2 patch, and if so is it any better than it was. I don't want to suggest another MTW2 campaign only to disappoint him again.

[Lusted]

Well it's certainly different now. Each player must set a password for their faction in the first turn, and then enter it each turn. Probably to stop people playing other peoples turns. Also FOW completely covers all other parts of the map between turns, probably to stop people from cheating again.

Here is the code i used to activate hotseat in 1.2:

[multiplayer]
playable = true
hotseat_turns = true
hotseat_scroll = false
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = 0
hotseat_disable_console = 0
hotseat_disable_papal_elections = 0
hotseat_save_prefs = 0
hotseat_update_ai_camera = 0
hotseat_validate_diplomacy = 1

[Didz]

Well it's certainly different now. Each player must set a password for their faction in the first turn, and then enter it each turn. Probably to stop people playing other peoples turns. Also FOW completely covers all other parts of the map between turns, probably to stop people from cheating again.

Yes, I noticed those changes when I was setting up the seige tests. A bit pointless in my opinion. If you are playing Hotseat then if someone tries to cheat, you're all in the same room, so you just clip them round the ear. You hardly need a password system to protect your turn even if you have popped into the kitchen to make a pot of tea, its not like chess where you might not notice.

Likewise, Fog-Of-War is a bit pointless as if you're all in the same room everyone is going to see everyone elses moves anyway. So, this feature would only be of value if you are also willing to enforce a strict 'get out' policy on all the players not actually completing their turn. I've done that in the past but its not particularly practical if the TV is in the same room as the computer.

Have they sorted out the defensive battles.thats the main thing?

[Lusted]

I think it's aimed more at people who would be playing it via email, and possibly them looking towards doing it over LAN.

Have they sorted out the defensive battles.thats the main thing?

Don't know, i only use it to test mod changes.

[Skott]

The Fog of War I can see having some use but the password idea is just plain dumb IMO.

[Ulstan]

I assume battles between players are auto resolved...what about battles between players and AI?

[Didz]

I think it's aimed more at people who would be playing it via email, and possibly them looking towards doing it over LAN.

In that case it wouldn't be Hotseat, but PBEM.

Hotseat means exactly what it suggests that each player takes it in turns to sit in the 'Hot Seat' and take their turn.

As soon as you involved another computer it either becomes, a LAN, Online or PBEM game and by implication requires some sort of data capture and transfer potential.

[econ21]

As soon as you involved another computer it either becomes, a LAN, Online or PBEM game and by implication requires some sort of data capture and transfer potential.

I'm not getting you there, Didz. The hotseat mode surely can be used for PBEMs? Just e-mail the savegame. Or are you just talking semantics?

I'd expect PBEM to be the major potential use of the hotseat mode. I can't imagine many people having the time to sit around an actual hotseat and play a campaign together. A password system seems a sensible feature for PBEM, given the likely competitive nature of such a campaign.

I agree it would be equally sensible if it could be disabled for literal hotseat games.

[Lusted]

I agree it would be equally sensible if it could be disabled for literal hotseat games.

I just put 1 for all the passwords when im using it to test in 1.2, plus you can stull use the old control faction trick to get it to auto run.

[Didz]

I'm not getting you there, Didz. The hotseat mode surely can be used for PBEMs? Just e-mail the savegame. Or are you just talking semantics?

No, not at all there is a fundemental difference between Hot Seat and PBEM.

A Hot Seat game does not need to provide functionality for the secure saving and transmission of the end of turn data. Nor, does it need to provide a reply function to allow the receiving player to review the information that they are entitled to see before they start their turn. In effect all it needs to do is allow several players to play different factions in turn on the same PC.

Which seems to be all the Hotseat mode in 1.2 is designed to do.

A PBEM system has to be much more sophisticated. First of all, it has to prevent the current player replaying his turn repeatedly until he gets the result that he wants from whatever randomly determined results may occur during his turn.

For example, if the PBEM sysyem allowed it, a less than honest player could repeatedly reload the PBEM file until his Merchant managed to take over an opponents merchant, or an autoresolved battle was resolved in his favour.

Secondly upon loading a PBEM saved game file the receiving player is entitled to see what actions all the other players took which would have been visible to him. So, typically each PBEM saved game file includes a replay of every other players turn.

Thirdly, upon completion of the current players turn the PBEM facility should automatically save the turn information (including the replay detail) to prevent the player tampering with the output and save it ready for immediate transmission to the next player, and some of the more sophisticated PBEM's even automatically post it to the next players registered email address.

Finally, a PBEM system will sometimes report the completion of the current players turn to every other player in the game. So, that they are aware of the progress of the game towards their next turn and more importantly can identify anyone who is dragging their feet.

In addition PBEM saved game files are usually especially encrypted, so that unlike the standard format a player cannot edit their contents before loading them.

The function provided in 1.2 does not appear to contain any of this functionality, except for a password protected start of turn screen which is actually pretty pointless if everyone is in the same room.

I've played a lot of PBEM games and beleive me you need to absolutely such the data transfer is locked down solid.

[Didz]

[multiplayer]
playable = true
hotseat_turns = true
hotseat_scroll = false
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = 0
hotseat_disable_console = 0
hotseat_disable_papal_elections = 0
hotseat_save_prefs = 0
hotseat_update_ai_camera = 0
hotseat_validate_diplomacy = 1

This looks remarkably like the proposal put forward before the 1.2 patch launch in answer to Question # 32 - How do I enable multiplayer hotseat campaign mode?

It proposed editing a copy of the medieval2.preference.cfg file to read

[multiplayer]
playable = 1
hotseat_turns = 0
hotseat_scroll = 0
hotseat_update_ai_camera = 1
hotseat_disable_papal_elections = 0
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = 0
hotseat_save_prefs = 1
hotseat_disable_console = 0
hotseat_validate_diplomacy = 1

In fact assuming that 1 = True and 0=False the only difference is hotseat_turns = true rather than false.

Does this make any significant difference?

PS++++
Ok! I've done some checking and it appears the medieval2.preference.cfg file has changed with the launch of 1.2.

The two files are identical except for the following sections:

The original preference file had the following section:

[multiplayer]
playable = 1
hotseat_turns = 0
hotseat_scroll = 0
hotseat_update_ai_camera = 1
hotseat_disable_papal_elections = 0
hotseat_autoresolve_battles = 0
hotseat_save_prefs = 1
hotseat_disable_console = 0
hotseat_validate_diplomacy = 1

Whilst the new preference file has the following instead:

[hotseat]
autoresolve_battles = 0
disable_console = 0
disable_papal_elections = 0
save_prefs = 1
update_ai_camera = 1
validate_diplomacy = 1

There are also some added lines in the [video] section of the 1.2 file as follows:
ground_buffers_per_node = 4
ground_cover_buffers_per_node = 4
model_buffers_per_node = 4
sprite_buffers_per_node = 4
water_buffers_per_node = 4

No idea what they do but thought I list them anyway.

So, anyway just wondering if this makes any difference.

PPS ++++
I've tried editing the 1.2 preference file to read:

[hotseat]
playable = true
turns = true
scroll = false
autoresolve_battles = 0
disable_console = 0
disable_papal_elections = 0
save_prefs = 0
update_ai_camera = 1
validate_diplomacy = 1

But on entering the game you only get the option to play one faction as per a normal game.

Changing 1 for 'True' & 2 for 'False' makes no difference, so I must assume that this new section is non-functional. My old preference file still works but this is using the old multiplayer preferences to produce a hotseat game.

Finally, tried copying the [Multiplayer] section back into the 1.2 preference file with all the settings suggested by Lusted but it still doesn't produce a multiplayer game. Only one faction is selectable and thats the only function you can play in the game.

So, its seems you need to stick with the pre 1.2 preference file format to invoke Hotseat.

[Lusted]

Well all i did was add the thing i quoted earlier to the bottom of the 1.2 .cfg without editing the existing hotseat section.

[Didz]

Well all i did was add the thing i quoted earlier to the bottom of the 1.2 .cfg without editing the existing hotseat section.

Hmm! I tried that and it didn't work for me. Perhaps it has to be at the end of the file to work, I think I inserted it just above the [HOTSEAT] section.

[Lusted]

Yeah i put it at the end, try it there and it should work.

[Razor1952]

I assume battles between players are auto resolved...what about battles between players and AI?

IN hotseat mode afaik from playing myself one human vs ai opponents.

Defensive battles for human vs ai are autoresolved.

Attacking battles human vs ai can be enabled to be played.(in th cfg file)


Of course hotseat mode is meant to be between at least two humans. In the situation in the above setup human attacking the other human will mean the attacker gets to play while the defensive human is run by the ai.(obviously both humans can't control their own forces at the same time during battle.)

For these reasons maybe hotseat should be all autoresolved for 2 or more humans, I guess its the players choice.


In the situation 1 human vs ai you really have the normal singleplayer game, I was using hotseat like this because it allowed me to start after x turns(I was using 100 turns) had passed automatically and then select the weakest faction to play from that time( I had an interesting time as Scotland which had only Antioch to start with and had to deal with Mongols/Egypt/Timurids , however eventually I abandoned it because of defensive autoresolving)

[Razor1952]

I assume battles between players are auto resolved...what about battles between players and AI?

IN hotseat mode afaik from playing myself one human vs ai opponents.

Defensive battles for human vs ai are autoresolved.

Attacking battles human vs ai can be enabled to be played.(in th cfg file)


Of course hotseat mode is meant to be between at least two humans. In the situation in the above setup human attacking the other human will mean the attacker gets to play while the defensive human is run by the ai.(obviously both humans can't control their own forces at the same time during battle.)

For these reasons maybe hotseat should be all autoresolved for 2 or more humans, I guess its the players choice.


In the situation 1 human vs ai you really have the normal singleplayer game, I was using hotseat like this because it allowed me to start after x turns(I was using 100 turns) had passed automatically and then select the weakest faction to play from that time( I had an interesting time as Scotland which had only Antioch to start with and had to deal with Mongols/Egypt/Timurids , however eventually I abandoned it because of defensive autoresolving).

BTW passwords , there is no need to enter any passwords just enter at that screen

[Razor1952]

I assume battles between players are auto resolved...what about battles between players and AI?

IN hotseat mode afaik from playing myself one human vs ai opponents.

Defensive battles for human vs ai are autoresolved.

Attacking battles human vs ai can be enabled to be played.(in th cfg file)


Of course hotseat mode is meant to be between at least two humans. In the situation in the above setup human attacking the other human will mean the attacker gets to play while the defensive human is run by the ai.(obviously both humans can't control their own forces at the same time during battle.)

For these reasons maybe hotseat should be all autoresolved for 2 or more humans, I guess its the players choice.


In the situation 1 human vs ai you really have the normal singleplayer game, I was using hotseat like this because it allowed me to start after x turns(I was using 100 turns) had passed automatically and then select the weakest faction to play from that time( I had an interesting time as Scotland which had only Antioch to start with and had to deal with Mongols/Egypt/Timurids , however eventually I abandoned it because of defensive autoresolving).

BTW passwords , there is no need to enter any passwords just enter at that screen

[Razor1952]

I assume battles between players are auto resolved...what about battles between players and AI?

IN hotseat mode afaik from playing myself one human vs ai opponents.

Defensive battles for human vs ai are autoresolved.

Attacking battles human vs ai can be enabled to be played.(in th cfg file)


Of course hotseat mode is meant to be between at least two humans. In the situation in the above setup human attacking the other human will mean the attacker gets to play while the defensive human is run by the ai.(obviously both humans can't control their own forces at the same time during battle.)

For these reasons maybe hotseat should be all autoresolved for 2 or more humans, I guess its the players choice.


In the situation 1 human vs ai you really have the normal singleplayer game, I was using hotseat like this because it allowed me to start after x turns(I was using 100 turns) had passed automatically and then select the weakest faction to play from that time( I had an interesting time as Scotland which had only Antioch to start with and had to deal with Mongols/Egypt/Timurids , however eventually I abandoned it because of defensive autoresolving).

BTW passwords , there is no need to enter any passwords just enter at that screen

[Razor1952]

I assume battles between players are auto resolved...what about battles between players and AI?

IN hotseat mode afaik from playing myself one human vs ai opponents.

Defensive battles for human vs ai are autoresolved.

Attacking battles human vs ai can be enabled to be played.(in th cfg file)


Of course hotseat mode is meant to be between at least two humans. In the situation in the above setup human attacking the other human will mean the attacker gets to play while the defensive human is run by the ai.(obviously both humans can't control their own forces at the same time during battle.)

For these reasons maybe hotseat should be all autoresolved for 2 or more humans, I guess its the players choice.


In the situation 1 human vs ai you really have the normal singleplayer game, I was using hotseat like this because it allowed me to start after x turns(I was using 100 turns) had passed automatically and then select the weakest faction to play from that time( I had an interesting time as Scotland which had only Antioch to start with and had to deal with Mongols/Egypt/Timurids , however eventually I abandoned it because of defensive autoresolving).

BTW passwords , there is no need to enter any passwords just enter at that screen

[Razor1952]

Sorry about the repeats, network error please delete.

[Didz]

Defensive battles for human vs ai are autoresolved.

That's how it worked before the patch too.

A bit dissappointing...I had hoped that there would have been some improvement as a result of the patch but it appears the only difference in the start of turn screen.

Obviously, it would not be possible for two players to play battles against eac other in Hotseat mode but I had hoped it would have allowed all battles against the AI to be played.

Anyway, the net result is that my son and I won't be playing MTW2 this weekend, or at least not together.

[gibsonsg91921]

BUMPtizzle

what if u change
[hotseat]
autoresolve_battles = 1
disable_console = 1
disable_papal_elections = 1
save_prefs = 1
update_ai_camera = 0
validate_diplomacy = 1

to read

[hotseat]
autoresolve_battles = 0
disable_console = 1
disable_papal_elections = 0
save_prefs = 1
update_ai_camera = 0
validate_diplomacy = 1

so i theory you can fight battles realtime and have papal elections? does that make a significant difference?

[alex9337]

Gotta say, though, that I love this hot seat mode. It's the closest thing you can get to a true LAN multiplayer on the strategic map, so I'll take it!

I am playing as the Scots and my son is playing as the Spanish and right now we are allied together. He has crushed the Portuguese and is wiping out the Moors, as well as pushing into Toulouse and I have destroyed the English, control all the British Isles and am now punishing the French in Angers, Rennes, Paris, etc.

We have agreed to stay allied together and try not to get in each others' way, and so the race is on to see who will accomplish the victory condition first, helping each other out as best as possible, where we can, hence the dual push against the French at the moment.

A lot of fun, let me tell you!

[PutCashIn]

Alex my friend, when you defend against an AI opponent, can you defend as per a normal defense battle?

Or does the AI still control your moves, simply letting you 'watch' the battle.

In 1.1, You could attack as per normal, human vs human was auto'ed and defense was a 'watch' only event.

Didz is asking, has this changed at all in 1.2?

[Didz]

I tested it and as far as I could see it hadn't changed at all from 1.1.

If you have somehow made it work I'd be interested to know what you did,

[Magraev]

I also believe that there is no way to play defensive battles yourself.

Those are my favorite kind of battles, so really a major bummer!

No changes made to the cfg-file has made it possible for me, but if someone has the solution I'd love to hear it!

[alex9337]

Sorry to take so long to reply, I have been away from computers for the last couple of days.

Unfortunately, I can only defer to Didz, as I do not know the answer to your question at this time. My son and I agreed that we would auto calc all battles, so we haven't even tried to actually "go into" the RTS. Heck, I didn't even think I could.

Again, sorry for the delay.

Alex

[rorarii]

All this talk is quite sad .. and very dated, i remember having similar discussions 10 years ago regarding older wargames.

CA really needs to get it's act together and produce a realtime, online strategic version of TW ... and soon!


R

[Didz]

CA really needs to get it's act together and produce a realtime, online strategic version of TW ... and soon!

I hope not.

What I've been waiting for is a Hotseat Mode that works and a PBEM version of the campaign with battles playable using the online battle engine as an option only.

A realtime, online campaign would be a distaster as far as I'm concerned as it would be completely unplayable. But of course I have no problem with it as an option for those with no lives and commode in their computer room.

[rorarii]

I hope not.

What I've been waiting for is a Hotseat Mode that works and a PBEM version of the campaign with battles playable using the online battle engine as an option only.

A realtime, online campaign would be a distaster as far as I'm concerned as it would be completely unplayable. But of course I have no problem with it as an option for those with no lives and commode in their computer room.

Didz, you're clueless ... and lack imagination .. in fact you sound like one of these turned-based games are better than real time dinosaurs. If you think PBEM is the future then you'll be amazed at what will happen! Whether CA is part of that future is still to be determined.


R