Owned by uber levy slingers?

[Intranetusa]

I had a half stack ~1000 Polybian era soldiers composed of double chevron veteran hastatis + celtic spearmen, vs ~1400 "levy slingers" + several celtic slinger + celtic spearmen.

Now normally, I would have no trouble dealing with slingers and their uber AP ability due to their low attack (usually 1-2). However, these slingers were veterans, and had accumulated 4-5 chevrons. So I was facing slingers with 6-7 attack + AP...

Long story short, I got pwned when their slingers wrecked by guys by firing/running away, etc


Since most of the slingers of the era was better than archers, maybe the slingers could merely have a higher attack value than most archers, without the AP trait? :/

[TWFanatic]

This has been addressed countless times. EB has lowered the attack in 1.0 of most slingers, but the ap is there to stay. Thankfully the AI doesn't spam them, but yes they are arguably overpowered.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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You know, there's something called light cavalry...
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[pezhetairoi]

Yer. They break easily if you concentrate three or four light cav on a clump of slingers at a go from multiple directions. Or just charge frontally, then force your way through to cut them in half. Also works. No army should be without cavalry, precisely because of this reason.

[Intranetusa]

Yer. They break easily if you concentrate three or four light cav on a clump of slingers at a go from multiple directions. Or just charge frontally, then force your way through to cut them in half. Also works. No army should be without cavalry, precisely because of this reason.

Well, I'm trying to role-play as Roman, so I'm basically going pure infantry with minimal cavalry besides general and occasionally maybe 1 or 2 equites.

[pezhetairoi]

...but that's enough! I never dispose of more than 4 cavalry units per fullstack legion, and sometimes less. It's already enough. The Romans never went pure infantry, they always had a decent number of cavalry. It was only in quality that they were lacking. So if you really want to roleplay, bring cavalry anyway, 3-4 units of them, just make sure they aren't equites but local equivalents like Liguriae or Campanici... With two cavalry units and coupla light infantry units like rorarii in support you could already wipe out all those fellas. Use the cavalry to get behind the slingers or pin them down, then charge in with your infantry. Since the enemy is mostly slingers, you could actually devote most of your infantry to hunting down the iaosatae. Just use the equites to charge and halt a slinger unit long enough for infantry to catch up and take over, then move on to another unit. At the same time, with a bunch of cavalry barrelling around in the enemy's rear areas, the iaosatae wouldn't even be able to fire! Even if you can't catch the slingers with infantry or cavalry, devote enough to chasing them and not allowing them to stand still and they won't even be able to get a bullet at you. Your main mistake was to allow them the leisure to fire at you. Even chasing them ineffectually to the ends of the map is superior to letting them stand still.

[Intranetusa]

.......

See, but the problem is the slingers never fully retreat. When they fall back, they fall back into the thick lines of their spearmen, making any cavalry attack ill advised.

[Geoffrey S]

Well, I'm trying to role-play as Roman, so I'm basically going pure infantry with minimal cavalry besides general and occasionally maybe 1 or 2 equites.

In which case, you're going to lose. Roleplaying doesn't mean being completely inflexible.

[pezhetairoi]

@intranetusa

Sure they fall back into their spearmen, but then immediately behind comes my infantry who then proceed to smash into the spearmen without hurling pila. Since it takes skirmishers devilishly long to filter through their own MLR, almost all the time I catch them mid-filter, and they either attempt to disengage to the rear losing quite a big chunk of men only to be unable to fire since theirs and mine are now all tangled up in combat all down the line, or they end up being drawn into the fight as melee infantry, which they are ill suited for, chevron or no chevron. After which is a textbook application of ambush/outflanking with whatever cavalry you have. Slingers in the front of the MLR are no big problem. It's those on the flanks (which rarely happens, for some reason, they are always behind the MLR which means the same thing w.r.t. friendly fire) that cause more trouble, and even those rarely last long under my alae-and-cavalry combined ops. Amazing how well Samnitici Milites/Pedites can take out slingers, even one unit against three, especially the enemy is also being distracted by cavalry milling on their flanks.

For those who don't know, by the way, MLR is Main Line of Resistance. I wonder who coined that term.

[TWFanatic]

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You know, there's something called light cavalry...
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I use light cavalry to hold them and heavy cavalry to sweep them away.

Personally, I don't find them a problem when the AI uses them, I find them supply overpowered for me. They are incredibly lethal for me, and experience is gained fast. Plus, the AI is too stupid too counter them.

[Kολοσσός]

I have annihilated an opposing army with slingers alone but I had an elevation advantage. My mounted general was well forward, ahead of my formation and at the base of the mountain. AI, given the choice of climbing up hill to meet my main force or focusing on the general may choose option two. So they followed my general around the field of battle exposing flanks to missile fire. I made sure my general kept his distance, his job was that of bait. I think the enemy suffered something like 700 casualties due to slings alone. On the other hand, if heavily armored infantry closes in from 12 o'clock on level ground the stone throwers may as well pelt them with ping-pong balls. That's why they should be in the skirmish mode because that will make them adjust the formation constantly. If the enemy goes for the center the center slingers will retreat but the flank slingers will stand their ground hitting the enemy from the flanks.