Sweboz EB 1.0 comments

[sdk80]

Just began a Sweboz campaign and noticed that this faction doesn't seem to be that much completed. Probably you guys already know most of the stuff, that I will tell you now, but nevertheless I think constructive critic is always usefull. (sorry, but I'll probably misspell the in game region, town or unit names, but I really hope that you will know what I mean)


1. the music theme of the Sweboz-campaign doesn't fit at all to the Sweboz or ancient Germans (some elements within the theme do, f.e. horns or drums, but the main theme is made up by a Didgeridoo - at least it very much sounds like this) I think Australian Aborigines have nothing to do with ancient Germans, it would be the same if you guys made American native music the main theme of the EB-Rome campaign! I found it so much disturbing, that I had to turn off the music. A theme which was more inspired by f.e. modern "Viking metal" (not exactly like Viking metal, no E-guitars and modern adaptions, but should have f.e. deep male voices, battle-screams, drums, horns, lurs, a mix between a glorifying and sad musical undertone ...), would really fit!

2. the Sweboz large trading port upgrade (don't know the exact name..) uses the image of the eastern faction ports, instead of using the Celtic one, which should be used.

3. there is only one place available to build ships, which is Scandinavia.It's unhistoric and unjustified, because in ancient times German coast-tribes already sailed around in the North Sea and Baltic Sea and they even did acts of piracy and used their ships to settle new lands. (How do you guys think, that Germans were able to settle Frisian islands and Heligoland in the North Sea without ships? The Frisians were one of the oldest known tribes: they were first mentioned by Pytheas of Massilia 325 B.C.) SO at least Gáwjám~Habukoz really needs to be a another place of Germanic homeland with the ability to build ships. (I even would include the modern Danish peninsula, Gáwjám~Kimbroz in game I think)

4. the Sweboz victory conditions need to include Gáwjám~Gotanoz (the small island Gotland south of Scandinavia), because it's also Sweboz homeland in game, but doesn't have to be conquered or even raided, unlike all the other Sweboz homeland territories in game, which is strange.

I also have some comments about a special unit, but I don't have time for this now, so I will complete this post the next days.

Ok, that's it for now from my side. I really hope, that you take my comments for serious and aren't offended in any way. Still I very much admire the work of EB.

so long

[Strategos Alexandros]

1. The Sweboz music was made using ancient celtic instruments.

2. Not all factions have completed building pictures.

3. This was probably the only place with sufficent harbours for fleets of ships rather than just raiding parties.

4. I don't know, I'm not a team member.

[sdk80]

1. The Sweboz music was made using ancient celtic instruments.

3. This was probably the only place with sufficent harbours for fleets of ships rather than just raiding parties.

3. why do you think that there were military fleets available in antic Scandinavia and not on the North-Sea coast? Scandinavia was famous for its navy in Viking times, but not in the ancient world and in fact England was conquered by ships setting sail from the Dutch, German, and Danish North-Sea coast, so there must have been some ship building knowledge in this area long before, while Scandinavia became famous for its ships very much later. I know nothing of a scandinavian invasion by sea in the antiquity, while the Anglo-Saxon example of the late antiquity speaks for itself. By the way, the Romas called the North Sea Mare Germanicum and not Mare Gallicum; this name wouldn't have been justified at all without a recognizebale navy force in that area, right? It's absurd to think that those primitve German ships came down all the way from Scandinavia into the North Sea instead of the much nearer Dutch, German, Danish North-Sea coastline with it's many islands and natural bays.

To the 1st:

That is not a digeridoo but an ancient celtic instrument (like Alexandros said), that resembles a horn. More information about the barbarian music themes, especially the awesome "Prehistoric Music Ireland" can be found here.

I my self think the music is Awesome and way more fitting than "viking metal". I mean, why to take inspiration from something that takes the inspiration from the very thing you are trying to depict.

About the 4th:

The Gawjam Gotanoz was a VC for Sweboz in 0.80 (or 0.7.4, not sure actually) and it was also needed for the "uniter of tribes" quest/trait. Pure speculation: Maybe it was axed as a VC purely from gameplay reason's as Gotaland is an island and Sweboz can get fleets only in scandinavia and that makes conquering Gotaland irritating.

1. didn't know that an antic celtic instrument sounds that much like a Didgeridoo. seems to be crazy but true. Viking Metal was just an example (perhaps a bad one) nothing else. But still the Sweboz music theme is disturbing and I can't believe that people of that time actualy listened to that kind of monotonous music. There is probably no evidence at all of how antic music of the so called "Barbarians" sounded like and I really find it hard to believe that it sounded like in EB. (Don't take this as offense) More variation and a melody can't be wrong I think: I mean war drums and pipes were pretty easy to play and had great effect on morale, but for sure they used more variation and melody.

4. so fix the problem with the Sweboz military ports - make another one available and there is no prob with Gotland as a winning condition

1: Music is devided up by culture, since RTW has so few culture slots, all of Europe's peoples have to be thrown in the 'barbarian' culture slot. Due to this, they have to share the same music...

3: Ships in EB represent military fleets, not commercial ships or raiding ships. Though, I think there was talk of adding a military port to another Germania town, but I don't think that ever got implemented.

4: It may have something to do with the fact nobody from the mainland ever invaded the island, but the other way around.

1. didn't know that I have to hear the same music when playing Celts. Like I said, this is my first EB campaign and I started with Sweboz. I hope u guys modify the music, not only because I really can't bear to listen to it, while playing several hours, but for some of the reasons above.

3. see my answer above to strategos alexandros

4. that's not true. Gotland was conquered by the Swedish (Svear) in the early middle age.

[CaesarAugustus]

Any examples of "Viking Metal"?

[Alexander the Adequate]

I'm not horribly knowledgeable, but about the music, even if you find it satanic and untolerable, i don't think that the additions you suggested (pipes, drums) have any evidence to go on, which i think would be blasphemous in EB. The Celtic air instrument used now, however, we know that they used for sure (or the Celts used anyway). So i think until evidence comes up that pipes and drums were a common element in european music, they would not put them in. (However, i am not a team member and this could all be bollocks.)

[unreal_uk]

First glaring fact to add - Sweboz is not 'Germans' as RTW had it! They don't represent all the Germanic tribes under one banner!

[paullus]

A theme which was more inspired by f.e. modern "Viking metal"

uh-huh.

[Puupertti Ruma]

To the 1st:

That is not a digeridoo but an ancient celtic instrument (like Alexandros said), that resembles a horn. More information about the barbarian music themes, especially the awesome "Prehistoric Music Ireland" can be found here.

I my self think the music is Awesome and way more fitting than "viking metal". I mean, why to take inspiration from something that takes the inspiration from the very thing you are trying to depict.

About the 4th:

The Gawjam Gotanoz was a VC for Sweboz in 0.80 (or 0.7.4, not sure actually) and it was also needed for the "uniter of tribes" quest/trait. Pure speculation: Maybe it was axed as a VC purely from gameplay reason's as Gotaland is an island and Sweboz can get fleets only in scandinavia and that makes conquering Gotaland irritating.

[Cadwalader]

Here in Norway, I know "lurs" were used in battle. Lots of them have been found in Denmark, dating back to the bronze age, so I'm sure the Sweboz could've used them. Wikipedia has a nice page on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lur

I believe I have heard or read that it was used even into the age of gunpowder. I know a legend about an invasion attempt by Sweden, using Scottish mercenaries, were repelled because a woman saw them, and blew the lur. The men heard it, and came to stone the bastards.

[Jaywalker-Jack]

That is not a digeridoo but an ancient celtic instrument (like Alexandros said), that resembles a horn.

Sorry to nitpick but those intruments were from pre-Celtic Ireland, its a mistake to say they are "celtic".

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

1: Music is devided up by culture, since RTW has so few culture slots, all of Europe's peoples have to be thrown in the 'barbarian' culture slot. Due to this, they have to share the same music...

2: Probably should be fixed...

3: Ships in EB represent military fleets, not commercial ships or raiding ships. Though, I think there was talk of adding a military port to another Germania town, but I don't think that ever got implemented.

4: It may have something to do with the fact nobody from the mainland ever invaded the island, but the other way around.

[Tellos Athenaios]

4. the Sweboz victory conditions need to include Gáwjám~Gotanoz (the small island Gotland south of Scandinavia), because it's also Sweboz homeland in game, but doesn't have to be conquered or even raided, unlike all the other Sweboz homeland territories in game, which is strange.

As for 4) that's got something to do with preventing the Vanilla VC's from being triggered IIRC. Gawjam~Gotanoz, is in fact, nothing less than capital of Vanilla Latium! (Roma is located in the internal province of Latium2. )

[pezhetairoi]

The music sounded incredibly barbaric the first time I heard it, and I actually modded it out of the descr_sounds. But after a week or two I put it back in and it was much more palatable. For some people it's an acquired taste. Take five, give it time, and see what happens then.