Roman: Brutii [Archive]

Doug-Thompson

09-28-2004, 20:58

The Brutii Blitz

Your goal is to conquer Greece. Therefore, your enemies are the Greek cities and Macedon.

Take everything that isn't nailed down or can be pryed loose and attack Apollonia immediately. This definitely includes your spy, your diplomat and your very best general. The rebel town is just across the straits and the Senate should give you the town as a mission objective anyway.

You will have to leave some garrison troops in Italy, of course, but keep it to a minimum. None of the other Roman factions want to start a civil war yet.

Take the Greek city of Thermon just south and east of Apollonia. When you can, take troops and build a fort at the mountain pass just north and east of Apollonia. The correct fort site will be one-turn's march for a town guard unit. Once it's built, a couple of town guards will be enough to convince the Macedonians not to break through -- if you keep them busy elsewhere.

At some point early in the game, the Senate will give you a mission to take a Carthaginian town in Sicily. Take the mission and capture the town with new troops recruited in Italy, but then massacre the inhabitants and destroy every building you can. Then put your troops back on the boats and sail them back to the real war in Greece.

I don't recommend barbarity as a rule, but this is a case of necessity. The last thing you want to do this early in the game is tie down a large garrison in a town that's in the Scipii zone of control and is just going to get you into a running fight with the Carthiginians and their navy. Do the job and get out. Furthermore, the complete looting of the town will make you very rich in early game terms. This is a very important factor. It gives you a big head start and is almost necessary to successfully fight the relatively powerful Greeks and Macedonians.

Now that the "Sicilian expedition" is over and the troops are in Greece, drive on the Macedonian town of Larissa. You have now split the Macedonians into Athens and Corinth in the south and Thessalonica in the north. Keep attacking the Macedonian armies, beating them in detail and inflicting losses while rebuilding your units every turn in Larissa.

In army jargon, you are using "interior lines" to inflict a "favorable rate of attrition" on the Macedonians by beating their little armies with your one big, army led by your best general. Also, keep pouring garrison troops out of little Apollonia. You'll need them.

When the Macedonians are weak enough, take Corinth and Athens from them. Taking Corinth will give you the Zeus wonder in Greece and some nice prestige.

Beware the Greeks who are left in Sparta. Pound them down with attrition tactics, rebuilding in Corinth and preventing revolts in Corinth and Athens with all those garrison troops from Apollonia. Take Sparta.

Now you're ready for the endgame in Greece. Force the Macedonians out of the north end of the Larissa valley. You may want to build a fort at the north end to hem the Macedonians in Thessalonica before your final push. When you're ready, take Thessalonica and then the town north of there. Any Macedonians who are left will be some fragment at an overseas colony somewhere.

Congratulations; Greece is rich, populous and the source of endless wealth and good troops. Build highways and a navy, and everything else. Build lots of "happy buildings" too. Collesiums give you the option of yearly, monthly or daily games. Frequent games are very expensive but can save you from a revolt. Don't stop attacking, though. There are still more rich provinces to be had.

I like to finish wars that I start, so I always go for the Greek provinces just across the Aegean Sea on the west coast of Asia Minor. There are no less than three wonders there (including the one at Rhodes). Capturing them will greatly enhance your prestige.

Once again, be sure to take a diplomat. Bribery is very helpful. Captains in particular are cheap to bribe. The Greeks are on their last legs by now, allowing you to pick up some family members with their small remnant armies that are cheap to bribe.

Where you go from there is up to you.

Lonewarrior

09-29-2004, 00:25

hmmm yes its all so clear now ~:cheers: :2thumbsup:

Doug-Thompson

09-29-2004, 02:58

Thanks, Lonewarrior.

Kaiser of Arabia

10-03-2004, 18:03

DONT OVEREXTEND YOURSELF BECAUSE OF THE SENATE
I made that mistake (attack Carthage blah blah blah) and I went from a 30000 tresury to the negatives.

Tzar Kaloyan

10-03-2004, 19:56

There is an alternative path on Lilybaeum. This is what I did:

1) When the Senate gives you the mission, act quickly -- otherwise Scipii will get there first.

2) Take the city -- fairly easy battle if you brought your Greek army (which is what I did).

3) Enslave the population -- gives you ~2,200 people to distribute to your 3 other settlements as well as ~400 dinarii. This is MUCH better than killing the population over the long term -- i.e. the added people will help your cities reach the next level faster and your tax income will be larger EVERY turn from now on.

4) Sell ALL the sellable building in Lilybaeum and abandon the city. This gave me another ~900 dinarii.

5) When (and if) the Senate gives you the mission to blokade Carthage, go do that (defeat the closest two fleets, but stay away from their large fleet to the west -- it is 3.5 times larger than yours!)

6) On the way back, stop at Lilybaeum and repeat steps 2-4. This gave me another ~1,100 people and ~900 dinarii, plus I achieved a Heroic victory against the storms of peasants (very cool for your general and unit experience).

Overall, the little Sicilian adventure was a nice and very profitable diversion!

Playing on vhard/vhard.

Doug-Thompson

10-03-2004, 23:49

Tzar Kaloyan

10-04-2004, 04:01

I agree -- strategy should be specific to one's particular position. In my case, I saw that had I killed the population, I would have earned ~3,600 dinarii. Enslaving and selling brought in ~1,300 immediately, but the additional ~2,200 people increased my income ~500 a turn. The long-term benefits are that both my Italian cities crossed the 6k population mark many turns before they otherwise would have, thus giving me a tremendous head-start.

The fact that next turn after my conquest and abandonment the Senate gave me the port blockade of Carthage as a mission and I got to re-conquer Lilybaeum was just a gravy ~;)

Here are a few things I learned from continuing to play this campaign (and having tremendous fun doing it, btw):

1) When you seige, don't use ladders if there is an enemy unit on the wall. The Greeks did that against me and lost 120 men (armoured hoplites, I believe) climbing on two ladders. My losses ... whopping 5 men (hastatis)!

2) War dogs are great units to flank with, as well as to pursue rioters. Just keep them away from heavy cavalry and make sure they don't get Winded -- if they do, they will become uncontrollable and will start attacking all enemy units around them.

3) Don't fight the Greeks with Town Watch, unless you have the numerical superiority. Sure, if you can flank their Hoplites with 3 of your town watch spearmen, then you are safe. Anything less and the hoplites will tear them apart.

4) When you attack a large city with stone walls, don't hang around the gate too long! Ask the Greeks who charged Corinth. My understrength unit of Hoplites of 34 men, parked right after the gate stopped the Greeks at the gate and held them enough time for the towers to do extensive damage (and the oil too ~:) ) It was pretty sad. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.

5) When you take Corinth, be prepared to go to war against all of Greece. Forget about 'supremacy in the sea' -- at least with me, the Greeks mopped my 14-ship navy pretty quickly with stacks of 20-ship navies. It was a payback for their losses on land ~:)

Doug-Thompson

10-04-2004, 16:12

I agree -- strategy should be specific to one's particular position. In my case, I saw that had I killed the population, I would have earned ~3,600 dinarii. Enslaving and selling brought in ~1,300 immediately, but the additional ~2,200 people increased my income ~500 a turn. The long-term benefits are that both my Italian cities crossed the 6k population mark many turns before they otherwise would have, thus giving me a tremendous head-start.

Hmmm. The numbers do appear to be on your side.

The fact that next turn after my conquest and abandonment the Senate gave me the port blockade of Carthage as a mission and I got to re-conquer Lilybaeum was just a gravy ~;)

I'd rather be lucky than good, but I prefer being good and lucky.

... War dogs are great units to flank with, as well as to pursue rioters. Just keep them away from heavy cavalry and make sure they don't get Winded -- if they do, they will become uncontrollable and will start attacking all enemy units around them.

Unless I am mistaken, war dogs main purpose in real life was to pursue routers.

========

The other good tactics you describe are helpful in making the conquest of Greece more effective and less costly. Now, on to the very pleasant topic of what to do with Greece once you have it. ~:)

First off, use the Brutii faction's "Temple of Mars" boosts, of course.

Second, I've found that the combination of colesseums for loyalty, taxes for population control and money, peasants for use as settlers and upgraded shipyards for trade and movement to be a very potent one.

You can march across Asia Minor, wiping out the poplations, and use peasant units from Greece to garrison them. Disband the peasants and -- poof -- instant new citizens.

Squalor in the Greek cities is reduced. Population in the growing East booms, added to by your loyal transplanted peasants. Naval superiority and rich trade is assured by your multiple Greek shipyards.

Wait for the Reform of Marius, and then kick everybody's rear.

I didn't go to war with Thrace after conquering Macedonian. I'm pretty sure by now that was a mistake. I'd have an almost-complete land bridge to Asia Minor for my settlers if I had Byzantium.

The Brutii have a huge head start in their ability to conquer all of civilized Greece before the other Roman factions get a chance.

Tzar Kaloyan

10-04-2004, 17:46

DT: "Unless I am mistaken, war dogs main purpose in real life was to pursue routers."

I am not sure about the historical usage of dogs. After some more experience with them, though, I see that I have used the war dogs unit incorrectly so far! What I see on the map are a bunch of dogs running for the enemy and getting slaughtered. To save them, I was being forced to rush my entire army into a rapid attack, thus incurring extra casulties. Thus, I felt incredibly stupid when I finally realized what is going on! Turns out that the war dogs unit is made of handlers and dogs. The dogs themselves are expandable -- i.e. think of them as the limited number of arrows or javelins that the missile troops have. As long as the handlers survive, they will get more dogs for the next battle. My error was that when I see the dogs running around, I start trying to control the unit, thus getting the handlers in trouble -- i.e. killed ~:confused: And since the war dog unit costs a very high 680 dinarii, you can imagine my unhappiness ... I wish there was a good explanation somewhere of the war dogs unit.

I like your description of the peasant strategy! Wil have to try it -- the Greek cities are very hard to control and tie up large garissons to keep the peace.

TinCow

10-04-2004, 18:40

I wish there was a good explanation somewhere of the war dogs unit.

Use the wardogs as a one-shot attack. Hold them behind your main infantry line and then send them in just before the initial clash. After your handlers have released the dogs, pull the handlers back and keep them safe, do not use them to attack anything. The dogs will keep killing and attacking until the battle is over or they are all dead. You cannot control them once they are released, but they'll go after anything they see.

I always try to have 2 wardog units in my main armies. They are extremely useful in breaking up enemy lines when combined with a pilum volley. They also prevent many casualties to your men from the initial clash of arms and can be very useful at disposing of routing enemies.

Doug-Thompson

10-04-2004, 20:00

I like your description of the peasant strategy! Wil have to try it -- the Greek cities are very hard to control and tie up large garissons to keep the peace.

It's the cure. It's especially effective on large unit size and, presumably, even better on huge.

Any unit will reduce population, but peasants reduce population by 120 for $100 dinarii in initial cost and $100d for upkeep. That makes peasants dirt chip for moving population around.

I like to use Sparta as the gathering place for "settler" going overseas. Although a land bridge would be nice, Sparta is much harder to blockade that Athens. Thessolonica is even easier to blockade.

By the way, did I mention that the fact that NEUTRAL ships block your path really chafes me?

Trouble is, Sparta takes two turns to get all the way across to Asia Minor and unload. It's safe, though. The fleets can sail along the coast of Crete.

I'll have to see if Larissa is better placed. If it can make the trip in one jump and isn't easily blockaded, that may be the best choice.

Inuyasha12

10-04-2004, 22:56

First off, use the Brutii faction's "Temple of Mars" boosts, of course.

~:confused:

Tzar Kaloyan

10-05-2004, 01:56

Thanks Tim, excellent explanation on using war dogs!

Doug-Thompson

10-05-2004, 01:59

~:confused:

WARNING!: If you are not a Brutii fan, you're about to be depressed.

You have been warned.

Temple of Mars: +1 Valor to all units produced in that town. This includes peasants and, I believe, ships.

Large Temple of Mars: +2 Valor

Awesome Temple of Mars: +3 Valor.

Greek cities are the greatest center of population and wealth on the map with the possible exception of Egypt and the rest in that corner. Therefore, you have the money and city-size to build awesome temples, and have a bunch of them in one compact mass that happens to be one very short boat trip from Italy.

My search for a favorite Roman faction was, well, rather short.

(Note: Edited and corrected. Temple is needed, no shrine.)

The_Emperor

10-05-2004, 10:58

Now thats a pretty nifty temple bonus! I think i'll play them next, (after I conquer with the Greeks first) ~;)

Lonewarrior

10-05-2004, 22:39

Which way should I go, west into spanish territorry or up north?

Doug-Thompson

10-05-2004, 23:24

After taking Greece? East. Get ready for the war with Egypt.

Lonewarrior

10-06-2004, 19:03

Yes I was planing on doing that

Doug-Thompson

10-06-2004, 19:59

If the reforms of Marius haven't kicked in yet, you may want to wait for that before killing the Egyptians.

Most important, though, build up the navy. Egypt has very rich trade but only a few ports. Blockade them and the Egyptians are in trouble.

Lonewarrior

10-06-2004, 20:41

Yes thanks Doug :bow:

vodkafire

10-07-2004, 11:18

Also, temple of Juno halves culture penalty! Too bad the Brutii doesn't have a good naval temple, like Neptune, but I guess Mars makes up for it. The Julii seem to have the weakest temples, especially since bacchus causes drinking traits in your governors...

Doug-Thompson

10-07-2004, 18:10

Also, temple of Juno halves culture penalty!

Wow. I overlooked that one.

Better and better.

Lonewarrior

10-07-2004, 19:10

Man my income keeps going down??? even after I have build great roads for trade.

Doug-Thompson

10-07-2004, 19:44

Man my income keeps going down??? even after I have build great roads for trade.

I ran into a money crunch before a successful war with Egypt. Now, no problem.

Egypt is the promised land. Loot and then rich trade galore.

Also, the Hanging Gardens wonder in Babylon increases farm income in all provinces by about 20 percent, I think. That was very useful.

Inuyasha12

10-08-2004, 02:19

I think i can now safely say the brutii are my favorite roman faction.
Great temple bonuses, access to the rich greek lands and later egypt. A very comfortable position to launch attacks europe and the balkans too!!

Go brutti ~:cheers:

P.S. Is there a guide somewhere to all the temple bonuses. :book:

Sinner

10-08-2004, 11:23

P.S. Is there a guide somewhere to all the temple bonuses. :book:

Funny you should mention that, but I'm halfway through writing one... aiming to finish it in the next day or two.

Lonewarrior

10-09-2004, 16:31

I ran into a money crunch before a successful war with Egypt. Now, no problem.

Egypt is the promised land. Loot and then rich trade galore.

Also, the Hanging Gardens wonder in Babylon increases farm income in all provinces by about 20 percent, I think. That was very useful.

Thanks Doug

AssasinsShadow

10-09-2004, 18:12

Brutii do have a great start position. I have over 400k and I'm not even to Egypt yet (In fact, I'm still dealing with the annoying Pontuns(sp?)). Would have taken over faster, but after aquiring half of Turkey and finally eliminating the Macedonians, the Senate attacked me. So I took Capua from the Scipii and called it a day.

Tzar Kaloyan

10-09-2004, 22:07

The Egyptians are tough. I made a strategic error to not take the Greeks out early. Instead, I went to Africa, took the two rebel towns there and got myself attacked by Egypt. Had to ask for peace for 5 turns before I could bring in a decent size army for a show-down. Fun and hard battles followed -- the Egyptians have so much cavalry! And those chariots seem to plow right through my legions ... I finally prevailed and repulsed their attack, but taking them down will be hard -- those buggers are very rich.

One easy front has been the north for me. I sent an 8-star general that way with a decent army. Then I used the following strategy:

1) Take a town, leave your army in, take the general for a walk.

2) Build temple of Juno

3) Move about your new domain, setting towers at strategic locations

4) See where the next rebel province is (generally light brown border)

5) Raise a mercenary army, join them with whatever units you can spare from the town (given that public order stays decent)

6) Move to the next town.

Using this simple strategy, I went all the way to the North Edge.

Be careful with Dacians. They have some phalx infantry that will totally ruin your day and plenty of archers. Their faction leader is an 8-star general -- hardly an easy beating.

One thing that is totally bugging me is how you guys deal with squalor?!? I took Siracuse early on and have had nothing but trouble with the city -- it grows fast, it is totally unprofitable and seems completely overtaken by squalor! Trade isn't good there either ... Athens seems to be the same bad deal, just slightly better.

Doug-Thompson

10-10-2004, 01:38

There's an impressive thread on squalor in the Collosseum. Here's the bottom line: Squalor goes up with your population at a fixed rate, and there's really not a #!&% thing you can do about it.

"Happy" buildings, sanitation and so forth just treat the effects of squalor. The only thing that actually cuts downs squalor itself are new "city hall" buildings like a imperial palace. A few governor's traits also help.

Things like constructing units only seem to reduce squalor, but that's only because they're reducing the population also.

This is a serious problem for the Brutii in particular, because we conquer heavily populated Greece right off the bat. However, I'd rather have the power in Greece.

Accounting Troll

10-10-2004, 19:44

Always build temples of Mars in your two Italian cities so they can become major troop producing centres.

I always take wardogs with me when I'm fighting any faction that has hoplites. They break the enemy formation and also inlict a morale penalty, thus making it easier for your hastatii and principles to rout them. Even Spartans find it hard to concentrate on what is in front of them when they are being bitten in the rear by hungry dogs. This is particularly useful in city assaults where your skirmishers and cavalry don't have room to manovere.

When you conquer Greece, relocate your capital to a more central location such as Athens to reduce problems with unhappiness caused by the distance to your capital.

I prefer to conquer the entire Balkans up to the Danube, including Illrya and Dacia. A fort on each side of each fording point of the Danube will defend your cities against barbarian raids. As your borders will be less porous, brigands will be far less of a problem.

Once you have consolidated your position in the Balkans, invade Asia Minor for the wonders.

HopAlongBunny

10-13-2004, 16:26

Excellent guide Doug-Thompson ~:)

I did much the same thing but my first expedition was a disaster.

Took Apollinia and the town to the North. Consolodated. Launched a small force to take Pratavium (sp). I had it all! (Yay me! )

The Greeks showed up with 80 boats; sunk my fleets; ate my armies for lunch. I was surprised that they did not pursue me into Italy. After years of rebuilding the Senate said, "Get thee to Corinth!"; I figured why not? It was either that or give up.

Corinth-Sparta-Thermon-Athens all in short order. Once you get started, no detours I guess ~:)

edit: I never managed to get a fleet going; the Greeks would show up everytime I thought I was gonna start rolling and sank every boat.

Slaists

10-15-2004, 16:11

don't make the mistake i made playing brutii: building the mars line of temples in your capital... sure, you get +3 experience troops but the cost is you having all the generals that pop in the capital having the anger/madness line of vices with bad influence, management, and command consequences... rather, build it in some province that you can keep running without a governor. Just drop in a governor with unit producing discount traits in to que up units from time to time and take him out right after... Julii have a similar detrimental effect with their Bachus line of temples. But they do not need Bachus for producing troops.

as to squalor: the brutii have the ultimate squalor fighting mechanism: the juno line of temples. note, it does not fight the squalor itself: it raises happiness due to health by a considerable amount negating the detrimental effect of squalor.

Kekkonen

10-19-2004, 07:22

as to squalor: the brutii have the ultimate squalor fighting mechanism: the juno line of temples. note, it does not fight the squalor itself: it raises happiness due to health by a considerable amount negating the detrimental effect of squalor.

Isn't that a two-edged sword though? I'm pretty sure health has a positive effect on population growth as well.

A hint for Brutii players: you start with no missile units, but have no fear. When you have the time and a little extra cash, take one of your generals to a short vacation in Crete. There he can recruit excellent Cretan mercenary archers, who have longer range than your regular guys with bows. You need about 800 denarii or so for that; if you have extra to spare, there may even be some Rhodos slingers (capable stand-in for regular archers) available for about the same amount of cash. Just beware: try to land on a spot with no woods (pref. east of the island's only city); the natives may be waiting in the bushes, and they're definitely not friendly.

Racoth

10-29-2004, 11:03

Actually you can find Cretan mercenary archers in every greek province now and then.
They 're simply the best archers in the Rome-Balcan-Minor Asia region...

Maltz

10-29-2004, 19:09

In my current Brutii campaign (VHard/VHard) I am about 15 years into the game, and I have 20 provinces & 150k in the bank. It is probably the easiest fraction I have ever played. Here is what I did:

[Stage 1]: City 2 -> 4

Occupy the rebel town (Senate mission) in turn 1, then occupy the rebel town just north of it. Ship all available armies, diplomat and spy east to the Balkan pennisula. Turn one of the starting cities into a troop producing base.

Note: Senate asked me to blockade the Carthagians on Sicily; I ignored.

[Stage 2]: City 4 -> 7

Arrange an alliance with the Macedonian, attack and enslave all Greek (not Macedon) settlements there incl. Athen. Turn Sparta into a Principe mass-production base for its already-built 2nd level barrack, and sign a ceasefire with the Greek. Move your capital to Athen for its already-built Academy. (Good for young family members)

Note: Senate asked me to blockade the Greeks on Sicily; I ignored.

[Stage 3]: City 7 -> 11

Break the alliance and attack Macedon with everything. Exterminate every town from this point (unless its population is < 1000) and destroy Macedon as soon as possible. Quickly generate a lot of troops from the Macedonian cities. There will be a plague in the old Macedonian capital at about 250BC (which I haven't encountered), so don't leave family member(s) there.

[Stage 4]: City 11 -> 14

Field a 2nd army to occupy the Crete Island. Hire as many Crete archer mercenaries you can because they are the best archers you will have for dozens of years. Then, land 2 armies simultaniously to the Greek cities on the east side & Rhode to avoid all the struggle with the might Greek navy. Declare war to the Greeks again and occupy both cities in one turn. Cease fire (and ally) with the Greeks again.

[Stage 5]: City 14 -> 20 (I am at this stage now)

In the meantime, field a 3rd army to the northeast for Thracians & then Scy*ians (sorry can't spell). Field a 4th army, which also heads north but turns west to handle Dacian. Field the 5th army to expand towards Sicily. In my game the impotent Roman Scipii hasn't expanded any further in Sicily.

Continue the eastern expansion with army no.1 & 2. Declare war to the Selucid Emprie and Pontus and keep going east while picking up rebel colonies. Ally with the Egyptians and Numadians to stay out of naval threat.

Hope this helps. ~:cheers:

LestaT

11-11-2004, 09:56

Unless I am mistaken, war dogs main purpose in real life was to pursue routers.

========

:duel:

I'm not sure about war dogs but my idea is to charge into pack shield wall. It sure disrupt formation in real life situation, but in the game terms..

~:handball:

Vikings

11-12-2004, 15:53

I would say Brutii is my favorite faction of all. Why becuz they have nice Temple bonuses but too bad not the Neptune. Having a few Mars Temples for recruiting, one for Juno to train your governors/generals then the rest is Mercury.

Mercury have nice bonus on trade depend on traffic conditions and cities populations.

Amazing seeing Macedon's Artemis:Hunting with a whopping +5 missile upgrade for missile type units. They are very handy Temples indeed, esp defending a fort or mega city.

I usually let out pack of spies and diplomats to search for other good leaders and if they are not protected well enough and that leader has good skills like Retinues, bribe them and take that skill that you cannot possibly have.

Maximum of 8 Retinues is what i heard, but nice to have all that bonuses on governors and generals. Btw, watchout for leader faction besure not to leave any valueable Retinues on him, if he dies it all lost.

-Vikings

Slon

12-20-2004, 00:41

Just a note about defeating Egypt:

By the time you get to these guys, they will be VERY powerful. I find that the best way to defeat them is to start training Legionaries, some cavalry and archers. Heavy onagers won't hurt (if you have them), either. If you don't have them, don't worry. The Egyptian cities are fully upgraded and you can train them after you take the first city, as well as retraining your elite troops in Egypt. While your troops get ready to attack, send LOTS of spies and assassins to the main Egyptian cities (memphis, alexandria, thebes). Send at least 10 each. Then, train your spies a little bit in spying by spying on some of the diplomats/roaming armies. Do the same with your assassins by killing off enemy captains over and over again. Then, infiltrate thebes with ALL of your assassins and start blowing up public order-increasing structures with your assassins. Before you know it, that city will revolt and Egypt will lose control of it. This will allow you to move in and take over the city without actually declaring war on Egypt! Or, if you're really rich, you can buy some of the Egyptian settlements. However, don't do this unless you're really desperate, since Egypt will use that money to push you back once you attack.

Once your armies (I recommend two huge ones) land in Egypt, beseige Alexandria and Memphis in one turn. They will fall at the same time (probably) and be a crushing blow to Egypt. If the enemy attacks, your powerful Legionaries will have no trouble holding the enemies off from a hilltop. Once you take Egypt, there will no longer be any powerful enemies for you to compete with. I also recommend attacking Pontus at the same time since they can attack your other cities if they are allied with Egypt. By this time, cash should really be pouring in if you kept building Mercury temples. Also, I recommend taking the Pontic cities early because there are two Juicy wonders right there, waiting to be captured!

Imperator

12-24-2004, 22:48

When I played with the Brutii I found that my biggest problem was the Macadonians. The Greeks only own about 2 cities in Greece, and they never seem to take a serious offensive against you. But the macadonians get all the cities north of Athens. Sometimes the Greeks still have Thermon, but that city is never very well defended. The Macadonians are supposed to be like the Greeks in their fighting style, phalanxes galore, but they aren't. With me, (I'm playing on hard/hard) they kept making light lancers, which are highly mediocre cavalry. They had a little infantry, but I always found myself staring at 5 or 6 regiments of those light cavalry, but those things will just get slaughtered by an organized regiment of precipes, or even hastati sometimes. (~D) So my campaign was long and difficult, but not all that hard once I got how to beat them. Let them throw their light cavalry at you, once they are engaged with your infantry, quickly send your equites to charge (send 2 regiments to charge the same target at a time, that scares them out of their minds.) all you have to do is get their cavalry regiments to rout one by one, and since they almost always seem to throw their general in that charge, try to kill him too. But once all their cavalry is gone, it is easy to get their infantry to rout. then mop up the fleeing infantry with your exhausted cavalry. Easy. After you finish off Macedon and Greece, the Dacians might or might not attack you. If they do, throw everything you have at them. They aren't tough, they just have a few really really big armies, bribe the smaller ones, and then gang up on the big ones. The next real campaign will be in Egypt. The Egyptian cities are huge, and almost untakable. Make a beachhead in Libya, then march your armies on Memphis, NOT ALEXANDRIA! Alexandria looks cute and undefended, but they will just throw you out the minute you take over, no matter what you do. Memphis will be tough, but the Egyptians aren't very good against heavy cavalry or spearman. Use Legionary cavalry to run over their chariots, and maybe flank any spearman they might have. Once you are sieging Memphins wait about five turns or just starve them out. It is EXTREMELY difficult to take the Egyptian cities by a full scale invasion because of all their archers, they will tire all your men out, then run over them with chariots. (the best way to take their cities if you must is with sapping points) Bribe their smaller armies with diplomats and slowly take all their lands. It won't be easy, but hopefully after you have taken Egypt from the Egyptians, they will run out of steam. Once Egypt is crushed the world is yours. by then you should have seen Marius come and go, and you should be able to march on Rome. Do it. Lots of land to be had, take the Lands from the Julii and Scipii, much closer to home, and no culture penalty. Then just take a few more settlements and you shoult be at 50 settlments.

Good Luck!

~:cheers:

Dutch_guy

12-29-2004, 01:20

my Brutii campain was by far the easiest I have ever done.
Once you get Athens Corinth and Sparta it get's really easy.
the only problem I had with the Macidonians was with the city Larissa, I captured it, but they sieged it the next turn with their best army ( commanded by a family member ) and they got their city back, for the moment
I then ( in a hard fun battle ) killed their main army ( marked by a famous battle marker on the battle map ) and tooke larissa, Thessalonica and Bylazora from them.
I was by that time making good money and expanded to asia minor ( Peragarum ) and destroyed the greeks. by the time the marian-reform started i was filthy rich and could afford to built every building and maintain many armies.
At that time the senate orderd me to kill my faction leader, which I of course didn't do, they outlawed me and I sacked Rome in a matter of turns, with their Scipii friends, the Julii actually held out for a long time. :duel:
I didn't even have to go to egypt, since I got 50 regions after I finally eliminated Macedon ( who were still holding a settlement in Libia : Cyrene ~:confused: )

if you expand fast you will encounter little resistance from Macidonians and the greeks. and even less frm the Dacians. I didn't take Thrace because of our aliance whitch lasted for about 25 years

Lord Preston

01-06-2005, 20:02

don't make the mistake i made playing brutii: building the mars line of temples in your capital... sure, you get +3 experience troops but the cost is you having all the generals that pop in the capital having the anger/madness line of vices with bad influence, management, and command consequences... rather, build it in some province that you can keep running without a governor. Just drop in a governor with unit producing discount traits in to que up units from time to time and take him out right after... Julii have a similar detrimental effect with their Bachus line of temples. But they do not need Bachus for producing troops.

i notaced this.... moving the capital to athens worked for me. puts the capital in the middle of my empire so distance from capital is less.

Oshidashi

01-12-2005, 12:41

I have had a really strange bruttii experience

Ofcourse I took appollonia and the other rebel city at the start. After that i send out my diplomats to my allies and bribed as many roman army's and generals as i could. I suspect the bribe thing is the reason for my strange game.

What happenned is that in turn 10 or so the senate announced me to be outlawed. If you think that's weird check this out: They also outlawed the scippii and the jullii! At the same time they gave me two final missions which was destroying the julli and the scippii. Surprised as I was i checked the diplomacy screen and noticed that all four roman factions were now at war with eachother, like a major civil war! I was like :dizzy2:

I now had to turn all my military attention towards italy. I concentrated recruitment in the cities on my fleet and got my army through bribing the other roman army's because this is much cheaper then recruiting yourself and at the same time you will weaken your enemy's.

Note that you cannot bribe units which you can't build yourself. An exeption is made for generals thank god.

I was able to take Capua in turn 15 or so and then i made a ceasefire with the senate so I didn't had to take up against there elite army and had more time bribing their great units to! The jullii where taken easily after suffering from a large number of bribes. During their destruction the senate declared war on me again but now I was ready for them. It took me quite some more turns to get the scippi on sicily because I had to respond to an invasion of the Gauls.

Because i exterminated many (not all) of the roman city's I was rich like hell and able to recruit a large mercenary army which took the greek city of Thermon. Somewhat later i conquered Syracuse and by this time I was already pressing the Gauls into France. Those crazy barbarians did annoy me by making an alliance with the macedon, the carthaganians and with the Germans. The Carthaganians were also allied with Spain so this large alliance caused me to watch my borders a little more against invasion. I also started to make alliances myself with the Thracians and the Dacians

In the medditteranian I have like 2 fleets of 20 ships but not enough to fight the other great naval powers effectively. I've now declared war on macedon together with Thrace and my finances are good, my units experienced and my family is large. Hope to get this to a good end after all.

Peace ~:cheers:

Aggie

01-14-2005, 09:02

I can't relate to Oshidashi's comments. But it sounds very interesting! In my H/H game I bribed a lot as well, but the senate only got really annoyed at me after I controlled the complete middle-east (including Egypt).

I'm now playing a VH/H game with the Brutii. My first VH-attempt. I followed the suggestions from this threat and took everything I could into Greece/Macedonia. My first aim were the rebel and Greek towns and after securing Sparta and Athens I decided that Macedonia had to go. The only real difficulty was Thessaloniki, where their main army with their king was located. But the Macedonians fell very quickly indeed. And the Greeks after that. The senate gave me the mission to conquer Rhodes, which was a bonus, because that island was no 1 on my list anyway (the Colossus). Meanwhile the Seleucid empire declared war, which made my next targets even more simple to determine.

I had my biggest issues with the Greek fleet. I took me quite long to get rid of them to get a safe passage to Asia minor and the islands.

Money was never a problem until now. From the start I had a couple of diplomats getting trade rights and selling maps around. I'm now at about 100K and the year is 256 B.C. I deliberately avoided bribing, to ensure a challenging endgame vs the other Roman tribes. Unfortunately they are doing a very bad job and only the Scipii managed to get a town until now: Syracuse.

EDIT: What followed was that my income went sky-high. Around 250 B.C. I was on 200K. Getting the Seleucid empire under my wings was never a problem. I also took over Dacia and Thrace. They were both very weak and I had troops that I didn't want to have unused. Then Germany declared on me, so I took 4 towns from them.

At 248 B.C. the reforms kicked in and in the same turn I was told that the people love me so much that they'd like to see me conquer Rome. So I made peace with Germany and Carthage. Then I sent half of my troops back to Italy and the other half to Egypt. It's 245 B.C. now and I'm standing in front of the gates of Memphis. I also conquered Rome and much of Italy.

My tactic with Rome was that I attacked a rather small stack just outside the borders with an overwhelming force. The senate troops from within Rome came to help -leaving Rome- and I won the battle convincingly. I then could enter into an empty Rome and never had to siege the place!

I was happy to see that the Julii and the Scipii managed to gain a lot of territory between 256 and 250. The Julii most of the former Gaul lands and the Brutii controlled Sicily and were quite far in conquering North Africa. The Germans, Britons and Egyptians were big empires as well.

My luck was that Julii was fighting Germany and the Scipii were in Africa. Italy was relatively empty.

I still have 8 regions to go, but with a force 5 times as big as the next best this will be very easy...

Brutii fan

01-23-2005, 15:26

I dont know if anyone has noticed this but if you upgrade to awesome temple of mars or panatheon of mars and you have a dockyard, you start to get a bunch of 3 star admirals. Really helped when I went across the med to egypt. ~D

Zizka

01-23-2005, 19:52

LestaT - The War Dogs were largly used by the germanic tribes to help break shield walls, as well as being good for hunting, and a deterant for horsemen. I have no idea why the romans get to use them but no complaints here there are 101 tons of fun.

RollingWave

01-29-2005, 11:18

Hmmm i'm doing my first campaign in this game as the Brutiis (dunno ... like the idea of the dudes that exile the roman king) only doing normal/normal though.

it's pretty long way in now . i have all but 1 cities in the balkens (the jullies took the rebel city before i got to it) about 1/2 of asia minor (my allies Pondus and Pathia have the rest.. Egypt still has a city too i think) syracuse, half of north africa (all the Egyptian holdings in NA) and have all the coastal cities of the middle east and making a final push on the eggies (finding it a major pain to reinforce through sea though even with total naval dominace)

the non roman factions are all prett screwed now... Egypt and Germania still has a half decent sized empire and so does Dacia (though extremely remote) all the rest are either gone or holding on to a small kingdom.

I think i'm pretty close to 50 now...

The jullies have all the gaul land and is pushing into both Iberia and Germania, the Scipillies after a very slow start finally have half of north africa. (though both of them have a huge navy... but i think my much more numerous and developed port will ensure naval superiorty)

I'm undecided if i should just march on Rome now and stab my fellow romans now... i'm more inclined to at least killing the egyptian first and pull a huge portion of my army back from the other side of the map... most of my cities near home is heavily fortified but high squaler etc is keeping me from sending them anywhere soon (but then same goes for the other 2 faction.. and i'm positive i can push the Scipillis out of the Continent very fast if war starts)... and also most of them aren't very well designed army probably lacking in either archer/infantry or cav... i think i should just secure the eastern part of the world first ....

The Senate is now giving me ridiculas missions with rather dire consequences ( like taking a settlement in the middle of nowhere ) my favor with them is going down but not rock bottom yet (the jullies are though) my favor with the people is far higher than the others though...

I'm still inexperienced at this so i'm not sure...

mikkkl

01-31-2005, 03:10

I have to say the Brutii are by far the easiest faction because they can take the eastern half of the map and have far shorter supply lines than the other Roman factions. Concentrating on taking the good stuff - Greece, at least 1 Sicily, Carthage and core Egypt as your crown jewels and you can't loose. Eventually i will move my capital to Athens which is pretty close to dead centre of your empire and a great base. Playing on hard/hard very early i take the south-east city in Sicily and not too long after head straight to Carthage and take that. Great recruiting cities and the Scipii never have a real chance. Then finish off all of Greece. Using lots of Equites and then Roman Cavalry i wipe all rebels and the Greeks/Macedonians aren't too hard as even with just cavalry you can take out phalanxes. Position 1 cav in front and then charge at side and rear with other cavalry. After Greece and a few other handy cities and having taken the easy cities in Asia i send a fleet with a couple of family members and take the 3 Egyptian cities on the Nile. Egypt will crumble and taking the rest is easy. I then consolidate and take every city on the eastern half of the map from the black sea ports southwards [don't bother taking extreme northern cities] and east from Carthage. Now you will have 40 plus cities and it's time for Rome. I use cavalry extensively everywhere but i have never tried bribing which is probably why i have so few family members and have to slow down from conquest and wait for more while sharing some across nearby cities. I also rarely use family members for battles as i am so short of governors so i have to fix this. The only unit i have trouble with is the Egyptian chariots which always give me a headache.

Aemilius

02-15-2005, 14:53

I actually found that Sparta is a easy kill. I rushed most of my troops over, thus killing the lone spartan-über-hoplite unit. Right after the siege I took the greek faction leader out along with his hopeless army.
I took Apollonia out with Aulus Brutus and the few troops he had. He then rushed the remaining greeks in Thermon with reinforcements from Tarentum.
That said I believe it is a good idea to take Sparta before the greeks start spamming fleets in the adriatic, which could ruin your day.

scipio the even younger

03-15-2005, 19:42

Grand Duke Vytautas

03-24-2005, 08:49

Well, the House of Brutii, is my first long campaign (I've played mostly short ones). I started with large unit settings medium/medium difficulty, v1.2. Here's how I played. Firstly, of course, as you mentioned I've taken all my best troops from Italy and landed in Greece taking Appolonia. I must say I used population movement strategy with peasants quite effectively. Soon I was at war with Greek Cities and later Macedon. I thinks this is the hardest stage of Brutii campaign and once these 2 nations are eliminated Brutii is the easiest faction and my favourite as romans in RTW IMO. So I've taken Thermon, later cut Macedons in 2 pieces by taking Larrisa - I had quite tough battles with Macedon (those buggers have way too much good cavalry!) Started building up my navy. When all of the Greece was mine, it was really easy. Now I have 25 provinces (including Thrace as my protectorate) in 240 bc, I'm bathing in money 150k. The real fun with civil war will soon begin... My army: hastati later princepes and triari as a backbone (at least 60 % of army), 4 equites (or 2 equites + 2cav aux) 2 war dogs (they're funny :)), some artillery if available and a powerful navy is all you need as Brutii to conquer the known world...
Good luck to you all!

Coccum_Pugnus

03-26-2005, 19:33

This was the first faction I finished. It was all pretty much a blur from the begining, I have to say that I love highways, I found them very useful for my Unreleting blitz. strategy., I didn't stop untill I got Egypt in my grasp. This faction in my opinion is the easiest one to play, there 'natuarl' expanison is east and so they never run out of land to conquer where as the other two do. Also they become rich quick, and I put all that mony to good use bribing the other factions armies. All in all I beat the game as this faction in 202 BC.

orcorama

03-26-2005, 20:09

i agree that brutii is easy after you wipe macedon off the map.
also when the senate asked me to take lilybium i did and then went on to get carthage and thapsus.
my aproach to macedon was i took appoliana and salona and the illyria province.
meanwhile i had my main army led by my uber 8-10 star general to take thermon then i went to sparta but i was defeated there so i left my army in a boat right next to it and signed a ceasfire with greek cities.
also i had arranged sold trade rights/allience/map info/mutural military access with macedon. you are thinking "what is he doing???" this let me concentrate on sparta and then build up a massive army there to swarm corinth and athens. i took sparta then i built an archery range for balistas. since macedon betrayed me i stormed corinth(which i was going to do anyway) and moved right up to athens. the next turn i took athens and voiala(sp) i had macedon contained to the upper section of greece. i quickly took larissa and after a few more turns took thessilonica and the next turn the last macedon city above it eliminating macedon as a faction.

now it is 256 BC :
i have about 70k and make money every turn. i have taken the two gaulish provinces in northern italia and massila i am sieging lugdunum. i have also taken citra from carthage. i havetrade right with just about everyone.
the julii are sitting outside caralis not sieging or anything just sitting there. they have taken narbo whatever and segesta.
the scipii have syracuse and thats it. they do have a 2/3 stack moving towards lecis magna but my diplomat will get them.
i got mapinfo from numidia and they have every thing else in africa except fot egypt starting lands.

I have taken all of numidia except for tingi spain got that first. I have taken two of the tracian cities and crete and rhodes. i own gaul except for narbo martils up to lemonum and lugdunum.
numidia has one town. gaul has one town. thrace has one town. greek cities has one town i believe. i cant see all of parthia. im ready to finish of thrace and then get dacia. after that ill seriously attack seleulcid and egypt from both directions.
i have about 30 provinces and its looking very good. scipii and julli are still extremely weak thanks to my bribing.
edit after more progress
now i think ill take the rest of gaul up to britannia and either attakc or just sign a treaty.
will update later

cunobelinus

03-30-2005, 21:08

i found brutti the best roman group they are in the best postion and have the eaiest people to kill off i went fro carthage to begin with because its an amazing city then i went for greece and macedon then i took the hole of the world this has been my most succesful campaig :duel: n and i am so happy with it

Craterus

03-30-2005, 21:18

cunobelinus

03-31-2005, 21:31

i will try soon thanks for the opinion

pezhetairoi

04-14-2005, 05:26

Brutii are definitely the easiest Roman faction (and possibly the easiest faction full-stop) to play in RTW. They get the richest cities from the start, and the highest population ones to boot. What else needs be said?

I mean, when I can end up with over a million denarii (and no idea how to spend it) by the time I knock out Egypt, it says something about how fearsome that faction's economic power is. And I assure you it has nothing to do with me building any trade buildings. Maybe the automanage AI, but not me.

Craterus

04-14-2005, 16:30

Egypt are another really easy faction economically. I have over 2 million denarii but I haven't knocked out any Roman factions yet but there is only 7 or 8 factions left.

pezhetairoi

04-20-2005, 01:14

How do you people make the transition from pre to post Marian reforms? For me it was pretty terrible when all of a sudden my armies became obsolete at a stroke. Do you people raise new armies, while disbanding the old ones, or scatter the old ones as garrisons and use new ones to attack, or just continue using the old ones until they die out before replacing, or what?

katank

04-20-2005, 01:28

I personally let my old armies die out fighting. No point to disbanding as that is as if I'm giving the enemy free kills. Frequently, I'm in the middle of military expeditions. Better to keep up the pressure with the old troops and maintain the tempo rather than wait for new troops to be brought up if they don't have to be.

Copperhaired Berserker!

04-24-2005, 23:09

I need a gudie for Spqr 3.0 for brutti?Healp? ~:confused:

pyhhricvictory

04-25-2005, 04:04

The same thing happened to me that happened to Oshidashi. I had taken Sparta, Corinth and Athens in Greece as well as Pergamum, Sardis and Halicanarsus. I get outlawed the next turn, so do the Julies and the Skippers. The Senate will take my alliance but will then immediately outlaw me again the same turn. I have no idea what happened.

Craterus

04-25-2005, 17:10

I think it would be funny if the 3 slaves of the senate (Julii, Brutii and Scipii) jsut eventually got so annoyed with their bossiness and destroyed them. Then there would be a battle for Rome. I tihnk Brutii or Scipii would win it.

pezhetairoi

04-26-2005, 01:54

Hey? why not the julii? Go Redskirts! *is a Julii fan*

Craterus

04-26-2005, 15:54

They don't expand so much, Scipii plow into Africa and get Carthage..
Brutii plow into Greece and Macedon and get good amount of meney from there..
Julii's advantage is that they have themost cities in the Roman peninsular and therefore troops almost immediately.. Scipii have only Capua but they have Sicily before long but that would still take time to move the troops across..

Brutii would have to march troops north from southern italy..

blah blah blah etc.

pezhetairoi

04-27-2005, 01:32

Ho hum... that may not be true, I found Julii in all sorts of weird places, like right now in the Scythian campaign Corinth and Sparta are red... O_o And in my Brutii campaign Western Dacia was red O_o and that's in addition to the usual suspects of Osca, Narbo Martius and Caralis.

katank

04-27-2005, 02:30

Scipii actually frequently fail at uniting Sicily and can be stuck with just Messena and Capua, then getting their army decimated by the eruption at Etna, making them quite weak.

The Brutii eventually crunches through all of Greece though it takes them a long time and are usually one of the strongest Roman factions.

With Julii, it can also be hit and miss but they are guaranteed northern Italy and Caralis most of the time.

In one of my Brutii games, they have those territories and then Condate Redonum, the Britanny area, must have bribed it. They do go weird places.

As for show down, my bet for the AI is on Brutii if they mobilize well. Else, it's Julii.

Craterus

04-27-2005, 16:00

In the leate part of my game, the Julii own all of France and are about to expand into Germania then Britain..

They were the last to stat expanding and yet they own the most land, followed by Brutii then Scipii..

pezhetairoi

04-28-2005, 01:23

It's just the AI's infantry rush at the beginning of the campaign...standard AI tactics, that. Once you break the initial tidal wave of warbands you're clear all the way to the English Channel.

Rome's Total Ruler

05-02-2005, 13:16

I conquered Apollonia and Thermon immediatly, then the senate gave me a mission to take over Salona, Patavium and Mediolanium. After I`ve cut of the Julii, they wanted me to conquer Athens, I did everything as they said, exept Patavium the first time, because I saw the Gaul having huge armies, so I 've build a 20 units army, that took a little long, but the next mission i've got was to conquer patavium, two times the same mission in a row. :dizzy2:

Now, the Gaul constantly offer a ceasefire in trade for Patavium, I ignore every time.
The port of Athens is constantly blocked by Greek fleets. Every time I destroy the fleet, they come and desroy my fleet again. Now i'm building up my army to conquer first Sparta and then Corinth. I've got an alliance with the macedons from the beginning and they still never attacked me. ~D

The greek keep annoying me with there port blocking of Athens and there attacks from sparta. I hope my army holds it against Sparta. :charge:

pezhetairoi

05-03-2005, 01:39

Ignore their blockades, take Sparta, then find some way to take down their provinces, hunt-and-destroy style. I used to do that as Germania versus the Roman factions. The Scipii were taken down even though they fled to Dimmidi. AFTER that, I turned my attention to the other factions. But not before.

katank

05-03-2005, 02:58

Blockades do little to truly hurt you. I've yet to seen AI blockades tight enough to choke off a significant portion of your income and also prevent your troop transporting.

The fact that they are spending so much on their navy means they dont' have much of an army. So sack their cities and soon they will be rebel fleets which are far easier to deal with.

Craterus

05-03-2005, 15:49

I have a decent Thracian fleet blockading my capital, my moneymaker, that crippled my economy and that's put me in serious debt, completely halting my advance into their territory. It was pretty effective.

pezhetairoi

05-04-2005, 01:31

Franconicus

05-04-2005, 07:05

Why does he not have to deal with rebel fleets (I call them pirates)? I just had to attack one that blocked one of my harbors. ~:confused:

Rome's Total Ruler

05-04-2005, 08:08

My problem with the greek is solved, Athens grew, so I built some Quinquiremes and together with some old fleets I kicked them out of my harbors. ~:cheers:

And I never had any problem with pirates before.

Craterus

05-04-2005, 17:46

No, but any fleets I do have in the Black Sea aren't powerful enough to defeat this Thracian fleet. And I don't have any money to build more ships. I'll just have to sack their towns with the army I've got and hope I get some cash to bring in reinforcements.

As with the Brutii, are they more exciting than other Roman factions? I didn't find the other two very fun.

katank

05-05-2005, 00:37

They get gladiators earlier with city level. Also, the velite glads get attack bonuses against elephants and chariots which is useful.

They get the +3 exp temple of Mars line. This is great. Also, their position is nice for an easy ride into Greece and the riches of the east.

pezhetairoi

05-05-2005, 05:23

Yup, I finished my Brutii campaign with the biggest treasury of my 3 Roman campaigns. Rebel navies block? Hmm. Mine weren't too intelligent, just sitting around in the sea. Oh well.

katank

05-05-2005, 18:10

Rebel navies do block but they don't get higher level ships like Triremes and Quinquremes IIRC. This means when the navy turns rebel, a lot of ships disappear. This makes for easier killing of the rebel navy.

pezhetairoi

05-06-2005, 01:40

cool, never knew that. Never had to engage a rebel navy before.

DensterNY

05-06-2005, 17:30

Greetings fellow RTS fans,

All is fair in love and war... and with that said let me contribute my support for Brutti and some effective tactics that I've stumbled upon.

First, the Brutti family is awesome and definitely in one of the best strategic starting positions of the Roman alliance. Two interesting things occured that have helped my campaign.

1). Thessalonia is almost guaranteed to have an outbreak of the plague before 250 BC so after one of my spies there contracted it I promptly sent him to visit the cities of my Roman allies. I kept him in a nice loop going back and forth between these cities to ensure that when the plague lifted from a city or my spy I quickly reinfected them. This has helped keep my allies in a weakened state and puts me in a better position for when the civil war breaks.

* actually the plague is turning out to be such a godsend (pun intended) I infected another spy and am sending him to visit some of my future neighbors way way ahead of my armies.

2). The Senate assigns me a mission to take Sparta so I land an enormous army and land off of its coast. In response Greece sent a large army but they couldn't land because my ships were lining the coasts (we were at peace at that moment). So I sent my ships to attack their lone ship and I killed off an army of 8 Hoplites, 4 cavalry and 3 archers with barely a drop of Roman blood shed.

Alright, well you guys have a great weekend...

Regards,

Dennie

Craterus

05-06-2005, 17:40

Welcome to the org ~:wave:

Nice tactic for the plagues, thanks, I'll use it in future. I tried to infect the Scipii with a diplomat but it didn't work. This diplomat travelled from Asia Minor (where he got the plague, he lived there for about 5 years with the plague) down to the Nile delta, on past Siwa, through Africa, past Carthage and made it to Cirta. Then he was cured of the plague, but if you think about it, that's at least 50 turns including the wandering about he did in North Africa trying to bribe Scipii stacks! So he survived with the plague for 25 years, in hot desert conditions where germs are prime for multiplication. WOW!

DensterNY

05-06-2005, 19:46

Thanks for the welcome...

Well the advantage of using a spy is that he can enter cities which makes them quite vulnerable to plague infection. I didn't really use him to try and infect armies though that would be a good strategy too.

My next target is of course Rome... I cannot describe how delighted it would be to bring them the plague, particulary those blessed Senators and their incessant demands. I'm sure everyone who plays RTW is smiling at the prospect as its almost as gratifying as invading Rome and putting the Senators to the sword. ~D

katank

05-07-2005, 02:07

Plague bearing spies is certainly cool.

If you like this, you should consider putting the plague ridden spy on a ship. Then never have the ship go into port and you have a continual source of infection. Load spies onto it to get biological weapons locked and loaded.

Using the navy to sink the enemy army is indeed great.

BTW, I don't think that spies can actually infect enemy field armies since they don't actually enter the enemy stack.

Craterus

05-07-2005, 19:37

Yeah, they just look at it from distance, check out the men they've got. I don't understand how a spy can find out someone's (a character) traits by spying.

katank

05-07-2005, 21:41

They actually peer at it right next to the stack. That reveals the trait of the commanders and detailed info on all units.

If it's some distance away, there is a question mark for the actual details of the unit.

However, at no point does the spy actually enter the enemy stack, making it seem like it's not possible to give the plague to the enemy stack.

Craterus

05-07-2005, 23:18

If they never entered the army camp, then they would know the units, possibly, but they would not be able to find out the general's traits without getting close to him.

MackBolan

05-07-2005, 23:29

Im currently pretty far in my VH/VH Brutii campaign. I started off as most have described, taking Appolonia, Thermon, Greek cities and Macedon. As with this campaign, i have started a new little trend. Leave you enemies alive, dangling by a thread. It makes me feel powerful. Example: In my war with Macedon, I completely destroyed them in Europe, leaving one measly settlement directly south of the Sea, in Africa. I did this also with Rhodes and Greece, it is their only settlement. (I am aware of the Wonder on Rhodes, but I am currently producing no less than 3k per settlement, a goo dnumber of them making more. Athens itself is making a cool 7500 per turn.) I kinda jumped from Europe and when to modern day Turkey, taking Halicarnasus, Pergamum, and that city in between them. I began a small war with the Selucids and have Tarsus surrounded with Watchtowers and my settlements. All the other Selucid citys are MINE!!!! The next logical step seemed to be Egypt of course. Yesterday saw me take the final Egytian citys, Memphis, Alexandria, and Thebes. The island of Salamis is their only city. ~:cheers:

The year is 214, my best general just died (89 years old) Full stars Full Influence. His eldest son is conquering the remainder of Africa, and his youngest has been ferried to Thessalonica to deal with the Thracian Threat. Marius reforms have yet to happen.

A few notes about things i did notice, it would probably be better to take Thrace out completely before you venture on. They become a big problem if you wait. Their mix of phalanxes and Falxmen is devastating to my Hastati. Pre-Marius efforts on Thrace should only be attempted with a decent general (4 stars at least) and nothing short of Principes. Believe me, those Falxmen will put the fear of god in your Hastati.

McArthurBR

05-08-2005, 01:16

do you guys have any tips about the falxmen?
i mean, some good ways to kill them

Craterus

05-08-2005, 01:29

Pin them and charge into their rearwith cav? Works with most barb infantry.

McArthurBR

05-08-2005, 01:35

Pin them and charge into their rearwith cav? Works with most barb infantry.

i'm trying that
but many times they just turn and hit the cav, killing many of them
i'll try to put stronger inf to pin them.. they MUST pay attetion on my inf hehe
at the moment i'm using velite gladiators to pin them, but these glad are too
disorganized (or unorganized? dont know =p) and cant keep a good pin

katank

05-08-2005, 03:06

Falxmen are best killed from range. Use ample archers. Also, have velites behind your lines and set them to hold ground and fire at will. Do the same for your hastati.

The mix of arrows and then concentrated pila will typically destroy 3 units of falxmen right away. Feign with cav to keep em dancing in front of your lines to eat pila and arrows.

MackBolan

05-08-2005, 17:58

I agree, but you'd definately need at least 3 units of archers. Im talkin going against 6-8 units of Falxmen, charging under cover of skirmishers and archers. i agree w/katank as well about keeping the velites behind the lines. BUT DO NOT USE HASTATI, they run like dogs. Principes or higher.....post marius Im sure the Earlys can handle it but dont use Hastati. Anything w/out armor or shields is gonna be SUPER vulnerable to missle attacks. If the enemy stack in question has no cav then either simply let their infantry absorb that missle fire and chase down their missle troops w/your cav. by that time the Falxmen should be close to your line. engage them w/your troops and your cav should be behind em in perfect positon to charge into the rear. can anyone say instant rout?

pezhetairoi

05-09-2005, 03:56

If you know what you're up against in the beginning, draw up your army concentrated close to (but not AT) one corner of the deployment area, and hit one flank first with your cavalry on the extreme flank to outflank the rear's archers and cavalry. Most of the time the enemy responds by setting up his line as per normal, so outflanking is easy as long as you charge your infantry at a run while your cavalry go round wide. Your infantry should hit first, so they take notice of them. Meanwhile your cavalry should advance in line with them. It is essential you do not pass the Dacian line because then they will respond and turn to face your cavalry upon which it will be harder to outflank their archers, and they will not 'notice' your infantry as well as you would like them to. Try and break their flank before the other end of the Dacian line is able to close up, and keep some cohorts in reserve to hold off those new arrivals from your flank-crushing force's flanks.

DensterNY

05-11-2005, 17:12

If there weren't enough benefits to using the Brutti for your campaign here is another boon that I've discovered in my games. As many people on this thread suggested I built up shrines and temples to Juno in my newly conquered territories to counteract culture penalties. However, I began to notice that my family members have been reproducing quite well while governing these cities. In fact, many of my family members have four children and nobody has less than two. Part of this reason is because Juno temples allow you to retain Physicians which increase the chances for childbirth. (or perhaps its just the water ~D )

I sent a childless and quite mad governor aged 36 from a Mars dedicated city to a Juno city and within a few turns he had 2 children. I guess they're the ancient versions of The Mayo fertility clinic.

~ Long live the Brutti

Garvanko

05-14-2005, 19:30

For some reason Im innately defensive when I play Brutii.

pezhetairoi

05-16-2005, 01:54

...Interesting. Perhaps it's the effect of the hoplites?

DensterNY

05-16-2005, 17:41

Wow, I wish I paid more attention to the last few posts before I marched on to Thrace. There I was totally victorious from my campaigns against The Greeks and The Macedonians. My Eastern armies were making steady headway into the Seleucidian empire so I figure, hey I have some nice neighbors to the Northeast with some decent sized towns and cities.

So I'm making war with the Thracians and take my textbook, kick-butt approach, Principies deep on guard, fire at will, velites right behind on guard, no skirmish, archers behind them. Seems to work great against everyone else. The Thracians charge with 8 groups of 40 falxmen and cut into my infantry like a hot knife through butter. All of my men rout and run behind the gates like frightened children. I did eventually win that fight because they chased my men to within arrows reach of my wooden walls and I waited there on fast-forward and let my archers kill them off volley after volley.

Man, it doesn't matter how big or advanced your cities are, how far your empire reaches, how deep your treasury is or how deep your army marches, a bunch of crazy barbarians with 3 foot long scythe blades can still kick your butt.

:)

katank

05-16-2005, 23:39

Hi Denster,
I see you are from NY too. :balloon2: welcome.

It's true that falxmen are one of the best level 2 infantry units around. Missile fire is the least expensive way to kill em off. Ballista work well too. I ideally use 6+ archers complete with ballista parked on a hill when facing those guys.

Principes are actually decent against them. Make sure you turn on fire at will and let them use all their pila. Same for hastati and turn velites off skirmish. The blanket fire of pila combined with archer power is often sufficient to crush them at near point blank range.

pezhetairoi

05-17-2005, 01:34

Hoplites one-on-one against falxmen are also extremely efficacious when they are 4 ranks deep or greater.

Garvanko

05-18-2005, 20:47

...Interesting. Perhaps it's the effect of the hoplites?
Possibly, but I think its probably got something to do with doubtful courage. :embarassed:

Nevertheless, fresh from conquest with Egypt, I have began the Brutii campaign once more in earnest. So far, I control all of Greece, Macedon is destroyed, most of Sicily captured, ditto Carthage and Thapsus (dunno why everyone wanted to avoid the last three, because theyve we're pretty easy to get, and i've pretty much stopped any kind of expansion by Scipii in the process - the end game should be a cakewalk).. Going to spend the next fifty years capturing a few more wonders, and work my way northwards and west against Thrace and eventually Germania.

Easy. ~:handball:

Maximus_Praetorian

05-19-2005, 17:32

All very interesting. Here is a question for most of the advanced players. What is the purpose of the seante missions? Can you ignore them and pursue victory on your own grounds. or will that just piss them off and declare civil war more rapidly. I always run into this problem. I accumulate vast wealth, only to have the senate ask me to attack a neutral faction, thus requiring me to abandon my current wars, redeploying my armies and thinning them out abroad, or create new units to defend my settlements and attack new factions. either way, it almost always bankrupts me. :furious3:

Craterus

05-19-2005, 17:48

Welcome to the org ~:wave:

You don't have to do Senate missions but it is advised. When playing the Romans, I complete acceptable missions but I will not declare war on a neutral faction just because they want me to. Once, I was campaigning in Africa (as Scipii) at which point they ask me to take Larissa. IN MACEDON? No thanks. I wouldn't have even got there in the 10 turn limit.

Do the ones you want to do, but ignore the outrageous ones, that's my advice.

Although, if they offer you a major exotic unit, go for it! This can be eles or Legionary First Cohort.

Maximus_Praetorian

05-19-2005, 18:38

Thanks for the welcome. You'll see me around for a while. I am an avid gamer and rome: total war is probably one of the best i've played. thanks for the advise ~:cheers:

pezhetairoi

05-20-2005, 01:29

see you around then... Don't complete the outrageous missions, btw. If you manage to complete them yout standing with the plebs will increase but your standing with the senate will decrease greatly making faction leader suicide demands that much quicker.

Craterus

05-20-2005, 15:49

I never got those demands, I only played short campaign with Romans...

katank

05-20-2005, 21:13

I personally find it very efficacious to complete Senate missions at the beginning of the game. It is usually quite reasonable and something you would do anyhow. The first mission is usually 5000 denarii which really helps your economy.

Afterwards, only major exotic unit missions are really great. As mentioned, first cohorts and merc eles are both excellent rewards. Both are hard to get otherwise. Besides, you can later have the irony of killing the Senate with what they gave you. I certainly had fun routing their big stack with my 2 merc eles both given to me by them crushing a flank together with some cav.

DensterNY

05-23-2005, 18:24

Hey Katank, howyoudoin - yup fellow New Yorker here.

I'm finishing up my first campaign thoroughly crushing any enemies foolish enough to bare swords with my armies and am looking forward to starting a new game. I've played my first one after reading through Frogbeastegg's invaluable guide and picking up some great tips from this forum.

The thing is though that once I caught my momentum the game lost a great degree of its challenge for me. I learned how to efficiently and effectively manage my cities to produce more than enough money and troops to feed my insatiable bloodlust and thirst for expansion. In combat I formulated a nearly undefeatible strategy and formation - winning over 112 battles by raining pilas and arrows onto my enemies and only losing one battle - to egyptian chariots who rolled over my tight formations of principes and velities standing there on guard mode. Even this I quickly ammended by learning to keep loose formations and a wide crescent and broken line whenever a good number of chariots were involved.

I was wondering how much smarter is the AI on Very-Hard mode or should I perhaps look into some of the mod packs like RTR or perhaps looking into moding myself to make it more challenging? For instance, in anticipation of a civil war I masses up armies upon armies all with Onagers either just on my adjacent borders or off the coast of my Roman allies so that when it came I took over about 70% of the other roman faction's settlements in just one turn. I had tons of troops just sitting there, whereas any human player would feel rightfully threatened way before the fact.

Just my two cents, would appreciate some personal experiences of difference, etc...

katank

05-23-2005, 23:55

AI isn't much smarter. The money tightness of the VH campaign makes the beginning a bit more challenging and makes naval combat insanely hard.

However, it's still the same in mid-end game. VH battle is bugged in 1.2 as you get attack bonuses too, making battles over faster but no AI advantage.

You should check out mods for more challenge. I personally like SPQR and Vlad mod.

MackBolan

05-25-2005, 09:51

Hey Denster.

Brutii campaign has a ridiculous advantage over the other factions. You get SOOOOO much money that you literally can bribe away battles. Ive bribed full stacks for a little over 100k but when you're making 25k++++ a turn then its no biggie. Try some of the Barb factions, they are pretty tough. You money management needs to be really good. You also dont get more than Roads as Barbs so that hurts a lot. Also no siege weaponry. The Romans got it made sometimes....

pezhetairoi

05-26-2005, 01:41

Yeap. Try Dacia. Now *that*'s a challenge. Of course, Germania would be nice too, but it's too easy to win battles as Germania with your phalanxes.

katank

05-26-2005, 23:38

Dacia, Spain, and Numidia are economic toughies. Spain even stinks on the military front initially so is probly the hardest.

pezhetairoi

05-27-2005, 06:16

I always had the impression Numidian javelinmen were even worse than Iberian Infantry...

Craterus

05-27-2005, 17:36

My joint-campaign with Spain isn't going too badly. I have the economic power to march on Rome immediately. Unfortunately, Bull Warriors take 2 turns to build and their military units aren't that great as it happens anyway.

katank

05-28-2005, 16:55

Numidians can get Desert Spearmen which are reasonably good infantry the same time as Iberian inf. Besides, archers at the large town level makes Numidia a blitzing powerhouse. Their jav cav is also a tactician's dream.

Spain should definitely take Tingi quickly. This coupled with Cordoba brought me into prosperity. Palma should also be a priority.

Very early expansion into Gaul is financial suicide.

DensterNY

05-31-2005, 17:47

Thanks guys for the advice... I love this game and hate to nitpick but once you figure out a few things it becomes clockwork butt-kicking and empire expanding.

I think however to truly experience this time period you need to play against true guile, cunning, deceit and betrayal - meaning playing multiplayer with your buddies, hehehe.. stuff like making alliances with Carthage to kill Senate missions for Scipii or with Gaul to hurt the Julii.

Just for curiosity sake how would you guys handle differently than the AI if faced with an army of Principies standing 4 deep across the entire line, evidently on guard and fire at will, backed by Velites and archers ? The AI would send in his cavalry to be butchered then march in like a dummy under a hail of pila. I've never played against another human being or found myself in a similar situation so what would you do tactically?

Denster

katank

05-31-2005, 20:44

First of all, it depends upon your army composition.

If you are a horse archer faction, you can simply mass fire and rip those Principes to bits while staying out of range of the enemy archers.

If you are a barbarian faction, then war cry and charge from just out of pila range. If you are traditional faction, either missile duel or move up your infantry. Note to turn off phalanx formation and charge up to them and then turn phalanx on.

Always try to flank with cav. 4-deep principes cannot stretch across the map unless corner camping. If they seem strong on refusing flanks, try smashing in their center.

Be flexible and look for opportunities.

MackBolan

06-02-2005, 08:18

Id dump on them w/my Onagers until that stupid line looks like swiss cheese. Then I would send 3 seperate lines of phalanxes to begin enveloping their degenerating line; under cover of archers of course. Then Id use my cav to attack between the 2 openings between my phalanxes, w/2 other cav units going around. Thats a fun one.

crazybastard

06-03-2005, 17:06

Is it just me or is it that the Romans have the best all-around infantries? Take for example, the hastaii and later, the cohorts, which with their decent missile attack, pretty darn well defense, and not bad attack can chew up other factions' units up in no time. And don't even get me started on Praetorian Cohorts...they are truly savages. The only infantries that can really face off with Roman infantry are (I think) German axemen and berserker. (Chosen axemen and night raider SUCK)

orcorama

06-04-2005, 01:20

its you ......
j/k
well if you dont count phalenxes maybe
they do have very very good infantry but i dont know about claiming the best all around infantry i would say it depends on situation
against eastern infantry yes definately the romas would win against a human player with phalenexes, other infantry, archers, and some good calvery the romans would get whooped

the germans have very good infantry and the high carthage infantry is pretty good
also thrace has falxmen which im told are pretty good also
the greek cities have sparten hoplites which are extremely good with swords

but....
i havnt played the romans after the marian reforms and i only got about to hasati and some pricipes so....
what do i know
most of this is based upon other's observations not my own experience

hope this stirs up some discussion among some of the better players than I
orcorama

btw: the german chosen axmen have an attack of almost 30!

crazybastard

06-04-2005, 05:59

I'm currently very popular with the Senators. Four of my family members are holding top-notch offices in the Senate (Profineus Maximus, Praetor Concuil...) but the "People" doesn't like me very much. I wonder why? Perhaps I need to conquer more lands?

Viking

06-04-2005, 18:03

btw: the german chosen axmen have an attack of almost 30!

Actaully it`s "only" 18, unupgraded.

Berskers are better than Chosen Axemen `cause they have better attack stats and 3 hitpoints while the axemen only got 1.

Moreover Bastaerne(sp?) is a better unit than Falxmen `cause of their HP`s and attack stats.

I think the best non-phalanx unit ingame is either Urban Cohorts or Berserkers.

:bow:

Craterus

06-05-2005, 00:29

First Legionary Cohort = Best unit in game.

katank

06-05-2005, 15:04

Chosen axemen most definitely don't suck. They get armour piercing attack which is most useful against legionares. With warcry, they can beat urban cohorts and get so much bonus from armour piercing that their attack does work out close to 30. Ideal flankers as when they crash into a flank/rear, they can negate shield and defence effects, only against armor which they get a bonus against.

night raiders are fast and have balanced stats. they also scare infantry and thus make for pretty good flankers.

Rome's Total Ruler

06-06-2005, 15:09

also thrace has falxmen which im told are pretty good also

They just slautered my Hastati, it was a Tracian army with almost only falxmen.
They're army was a little larger than mine.
I don't know how, but after the battle my 4 units of Hastati had routed and my Principes, who had fought far more then my Hastati, had almost zero losses.
I won with only 3 units Pricipes left, the rest had routed.

antisocialmunky

06-06-2005, 17:20

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you really can't evaluate a unit until you've seen a human rip you a new one with it.

katank

06-07-2005, 00:33

But if the AI rips you a new one with it, it's even more impressive as it means the unit is so godly that it can suffer absolute tactical incompetence and still come out on top.

Ianofsmeg16

06-07-2005, 12:46

But if the AI rips you a new one with it, it's even more impressive as it means the unit is so godly that it can suffer absolute tactical incompetence and still come out on top.

AGREED!!! fervently ~:cheers:

crazybastard

06-09-2005, 07:52

I'm about 20 years into my Brutii campagin. I'm on H/H. The Greeks are kicking Macedon's ass with their armoured hoplites, (tough mother *&%**&) so I decieded to join in and ally myself with the Macedonians. The Greeks still slaughter like fully 3/4 of our (me and the Macedonians) troops with only half of their units lost. But I still manage to beat them a couple of times, earn my faction leader the "Legendary Hero" and "Conqueror" thingy (yay) and now all my troops have a +4 morale and 25% more valour. LOL. But I'm still waiting for the freaking Gaius Marius Reform. Goddamn it's taking its sweet time. I can't hold off much longer with only hastaii and principii. Wish I can speed up the process somehow and get the reform done and go oblierate the Greek Cities.

Rome's Total Ruler

06-09-2005, 14:35

I'm 220BC now and I haven't seen a Marius reform yet.
Although I already have an Imperial palace (Some say that when you build one the Marius reforms begin).

Craterus

06-09-2005, 16:13

Please take note.

v 1.0/1.1 - Marius Reform happens as soon as you have an imperial palace.

1.2 - You need: Imperial Palace on Mainland Italy and date has to be after 220BC. There is a random trigger as to when the reforms happen. It could happen in 219BC, or it could happen as late as 175BC. Maybe even later, but 175 is the latest that I've ever heard.

IliaDN

06-09-2005, 16:25

I'm 220BC now and I haven't seen a Marius reform yet.
Although I already have an Imperial palace (Some say that when you build one the Marius reforms begin).
This topic was discussed in the coluseum , so you may check there.

katank

06-09-2005, 22:45

In RTW 1.2, the region needs the Italy resource which includes all starting Roman cities as well as the Gallic regions in North Italy and all of Sicily.

It's random after 220. It can often take place at late as 200 or even 180 when you have a palace by 220.

crazybastard

06-10-2005, 06:21

On H/H, I own the senate basically. all the positions of power in the SPQR governement are under my family rule: Prontifex Maximus, Aedile, Praetor...all six (or seven) of them. The Julii and the Scipii are busying themselves with meager and hard-to-hold provinces while I'm slaughtering the Egyptians and taking their rich-ass lands. I have about 30 provinces and still, "I don't have enough support" to attack the other Romans. I wonder why?

Garvanko

06-10-2005, 19:57

Someone mentioned just how good Legionary Cohorts are. Roman infantry are pretty incredible, but not as good as well marshalled phalanxes. But the support they get from Legionary Cav, Archers etc is unbeatable, post-Marias reforms.

Playing Scipii on hard/hard, and reforms happened by 235 BC. Taken Carthage, destroyed Greece and Macedon, taken Memphis, Thebes and Alexandria, blockaded all the other Egyptian ports (just to rub it in) ~:) , and am now looking to finish of Pontus.

My popularity with the poeple is good, and the civil is only a few years away I suspect.

katank

06-10-2005, 22:44

Legionaries are better due to maneuverability. Their pila is also deadly.

Even the AI cannot mess up too badly while playing with Roman infantry. The pila storm alone can often send 2-3 units packing and many attrited.

Deus ret.

06-12-2005, 15:21

Even the AI cannot mess up too badly while playing with Roman infantry.

true. most times, though, it just decides to rush you due to superior numbers & unit stats (often). Romans ARE powerful....and not easily outmaneuvred.

katank

06-12-2005, 16:30

The AI rarely flanks and often just busts through your center and with pila, massed Roman infantry are very good at this. I've intentionally made multishot lines only 3 units wide just to cope with this type of situation.

BoloBouncer

06-12-2005, 17:06

I bought RTW two days ago and am, surprisingly enough, still on my first campagain. I chose the Brutii just out of the blue (or the green, if you will) and took Apollonia and the other city far north of it, Segestica, on the coast and then Thermon to the south. So essentially I took the whole coast to the east across the sea from me. That's sound enough. This is where it gets strange.

The Senate asked me to blockade Sparta, so I did. This is before I learned that the Senate has this tendency to blockade-invade. So, I took Sparta. The Greek garrison there was small and I'm glad most of my tactical knowledge from MTW carried over. So I had Sparta.

Well, then they got it in their heads that I should blockade a city in Asia Minor: Pergamum. So, I take that place. Then they send me to Rhodes, and I eliminate the Greeks.

You can imagine what my faction's territory looks like right now, and I can tell you that it's far from consolidated. I declared war on Pontus, took Nicomedia to the north, and then the Senate ordered me to blockade-invade Sinope. So, I did. This is where things go from weird to sour.

I occupied Sinope just like I'd occupied every city up until this point. Only, my army wasn't nearly enough to quell the locals. What's worse, the season after I took Sinope, the Senate ordered me south to take the capital of Mazaka. Well, I'm far from home I think. I checked my history, and I'm sitting in places that historically Rome wasn't even thinking about until a century later, so I figure I'll abandon Sinope without destroying buildings (I was already rich and thought that I'd come back later and wouldn't want to rebuild). I march my men from Sinope south and siege Mazaka. Then the armies of Pontus emerged.

They sent a large army into Phrygia, 800+ men (I only had about 500 in Pergamum), and they sent another 800+ to siege Nicomedia. They sent a relief army to lift the siege on Mazaka, and that's when I started to not feel welcome. And so now to end this and tell you where I am:

I have Bruttium, Apulia, Dalmatia, Epirus, Aetolia, Laconia, Crete, Rhodes, Phrygia (their army is just sitting there half a move from Pergamum), and Bithnyia (I broke the siege). The one kick-in-the-pants I was able to give them happened on the plains between Mazaka and Sinope where their King happened to be marching alone with his contingent after they lifted my siege on the capital. I took my last remnant there, which I was planning to put on the long march back to Pergamum, and killed their King. This really didn't make them happy and the remaining bodyguard routed and slaughtered my men.

This whole time the Senate has been preaching about how Macedonia is the greatest thing since the stain-free toga, but now I have the feeling I should have just taken all of Greece and stayed out of Asia Minor. So, it's Winter 244BC.

StoneCold

06-12-2005, 18:08

I occupied Sinope just like I'd occupied every city up until this point. Only, my army wasn't nearly enough to quell the locals. What's worse, the season after I took Sinope, the Senate ordered me south to take the capital of Mazaka. Well, I'm far from home I think. I checked my history, and I'm sitting in places that historically Rome wasn't even thinking about until a century later, so I figure I'll abandon Sinope without destroying buildings (I was already rich and thought that I'd come back later and wouldn't want to rebuild). I march my men from Sinope south and siege Mazaka. Then the armies of Pontus emerged.

They sent a large army into Phrygia, 800+ men (I only had about 500 in Pergamum), and they sent another 800+ to siege Nicomedia. They sent a relief army to lift the siege on Mazaka, and that's when I started to not feel welcome. And so now to end this and tell you where I am:
.

I think this large army is from your revolted city Sinope. In RTW, when a city revolted, either they becomes rebels or go back to the civilization they are from, in this case, they return back to Pontic and created a large army in the process.

If you want to avoid this, just give the city back to Pontic, then there will not be a garrison in the city, or at worst a city full or rebel forces not forces loyal to the Pontic.

katank

06-12-2005, 23:24

Bad idea to go so far withough consolidation.

I definitely recommend taking Macedon out and then you can move your capital to Athens before you head far into Asia Minor. Athens gives nice traits to govs due to academy and low capital penalty is good.

crazybastard

06-13-2005, 02:36

Hey, @Bolobouncer one good way is to exterminate the population and the squalor will be press down...for a while. And don't build farms if you don't want the pop. growing like a mofo. Oh and do not take Carthage even if your life depends on it. Its growth rate is 7-8%...go figure. And destroy their temples and replace them with your own. Temple of Juno cuts the culture penalty by half.

Dark_Magician

06-13-2005, 14:15

I can't hold off much longer with only hastaii and principii. Wish I can speed up the process somehow and get the reform done and go oblierate the Greek Cities.

you have to use archers to initially equalize the situation. Generally, they run much faster than hoplites walk. You just have to have lots of them.

katank

06-13-2005, 21:18

Massed archers they cannot deal with. Use some cavalry, preferably cav auxila to run back and forth distracting the enemy. This way, you can keep them under your archers' umbrella of death while they don't charge your archers, being distracted with the cav.

Garvanko

06-14-2005, 20:33

orcorama

06-14-2005, 22:28

just so you know you can blockade from the land by moving and army into the port spot

sockerconny

06-16-2005, 02:34

Anyone have any tips about taking on Egypt, I just started my invasion of them? Supposedly heavy infantry get tired in the desert, does that mean I have to go with only hastati??? And cavalry are no good against chariots so what do I counter them with???

crazybastard

06-16-2005, 06:06

watch out for pharah's guard and pharoh's bow men. They are tough mofos.
Get a bunch of cohorts (legionary is better than early legionary btw) and run up to the Egyptians and turn on testudo mode. They Egyptians have a lot of missile units, and imho, they actually have the most diverse and balaned missile units in RTW. So anyway, by locking your cohorts in testudos will save them from Egyptian missile fire, and waste up all their ammos, although you might still lose quite a few men if you're up against pharoh's bow men. As for the chariots...auxila and plain cohorts will do the job. Just make sure you keep your missile and cavalry units (especially your general!) out of their crazy-two-wheeled son-of-a-gun and you'll be fine.
Oh and turn on fire at will for your cohorts when against massive chariots. Chariots have low defense and are vunlerable to pila.
May the force be with you, sockerconny

Deus ret.

06-16-2005, 12:48

Yes, cavalry auxilia is a good option. Also good are archers w/ flaming ammo (though often you won't have much time to pepper them before they close in) or plain peltasts/velites. Yes, even in melee; if I interpreted some cruel battles right, the combat bonus vs. chariots and elephants also applies to close combat (or mercenary peltasts are simply darn good against chariots). And if it doesn't, who the hell cares about losing some velites...
as mentioned, just make sure your general stays far away from anything on wheels, whether routing/panicking or not.

sockerconny

06-16-2005, 14:07

So that stuff about heavy infantry in the desert is incorrect, or it doesnt apply to cohorts? What about principes and triariai, the reforms recently happened but i have lots of the old troop types already produced and plan on using them. Are those specialist elite troops (acani and gladiator velites) worth building?
From my first battles with the egypts it seems like the AI handles them a bit better than the greek/macedon-style armies, which I could generaly smash totaly even when clearly outnumbered. Or maybe I just havent found the right tactics yet.

Deus ret.

06-16-2005, 14:16

in general the AI handles phalanxes very poorly, so indeed a campaign through greece is not too great a challenge.
yes, the Eggies seem to fare somewhat better, I made the same experience. maybe one more unreasonable built-in advantage of this most odious of factions.....about tiring heavy infantry I'm not informed. I always used some lighter phalanx units against these &%*#$§-chariots and apart from them exclusively (missile) cavalry. works well.

katank

06-16-2005, 19:06

Mahrabals apprentice

06-16-2005, 22:03

I am playin as scipii, its about 210BC and the selucids are still there, infact they seem to have lost 1 only province.
I sent a diplomat to see them as i was advancing on Alexandria/Memphis/Thebes to see if i could convince them to declare was on the Egyptian. I figure a second front would make my job alot easier. It turns out that the selucids and egyptians had allied with each other. I figure they allied very early becasue they hadn't taken any provinces from each other.

(I had 4 stacks advancing from the West on land and dropped 3 stacks on Alexandria from my fleet, needless to say i took all 3 cities in short order.)

Alliances usually don't last too long but i have had 1 with gaul which has lasted so long i don't remember how longs its been going, decades need less to say. And I have never given a single gift, not 1 denari. Has anyone else experienced these uberalliances. ~:grouphug:

Deus ret.

06-17-2005, 14:06

Fatigue is indeed often bugged. Anyhow, it's the sheer overpowered Eggy units that make them hard to beat.

Their hordes of chariots and many bowmen makes for the need for a mobile force as infantry gets shot up. Then their superarmoured axemen and buff phalanxes pharaoh's guard make cav not that great.

In the end, it requires decent tactics to beat them rather than a cakewalk.

Katank, it's no longer that bad. I don't know now if it was the scarface fix pack or v1.2....but the defence stat of those axemen has been downgraded to 12 from 19 or so. At least that's what I saw when the Eggy was still alive ~D This leaves them still dangerous but they're way easier to deal with.
However those Pharaoh's guards still pose a serious challenge and are served best with veteran missile (cav) or by a decent cataphract charge into their flank. :bow:

katank

06-17-2005, 16:58

The fatigue was better as is pri/sec bug in 1.2. The axemen no longer have 11 armor but they still shouldn't have 7. It should be like 3 or 2.

Pharoah's Bowmen is still crazy though in the horribly inaccurate infantry run speed. It allows them to run away from cav for a long time and then turn around and slaughter them in melee.

Kralizec

06-20-2005, 13:16

I started a Brutii campaign a few days ago. I was expecting to take on the Greeks first, then the Macedonians who the Senate for some reason seems to be in love with.
However, 2 turns after I had conquered Thermon the Macedonians laid siege to it...so much for the historical run of things.
I ceasefired with the Greeks and had some great battles against full stacks of Macedonian armies :charge:
Later as I took Larissa and killed off their giant armies, I underestimated Macedon and sent a medium size stack with my faction hair to take Athens. What I didn't know was that Macedon had several stacks in that province that assaulted me one by one, forcing my heir into several desperate battles wich he all won until the desperate last stand in wich he still managed to kill off half the enemy army :duel:
The senate kept telling me to blockade Sparta, bringing me into war with Greece but I chose to ignore them. The gauls attacked me too with fleets and later on Segestica, but those attacks were easily repulsed. Later they would demand me several times to become a protectorate. Silly barbarians.
Macedon, too, asked me to become a protectorate. I accepted just to see what happens if you become a protectorate, then cancelled his military acces ~D
Later I chose to comply with the senate mission and blockade Sparta, then sieged it and conquered it next turn. I offered the Greeks a ceasefire and they actually took it ~:eek:

For the future, well, Macedon won't last much longer and after that the Greeks shouldn't last to long without Sparta. I guess the Thracians will become my next target, then Egypt in hopes that it will make the Seleucid grow stronger and more of a challenge- otherwise they're always the first faction to perish. The Julii have behaved extremely stupid this game, they still only have their two starting cities and just have large armies sitting in forts guarding the bridges to the Gallic cities in Italy. The Scipii will be more difficult once civil war breaks out, they conquered all of Sicily fairly early but nothing else so far.

It's been fun so far, challenging battles and all. This may very well become the first game in where I'm actually going for the required 50 provinces ~:cheers:

Garvanko

06-20-2005, 21:37

IMO, Brutii are just as overpowered as Seleucid and Egypt. If you were ranking factions generally I'd say..

1. Egypt, Brutii, Seleucid
2. Macedon
3. Scipii, SPQR, Julii
4. Greece, Carthage (if you play them right)
5. Britons
6. Germania
7. All the rest, except...
8. Thrace

Alot depends on how you expand of course.

Craterus

06-21-2005, 14:36

How are you ranking that? Unit type? Expansion routes?

If you were ranking by unit type, Egypt and Seleucids have strong line-ups, as do Brutii, but you would have included other Romans because their rosters are almost identical to Brutii.

Expansion wise, Brutii and Egypt are fairly easy, but Seleucds have a tough start because they are surrounded by many enemies..

katank

06-21-2005, 23:32

Ranking upon you playing or the AI?

If it's you then Seleucids belong up there although Carthage is easiest due to early accessibility to all of Italy and Rome through the Carthaginian blitz.

If it's the AI, then the Seleucids should come about dead last. Their late lineup is fantastic but they never survive to have it.

Garvanko

06-23-2005, 21:28

Ranking by me playing. I agree about the AI's suicide mission with the Seleucid, but frankly, when you play them, theyre as easy to expand with as Egypt or Brutii on any of the harder settings.

Carthage is difficult mainly due to the number of enemies they face head on.. Macedon have access to Light Lancers (one of the best units in the game), which makes their expansion a lot of fun, especially if you love Cav!

Marquis of Roland

06-27-2005, 21:42

This Brutii faction is too easy.

I've so far played the Julii, Seleucids, Carthage, and Germania (H/H) and I have to say that playing as Brutii is by far the easiest go at the campaign I've had.

I launched a campaign into Greece with not even my faction leader. My invading army had 4 hastati, 2 velites, 1 equite, and my general. Halfway through my campaign I reinforced this army with another 2 hastati. By 260B.C. the whole of Greece was mine. I killed three Macedonian kings and 2 Greek kings (all of which had at least 5 stars or more) who commanded armies of 10+ units each.

There were a couple times when I thought that the Macedonians had me (they assaulted my small army in Thermon with 9 light lancers, 4 levy pikemen, and 2 macedonian cav) and the greeks (2 spartans(?), 8 armored hoplites, 4 hoplites) but I destroyed them all with just 5 hastati and 2 equites!

Playing as other factions and then going back to play a Roman faction, you can see just how overpowered the Romans are. I mean, the hastati's attack is only 7 but their defense is 16!?! I stretched the hastati into nice thick blocks and they took those light lancer charges like champs, surrounded them and chopped them up. Even with a low attack rating these guys just don't die and eventually they just outlast you. To think of all the headaches I've had using iberian infantry and libyan infantry while playing carthage.... and all the casualties I suffered when I was german.....

The money situation is not even funny. I've been giving away 100,000 denarii every other year to Germans (I tried to get to the Seleucids but they were attacked by 5 or 6 factions right in the beginning and wiped out). Soon I would have to give away 150,000 a year or so. Those concentration of wonders around Greece makes it an even easier game than say, if you played as Julii.

I am building as many fleets and as many armies as I want, and I am not even denting my income. This faction is way too overpowered, esp. how fast you're able to blitz Greece (the cities are so close together and the area so mountainous there is never more than two ways into any greek city). Hastati are great starting troops (I think they're more versatile than spear warband, but those two units are the best starters I think), and Roman generals never seem to die as easily as say German or Carthaginian generals in melee.

This should definitely be the first faction you play, its easy and fun (fun for a beginner at any rate).

pezhetairoi

06-28-2005, 05:27

I'm in the first 20 turns of the Brutii and I've been having a hard time trying to balance economic and miltiary development. Making about 2-3k a turn, but it's not enough because I'm trying to raise a third army in addition to the two I already have. I guess the problem will be alleviated over the next few turns because I've just conquered Carthage and Lilybaeum. Now I'm concentrating for a two-prong attack on Greece and Macedon. I'm trying a new approach in this game, keeping my armies to a minimum and bribing what else I can't fight, while 'fighting dispersed'. I'm only going to conquer coastal provinces this time, before going on to the rest of the continents.

Marquis of Roland

06-28-2005, 18:16

The senate will give you $10,000 everytime you take a good size city for them. Thats how I blitzed Greece, they kept giving me senate missions in the area. And after I had the greek cities I didn't have to worry about money anymore.

pezhetairoi

06-29-2005, 00:53

Ah. Damn the senate, all they said was I would be rewarded with a unit for Larissa, so I didn't bother. I can conquer Greece well enough with my principes. >.

Imperator

06-29-2005, 16:18

The Brutii have the most room to expand, what with Greece, then Asia Minor, then Syria, and finally Egypt. (Not to mention Dacia and Thrace, if you're in the mood for it) And their temples are simply too good. One (Juno) halves culture penalty and reduces squalor, another (Mercury) increases trade like nobody's business, and good old Mars gives you veteran soldiers right off the bat. Thier campaign is fun, but really best for beginners because it's easy (even on VH/VH) and lets you fight all kinds of different people.

By the way, I downloaded the patch 1.2 and now suddenly all my men have pencil arms and pencil feet, does anyone know how to solve that problem? (I've tried changing the unit detail, it didn't work ~:confused: )

Gunboat

06-29-2005, 21:30

Just started a new Brutii game with the idea to immediately strike at Sparta. After doing that, Macedon left their seige at Athens, so I got Athens too. I then made peace with Greece to generate some trade $ as I was having cash flow problems. (The town the senate wanted me to take, appoleona (sp?) was taken by Macedon, so the senate told me not to worry abou it)

What is the best course of action from this point? Greece is crippled, but not dead. Macedon has made some minor expansion, but did not get Athens. Should I wipe Greece out completely first - then attack Macedon, or should I just proceed up the Balkans fighting both and ignoring the greek cities not in the Balkans? Thoughts?

pezhetairoi

06-30-2005, 04:50

By the way, I downloaded the patch 1.2 and now suddenly all my men have pencil arms and pencil feet, does anyone know how to solve that problem? (I've tried changing the unit detail, it didn't work ~:confused: )

I believe Craterus posted a thread about it in the Colosseum quite a long time ago, months if I recall, you may want to look into the archives to see if you can find it? There was a solution.

YAKOBU

06-30-2005, 10:17

Hello there Imperator ~:wave:

At work at the moment but just checked the Com and suggestion was to unclick "unit shaders" in the advanced video option menu.

Hope this helps :charge:

Garvanko

06-30-2005, 11:00

What is the best course of action from this point? Greece is crippled, but not dead. Macedon has made some minor expansion, but did not get Athens. Should I wipe Greece out completely first - then attack Macedon, or should I just proceed up the Balkans fighting both and ignoring the greek cities not in the Balkans? Thoughts?

Take out Macedon right up to Bylazora. then go for the Greeks at Rhodes and the Rebel city above it. That should make you nigh on unstoppable.

Of course try to take them all out before they upgrade to stone walls. Leave Pergamnun fo a while if you want to avoid an early conflict with Pontus.

Marquis of Roland

06-30-2005, 16:38

Gunboat

06-30-2005, 16:45

Take out Macedon right up to Bylazora. then go for the Greeks at Rhodes and the Rebel city above it. That should make you nigh on unstoppable.

Of course try to take them all out before they upgrade to stone walls. Leave Pergamnun fo a while if you want to avoid an early conflict with Pontus.

as Macedon elected to declare war on me, this is the plan. Luckily Macedon was kind enough to wait and declare war after my principes were being produced at Sparta. On the downside I have lost two generals already! One in a charge against pirates on crete! (still can not beleive my faction leader was killed by pirates!) The other was killed by macedonian light lancers outside of Cornth.

sunsmountain

07-04-2005, 00:58

The Julii seem to have the weakest temples, especially since bacchus causes drinking traits in your governors...

I would say Brutii is my favorite faction of all. Why becuz they have nice Temple bonuses but too bad not the Neptune. Having a few Mars Temples for recruiting, one for Juno to train your governors/generals then the rest is Mercury.

They get the +3 exp temple of Mars line. This is great. Also, their position is nice for an easy ride into Greece and the riches of the east.

Gauls. I hate Gauls. Even before they poked out my father's eyes...

ok Brutii may have Greece, rich indeed, but
Julii has the best temple. The pantheon to Epona is better than the Pantheon to Mars, purely combat speaking:

Julii
Pantheon Epona:
25% Happiness
XP Bonus 5

Brutii
Pantheon Mars:
25% Happiness
XP Bonus 3
Morale 1
Health 10%
Trade Goods 2

where 1 XP used to be +1 attack +1 defense (nondirection dependent) +2 morale, where a morale value of 6-10 is average.

Morale 1 could mean morale +2, so that Epona +5 att +5 def +10 morale is probably better than +3 att +3 def +8 morale.

Bulawayo

07-04-2005, 10:18

As someone mentioned in another thread, there is no pantheon of Epona. The gauls can build sacred circle of Epona (level 3), while Julii can't build that at all. If I as Julii would conquer a gaul city with that temple I would keep it though. :charge:

Edit: And then I saw that it is actually possible to upgrade the sacred circle of Epona to level 4 and level 5 temples as Julii, and as all romans in 1.2
I must not claim to know things I dont know :embarassed:

sunsmountain

07-09-2005, 00:41

@Bulawayo

When in doubt, i usually let post count decide ~:)

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kosmos
Posts: 4

Kosmos, where is that?

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 170

'nuff said.

Warnings Level: 1

ignore this part (!) ...

katank

07-09-2005, 03:21

Note that it's not just Julii that can build Epona Pantheons. Any Roman factions can. Just storm northern Italy and choke off the Julii expansion. Then the Brutii shall have the mighty horse temple too.

Waiting for the Gauls to build a Sacred Circle of Epona can be extremely infurtiating though. They seem to like Abnoda and Teutatis instead. Grrr. I usually win before 240BC so these ultra late temples are a moot point.

pezhetairoi

07-11-2005, 02:57

I took down the Egyptians in 12 turns flat, most of it spent on movement! 4 grand armies stormed Alexandria, Sidon, Antioch and Memphis in the first wave, then Damascus, Salamis, Thebes and Jerusalem, and then Bostra, Siwwa, Petra and Cyrene in the third! And all this because of the careful planning of strategically built forts and the activity of my diplomatic shock troops that ensured the campaign went without a hitch. I was faced by a grand total (throughout the course of the campaign) with the equivalent of one and a half full-stacks distributed across 12 settlements. How's that?

Bulawayo

07-14-2005, 11:33

sunsmountain

When in doubt I usually prefer doing some research instead of just listening to the authorities ~;)

Sometimes it does happen that I'm not in doubt although I'm wrong, but that's life I guess. The only time I have played as Julii I wiped out the Gauls so fast I wasn't able to see the upgrade from Sacred circle to Awesome temple. I believe they didn't even had any sacred circles of Epona...

Take care amigo ~:cheers:

Craterus

07-15-2005, 19:50

Let post count decide? Everyone should get the same respect here, regardless of their post count. ~D

Sir Toma of Spain

07-17-2005, 23:53

here here ~:cheers:

Seamus Fermanagh

07-18-2005, 00:43

I concur.

Bashing a relative "noob," even when they're incorrect, does not encourage broader discussion.

"Post count," of itself, proves only that you have time to write e-mail.

Info on "taking over" foreign temples was new to me, and an interesting concept.

pezhetairoi

07-18-2005, 01:12

Nobody ought to noob-bash. Alright, a little sarcasm perhaps is warranted, but openly attacking him is just unethical. Even bribing is more honourable.

Mahrabals apprentice

07-18-2005, 14:39

We were all noobs once, some of us still are ~D

Franconicus

07-18-2005, 15:56

The difference in our knowledge is small, our ignorance is even :bow:

pezhetairoi

07-19-2005, 01:20

yah, we're all human... we all make mistakes from time to time. Like that time I violated my cardinal rule and sent my generals careening into the armoured hoplite line...

bubbanator

07-22-2005, 04:45

Noob-bashing is FUN! Yay! err....I mean...It's a terrible thing to do...

Sorry, I just had to say that...

On to the subject. I am just wrapping up a great campaign with the Brutii. At the begining, I stole someones idea to have 'expiditionary armies' to go save the Selucids. I sent a half stack over to Sidon, which was controled by the Egyptians. I took the city and built up my armies. I had to keep my economy going at home so I took Sparta, Athens, Corinth, and Larissa. I focused on economy at first, then troop upgrades. Over in Sidon, I built up 2 large armies and proceded to lay waste to the egyptian empire. I gave all of the land except for modern-day egypt to the Selucids. Memphis, Thebes, and Alexandria, I gave to the Numidians.

O, I forgot to mention that I had taken Carthage and Thapsus and allied with the Numidians and Selucids. The Numidians had expanded and once I gave them egypt, they had all of North Africa except for Carthage and Thapsus (my cities).

Things were going well until the Selucids and the Numidians decided to backstab me on the same turn. I defended Carthage from the Numidians and then destroyed their other army that was coming. Then i just forgot about them.

The Selucid Empire, on the other hand, was like my baby. A baby that needed to be punished. I built up an army and took Antioch. I also built up an all cavalry army and went out on seek-and-destroy. This was my favorite part of the campaign. I had my best general and his son together figting with a mix of equites and merc cavalry. I went out and defeated no less that 7 full stack armies and countless others against half stacks. Cavalry, eles, charriots, phalanxes...they were all slaughtered. My general eventualy had 10 stars and was a 'cavalry commander of genius.' I had only heard of this trait before, never had I even gotten a 'skilled cavalry commander' trait before. I couldn't believe it. Anyways, once the remaining armies had went to hide in their cities, I went on an assasination spree. I built 8 assasians and went and started killing family members left and right. All but 2 of my assasians were killed but those 2 became 9 point 'eye' thingy...

Any family member i saw traveling that my assasians couldn't take out (faction leader and heir) I just went and killed with my cav army. Evidently, I didn't kill every family member because they were still alive but something more important had come up.

The Marius Event. I had never before seen this happen in my game before. I knew full well about it but I always beat the game too fast. I really wanted to start the civil wars. However, I only had like 15 provinces so I didn't have much popular support. I had built up huge, super-armies of upgraded Early and regular Legionary Cohorts and my Princepes (sp) that were left over. I also had some onagers. I set up my armies around all of the starting cities of all of the Roman factions as well as all of Sicily. (I had already taken Syracuse at the begining of the game)

I got my 10 eye point thingy super assasian over to Rome and tried to assasinate some of the family members. My assasian kept missing his targets. Over and over. I tried him on the Scipii faction heir and he killed him fine. I tried again on the Senate faction leader. He had a five percent chance. He died trying and I was outlawed. YES!!! Time to kill everyone :duel:

That same turn, I sprung my trap, I beseiged 5 cities in one turn. I waited to build some seige towers even though I had my onagers (I don't trust them against stone walls). The next turn, I captured all of the cities. That one turn took me an hour and a half...

Because I had taken Carthage and Thapsus early, the Scipii had decided to land in Greece and take several settlements there. I built up and took some of those out. Over in France, I had taken the last of the Julii cities. I eventualy got the Scipii down to one city. That was a great battle...

Anyways, Thrace had taken over the rest of Greece in the power vacum that I had made when I didn't take Greece. I attacked them and took most of their settlements. I also went into Turkey to take Pergarium and the two cities to the south.

That is where I am at right now. 44 settlements and counting. It has been a very staisfying campaign.

A few notes:

The upgraded generals bodygaurds that you get after the Marius Reforms beat the pants off of the regular ones. I find myself using them a whole lot more now.

a Pantheon to Mars combined with a foundry makes for some troops that are so good, it's almost unfair. I mean, from Rome I am pumping out First Legionary Cohorts with 4 xp, and +2 to armor and weapons. Now I can just steamroll over the Britons who killed the stupid Gauls.

I intended for this to be a short post but o well...

pezhetairoi

07-22-2005, 09:34

I can't empathise with anything but the Roman civil war part, because NO campaign I've ever played has ever given me the marian reforms until AFTER all the other romans are under oath of fealty to me...

But yeah, springing traps is fun! I like your style :-) A fellow blitzkrieger after my own hungry heart.

But well, I don't use assassins. I prefer to use diplomats and a lot of money on them. They're so much more useful on MY side of the battleline. All cav armies are fun to create! You can completely paralyse one enemy faction and fix his armies in place with one fast ranging cav army that splits and combines to menace different cities. Of course, keeping settlements besieged is an extremely valuable thing since it means any units he loses, he can't rebuild. Never mind if he sallies out to break your siege, just resume the siege again--he will never build be able to build anything. Seriously.

^_^

As to noob-bashing, well...'nuff said. :)

bubbanator

07-22-2005, 15:48

Yes, the campaign I just finished has been a first in many aspects. I had never built assasians ever before, I had never seen the Marius reforms before, and I had never used an all cavalry army before.

My cavalry army eventualy got a unit of merc elephants. That was helpful. I just went and destroyed every city that still had a wooden wall.

And about the bribery, I rarely bribe anyone, but the other Romans, well, I would rather have them fight for me than for me to have to kill them all. I actualy didn't have enough troops to strike the Julii lands because they had so many armies right at the top of Italy. I had just left one full stack to ward off any Julii incursions. I was trying to get a ceasefire so that I could finish my operations in the southern half without interuption. I sent a diplomat to Arretium and they refused my ceasefire but I did notice that I could bribe the city and the 3/4 stack army inside it for only 70,000. Not exactly pocket change but it was quite a deal. After I had the city, army pushed north and finished off the Julii.

Alexanderofmacedon

09-19-2005, 02:08

Yeah, I just entered war with all the Roman factions (as Brutii). I'm also at war with Thrace. An other scary thought...

Garvanko

10-09-2005, 16:01

Its a bit worrying when all they do is sit there on Sicily or Italy and spend 50 years building five or six full stacks just because the AI can't figure out how to expand. This is the legacy of v1.3.

Nevertheless, my current Brutii campaign is going swimmingly; the temple bonuses from Mars and Juno is particular making sure I have both excellent managers at Croton, Thessalonica (vital) and Larissa, and strong armies at Tarentum and Thermon. Temples of Mercury at Apollonia, Sparta and Athens are also doing wonders for my economy. Have expanded into Greece, taken most of Macedonia and I am now considering moving on into barbarian territory - a first for me with Brutii as usually I prefer to go for the richer rewards in Persia, Egypt and Carthaginian Africa. This new approach however, is in response to the growing threat of Gaul and Germania (a beneficiary of the new patch, perhaps?) - whom the Julii seem incapable of dealing with - both of whom are expanding rapidly in the north.

Thessalonica (always a sicknote) has my best troops - including Triarii - so it should prove an excellent staging ground for my assault on northern Europe and the balkans.

Its 240BC, and Croton is ten years away from an Imperial Palace, and the Marian Reforms. Yay.

rotorgun

10-10-2005, 17:03

Any ideas for fighting the Brittanic hordes?

In my current Brutii campaign I followed the usual strategy of attacking Greece first, followed by the Macedonians. Than I expanded to the north and east, embroiling my armies in a biiter contest against Thrace and Dacia. Other than taking Sardis, and Rhodes, a result of my war with Greece, I've pretty much left the rest of Anatolia alone for now. It is currently controlled by Pontus. I will use these cities to springboard my invasion of the Pontic provinces later when I see that they are thoroughly engaged with Epypt.

To put some cap on the Scipii, I follwed up on a request by the Senate to help them early on by blockading Syracuse by actally taking control of the city, giving me a base in which to strike them when civil war breaks out. In a similar effort to block Julii expansion. I decided to to head northwest into Gallic lands and take some of the regions that would normally fall to them by default. This has worked well, limiting the Julii to only seven total provinces.Spain is a protectorate of theirs, but that is about to change with the adept use of diplomacy in the future. This leads me to my contact with the British.

While busy fighting in the balkans, it seems that Brittania proceeded to conquer almost all of Western Europe. Attempting to move into what I thought was a rebel province in Gual, I discovered it was actually British. Their army attacked before I could withdraw and the war was on. In this case their armies seem to have enourmous experience ratings, as do their Generals. They also have good armor and weapons upgrades. I guess this was a by-product of their defeating the Germans and developing the right buildings.

My armies don't have anywhere near the level of experience or armor. The only way I can beat a large British force is to have at least two armies involved, which means giving control of one of them to the computer. I realized only too late that I did not build any temples of Mars. I opted for temples of Mercury instead as it really boosts the economy.

Any suggestions for dealing with these Britons? Does the AI always have more units than twenty allowed in an army? I always seem to be coming up against these huge AI armies.

Rotorgun ~:confused:

Garvanko

10-10-2005, 18:18

Garvanko

10-10-2005, 21:11

rotorgun

10-11-2005, 03:34

Hmmm.. no temple of Mars? Not even one? ~:confused: Not good, especially with Brutii. But... salvageable.

I suggest you destroy a couple of mercury temples in middle level towns near the front and build new mars ones. You may have the numbers, but you need experience, and you need it quickly. It should take six turns to get to level three temple of Mars, during which time you might decide to play defensive against the Brits. Keep big stacks together in case they they attack, so you are not outnumbered, and push more troops up to the front, preferebly first through your new Mars enhanced cities, where you should retrain them as quickly and efficiently as possible.

From there you should be able to launch a stiffer reposte to British delusions of grandeur. :duel:

Thanks to Garvanko!~:)

I have taken your advice and am now on the defensive in the northwest against them. It is getting tough as I feel the need to expand in Anatolia for about seven more provinces. I currently own 31. Civil war with the other Roman factions looms on the horizon, as my popularity with the people has gone sky high. I've been ecouraged to march on Rome at least a half dozen times already, but I have to conclude this war with the British without leaving them strong once the Civil war commences. The Senate has assigned me to take Samarobriva, which is cholked full of British suoerior units. I have my assasins working overtime killing off family members and destroying enemy buildings. It must be hurting them as they have started a counter assasin campaign.

All that aside, do you offer any good tactical advice for fighting Brittanic armies? They come at one fast in extended line that at times it seems the traditional Roman three line approach gives up too much of the flank. How do you approach this?

Appreciative,

Rotorgun :bow:

Garvanko

10-12-2005, 11:42

All that aside, do you offer any good tactical advice for fighting Brittanic armies? They come at one fast in extended line that at times it seems the traditional Roman three line approach gives up too much of the flank. How do you approach this?

Don't use a traditional three line apporach. Match them up in a line with your infantry (guard mode), with archer auxilia supporting from behind on skirmish. Then target their chariots with your Roman and Missile cavalry and skirmishers. AI chariots tend to charge alot, so keep them occupied while your Cohorts deal with their swordsmen and warbands.

It would however be best to attack them in their settlements where there is less space for their chariots, rather than in the field.

Im fast coming up to a confrontation with the Brits in my Brutii campaign so hopefully we'll be toasting victory together in Londinium soon!

rotorgun

10-12-2005, 13:30

Don't use a traditional three line apporach. Match them up in a line with your infantry (guard mode), with archer auxilia supporting from behind on skirmish. Then target their chariots with your Roman and Missile cavalry and skirmishers. AI chariots tend to charge alot, so keep them occupied while your Cohorts deal with their swordsmen and warbands.

It would however be best to attack them in their settlements where there is less space for their chariots, rather than in the field.

Im fast coming up to a confrontation with the Brits in my Brutii campaign so hopefully we'll be toasting victory together in Londinium soon!

Thanks again Garvanko,

I will take your advice, and even practice such tactics on the Custom Battle Mode before taking it to them. This will be after I properly train my cohorts and archers upon the completion of my awesome temple of Mars.I think you may be right about besieging them in their settlements. I guess I preferr to draw them out into the field and weaken them in open battle. The survivors will retreat to the village where I can deal with them easier. (At least that's the plan)~:confused:

Anyway, thanks again for such good advive.

rotorgun

"It is well that War is so terrible...else we should grow to fond of it."- Robert E. Lee

Garvanko

10-12-2005, 13:56

rotorgun

10-12-2005, 15:20

Soften them up before you enter the settlement with your archers - auxilia are excellent marksmen. Then drive in with your cohorts and cavalry.

I agree it is tempting to deal with them on the field, but believe me, a bit of practice with Seige tactics, and you'll soon be good at both! If they don't have spears or strong infantry, then shock them with Cav once you break down the gate, then bring in the infantry.

As we say in the army,
Hoooah!

Good luck to you as well in your campaign,

rotorgun

"...the general must niether be so undecided that he entirely distrusts himself, nor so obstinate as not to think that anyone can have a better idea...for such a man...is bound to make many mistakes" - Onasander

Alexanderofmacedon

10-12-2005, 15:26

I was in the middle of a Brutii campiagn in which I was about to rule the world. Then BI came and I quit it, and now am playing as different BI factions!~:)

rotorgun

10-13-2005, 18:10

Germania offered me a gift!!!! :dizzy2:

I'd just ended our alliance by siding with the Brits. Two turns later, Germania offered me 154 denarii and the 'reassurance that our friendship would endure despite the end of our alliance' or something along those lines..

Never seen the AI do that before. Hell, never been offered a gift before, measly though this one was.

Naturally, in my excitment, I accepted.

This brutii campaign rocks!

After looking this post over again for a second time, I realized that it is not such a strange occurence. This also happened to me once before during my first Julii campaign. Essentially, Britannia must be as big a threat to Germania as are the Romans. After all, aside from the Gauls, the British are the most likley competition for all that trade to be had along the Atlantic and Baltic coasts. The Germans are probably anxious to preserve a peace. You could probably exploit this situation to gain more consessions from them. I would be prepared for a change of positions, however, as soon as Germania rebuilds its strength. They certainly stabbed me in the back as soon as I started to expand across the channel.

Your right Garvanko, the Brutii are a hoot to play!

Rotorgun

GreatEmperor

10-13-2005, 19:23

You guys always say a civil war looms on the horizon, but I've found another way to complete the campaign. Take 49 or more provinces (not one of any other Roman Factions but you can close them in if you want by taking cities around theirs) and then lay siege to Rome. In my case the Julii helped destroying Rome as they attacked me with 2 cavalry units when I was laying siege. I played very offensive that battle and before the Senate reinforcements arrived, I killed the 2 Julii units. That's how I got Rome. If you want to take Rome the same way as I did, make sure there's a small Julii or Scipii stack near, they will attack you and if you're quick you can get Rome without much casualties and without much of a fight.

rotorgun

10-14-2005, 00:46

You guys always say a civil war looms on the horizon, but I've found another way to complete the campaign. Take 49 or more provinces (not one of any other Roman Factions but you can close them in if you want by taking cities around theirs) and then lay siege to Rome.

Well said GE. It is a good idea to follow such a strategy if the Roman Senate doesn't ask you to kill off your faction leader, or declare war on you as you become more of a threat. That's what happened in my Jullii campaign, and when I refused to order his death, the Senate declared war. Sometimes I also get impatient by taking on so many other factions to avoid the civil war. If I see that my chances to win the war are good "Alea ecta est!" (Ceaser), the die is cast. What steps do you take to prevent the other Roman factions from initiating a war with you?

Rotorgun

GreatEmperor

10-14-2005, 16:20

Well if I got lots of money, I give gifts to them, but if I haven't got much money I try to complete many Senate missions as in my game they always give me missions like: block the port of Scallabis. They are easy to complete and because my playing style is very offensive (I'm at war with almost everyone on my border), I don't get war with allies or neutral factions I don't want war with.

It might be a bit confusing but that's because my English isn't very good.

Garvanko

10-14-2005, 21:32

I never give the AI gifts. Whats the point? Will it ever reciprocate? How many gifts have you ever received from it? ~:handball:

I just let it expand as and where it sees fit, and Im seeing the benefits in what should be an terrific endgame in my Brutii campaign. Basically, Im wiping the floor with the Germans having decided to expand northwards. The Ponts control the east, the Egyptians and Numidians control the desert, while Spain and Britainnia are strong in the west. Im worried about Pontus though.. their massive expansion westwards through Russia may prove a critical phase in the game - Ive been fortifying my structures in preparation for what looks like inevitable confrontation. :argue:

Germania is down to 3 provinces, so I might start thinking about a ceasefire. Best to keep Britannia at armslength for now (although I am allied with them), especially if, as is increasingly likely, the Civil war erupts, and my attention is diverted to italy, where about 15 full stack Senate, Scipii and Julii armies lie in wait. ~:)

GreatEmperor

10-15-2005, 08:56

I never give the AI gifts. Whats the point? Will it ever reciprocate? How many gifts have you ever received from it?

The point in giving gifts to the Senate is that they think you're a good friend and so you can postpone the Civil War to any time you like.

Garvanko

10-15-2005, 11:45

Im actually having enough trouble trying to start the civil war, let alone end it. Ive assassinated countless Scipii captains and family members, Ive refused senate missions, I've expanded rapidly and now hold 28 provinces (hopefully 30 will trigger the war), and Ive built up about five full stacks on the Italian peninsula and placed them on Scipii territory - a transgression of course. Ive also cancelled trade rights with the Julii, just to hold down their own belated expansion into Europe.

Both my senate and mob approval are level pegging at the moment at +7, so its a case of tipping the balance in favour of the mob in th enext few turns.

Its a race between my Brutii and Pontus to see who can get to 50 first. Now that's a first!

Its 185 BC.

bubbanator

10-15-2005, 14:17

If you are trying to start the civil war, have armies outside all of the major cities in Italy, then when you are ready, have assasians try to take out the Senate faction leader or heir. Once your assasian is killed in the attempt, the civil war will start and your armies will take all of Italy (hopefully)

GreatEmperor

10-15-2005, 16:48

Well, if you expand rapidly the citizens will love you and you'll get a message that they want you instead of the senate. At that point just attack another Roman Faction you like and the Civil War will begin.

And Bubbanator: I don't know if I'm the only one but when I try to take out the Senate Faction Leader or Heir or General they may fail but they never get killed in action. It's very strange but I may Assassins seem indestructible. They only die if they grow old.

Kralizec

10-15-2005, 17:01

Better is to get a diplomat to cancel your alliance with one of the Roman factions, wich will start the war too. The reason why this is better is that if you attack an ally you'll have a harder time getting alliances in the future.

GreatEmperor

10-15-2005, 17:26

A Question: what's the use of an Alliance?

Garvanko

10-15-2005, 20:05

Better is to get a diplomat to cancel your alliance with one of the Roman factions, wich will start the war too.

Er.. Ive been unaligned with the other Roman factions since turn 10. Its now 182 BC, and there isn't even a sniff of a civil war.

Well, if you expand rapidly the citizens will love you and you'll get a message that they want you instead of the senate. At that point just attack another Roman Faction you like and the Civil War will begin.

I expanded slowly so I could explore more aspects of the game (particulalry economic and cultural) and make good use of the marian reforms. Plus, whats the rush? ~:)

Kralizec

10-15-2005, 20:26

A Question: what's the use of an Alliance?

Not that much. Allies are less inclined to attack you obviously, but will still do it if they think it's a good idea, particularily if you share a large border. However, my playstile is that I honorably stay loyal to my allies and should they betray me, I hunt them down mercilessly:charge:
It makes for a longer and more challenging game then if you just seized every opportunity for quick conquests.

GreatEmperor

10-16-2005, 08:38

I expanded slowly so I could explore more aspects of the game (particulalry economic and cultural) and make good use of the marian reforms. Plus, whats the rush?

The problem here was that he couldn't get to the point of the game where you can attack the other roman factions. And if you rush your standard with the citizens will grow very high and you can attack them early.

rotorgun

10-16-2005, 18:08

A Question: what's the use of an Alliance?

Hey there Ya'll,

Sorry I haven't been able to get back into the discussion in awhile; I had to perform my weekend drill duties. I thought I might add in a little comment about this question from the GE.

I have found in my campaign that making alliances with as many factions early on, as per the advice of both Quietus' and Frogbeastegg's guides to the game, provides for a little more flexibility in my strategy. I have been able to expand my initial trade rights/map information deals early on to gaining some fairly solid allies. Through such relationships I have been able to ecourage Pontus to attack Eygypt earlier than I anticipated the AI would do so. This has caused Pontus to commit vast rescources in the east which will weaken their western defenses enabling me an opportunity to attack them when the time is right.

Spain has been a loyal ally for sometime and has agreed to assist me against Britannia for a moderate sum. I hope to get them to attack the Julli after my war with Britain. This will be a diplomatic coup as they are currently a Julii protectorate. If I can pull it off, it will definately help me when I engage the Roman factions for the win in the endgame.

I am glad that this game includes the more subtle diplomatic approaches that can be taken in the management of imperial power. It definately adds period flavor to the contest.

Well, gotta go....Rotorgun

Garvanko

10-16-2005, 18:50

War!!! :charge:

Took Perguman and Halicarnass from Pontus which gave me enough support from the mob to start the Civil war, which I promptly did by attacking the Scipii.

Neverthess, Im also now at war with the Brits.

Anyone ever seen a Legionary Cavalry unit get routed by a british General's chariot unit, where the General's unit attacked by encircling and mercilessly running rings around the Cav unit? Never seen anything like it - it was like they were caught in a mixer. There is no escape from this, by the way. Its like fighting to the death, except you can't respond at all.

Craterus

10-16-2005, 21:08

rotorgun

10-17-2005, 04:22

I've finally conceded and given up on BI.

I'm playing RTW 1.0 and playing as the Brutii. It's 263 AD, and I own Appolonia, Croton, Tarentum, Lilybauem and Thapsus. I was hoping to steal Syracuse but the Scipii beat me there. Now heading towards Carthage, but I fear that the Scipii will beat me there too.

More as it comes in..

Hello Craterus,

It sounds like you are having a good start. It's alright that the Scipii have Syracuse for now, as long as you continue to hold Lilybauem from Carthage, it should give you a toe-hold to prevent the Scipii from taking all of Sicily. It is essential to keep them from controlling Sicily in the late game. I would advise on making peace with Carthage, however. A war with Carthage will invite periously long lines of supply. Let the Scipii fight the elephants for now. You can always blockade them in Africa by cutting them off from the mainland later.Concentrate your strategy against the weaker Greek Cities, followed by the Macedonians. This will win you many advantages such as:

1. Building a great economy through the expanded Agean trade.

2. Acess to great port facilities with which to dominate the sea lanes of the afore-mentioned ocean.

3. A strong central position from which you can expand your empire east or north with, what we call in the military, good interior lines of communications.

Of course, If you are commited to an African extravaganza, be sure to make peace with the Greeks to ensure that your overseas expidition is not attacked by their navy. They are bound to be pissed off that another Roman faction took Syracuse from them, and this can be exploited to give you an ally against Egypt, or the Scipii, with whom you are bound to fight sooner or later.

Good luck,

Rotorgun

rotorgun

10-17-2005, 04:48

War!!! :charge:

Anyone ever seen a Legionary Cavalry unit get routed by a british General's chariot unit, where the General's unit attacked by encircling and mercilessly running rings around the Cav unit? Never seen anything like it - it was like they were caught in a mixer. There is no escape from this, by the way. Its like fighting to the death, except you can't respond at all.

Now you have an understanding of the power of an experienced British war chief! I have also had the pleasure of seeing this type of attack rout my Legionary horse on its way to rescue the Legionary Cohort unit that was just moments before routed by the charge of this tough 8 star leader. All this while watching my entire infantry line pack up and leave the battle after being attacked by the acompanying 3 cheveron, silver sword and shield Chosen Swordsmen, and Warrior Band infantry. This is why I was so keen to have an awsome temple of Mars.

By the way, after failing to take Sambrobiva in the time alloted me by the Senate, the Julii took advantage of my careful assassin campaign, which caused this city to rebel, to just move on in....'Good grief Charlie Brown!' I had to admire the AI for its seeming sense of humor.

I live for this game!~D

GreatEmperor

10-17-2005, 08:16

I've found out something so you can get a city without casualties. Example:
In my campaign the Scipii where laying siege to a Numidian city. I sended an army over there with 2 onagers. I then divided the Army in 2 pieces: The 2 onagers and the rest. The Scipii where still laying siege to the city and they had a lot more soldiers than the Numidians did. I attacked the city with the 2 onagers and the Scipii came as reinforcements. I destroyed the gate and they took the city, but because I attacked it and they were only reinforcements, the city was mine. I quickly moved the rest of the army in so that they wouldn't rebel.

That's a great way for capturing cities that one of your allies is laying siege to.

Garvanko

10-17-2005, 09:17

Now you have an understanding of the power of an experienced British war chief! I have also had the pleasure of seeing this type of attack rout my Legionary horse on its way to rescue the Legionary Cohort unit that was just moments before routed by the charge of this tough 8 star leader. All this while watching my entire infantry line pack up and leave the battle after being attacked by the acompanying 3 cheveron, silver sword and shield Chosen Swordsmen, and Warrior Band infantry. This is why I was so keen to have an awsome temple of Mars.

Yes, they are uberstrong, I admit. But completely lost against missile troops. In that battle, I withdrew all my infantry and attacked with my archers and skirmishers, and eventually just wore the down till they routed. There were Chosen Swordsmen in that British army as well.

Seamus Fermanagh

10-17-2005, 14:24

This will win you many advantages such as:

1. Building a great economy through the expanded Agean trade.

2. Acess to great port facilities with which to dominate the sea lanes of the afore-mentioned ocean.

3. A strong central position from which you can expand your empire east or north with, what we call in the military, good interior lines of communications.

Of course, If you are commited to an African extravaganza, be sure to make peace with the Greeks to ensure that your overseas expidition is not attacked by their navy.

Crater:

What RG is advocating here is, of course, the orthodox Brutii approach. It's a classic precisely because it makes so much long-term sense.

You seem to have begun a Scippii spoiler campaign, trying to take the wind out of their sails by getting their targets first. Nice strat, but you appear to have been a touch slow off the mark. Since you're there, taking Carthage can annoy the Scips further, so go ahead, but enslave, recruit cool mercs, disassemble buildings for cash and give it to the Julies. The Scips won't attack them either and then YOU don't have to deal with the constant rebellions etc. To annoy the other factions further you might then fleet up to Sardinia and Massilia (if the future Caesers aren't there yet), take them, keep Sardinia but give Massilia to the Scips. Same kind of roadblock.

In the long run (if not as immediately as RG is suggesting) though, you should head back to the Aegean. Once it is your trade lake, you really do end up with a hammerlock. It may be the orthodox strategy, but it is so for a reason.

rotorgun

10-18-2005, 15:27

Crater:

What RG is advocating here is, of course, the orthodox Brutii approach. It's a classic precisely because it makes so much long-term sense.

You seem to have begun a Scippii spoiler campaign, trying to take the wind out of their sails by getting their targets first. Nice strat, but you appear to have been a touch slow off the mark. Since you're there, taking Carthage can annoy the Scips further, so go ahead, but enslave, recruit cool mercs, disassemble buildings for cash and give it to the Julies. The Scips won't attack them either and then YOU don't have to deal with the constant rebellions etc. To annoy the other factions further you might then fleet up to Sardinia and Massilia (if the future Caesers aren't there yet), take them, keep Sardinia but give Massilia to the Scips. Same kind of roadblock.

In the long run (if not as immediately as RG is suggesting) though, you should head back to the Aegean. Once it is your trade lake, you really do end up with a hammerlock. It may be the orthodox strategy, but it is so for a reason.

Thanks for the off-hand compliment Seamus. I do have a tendency to play conservatively as I don't have much RTW experience. My predominate experience has been with board wargames, but the general principles of good strategy seem to apply to this game as well. So far in my current Brutii campaign, played in H/H mode, the aforementioned approach has worked for me up to this point. I am a bit stymied as to what to do now however.

The British are almost kicked out of Europe, and I can either attack the Julii to start the civil war early, or invade Anatolia, currently occupied by Pontus (except for Sardis and Rhodes which I own). I think that the right approach is to go for Pontus, as they are currently engaged in a death struggle with Egypt.~:handball:

Any ideas on how I should proceed? And what does "Illegitimi non carborundum" mean? (I don't know alot of Latin unfortunately)

Thanks, RG

Seamus Fermanagh

10-18-2005, 15:55

Thanks for the off-hand compliment Seamus. I do have a tendency to play conservatively as I don't have much RTW experience. My predominate experience has been with board wargames, but the general principles of good strategy seem to apply to this game as well. So far in my current Brutii campaign, played in H/H mode, the aforementioned approach has worked for me up to this point. I am a bit stymied as to what to do now however.

Not meant to be off-handed. An orthodox strategy becomes orthodox because its effective. If you're playing 3R as the krauts, you crunch Poland turn one, you don't attack one block there and go after Yugoslavia. Orthodox is NOT an insult.

The British are almost kicked out of Europe, and I can either attack the Julii to start the civil war early, or invade Anatolia, currently occupied by Pontus (except for Sardis and Rhodes which I own). I think that the right approach is to go for Pontus, as they are currently engaged in a death struggle with Egypt.~:handball:

Starting the CW may not be a bad idea, but if that is your goal then set your defenses elsewhere and pre-set your attack groups to hammer the Julies hard. You'll want to cut them in two to defeat in detail or take a couple of economically crippling locales. Don't overextend at first, of course, since you get visited by lots of roman armies and you'll need to chew them up.

Taking Asia Minor would be sound, and probably a bit safer unless you see a real weak link in the Julies territories, but be sure to establish a strong defense line in the passes for when the horse/chariot boys come after you. If you go this route, consider an expedition around the Black sea to make it an additional trading lake for you.

Wild option: if you have/can build the fleets and forces, a massive assault on all the Eggy home territories might catch them with their forces forward toward Pontus. The Nile do be rich too, if you can stabilize it despite the cultural penalty, and there are some good defensive choke points to either side.

Any ideas on how I should proceed? And what does "Illegitimi non carborundum" mean? (I don't know alot of Latin unfortunately) Thanks, RG

"Never let the bastards grind you down."~:)

Craterus

10-18-2005, 21:10

I got Carthage and Syracuse!!! I bribed the Scipii army sieging Syracuse, and the Scipii were too scared (for lack of of a better word) to siege Carthage. So, I had time to build up an army from Lepcis Magna. With Carthage under my belt, I now have a great trading routes between mainland Italy, Sicily and Carthage/Lepcis Magna. I making lots of money each turn.

I don't want to do the traditional route of the Brutii, I will let the Macedonians get wiped out by the mighty Thracian empire (6 provinces :wow:) :eek: and the similarly struggling Greeks. The Thracians and Dacians both have expanded. Dacia are going at Gaul territory, and Thrace have just stormed southwest.

Although the Senate is willing me to go after the Greeks and Macs, I went after the Dacians (1, in case they get too big for their boots, 2. more interesting route into the Aegean) then I will hit Thrace in their homeland and then take the Aegean.

In the diplomacy, under what the sente thinks of each faction and how they should be treated it says something like: The Dacians are far from our thoughts. We should not be in war, and should try to make an alliance and get friendly relations..

I now own: Tarentum, Croton, Lilybauem, Syracuse (Capital), Lepcis Magna, Appolonia, Segestica and Salona. I am going for Noricum (Dacian) and Aquincum (Dacian).

And if those Numidians (own the rest of Africa as far as egypt) stab me in the back, I swear to hunt them down and kill them all. :evil:

rotorgun

10-18-2005, 21:54

Seamus Fermanagh]Not meant to be off-handed. An orthodox strategy becomes orthodox because its effective. If you're playing 3R as the krauts, you crunch Poland turn one, you don't attack one block there and go after Yugoslavia. Orthodox is NOT an insult.

Appreciate it SF, and your right, standard strategies in most games are a good way to proceed. I am not so obstinate, however that I won't consider a change of plans.

Wild option: if you have/can build the fleets and forces, a massive assault on all the Eggy home territories might catch them with their forces forward toward Pontus. The Nile do be rich too, if you can stabilize it despite the cultural penalty, and there are some good defensive choke points to either side.

A very interesting proposition to take on Egypt. I have, coincidentally, been tempted by the idea already as Pontus has been a fairly loyal ally so far.(We have killed each others spies and assassins a few times ~;)

"Never let the bastards grind you down."~:)

I like this translation!

I'll keep y'all posted about which strategy I take.

Rotorgun

rotorgun

10-18-2005, 22:07

I got Carthage and Syracuse!!! I bribed the Scipii army sieging Syracuse, and the Scipii were too scared (for lack of of a better word) to siege Carthage. So, I had time to build up an army from Lepcis Magna. With Carthage under my belt, I now have a great trading routes between mainland Italy, Sicily and Carthage/Lepcis Magna. I making lots of money each turn.

I don't want to do the traditional route of the Brutii, I will let the Macedonians get wiped out by the mighty Thracian empire (6 provinces :wow:) :eek: and the similarly struggling Greeks. The Thracians and Dacians both have expanded. Dacia are going at Gaul territory, and Thrace have just stormed southwest.

I now own: Tarentum, Croton, Lilybauem, Syracuse (Capital), Lepcis Magna, Appolonia, Segestica and Salona. I am going for Noricum (Dacian) and Aquincum (Dacian).

And if those Numidians (own the rest of Africa as far as egypt) stab me in the back, I swear to hunt them down and kill them all. :evil:

Go for it Craterus!:charge:

I shall follow your campaign to see how much more differently it proceeds compared to the traditional approach. The Dacians and Thracians should be well matched opponents if you can engineer a treaty with one, or the other, and get them to attack each other. After the Dacians are fully engaged you can always break the peace and then hit them. (Beware of their fast moving Horse Archers and Axe wielding Falxmen, for they can be deadly!)

That was a great coup to pull off against the Scipii! What are you planning to attempt to slow down the Julii ? A Spainish province perhaps?

Nike!(Victory!) ~:cheers:

Rotorgun

Garvanko

10-18-2005, 22:54

yes, the carthiginian route is always fun, and immensely profitable of course. ~D

My own campaign is hitting top gear. The civil war looks like it will be a cake walk, which is fine, as it will allow me to concentrate fully on Pontus - it is likely that we will be the only two factions left in the game in around 20 turns or so..

Ive found the most balanced army to be.

2 Generals
4 Roman/Legionary Cavalry
4 Archers Auxilia
8 Legionary Cohorts
2 Urban Cohorts/Onagers

Rome will fall soon, and with it comes First Cohort training facilities. Oh yes!

rotorgun

10-19-2005, 18:18

Ive found the most balanced army to be.

2 Generals
4 Roman/Legionary Cavalry
4 Archers Auxilia
8 Legionary Cohorts
2 Urban Cohorts/Onagers

Rome will fall soon, and with it comes First Cohort training facilities. Oh yes!

This is pretty much what I shoot for also, although I will substitue 2 Auxillary Cavalry for the Roman or Legionary units if I am going to face opposition with Missle/Horse Archer Uuits.

Question: Does the AI always allow one of its big stacks to have more than twenty units? Seems like I'm always facing these huge super-stacks up to one and a half times the normal size of my own. I only usually count no more than twenty enemy units on the battlefield however. Surely a phenomena.

Rotorgun

Craterus

10-19-2005, 19:01

When you view an enemy army (with a spy) their rows are only 9 spaces long (as opposed to the 10 per row for the human-controlled army). Therefore, big armies always have 2 units on a 3rd row. It looks like their armies have more units, but they don't.

On with my Brutii campaign:

I took Noricum but pulled my armies out of the Dacian Empire to deal with a much bigger threat. The Thracian Empire has now taken most of Greece. Macedon are left with Corinth and Athens, and Greece are left with Sparta and Thermon (on the mainland, they do still have Rhodes and Pergamum). All of these cities are poorly garrisoned and easy pickings for the Thracian "horde" that is rampaging through the Balkans.

I took my Dacian army, and piledrived into Bylazora. Only to find 2000 falxmen waiting! :eek:

The army that was protecting North Africa has been sent to deal with the Thracian menace as well. I will try to pincer them at both ends of the Balkan peninsula.

In other news, the Gauls, whilst holding their orginal provinces, are taking land in Spain and it looks like the Julii may have given them enough leway (sp?) for them to run rampage. The Britons are going into the Germanian territory, and the Germanians (large empire) have expanded towards Scythia. It seems the Barbarian Invasion sort of stuff is happening already, except that Rome is still on top. Oh, and surprise surprise, the Egyptians have put the Seleucids down to one city (Seleucia) and it is only 250 BC.

I have a 10 city empire, in 20 years. I know, I am a slow mover but I tihnk it is going OK. I knew I'd have to take the Balkans at some point. But at least the Dacians tasted Roman steel before I did it. 3 generals of theirs down, and I think I've given them a grudge against the Romans, even thoguh they accepted an alliance almost immediately after war.

Garvanko

10-19-2005, 19:25

This is pretty much what I shoot for also, although I will substitue 2 Auxillary Cavalry for the Roman or Legionary units if I am going to face opposition with Missle/Horse Archer Uuits.

I never really use Cavalry Auxilia after the marian reforms. Ive never felt the need to have them in my armies.

Armies however, are dominating my game at the moment. A sea of red Julii and blue Pontic stacks are camped on both my frontiers in Europe and Asia Minor. Its fun, but every battle is a major engagement, and it is taking a lot of time. Im attacking on the western front, and trying to push on to Rome, but the Scipii (by virtue of having never really left Italy all game) have about five stacks sitting next to Capua, while Rome has three stacks of their own. The Julii are sending more down as well, so I need to take Rome soon or there could well be a stalemate on the peninsula.

Pontus is interesting though, and perhaps more dangerous, and as a result Im playing a purely defensive strategy here. They control all of what used to by Scythia, parthia, Armenia, Egypt and of course the Seluecid Empire - they've taken Thapsus as well. I don't think they were too impressed with my incursions into Asia Minor and having taken 4 provinces, and two 'wonders' to boot, i think I've grabbed a little too much of their attention. Around ten of their stacks have made their way down from Persia.

I might give this a few more years and if I take Rome, I'll stop and try the Greeks.

rotorgun

10-19-2005, 20:29

When you view an enemy army (with a spy) their rows are only 9 spaces long (as opposed to the 10 per row for the human-controlled army). Therefore, big armies always have 2 units on a 3rd row. It looks like their armies have more units, but they don't.

Thanks for the insight Craterus. I guess I never noticed this before.

On with my Brutii campaign:

I took Noricum but pulled my armies out of the Dacian Empire to deal with a much bigger threat. The Thracian Empire has now taken most of Greece. Macedon are left with Corinth and Athens, and Greece are left with Sparta and Thermon (on the mainland, they do still have Rhodes and Pergamum). All of these cities are poorly garrisoned and easy pickings for the Thracian "horde" that is rampaging through the Balkans.

I took my Dacian army, and piledrived into Bylazora. Only to find 2000 falxmen waiting! :eek

Aren't those falxmen just wonderful! They can really tear up a cavalry unit if it should happen to misjudge its charge.

The army that was protecting North Africa has been sent to deal with the Thracian menace as well. I will try to pincer them at both ends of the Balkan peninsula.

Does this mean that you have abandoned your North African venture?

I have a 10 city empire, in 20 years. I know, I am a slow mover but I tihnk it is going OK. I knew I'd have to take the Balkans at some point. But at least the Dacians tasted Roman steel before I did it. 3 generals of theirs down, and I think I've given them a grudge against the Romans, even thoguh they accepted an alliance almost immediately after war.

Ten cities in twenty turns is "movin' at a fair pace" in my neck of the woods. I agree that you had to do something about the Thracians however. Perhaps you can give a region back to Dacia in return for trade rights and for their assistance against Thrace? This should give you some "leeway" to reorganize your forces for the coming attack. Beware of the deadly combination of Thracian Heavy Cavalry, Phalanx, and Bastarne infantry combination. Don't underestimate its latent power to disrupt a well formed Roman legion'. They fight a little differently than the Macedonians and Greeks,much faster in the attack, if I remember.

Good luck, and your campaign sounds fascinating!

Rotorgun

Craterus

10-19-2005, 22:17

In fact, it's 10 cities in 40 turns. I have not abandoned North Africa, but I have taken the good force out of there. What remains is Hastati and Town Watch. If the Numidians decide to betray me, I will have to outnumber them since the troop quality isn't great.

I have agreed an alliance with the Dacians, and I hope that they will take the oppurtunity, when I hit them in the Aegean, to take their homelands, which, as I understand are poorly defended. Waaay too many commas in the above sentence. You may need to re-read it ~;).

The Senate has asked me to agree trade with Germania, so I've sent my only diplomat off into the wilderness. I could really do with one in case I need to bribe a Thracian stack. And I could also do with a ceasefire with Carthage and the Greeks. That should keep Carthage off my back, and Greece will be paying out for me protecting them... More as it comes in, and you're right, it is fascinating.

One problem, because of the whole fiasco with BI, on my main computer, I installed upstairs and had a go with huge units (never had a campaign with huge unit size before), the specs are much the same as mymain computer, but I thought I'd have a go anyway. I get CTD's on the epic battles, even thouh in custom battles the computer says I can have 3200 soldiers on the battlefield with no problems. In battles with 2000 (1000 vs. 1000) men or more, it CTD's. I think I'm going to have to fight some pretty epic battles against Thrace, and I'll have to auto-calc on some important battles, with expensive armies. Should I start again on large, or keep going on huge? :help: A little dilemma for you all to help me work out.

rotorgun

10-20-2005, 00:57

One problem, because of the whole fiasco with BI, on my main computer, I installed upstairs and had a go with huge units (never had a campaign with huge unit size before), the specs are much the same as mymain computer, but I thought I'd have a go anyway. I get CTD's on the epic battles, even thouh in custom battles the computer says I can have 3200 soldiers on the battlefield with no problems. In battles with 2000 (1000 vs. 1000) men or more, it CTD's. I think I'm going to have to fight some pretty epic battles against Thrace, and I'll have to auto-calc on some important battles, with expensive armies. Should I start again on large, or keep going on huge? :help: A little dilemma for you all to help me work out.

Hmmm...I'm not sure what size video card your using, or how much ram you have available. I had a similar problem when going for huge units until I upgraded from a 64 meg Video card to a 128 meg Raedeon 9200. I also added another 512 Ram stick to give me 1 gig of ram. I can usually run any battle up to 20 full sized units per side without alot of delays, as long as I keep some of the other options, such as unit details, ground effects, and other such eye candy to a moderate level. You can probably go to the video options and play with these settings to get the most out of your system. I am still saving for another ram stick and a 256 meg VC to improve my system's performance.

If these adjustments won't do, than go for large units; then you can increase the amount of detail for a more satisfying experience. There is also a default "performance" option on the game video settings which gave me a good starting point. From there, I would play a small custom battle to see if I liked it and then adjusted from there. I still seem to get the best performance out my machine with large units. ( I still enjoy those great "huge" battles every now and then) I hope this was helpful, as I'm not the greatest techno-geek in the world.

rotorgun

rotorgun

10-20-2005, 01:21

I have agreed an alliance with the Dacians, and I hope that they will take the oppurtunity, when I hit them in the Aegean, to take their homelands, which, as I understand are poorly defended. Waaay too many commas in the above sentence. You may need to re-read it ~;).

The Senate has asked me to agree trade with Germania, so I've sent my only diplomat off into the wilderness. I could really do with one in case I need to bribe a Thracian stack. And I could also do with a ceasefire with Carthage and the Greeks. That should keep Carthage off my back, and Greece will be paying out for me protecting them... More as it comes in, and you're right, it is fascinating.

Sorry for breaking this into two separate posts; I just thought that this was a topic that needed to be dealt with by itself. You've made a good diplomatic move with Dacia. Have you been able to get them to agree with your requst to attack the Thracians? You might have to spend some denarii and give up some map info. You might even need to offer a previously owned Dacian town back. It will be worth it to see them embroiled with your rival!

As for the Senate's request, no problem. I took the advice of some others and sent diplomats to every corner of the world to established trade with as many factions as I could initially. This not only has brought me more wealth, but has gained me some valuable allies in my current campaign. Create more diplomats by all means. Make as many freinds as you can. This was the real secret of Roman success. They were able to get many countries obligated to them which enlarged her trade and increases her recruiting pool; hence the Auxilia units when you take over a foreign province.

I am really enjoying this series of posts about the Brutii. I have such a busy life, that I am not able to play my own campaign except for weekends. At least I can get alot of good ideas from talking with my fellow players in the meantime.

Appreciate the time y'all take to correspond.
Rotorgun

rotorgun

10-20-2005, 01:30

Pontus is interesting though, and perhaps more dangerous, and as a result Im playing a purely defensive strategy here. They control all of what used to by Scythia, parthia, Armenia, Egypt and of course the Seluecid Empire - they've taken Thapsus as well. I don't think they were too impressed with my incursions into Asia Minor and having taken 4 provinces, and two 'wonders' to boot, i think I've grabbed a little too much of their attention. Around ten of their stacks have made their way down from Persia.

Hail Garvanko!

So what's it like to engage the Pontic armies in battle? I have yet to do a practice custom battle with them. Can these Persians fight? Are they actually even Persians? ~:) Do you offer any suggestions on how to train myself to deal with them? I'd be greatful for any insights that you can give me.

Rotorgun

GreatEmperor

10-20-2005, 08:33

In my opinion the best way to train yourself to deal with them is to fight with them. Just go into a singleplayer battle and let the AI choose the characters.

rotorgun

10-20-2005, 15:19

In my opinion the best way to train yourself to deal with them is to fight with them. Just go into a singleplayer battle and let the AI choose the characters.

Sounds like a good idea. I'll give it a try this weekend. So how is your campaign coming along?

Thanks, Rotorgun

Craterus

10-20-2005, 15:48

Hmmm...I'm not sure what size video card your using, or how much ram you have available. I had a similar problem when going for huge units until I upgraded from a 64 meg Video card to a 128 meg Raedeon 9200. I also added another 512 Ram stick to give me 1 gig of ram. I can usually run any battle up to 20 full sized units per side without alot of delays, as long as I keep some of the other options, such as unit details, ground effects, and other such eye candy to a moderate level. You can probably go to the video options and play with these settings to get the most out of your system. I am still saving for another ram stick and a 256 meg VC to improve my system's performance.

If these adjustments won't do, than go for large units; then you can increase the amount of detail for a more satisfying experience. There is also a default "performance" option on the game video settings which gave me a good starting point. From there, I would play a small custom battle to see if I liked it and then adjusted from there. I still seem to get the best performance out my machine with large units. ( I still enjoy those great "huge" battles every now and then) I hope this was helpful, as I'm not the greatest techno-geek in the world.

rotorgun

Yes, but what I'm asking is:

Should I quit this campaign and re-start with large units, instead of huge, or have I gone too far? Maybe I'll try the Julii, as the only Roman faction I haven't had a good go at?

If I continue, I know it (CTD's and auto-calc ing important battles) will annoy me, even though it was getting fun with Thrace and all.

Garvanko

10-20-2005, 19:22

Re-start with large units, Craterus.

RG, fighting Pontus is a bit like fighting the Greeks, except their Cavalry is superior.

rotorgun

10-20-2005, 20:11

Yes, but what I'm asking is:

Should I quit this campaign and re-start with large units, instead of huge, or have I gone too far? Maybe I'll try the Julii, as the only Roman faction I haven't had a good go at?

If I continue, I know it (CTD's and auto-calc ing important battles) will annoy me, even though it was getting fun with Thrace and all.

Yes, by all means, restart. I'm sorry, I dohave a tendency to run on a bit.:embarassed: I think you'll enjoy the Julii; they get to fight all those Celts!(Including my Gallic ancestors.)

RG

Tricky Lady

10-20-2005, 20:21

Re-start with large units, Craterus.

RG, fighting Pontus is a bit like fighting the Greeks, except their Cavalry is superior.

...and if you're unlucky enough they will throw their chariot archers into the battle too. Together with Cappadocian cavalry and the bronze shield pikemen their armies are strong, but not invincible though. Not for experienced players like us. :wink: But in my latest Roman campaign (Scipii though, yes yes I know: wrong thread) they grew quite powerfull and recruited top-notch units. I almost preferred to fight the Egyptians again...

Craterus

10-20-2005, 20:51

Julii it is then. I'm annoyed about having to restart, and worked for nothing, but I doubt it is as annoyed as I would have been having all those CTD's.

rotorgun

10-21-2005, 13:50

Julii it is then. I'm annoyed about having to restart, and worked for nothing, but I doubt it is as annoyed as I would have been having all those CTD's.

Not to worry Craterus. After all, its only a game...or is it? ~:cool:

rotorgun

10-21-2005, 13:52

...and if you're unlucky enough they will throw their chariot archers into the battle too. Together with Cappadocian cavalry and the bronze shield pikemen their armies are strong, but not invincible though. Not for experienced players like us. :wink: But in my latest Roman campaign (Scipii though, yes yes I know: wrong thread) they grew quite powerfull and recruited top-notch units. I almost preferred to fight the Egyptians again...

Thanks, Tricky Lady! I'll be sure to include some of those type units during my training sessions.

Rotorgun

GreatEmperor

10-22-2005, 08:01

Sounds like a good idea. I'll give it a try this weekend. So how is your campaign coming along?

Thanks, Rotorgun
My campaign is coming along fine. With the only exception that Pontus has grown very large and has quite balanced armies walking around.
But that's not a problem because it only makes the game more interesting.

The Stranger

10-22-2005, 17:27

land on 5 different places on the turkish mainland, sieg 5 cities and the choas is complete...this way i handled a immense egypt which armies usually outnumbered my 1 to 10 in 25 turns i murdered 100000 eggies...and thats quite near the reall numbers

rotorgun

10-23-2005, 02:06

Does anyone know how the AI calculates the types of units a revolting city recieves after kicking the human player's army out?

An instance in my current game happened which caused me some consternation. I had a large (although somewhat battered) force of Brutii Urban Cohorts, backed up by Preatorian Cavalry, Archer Auxilia, and Heavy Onagers, kicked out of Batavodorum within one turn of occupation. The AI gave the city back to the British, along with a sizable force of highly experienced, and well armored Heavy Chariots, Chosen Swordsmen, and Mercenary Warband Infantry.

Does the AI usually give the previous city owners such elite type units? Is this based on the types of buildings in the city, or is it factored on the type of force that previously occupied it? It seems rather odd to award such an effective fighting force to a town that was only recently defeated during a particularly bloody siege.

'...through the perculiar virtues of their constitution and their ability to keep their heads, [the Romans]...within a few years had made themselves masters of the whole world' - Polybius

Rotogun:knight:

Seamus Fermanagh

10-23-2005, 02:52

rotorgun

10-23-2005, 04:20

Earlier threads note its the buildings.

This can lead to interesting tactical choices.
If your're keeping the city:

Knock almost everything down to minimize threat or accept some risk with faster "turn-around" for the city. Knock down the wall only, then move out, let it rebel and exterminate. Some advise doing this in a lather-rise-repeat fashion until the pop is too low to matter. (Side note: while a good gaming tactic, I find this abhorent).

If you don't want/need the city:

Knock down the money and happiness buildings but leave the advanced training grounds intact, then give it to a rival faction and let them bleed. Knock down all the buildings and leave the inheritors with a long rebuild task.

I definately agree that it is an outrageous act to exterminate a population without cause, even if it is only a game. I only do so with the greatest reluctance when there is a good reason. In the case of this village, I took it back after giving them every chance to surrender. They sallied forth on the last turn of the siege, were defeated, and then led to the execution field (after a Roman tribunal, of course) ~:rolleyes:

Thanks for the insights Seamus. You are a very helpful sort of chap!

Rotorgun :knight: