How to Model New 3D Units

[hoggy]

Modding Resource Header

Title: How to Model New 3D Units

Posted by: hoggy

Modding area: Units (appearance)
Required programmes: 3DS Max 5 or above, Vercingetorix's CAS extractor (http://dlx.gamespot.com/pc/rometotalwar/moreinfo_6112407.html), Vercingetorix's X-Pak (http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?act=mod&id=43), an image editor capable of editing .DDS files (such as Photoshop or Paintshop Pro), Notepad (or other text editor)

Related links: xpak Tutorial (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=643512&postcount=4), Head Swapping tutorial (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=39733), 3DSMax and tool tutorials (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44451)

Summary: Models are the physical shape of the soldiers (as opposed to the textures - also known as skins - which provide the colours). If the model is a chassis, then the skin is the paint-job. This is an introduction to making models. It requires some knowledge of modding the game and modelling. Like all modelling in Rome it requires 3ds max.


I’ve been asked for a guide to unit modelling in the thread on Blue Lotus. Although I can’t provide a tutorial on using max (it would be way too big) I’ll lay out the basic process I’ve used so far for creating units in case that helps.

1. Import an existing .CAS model preferably the highest poly version (ending in _400 or _highest) from Data\models_unit. (make sure you have Vercingetorix’s latest exporter). I find that working from an existing model gives you a good base which acts as a guideline for the skeleton shape, polycount etc. Save this scene as something else and remember to backup regularly.

2. Choose the rainbow shaped icon from the tabs at the top of the right hand panel then right click on the skin layer in the stack and hit ‘collapse all’ (see image below). This basically removes all vertex weighting from the model.

http://totalwar.org/images/Guides/AATutorial02.jpg

3. Select all the vertices in the model and hit ‘weld selected’ in the options on the right making sure the value is set to 0.00001 (approximately ~:) ) This makes the model into one continuous element rather that many different ones.

4. Now you are ready to edit the model as much as you require (remembering for the moment we are restricted to certain skeletons and animations). For the moment just concentrate on modelling not textures. Tips: make sure you keep your modelling clean ie no loose vertices or multiple vertices sitting on top of each other. Make sure when you mirror sections to check the polys are not inverted. Make sure you look at the way the original model is created – there is only one vertex weight per bone so that creates limitations ie. Enough polys around bone joints are required and where the legs join in the center there needs to be a clear poly for movement between the vertices.

5. Texturing. Most texturing will be done by applying a uv map by projection through one axis. Only one material/texture should be used on the model. Plan out what texturing you think you will need and how many different projections ie. You might need one for the face, one for the torso etc (the RTW textures again act as a good guide for layout). Because RTW requires each vertex to only have one set of uvs I use this method to apply textures: Select the polys on the model you wish to texture. From the options on the right click on ‘Detach’ and then tick on ‘detach to element’. Then UV map and adjust uvs to taste. Collapse the stack after every application.

http://totalwar.org/images/Guides/AATutorial03.jpg

6. When you have finished texturing each set of polys with their own uvs should be selectable in ‘element’ mode

7. Give the model a last check over, collapse the stack, check your weapons and other items are correctly linked and that the model lines up correctly with the joints of the skeleton etc.

8. Skinning. RTW has a one vertex per joint policy, which although a pain, makes skinning a doddle (note skinning is weighting the vertices to bones and has no connection with skinning in the modding sense) Select your model. In the drop down modifier list on the right go to ‘skin’. Click on the plus sign next to skin in the stack to show the envelope stack. Highlight this. In the right hand option panel click on the button ‘add’ above the empty white box. Select all the bones prefixed by ‘bone_’ (nothing else) these will then be skinned to you model and appear in the empty white box. Under the Edit Envelopes on the right tick ‘vertices’ and highlight bone_abs in the white box. Select all the vertices on your model (being careful not to touch the coloured envelopes) Below the white box with your bones in ‘Weight Properties’ tick ‘rigid’ and make the ‘Abs. Effect, 1.0. You have now weighted all the vertices in your model to the abdominal bone. Normally at this time it’s worth doing a test export and checking your model in game. It’ll be as stiff as a board but you should be able to tell if your texturing is correct. Then select one bone at a time in the white box, select the vertices you want associated with that bone and give them an Abs. Effect of 1.0 . when you’ve finished select bone_abs again to check you’ve not missed any vertices. Export again for a final test. (See image below for explanation of terms above)

http://totalwar.org/images/Guides/AATutorial04.jpg

I’ve probably missed a lot of stuff there and it may be that I do things differently from other people but I hope it might prove helpful. :bow:

[Silver Rusher]

I really really appreciate this hoggy, I've been trying to find this out for ages.

[hoggy]

editted post to add illustrations

[Sephriel]

what prog do u use? 3ds max 7? ...
have u bought it (i had trial version but that expired...)?

[CaeroxVII]

When i try to import the unit files for rome total war with the CAS importer, theres always the same error, it says

--Unknown property: "diffuseMap" in #Multi/Sub-Object:2 - Default(Standard:Material #1, Standard:2 - Default, Standard:Material #2)

Under the message window there a window with the maxscript thing were

else mat.diffuseMap=tm

is highlighted. :furious3:
I just wonder if anybody knows if this error has occured before, and if anybody knows a way to fix it. :bow:

[hoggy]

erm.. not sure what that is. Check you're importing into a clean scene ie one with nothing in it. Check you are not importing one of the .CAS files that says it's an older version. Check that you have the texture that is used on the unit unpacked... If it still doesn't work best to look here http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showforum=35
to see if your question has been asked by someone else.

[CaeroxVII]

Oh, now i might know whats the problem, it says its an older version, well do you know how to get a newer version then?

[hoggy]

most of the .CAS files prefixed by 'unit_ ' are ok. If you are editting a specific unit look in data/descr_model_battle.txt to see which .CAS file your unit uses otherwise just pick one prefixed by 'unit_'

[CaeroxVII]

Ok, thanks, i think it works now!! thanks for the help!!

[Hans Kloss]

Hoggymaybe you could write quick tutorial on how to swap weapons and shields,I guess lot of people here would be grateful for that.Also how difficult would be to alter appearance of some unit's models ? I'm trying to get rid of cloaks and change head gear of cataphract.I have max5.1 but lack any experience (apart from failed attempts to edit Ghost Recon models in the past)

[hoggy]

Swapping Weapons and shields:

-1 import CAS with shield you want to keep. select shield and click on 'unlink selection' button (top left). Then File - Save Selected. Save the shield with whatever name you like.
-2 New scene. Import the model you want to take the new shield. Delete the existing shield from the model. File - merge, to merge in the shield you saved out in step 1. click on use scene's material. Go into schematic view and link the shield back to left hand (click 'link selection' button top left and drag the shield node onto the left hand node).
-3 export the CAS
-4 Edit the texture (cut and paste) to get right shield texture used.

Same process for weapons.

[SwordsMaster]

gus, can anyone please pos a link to the CAS extractor? Ive been messing with my PC and forgot to backup, and cant find the link now....

Cheers.

BTW, hoggy great tutorials!

[Hans Kloss]

Thank you very much Hoggy -your help is very much appreciated.I guess same would apply to changing head gear.


gus, can anyone please pos a link to the CAS extractor? Ive been messing with my PC and forgot to backup, and cant find the link now....

http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=43

[SwordsMaster]

cheers m8 :bow:

[Hans Kloss]

Swapping Weapons and shields:

-1 import CAS with shield you want to keep. select shield and click on 'unlink selection' button (top left). Then File - Save Selected. Save the shield with whatever name you like.
-2 New scene. Import the model you want to take the new shield. Delete the existing shield from the model. File - merge, to merge in the shield you saved out in step 1. click on use scene's material. Go into schematic view and link the shield back to left hand (click 'link selection' button top left and drag the shield node onto the left hand node).
-3 export the CAS
-4 Edit the texture (cut and paste) to get right shield texture used.

Same process for weapons.

I did follow your instructions but I keep getting this error message.It is probably something simply that I have messed up :help:

http://img64.exs.cx/img64/9316/error18.jpg

[hoggy]

Did you link the new shield back to the hand bone in the schematic view? (graph editors-new schematic view) I think that should fix it. I'm off on holiday for a few days from tonight so apologies if i don't reply...
ps. this process only works for seperate objects like the weapons and shields so won't work for headgear unless its a seperate object.

[Silver Rusher]

Could you please maybe recommend us to some beginner tutorials please? I'm really stuck on getting my head around 3ds max, and as I am the only modeller on my mod team it is hard as I am hopeless at 3ds.

[Hans Kloss]

Enjoy your holidays Hoggy, I will keep on experimenting ~:)

I'm not sure of you find much info for beginers (I didn't) but try :

http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showforum=35

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=45

[Hans Kloss]

Problem finally solved.It was all to do with linking.Thx once again Hoggy

http://img22.exs.cx/img22/7610/solved.jpg

[PiperWilliam]

" 1. Import an existing .CAS model preferably the highest poly version (ending in _400 or _highest) from Data\models_unit. (make sure you have Vercingetorix’s latest exporter). "

Hi. Sorry for being dumb, but could you give me a step-by-step guide of how to do this? I have 3ds max and all the rest - I just can't work out how to get the .CAS files into the program. It gives me an error message if I try to import them, and I don't know how Vercingetorix's exporter works. I have read the readme, but I don't understand it very well.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

[Hans Kloss]

I will try but please remember I'm new to that too.First of all download the latest version of Vercingetorix's script from :http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=141

Next step is to unzip file into your max script folder.Start max.In the right corner you will see Utility button (hammer icon) in the bottom press "Run script"

http://img127.exs.cx/img127/5336/3583.jpg

That will open script folder where you should select script to import CAS files

http://img127.exs.cx/img127/2553/3584.jpg

[Hans Kloss]

With script running you need now set the texture path and press "Import CAS" button

http://img127.exs.cx/img127/6663/3585.jpg

About errors...I believe some CAS can not be imported.If you see messages about importer detection files being old and so ,don't import it.Select file you need to import (high or 400 CAS) and you can now modify this sexy lady

http://img127.exs.cx/img127/3310/3586.jpg

[PiperWilliam]

Thanks mate - that's really good of you, but the problem I seem to encounter is getting the texture path - what do I type there?

[Hans Kloss]

Default texture's path in the script comes as D:/Program Files/Activision....all you need to do is set texture path to where textures files are located (model _unit/textures).All I needed to to is to change D to C as my RTW is installed on C drive.You can also do that by pressing "Set Texture Folder Path" -I have marked in red on one of pictures.

[flip]

http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/BA/test%206.jpg

This will be for a Bronze Age mod

look at the units in background, they're shiels are smaller.
mabe this happens because we usually work on the high resolution CAS file.
so is there a way to clone quickly the lower res CAS files?

other issue, I just get that shield larger with the displacement of vertex. when rescaled the shield in MAx , when I import to check the CAS file, the shield become to default size.

[Vercingetorix]

Check "Ignore all textures" and it won't import textures. You're using an earlier version then 5.0 I'm guessing?

[hoggy]

look at the units in background, they're shiels are smaller.
mabe this happens because we usually work on the high resolution CAS file.
so is there a way to clone quickly the lower res CAS files?

other issue, I just get that shield larger with the displacement of vertex. when rescaled the shield in MAx , when I import to check the CAS file, the shield become to default size.

A quick temporary way to fix this is to make the model use the high res.CAS at all distances in the descr_model.txt but it's not a long term solution as it's bad for processing speed. eg:
model_flexi data/models_unit/kappa_archer_400.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/kappa_archer_400.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/kappa_archer_400.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/kappa_archer_400.cas, max

your scaling problem is possibly to do with the fact that the sheild is linked to the hand on the skeleton. Either unlink it, scale it and reset transforms, and then re-link it or do as you have been and rescale vertices.

[Hans Kloss]

Another question Hoggy -how does one go about editing helmets/head gear?
Is it only editing textures or is max modification needed too ?

[NaeBlis]

u will need 3dsmax if u wish to modify the SHAPE. If u just want to change the texture (i.e. the "colours"), then u extract the textures, modify them, give them another name, put them in the relevant folder, and point the game to that texture.

[PiperWilliam]

Thanks for the help guys, but all I'm still getting is a skeleton, with an error message:


MAXScript Rollout Handler Exception

-Type Error: if-test requires BocleanClass, got: unidefined

[Hans Kloss]

I'm helpless now...are you sure you are trying to import CAS files ?


u will need 3dsmax if u wish to modify the SHAPE. If u just want to change the texture (i.e. the "colours"), then u extract the textures, modify them, give them another name, put them in the relevant folder, and point the game to that texture.

ok thx...all I'm trying to do is to replace head gear from model to another.

[PROMETHEUS]

Hi guys Anyone knows a way to export well and make lower cas files? since I made some but on the majority of cases the exporter messes up even if saying that the export was succesfullll , then in game there are weird stuff..... :help:

[Hans Kloss]

Here is another quick question: I'm trying to get rid of cloaks on cataphracts models.Would I need to edit model or texture ?

[hoggy]

The cloaks on the horses or riders? If you mean horses, it's part of the model sadly. You could change the horse used by the unit into one that isn't cataphract in export_descr_unit.

[Hans Kloss]

I meant on the riders Hoggy...I did delete feathers from their head gear but cloak does not appear in max and I'm not sure which part of textures refers to cloak

[hoggy]

Try rotating him around in Max, I just loaded one of the cataphract models and the cape is a singlefaced poly so you can only see it from behind. Might not be the case on yours but worth a try.

[Hans Kloss]

Now I can see that...for some strange reason it would have not shown before.
Thx again Hoggy.Now last question: about head gear.How does one replace helmets? for example if one wants "switch" heads of Hunting Maiden with Scythian Noble woman ?

[hoggy]

It means editting the model, I've done a tutorial hopefully that will help.

[j4k3]

What am I doing wrong? I've downloaded the importer/exporter for the R:TW .cas 3D file format, ran it properly, set my textures path, selected "Import CAS" but why am I not getting the image of the model/unit? Instead, here's what I'm getting -

http://img79.exs.cx/img79/6991/e6i3ds.jpg

...instead of this -

http://img127.exs.cx/img127/3310/3586.jpg

Why am I not getting that image? I'm using 3D Studio Max 7 btw...

[eadingas]

This may sound silly, but.. have you tried zooming?

[j4k3]

This may sound silly, but.. have you tried zooming?


No, where is the option for that? I can't seem to find it...

[Hans Kloss]

Right hand side corner button min/max toggle (big square and small one),click on that and the use you mouse scroll button to zoom in

[dclare4]

Hi there,

Just a quick question for the model modifiers - do you think 3D Studio Max 6 or higher will work with Windows 98? I'm debating whether to get a secondhand one.

Thanks,
Clare

[Hans Kloss]

http://www.discreet.com/support/max/

[Hans Kloss]

http://img129.exs.cx/img129/998/untitled1fb.jpg


Is this lowest CAS file for scythian lancer and nobelman ? I don't think I have my file corrupted so could someone please check it out.

[NaeBlis]

thats the bones of the unit

[Hans Kloss]

For some reason I get CTD with any of those two units modded.That lowest CAS must be reason

[Piko]

:help:


where do you find the 3d max file! plz help me after opening the dowload i have to put the file into 3dsmax/scripts right? where do i find the map?

:help:

[Hans Kloss]

Hammer icon and run the script

Look at post 21 in this thread - there are screenshots on how to do

[Piko]

'Next step is to unzip file into your max script folder'
where is this max script folder?

[Hans Kloss]

Normally : C:/3dsmax5/scripts

[Piko]

thanks that helped alot

[Etwmodders]

is using 3ds max the ONLY way to model in RTW?

[Suraknar]

Hello,

Very nice information about Models here, however I have a small question.

How would we handle the sprites for a new unit (new model and texture) ?

[Sundjata Keita]

Jerome said something about a sprite generator in the "post your must know modding questions here" (in the general modding forum). How long this will take to come out is unknown and whether it will ever come out is also unknown but lets just hope.

Anyone got any info on this?

[infernalbob]

Hello, i also got the same question as the other post, is there ANY other way to modify the characters or is ther another program. Something that can also rotate character, add/delete thier apparance and can be used in the game? i tried looking for 3ds Max 30 day trail but it said they weren't giving it out anymore that maybe in the future. so i downloaded gmax from the same site and it looks EXACTLY the same as this 3ds max people are talking about so is it also for modding. to me it's kind of wierd activision and the designer would only depended on 3ds max for people to use when moddeling. Please someone asnwer both questions i would appriciate it. thanx :help:

[HenryLet]

I've just got version 6.0 of 3D STudio Max and I would like to ask someone to write a brief tutorial about modelling new or modifing existing units for Rome Total War using 3D studio Max 6.0.
I would really appreciate that because I don't know how to use this programme at all!! There are too many option, buttons, bars, menus and I can't make out for anything!!
Wanna thank everyone of you who gives me an hand.

[Bwian]

Infernalbob .... as far as changing the 3D models in this game you can ONLY use 3DS Max. When the game was designed, it was done on a commercial basis by professionals. They wouldn't restrict themselves to using a £20 software package on such a large project....they would use the best tools there budget would allow. The fact that we can mod this game at all is down to Max's power and the ability of Vercingetorix to write a Max-script file that translates the model format.

Now...Creative Assembly have made this game VERY moddable... the file format was not kept a tight secret, and as a result, we can do what we can. Trust me....I can't think of many other developers who make it as eaay as this.

G-Max...yes. OK. This is actually a cut-down version of max, with the rendering facilities removed and a VERY tight control over the formats you can save in. It is given out free....but there is a catch!

Discreet will write a plugin and integrate it into G-Max for a price. Tehn the software can export to your format. Lovely. I was invovled in a project some years back that looked into a G-Max licence, and then there was a starting fee of £10,000 for development. There was then ongoing licencing fees and costs. This is fine for the likes of Quake III or MS Flight Sims, wheer you are selling hundreds of thousands of units. It costs in. Otherwise...well...it's a very expensive way to mod. Less cash-rich developers are not going to be doing this. In short.... useful to learn Max ... useless for modding RTW.

Finally....learning 3DS Max from scratch is a big job. There are HUNDREDS of tutorials, lots of books ( I can recommend the 3DS Max 6 Bible ), Max specific forums, and such like online. Fire up google and get searching. Focus on mesh-modelling, uv mapping, and general understanding of the toolbars. Oh yes...and READ THE MANUAL! It's written in 3D-jargon, but you MUST learn to speak the language. TRy 3D Buzz for tutorials. It is a MAJOR job to teach someone to model. I know...I have done it before. You can't just write a tutorial and create an instant modeller.....it takes time, practice and a lot of patience!

[Sundjata Keita]

This question comes up so often - How do I use 3ds max, can someone give me a tutorial. As Bwian said its not easy to learn 3ds max but someone has already written many tutorials, in fact they come with the program. Just go into the help menu and do the mesh editing tutorial (I think you model a hand, I haven't done it for quite some time now) and do the UV map tutorial (you texture some kind of spaceship). These tutorials really helped me learn and although you may sometimes get stuck just keep at it. It will only take a month at the most to learn how to edit the models enough to start on the cas files but if you want to learn every function (and you probably don't) it can take years.

If you want some breif tutorials see hoggy's tutorial and there is a really good one on strategic command center, I will edit the post and post a link if I find it again. Good luck!

[Hans Kloss]

another quick question that I'm sure Hoggy can easily answer.How does one create lower CAS files from CAS high ? Chivalry 0.1.6 hastings mod comes with single cas files of knight templar and gothic kinght but not lower models.

[hoggy]

I believe you have to do it by hand, building a reduced version for each level of detail and then re- exporting with a new name. There are basic poly reduction tools in max but they don't do a clean job which you need to export CAS. It's grunt work and as such most mods don't have the time but it'll mean that people with older pcs will struggle with alot of mods.

[GodsPetMonkey]

another quick question that I'm sure Hoggy can easily answer.How does one create lower CAS files from CAS high ? Chivalry 0.1.6 hastings mod comes with single cas files of knight templar and gothic kinght but not lower models.

Take inspiration from CA.

Good places to recover faces (triangles) from is the head, arms and legs.
In the high detail models, theres alot of exesive detail in the face, mainly the lips and nose, quick easy way to fix this is to vertex weld them together (you will need to do a quick re-mapping of the texture though, buts its pretty simple). Helmets often have 2 or more 'rows' of vertices between the brim and the tip, again, cheat by welding them together, or just delete the faces and recreate them so there is only one row.

The arms and legs are also pretty easy. Try to get both as close as you can to rectangular prism, with the hands/foot meeting at a sharp point. You can use vertex weld again (esp. for the hands/feet), but I find it much easier to delete the faces on one side at a time, and then create a new poly in its place using the respective tool (I normally just run the poly from the shoulder right down to the elbow, then another from the elbow to the point of the hand).

Weapons are another good place to grab some polys, just have 2 planes, facing opposite directions, and UV map them to the weapon in your texture. 4 triangles, you dont get much more minimal then that!

Of course, these tips are for the lowest of detail settings. If you want to work on the others, just find places of unneeded detail that can easily be trimmed down. For those with high end PCs, the loss in detail wont be noticed at range, and those with lesser machines, they will be thankful for being able to play your mod.

Oh yeah, and make your life easy, delete half of your model, do your LOD work, then mirror it, as you will need to reskin the bones anyway, this will nearly half your work!

[Hans Kloss]

Thx guys ..will give a try

[GodsPetMonkey]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention this!

Change the model to an editable poly (rather then mesh) so you take advantage of the 'safe delete' (highlight and press backspace). This will allow you to remove edges and vertices with out deleting the faces they are attatched to (it effectively automatically redraws it). Done in the right way, this can free up loads of faces with out screwing up your texture mapping. Sadly it can't be used everywhere, but it can save alot of time.

There are other useful features in poly mode that are worth checking out, but you can run into issues converting between poly and mesh, so be careful on the more powerful tools.

[Cirith-Ungol]

when I try to imprort a model.... Unit_****_400.cas it says it's of earlier version and when it asks whether I want to continue and I press yes it just shows some undistinguishable lines......
also...

3. Select all the vertices in the model and hit ‘weld selected’ in the options on the right making sure the value is set to 0.00001 (approximately ) This makes the model into one continuous element rather that many different ones.

When I try to do that it says "No vertices within Weld threshhold"


plz help ~:confused:

[Cirith-Ungol]

my bad for double post... couldn't find the edit button.
Ok... I figured that i'd zoom in on the undistinguishable lines and .... the model appeared however... no vertices problem persists

[Legionario]

Some Cas files look like are leftovers from CA,unfinished units,barely human... ~:) ...only simple first stage rough bodies....so useless,unless you don't want to finish them by yourself,but there's already a wealth of models to play with in there... ~D

[PotatoChip]

I can't even see any files in my folders? WHY? Help me. ~:cheers:

[thelonewolf40]

Hi hoggy and everybody else in this forum. I think that what you guys are doing here is just great. RTW is great. I am fascinated with all this moddeling and changing colours and weapons etc... I downloaded a freetrial version of 3ds max 7. here's the link. http://nct.digitalriver.com/fulfill/0049.017/download/2005-8bab95fe5e61377e641d34f25eb037e5-3

My question is... do I really need such an expensive program just to model and modify the units etc.. in RTW? Is there a cutdown vrsion that a person could have just to have some fun with? I am not a student of this art, nor do I know if I can do this, I am just totaly intrigued by it. Could you do the same thing with this version of 3ds max? please check link.

http://estore.discreet.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=696108&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=37482&CID=0&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=174329

Thanks very much to whoever responds. :help:

[Myrddraal]

Hi thelonewolf, and welcome to the .org forums!

Unfortunatly, the CAS extractor was made by a fan not by CA, and it was made as a 3ds max script.

There is a program called GMax. This program is free, but I'm not sure where to download it. With this program, you can open CAS files, but you can't save them. I recommend downloading GMax, use it to edit your models, and then ask someone at these forums if you can send them to them and they will send back the CAS files. Thats your best bet I think.

PotatoChip, what do you mean?

[Sundjata Keita]

Here is a link to gmax

http://www4.discreet.com/gmax/

If anyone wants models converting back into .cas form just pm me ~:cheers:

Sundjata Keita

[thelonewolf40]

Thanks a lot guys. I have now gotten myself a copy o 3ds max7. Problem is, I have to learn all the features as it applies to RTW. The tutorials do not address the specifics of .cas files as they pertain to the game. I understand the concept of the 3d modelling, but not the way I have read here on the forum. Is the 3d modelling in the tutorials, more, or less difficult than the RTW type of moddeling? what am I missing? how do I apply a skin? a texture? texture colour etc... when I import a .cas file, all I get is a skeleton and no matter what I do I can't apply a skin. Do I need to draw a skin over the bones, as in the other form of moddeling? what does UVW stand for? (in layman terms). Is there a glossary of terms I can get? as it applies to the modelling in RTW? I have so many questions, but life is too short.

Thanks in advance guys. ~:cheers: :help:

[Sundjata Keita]

Modelling for RTW is on the whole easier than just modelling anything because it sticks to basics. When you import the cas it should have a skin but if not it may be an older version of the file. If you are talking about the actual texture on the skin then at first you will need to force the texture path and pick the folder in the pack files with all the textures.

UVW is the map that shows the computer where to put the texture on the model. You can edit it by clicking on the UVW modifier in the dropdown list and then clicking "edit"

Remember learning how to use MAX isn't easy and will take a while to learn just the basics. As for a glossary of terms you could use the help in max to search for anything you don't understand although from experience if you are new to max it may just confuse you more ~;)

Hope that helps,

Sundjata Keita

[thelonewolf40]

Thanks a lot Sundjata, Is there a place, like maybe Activision where one can download the newer files?

Thanks. ~:cheers:

[Sundjata Keita]

The newer files are just the ones the game uses, if you look at all the models test quite a few and see if the problem persists. Often a message will appear on the cas importer saying that it is an older version. Can you post a screenshot of the problem and then I can see what you mean.

Regards,

Sundjata Keita

[thelonewolf40]

Thanks again Sundjata, I have gone into the file that the game uses and printed out a portion of the file to make sure I am importing the right one. I am trying to get this specific one that the game uses. (data/models_unit/unit_praetorian_high.cas,15) the next three in line on the game file, end with: low.cas,30, 40, and max. but keep getting the same error message. MaxScript Rollout Handler Exception
Type error: if-test requires BooleanClass, got: undefined

I tried to insert a screenshot, but don't seem to be able to get that to work either. :furious3:

:help: :embarassed: ~:confused:

[Sundjata Keita]

Do other units' models import properly? If so then the one you are importing is an older filetype and nothing can be done. If the problem applies to all the units' models then you may have an outdated cas importer and I suggest updating to the latest one (I think it is v6)

Regards,

Sundjata Keita

PS if you want to post a screenshot then use a hosting site like www.imageshack.us ~:)

[thelonewolf40]

Hey! Sundjata, and everybody else. I have everything working just fine. I reinstalled the .cas extracter and all's well. I, on the other hand am more, and more baffled. I don't get the RTW unit texture maps, they are all scrambled in the tga and I don't understand how these are this way while other 3d maps I've seen are just an opened-up textured skin. If all I wanted to do at this time was to just change some colours, would I have to paint over the old ones, or do I change the RGB values? I tried once painting over the old colour and the file got very large and would not run in the game, ~:confused: what Layer would I paint on? I read a photoshop tutorial in these forums but don't remember where. does anyone know the thread?

I have managed at least one modd. Using Caligula, I modified the Julii Triarii just giving them the ability to form a Phalanx and instantly in the game they had long pikes and were practically an inpenetrable wall I noticed that they still would use their long pikes like a spear when ordered to attack and were a lot more effective than the Greek Hoplites.

Thanks Guys


~:confused: :dizzy2: ~:cheers:

[thelonewolf40]

OOPS!!!!! :furious3: I almost forgot. On the Campaign map, how do I find the exact coords.? how far to the right does it go in numbers? if bottom left corner is 0,0 , what number is the upper right corner? what is the scale? I read that Photoshop will give you the coords. but that they start from the left upper corner instead of the bottom left. I this true? I want to add gold and silver mines to a province but need to know where to put it.

Many thanks.

[Sundjata Keita]

Sounds like you have a lot of questions ~:) If you want to change the colour of a unit in photoshop then you must select all the parts of the texture of that colour and then press ctrl u to bring up the simple colour changer, play around with the sliders until you get the colour you want. The filesize should be no bigger.

You will notice that many of the UV maps (the things that decide where the textures go in relation to the model) are different and this is purely because the layout used was easier for that particular model. All the UV maps are cylindrical though, which means that for the arm texture, that flat bit of arm has to wrap itself right round the arm on the model. Same applys for all the other bits of the model.

You are right in thinking that the game takes it from the bottom left and photoshop from the top left. It is quite easy to fix though

1. First click on the info box in the top left of the screen (next to the navigator) so you can see co-ordinates

2. Then use the square selection tool to select all of the campaign map and note down the width and hieght (I can't remember what they are)

3. Then deselect the area and put you mouse on the bit where you want the goldmine

4. Look at the co-ordinates shown in the info box, to work out the co-ordinates in game, the x value will be the same and the y value will be the total height minus the y value seen.

Hope this all helps, ~:cheers:

Sundjata Keita

[Kääpäkorven Konsuli]

Wohoo, I must tell somebody about my success, I am so excited about this.
:jumping:

I downloaded 3ds max trial yesterday and today I was abel to but legionnaire helmet to gallic swordman. Of course helmet got hair texture, but that doesn't matter right now. Tomorrow I will try to get right texture for helmet and maybe do more editing. :2thumbsup:

Thank you Hoggy, your tutorials have been more than helpful.

This is almost funner than playing the game. :happy2:

~:cheers:

[Sundjata Keita]

Congratulations ~:cheers: Looks like we have a new modeller on the scene, want to join my mod ~;) (that's what everyone will be saying soon)

PS I haven't actually played the game in months, that's what modding does to you

[dragases80]

Ok ...

thank to you all

I have just modified my first model... but there is a problem


how can i map this model ?

Is possible to make a little tutorial for basics uvmapping ???


Bye ~:)

[Moooul]

:help: hi there,

nice tutorial indeed. it's certainly the most detailed concerning skinning but anyway i don't get it properly. i changed some heads/plumes according to some great tutorial :book: . retextured them but i cant get the vertices weighted correctly (at least i think so). trying to save my model as .cas i get some notification saying "mesh body_400 must have the skin modifier at the top of the stack. if it is static it must have a bone as its parent" what did i do wrong? could someone plz publish a tutorial which copes with skinning step by step? i already made some great modifications and it would be quiet sad if i couldn't complete them ~:confused:

[Moooul]

heres an image of my problem including my diagram viewhttps://img127.imageshack.us/img127/5401/error2sz.jpg

plz help

[hoggy]

All the objects in your scene need to be either skinned to the bones or linked to the bones. So for example in your example body_400 might be skinned and weighted as by the tutorial but body_01 and shoulder pads could be linked to the torso bone. You link objects using the button to the right of the black arrow in the yellow button in your screen shot. Click that then drag the shoulder pads onto the torso bone. To avoid all these problems though make your 3 objects 1 big object and just skin that.

[JHW]

ok I downloaded that link to the xpac folder but there didnt seem to be any script files in there? Was this the wrong file? If so where do i get the other one?

[Moooul]

jhw that is a max-script... it only work if u copy it into ur 3d studio max /script folder and perform it from the toolbar on the right.


hoggy, i merged my objekts all to the "scene root" so i got one objekt. skinned all vertices to bone_abs (rigid and 1,0) and tada.... no error message. but, when i tested my new .cas file (it was only 6 Kb) i had just bones and weapon/shield(without any texture). thats odd ...

i skinned doing the following:
added bone_* to envelope
selected bone_abs
selected all vertices
checked rigid and weighted them with 1,0
so whats wrong with that?

[hoggy]

I think the scene root is a null? I don't think it should be part of the object. If you collapse the stack then just merge the geometry only (but not the weapon) and then skin it all it should work. You have to link the weapon to the hand bone. Did you mean it comes out ok in game but the texture doesn't show or that all you see in game is the floating weapon?

[Moooul]

https://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2224/error28bq.jpg

heres what i got it seems to me all right but it does not export properly anyway..

[Moooul]

~:) well i got the problem solved partially. i had to collapse my uvw modifier. files are larger now but in game i only see weapon/shield. (quite funny)

[zjave]

Right... First post! Sorry to bug you with such a basic question:

I tried to change the left arm of a model so that it resembles a sleeve, and not a bare arm. So far, so good. Now- how do you make the right arm exactly the same as the left? I tried to press the "mirror" button and fiddle around with that but it mirrors the whole body. How do I isolate just the arm so I can mirror that?

I know you guys have better things to do than help out complete beginners but any help would be greatly appreciated.

[wlesmana]

Option 1: you have to separate the arm first. Usually it's easier to just select it using Elements in Editable Mesh modifier, then press "Detach" at the option windows bottom right. You mirror that (use Copy), then click on the main mesh again, and use Attach to attach the two arms back together.

Option 2: just mirror the whole body, then use Elements in Editable Mesh to select everything in the second body but the arm you want to keep. Delete the rest and you get your arm. Just Attach it to the main mesh.

[zedar]

In the beginnig of this tutorial hoggy says that there can only be one texture per vertex. Does this mean that there cant be opacity or bumb maps?
'Cause i tried bumb map but texture went wrong...so is there any ways to put opacity map? ~:confused:

[hoggy]

one texture per model. You can have opacity by using the alpha channel but no bump maps.

[zjave]

So simple! Thanks, wlesmana.

[zedar]

Ok. Here is my situation:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/zedar_1/outoa.jpg

I dont have a clue what went wrong :help:
I know that those men and flags outside of "mumakil" can be fixed in descr_mount, but what is wrong with the model???

This is rendered image of model:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/zedar_1/Mumakil.jpg
it looks fine to me.
Could it be because of some values in descr_mount? Like value of tusks_z or others?

Does it matter that i didnt uvmap the whole model cause it had already right uvmap, i just changed it little bit.

Help wanted, if someone can help me.

[zedar]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/zedar_1/Mumakil.jpg

There is zoomed pic of problem part... Those circled men are riders :/

[zedar]

Im veery sorry about posting this many times but i cant edit :I
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/zedar_1/outoazoom.jpg

This is the right pic for last post.

[hoggy]

it looks like a problem with your scale settings, are you using a normal elephant skeleton but with a scale setting in descr_mount? Scale of the skeleton should be the same in the animation and descr_model_battle I believe.

[zedar]

it looks like a problem with your scale settings, are you using a normal elephant skeleton but with a scale setting in descr_mount? Scale of the skeleton should be the same in the animation and descr_model_battle I believe.

hmm... Does it matter if i scaled the whole model(modle and bones and all) in 3ds max?


Scale of the skeleton should be the same in the animation and descr_model_battle I believe.

Where i can check the scale of animation? I changed that scale at descr_mount or in there descr_model_battle, but how do i know scale of animation?

[hoggy]

you shouldn't scale anything in max. You need to use Vercingetorix's animation tool to scale animations.

[zedar]

you shouldn't scale anything in max. You need to use Vercingetorix's animation tool to scale animations.

OOHH!!! :furious3: ~D
That is probably the problem then. I must do the skinnig phase again :(
Well... i send next problem/finished pic to here :)

Thanks very much hoggy!

[zedar]

Ok!! Now it works!!! Weeh!
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/zedar_1/toimii.jpg

Only one thing bothers me still: Texture of box/tower/thing which is above mumakil changes, there should be only that brown texture, not those whiter parts. But its not big problem cause it fine now too.

hoggy: where can i scale that thing if not max? I tried in descr_mount---> radius, i added more that but its not changing. Where is that scaling part then?

[Moooul]

i made it.

it had all to do with my 3dsm version i had 5.0 needed 6.0 what a ******.
i tried for month to get it and it was that bad bad bad wrong version.
anyway thanks to all ur effords espacially to u hoggy
https://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5398/unbenannt4ei.jpg

[hoggy]

hoggy: where can i scale that thing if not max? I tried in descr_mount---> radius, i added more that but its not changing. Where is that scaling part then?

You need to use Vercingetorix's animation editor tool (i think it's available in the downloads section). It's very simple to use. If you run it a nd hit h for help it lists it's functions. Create a new skeleton using the existing elephant anims. Then scale that skeleton. Then asign that skeleton to the unit in descr_model_battle and apply the same factor of scale (see notes at top of descr_model_battle. This should scale your model and the rider offsets but you may have to tweak rider offsets in descr_mount. good luck.

[Ciaran]

I´ve got myself gmax just recently and started some fooling around with that, and boy, my respect for all of you who know this has really shot up.

Is it because of gmax that I can´t see the textures of the model in the program? I set the correct texture path, even converted them from tga.dds to a couple of other formats, but they won´t show :embarassed:

[hoggy]

I'm not sure what that is. try doing a render (greeny blue teapot at top right to see if it shows up.

Spirit_of_Rob - I can't reply to your PM because your inbox is full. It looks like you've only weighted one bone on your model, that's why they appear stiff as a board. You need to skin all the bones to get the correct result.

[Ciaran]

All right, I found out what I was doing wrong, it had to do with material.

[dctanker]

Okay... so heres the lowdown, I've just got 3ds max 7 and I know completely nothing about it... could you make a dummies guide for it? Im trying anyway but ill probably fail, MISERABLY. Im hoping to becomse a little more advanced eventually... eventually.

[dctanker]

Okay... so heres the lowdown, I've just got 3ds max 7 and I know completely nothing about it... could you make a dummies guide for it? Im trying anyway but ill probably fail, MISERABLY. Im hoping to becomse a little more advanced eventually... eventually.
erm... i just tried but it cant seem to open .cas files... only .max and .chr

[hoggy]

If you look around the forum a bit there are a number of postings providing links for Max tutorials. It is a huge package so don't expect to be up and building m,odels for a while. You need Vercingetorix's Cas exporter tool to import cas files (see tools list in the root of the scriptorium)

[zedar]

Try doing tutorials in max. Go throught them from the beginning and as long as you want and skip boring things (means unnecessary). ~:handball:
It takes awhile to learn model...

[Bwian]

You can narrow down the search a little bit by getting a bit more specific with your 'googling'.

Look for tutorials on:

Mesh Modelling
Low Poly Modelling
UV Mapping
Mapping Textures
Keyframe Animation
Skin Modifier

That sort of thing. MAx is designed to do really high end modelling, and very compley animation tasks. To model for RTW, you will be barely touching the very tiniest tip of what it can do...trouble is, if you let the real Genie out ofthe Max bottle, you will end up with models WAY too complex for the game engine, and will probably blow a fuse or two trying to get to grips with all teh words and terms in the tutorials. In short..3DS Max is like a Formula 1 car....and you are just working out which pedal makes it go ~D

Track down a good book ( assuming you...er...cough..don't have the manual ) My 3ds Max 6 Bible is invaluable. It's a lot less 'dry' than the manula, and came with a handy disc of samples and example vids. The Max manual tended to make more sense AFTER I had worked it out, and knew what the hell they were trying to say anyway.... Even then...the book is 1200 pages long!!! ( and...thank the gods..came with an electronic version on the disc! )

[tomat]

can I model with GMax? and If I can't where can I get 3DS Max 5?

[Sundjata Keita]

You can model in it but you can't export with it. You can buy 3ds max5 from the discreet website.

[SirRethcir]

Need help!

Here is what I do:
-import mount_horse_light_XXX.CAS
-select Mesh -> Skin -> Envelope
-open Weight Table
-give all Vertices from 'bone_H_Saddle' to 'bone_H_Lower back'
-export CAS

Every time I try to load this saved CAS it comes up with an error.
The same when I give only one Vertex to the other bone.

Any suggestion?

Thanks in advance!

[SirRethcir]

With 'load' I mean: to import the saved CAS File in 3DSMax.

(Why can't I edit my posts?)

[hoggy]

Strange. I'm not sure what's causing your problem. You get no error when you export? Have you had any problems exporting/importing before or is this the first time? Does the new CAS work in game?



ps. for some reason this forum only gives post edit rights to members and above. still not entirely sure how you become a member.

[zedar]

With 'load' I mean: to import the saved CAS File in 3DSMax.

(Why can't I edit my posts?)

what does that error say?

[SirRethcir]

Strange. I'm not sure what's causing your problem. You get no error when you export?
That's right, no export error.


Have you had any problems exporting/importing before or is this the first time?
Hm, I think I had the same error message when doing things such as add bones...


Does the new CAS work in game?
Yes, no problem. But I would really love to export it again.

error mesage:
MAXScript Rollout Handler Exception
--No "+" function for undefined

highlighted line in progressStart ("Setting up Mesh...")
.
geomSet.geomChunks[k].newObj.pos +=bChunk.pbones ...
.


Have you tried it yourself?
Give one vertex to another bone, export and then import?

[hoggy]

No I must admit I haven't. I tend to save the scene as a standard max file on my own directories while I work on the model. Then you can open the max file, edit and re-export any time.

[miak]

So when you make a guy like a hoplite if you make the spear longer will the range be longer?

[SirRethcir]

Thanks for your replies, hoogy and zedar!
New questions awaiting you. (in 'General')


So when you make a guy like a hoplite if you make the spear longer will the range be longer? I don't think so. ;)
But wait for an expert answering!

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Thanks Hogg. I can't wait to get started!

[Dromikaites]

When trying to export to .CAS format I get the message:
"Problem occured while reading the weights for vertex 336 in mesh body. Make sure each each vertex has exactly 1 bone weight"

In the skin weight table that vertex is linked to only one bone, as it can be seen it the screenshot:

[img=https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4519/3ds7ei.gif] (https://imageshack.us)

Any ideas?

Thank you very much!

[Dromikaites]

When trying to export to .CAS format I get the message:
"Problem occured while reading the weights for vertex 336 in mesh body. Make sure each each vertex has exactly 1 bone weight"

In the skin weight table that vertex is linked to only one bone, as it can be seen it the screenshot:

[url=https://imageshack.us][img=https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4519/3ds7ei.gif]

Any ideas?

Thank you very much!
https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4519/3ds7ei.gif

[hoggy]

hmm, not sure. try weighting that vertex again with 'rigid' checked.

[Dromikaites]

hmm, not sure. try weighting that vertex again with 'rigid' checked.
Naah, it doesn't seem to work. The vertex is weighted with 'rigid' option on but still no change.

Would you take a look at the .max file?

[wlesmana]

The warning message is often wrong. Check the entire vertex weight list for weights that are not 1 or empty/0.

[zedar]

When i got that error, i weighted all vertices again, but made sure that example bone_abs had all vertices selected. It worked after that.

[Dromikaites]

Unfortunately there's something I'm probably missing...Inspite the fact every vertex is weighted to one and only one bone with the "rigid" option and the value 1.0 that error is still preventing me to export the model to .cas

I checked the bones and vertexes one by one in the "Skin weight table". Is any other place I can check the status of the vertexes and bones?

[hoggy]

Hi Dromikaites, I'll PM you my email and take a look at it

[Dromikaites]

Thank you very much Hoggy!

[Dromikaites]

Unfortunately there's something I'm probably missing...Inspite the fact every vertex is weighted to one and only one bone with the "rigid" option and the value 1.0 that error is still preventing me to export the model to .cas

I checked the bones and vertexes one by one in the "Skin weight table". Is any other place I can check the status of the vertexes and bones?

Well, it turned out that not every vertex was weighted to one and only bone. Actually there were 2 vertexes not linked to any bone. But they were not those reported by the .CAS exporter. Since I was looking in the weight table for vertexes connected to two or more bones, I missed those.

The key learning points are:

1) Don't take ad-literam the .CAS exporter error messages (This doesn't mean in any way I'm not grateful to Vercingetorix for his wonderful tool - no modding of the models would be possible without it)
2) Take a very good look at the weight table.

Thank you all who tried to help me and I'm sorry I've wasted your time with my stupid lack of attention to detail.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

I have a question. When making models, what dimensions should be used? or do the models automatically resize temselves?

[hoggy]

best bet is to import an RTW unit model and adopt the file's scale. Use this as your guide for all other scaling.

[Luciano B]

BASIC TUTORIAL FOR UV MAPPING?

...sorry for boring you so much with such kind of questions...

I need a very simple and basic instructions to make the new UV maps related to modified models... by now I'm able to change weapons, shields and add little features like plumes, feathers, etc., following the very useful tutorials that I found in this discussion ...my problem is that I don't know how to make the new uv maps with enlarged room for the larger shield and for the new items that I added to the model...
...can you help me, please?

[rocky4]

EDIT: NM, I'll just get it somewhere else...

[caspian]

I figured out what I was doing wrong...

[Suraknar]

Oki One question about Weapons if I may.

When Loading a Pikeman and when loading a Hoplite, they both have a spear of Same legth...

Yet in Game the Pikes are longer than the spears Hoplites use...

What makes the difference? I verifyed descr_models, (I assumed that there would be a distinction between Pikeman and spearman and some scaling of the same spear model is hapening somewhere)..but they both have same Skelleton animations...

Any clues anyone can give in that regard?

[wlesmana]

Units that has "phalanx" formation in EDU.txt get assigned special pikes. These pikes are taken from a different model entirely (in data/models i think) and they follow their own set of animations.

[Suraknar]

Ahhh! Thank you very much!

So Units without the Phalanx would perform as regular spearmen...with the weapon as per the unit's .CAS model.

Units with Phalanx and Pike, will use the "weapon_hoplite_pike.cas" in models folder...which also has its own animation...(opening that model and comparing, we see clearly that it is a Pike, longer spear)...is his correct?

But, what hapens if a Unit does not use a Pike, but has Phalanx capability...will it use its default Spear as per the Unit's .CAS model?

And if that is the case, then, what accounts for the special animation?

Or, is there yet a third Weapon model somewhere for regular phalanx spears?

Because, there is still one factor unnacounted here, what makes the Phalanx Spear Shorter than the Phalanx Pike (now that we know the Pikes are their own Models with own animation)?

[Suraknar]

Well,

Upon Further testing, I am now realising that Both Phalanx Pike and Phalanx Spear use the same weapon_hoplite_pike.cas.

It still does not answer why Phalanx Pikes are longer than Phalanx Spears...

Except, if we take under consideration the atribute "long_pike" in EDU...so this must be hardcoded somewhere and that attribute makes the same Model Longer in the case of a Pike.

Thank you for the help wlesmana ~:cheers:

[Sundjata Keita]

Yes, you should be able to see that from the pike being longer in game than it was on the actual model.

[jullii caesar]

Is it possible to do this in gmax.

[Sundjata Keita]

Possible to do but not to get into the game unfortunately because g-max lacks the exporting features of 3ds max.

[Robertbobby91]

i keep getting a "-- runtime error: feature not available: "fopen write mode"" when ever i export CAS files but nothing wrong when i import can u please tell me what the hell this is ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:handball: ~:mecry:

[Atilius]

It looks like you're getting an error message from a standard C runtime library which is unusual, and perhaps indicates less-than-sterling coding in the application you're using. The fopen function is a very low-level routine that C programs use to open files. The message is telling you that for some reason it can't write to (or perhaps create) a file. That's why you can import but not export.

This usually indicates one of the following: the file is read-only, your disk isn't writeable, or you're out of disk space.

[Furious Mental]

Whenever I try to give a unit a thrown weapon like a javelin or a plumbatum, they have it in their hand in the game, but they never let go of it, even when they do the throwing animation. As such, it looks a bit silly. Has anyone else had this sort of problem before? Sorry if this is a dumb noob question, but I couldn't find any existing posts on it.

Oh wait, it looks like units have always done that and I just never noticed. It's some issue with the stupid 1.2 patch. Turns out I am a dumb noob!

[TheAlcotroll]

I downloaded a 30-day trial version of 3DS and all seems to be working well. Thanks to the tutorial, I've managed to create a test unit by swapping an Eastern Infantryman's spear for a Barbarian Swordsman's sword. So far so good.

Unfortunately, though the game plays without a problem, the sword model seems to be wearing the skin of the original model's spear. At least, the thing looks wrong, and that's the best explanation I can think of.

In order to start playing with the textures (as per instruction #4 posted by Hoggy back on page one), I downloaded a trial version of Corel Paint Shop Pro X (that mean anything to any-one?)

Unfortunately, I can't find, let alone open any DDS files with it.

Can someone explain to me (in layman's terms perferably) what I need to do in order to find, open and then edit the weapon skins, so that I can sort out this unsightly problem.

[Ciaran]

You need to convert the dds files to something that corel draw can read, like jpg or tga or whatever else. Take a look in the twcenter download section, there should be a dds converter tool. Alternatively, you can use this link: http://www.mnwright.btinternet.co.uk/download/dxtbmpx.EXE
That´s what I use.

[TheAlcotroll]

Thanks for that.

I'm now looking at a bizzairely fragmented collection of images, resembling a Picasso painting. It's not quite what I was expecting.

Now can someone explain to me how this instruction:




-4 Edit the texture (cut and paste) to get right shield texture used.




relates to what I can see.

[hoggy]

The texture page has all the textures associated with the model on it. To conserve space each sections is rotated/moved about etc to fit within the texture page (there is only one per model). Hence Picasso. Because each model can only use one texture your Eastern spear is using the texture of the Barbarian you gave it to.

You need to open the eastern spear texture, select the area of texture used by the spear and paste that into the barbarian swordsman texture over the sword.. It won't neccesarily fit so you may have to jiggle about a bit.

To find which part of the texture page your spear model uses select all it's polygons in poly mode. then in the drop down modifiers select 'unwrap uvs'. Press the edit button to show the UV window. You can print screen this to use as reference.

When you've pasted the spear texture in. you need to move the uvs of the spear so they line up with the texture in your updated texture page.

hope this helps

[RTW King]

Hoggy I opened a unit, and clicked on the rainbow icon. However, no option saying collapse all comes up. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? This is my first attempt at modelling BTW.

[TheAlcotroll]

Thanks for the advice, but I'm afraid I'll have to intrude on your patience again because I'm still having problems with the textures.

I decided to start small with another simple test; only fiddling with the textures file. I used Vercingetorix' extractor to find the textures for the Britanic Warband, and then with the .DDS converter, shipped the file from the Data\Packs folder into a temporary file on the desktop, converting it to .TGA format in the process.

In Corel Paint Shop Pro, I used the filler tool to change the colour of the model's trousers. No fiddling with weapons, no major changes. Simply a replacement of pixels from blue to red.

I then used the .DDS converter to change the file back into .DDS and replace it into it's original folder.


When I ran the game, I could see no changes to the model's skin.

I wondered if I'd made a mistake and not over-written the original file, so I used Vercingetorix' extractor again to look at the .DDS file in it's Data\Packs\Models\etc folder.
When the picture showed up in the right-hand window, I could see the changes I had made, so I was definately using the right file. However, the whole image was tinted blue.

I've no idea why the image was blue, nor do I understand why nether this nor the changes I made have showed up in-game.

Chances are I'm making some elementary mistake somewhere along the line, but I can't see any clues in the various tutorials knocking around on this site and others.

Can anyone spot what I'm doing wrong?

[Narayanese]

When I ran the game, I could see no changes to the model's skin. Maybe it still uses the compressed texture in the .pak file. Change the name of your texture to something else, and change the texture path in models_battle.txt to that name.

[TheAlcotroll]

Sounds plausible, I'll have a go.

But what about that blue colour?

[hoggy]

TheAlcotroll - Blue? hmm...don't know sorry. I can only assume something has happened in your texture conversion process. sorry. Have you got the texture appearing in game yet?

RTW King - to 'collapse all' right click on the stack item you want to collapse and a menu drops down. So for example if you want to get rid of skinning. right click on the +skin level in the stack in the white window.

[RTW King]

How do you select vertices?

[TheAlcotroll]

The texture does indeed appear in game, and I've managed to deal with the blue problem as well. You're right in saying that the problem is linked to the conversion process, and for anyone who has the same problem as me, this is how I delt with it:

When viewed in .TGA format there's nothing wrong, but when viewed in the picture window in Vercingetorix' .DDS converter, after conversion to .DDS, the altered files appear blue.

Now. In the converter, above the right-hand window that shows what the file looks like, are a series of numbers. They are: Size, Mipmap number, Colour depth, Compression and Colour number.

Comparing the original texture for a Scythan Head-Hunting Maiden and an altered one (axe replaced with a sword), I notice that both colour number and compression have changed, while everything else remains un-changed.

The original HHM's colour number is 6275, and compression is DXT5.
The altered HHM's colour number is 3732, and compression is DXT3.

That may as well be in Welsh to me. But if you look in the options menu in the converter, on the right-hand side in the .DDS box, you'll see these sub-headings: Producer, DXTc format, and Options.

When I changed Producer to nVidia instead of S3 and set the DXTc format to DXT5 instead of DXT3 which it had defaulted to, everything went swimmingly.

I feel like a monkey writing Shakespere by hitting random keys, but I'm happy with the result none the less.

Now to load up the game and see whether or not I've altered weapons successfuly...

[RTW King]

I gave the Celtic Warlord (BI) an Iberian Infantry's head. When I load, the model is fine, but the skinning is totally mucked up. They have metal capes, a cape battern on their chest, and a tartan shield, as well as other mistakes. Are there any tutorials on UV Mapping?

[hoggy]

Skinning in Max is the weighting of vertices to bones rather than anything to do with textures. To get a better idea of how Max works it's probably worth spending some time doing Max tutorials. Most of the tutorials in this section are designed specifically for modding RTW units rather than for teaching how to use Max.

[Hans Kloss]

Here is another question hoggy : making half armoured horse for cataphract units.Something like that this one on the picture:

https://img479.imageshack.us/img479/7259/sassanianheavycavalry7xv.jpg

Sometimes ago I remember seeing covered horse in MTW Chivalry mod.Looking as horses models in max.Is it possible to merge model of normal horse with cataphract one ?

[hoggy]

In theory, yes. The principle is the same as head swapping. You might need to do a bit more tidying up around the join though and are more likely to have to re-skin/weight the model.

[killerxguy]

How do i link a shield/weapon to a bone?

[hoggy]

If you open your schematic window.. (in Graph Editors/New schematic view.)

- You'll see all the contents of your scene laid out as nodes in here. (Sometimes the heirarchy of the skeleton is collapsed you just need to keep clicking on the little arrows under the nodes till you see the bone you want)

- go to Edit/connect in the schematic menu and then drag your weapon or shield onto your bone.

that's it.

[killerxguy]

Sorry due to the huge # of buttons i cant find "graph editors" sorry to bother u butplease tell me where it is, many thanks for the help!

[hoggy]

the menus on the top menu bar of max.

alternatively look for the icon at the top right of Max with two yellow rectangles on top of each other.

[Burns]

Hoggy, I've got a question. When applying verdices to the bone segments, what is the best method to get the model to work fluidly. Say I take an arm. I include the vertexes that attach it to the body, all the way down to the elbow joint, then the elbow joint to the vertexes that encompass the joint in the hand, the hand gets "the tips" for itself. I've ran into some problems where the animations did not look right. Now, what is the process you use to get the most fluent animations possible? How do you usually do legs?

Also:http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczyk/peglegs.JPG

How do i copy one of the legs and place them where they need to go without copying the entire model?
How do I reconnect parts so that they're all part of the body and not separate pieces?

[ShapolioKhan]

Swapping Weapons and shields:

-1 import CAS with shield you want to keep. select shield and click on 'unlink selection' button (top left). Then File - Save Selected. Save the shield with whatever name you like.
-2 New scene. Import the model you want to take the new shield. Delete the existing shield from the model. File - merge, to merge in the shield you saved out in step 1. click on use scene's material. Go into schematic view and link the shield back to left hand (click 'link selection' button top left and drag the shield node onto the left hand node).
-3 export the CAS
-4 Edit the texture (cut and paste) to get right shield texture used.

Same process for weapons.

i did what guide tells me to do.
everytthing ok but, texture, i couldnot make it work.
adding the picture, can someone help? cuz am tired of trying what ifs....
(God,i'd add screenshot of my unit, but i couldnot add attachment)
if i need to describe, i merged a longsword to a legionarie's hand, buttexture of the sword is looking like the dress of the legionary, hope i could describe..

thanks to you all...

[killerxguy]

Q1)How do i make extra items like a flag on a spear??

Q2) How do i put animations ingame, for example i made an animation and i wanna pack it, how??

Q3)how do i make a certain idol/charge animation be for a certain unit?


if u answer those questions ill kiss your feet ;) but please man, many thanks!

[hoggy]

Burns - Ok. I tend to weight all the verts to the torso to start with then:

head = all verts above the neck but not the verts in the collar.
upper arm = all but the join to the torso
lower arm = the central and lower elbow vert and down to wrist
hand = all hand plus wrist joint
pelvis = everything below waist
upper leg = depends a lot on model but extends down to top level of knee joint
lower leg = lower knee joint and ankle
feet = just feet no ankle.

There's still alot of trial and error with models and unfortunately the limited nature of lo-poly models with 1 vert/bone set up means they struggle to look really good.

- you can detatch the leg from the body and use the 'mirror' modifier with 'copy' ticked. the in object mode 'attach' (found in right hand button section) all objects back to the main body

ShapolioKhan
You need to edit the texture (as in section 4) using an art package such as photoshop or paintshop pro so that your sword looks correct. You can cut and paste your sword texture from your original file to the legionaire


killerxguy
- erm blimey. well the flag on the spear you have to model and texture in Max and then re-export using the cas exporter.
Animation is another tutorial altogether. Bwian is currently working on an in depth tutorial for this topic and I wouldn't be much help.

[ShapolioKhan]

dear hoggy,

i did edit the texture.
can u pls tell me how to add pics to my post?so u can understand my prob. easily..
thank you..

[hoggy]

you need to have uploaded your image to a site online first then:

linktoimageoninternet

[Burns]

Hi hoggy, thanks for the timely reply. Im having a kind of annoying problem with vertexes:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczyk/vertexproblems.JPG

I'm not sure what Im doing wrong. I want to take that selected vertex and connect it to the bottom vertex I've tried doing it with the snap tool, but that hasnt formed a bond where those two vertexes are replaced by only one. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt, argh.

[ShapolioKhan]

you need to have uploaded your image to a site online first then:

linktoimageoninternet

hi hoggy,

couldnt add my pic like you told :(

maybe this link can be helpfull for you to see my model..

stay welll..
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=5593

[ShapolioKhan]

i also couldnt find "edit" button for my previous post, sorry moderators but im new in this forum...

dear hoggy, i also add battlefield look pf my unit, you'll see how weird the swords are..
i edited texture and tried some things. i masked firstly the secondery weapon sword, then masked primary weapon sword, but unit at the bat.field didn change, and i couldnt und. why?????

thanks for ur helps and ur replies....(for everyone)

[ShapolioKhan]

link=
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=5681

[hoggy]

Burns - you need to merge vertices after you place two on top of each other. It's in the right hand options area. for RTW models set the tolerance to about 0000.1 and click merge verts. Otherwise 'collapse' is good but it makes the two vert meet in the middle.



ShapolioKhan - your swords are using the right texture so it must be the uvs. In the drop down modifier menu on the right find 'unwrap uvs' then hit 'edit'. This opens the uv window. In here you can match the uvs to the texture for you sword. (The transparency you are getting in game is a seperate issue with alpha channels on your texture which should be fixed once your uvs are ok.) ps. I'm struggling to understand some of your posts so please bear with me if I'm not giving the correct answers.

[ShapolioKhan]

Burns - you need to merge vertices after you place two on top of each other. It's in the right hand options area. for RTW models set the tolerance to about 0000.1 and click merge verts. Otherwise 'collapse' is good but it makes the two vert meet in the middle.



ShapolioKhan - your swords are using the right texture so it must be the uvs. In the drop down modifier menu on the right find 'unwrap uvs' then hit 'edit'. This opens the uv window. In here you can match the uvs to the texture for you sword. (The transparency you are getting in game is a seperate issue with alpha channels on your texture which should be fixed once your uvs are ok.) ps. I'm struggling to understand some of your posts so please bear with me if I'm not giving the correct answers.
dear hoggy,

thaks for your guidence.
i did the uvw thing, and realized that the model of sword is corrupted.i mean one side is ok but other side is unavaliable. interesting that it came with original game :)
anyway, i'll find another longsowrd to put there, and then i'll do uvw..
thanks for your answers, they were all correct :)

stay well as a good teacher of us...
Kaan

[Burns]

Thanks hoggy. Ok, hopefully my last question: In professor420's modelling tutorial, he uses symmetry to mirror and weld together a cape. Now Ive been trying to do something like that to put together this head: http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczyk/monsterhead.JPG
What is the best method for mirroring the head but also having the two pieces connected?

[hoggy]

I tend to use the 'mirror' modifier with 'copy' ticked. In some versions of Max you need to attach mirrored objects afterwards. You still need to weld the verts to get a clean join after you have mirrored. I've not used symetry much so I couldn't tell you which is better.

[Burns]

Yeah mirror will do the trick.

[Goscinio]

I'm having a problem with 3DS (as many others, i'm sure). I recently made a new moddel, and everything went fine. Exporting worked without a difficulty, and the unit behaved as normal as possible in-game.But when i try to import my model in 3DS, i get this error:

http://images5.theimagehosting.com/3DS Problem.JPG (http://www.theimagehosting.com)

what did i do wrong?

[hoggy]

urk.. mm not sure sorry. Not seen that before. Any one else encountered this? Have you got the most up to date Cas tool? I must admit I don't tend to re-import my cas' I just save the max scene and change and re-export that.

[Goscinio]

I do that to, but my mod leader (Nero666 from Rise of Persia) tried to import it, and then it gave the error. Anyway, he fixed it, don't know how just yet though

[Burns]

Hi again hoggy. I've got a question on uv mapping (I've gotten a fair grasp of modelling :)). What kind of procedure is best for RTW models? I've seen things where only half a model is used to create the UV maps while other times the whole model. I guess the point of this is that I'd like some tips when creating uv maps, particularily methods of doing so.

[hoggy]

The best tip is probably to look at the way RTW models do it. they group their uv sets quite well. I usually use projection mapping.

basic process is. select polys, detach to element, uv map, unwrap uvs, open uv editor and tweak uvs, print screen, collapse stack, into photoshop, paste crop and resize, copy and paste onto your texture and use as a layer at high opacity.

a couple of variations:
- select the polys on the model you want to map ie the face. Do a front projection on the face. open the edit uv window and select the uvs on the right hand side of the face and flip them horizontally. line these up with the ones on the left. Tweak the uv on the side of the cheeks so the texture doesn't stretch.
or - with just half a model. select the face polys you want to map. detatch the face as a seperate object. projection map it. mirror the object and weld verts. then reattach to the rest of the object. This avoids the seam down the front of the face.

Other tips.
- Do your textures twice the size and reduce at the end.
- Leave a couple of pixels bleed on all your uv sets so that when the texture mipmaps you dont see the neighboring texture bleed into it.
- plan where everything is going to go in your head before you start.
- in render/environment turn the ambient to white as this is what the game's level of brightness is.

erm, any more anyone? If you get stuck at all give us a shout anyway.

[killerxguy]

hey Hoggy i have a question: How do i apply a cloth peice to a model, like i want a huge flag which waved, how do i do that; will implimenting a cloth collection do the trick?

[hoggy]

RTW doesn't support cloth physics. the best you can do at the moment I think is to make a solid unmoving flag out of polys and attach it to one of the unit bones. If you create a whole new set of animations it may be possible to weight the flag to bones and animate it but it would be a big job.

[killerxguy]

Thanks hoggy, but can anyone tell me how to apply skin modifiers to a model properly (i know how to apply it but i get errors that its not properly applied)?

[blindfaithnogod]

take a look at this thread
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44451

[Njord's Heir]

Hey there. I've downloaded the CAS import and export plug-in. However, I have run into a wee bit of a problem. In order to activate it, I read I have to to go under the 'Utilities' tab and press RUN SCRIPT. From there, I double click on the CAS import and export file. According to what I have seen and read, it should work, but an error is always reporting and keeping me from starting all the fun. This is it:

MAXScript FileIn Exception

-- Syntax error: at bad, expected <factor>
-- In line: PK

[OK]

After the 'PK' comes a symbol that looks like this: LJ and then following that is a paragraph sign. Also to note, the script is just a frenzy of symbols, letters, and numbers. Any idea what this means? How can I fix it? Is there something bad with the download? I have it saved as a .zip file. Should I save it as a different file? What did you guys do? Pleeeeaaase, help me.

Cordially,
Njord's Heir

[Burns]

Thanks for the skinning tips hoggy. One question that kind of boggles me. Say I take the head of a model, I uv map the face, then the side and back separately, how then do I merge the two together. This goes for all the various bits like arms, weapons, pauldrons and so forth. I've tried taking one of the uvs and copying it into another one but that doesnt appear to have worked. Tips?

[Tittils]

Burns,
First, detach all the different elements you want to UV map. Then UV map each element and drag the UVW unwrap map out of the center. Do this to every element. When you're done with one element, right click on it and convert to editable poly. Do this for every element. When you're done UV mapping everything, select one of the object, and attach all the other objects to it. Then UVW unwrap and you have all the different UV maps in one map. Just drag them into the places you want them to and you got yourself an UV map;)
Hope this helps.

- Tittils -

[Burns]

Cool, I understand.

I usually increase the model size to 2000 times that of an RTW model. When I export the model I decrease the size back to the stock RTW model using 'Select and Uniform Scale'. I've been noticing that when I add a skin I can no longer re-size the model down. Is the only way around this to give the model a skin when the model is sized down already?

[Burns]

Fellas, thank you so much for the help and advice:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczyk/amrothfoot_new2.JPG

But one thing is annoying me when exporting models:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczyk/error_message2.JPG

The UV map screws up after I export the model. Any ways of preventing this from happening?

[blindfaithnogod]

you need to detach the arms and head as elements.

[Burns]

I've tried to get it proper the last day with no effect. While exporting I also get the following error message which I think may be tied to the uv screwup and other model issues:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczyk/error_message.JPG

Is it simply that there is no dds file that is connected to this model?

[dclare4]

Is it possible to have the model have two weapons - I think in some pictures posted I see that this is the case - so that he uses one weapon like a spear for shock action (or a bow for ranged) and the other weapon like a sword for melee? I just want to know if it's possible.

Thanks,
de Clare

[killerxguy]

Alin's thread didnt help me make skin modifiers work, what did he mean drag and drop (something like that), if i know how to make skin modifiers work i can make models from scratch!

[hoggy]

Burns - it certainly looks like it's having a problem with your material there. Is it a .dds? Is it the right size? You should only have one material/texture per model so no multi-sub required....

dclare4 - yes, a unit can have primary weapon and secondary weapons.

killerxguy - em, which thread by Alin? Check standard Max tutorials for skinning or post here if you have a specific problem.

[killerxguy]

Thanks, I'll post my specific problems:-

Ok i can make the skin modifier, and go to edit envl. or click verticies or what ever but i cant seem to wiegh verticies and link 'em to each specific bone, If you have a way to do this (preferably fast) please tell me. Hope it doesnt involve 2 hrs. of draging..etc, alot of thanks to you hoggy, i really really apreciate your help

[Burns]

Making a skin and linking is actually simple work after a bit of practice. What I do to make life easier is open a second Max scene and import a Rome model and see how they set the bones up. Basically, look how they set their bones and you'll usually get the best effect. Also, below the vertices option are two more checked boxes, make sure those are unchecked. Ok, so you select a bunch of verts, select a corresponding bone from the list, torso pelvis, elbow whatever, then scroll down to where you weigh them. Input 1 in the field - if 1.0 is already present then set it to 0 - AND THEN input 1 - if you see the bones change colour to red you know it worked properly.

[killerxguy]

thanks i'll start practicing now, hope it works

[killerxguy]

i triedto, it takes ages, and alot of mistakes are done!

[dclare4]

Hi Hoggy,

Well, that's good to know. Is there like a switch that will tell the computer which one is primary or secondary? I'm afraid I don't know that much about modelling but a friend is working on models that I texture and I'd like them to have primary and secondary weapons.

Thanks,
de Clare

[hoggy]

You need to create both models ie bow and spear. Name one 'primary weapon' and the other 'secondary weapon' and then link them to their respective bones ie. sword primary weapon is linked to the right hand. Then you need to edit the entries for your unit in descr_model_battle and export_descr_unit to get the unit to use both weapons.

[dclare4]

Thanks very, very, very much Hoggy!

By the way, I kind of suspect some modifications crash because you can't mix spear and archer types or something like that - types that don't have one or the other type of animation? Just wanted to be sure about that - y'see in ZTW we'll be having units of gun armed infantry led by sergeants with spontoons (pikes), musicians (with bugle, drum or bagpipe) and lieutenants (with swords) and in fire combat the collected officers are not supposed to fire. Sometimes it seems to work (if I use the same model with retexturing it seems to work), but other times it doesn't. Also if I 'fire' the officers will fire along with the rest of the unit right? I'm wondering if this might be problematic for the unit.

You DA MAN Hoggy!
Harlechman (Clare)

[Burns]

It might be that they're officers. Ive seen few mods where officers have two weapons so not sure on that one.

[dclare4]

Well I'll do some more experimentation and I've passed that info along to our modeller. Thanks guys!

Clare (Harlechman, Zulu Total War team)

[Burns]

I've got another issue this time with horses. I have added reins to the horse model. What I originally tried was adding them to the model and then skinning the newly added verts to head and neck bones. When I exported the model came out broken... just totally messy. My second approach I detached the reins and linked them to the (I believe) neck bone. the model exported perfectly, however when I tried running it in BI, the thing has managed to ctd without error. Are there things I am unaware of when modifying the mounts?

[hoggy]

I've not tried adding extra objects to horses before so I can't help there. I added reins by attaching and reskinning the whole horse (although I built a new horse too) Doesn't solve your problem though.

[Burns]

I guess I might just scrap that idea and save a few polies. Btw, how do I scale down the model to make a lower poly version in the quickest way, at least?

[BHCWarman88]

I need some Help. How do I use it?? I'm don't know how to actually have it started..

[BHCWarman88]

I need help with Vercingetorix's CAS extractor,but if you could help me with that one and xpax, or w/e it called, I'll would apparcite it..

[nickpes]

3. Select all the vertices in the model and hit ‘weld selected’ in the options on the right making sure the value is set to 0.00001 (approximately ) This makes the model into one continuous element rather that many different ones.
How do I select all the verticles in the model? Is there any screenshot for that?

Thanks

[hoccalugee]

while in vertex editing mode you can press ctrl + A this will select all the vertices. unselected vertices are blue, selected vertices are red. y.ou can also draw a box around the whole model to select all of the vertices, but make sure you are using the right cursor, ie a selection cursor or a move/resize/rotate cursor

to enter vertex editing mode you need to select your mesh, then go to the 'modify' panel, remember the panel on the right with the icon that looks like half a blue rainbow. below where it says 'modifier list' there is a white box where it says 'editable mesh' with a '+' sign in front of it. click the plus sign and you will see a list 'vertex, edge, face, polygon, element'. click on vertex so it becomes hilighted in yellow. now you are in edit vertex mode.

[BHCWarman88]

how do I get Vercingetorix's CAS extractor, cuz I have to downloaded into a RTW folder and on my own Folder,but don't know how to have it works though..

[dclare4]

Would it be possible to modify the files with Milkshape 3D? Would it be possible with an older version of Milkshape? Do you still need Vercingetorix's CAS extractor (would it work with Milkshape)? Or do you still need models to be converted with 3D Studio?

Thanks,
Clare (Harlechman)

[nickpes]

while in vertex editing mode you can press ctrl + A this will select all the vertices. unselected vertices are blue, selected vertices are red. y.ou can also draw a box around the whole model to select all of the vertices, but make sure you are using the right cursor, ie a selection cursor or a move/resize/rotate cursor

to enter vertex editing mode you need to select your mesh, then go to the 'modify' panel, remember the panel on the right with the icon that looks like half a blue rainbow. below where it says 'modifier list' there is a white box where it says 'editable mesh' with a '+' sign in front of it. click the plus sign and you will see a list 'vertex, edge, face, polygon, element'. click on vertex so it becomes hilighted in yellow. now you are in edit vertex mode.

Ok,I'm done with the Welt selected,and what I see is this,shouldn;t I be able to see the skin?

https://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6922/skintest7mk.th.jpg (https://img51.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skintest7mk.jpg)

[hoggy]

dclare - I don't believe Milkshape will work, sorry.

nickpes - i think you need to look in closer at your model. hold cntrl and alt and middle drag to pan in. If you still can't see it let me know.

[wlesmana]

Hoggy> might be a tanget question, but how do you do Raytracing render? I'm trying to make a portfolio of my models and I'd like to show them in the best possible light, like a lot of the more experienced 3dsmax users are able to do. They seem to be able to put a ground and shadows of the model.

I tried 3dsmax's help files but none of them give better rendering techniques other than the usual render screen.

Thanks!

[BHCWarman88]

Would it be possible to modify the files with Milkshape 3D? Would it be possible with an older version of Milkshape? Do you still need Vercingetorix's CAS extractor (would it work with Milkshape)? Or do you still need models to be converted with 3D Studio?

Thanks,
Clare (Harlechman)


I have it on my comp, I don't know where to save it at so it can run..

[Burns]

Place in 3dmax's 'scripts' folder. In 3dmax go to the utilities tab (the Hammer), click on MaxScript, then hit 'Run script' in the open window find Verx's tool (cas_ie_b69). Double click it. Then finally, in the little utilities bar where it says "convert to mr..." click that and pick RTW import export and you're ready to go from there.

[dclare4]

How about if someone with 3D Studio gets the model - I work on it in Milkshape - and I send it back for conversion to game format?

Clare (Harlechman)

[BHCWarman88]

. In 3dmax go to the utilities tab (the Hammer), click on MaxScript, then hit 'Run script' in the open window find Verx's tool (cas_ie_b69). Double click it. Then finally, in the little utilities bar where it says "convert to mr..." click that and pick RTW import export and you're ready to go from there.


where is the 3dmax's 'scripts' folderI get the Last Sentance, but dummy it down alittle, cuz I'm a Vertean to TW games, but a Noobie to Mods, so I need some time to learn this stuff,lol//

[Burns]

C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3dsMax\... or wherever you installed it to. If you really want to learn to model check out Professor's modelling videos because very useful visual tools. they should be somewhere on the first page of the Scriptorium.

[satanea juda]

those links are dead

[BHCWarman88]

I don't need videos, cuz I'm a fast learner, so I can learn to model fast

but...

so let me get this right

I download it and save it to C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3dsMax\

right??

I just need to know the actual File I need to download it to and install so I can use it, I'm a dummy, so this may take awhile lol..

[BHCWarman88]

ok, I extacted the files to C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3dsMax\......

so what do I do now....????

[Burns]

See if you saw the video you would know where to point, sometimes learning by watching someone else do it is more useful than scratching one's head.

In 3dmax go to the utilities tab (the Hammer), click on MaxScript,
then

click the 'Run script' button and in the opened window find Verx's tool (cas_ie_b69) (place it in scripts folder to make it easier for yourself). Double click it. Then finally, in the little utilities bar where it says "convert to mr..." click that and pick RTW import export and you're ready to go from there. The rest should be self explanatory I think.

Then you can import models that are in either /bi/data/models_unit or data/models_unit.

[BHCWarman88]

nvm, I don't even know what I'm doing, and I got 56K, so the videos who suck....

[wagtailcello]

hello, id love some help please. Ive been skinning some of the rtw models for a while now but hit a problem. I want to decrease the SHADING on the actual model themselves because it tends to spoil bitmap colours i produce in the tga files e.g on the model for unit_greek_sacred_band_v2_400.CAS the bottom of skirt is much lighter (nice for my colours) where as for the model for unit_roman_peasant_high.CAS is much darker (ruins my colours). Ive got the 3ds max trial version and ive imported the models, can someone help? :wall: ps i have no modelling experience https://img345.imageshack.us/img345/7167/image110ml.th.jpg (https://img345.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image110ml.jpg)

[hoggy]

Select the model then go to poly mode. Select all the polys of the character. Scroll down the options on the right til you get to surface properties. In the box next to Auto Smooth type 65 then hit auto smooth. this should fix it. If not let me know.

[wagtailcello]

Thanks Hoggy, that has done the trick, wonderful, much appreciated :2thumbsup:

[Ciaran]

Since this tutorial has been written quite a while ago, is there anything that changed because of patch 13./1.5? I´m wondering because from 1.3 on my models_battle folder has a text file named "attatchments". Is that in some way important?

[Burns]

Good question, it doesnt appear to affect models.

[Sina]

Okay here are some questions:

1- Why collapse the skin modifier? You can to mesh below (although it says there may be some problems, I assume if you add no new vertices no problem occurs), edit your model using existing models. It works fine if you make no radical changes I assume. Even if you add something, you can still go to the skin stack and assign it to a bone can't you?

2- When I tried to reassign the vertices to the bones it said something about weight of bones (it was a problem that occured in the cloak part), I can't seem to remember it but it was (I assume about) one vertex per joint policy. Can some one please explain me what that means?

3- I texture the models using unwrap and .dds files but when I export them and play the game the original texture shows up (the one in the pack I assume), how can I fix that?

4- Using multires and restricting some vertexes from changing could help to chop down polies wouldn't it? Has anybody tried that?

I suppose that is all for now thanks.

[Sina]

Another question, if I imported a model from 1.0 and used it for say 1.2 would it cause a problem?

Which brings up a second question not about modelling directly. I have uninstalled rtw but some files remained. For some reason I had to delete them manually (I guess they were logs), and now after I installed rtw whenever I try to patch it with 1.2, it says the patch is already installed (I can install 1.1 and all others though). How can I fix that? (since most mods work with 1.2)

[Ciaran]

I can answer question three of yours, if you don´t change the name on the texture (and the path in descr_model_battle) then the game browses the .pak files where the original textures are stored. The solution is simple: Just change the texture name and edit descr_model_battle and there you go.


Another question, if I imported a model from 1.0 and used it for say 1.2 would it cause a problem?
I don´t think so, as long as you just use the model. I´ve used a model of the Middle Earth TW demo (which was made for 1.1) in a 1.2 version to test whether it worked, and it did without problems. Animations, however, seem to be very reliant on the game version. Using an animation pack designed for another version seems to cause units to run about like mad. But don´t hold me responsible if anything goes wrong.

[Sina]

Another problem, I made the model exported into the game and it worked fine (I added some new vertices without collapsing the skin modifier and then assigned those vertices to a bone), and when I tried to import it it gave the following error and imported a blob of meaningless meshes. Another fact is that when I was importing the original model (I used a falxman) it said it was of an old version and could cause problems.

https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/odedfehr/error.jpg

[Sina]

Okay I figured out the problem. It seems if you delete the weapon instead of replacing it with another, it gives this error.

[Sina]

Yet another question, is it possible to do non-symmetric mapping on the body of a unit? The body is a whole peace as you know and if you want to map it non-symmetrically you have to detach the vertexes of each side in uvw editor. You can do all these and apply the texture but when you export this unit as a model, the exporter reattaches those vertexes and changes uvw coordinates messing up everything. Does anyone know how to fix this? Thanks.

[Burns]

It works fine if you uvm all the parts, convert them to poly, reattach and then unwrap uv so you get all the pieces together.

I'd still like to know the procedure for creating lower poly models from a high poly model. Do I merely link some of the verts together? confused.

[Sina]

On modelling, how do we assing secondary weapons to archers and those with javelin? WHen you edit them on the model and export them, both the primary and the secondary weapon show on screen. Thanks.

[blindfaithnogod]

one would need to be named primary weapon and one needs to be named secondary weapon... they can be no differant

[BHCWarman88]

"Save the script to your 3dsmax\scripts folder"

that what in the Readme..

two Questions........

1.do I extact the files there
2.it saids that Path is invaild.. Do I have to get the program from a website or something,that 3dsmax thing??

[hoggy]

I'm not sure what you mean BHCWarman88. You need to have a copy of 3DS Max, you then copy Verc's extractor tool to the scripts folder. In max you go the hammer icon on the far right, MaxScript / Run script and select the cas exporter. then open the drop down below run script. You can extract files anywhere but you normally extract cas files for units to the models_unit folder in data.