Out of character thread IV

[econ21]

This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.


*************KOTR FAQ (UPDATED)**********************

The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

Introduction

The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

How to Join the Game

In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383644&postcount=2).

The Ranks

KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

Electors

All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

Counts

Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

Dukes

Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

Emperor (Kaiser)

The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

Prince (Prinz)

The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

Chancellor

The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


***************KOTR GAME RULES**************

Game settings

*Patched MT2TW
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

The only mod we will use initially is trait and ancillary files created by factionheir, available to download at:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix101a.rar

The readme is in the spoiler tags.


KOTRfixREADME.txt
-
START OF README
-


This package contains 2 folders and 5 files, one of which is the readme you are currently reading.
I have included folders as this will make it easier for you to figure where a file is to go and prevent errors.
As you can see, one folder is named "data" and another one inside this data folder is labelled "text"
To install the fixes, simply extract/move the data folder directly from the package into your root medieval directory.
This means that after doing so, you should find following files in your medieval/data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt

And a folder in your data folder named "text"
Inside that folder, you should find:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


You do not need to extract the readme, as this is purely informational for this installation only.

In short (for the impatient and to quick check):

-Extract data folder directly into medieval game directory.
-Make sure your medieval directory now has a data folder (already present before extracting) and a text folder within (usually not present before)
-Make sure the following files are found inside the data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt
-Make sure the following files are found inside the text folder:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


Now to apply those fixes, you will need to run your medieval game exe using a shortcut or a bat file.
The target of said file should read similar to this:

D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Where "D:\Medieval\" varies depending on your installation but medieval2.exe --io.file_first should be constant.

If you encounter any issues with my fixes, please let me know via any means you feel necessary and I will investigate.
As per current version, there are no errors showing up in the medieval error log that are from these fixes.

Also note that those fixes work retroactively in any savegame and at the same time also allow a savegame to continue working without the fixes installed.
As such, it is perfectly safe to use and will not necessitate its continued usage once a game is started.
However as per Charter Amendment 6.2 for the KOTR PBM, this fix is to be used by the chancellor currently running the game.

I hope you enjoy the fixes and if you have problems or suggestions, please let me know.

FactionHeir



At a later stage, we may use a mod to handle the 2-handed weapon bug and give the Forlorn Hope 2 hitpoints, but those should be savegame compatible. And I'd rather CA fix that through a patch than we use a mod.

To increase the difficulty, the AI will periodically be given money via the consol. Details in the spoil.

I plan to give 100000 gold to the AI each Diet (ie every 10 turns). The command for this is:

add_money hungary, 100000

The factions which will benefit initially are:

england
france
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary

The Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs may be included at a later stage.



Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]
1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.
1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.
1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.
1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.
1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose THREE House edicts per Diet provided that they have previously securing the backing of two other members of their House.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +5 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 3 points):
Duke: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

Charter Amendment 6.7: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.

Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.


5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


6. Armies and Battles

Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:

1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

8. Historical armies

The following rules apply for field armies of 15+ or more units.

Generals - max 2 units
Knights - cavalry or foot, max 8 units inc. generals
[The class of knights is therefore: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights included those great dismounted knights you get in the Holy Land.)

Total cavalry - maximum 8 units, inc mounted knights and generals
[Non-knightly cavalry includes: Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants]

Artillery - maximum 2 units (5 in a siege - if caught in a field battle immediately withdraw excess of over two)
Foot missiles - maximum 6 units including artillery
[Foot missiles include: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners ]

Total elite heavy infantry - max 6
[Elite infantry comprises Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass?]

Other spears & feudal foot - unlimited
[This includes: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia]

For armies of size 7-14, the above limits are halved.

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

[econ21]

We currently have a Bavarian avatar unassigned, Conrad Salier:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1477551&postcount=16

nazgul3 and lilirishman1986 did not vote or speak at the last Diet, so Conrad is free.

If any player without an avatar wishes to switch to the House of Bavaria and claim Conrad, please speak now. At some stage, we will have more avatars than players so if you would like to play as Conrad until your preferred House has an avatar for you, that would be fine.

Otherwise, I propose we use Conrad like a Captain until and unless a player (whether nazgul3, lilirishman1986 or anyone else) claims him.

[FactionHeir]

econ: you linked incorrectly to my fix :p What you actually linked to is the savegame uploaded by GH lol

[GeneralHankerchief]

Are lilirishman and nazgul3 the only avatar-less Bavarians?

[Stuperman]

I haven't seen either for like a week, but yeah I think so.

[FactionHeir]

me thinks GH is wanting that avatar once Heinrich dies :p

[econ21]

me thinks GH is wanting that avatar once Heinrich dies

That would be fine by me.

[TevashSzat]

I do want an avatar, but I'll stick to House of Swabia instead of switching and just wait for mine

[OverKnight]

GH. TinCow and myself in the same house? :evilgrin:

The Gods themselves would tremble.

Seriously, any applications for the open position in the noble House of Bavaria would be appreciated. We have a wonderful dental plan, flex time and free Pizza for everyone on Wednesdays.

[Kagemusha]

When did charter amendments started to need 2/3rds majority?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kage - since always. :yes:

Everyone else - My preference *was* Austria, and I don't think it's fair that I get a second avatar while others are still waiting for their first. So I'll only take Conrad if nobody else wants him.

[nazgul3]

sorry havent been around guys. I have been in chicago for a week for a conference and then my fan broke so i am kinda without a computer for a while.

[Kagemusha]

Thanks GH.I should have then made the proposal as edict.I may not continue when Dietrich will die,or maybe i will,or not.

[Warluster]

Wow, another OCC thread already!

[econ21]

Thanks GH.I should have then made the proposal as edict.

Given the substance of the proposal - Dukes and Counts giving up their powers - I think it could only have been a Charter Amendment.


I may not continue when Dietrich will die,or maybe i will,or not.

I hope you continue. :bow: This will be a long game; it's only just getting going, IMO.

[FactionHeir]

Interesting developments Ituralde. I wonder what our chances are for taking out Henri using the 2 assassins we got parked right next to him.
Have you gotten around to training our spy inside Dijon yet btw? Might help getting rid of the French spy there.
I also think that the Hungarians are dangerously close to Vienna. I bet they'll attack it soon (or be tempted to anyway) unless that garrison is bolstered, but then we kind of want them to attack, no? :)

Btw:
Anyone taking bets on how long Andreas will be staying pope? ;)

[Warluster]

isn't ti that you can only train units if the Count of the settlement requests so, or Duke/kaiser/Chancellor?

I'd bet Andrea stays Pope for a few monthes/weeks/days.

[FactionHeir]

Realtime or gametime?

And I think TC also hired troops just like that for household armies. Not sure as for garrison.

[econ21]

isn't ti that you can only train units if the Count of the settlement requests so, or Duke/kaiser/Chancellor?

Training units is up to the Chancellor. It would have been nice to delegate some of this, but in practice in the trial run through under Lucjan, it just slowed things down and made it too complex. The Charter Amendment about Household Armies does impose some obligations on the Chancellor in terms of keeping these up to strength.

[TinCow]

Ituralde, for settlements that you don't have a build queue for, you are allowed to build whatever you want. I did this regularly.

[ArchdukeEvan]

well i guess the main thing to come from waiting for build ques would be that our surplus money would go up... and thats not horrible...

[FactionHeir]

I think more florins get lost due to corruption (finance report) the more you have in the 'bank'.
Didn't test that hypothesis but I could imagine that happening

[ArchdukeEvan]

that maybe plausible... but gosh... i must be losing millions to corruption in some of my games... lol
edit:if that is true that is

[Stuperman]

I thought corruption was "measured" be the distance to capital of the city, and the personality of the Govoner of said settlement?

[ArchdukeEvan]

i have heard... (in history)... of ppl skimming off the edges of gold coins and bars, to make some money... so it seems historicaly possible... lol

[Ituralde]

Ituralde, for settlements that you don't have a build queue for, you are allowed to build whatever you want. I did this regularly.

Yeah well actually I ran out of cash with all the other construction and recruitment so there wasn't too much left to build in those settlements without build queues. So I let them be as a reminder to the responsible Counts. :evil:
This doesn't mean I will continue it throughout my Chancellorship though.

[econ21]

I realise now I got Metz and Dijon mixed up: I posted a build queue for Dijon, when it is Warluster's and did not post one for Metz, thinking it was his. Looking at Metz now, it seems to want for nothing so I am happy to leave it open. Warluster can change the Dijon build queue, although hopefully it is uncontroversial.

[Warluster]

I PM'ed a Build Queue to Ituralde, which is exactly the same as what you posted econ21 only changed it so it was a bit updated.

[AussieGiant]

Hi All,

Just "checking in" this weekend to see how things are going before I return back to work and back into the game.

Things are going well as usual. There is a hell of a lot of reading to do these days as everyone seems to be pumping out great contributions all around.

Have a good weekend all and I'll be back "On line" Tuesday next week.


Cheers
AG

[FactionHeir]

I really envy people who get to play at work.

[Jalf]

Oooh, the upcoming expansion looks neat :D

[GeneralHankerchief]

Excellent Gah-zette write-up, TinCow. :yes: With any luck we may see a couple of new faces in here soon.

[TinCow]

Hopefully it will bring more people to the Throne Room in general. Next month, in addition to the game updates, I'm going to include a short article on how to start a successful PBM.

[FactionHeir]

I just tested the totalwar.org upload facility on whether TosaInu fixed it and it seems so.

As such, I uploaded my fix onto the totalwar pbm filespace:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix.rar

[Stuperman]

is the save uploaded? and Mr. Hummel loos like a really good general, well except for "actively disloyal" lol.

[GeneralHankerchief]

is the save uploaded? and Mr. Hummel loos like a really good general, well except for "actively disloyal" lol.

The Kaiser approves of that! :laugh4:

If Guida is actually represented in the game by an agent (that is, you can move her around and such) we might want to make better use of her. While some people are waiting for avatars and this is a quick fix, perhaps we should send her to Sicily to solidify our alliance.

-edit- Actually, it's still my decision whether she marries or not. Interesting.

I'm going to think about this for a bit before answering.

[StoneCold]

So, did you guys get a new princess? or just an eligible noble woman to be married off? Shouldn't Hummel become loyal once he marries into the nobility if that is a princess?

[Ituralde]

She is an agent with a Charm rating of 2 and she's currently in Vienna.
I wasn't sure who has the last say on the matter, but presumed it was Henry as her father.
Either way just let me know what to do with good old Ulrich. :beam:

I uploaded the savegame too. kotr1164 (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1164.rar)

[FactionHeir]

From an OOC perspective, I'd say reject Ulrich. He isn't a too useful family member to keep around with almost no traits (proven commander is fine, but it also means he most likely will be stuck at 3rd level as it takes a lot of battles to get to 4th)

Would also be good to kind of train the princess up a bit. Some diplomacy will get her the GoodPrincess line of traits, TolerantWoman and possibility of a few decent ancillaries.
What are her current traits btw?

[econ21]

GH had the final say over who the last Princess married because she was Heinrich's daughter; I don't see that perogative naturally extends to daughters of Henry. Maybe we should institutionalise this: to avoid the game getting bogged down, Chancellors can decide marriage proposals. However, where a Princess is involved (a rather rare event), the Chancellor should consult the relevant father (assuming we can save a game mid-proposal, which apparently we can).

I am inclined to accept the marriage proposal - we do need avatars and I had promised Ignoramus he could roleplay Guda's husband.

[TevashSzat]

So is Ignoramus getting the avatar?

[Stuperman]

Just cause Faction Hier brought it up, I really doubt the pope will accept both ceasefire and re-commnication for a provice. In my testing
you have to offer a ceasfire first for cash or a settlement, then offer recommunication for a tribute, it doesn't matter how much just make sure the pope accepts. Then immeditly cancel<-(SP? it looks wrong) the tribute. I know it's low and underhanded, but that seems to suit the Kaiser :). j/k

[FactionHeir]

And it would hurt out global reputation greatly, you know?


But then the AI seems to ignore whatever level of that you have

[econ21]

So is Ignoramus getting the avatar?

I don't know - he missed the last Diet; I've sent him a PM asking him to post in this thread if he is interested.

With both Ignoramus/Guda and factionheir/Hans, I've agreed to player requests for prospective avatars. I realise this might look like they are queue-jumping over you, Xdeathfire. Maybe I should not have accepted, but I thought it was good for players to identify with a role.

Remember you posted:


I do want an avatar, but I'll stick to House of Swabia instead of switching and just wait for mine.

Conrad Salier is still unclaimed, so if you want to reconsider switching from Swabia to Bavaria, I would be happy to allocate him to you. You can make your decision contingent on Ignoramus's, although I suspect he will still want Guda's husband (as you know, he's invested a lot in the Swabian side of the PBM, which is one reason I agreed to his request for Guda's husband after Sigismund died.)

[GeneralHankerchief]

All I did was look at the Charter.


Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

So far, the wording (love it, btw :laugh4:) only says that I get to decide all princesses that show up as agents. Still unsure, but I'm leaning towards yes since she's too far away from Italy or the west.

[Stuperman]

yeah, and he does become more loyal after the marriage IIRC.

[FactionHeir]

Yes and he also gets the wife lacks charm trait as she only has 2 :p

GH better decide fast (on princess and pope) as he might die any turn now

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, Swabia's going to be threatened anyway, so better to have an extra Swabian. Let's proceed with the wedding.

As for the Pope, he hasn't reconciled us but he hasn't besieged Rome either. That's a plus. Let's keep him, he's going to die very shortly anyway.

[Ignoramus]

I am still in this PBM. And, yes, I would like Ulrich, thank you. I admit that it has been difficult putting the same effort into the PBM when you don't have an avatar, so I now intend to make sure Ulrich plays his role in this PBM.

[FactionHeir]

Good luck as a dreadful disloyal general who only fights for the collective empire due to his marriage or would otherwise create his own little state Ignoramus :D
The complete opposite of Sigismund actually.

[GeneralHankerchief]

A mission to London would certainly be interesting game-wise. Appollonia, anyone?

[Ignoramus]

Well, if they have Billmen and Longbowmen it would be nasty. What the English are doing in Norway is beyond me, but it does give them a nice outpost for attacking Saxony.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Although I would like to be on the defensive for once. I hate offensive engagements. :wall: Pity they only sent one army.

[flyd]

Although I would like to be on the defensive for once. I hate offensive engagements.

Then may I recommend a bit less warmongering on Heinrich's part? :laugh4:

[Stuperman]

with regards to the english force near hamburg and the edict/Charter question, I was thinking of something along the lines of we can attack them in our territiry, but we can only take a settlement is they attack us first? I think that threads the loophole nicely.

[OverKnight]

Ah, I see what you're getting at. We can declare war if they're trespassing, but by doing that do we violate the language of edict E1.7 and forfeit taking an English territory?

Edict E1.7: . . .Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

Well, I guess it comes down to how you define attack. If the English are trespassing with hostile intent, I would consider that an attack. If there is a gray area, it is the Emperor's duty to rule on it. Given Heinrich's bellicose nature. . . Still, given our strategic situation, the importance of taking an English territory is debatable.

[FactionHeir]

Nottingham would make a nice outpost as its likely a fortress or citadel by now and leaves the English with only Caernarvorn as their last castle on the island and Caen in French territory.

It's unlikely they have anything more than normal longbows by now and billmen are bugged so yeah.

[FactionHeir]

Ituralde:

May I suggest that you post more screenshots of the sessions? I kind of hate to go through the saves to figure out everything :)

Like basically post screens of pre battle engagements, important events (metz bribed, assassination, new family members born, diplomacy events), and new characters (didn't see Guda's card).

[Ignoramus]

Nothing personal about Ulrich's outburst, GH, but he is actively disloyal. Besides, I have to avenge myself on your actions in RoC.

[OverKnight]

There's the money we gave France at work. :laugh4: I am intrigued by the arrival of the English. In all the other games I've played, their presence on the Continent isn't quite as pronounced. Not to mention that Portugal is clearly smoking crack. Let's give it up for the AI though, it knows when to pile on.

Well, we wanted a more challenging game, and we got it. :2thumbsup:

Oh, while I'm posting, good work on the Gahzette TC and GH. I had forgotten about Castles, but it was a favorite of mine. I now remember oppressing those unappreciative Welsh and dealing with whiny nobles.

[FactionHeir]

There's the money we gave France at work. :laugh4:


My exact first thought when I read Ituralde's post

[TinCow]

Metz lost, Hamburg about to be lost, Dijon besieged, Vienna besieged, Rome besieged. I think we finally have an interesting PBM.

[FactionHeir]

Metz lost, Hamburg about to be lost, Dijon [almost] besieged, ViennaZagreb besieged, Rome besieged. I think we finally have an interesting PBM.

Corrected :p

And yes its getting more interesting, but if we were to actually use cavalry more actively I think that should be over quickly :)

[Ituralde]

Yeah, it truly has become a Challenge. I'm waiting for the French or even the Milanese to drop a full stack near Rome though to make it complete.

FactionHeir, I'll try to add some screenshots about the events, but in the end all the important information is written down. Seems you have been spoiled by TinCows excellent reports. I'll try to add some more pictures. I just haven't gotten around to uploading them all.

Edit: And I also encounter some problems with imageshack...

[FactionHeir]

Yes, TC spoiled me. Blame him! :)

Oh and if the Milanese dare attack us, then I think its time we took those two islands

[TinCow]

Corrected :p

And yes its getting more interesting, but if we were to actually use cavalry more actively I think that should be over quickly :)

Sorry, but you are wrong. The report specifically says that Dijon is besieged, Vienna is besieged and Rome is besieged and that the Zagreb siege has been lifted.

And it looks like we both missed Venice.

So, in summary:
Metz lost
Hamburg about to be lost
Venice besieged
Vienna besieged
Rome besieged
Dijon besieged

[FactionHeir]

Sorry, but you are wrong. The report specifically says that Dijon is besieged, Vienna is besieged and Rome is besieged and that the Zagreb siege has been lifted.

And it looks like we both missed Venice.

So, in summary:
Metz lost
Hamburg about to be lost
Venice besieged
Vienna besieged
Rome besieged
Dijon besieged

Unfair, Ituralde edited his post after my posts :p

Ituralde: Any chance you posting a screen of Hans so I can prepare my role better?

Also, if Hans is say chivalrous to begin with, I think I should find a way to 'kill off' Elector V Swabia and replace him with Hans :)


[edit]
'wonderful child' hopefully doesn't mean Paranoia, Ignorance, Coward, Disloyal, Ugly, PublicAtheism :D

[TinCow]

Wait... it says Hans is in Ragusa? When did we take Ragusa?

[FactionHeir]

Err he probably means he spawned into Henry's stack.

[edit]
And he probably meant Zagreb, not Ragusa.

[Ituralde]

Sorry about that. Hans spawned in Zagreb.
I currently don't have a screenshot and Hans has a bunch of traits. None too negative, just take a look for yourself. kotr1168-1 (http://ww.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1168-1.rar)

[Jalf]

Man, we've barely even left the Reich, and already you're losing bits of it left and right... :D

Things are certainly getting more interesting. I wonder if we'll be returning from the crusade to a smoking ruin though ;)

[Ituralde]

Ah.. no worries. You loose a town, you take a town. That's how it goes! :juggle2:

The savegame is now with Dutch_guy. While he's at it, take a look at the savegame and let me know if any of you besieged want to sally out. I'm currently not planning on it. Also let me know where you want Hans to go. Hate to get him killed in a glorious defense of Zagreb against a superior Venetian force. :2thumbsup:

[FactionHeir]

Hans has OK stats....just the Effete thing bothers me. Ah well....

I just looked at your updated report and the heretic card and figured that CA forgot to add a trigger to remove NaturalPriestSkill when priests become heretic. I fixed most of those triggers myself already for other priest traits but must have overlooked that one too.
I'll upload a 1.01 version of the fix to the totalwar.org site in a bit that takes care of that problem.

[edit]
New fix: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix101.rar
Ituralde, you only need the character_trait file itself really. the rest is exactly the same

Everyone else: If you are even only/merely fighting a battle in KOTR, you must have the fix installed or certain traits won't trigger.

[FactionHeir]

I'm still open to suggestions how I should approach the whole Elector V Swabie and Hans business btw.
I'm torn between just jumping in as Hans vs putting an end to Elector V Swabia and then taking over as Hans.

[OverKnight]

Well since the plan was that you were going to be Hans all along, I just assumed we had a precocious toddler as an Elector. This caused me some amusement as I was imagining a twelve year old questioning Otto's motives when he didn't execute Milanese prisoners.

When I got Otto, I had Gunther go back to Innsbruck to serve as a bureaucrat there. Ituralde had Conrad die of consumption. How invested are you in the current character? Does he deserve a send-off? Or should he quietly return to the back benches?

[TinCow]

There's no reason why Hans can't be the Fifth Elector of Swabia. The ages of the characters in the game shouldn't really factor into the discussions due to game mechanics... except when avatars about to kick it, like Heinrich.

[Stuperman]

Hey faction Hier, Hans looks better than Gerhard. Gerhard is all loyalty and Chivalery(sp), a yes man. Which sucks, cause I really want to rip into the Kaiser (no offence GH), but that would be totally out of character for him.

A couple questions, first, that Hungarian full stack near Venice is mostly Crusader sergents and Knights, does the fact that was are catholic affect them when we are excommunicated?

and

can we please do something about the unit of peasent crossbowmen with 2 men in it in the bavarian Household army, they are utterly useless and taking up a space.

[Dutch_guy]

The savegame is now with Dutch_guy. While he's at it, take a look at the savegame and let me know if any of you besieged want to sally out. I'm currently not planning on it. Also let me know where you want Hans to go. Hate to get him killed in a glorious defense of Zagreb against a superior Venetian force. :2thumbsup:

Just a quick confirmation that I indeed have the save, will be playing the battle some time this evening.

:balloon2:

[econ21]

I'm still open to suggestions how I should approach the whole Elector V Swabie and Hans business btw.
I'm torn between just jumping in as Hans vs putting an end to Elector V Swabia and then taking over as Hans.

My two cents would be to start afresh, working from Hans's traits, but it is your call as you are the one who has invested in Elector V. Just let us know which way you go.

Whether Hans goes on crusade is also up to you - for what it is worth, I/Henry would very much like you to join the crusade (it would be good to have a young Swabian in the Holy Land, eventually spawning avatars) but its up to you/Hans.

[FactionHeir]

Hmmm since the elector is stationed in Rome currently with the Diet, I suppose I shall wait for Heinrich to attack the pope and somehow add it into the story.

As for fix1.01, I uplaoded it first thinking that the extra line of code would fix it but I tested it earlier extensively in my own campaign and found that something quirky is going on with AgentTypes. Looks like heretics are considered priests too in the game even though they are two different AgentTypes. I'll investigate on that further though before making 1.01a (which would simply be adding a check that a priest is not a heretic when giving out priest skills)
This won't influence the current state of game so it can carry on for the time being.

[edit]
After hours of testing, find 1.01a here:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix101a.rar
(files changed this time are the vnv string bin file and the character trait file)

It really is tough to get the game to turn a priest into a heretic. Hours of failed denouncing didn't do it for some reason nor did tinkering with the campaign_db to increase the chance. So had to just keep ending turns. Checked 3 priets who turned heretic with spies and they all lost the NaturalPriestSkill trait. Hopefully that wasn't just an exception :p
Wanted to make sure that its really *really* fixed :)

[Warluster]

Is Dijon besieged?

[TinCow]

Is Dijon besieged?

Yep. I believe Ituralde asked all besieged generals to decide for themselves whether to sally. If not, he will not be doing so.

[Warluster]

Okay, I better decide what to do!

Ituralde, did you receive my PM?

[Ignoramus]

I must say, I feel slightly disappointed that we had to cheat to get the game to be challenging. However, it is not going to be easy to push the French back. You'll have a vital battle, Warluster.

[OverKnight]

I guess cheating to makes things more challenging is better than cheating to makes things easier.

BTW, does Dutch_guy still have the save? It looks like we'll have a few titanic battles in the near future, like with that huge Hungarian army in Italy.

[Ituralde]

Dutch_guy had problems uploading the game, but will do so today and pass it on to GH so that he can make his sally. Once the game comes back to me I'll probably press the End Turn button and wait for all hell to break loose.
Hamburg will probably fall, The Hungarians should attack the Bavarians. Mabye Venice will fall, Magdeburg will be besieged and hopefully Dijon will be attacked. Maybe the Poles even decide to go for Frankfurt or Nuremburg for a change.
That will be an interesting turn. :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

Aren't you glad you won the election? :laugh4:

[FactionHeir]

It would actually be good to have 2-3 archer/xbow units in all our border towns.
I noticed those are great for sallying each turn, killing the main bulk of the enemy army and then forcing a draw.

In my current SP French campaign, instead of giving the AI money, I changed the AI behavior in the files so they become active at turn 1 instead of 10 and then 30. Also changed the King's purse to 5000 for all AI, so they get roughly 2500 per turn more than I do. I'm ranked last on the financial rating on the end turn report :)
Kind of makes it more fun

[FactionHeir]

TC: I'm Elector V Swabia not Bavaria, even if you may wish it so ;)

[Ignoramus]

Isn't it ironic that we were worried that the game was going to be a walkover? So we send off 6 of our best generals off on Crusade, and leave the rest at home to defend the Empire. Methinks I'll get some good battles.

[StoneCold]

FH, shouldn't you be Hans by now? :P I think Econ was asking if u are going to join the crusade IC.

[FactionHeir]

Yes, but I am still elector at the same time (for example Henry is elector I)
And econ asking in the crusader council doesn't mean Hans who is not part of it gets to hear it

[OverKnight]

FH: A good thought on archers, but unless there's an avatar commanding, all battles are auto-resolved.

Ignoramus: We took steps to compensate, we were about to start rolling over Europe, I just hope we haven't over compensated. It'll take a few more turns to tell though. Still, I have no idea if the Crusade will be successful, or if we can hold off all of Europe from jumping on us. Which makes things more dramatic. Particularly with this line of obstinate Popes. . .

[Ignoramus]

I don't like Ulrich's avatar much, but I'll live. What's harder is roleplaying an actively disloyal general. :help:

[FactionHeir]

I told you to wait for another :p

I think you got 3 main options as H&#252;mmel:
Dread - Warmongering, Fear-instilling, Harsh justice, Iron-fisted
Disloyal - Disobeying orders, doing your own things, secretly working against common policy. Limited by Royal ties however as you have a claim (however distant) to the throne now.
Religious - Pious, supports christianity (not necessarily papacy though, could even be disloyal to them), wants to spread faith.

Pick a few and mix-match :)

[Ignoramus]

I don't want to be too disloyal though; disloyalty doesn't give you influence or promotion.

I think I'll make Ulrich conform as he gets olders, or something like that.

[econ21]

Ulrich's overall loyalty stat is ok now - it's just the disloyal trait that raises eyebrows. You could play him as an independent "rebel" type, who will have his own ideas and argue the toss but ultimately is part of the team (chaotic good in DnD terms). Or you could play him as a schemer - who is loyal only because he wants "influence or promotion". But given his overall loyalty stat, I would not see him as being actively disloyal - FLYdude's character had that dubious honour last time I looked.

[TinCow]

I must say, I feel slightly disappointed that we had to cheat to get the game to be challenging.

That's only because you're aware of the cheating. I 'cheated' to create the Appolonia crisis in WOTS, but since no one but econ21 knew, it was all fun. As long as we have fun, I don't think the methods we use really matter, and I think this is definitely more fun than steamroller European expansion.

The 100,000 florins seems to have been so effective that I'm thinking of using it at the very first turn of a new SP campaign. Not much different than playing on VH in RTW.

[econ21]

I'm going to be away from an M2TW capable computer from 9th April to 14th. During that period, Overknight can fight any battles our crusade stacks stumbles into. I may have access to the internet via dial-up, but otherwise [b]GH will have to do the honours in terms of overseeing the Diet.

BTW, the patch is out this Thursday - let's pray it is savegame compatible. Otherwise, we may have to install a second copy of M2TW each if we want patched SP games (which I know I do).

EDIT: It is probably wise to delay engaging that scary cavalry heavy French army besieging Dijon until the patch is out. Our massed Swabian spearmen will have an easier time if the shield bug is fixed. If the patch is not savegame compatible, I think we should make some fixes of our own - to deal with the shield and 2Her bugs in particular.

[FactionHeir]

I disagree econ that H&#252;mmel would be CG as he does have dreadpoints and not chiv points. I would argue the case for LE or LN whereby he is furthering his own goals by his own interpretation of rules but ultimately keeping to the overall aims of the empire.

I think maybe we hould have given the AI 50k and not 100k btw lol. Oh well, the 100k should last it for longer than a chancellor's period possibly.

Patches by CA usually are savegame compatible to a certain extent. Basically if it changes any files that are normally found in the plain data folder and data/text folder, its backwards compatible but the other stuff would only be seen on starting a fresh campaign. Thats what I learned from my own testings anyway. Once its out, I'll have a look at their traits and ancillary files mainly to find if they added any new traits/ancillaries and changes to their triggers and what is still lacking/incorrect to fix those.

We should engage a cav heavy AI army with spears and cav ourselves and possibly with a few merc xbows (depending on whether the AI has ranged units or not)
If they charge their cav, we counter charge our cav and move in the spears to then massacare their cav (cav vs cav charges do almost no damage btw).

If they have loads of infantry, I would suggest a general charge by our cav to instantly kill 60-80% of their infantry, retreat the cav backwards carefully and then go as above. If they have ranged, they usually move those forward at an entire army disance which makes them vulnerable to our cav.

Thats of course based on the AI actually moving towards us when they are defenders. If they are not (i.e. they feel outnumbered) they will be passive which means our own cav vs infantry charges will be much more effective as they won't counter with cav.

[econ21]

I disagree econ that H&#252;mmel would be CG as he does have dreadpoints and not chiv points.

Good point - I was forgetting that.

PS: Updated link to your fixes as requested. :bow:

[Ignoramus]

Are we using another patch or something?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm going to be away from an M2TW capable computer from 9th April to 14th. During that period, Overknight can fight any battles our crusade stacks stumbles into. I may have access to the internet via dial-up, but otherwise GH will have to do the honours in terms of overseeing the Diet.

Well, Heinrich will probably keel over before that time, but I'll see what I can do.

[econ21]

Well, Heinrich will probably keel over before that time,

I had not thought of that. I think the game may slow down a little now - it sounds like the next turn is going to be a humdinger, with quite a few battles.


... but I'll see what I can do.

Thanks, I should be able to keep in touch - but if the worst comes to the worst, you could always role-play the Imperial administration (sort of like the way the Soviet Union kept functioning in the early 1980s despite virtually deceased Presidents).

Warluster: von Salza is next in-line after Henry. Are you happy to chair the Diet if required (and when Henry dies)?

[Ituralde]

The battle report on the Fall of Venice is up.
In case anyone's interested. :beam:

[Ituralde]

Speaking of battles. I just received the savegame from Dutch_guy and send it on to GH. He gets his fight against the Pope.

[Northnovas]

The battle report on the Fall of Venice is up.
In case anyone's interested. :beam:
Yes, I was waiting to read some good news.:2thumbsup:

[Warluster]

Chair the diet, yeah sure, sounds very intresting. Hope I don't get beate,bashed,punched,murdered etc,etc by angry electors!

[Northnovas]

Nice battle report and storyline to GH I guess that solves FH predicament on character development Elector vs. Hans. If only I could have the same dilemma. In time, in time......

[GeneralHankerchief]

guess that solves FH predicament on character development Elector vs. Hans.

That was FactionHeir's idea. Luckily it just so happens that I got a killer screenshot that worked nicely with the storyline (btw, the Kaiser *did* fight all those people).


If only I could have the same dilemma. In time, in time......

:laugh4: I have a feeling that Austria will get some more avatars soon.

[econ21]

Chair the diet, yeah sure, sounds very intresting.

Cool. :bow: If Heinrich dies and I'm incommunicado, the new Prince - who should be von Salva - can take charge of the Diet.

[Northnovas]

Luckily it just so happens that I got a killer screenshot that worked nicely with the storyline (btw, the Kaiser *did* fight all those people).

They were killer I really liked the church scene that was a nice touch. If there was an award for screen shots that would be my nomination. The battle scenes were also good to the story but church shot, that added to the story.

[FactionHeir]

Well written as always GH :)
Nice and fitting ending for an ally of the aged emperor, who should see a few extra years and the ensuing victory of the empire over the papacy.

[OverKnight]

GH: Good story as usual, you weren't trying to have the Kaiser go out in a blaze of glory were you? Forget Forlorn Hope, if you want quick promotion join the Kaiser's bodyguard, new positions are opening daily. :laugh4:

Edit: Ituralde: A gripping battle report as well, worth the wait.

I was thinking of doing a year by year chronological history of the PBM. This would integrate the Diet, Chancellor's Report, Battle Report and Stories threads using links and summaries. All the threads are great, but there is nothing linking them together. In order to catch up on the game, a newbie would have some difficulty hopping between the threads to keep them in order. Most likely, as I did when I caught up on WotS, each thread would be read as a whole and not chronologically with the others.

Has this been tried before? Or is history produced so quickly it is impossible to keep up with it?

Thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Ignoramus]

I think it would be an excellent idea, OverKnight. It's adds to the feeling that we're creating history.

[flyd]

I tried at one point, not too long ago, to compile a concise history of the WOTS' Republic, focusing only on military history. I only got through the start of the first Gallic war before the high time consumption of the effort caught up with me. Still, I don't really have time to get into lengthy diatribes in the Diet either, so I think it would be doable. It would be a bit easier, since all the events are still fresh. The start of the WOTS was now nearly a year ago, and I did have to read through all the early material, though I can't complain, as it was very interesting. Why do you suppose I was so familiar with the origin of Section 3.3 (Motion 13, Senate session of 275 BC, proposed by Quintus, seconded anonymously, passed unanimously, first used by Consul Lucius Aemilius to declare war upon the Gauls), and why Heinrich did so terribly violate its intent?

[Stuperman]

my folowing of the stories thread has been spuratic at best, but that was a really good story GH. what's the current status of the game?

[Ituralde]

I'm sorry to have to bring this to you, but something has come up and I will be gone to a funeral until Friday evening. I won't have internet access for the whole time.
I hope the recent report has given you enough fuel to last until Friday evening. I will then happily resume playing. If you don't want the delay, I uploaded the current savegame. kotr1170 (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1170.rar).
See you all on Friday and enjoy the game!

[Warluster]

See ya!

Wow, the Kaisers dead, this is the next stage of the game I say.

[FactionHeir]

See you then Ituralde. Sad thing about Heinrich but that must be due to Otterbach not winning...just too much for the old emperor to bear.

TC: Please do make sure you got the newest fix version when you add Heinrich to the Mausoleum using the last 1168 save. Otherwise some traits ay not appear correctly (due to thresholds) :)

I would comment on Heinrich's passing in the diet, but my avatar just happens to be in Zagreb ...

[OverKnight]

Family comes first of course, though it's quite the cliffhanger you're leaving us with.

On a rather Machiavellian note, it's a shame we didn't get peace before the Kaiser kicked it, we would have been reconciled. Perhaps we should keep killing Popes untill only HRE cardinals are left. A bit extreme, but nothing else is working. Geez, you think they would be more understanding, we just took their only city and killed three of their leaders.

[Warluster]

lol,
Since econ is going away that mean sI am head of the Imperial DIet right now? Okay,

But I am going camping Friday, Saturday and maybe Sunday, but I will be porbably be back SUndaish/Mondayish.

[FactionHeir]

Well if both econ and you are gone, have GH resume the diet duty, as say a substitute.

[Ignoramus]

What do you think of Ulrich's first story? I hope I haven't used to much German.

[FactionHeir]

My personal opinion is to either have it all German or all English. A mix might work for non native German speakers for immersion, but for a native German speaker it sounds very awkward. One of the reasons I have always written empire and emperor in the PBM.

Your story was interesting though, limited only by the above. I assume you got a the veteran warrior ancillary?

[Ignoramus]

I have removed most of the German except for "mein", "Ritter", "danke", and "freund".

I have saved the original, though.

[FactionHeir]

I like the new version better. The only thing you could still improve would be to replace both lord and guest with "Herr" (which is close to "Lord" but more commonly used in German medieval settings)

:)

[econ21]

Since econ is going away that mean sI am head of the Imperial DIet right now? Okay,

But I am going camping Friday, Saturday and maybe Sunday, but I will be porbably be back SUndaish/Mondayish.

I'm still here - I may be out of touch starting Monday for six days, so when you get back you may be in charge. It probably only matters if Ituralde finishes his reign in that period (as then you'd have to open a Diet session), but that seems unlikely.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Aw, crap.

Ah well, it was a good run. I guess I have one last story in me.

[TinCow]

So what's going on with Conrad Salier? I would like to incorporate him into a story, since Max adopted him and he's religious, but I can't do that without talking to whoever claims him first.

[econ21]

So what's going on with Conrad Salier? I would like to incorporate him into a story, since Max adopted him and he's religious, but I can't do that without talking to whoever claims him first.

He's still up for grabs. If not one adopts him, I guess he could be a blank canvas for your story.

EDIT: Maybe GH wants him, now that Heinrich is no longer?

[Stuperman]

What do you think of Ulrich's first story? I hope I haven't used to much German.
I thought is was a really noce touch, a little diffacult to read at times, but very good overall.

I thought Conradsailer was factionheir's? but I haven't been paying too close attention to him.

[StoneCold]

FH is a swabian and he specifically wanted Hans as an avatar very early on, before Hans was even of age.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'll only take Conrad if nobody else wants him.

[FactionHeir]

Besides you, only nazgul3 and Illirishman1986 have a claim on Conrad.
However, both have been relatively inactive recently, so you probably could have him. (Have econ21 confirm though)

[econ21]

I'll only take Conrad if nobody else wants him.

OK, I'll pencil you in for Conrad. :bow: If someone else claims him in the next 24 hours, they can have him.

[GeneralHankerchief]

btw, you might want to update your user title a bit... *cough* Kaiser Henry.

Heinrich would never forgive me.

[FactionHeir]

Its funny though because Heinrich is German for Henry :p
Basically the two avatars have the same name but in different languages.

Actually wonder why Heinrich's son was named Henry by CA.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, the real life version of Heinrich was Emperor Henry IV, who did have the real-life conflicts with Pope Gregory that spurred Heinrich's hatred for all things Papal. His son was Emperor Henry V, AKA this game's Prinz/Kaiser Henry.

I think that the game mechanics wouldn't support two family members with the same name (not to mention the fact that it would confuse players unfamiliar with the history), so CA simply Germanized Heinrich's name.

[FactionHeir]

I wonder how they handled it with the German localized version of M2TW...
me thinks CA should have merged the various localized versions (i.e. English, French, German, Spanish) and used each version's speech, names and text for that faction. That way there would no longer be hybrid names (von Saxony, of Rheims) plus you'd have perfect accents inbuilt :D
I guess the problem would be that some people wouldn't understand a word for certain factions haha.
Btw, I bet you in the German version they left English names the way they were instead of Germanizing them, so you'd have perfect English and German factions.
Sorry for the random rant.

[Stuperman]

meh, random rants are ok, I find it wierd that now that I have an avaitarm I have less to say and do. well, I should blame it more on the status of the game than anything.

[AussieGiant]

Hi GH,

I just like to say, well done on being a "larger than life" Emperor.

I certainly had no idea what the hell you were doing at times, but it has all worked out as a great story at the end.

[FactionHeir]

Good story econ.
Now I wonder whether this Dusan person was an enemy spy or a heretic.

[StoneCold]

or did the prince gain an ancillary? a seer?

[FactionHeir]

If ancillary, only astrologer or brilliant fool would fit.
For the former he would need to end in a settlement with no religious buildings and for the latter he needs to be in at least a castle and have 4 command stars (which he has now that he turned emperor [he had 3 before])

[Stuperman]

With the empoer dead I can reveal my master plan, IF rome was besieged by a papal army that the Kaiser couldn't sally against, I was contemplating not sending the Bavarian Household Army, unless he met a few demands regarding his attitude towrds the pope, and how often he should be replaced ;-p


Alas it never came to bear, and would have been utterly-totally-amazingly out of character for the 8-ring loyatly Gerhard.

That story really is a head scratcher.

[FactionHeir]

This also means that we should send at least 1 army commander down to rome to defend against papal sieges of rome. Otherwise autoresolve will result in us losing rome.

and so Whack-A-Pope continues into its 5th season

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ooh ooh, I volunteer Conrad! :tongue:

Oh wait, he's Mandorf's adopted son. Curses.

[Stuperman]

yeah, and a 0 piety guy like Gerhard Stephen might do?

sry for the blantent self promotion.

edit: now that I think about it , I'd prolly have to give up the BHA, which isn't something I want to do really...

[FactionHeir]

I would think Steffen would be perfect for the job :p
You probably want Otto's go-ahead though or at least Leopold's

[edit]
Conrad could do it with only 4 piety and no specific traits that go against it, but its really a matter between those avatars staying back in the empire

[GeneralHankerchief]

The Heinrich's death story is up.

[TinCow]

I agree that Gerhard Steffen should probably be the one sent againt the Popes. We've got to fight them whether we like it or not and he's the only one of the three who took down Gregory who's still in the Reich.

[StoneCold]

Econ, regarding the role of the Prince and Duke. If there is a conflict between holding the two positions, shouldn't the prince be allocated an imperial territory instead of remaining in the house as he is not a count of the house so the Duke of the house will have no hold over him?

[TinCow]

Being Prince has no conflict at all with being a Duke or a Count. I see no reason why the Prince would have to be the Duke of his house either.

[StoneCold]

in terms of IC, I would think no Crown Prince would be under a Duke in power or influence, right? How would the Duke be able to control the Crown Prince as a Count of his? In game mechanics I agree that there is no conflict.

[Stuperman]

econ was both a duke and heir wasn't he?

[TinCow]

in terms of IC, I would think no Crown Prince would be under a Duke in power or influence, right? How would the Duke be able to control the Crown Prince as a Count of his?

How can Prince Harry be given orders by his commanding officer? How was Charles given orders while he was in the military? There are plenty of situations in history in which royal family members are subject to the powers of others. Kings of small nations were often far less powerful than less nobles of great empires. Rank only has value when others acknowledge it.

On another issue, the biography battle statistics are getting out of hand. I don't have the time to update them and the longer I wait, the bigger the job gets. If someone would like to help out and figure out what the current stats should be, I would be grateful. If not, I'll probably just remove them from the Bios.

[TevashSzat]

Hey people, i haven't been on that recently due to some computer issues and this is the first time that I have been able to access a computer with internet access. I will probably not be very active for the next five days or so depending on how fast I can get my comp to work and get back on the internet

[flyd]

It is unfortunate that we, for some reason, dropped the practice of keeping battle results in a table. It only took a bit of effort for the reigning player, and allowed all sorts of interesting statistics to be compiled.

[Stuperman]

Hey, TC I'd gladly help, just lemme know what I can do.

[AussieGiant]

It certainly seems as if House Swabia is on the rise.

I wonder if it will all go to a few peoples heads in that house :)

Hey TC,

Would it not be better to just use a win-loss column rather than actual casualties percentages? It`s just a thought to reduce the large amount of time you need to do that.

[Ignoramus]

That's a good idea AussieGiant. Although the casulties list is nice, I don't think much is lost if it goes and it saves a lot of work.

Concerning Swabia - Swabia was always going to be the best Duchy. The Imperial line runs through her noble House, and hopefully Jobst will have a son come of age before he dies.

[Ignoramus]

Econ, isn't Staufen Swabia's capital? I thought the capital stayed with the Duke/Steward? If I'm wrong, could someone please correct me?

[Stuperman]

good point, a win loss column and maybe a screen shot of the 'butcher's bill' for heroic victories? actual kills/losses would be nice, but I think the work needed wouldn't be worth the value to the PBM

[Warluster]

Well Jobst has some 30 yeras left in him, I am sure a son will come soon!

[econ21]

Econ, isn't Staufen Swabia's capital? I thought the capital stayed with the Duke/Steward? If I'm wrong, could someone please correct me?

Good point - I forgot about that. I'll have to change Hans's title in the Duchy of Swabia thread.

[FactionHeir]

Now I got the backwater town of Bern, listed as the lowest priority in the build topic ...how my father appreciates me :p

[StoneCold]

That's why Hans has to go on the Crusade to get a better town... :P

[FactionHeir]

Well, the problem would then be as a count he cannot have more than 1 town according to the rules :p maybe Henry wants the holy towns all for himself!!!

Anyway, I was thinking along the lines of "I wait 30 turns to come of age as the emperor's son and all I got was this lousy backwater town" :D [you know, those t-shirts you get in london as a tourist]

[TinCow]

Well, you're the Count of Bern now. You get to pick the build queue, so make it the most glorious city the world has ever seen!

[FactionHeir]

Actually the current build queue for Bern is the one I suggested back when econ first posted it :)

[Ignoramus]

Well, you needn't worry about Bern being a poor city. Chances are you'll be give a much better city in the Holy Land.

[FactionHeir]

Just for the record, I'm not upset at all OOC, I just found it funny as in the quote explanation above.

And again, you can only be count of one settlement ;)

[econ21]

I don't understand why M2TW does not follow primo genitur fully so that Hans would be the Prince. I tried to give Hans Staufen as a consolation, but as Ignoramus pointed out that was against our character. Still, he is a Count at 16, which is something. Generally, I think titles - and settlements - should be earned to make them more interesting for role-playing reasons. But the Emperor's oldest son does deserve something as of right.

[OverKnight]

Has a decision been reached about the assignment of Conrad? I want to get him into a battle so we can get him knighted. I may be an absentee landlord, but I still care. :beam:

[FactionHeir]

According to a post I read the other day you can force who becomes leader if you use the give/remove_trait commands for exheir and factionheir and then kill the present leader. I haven't actually tried to verify that. Oh well, maybe with 1.2 out some day there'll be a modding opprtunity.

[FactionHeir]

Has a decision been reached about the assignment of Conrad? I want to get him into a battle so we can get him knighted. I may be an absentee landlord, but I still care. :beam:

GH is Conrad. At least unless someone else in Bavaria claims him in the next 9 hours.

[StoneCold]

BTW, with the death of Kaiser Henrich, are you guys still excommunicated?

[FactionHeir]

Yup as we are at war with the papal states.

[OverKnight]

Because we were at war with the Papal States when Heinrich died, no reconciliation took place when the Faction Leader passed on.

Excommunication drags on, despite our pre-war intelligence. So much for the Reich being greeted as liberators. . .:laugh4:

[FactionHeir]

Three things


The ancillary Henry got was a pagan magician. Let's hope he doesn't meet an inquisitor again or it will get hot



Otto is still in charge of the crusading army. Possibly due to a bug as Henry had less command when he joined Otto. Rejoining Henry to the stack leads to Henry taking over btw.



Jobst should not wait for Ulrich. Sally forth. I just did it as a test and beat back the French. The way to do it is to put all your missiles on the wall. (except for 2 PAs)
T PA PXB T T CB CB T CB
where T are towers.
Everyone else stays on the bottom inside.
Once battle starts, move your 2 unupgraded PAs out the gate so they stand just in front of it in a thin line, tight formation.
Have them on fire at will and not on skirmish.
What you will notice is the AI sends all its ranged units forward to shoot them. They will be picked off by your towers and your missiles on the towers as well as the two units on the ground. You will lose both units on the ground eventually (actually you'll have 8 men left in each) but it will lead to the AI losing ALL of its missile units (well again, 2-9 men per unit left)
During that procedure, the AI won't utilize its ballista btw.
You can then choose to charge in and drive them from Dijon with mediocre casualties or you can wait a turn, take a few starvation casualties and then at the next sally move all missile units out the gate in a thin line and shoot his cav (he doesn't have missiles to counter you and will be passive) His ballista will likely retaliate then but since your units are in thin lines (max 3 deep), it will not do much damage.
Once his knights are gone, shoot the spears. Then use cav to line up outside and charge him.
Chances are though that the French will withdraw after your first sally when you take out all his missile.
Gotta love passive (or non passive but stupid) sally AI

[AussieGiant]

That's a real pisser about not being reconciled after GH's death.

I was really hoping to get that mechanism back in place to prevent our unmitigated expansion. I'm just worried that we are doing quite well being excommunicated AND giving the AI heaps of cash with no real consequence.

Ah well. I'm sure the crusade is going to be a blaze of glory.

[ArchdukeEvan]

it should be easyier now... lol... well now that the anit-pope is gone... to get reconsiled

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, our Pope-O-Meter is now back to zero, so it's not like a walk in the park back to reconciliation.

I should have told Ituralde to send me against any Pope if it wasn't Otterbach. Ah, well...

[FactionHeir]

You know, there is actually a way to go through all popes in 1 turn.
The way to do it is to whack one.
Then save.
Then load.
This will trigger papal election to occur immediately on loading instead of next turn.
Whack the pope.
Rinse and repeat.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Nice work on the summary thread, OverKnight.

I can't wait to see the product after all of the threads are browsed.

[OverKnight]

Thanks GH, I just finished reviewing the battle report thread. :2thumbsup:

If I could ask everyone a favor? In the future, please put the in game year on your reports. I'm as guilty of not doing this as anyone else. I don't mind digging through the saves, but if we consistently date battles, stories and chancellor reports, it will make my, admittedly self imposed, job easier.

Thanks.

Oh, it looks like we've still got a few placeholders in the battle reports thread. I'm probably not going to link to those until they're done.

Again if you want something mentioned in the history, post there or let me know. I'm sure I've missed a few dramatic screaming matches in the Diet that you all remember. :beam:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hmm, in 1118 you could put the Kaiser's announcement that we are at war with Milan and the conversation that followed.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1422643#post1422643

[Ignoramus]

You shouldn't test battles, Factionheir. If you're going to, keep the results and tactics to yourself. Otherwise it spoils the PBM.

[FactionHeir]

Exactly the reason why I put them in spoiler tags no?
Besides, the tacts for a sally against the dumb AI is the same each time anyway. Regardless of the situation.

[Jalf]

You know, there is actually a way to go through all popes in 1 turn.
The way to do it is to whack one.
Then save.
Then load.
This will trigger papal election to occur immediately on loading instead of next turn.
Whack the pope.
Rinse and repeat.
Am I the only one who feels that cheating (and yes, playing ahead to test battles) kinda detracts from the game?

[econ21]

Am I the only one who feels that cheating (and yes, playing ahead to test battles) kinda detracts from the game?

No, you are not the only one. People are welcome to use the savegames to play ahead for their own entertainment, but it's been agreed they should keep any information they uncover to themselves.

The forthcoming battle with the French outside Dijon should be the most epic we've had so far - I hope we can fight it without relying on the AI passive behaviour against sallies. Perhaps the battle should be initiated by Ulrich attacking to relieve Djion so it is not a sally? Warluster should still command, of course.

The situation with the Pope is perplexing, but then again a quick reconciliation would be rather implausible given what Heinrich did.

[OverKnight]

The History is complete for now. The only threads I didn't review for it were the House threads and this one. Take a look, I would appreciate any insights or additions you all might have.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=82780

[Kagemusha]

I kind of wonder how should i address this whole issue as Dietrich, Heinrich dying and Henry as new Kaiser.My character has withdrawn from matters of state, so i guess maybe he will just sit in the crusading camp and maybe only adresses issues in letters to his wife,in the stories thread.:dizzy2:

[GeneralHankerchief]

The History is complete for now. The only threads I didn't review for it were the House threads and this one. Take a look, I would appreciate any insights or additions you all might have.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=82780

Very nice. :yes: I think you caught all of Heinrich's altercations. :laugh4:

This should probably be stickied to prevent it from falling into the abyss.

[econ21]

I agree with GH: very nice work, Overknight. :bow:

[OverKnight]

Thanks, I was just organizing the good writing of others.

One thing I couldn't pin down is when Poland betrayed their alliance and attacked us. I'm looking for year, location and details. If anyone involved knows, please pass it on. The war against the Poles has been an epic see-saw affair and I want to do it justice.

In general, much of the chronology is guess work and I would welcome corrections. Also if people want their favorite events fleshed out feel free to send me dates, details and any appropriate links and I'll put them in the mix. I want to make the chronology a team effort, it'll be better because of it.

[Ituralde]

I just want to thank for your patience, and say that I'm back!
Sorry once again for the delay. I'll catch up on the reading and have already tinkered with the current save. Expect some battles to go around by tomorrow morning.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[TinCow]

Just a note: Initial indications from the unofficial/leaked patch 1.2 are that it is save game compatible.

[Northnovas]

Thanks, I was just organizing the good writing of others.
One thing I couldn't pin down is when Poland betrayed their alliance and attacked us. I'm looking for year, location and details. If anyone involved knows, please pass it on. The war against the Poles has been an epic see-saw affair and I want to do it justice.

If no one can recall have the Chancellor make a diplomatic contact and it will let us know how many turns we have been at war.


Just a note: Initial indications from the unofficial/leaked patch 1.2 are that it is save game compatible.

If it is, will we keep the current mod or use 1.2 alone if it fixes the ancillary issue and other bugs?

[FactionHeir]

I'd say wait until the actual final 1.2 is out officially before deciding on anything as we don't want to run into something unexpected where a leaked 1.2 won't be compatible with the final 1.2 for some reason or another.

[Ituralde]

Battle Awaits!

Dear Gerhard Steffen,

As requested your army has been reinforced by Conrad Salier with parts of the Milanese garrison. Your army is encamped on a hill northwest of the Hungarian foe. Although their main body is parted from Prince Jakab he might arrive on the batlefield eventually.
Good luck, the fate of Northern Italy depends on the outcome of this battle.

Chancellor Leopold

kotr1170-1 (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1170-1.rar)

OOC:
I would have usually sent a PM with these informations to Stuperman. However with Conrad Salier joining the army he is now commanding it from a gameplay point of view. However Steffen is commander of the BHA and Conrad Salier is not even a knight. So my guess would be to let Stuperman play it even if he would be controlling GH's avatar and pretend it was Gerhard Steffen. That would make him pay even more attention to the other bodyguard too. :beam:

[OverKnight]

They're both in the same army?

Is it too late to have Conrad's army be separate but reinforce Gerhard's at the start of the battle? That way whoever commands the army that initiates the attack has overall command. The reason I ask is, the avatar that commands and wins is likely to get some nice "bumps" from the victory. I would prefer that Stuperman's avatar, since he'll be fighting the battle, gets the rewards.

Edit: Sorry for being nit-picky but I've got to look out for my minions. :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Yeah they're both in the same army. Stuperman wanted to attack from the Northwest so it was quite convenient to have Conrad Salier join him since he was coming from that direction anyways. I didn't watch out for it and only realized that Salier was now in charge once I attacked the Hungarian stack.
I realize your concern but would say that Steffen will get to fight battles in the future.

Edit: Either way, if Stuperman manages to separate the two armies again and still attack with Conrad's reinforcements this turn, he can do that.

[OverKnight]

OK, it's up to Stuperman then. :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

Upon a more in depth review of the Diet threads I have been able to pinpoint starting years and events for the Polish and Hungarian wars for the History. I've also added some links to Diet discussions concerning Pope Gregory, the Investiture Crisis, various Diet sniping (:hmg:) and the origins and execution of the Household Armies concept. I have also added a second post that will detail the events of the reign of Kaiser Henry.

I will be reviewing the Council of Crusaders thread to integrate it into the chronology if needed.

Again, suggestions and additions are welcome, post here or PM me.

[TinCow]

Very nice work OverKnight.

[OverKnight]

Thanks TC, coming from the Librarian that's high praise. :2thumbsup:

All this work reviewing the threads has put into my mind my next project:

The KotR drinking game! :medievalcheers:

Take a sip every time a bloodied messenger bursts into the Diet.

Take a drink every time an Elector threatens to kill the Kaiser or proposes an Edict to marry a princess to her brother.

Finish your drink every time a Pope dies.

[AussieGiant]

Thanks TC, coming from the Librarian that's high praise. :2thumbsup:

All this work reviewing the threads has put into my mind my next project:

The KotR drinking game! :medievalcheers:

Take a sip every time a bloodied messenger bursts into the Diet.

Take a drink every time an Elector threatens to kill the Kaiser or proposes an Edict to marry a princess to her brother.

Finish your drink every time a Pope dies.

LMAO @ OK.

I'd be unconscious after about 15 minutes of reading!!

I really hope 1.2 is save compatible...I really really do :)

And OK, your skills are impressive Master Kenobi. How do you get the time to do all this?

[OverKnight]

Quite simple my young Padawan,

I have a boring third shift job with internet access and a lax IT department.


That reminds me, I'm visting my parents for Easter. I'll be away from home, but still have an internet connection Sunday and Monday EDT. Since I'm in the trailing army of the Crusade, I doubt anything interesting will come my way during that time.

[Stuperman]

For the glory of the Riech, TO BATTLE!

OOC:that's disapointing that Gerhard won't get and of the command benefits for this battle though :-(

[FactionHeir]

Just a status update:
I'm currently looking through the 1.2 (preliminary anyway) character trait and ancillary files and checking for differences etc and fixing what's not fixed or now needs fixing. That way we'll have a ready to-go fix when 1.2 is officially released.

[Stuperman]

latest save is here (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1170-2.rar)

It was a good battle, I am a bit dissapointed that gerhard wasn't in command, I practiced the battle with the previous save, because it was my first M2TW batte on VH ever and Gerhard Always got something (+2 command stars and "winning first") when he was in command, but meh, I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity to fight.

[TevashSzat]

My computer is now fixed and I am back to being active on the forums.

Long story short, I had to do a clean installation of Windows XP and then had to find all of the drivers on the internet by using a 7 years old laptop which took like 15min to get start up programs up and running. After many frustrating hours, I finally got everything up and running. :beam:

[Stuperman]

Glad to hear u r back in action.

[FactionHeir]

Stuperman: I hope you also had the fix installed when you fought the battle, yes? ;)

Progress Report: I just finished checking the character_trait file and fixed numerous bugs that were still left over from 1.1 in 1.2 (albeit less) and several newly introduced bugs. Still need to make similar amends to the related string.bin file.
Will then start work on ancillaries.

[Stuperman]

I had KotrFix1.01a installed.

[FactionHeir]

Ok great, just making sure :)

Further progress report:
Finished work on ancillaries. Now comes the painful and tedious work of putting everything into string.bin :S That will take hours

[FactionHeir]

Well ended up not taking as long as I had anticipated, and I hopefully didn't miss anything while fixing descriptions in the vnv string bin file (the others are fine).

I've repackaged the files as KOTRfixes12.rar locally, but have not uploaded it yet as it might otherwise cause confusion. Will upload once 1.2 in officially out or someone really wants to have it :)

I also got a minor update for both 1.1 version files (1.02), but I don't know if its necessary to update to that version yet. If you want to, let me know. It only fixes pagan magicians and 1 broken trait trigger really.

[FactionHeir]

Let me know what you think of my introductory story. Took me some 3 hours to think and write it and towards the end I got a bit tired (Its way past midnight here) so the quality might have deteriorated a bit.

[Northnovas]

Let me know what you think of my introductory story. Took me some 3 hours to think and write it and towards the end I got a bit tired (Its way past midnight here) so the quality might have deteriorated a bit.

It's early here your tiredness does not show. Good read and nice twist will Dad be surpirsed!?

[Stuperman]

Hey guys, I woke up this moirning to find that my sister has had her baby!

this is a bit of a surprise because she wasn't due for 3 and a half weeks, neways, I'm going home today to see her, and will be without a computer that is M@TW capable, I'll still have internet, just no p[laying battle for me.

Sorry about the short notice!

[OverKnight]

Congratulations Stuperman! I think Gerhard would be an excellent name btw. :beam:



This might leave us with a quandary, since we've got a battle outside Venice. . .

Is it too late to back track and give it to GH?

Or since Stuperman played Conrad, technically, could GH play Gerhard for one battle. Two birds one stone?

Just some thoughts. . .

Edit: I'm heading out the door soon, I should be back Monday night GMT -4.

[TinCow]

Conrad can't get there this turn, so that's not a possibility. I say just autoresolve it (which is technically the rule). The odds are pretty heavily in our favor and it should be a guaranteed victory.

[Ituralde]

We should give him the required 48 hours then. He didn't say how long he will be gone, but hopefully he can clarify it, since he still has internet access.

[Warluster]

Hey all, I am back from my camping trip, it went a bit longer then expected, so I am very tierd!

It seems nothing massively major happened, is the Crusade gone off yet? Or are they all hanging around drinking beer still?

[TinCow]

The Crusade has just entered Hungarian territory, so we're still in decent beer-drinking territory.

[Ignoramus]

Great work with the chronology, OverKnight!

OverKnight, if you don't mind, I intend to write-up the history of the Reich as a history book. Your chronology will be very useful, thanks.

[OverKnight]

Feel free to use the Chronology. Just realize that it is a work in progress and some of the years might be wrong.

Look foward to reading the history.

[AussieGiant]

Quite simple my young Padawan,

I have a boring third shift job with internet access and a lax IT department.



Yes my Master. Everything is now clear now that I have been shown the way. :)

[Warluster]

As Dijon is currently under siege, I want to sally forth, so can I jsut download the save game and sally forth, or do I have to wait?

And can we propose edicts, or does someone have to oopen another session?

[Ituralde]

You had to wait until the 48 hours for Stuperman had expired, which happened minutes ago. I autocalced the battle and we won a Clear Victory and Gerhard Steffen received a boost in his command stat.

Warluster now has the savegame and will sally forth against the French.

I'm sorry that the game has slowed down a little, but with the funeral last week and Easter, plus the 48 hours wait to autoresolve the battle, have delayed us a little. I'll try to hurry up in the days to come! :2thumbsup:

[Warluster]

O can't play the savegame toda, it shall be ready tomorrow.

[FactionHeir]

Warluster, how did you escape out of Dijon and run all the way to Rome to say something in the Diet? :p
Maybe you should get all your men out of the city and tip the French on their backs as a surprise? :D

[Warluster]

Well it invlolved camels, da vinci and beer, but I manage to slip out of Dijon :)

[Stuperman]

Gald to hear I won, sorry about the short notice, but it was a big surprise for everyone. It looks like I'm here for 5 or 6 more days before I get back, mom and child doing well, no name yet, but a healthy baby boy 7lbz 13 oz. As I said I can't fight battles, for a bit but I'll be around. I should have the official battle report up tomorrow.

[Warluster]

I won the battle at Dijon.

I lost 345 but I killed 681. And I gained two command stars for the victory. DO I need to send in a battle report? And to who?

[OverKnight]

1. Upload the save as a zip or rar file (I don't see it yet).
2. Send a PM of the casualty screen to the Chancellor, Ituralde
3. If you want to write a battle report, put a placeholder in the battle reports thread.
4. Have a beer in celebration of the victory and start writing the report. :2thumbsup:

[FactionHeir]

I won the battle at Dijon.

I lost 345 but I killed 681.

And in the diet you said we barely lost 100? How does that work? Or you just trying to make it sound more glorious ICly? :p

Btw, how did you repel them? Using the tactic I posted or straight rush?

[Warluster]

I tried to do the battle but my computer lagged so I had to autoresolve it!

[Ignoramus]

I'm just unsure as to how Ulrich can be knighted now. He is the one who is to take Metz, by the order of the Kasier. However, as he is not a knight yet, he will have to fight under another's command. It is ironic, considering he's a proven commander.

[FactionHeir]

Well you can autoresolve for the battle. For knighting, you probably want to fight alongside Jobst or so.

I've had a few looks around the 1.2 files (I don't have it installed but I got the files to play and test with) and it seems CA didn't change anything in terms of units, so Forlorn Hope is still 1hp and HRE still can't train DGK.
Also, now inquisitors are prevented from trying heirs and leaders, but this can be toggled in the campaign_db file. (probably want to have a vote on whether that is wanted or not)
Inquisitors are also only able to fail or succeed 3 times before they get bumped to 0 piety. That is also togglable, but in the character_trait file. Desired or not?

[Ituralde]

@Ignoramus:

Yeah, looks like he will play a secondary role in the taking of Metz, but at least he was there. :2thumbsup:
On the same topic I assume that Conrad Salier was knighted by Gerhard Steffen after the battle of the Po river.

@Warluster:

Pleas save the game make a .zip or .rar file from it and upload it via the pbm uploader stickied at the top of this page. Otherwise I can't continue the game.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[Ignoramus]

No, if Ulrich doesn't command the army taking Metz, he doesn't become Duke. And I'd prefer not to risk my avatar in an auto-resolved battle.

[Ituralde]

Yeah, I was planning to ask econ21 how I should handle the situation OOC.
Even the autocalc would not be exactly legal. Since Ulrich is not yet knighted he can not command armies. Maybe I can put you in a fight against some of the French stacks together with Jobst, before you attack Metz. Then you can be knighted and can fulfill your lieges request.
In the end this boils down to an IC conflict, with Henry giving orders that are hard for Ulrich to fulfill. I think we can work something out. So no worries! :2thumbsup:

[Warluster]

Does Ulrich have to be knighted by The Kaiser, or can I maybe knight him after a battle.

I'd be happy to attack that french STack wandering outside of Dijon (again...) and I'll knight Ulrich after the battle (But if he just sits there...)

[Ituralde]

I believe every Army Commander can knight a noble that has fought with him. Although it is supposed to be a reward. But since you would be controlling the battle it would also be your choice whether Ulrich just sits there or does something. :beam:

[FactionHeir]

Send him charging into some heavy inf! :)

[TinCow]

Yep, anyone can knight an avatar that has fought in his army. In this rather unusual case, if another battle can't be summoned up easily, I would just have econ21 formally knight him somehow and be done with it. Too many complications otherwise.

[OverKnight]

What is the status of the save? I see KotR1070-4 which is the save leading to the sally out of Dijon, that's from one or two days back.

If Warluster auto-calced due to techincal issues surrounding so many units around a city, Ituralde could just take the last save and auto-calc it and continue. The results would be identical to Warluster's.

Is there a reason for the delay in uploading? Or are we facing a breakdown in communications?