Ahem

[Zim]

Maybe we could do a poll to see how many KOTR players have or would be willing to buy Kingdoms?

I suspect that a non-Kingdoms mod is the best way to go if we want as many players as possible.

[gibsonsg91921]

Ooo... I would have to pass if there was a mod. My parents are hesitant of mods being downloaded on their work computers. They don't even like games, period, being there.

[TinCow]

Eek! It's almost certain that we'll pick a mod of some sort. I would hate to see you excluded. Would it help if some of us older folks explained that it's perfectly safe for the computer, and that these games stimulate the imagination and encourage creative writing? It's educational!

[Zim]

I sympathise, having my own mod problems (in my case, it's just downloading the mod that's hard, because my internet connection is so slow. ).

But didn't KOTR have a mod? Or was that ok because it was smaller?

Ooo... I would have to pass if there was a mod. My parents are hesitant of mods being downloaded on their work computers. They don't even like games, period, being there.

[TinCow]

I sympathise, having my own mod problems (in my case, it's just downloading the mod that's hard, because my internet connection is so slow. ).

I will happily burn DVDs with the needed mods and mail them to anyone who needs them, if that's the difference between playing the next game or not.

[Zim]

Another point for BC or any other realism mods. It's "educational".

If I were a parent, I'd actually consider a game like this a pretty good way to turn what is already a fun game into a way to get a kid into creative writing and critical thinking (all the intrigue and politics). Playing it has certainly been more useful than even some of the Political Science courses I took in college.

Eek! It's almost certain that we'll pick a mod of some sort. I would hate to see you excluded. Would it help if some of us older folks explained that it's perfectly safe for the computer, and that these games stimulate the imagination and encourage creative writing? It's educational!

[Zim]

I would gladly accept that offer. I'm stuck with an incredibly slow dial up connection on my gaming computer. Even if I could count on it not cutting out a day or two into the download, people do need to use the phone occasionally. I have another computer with a mediocre wireless connection, but not only does it cut out constantly (making downloading any mod an adventure) but I don't have a thumb drive nearly big enough for most newer mods.

I will happily burn DVDs with the needed mods and mail them to anyone who needs them, if that's the difference between playing the next game or not.

[gibsonsg91921]

Haha, my parents are reluctant to install any games, let alone community-based mods. If I were to spin it as a community patch with awards and no errors (it would have to be literally a Stainless mod with almost no bugs and absolutely nothing that would change the basic operation of the computer) then it might be possible. It may take a while for me to join. If I can't, I'll be there on the sidelines or take up the Maximillian von Tyrolia-esque role again.

'Sides, you rascals wouldn't want me anyways.

[AussieGiant]

Haha, my parents are reluctant to install any games, let alone community-based mods. If I were to spin it as a community patch with awards and no errors (it would have to be literally a Stainless mod with almost no bugs and absolutely nothing that would change the basic operation of the computer) then it might be possible. It may take a while for me to join. If I can't, I'll be there on the sidelines or take up the Maximillian von Tyrolia-esque role again.

'Sides, you rascals wouldn't want me anyways.

Bollocks Gibbo. I want you...now that sounded just wrong...but everyone knows what I mean!!

As for the mods:

I really don't want something that is not up to the standard of the CA development levels. This game and these mods are hugely complex pieces of code and whichever one 'We' take will by default get a massive test that most single play campaigns can never hope to replicate.

It really has to be bullet proof in my opinion otherwise we could run into issues that could make the things we saw in this game seem minor.

Personally I'd like Econ or TC to ask the boys from CA what they think and get back to us with their professional opinions. That question is ask with an outline of what the community is going to be doing with it, technically, and as the back drop for the game we play with it.

Tc/Econ do you think that is possible?

[TinCow]

I really don't want something that is not up to the standard of the CA development levels. This game and these mods are hugely complex pieces of code and whichever one 'We' take will by default get a massive test that most single play campaigns can never hope to replicate.

It really has to be bullet proof in my opinion otherwise we could run into issues that could make the things we saw in this game seem minor.

Personally I'd like Econ or TC to ask the boys from CA what they think and get back to us with their professional opinions. That question is ask with an outline of what the community is going to be doing with it, technically, and as the back drop for the game we play with it.

Tc/Econ do you think that is possible?

I don't think stability will be a problem as long as we use a well-known mod like BC or SS. They already have a lot of players and have dedicated modding crews who fix bugs when they pop up. WOTS used the RTR mod and we didn't have any significant problems with it.

[deguerra]

Quite frankly some CA projects (*cough* kingdoms *cough*) are a little unpolished themselves. Sure you might run into some minor issues with mods (they are constantly updated for a reason, but I don't think it should be a dramatic problem.

[AussieGiant]

Great good to hear.

I think someone is going to have to walk me through making sure I can play MTWII with FH's VnV updates (which I think is a perfect level to play on), and then play this next game with what ever mod we choose.

I'm certain there is more than enough support here in the group for that to happen.

It certainly seems as if SS or BC are going to be the two main option.

And yes deguerra, the state of Kingdoms is why I didn't purchase it. It was a little "under done" for my tastes and I don't want to purchase something like that from CA...they can pull their socks up a little more than that before I spend some more money on them...of course this is just my opinion as an informed CA consumer for 9 odd years.

[deguerra]

Agree with you 100%. The only reason I finally buckled under was because of the mods and because people were having so much fun with hotseat campaigns. But I picked it up over the internet somewhere for something in the vicinity of 15 dollars Australian, so I didn't feel too cheated :D

[Ramses II CP]

Something we really have to take into account is that if we don't move to Kingdoms we'll be cutting ourselves off from the future patches for most of the mods. Almost all of them are moving to Kingdoms only releases now, evidently because of some improved development options. There are known issues with SS 4.1, BC, DLV, etc. that simply won't be fixed.

I guess that's fairly likely anyway, since we can't install any patch that's save game incompatible, but it still has an impact.

All of which appears to argue for Vanilla, except for the fact that vanilla is just not up to par. Even with all the work of the cataclysm, cash cowing, and the AI uber armies no one looking at the year by year development of the strategy map would mistake which KotR nation was played by a human.

[Privateerkev]

In the end, I'm up for what ever is the most inclusive. If it's pure vanilla M2TW, that is fine, I'll just dual install. If it's vanilla with FH's trait fix, that's fine too. Kingdoms, no problem. M2TW mod, fine with me as long as it is stable. Kingdoms mod, sure. Whatever keeps the most of us together.

I want to be as flexible as possible so it allows others who aren't as flexible to be able to play. I know some people have parent computers, download issues, money problems, hard drive space limitations, ect... so I want to help them as much as possible.

I'm confident that with this group of players, we can make any version of the game a cool playing experience.

[FactionHeir]

Once I get around testing some more changes (and possibly beef up the number of armies for the hordes) for VanillaMod and it works all right, I might be willing to suggest that too. That is, unless you guys are bored of vanilla type gaming

[Ferret]

I would prefer a bigger map at least and new units would be nice, plain old vanilla seems boring after all the great mods that are out...

[Zim]

I'd like to second that (two more things BC has going for it! :D ). At the very least, if we play FactionHeir's mod, could the Big Map mod somehow be added to it? More settlements not only means more space for the player characters to play around in and fight over, but makes it easier to absorb a lot of players. It means more marriages, chidren born, etc since they're tied to the number of provinces you have.

I would prefer a bigger map at least and new units would be nice, plain old vanilla seems boring after all the great mods that are out...

[deguerra]

Good point Zim.

[gibsonsg91921]

I just tweaked my parents with the idea of downloading a mod and they aren't too thrilled about it. My mom is worried about the reliability of a mod that wasn't made by the actual CA. If you would be able to get CA approval for a mod we picked, that would be amazing.

[FactionHeir]

I'd like to second that (two more things BC has going for it! :D ). At the very least, if we play FactionHeir's mod, could the Big Map mod somehow be added to it? More settlements not only means more space for the player characters to play around in and fight over, but makes it easier to absorb a lot of players. It means more marriages, chidren born, etc since they're tied to the number of provinces you have.

Warluster was supposed to make a larger map for it but he vanished sometime ago with it. That's one of the things I had planned for the mod.

[deguerra]

Gibson, to what extent do your parents know what a mod is? I can understand a certain...reluctance to anything that is not "officially" published, but given that
a) a lot of stuff officially published is still crap; and
b) if any sort of problem with a mod is run into, it can be very easily uninstalled, and the game will be back to normal (even more so, now that mods actually have their own locations), I can't help but think their fears should be able to be addressed.

I don't think CA can "approve" of a mod, simply because they would never be willing to take responsibility for something that they do not control.

I was going to say something else of vast intelligence and pivotal to the overall debate, but it has escaped me.

[gibsonsg91921]

Deguerra, your thoughts parallel my own. I think they're afraid a mod would alter something non-M2TW based or have some secret Spyware. Maybe I'd accidentally download it from some shady place that hides viruses along with. Who knows? Haha.

[FactionHeir]

They were OK with my fixes though?

[Northnovas]

Deguerra, your thoughts parallel my own. I think they're afraid a mod would alter something non-M2TW based or have some secret Spyware. Maybe I'd accidentally download it from some shady place that hides viruses along with. Who knows? Haha.

They must not use the internet!? You have more problems surfing and visiting sites then you do loading a trusted mod on to your computer. There are a lot of nasty things out there and at least they are aware of potential issues but a trusted gaming mod would should not be a concern.

I am very vigilant what I download and where I surf so I can see where they are coming from but I have never had an issue with a popular gaming mod.

[gibsonsg91921]

Your fixes were fine cuz they were really small and I called them mini-patches.