Stardock's new game -- Elemental: War of Magic

[Martok]

There's actually been a lot of developer journals released the last few weeks. Anyone interested in Elemental's lore, mechanics, gameplay, etc. would be well-advised to check them out!


EDIT: Whoops, forgot to include link....

[al Roumi]

Hmm, Stardock joining up with Random House to provide a backstory to Elemental. Interesting. There have been plenty of books based on games, and games based on books, but have they ever been jointly conceived from so early in the process like this?

Could be a cost effective and productive partnership, both parties working to their comparative advantages and reinforcing their joint product.

That said, having a bunch of non-named writers from a publisher is not a guarantee of a good or original story, so we could just see more Fantasy "cheese" like Dragon age. For that matter, they've already recycled the name Morrigan... meh.

[Xiahou]

Some footage of what next weeks Beta should look like.

Also, the release date is currently set for August- much sooner than I had expected....

[drone]

I like the zoomed out map, looks a lot like the old maps in the LotR books.

[Martok]

Also, there's been quite a few previews released in the last week as well. Nothing terribly exciting in any of them, but they do contain a bit more new info.

Also, the release date is currently set for August- much sooner than I had expected....

I wouldn't count the eggs on that yet. Brad has said the release is largely going to depend on how good/bad the AI (for which he's still the primary programmer) is at that point, and that the game could easily be delayed if it's not up to his standards.

I just hope that Elemental is at least still released no later than September, as he's said that otherwise it won't be out til February.

[Xiahou]

Beta2 is out!
Here's a couple screens:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My capital city, ensconced within a protective cirque...



A closer look...



Extreme closeup!



A different angle, that shows how protected we are geographically...

If you look closely at the city, you may notice a large number of gardens built throughout. These are a drawback to building a city away from fertile land. If I had a fertile land tile nearby, I could build a farm on it that could take the place of many of these gardens. At each stage of your city's growth, you only have so many usable tiles and having to dedicate so many to the food supply limits what you can use for more important structures- Often it felt like I was just filling my city with gardens and housing. Eventually, I alleviated this somewhat by founding a nearby town that had access to fertile land for a farm. But then, I'm outsourcing my city's food supply which would probably be a huge disaster if I lost my farming town. (Luckily, the AI is still fairly stupid at this point- so I shouldnt have to worry.)

I wouldn't count the eggs on that yet. Brad has said the release is largely going to depend on how good/bad the AI (for which he's still the primary programmer) is at that point, and that the game could easily be delayed if it's not up to his standards.

Actually, according to Brad, the beta is well ahead of schedule. But either way I'm fine. I'll either be playing the retail game or the near-complete beta by this fall.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Oh... so tempting...

Can I still get into the beta if I pre-order now?

And as far as well-protected goes, just be glad modern artillery isn't in the game or you'd be looking at Dien Bien Phu. :P

[Xiahou]

Oh... so tempting...

Can I still get into the beta if I pre-order now?

I believe the way it works is that whenever a new update comes out, all those that have preorded since the last one get in. So, in a week or so when the next update to Beta2 comes out, you'd get access. At least I think that's how it's supposed to work....

And as far as well-protected goes, just be glad modern artillery isn't in the game or you'd be looking at Dien Bien Phu. :P

They may not look it, but all those mountains to the rear are impassable.

[Beskar]

You know, that game looks so good, i might actually having to install Impulse in order to play. Though, I would prefer a non-Impulse version or is there a way to play the game after you bought it without having impulse on?

Edit: Just pre-ordered it and actually installing Impulse now. I am going to do what I did Steam, and just only load it up when I want to play a game from it.

Edit4: "Cannot download datafile" that is the error message I am getting when I am trying to play.

[Xiahou]

You know, that game looks so good, i might actually having to install Impulse in order to play. Though, I would prefer a non-Impulse version or is there a way to play the game after you bought it without having impulse on?

Edit: Just pre-ordered it and actually installing Impulse now. I am going to do what I did Steam, and just only load it up when I want to play a game from it.

Once the game is installed, you only need Impulse to update it. You don't need to have it running or (afaik) even installed to play.

Edit4: "Cannot download datafile" that is the error message I am getting when I am trying to play.

Find a way past that yet? I got lots of CTDs early in the beta, but I never had trouble launching the game.

[Beskar]

Find a way past that yet? I got lots of CTDs early in the beta, but I never had trouble launching the game.

I haven't. The residence I am staying at gets its internet through the Universities. The plus side is a cheap (£75 per year), unlimited, very fast internet (speeds of 6-10mb/s contantly).

Downside is, everything needs to be configured to use the internet in the proxy settings. While some games and programmes seem to work perfectly fine (Left4Dead, Steam, MSN, Firefox, Borderlands since MadMoxxi DLC), others don't (Games by EA, adobe flash installer plugin, etc). It seems this datafile is one of those things which fail to connect, thus making the beta inoperatable. Also, the datafile is meant to be part of the anti-piracy Stardock have in place for the beta, so it is something they will not be removing. I asked over on their forums anyway.

[al Roumi]

Also, the datafile is meant to be part of the anti-piracy Stardock have in place for the beta, so it is something they will not be removing. I asked over on their forums anyway.

That sounds like it could be a bit frustrating....

I pre-ordered a while ago and have been playing around with Beta 2 for the last couple of days. I don't think you should feel like you are missing much yet.

Its a very clunky beta with zombie AI and basic issues (innability to save/reload) abound, over half the game is disabled for the Public beta.

That's the thing, they are still running a private beta before passing something out to the public. I can completely understand this from a marketing point of view, but it does tend to make the pre-order Beta a bit less meaty than one might (naively) imagine, and more like a PR stunt. Also, as the IP is still being built up (or in fact dictated by Stardock -not the beta players), there is such a wide constituency of opinions on what type of game Elemental should be that the forum discussions tend to be a bit rambling.

As far as i'm concerned, the game is shaping up to be an interesting 4X city based strategy game. The plans for tactical combat leave me a little cold, I'm not clear how they will work in practice or sure I'm too keen on them (this is one area where stardock has just decided for tiself what to do, which is of course their right!), but then no tactical combat has yet made it onto any public beta.

The game's premise of rediscovering and re-creating mankind and its civilisations (as if an appocalypse had occured in 1400 or so) means that the setting is very much Medieval/early renaissance tech, plus a helping of Magic and a side of pulp fantasy.

I am still highly dubious of the quality of the book which will accompany the game. As i think I posted before, I think its an interesting thing to do, I just don't know if a game designer's comparative advantage lies in novel writing.

I would also be very surprised to see anything released this summer. The repeated and heavy hints about "ready to take the time to make it right" etc strongly indicate to me that this won't be released before Feb 2011.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Yeah, between comments here, on the Elemental site, and on RPS I've decided to hold off on pre-ordering and just play the final product.

[Beskar]

ok, I got around to playing this.

In short - It is Civ4.

It is the whole square city expansion system, turns, etc. Includes these odd random quests. Have a "hero unit" which goes around doing stuff.

[Xiahou]

Its a very clunky beta with zombie AI and basic issues (innability to save/reload) abound, over half the game is disabled for the Public beta.

What?? Or more accurately, outside the zombie AI, what???
I save and reload often... there's an autosave feature that's already in and functioning. The only limitation is that you must exit the game and re-launch to load the game. It has to do with the way the worlds are currently being created.

I've never heard a word about a public beta- where are you getting this idea from?

Edit: Beta2A will be out this week:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This week we plan to release Beta 2-A of Elemental.

Once Beta 2-A goes out, we will be closing the beta for new users until Beta 3. To join the beta, simply pre-order the game.

Now, for those of you not used to being in a Stardock beta, let me emphasize once again: These betas are NOT fun. They are not supposed to be fun. They are NOT demos or representative of the final game play or even the final graphics.

What to expect from Beta 2-A

There have been a lot of game play changes based on player feedback.

In no particular order these are the areas we’ve been heavily modifying:

* Major changes to city building. Generally, a lot fewer improvements being built and the ones there have more impact. Generally speaking, you will only build 1 of a given improvement in a city. Better improvements will require higher level cities. 1 to 2 housing units is typically sufficient to go up (but food is more precious since you can’t crank out gardens anymore).
* More mobility in general (units get more moves)
* Monsters properly spawn based on toughness (i.e. generally no more crazy monsters right outside your base)
* AI improvements (still primitive though)
* More items
* More quests
* Beginning of cleanup to the tech tree
* Customize Sovereign enabled
* Lots of bug fixing (alt-esc crash fixed)
* Balance work on items, equipment, etc.
* Some graphics and animation improvements

[al Roumi]

I've never heard a word about a public beta- where are you getting this idea from?

Ok, it's not a public beta. But because Stardock obviously can't send out un-quality assured code to its consumers, they are also running an internal Beta testing schedule. The Beta which pre-order customers have access to is in between a "public" Beta and an internal Beta. Essentially, it's very similar to Mount and Blade's development although Elemental is (currently) less complete/polished and hence less fun to test/play than Mount and Blade was.

What?? Or more accurately, outside the zombie AI, what???
I save and reload often... there's an autosave feature that's already in and functioning. The only limitation is that you must exit the game and re-launch to load the game. It has to do with the way the worlds are currently being created.

Ok, well I've had a problem loading a saved game from a manual save file. Manual saves work fine. I've also had numerous other bugs, e.g. combat not triggering (and freezing the game) when attacking bandit hut. Plus graphics problems where city buildings jump about a bit or fail to be drawn by the 3d engine when zooming from cloth map to terrain.

I'm not making a big deal of these problems, my expectation is that the Beta isn't much fun and won't be for a while. Stardock are clearly keen to ensure no one is under any illusion to the contrary -as in your last post's spoiler.

Edit: I'm very pleased that they have at least fixed the memory leaks

It's an interesting experience being involved in the Beta though. I followed M&B's development very closely for over a year before its eventual release. Stardock are more consultative (or at least informative) than Taleworlds were, but it would be naive for anyone to think the pre-order Beta community really has that much sway over the product -Stardock have some very strong ideas on how the game should be. I should perhaps also be clear that they have every right to follow their vision, they are clearly the professionals!

[Xiahou]

I'm not making a big deal of these problems, my expectation is that the Beta isn't much fun and won't be for a while. Stardock are clearly keen to ensure no one is under any illusion to the contrary -as in your last post's spoiler.

It's an interesting experience being involved in the Beta though. I followed M&B's development very closely for over a year before its eventual release. Stardock are more consultative (or at least informative) than Taleworlds were, but it would be naive for anyone to think the pre-order Beta community really has that much sway over the product -Stardock have some very strong ideas on how the game should be. I should perhaps also be clear that they have every right to follow their vision, they are clearly the professionals!

Actually, I sometimes worry that they listen too much to the community. There's been a couple of occasions where it sounds like they've been talked out of doing things I thought sounded good by the community.

[Decker]

Which were those things that you thought they should have kept but the community said otherwise?

[Xiahou]

Which were those things that you thought they should have kept but the community said otherwise?

Well, for example, in the most recent beta, many players were complaining about the amount of housing structures you had to build to grow your town. I really didn't think you had to make that many and as I explained previously I thought the balancing act with food and housing on limited tiles was a nice strategic balancing act.

Here's the city from my earlier posts at the maximum population level:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I didn't really think that was too much urban sprawl- if anything, it still looked a bit tiny and yet:

Major changes to city building. Generally, a lot fewer improvements being built and the ones there have more impact. Generally speaking, you will only build 1 of a given improvement in a city. Better improvements will require higher level cities. 1 to 2 housing units is typically sufficient to go up (but food is more precious since you can’t crank out gardens anymore).

Myself and a handful of others groused about this some, but I'm keeping an open mind about it and hoping/expecting that once I play with the changes, I'll like even better than the current. I just keep thinking in the back of my mind, "I hope they dont listen to the community too much and stick to their vision." Cuz frankly, you can't please everyone and if you try to, you're probably going to end up with a boring game.

Based on their track record, I think it's probably going to all work out for the best- but they definitely do seem to read beta players feedback and seem quick to implement anything they think is a good idea.

[al Roumi]

Major changes to city building. Generally, a lot fewer improvements being built and the ones there have more impact. Generally speaking, you will only build 1 of a given improvement in a city. Better improvements will require higher level cities. 1 to 2 housing units is typically sufficient to go up (but food is more precious since you can’t crank out gardens anymore).

I didn't really think that was too much urban sprawl- if anything, it still looked a bit tiny and yet:Myself and a handful of others groused about this some, but I'm keeping an open mind about it and hoping/expecting that once I play with the changes, I'll like even better than the current. I just keep thinking in the back of my mind, "I hope they dont listen to the community too much and stick to their vision." Cuz frankly, you can't please everyone and if you try to, you're probably going to end up with a boring game.

I kind of understand why they might rationalise the list of buildings, there are a lot in Beta 2 which have the same effects and appear functionaly very similar. I also get that building 4*1 house is a bit lame write large over several cities. It would be simpler and easier for the player to build the "1 unit of housing" required to advance to the next city level in fewer steps. not sure what the downsides of that would really be either.

Based on their track record, I think it's probably going to all work out for the best- but they definitely do seem to read beta players feedback and seem quick to implement anything they think is a good idea.

I have to admit the possibility that the tactical combat decisions have had a disproportionate impact on my perception of how much they have been listening...

[Xiahou]

Beta 2B will be out this week. And...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In Beta 2 and Beta 2-A, we disabled the Adventure, Diplomacy, and Magic technology trees and enabled Civilization and Warfare.

In Beta 2-B, we are disabling Civilization and Warfare and enabling Adventure and magic.

But wait! How will wars be conducted? It is just going to be a mob of NPC recruits? How do we get food? How do we design better units? How do we better equip our sovereign and our champions?

The answer: Magic and Adventuring. Summon units. Get rare items. Enchant the land. Enchant your cities. Go on better quests to get much better stuff. Get access to far more powerful heroes.

This sounds very RPG'y- should be interesting...

[Krusader]

Enjoyed Beta 2A and so far latest city changes seem good...but why are there no swords for custom sovereign? Its silly with some of the clearly sword poses there and you're holding a club!

[al Roumi]

Enjoyed Beta 2A and so far latest city changes seem good...but why are there no swords for custom sovereign? Its silly with some of the clearly sword poses there and you're holding a club!

yeah, the extent to which some areas are not complete/in the pre-order beta can be frustrating, but that's what we signed up for. I was particualrily frustrated by the lack of metal to mine in the 2A map...

I'm finding 2-B rather difficult/trying. It's the first time I've ever dabbled with magic and although I had understood it might allow an alternative route to the usual harvest, mine, manufacture -I've not got that far yet. Not even being able to research & build farms restricts city growth and building -so it's ahrder to get a shard to mine.

Bring on Beta 3. In his recent posts, Brad seems to be confident of meeting the August release date...

[Xiahou]

Enjoyed Beta 2A and so far latest city changes seem good...but why are there no swords for custom sovereign? Its silly with some of the clearly sword poses there and you're holding a club!

Also, I believe your portrait reflects whatever equipment you're currently using. If you replace the club with a sword once you start adventuring, your portrait should update accordingly.

Bring on Beta 3. In his recent posts, Brad seems to be confident of meeting the August release date...

I understand their current development builds are quite a bit different than ours, but man it seems like there's still alot to do in so short a time.

Edit: I think Beta3 is out today. Here's the changelog.

[al Roumi]

I understand their current development builds are quite a bit different than ours, but man it seems like there's still alot to do in so short a time.

Edit: I think Beta3 is out today. Here's the changelog.

Yeah, Brad's been mentioning August 24th... We've not seen Multiplayer or tactical battles yet... My guess is much will be added in "free updates" post release.

And Beta 3 is now OUT, my install had an available update on Impulse when I checked this morning.

[Xiahou]

Beta4 is out now. Based on the short time I've spent with it, it's finally starting to play like a game- that is, it's enjoyable and cohesive. Tactical battles are looking pretty good too.

[al Roumi]

Yep, definitley. I'm happy to say it seems very much more complete than I expected. It's been fun!

Edit:

While the above may be true, we (pre-order beta players) are still in for suprises:

"Now, I do regret that those of you playing beta 4 will not easily recognize the final game. I mean that literally. The final game will look quite a bit different in terms of UI and gameplay. There are good reasons to hold back on this stuff until as late as possible."

Also (in the same post), in Europe the game will only be available (as of 24th August) by direct download. Elsewhere there will be box versions for sale in most retailers it seems.

[Beskar]

I have to admit, I am sort of holding off on the game, as I wasn't too impressed with the issues I had in the beta. (mainly their anti-piracy ones which conflicted with my connection type)

[Xiahou]

I have to admit, I am sort of holding off on the game, as I wasn't too impressed with the issues I had in the beta. (mainly their anti-piracy ones which conflicted with my connection type)

Why hold off? You already bought it.

[Beskar]

Why hold off? You already bought it.

hold off, as in, waiting for the finished product.

Then I can give the game another chance, especially as I can't refund it. (damn Stardock)