Stardock's new game -- Elemental: War of Magic

[al Roumi]

hold off, as in, waiting for the finished product.

Then I can give the game another chance, especially as I can't refund it. (damn Stardock)

If you've not really got involved up till now and aren't feeling the urge to do so, I'd guess even Stardock would urge you to wait till release (and the day 0 patch!).

Throughout the process, they've been very clear that it's not the final product which is available for pre-order beta testing and the section i quoted above goes further to demonstrate that what is finaly released will be different even to beta 4.

[Beskar]

Yeah, I mean only able to play the Beta unless I was at my parents, and all these other issues just compounded issue upon issue. Didn't help that I found using Impulse really awkward as well. I prefer to keep my games and files together and seperate, and Impulse installed everything, everywhere.

It looked okay when I got it to work, but it being in Beta wasn't the best either.

[Xiahou]

Yeah, I mean only able to play the Beta unless I was at my parents, and all these other issues just compounded issue upon issue. Didn't help that I found using Impulse really awkward as well. I prefer to keep my games and files together and seperate, and Impulse installed everything, everywhere..

That's completely customizable. You just have to look at your settings. You can specify installation directories, temp file directories, ect..

Personally, I really like Impulse. But, the best thing about it (compared to more popular digital distribution platforms) is that once the game is installed, you never need to run Impulse again.

[al Roumi]

I know I really shouldn't be surprised, or have expected much in the first place, but this really does sound like Horse poo:

Elemental, Destiny's Embers

I just hope it has minimal impact on the game, although the most recent Dev journals are all about adding material from the book to the game. Were I 15, i suspect I might have been a little more enthusisastic, but the product description makes really does a bad job of making the book sound original or even interesting.

Perhaps I'm being unkind, Brad's talents certainly lie in code writing -perhaps not book writing.

2 weeks to go now for the game to be released...

[Decker]

I think I've heard of that story a thousand times already....

[Xiahou]

Product Description
At a frontier outpost on the fringes of the civilized world, an orphaned messenger named Xander witnesses the destruction of all he knows at the hands of the Fallen, the great enemy thought vanquished during the War of Magic.

Abruptly, Xander’s life is changed forever. Now he must seek out an ancient artifact of legendary power in the hopes that it can stop the Fallen hordes from destroying the entire kingdom. Little does he realize that the hope of all mankind rests on his young shoulders, as powers of unimaginable might set out to stop him at all costs.

Aided by his friend Genica, a mysterious thief named Vreen, and a crafty Sion of unknown loyalty, Xander journeys into the heart of the world, where long-hidden secrets will be revealed that could shatter the delicate balance established by the great Cataclysm a thousand years earlier.

Eh- it sounds like it could be an entertaining read, even if it doesn't win awards for originality. Really, it's a book for fans of the game who want more color and backstory to it.

As to effect on the game, I've heard that the book will contain a code that can be used to unlock a bonus mini-campaign based on characters in the book.

[Martok]

Man, I can't wait for this. Only a couple more weeks til I receive my Limited Edition copy. Woot!

Seriously, I am really looking forward to it. I've wanted a Civ-style 4x fantasy strategy game for a long time now, and Elemental looks like it's going to hit all my "sweet spots".

As to effect on the game, I've heard that the book will contain a code that can be used to unlock a bonus mini-campaign based on characters in the book.

That's correct; at least, Frogboy (Brad Wardell) himself has said as much.

Not sure if I'll be getting the novel or not. I've found Brad's pretty good when it comes to backstory material for his games, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a decent book.

[Beskar]

That's correct; at least, Frogboy (Brad Wardell) himself has said as much.

Is he related to a certain other froggy? :O

[Martok]

If he is, I suspect it would come as a huge surprise to them both.

[al Roumi]

Man, I can't wait for this. Only a couple more weeks til I receive my Limited Edition copy. Woot!

Seriously, I am really looking forward to it. I've wanted a Civ-style 4x fantasy strategy game for a long time now, and Elemental looks like it's going to hit all my "sweet spots".

I'm looking forward to it but I'm also kind of swamped. Finishing off an ME2 Sentinel campaign on Hardcore, ascending the learning curve in Vicky and Starcraft is installed although i've not even started a single mission yet!

[frogbeastegg]

Anyone know if they're going to release a boxed retail version in the UK? I know several US groups are selling it but I can't find the game listed anywhere on UK online shops and the game's official site is not very helpful. The price on Impulse is much too high - £10 more than I'd expect to pay for a PC game! That's the standard edition. If I can't find a cheaper alternative I'll have to pass until impulse run a half price sale or something.

[Martok]

Anyone know if they're going to release a boxed retail version in the UK? I know several US groups are selling it but I can't find the game listed anywhere on UK online shops and the game's official site is not very helpful. The price on Impulse is much too high - £10 more than I'd expect to pay for a PC game! That's the standard edition. If I can't find a cheaper alternative I'll have to pass until impulse run a half price sale or something.

The short answer is, "I don't know." From what I've read so far, though, I'm admittedly not very optimistic.


I don't know how much (if any) you've read of the discussions regarding the game's availability in Europe, but Stardock has already said that -- with the exception of Russia -- they won't be selling Elemental in European brick-and-mortar stores (as it isn't worth the cost of doing so). Supposedly the boxed version will be available via online shops, but that will likely involve extra shipping charges (since it'll probably be shipping from here in the States).

To add to the confusion, however, there seems to be some uncertainty over whether "Europe" in this instance includes the UK. So whether that means Brits might still be able to purchased the boxed version or not is still a bit up in the air. Personally, I wouldn't bet on it, but I'd love to be wrong.


Just to be certain, however, I've put in a specific query on the Elemental forums regarding your question. The guys at Stardock are usually pretty good about replying in a prompt manner, so we'll probably know -- one way or the other -- within the next 24-48 hours.

[al Roumi]

Also (in the same post), in Europe the game will only be available (as of 24th August) by direct download. Elsewhere there will be box versions for sale in most retailers it seems.

They said in a developper diary that DD was the only way to get the game in europe...

[Ja'chyra]

Apparently my registration isn't valid anymore, am I supposed to do something special before I can play?

nvm: it's not release day yet, my bad.

[frogbeastegg]

Just to be certain, however, I've put in a specific query on the Elemental forums regarding your question. The guys at Stardock are usually pretty good about replying in a prompt manner, so we'll probably know -- one way or the other -- within the next 24-48 hours.

Thanks.

The answer's been posted: no.

They said in a developper diary that DD was the only way to get the game in europe...

I wonder why? AFAIK the boxed versions of GalCiv2 did well here. [suspicious]Unless they want to cut out the supply of cheaper copies which others in Europe then import? Since the pound went down our websites have reportedly been selling tonnes of games to Europeans taking advantage of the exchange rate.[/suspicious]



Looks like no Elemental for froggy. I know it's a big game with a long lifespan in a relatively niche genre, but so is Victoria 2 and Civ 5, and both are easy to find for £24.99 or less. I can't justify paying so much, especially not when it feels like the price is artificially inflated. Roll on the sales ...

[drone]

I wonder why? AFAIK the boxed versions of GalCiv2 did well here. [suspicious]Unless they want to cut out the supply of cheaper copies which others in Europe then import? Since the pound went down our websites have reportedly been selling tonnes of games to Europeans taking advantage of the exchange rate.[/suspicious]

Who was the European publisher for hardcopy Sins of a Solar Empire? Stardock is a little weird with publishing/distribution outside the US, with Demigod they were the US publisher and either Atari or Take2 did the international. I think GalCiv2 was done by Paradox internationally. Maybe they just don't want to get involved with international brick/mortar distrib.

[frogbeastegg]

Who was the European publisher for hardcopy Sins of a Solar Empire?

According to Amazon.uk it was Kalypso media. A quick check of most stardock games shows that Kalypso puiblished them, including the later editions of GalCiv2. Demigod is listed with Namco as the publisher.

I forgot that they used other parties to publish so recently; my version of Sins was the 'pre-order online and get download plus boxed copy in the post' version and it's got their stamp on the box. The pricing back then was a lot saner. Demigod wasn't my kind of thing at all so I pretty much ignored it. The GalCiv2 expansions I got with the download+disc set up, and again Stardock is styled as the publisher. So I thought they'd gone that way as standard after GalCiv2's original release.

Still, I wonder why there's no UK publisher? Games which are an awful lot more obscure and niche find publishers. Kalypso are still around and appear to be doing well; why not reprise the relationship?

[drone]

In the Euro distrib thread on the Elemental forums, there are the following responses:

As we have no business presence in Europe, we have to work through Euro publishers/distributors, and we wind up earning one or two euros per box (for reference, NA retail makes around $30 per box). It's just not worth doing when we can get the same return on 1/50th the DD sales.

See this journal for more info and discussion on the subject.

It is not profitable for us to provide boxes to European retail.

And in the journal linked above:

Europe…Well, not so much. There are currently no plans to have a retail presence in Europe. I don’t want to talk too much about this lest I get into trouble but let’s just say, our previous games have been available in retail in western Europe and as much as we like making a nickel per copy sold, we think we’ll pass this time. The retail situation in Europe is just insane and in the age of digital distribution, we’re just not willing to put up with it anymore. One world. One price. If there’s anything that would make the lives of Europeans easier in terms of getting the game via Impulse, let us know. I know people.

Sounds like they are just fed up with the retail hassle in Europe, doesn't look like they make much on the sales anyway. I wonder how much visibility the game will miss if it's not an impulse (pun intended) buy on the shelves in a High street shop. And clueless parents buying games for their kids will be a missed demographic.

[Martok]

Brad recently posted that the retail situation in Europe has gotten so ridiculous the last several years, that it's simply not worth it for Stardock to sell their games in brick-and-mortar stores over there anymore.

Apparently European distributors now demand such a huge chunk of the profits that on a $50.00 game (or whatever its equivalent in euros is -- I've no idea what the exchange rate is currently), Stardock literally sees less than 5% ($1.00-$2.00) of that. (To compare, they receive roughly 30% of the take from retail sales here in the U.S. & Canada.) Brad & Co. decided that was unacceptable and they weren't going to put up with it anymore, especially in light of their continuing success with digital download sales on Impulse.



Personally, I'm not sure I agree with their decision on this. I understand and respect the reasons behind it, but I still feel it may be a mistake.




EDIT: Heh. Ninja'ed by drone.


Oh, and in case anyone is wondering, "Frogboy" and "Draginol" are Brad Wardell's forum names.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

*raise from the grave*

Hello!

Well, I am looking at buying this one. I was a MoM player and although FFH2 (Civ IV mod) is doing a decent job, it does not quite cut it compared to MoM and potentially this Elemental war of Magic... Multiple reasons for that: no leader customization, no tactical battle, not enough global spells...
The other one I am looking at but could never get myself to play is Dominion 3.
Quick feedback will be appreciated.

Good luck, and have fun!

Louis,

[frogbeastegg]

Other companies manage to make it worthwhile. Bizarre.

$50 = £33 roughly. Fractionally cheaper than the RRP (£34.99 - £39.99) for most new PC games in today's inflated times but with the key difference that very, very few of those PC games ever sell for anything like their RRP. You have to be something massive like Starcraft 2 to avoid the instant mark down.

The download only version of Elemental costs the same as the download+boxed copy option. How does that make sense? Make the download only version cheaper, leave the box+download version as it is, and there we go.

At least the game will have been heavily patched if/when I do pick it up. If it's anything like GalCiv2 lots of features and tweaks will be added, as well as the usual fixes.

[drone]

Oh, and in case anyone is wondering, "Frogboy" and "Draginol" are Brad Wardell's forum names.

Draginol is also Brad? I did not know that. Granted I have only really lurked the Demigod forums.

$50 = £33 roughly. Fractionally cheaper than the RRP (£34.99 - £39.99) for most new PC games in today's inflated times but with the key difference that very, very few of those PC games ever sell for anything like their RRP. You have to be something massive like Starcraft 2 to avoid the instant mark down.

The "instant mark down" is a big part of it, I think. Here in the states, retail games have generally sold at the RRP for quite a while unless they really suck. DD may be affecting this now though, with the sales and discounts they offer.

[Martok]

@Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe: Welcome back! Long time no see.

Other companies manage to make it worthwhile. Bizarre.

I know. And like I said, I have my doubts about Stardock's decision, regardless of how justified they feel they might be (or even actually *are*, for that matter). I realize that as a PC-only game shop -- and still a relatively small one, at that -- they probably simply lack the necessary clout that larger publishers enjoy, but I still wonder about the wisdom of writing off almost an entire continent.

Ideally, I'd love to see Stardock expand to have its own, full-blown operations in Europe as well as NA so that they don't have to deal with third-party distributors in the first place. Of course, that would almost certainly require a significant investment/expenditure in both capital and time....and I'm guessing Brad would be (understandably) reluctant to take such a huge risk.

Still not happy about their decision, though. I understand it, but I don't have to like it.

$50 = £33 roughly. Fractionally cheaper than the RRP (£34.99 - £39.99) for most new PC games in today's inflated times but with the key difference that very, very few of those PC games ever sell for anything like their RRP. You have to be something massive like Starcraft 2 to avoid the instant mark down.

Interesting. Over here, AAA PC titles -- regardless of pedigree -- usually don't get marked down until they either get an expansion pack and/or it's been at least a year or two since it was released. (Games can also be marked down if they're truly awful, although that's somewhat less common.) Hopefully the expanding digital-download market will eventually change that, but for now the American computer gamer is stuck with relatively high prices at retail.

The download only version of Elemental costs the same as the download+boxed copy option. How does that make sense? Make the download only version cheaper, leave the box+download version as it is, and there we go.

As a matter of fact, it *doesn't* make sense. This is another case of where Stardock suffers from being a smaller publisher.

They're essentially bullied forced into charging the same price for both versions by the major chains (Gamestop, Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc.). If Stardock were to charge less for their DD-only version, the major chains would refuse to carry their games. Valve/Vivendi gets away with it on Steam because they're a lot bigger and have a lot more influence in the industry. I dearly wish matters were otherwise, but there it is.

At least the game will have been heavily patched if/when I do pick it up. If it's anything like GalCiv2 lots of features and tweaks will be added, as well as the usual fixes.

Almost certainly. GalCiv2, while a good game, was greatly improved over the first year it was out, and I've no doubt it will be the same with Elemental.

Draginol is also Brad? I did not know that. Granted I have only really lurked the Demigod forums.

Heh; don't feel too bad. I didn't realize that at first either, and I was hanging around the original GalCiv1 forums way back in the day. (Heck, at one point I was under the misconception that Brad and Cari Beagle ("CariElf" on the forums) were married!)

The "instant mark down" is a big part of it, I think. Here in the states, retail games have generally sold at the RRP for quite a while unless they really suck. DD may be affecting this now though, with the sales and discounts they offer.

I still think it's going to be a few more years before the digital download market really starts having a major impact on retail prices/sales. I *do* believe it'll happen, though.

[Beskar]

The "instant mark down" is a big part of it, I think. Here in the states, retail games have generally sold at the RRP for quite a while unless they really suck. DD may be affecting this now though, with the sales and discounts they offer.

I ordered Starcraft 2 months in advance on Amazon, so I only got it for £21. A big saving over its later price tag of £37 or whatever it was.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

$50 = £33 roughly. Fractionally cheaper than the RRP (£34.99 - £39.99) for most new PC games in today's inflated times but with the key difference that very, very few of those PC games ever sell for anything like their RRP. You have to be something massive like Starcraft 2 to avoid the instant mark down.

The download only version of Elemental costs the same as the download+boxed copy option. How does that make sense? Make the download only version cheaper, leave the box+download version as it is, and there we go.

I see it at 39.29€ on Impulse, which is really ok I think - although I know little about PC game pricing, I haven't bought a PC game in ages! I guess you're hurt by the exchange rate... Join the Eurozone!

Regarding price and distribution channel... I guess distribution chanel (in this case US retail) makes it very clear for Stardock that the price they have got to be the same or cheapest than digital download. Otherwise, bye bye retail! I am not 100% sure that Stardock can lower DD price without facing massive retribution from its retailer.

Louis,

[pevergreen]

I ordered Starcraft 2 months in advance on Amazon, so I only got it for £21. A big saving over its later price tag of £37 or whatever it was.

RRP for any new PC game: 89.16 USD or 57.41 GBP

Console game is 10 AUD more sometimes. (extra 5 pounds or 9 USD)

You could get starcraft 2 if you were lucky (like 200 copies australia wide) at 39.63 GBP/ 61.55USD (69AUD)

When they sold out, lucky to get it at $89 AUD. I bought it from blizzard's online store at $89AUD...

Complain about PC pricing when you pay as much as us.

[Ja'chyra]

I refuse to buy Starcraft 2 as I'm not paying £40 for a pc game, I wouldn't pay more than £30.

[Beskar]

I refuse to buy Starcraft 2 as I'm not paying £40 for a pc game, I wouldn't pay more than £30.

Since it only costs £35 from Amazon, where is your £40 price tag from? It hasn't hit £40 yet.

[frogbeastegg]

They're essentially bullied forced into charging the same price for both versions by the major chains (Gamestop, Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc.).

Which makes sense for America, and not for the rest of the world. There's nothing to stop then doing what all of the other download services do, and set individual prices for different territories. In this case for once (once!) we non-Americans might end up with the better end of the deal instead of the usual price hike.

Complain about PC pricing when you pay as much as us.

That's the thing - if all PC games were this price there wouldn't be a problem at all. Because they're not it brings relative value into play for anyone who doesn't have a big games budget. What does Elemental offer that makes it worth so much extra compared to, say, Civ 5? The answer is nothing much.

It's a particularly bad time for Stardock to ask people to make this judgement. There's a lot of new strategy games out this summer, including two giant names and one popular niche title. These are the kind of games that people play for a long time after purchase; they're not 10 hour and done forever jobs where an owner would be considering a new title relatively soon after purchase.

Elemental is going to miss out on a lot of potential sales. For a game that's not destined to be a multi-million best seller that's not a good place to be headed.




Anywho, enough about pricing. There's more exciting things to talk about - the game's out early.

The bricks and mortar shops broke street date so the download version is going up early too. There doesn't seem to be an ETA for the download becoming available, just a note that it will be done as soon as possible. If you've pre-ordered I'd open Impulse up and see if it finds anything.

[Ja'chyra]

Since it only costs £35 from Amazon, where is your £40 price tag from? It hasn't hit £40 yet.

The shop