Conseil du Royaume

**ULC** · 08-07-2009, 09:00

Gaetan and rises, a look of incredulity upon his face.

"All due respect Gaspard - but favor does not come with being cheeky to your sovereign unless he asks you to jest before him. What you propose, is that the Royaume send ships to aid Rennes, but do you not see the logistical feet your asking?"

"No settlement in possession of the Royaume could construct the ships needed, not for quite sometime, and the only nearby settlement that can do so with expediency is Bruges or Provence, and one of those is controlled by the Germans."

"Then, we ust contend with the English where they are most comfortable, upon the sea, and if you concur with their greed, then you would realize they would capitalize upon such easy prey for them."

Gaetan shakes his head and seats himself, having said his part.

**_Tristan_** · 08-07-2009, 09:16

Sieur de Rethel, I thank you...

I did not mean to linger upon the lacks of Sieur de Neufville's reasoning but seeing how stubborn he is in supporting such a course of action, I thank you for sparing me the statement of the obvious.

Anyway, as it seems you have chosen to defy the will of your King, you are forcing my hand and that of the soon appointed Seneschal. Your Edict has not gain supporters yet but should it gain enough to be proposed before the Conseil in the voting session, I cannot allow for this opportunity to be closed to our Seneschal simply because, you, Sieur de Neufville, consider it inappropriate.

So, I will propose the following legislation :

Edict 1.10 : The Seneschal will strive to buy Angers from the English during his term and at the earliest opportunity. The Princess Constance may be sent to parlay with the English but no later than three seasons (OOC 3 turns) when she will make her way to Rome. If no accord has been reached then, a diplomat will be recruited for that purpose. This edict will take precedence over Edicts 1.7 and 1.8. Once Angers is bought, the diplomat will either be sent south or north according to Edicts 1.7 or 1.8.

**OverKnight** · 08-07-2009, 12:56

Hugues speaks.

I second Edict 1.10. I am glad that the Edict leaves a bit of wriggle room in case the English demand too high of a price.

It galls me a bit to pay for land which rightfully belongs to the Kingdom. However if succesful we will reunite Bretagne with the rest of the realm and split the English holdings while avoiding a war we are not ready for. A bitter truth, but there it is.

**Vladimir** · 08-07-2009, 13:00

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Mon Rei,

The wording of edict 1.8 is deliberate. It does not prevent the diplomat from accomplishing other duties. The alliance with and existence of the Kingdom of the Scots is vital to our interests. Even though a faction will always have a capital, it will not always be the same city. Our diplomat must remain cognizant of the location and status of their capital which is why he should remain there à perpetuité [thanks for that phrase

].

I believe in the utility of assigning diplomats by region, but the importance of this relationship cannot be understated.

**econ21** · 08-07-2009, 14:07

I second Edict 1.10. The isolation of Bretagne is insufferable, but if it may be ended by peaceful means rather than war, then we must try.

**_Tristan_** · 08-07-2009, 16:48

Sieur de Linars,

While I understand your concern that we must maintain a degree of cooperation with the Ecossais, I do not want to tie our diplomats' hands, in Scotland or elsewhere. Maybe you could rephrase your edict with a provision like this one :

Addendum to Edict 1.8 : The diplomat will remain at the most one season's march away from the Scottish capital at all times.

This would enable him to conduct other, and more covert, duties or even enable him to conduct business with my cousin's cronies to the South.

What do you think, Sieur de Linars ? Is it acceptable to you ?

**_Tristan_** · 08-07-2009, 17:10

Spotting Hermant Mauvoisin in the assembly, Philippe calls after him.

Mauvoisin,

A few days ago, you came to me with an offer of service. Does it still stands ? For if it does and my have employment for you and your company of chevaliers.

While our friends from Lorraine march to reclaim Metz, I have decided to set out and march on Bruges if you would follow me there.

I'll give my regards to the Comte de Flandres myself... at the point of my sword.

**Vladimir** · 08-07-2009, 17:32

Mon Roi [had to review the "Frenchified" thread],

A wise and noble suggestion indeed. I hereby propose a modification to edict 1.8 as follows:

Edict 1.8.1: The Kingdom of France shall immediately secure an alliance with the Kingdom of Scotland. A diplomat shall be hired immediately to secure this alliance. The diplomat will remain, at most, one season's ride away from the Scottish capital.

**econ21** · 08-07-2009, 17:36

Hermant rises at the King's mention of his name:

My King, the Company had planned to support the march on Metz, believing that quest was your priority. But following you in person to Bruges would be a greater glory. I will relay your will to my brother knights.

He bows and hurries from the Council hall.

**Ramses II CP** · 08-08-2009, 03:26

Prince Louis sneers at Gaspard de Neufville before announcing,

I second Edict 1.10.

I would further propose, not as an edict but as a matter of common sense, that all those lacking the grace the rudest peasant would possess to bow to the expressed wishes of their King be excused from this chamber. More specifically, you, Sir Gaspard de Neufville. It was not enough that you revealed your foolishness by standing above your station for Seneschal, but now you greedily seek to block your King and his chosen taskmaster from their course.

It is precisely because of base blooded treacherous curs of your ilk that our great land has fallen so far. You've been instructed to withdraw your edict. It is an act of hideous disloyalty to stand here, before God and King, and refuse their authority.

To whom is this man sworn? Is there a Duke who will answer for his actions?

By the end of his outburst Louis' face has darkened and spittle flies from his lips as the words pour forth. He looks expectantly at the Dukes, now disregarding Gaspard de Neufville entirely.

**OverKnight** · 08-08-2009, 04:31

Hugues raises an eyebrow at the Prince's display.

Chevalier de Neufville is sworn to the Duc de Bourgogne my Dread Dauphin.

While I think that Gaspard's edict is rubbish and that he could benefit from a longer look at our Charter, he has the right to propose one Edict in the Conseil. If we cannot do that here free from intimidation, there seems little point in the proceedings.

If the Edict is truly repugnant to his Majesty, he may use his veto. Though a lack of seconds will most likely doom it first.

Edit: Reeves has updated the list of Legislation again.

**Cecil XIX** · 08-08-2009, 08:28

Duc Raymon de Provence stands.

Sir Gaspard de Neufville is my man, my Dauphin. Though I do not support his edict, he has my full support in proposing it. If this body cannot even entertain thoughts that are not favored by his majesty, then may I ask what purpose it is to serve?

Although I am skeptical that the Normans will and over the Duchy of Anjou for a fair price, if they are willing to accept a price such that we may recoup the losses before my prospective term expires than I fully support the endeavour. Such would be the conditions I would have the Princess negotiate with, unless his majesty would prefer a different criteria.

**AussieGiant** · 08-08-2009, 09:31

After seeing two Dukes rise and make their statements, Alain is absentmindedly stroking Medoc's head as he casts his gaze towards the Dauphin and his response.

**Ramses II CP** · 08-08-2009, 14:25

The Prince's face reddens even more on hearing the word 'intimidation,' but a glance at his father visibly halts the progression of his anger. Fists clenched he speaks in a low but controlled voice to the Dukes,

Gentlemen we shall each be responsible for the behavior of our vassals in this chamber. It is not necessary to propose only such legislation as the King prefers, but it is necessary not to directly challenge his will. Is this distinction clear?

Gaspard de Neufville has twice now stood above his station. First in suggesting his candidacy for Seneschal, and second in suggesting his absurd edict. Not only this, he withdrew a prior edict he had proposed, one which was at least moderately proper, and instead proposed this one in haste with no other purpose than to subvert the King's will. It is not acceptable.

I ask, as one Duke to another, that you, Duke Raymond, have a word with this man on proper behavior and decorum in this chamber, and the respect due to a King, from whose authority descends our own.

If you will not have a word with him I will.

Louis regards all three Dukes expectantly.

**AussieGiant** · 08-08-2009, 14:38

In contrast to the controlled anger from the Dauphin, the young Duke continues to pat his enormous poodle. Rather sardonically and with a flippant tone he says to Raymond from his seat.

"Seems fair enough to me Duc Raymond.

We can not be having zis type of be'aviour in ze Council.

We are not English for evens sake."

**OverKnight** · 08-08-2009, 15:39

Hugues looks a bit quizical and speaks to the Dauphin.

But Highness, de Neufville is not your vassal. He is not even the vassal of your vassal. However, your devotion to your Majestic Father and his prerogatives is very filial of you.

Long live the King.

**Cecil XIX** · 08-08-2009, 21:16

I would be happy to instruct my vassal on proper decorum, but as far as I can tell he needs no lesson from me. He as already apologized profusely for his early mistake of offering himself for Seneschal, and I've assumed the matter closed.

In regards to Edict 1.9, I see no insult to his majesty, intentional or otherwise, in either the wording nor the proposal. I should hope that Chevalier Gaspard would show his own Duc the respect he has shown the King in this regard.

**Ramses II CP** · 08-09-2009, 05:17

The Prince has taken hold of himself, but still his words are terse and forced,

Indeed, long live the King.

What troubles me about this proposal, as I believed I had already made clear, is that it is a direct challenge to the announced intent of our King. It is as though some fool proposed an edict declaring war on England despite the King's having signed a truce. This body does not exist to contravene or subvert the will of it's King, but to aid and abet that will.

I am pleased that this bit of trash has not been seconded, but I remain disturbed that any noble in service to my father would have the termerity to propose it in the first place. There may come a day when you give your vassal an order in battle, reliant on the natural authority that descends to you from your King and God, and find that he has some other fool idea and wants to piss about and argue with you rather than follow. So, I say once more, if you will not have a word with him on the proper way to respect the authority of his King I will do so in my own way.

In further business I have an amendment to propose:

Amendment 1.2 The nation of France does not acknowledge the authority or existence of heathen nations. As such no diplomatic agreements of any kind are permitted with Muslim factions, and no official declaration of war is necessary before attacking a Muslim faction's armies, fleets, or cities.

This is necessary to ensure that our great nation does not become entangled with the infidels through trade or treaty.

**GeneralHankerchief** · 08-09-2009, 05:25

Raynaud de Xaintrailles:

*Raynaud rises immediately after the proposed Amendment is brought forth.*

Helping and aiding the heretic is the quickest way to damnation yourself and is entirely improper of a true Christian nation like ourselves. I second this noble Amendment 1.2.

**OverKnight** · 08-09-2009, 08:10

Reeves hands a slip of parchment to Hugues and whispers something to him.

Really? Hmm.

Hugues speaks to the Conseil.

I am afraid amendment 1.2 would diminish the power of the King. As it stands now, only the King can unilaterally decide to declare war or not outside of a Conseil session as clearly spelled out in the Charter:

Originally Posted by The Charter

(6) Can declare war on any faction at any time, for any reason.

This amendment would allow any noble the ability to start a war with any Muslim faction if they came within arms reach. Anyone could grab a cog, land their personal retinue in Africa or Granada and start their own war right away.

Surely we trust the wisdom of the King more than the average noble when it comes to the timing and implementation of a declaration of war?

I am afraid I cannot support such a weakening of the King's power.

Edit: Also, Reeves has updated the list of Legislation again.

**KnightnDay** · 08-09-2009, 14:17

Thomas rises and bows to the price before speaking to the conseil.

"Most respectfully, Highness, I am compelled to agree with the Duc. Not only is the power of the king diminished by such an amendment, it still further deprives him the right to hear from this conseil the opinions regarding such acts. Insofar as he has willed that we meet together to advise in matters of the state and not presume his intentions, it would be inappropriate to favor such legislation as has been proposed. To accord me or indeed any man here, the authority to make war with the Sultan of the Moors, the Turks, and the Egyptian Pharaoh without consent of those empowered to govern is a dangerous notion that weakens us all."

**Ramses II CP** · 08-09-2009, 15:02

The Prince nods thoughtfully in regard to these points before turning to the King,

Mon Pere I would hear your opinion of the matter. If you wish it I will withdraw or alter the amendment, but I do believe it to be of considerable importance that we refrain from making treaties with the heathens. Can we all agree that this latter should be the case, even if we wish to protect the King's power to declare war?

**Cecil XIX** · 08-09-2009, 18:53

Indeed, the logic behind Amendment 1.2 is sound.

However, my Prince, I must protest your speaking to my vassal directly in such a way. He is not under your authority, and when any complaints travel through the fuedal tree they should go through all layers.

**AussieGiant** · 08-09-2009, 19:18

Both eyebrows are raised rather quickly at the recent discussions. The Duc seems torn between speaking and holding his tongue. This plays quite expressively across his face and draws the attention of his poodle Medoc.

The great hound tilts its head inquisitively as it tries to determine just what is going on in his masters brain. Finally the boyish Duke stands:

"If ze proposed amendment from ze Dauphin limited its scope to everything but war, zen I believe zis would solve ze conundrum."

Medoc barks an agreement.

**Vladimir** · 08-10-2009, 01:41

*Gontran's head pokes up*

Surely we cannot trade with these Muslim heathens. Their savage and barbarous actions set our ancestors back hundreds of years. I cannot, in good conscious, trade a single florin with those who pillaged the bulb of the fleur de lys.

Any act of aggression on their behalf should count as an act of war. I believe the amendment should be modified to reflect this.

**Andres** · 08-10-2009, 08:28

Thierry raises.

I don't see a problem with the Amendment.

Originally Posted by Amendment proposed by the Prince

The nation of France does not acknowledge the authority or existence of heathen nations. As such no diplomatic agreements of any kind are permitted with Muslim factions, and no official declaration of war is necessary before attacking a Muslim faction's armies, fleets, or cities.

The Amendment doesn't contradict with the rule that the King can declare war on any faction at any time for any reason. The King keeps his powers and is in no way limited by the Amendment, in my opinion.

**_Tristan_** · 08-10-2009, 09:33

My son, you know me for a man of faith, a true believer in the teachings of our Mere l'Eglise.

Thus, I cannot tolerate to think that our Royaume will stoop to enter into treaty, be it for trade, with any Muslim nation. But sometimes things need to be written in law to prevent them from being forgotten.

So I will second Edict 1.2 if my son would only rewrite or strike out the last part of his proposal.

I do not like the idea of any minor noble entangling us in war with any Muslim nation on a whim. It could have dire consequences for the realm. However, I'll be amenable to any demand from Our nobility should it require to launch an attack on the mécréants. I'm open to sensible suggestions on that matter.

Speaking of war, it seems I have not made myself clear enough as regards the English presence on French soil. It boils my blood just thinking of the depredations committed against our countrymen, the riches of France taken across la Manche to Albion. But I have entered into an agreement with my cousin William and I will not see my word broken by power- and land-hungry nobles.

Word has it that some among your numbers are thinking of doing just that, making look either a fool for not being able to rein in my vassaux or a oath-breaker for saying one thing and doing another.

And this I will not tolerate !!

To that purpose, I will propose the following legislation :

Edict 1.11 : No armies under French command (OOC : under the command of an ingame avatar) shall cross the borders into Norman (English) lands for the duration of the King's truce, which is to be ended only by direct declaration from the King. The Seneschal shall be required to immediately disband the armies of any general who violates this Edict.

I'll be waiting to see who are the supporters of this Edict.

As to the matter of the Sieur de Neufville's Edict, I will concede the point that this Conseil has been created so that the Nobles of France could voice their concerns and make proposals as to how our Royaume should be led.

But remember, all of you, that I rule from divine mandate and that my word is law. Hence, when I speak my will, I will not see it contradicted directly though I could forgive if such a challenge came from a Duke and was more carefully worded than Sieur de Neufville's edict.

All the proposed legislation I've seen so far is sensible and will help France in those difficult times. The Edicts and Amendments proposed are strong but easy-to-follow guidelines for our Seneschal. This gives my confidence in the continuance and future of this legislative body.

Sieur de Neufville, know that I hold no grudge against you. You have spoken your mind, put your head into the lion's mouth, so to speak. That requires "courage" even if it borders of follishness. I hope you will show that same kind of bravery on the battlefield when it will be time to cast the English back overseas.

Sieur Mauvoisin, I hope your consultation with your peers will lead to you marching with me. I expect to test your valour soon and see if my trust in the Order de la Fleur de Lys was well placed.

**OverKnight** · 08-10-2009, 09:49

Hugues speaks.

I will second Edict 1.11.

Also, just to clarify your Majesty, you were referring to the Dauphin revising Amendment 1.2, not Edict 1.2, correct? Both were proposed by the Prince. The scribes wish to know, but are too scared to ask.

Edit: Speaking of the scribes, the list of Legislation has been updated.

**Andres** · 08-10-2009, 09:53

My King, could I ask you to add a paragraph to your proposed Edict, reading as such:

For the purpose of this Edict, an individual nobleman, escorted only by his bodyguards, is not considered to be an army.

Some may argue, for pure political gain of course, that a single chevalier and his trusted guards is "an army". I'm sure this isn't your intention, mon Roi, but not everybody is as noble as you.

I think it's best to prevent all misunderstandings. We don't want an Edict that could be interpreted as an interdiction for the noblemen living in Bretagne to come to Paris to attend the meetings of the Conseil.

**ULC** · 08-10-2009, 10:02

Originally Posted by Andres

My King, could I ask you to add a paragraph to your proposed Edict, reading as such:

For the purpose of this Edict, an individual nobleman, escorted only by his bodyguards, is not considered to be an army.

Some may argue, for pure political gain of course, that a single chevalier and his trusted guards is "an army". I'm sure this isn't your intention, mon Roi, but not everybody is as noble as you.

I think it's best to prevent all misunderstandings. We don't want an Edict that could be interpreted as an interdiction for the noblemen living in Bretagne to come to Paris to attend the meetings of the Conseil.

"Although I take no issue with the idea of what you are proposing Thierry de Rochefort, I would take issue with the fact that it allows a single nobleman, escorted by his bodyguards, to be followed by a series of some such bodyguards, who then assemble upon the siege of a Castle or City, and proceed to declare war and capture the settlement or die trying."

"What you propose is a loophole that can be exploited, and that is, both in spirit and in will, against the wishes of our King."

Thread: Conseil du Royaume

Thread Tools

Display

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Re: Conseil du Royaume

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions