EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

[vartan]

I played many time with this EDU and I found some thing that seems me wrong.
First is the naked fanatics invulnerability by missiles (they died only after the 3rd or 4th volley of arrows, or javelins).
Second is the difference between lusitani and romans: take a look, that lusitani seems to be an overpowered romani (falcata is too better than gladius and solifera are too better than pilum).
Third the excessive weakening of hastati make them absolutely unuseful as heavy infantry (lower armour, lower morale, unuseful increase of size from 40 to 50, plus they still carry the same malus in woods as others heavy inf).

Anyway some others things are better than EDU1.2, like cav and eastern infantry.
Please, take care about my 3 suggestions ;-)

I recommend gg2 respond to these suggestions as well. They're really great concerns, actually. Here's my take, and I'm no expert...

• For the naked units...if the units in question have 2HP, then they die late simply due to their extra hitpoint. This is to be expected, and very, very normal.
• Regarding the Luso vs Romani, if the weapons in question were better, then they were better. Or had different purposes. I'm not sure. But if that is the case, then that is why they are represented as better in the EDU's values. No more, no less (i.e., no artificial idea of making one faction better for its own sake).
• And as for light infantry such as the Hastati, they should cost as much as they are powerful, and so the EDU was adapted to make cost and performance relatively parallel. Cheaper unit? Probably not as good as a more costly unit, such as a heavier Principes.

[Lazy O]

But but, lusotana do not have a 100 men excellent morale monster for a dirt cheap price ;P

[Kival]

And almost all of their units lack the proper amount of armour. They die very quickly through missile fire.

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

Lusitani do not have the armor to withstand Pila, legions do, and I dont think Hastati are meant to be Heavy infantry at the cost of 1100 or 1200 -.-

Sorry, but each Lusitani heavy infantry wear the same armour as legionary, they died under the missiles due to their lower shield value (3 instead of 4).
And Hastati ARE heavy infantry. If they aren't why they take the same field malus as others heavy infantry.
Also the historical deployment of hastati is in only one way: heavy infantry. Then they can not stand against others infantry cause they are really weak in EDU 2.0.

About Lusitani light infantry; they are almost useful as that role because of their great field bonus (especially in woods) and fast moving.
How can you say again that hastati should work as light infantry? They are unuseful.

So make hastati less cheap, but please, make them quite useful.

[vartan]

About Lusitani light infantry; they are almost useful as that role because of their great field bonus (especially in woods) and fast moving.

What woods? I don't see people playing in the forest online.

GG2 really has to respond as he's in best position to do so.

[gamegeek2]

The Lusitani light infantry die to missile fire, as has been mentioned already. Shoot them with some Cretans. And as vartan mentioned, nobody plays in the woods online.

Look, the Lusotanaan got better than before because previously they were one of the worst factions. Now they're better, as they got "barbarian" bonuses (which they didn't have before - I don't understand that, are western Iberians less "barbarous" than Gauls?).

I have had the opposite complaint about Hastati - that they died too slowly. So I cut their morale to 11. They're still 11 attack/0.15 leth/20 defense, with a good shield and armour piercing javelins, and have 100 men. They also get paired with Principes and Triarii, very cost-effective heavy infantry as well. What's the problem?

You do remember that pre-Marians were so overpowered before this EDU that they had to have a monetary penalty imposed upon them, right?

Soliferra are only a bit better than pila and are more expensive. Besides, a soliferrum is called a "soli-ferrum" meaning "only iron" - you can see why that would be both more expensive and more damaging than a pilum. Also many Lusitanian units have boosts to their javelin skill, making them more expensive but better with javelins.

[Lazy O]

I still do not see the viability of Lusotann..... Even with your extremely annoying skirmisher spam gg2, I just dont think its competetive. Morale breakers are the death of these guys, along with any pointed object and marginally competetive cavalry. (That saba battle does not count :D)

[gamegeek2]

Lazy, I beat an army with 8 archers, designed to crush my strategy...

[antisocialmunky]

The Lusitani light infantry die to missile fire, as has been mentioned already. Shoot them with some Cretans. And as vartan mentioned, nobody plays in the woods online.

Look, the Lusotanaan got better than before because previously they were one of the worst factions. Now they're better, as they got "barbarian" bonuses (which they didn't have before - I don't understand that, are western Iberians less "barbarous" than Gauls?).

I have had the opposite complaint about Hastati - that they died too slowly. So I cut their morale to 11. They're still 11 attack/0.15 leth/20 defense, with a good shield and armour piercing javelins, and have 100 men. They also get paired with Principes and Triarii, very cost-effective heavy infantry as well. What's the problem?

You do remember that pre-Marians were so overpowered before this EDU that they had to have a monetary penalty imposed upon them, right?

Soliferra are only a bit better than pila and are more expensive. Besides, a soliferrum is called a "soli-ferrum" meaning "only iron" - you can see why that would be both more expensive and more damaging than a pilum. Also many Lusitanian units have boosts to their javelin skill, making them more expensive but better with javelins.

Roman units were too cheap pre-marian, not too powerful. :p

Also, I'd like to ask for sized 100 Hoplitae Haploi and Ekdromoi. Those units have no use and are too similar to other units. It would be nice also if Greece gets some 'padd' units to deal with catas.

[Lazy O]

You still got done by the gauls didnt you?? :D The one which was not designed to crush you actually worked :D

[vartan]

I can't believe I missed this. Lower pre-Marian Roman infantry prices are for SP use. They weren't modified for MP. Duh! GG2 add this to your notes: Increase prices and stats of pre-Marians.

[gamegeek2]

Whoops, that's a big one to miss...

[The Celtic Viking]

I can't believe I missed this. Lower pre-Marian Roman infantry prices are for SP use. They weren't modified for MP. Duh! GG2 add this to your notes: Increase prices and stats of pre-Marians.

It seems my whining has no affect on you. -.-

[vartan]

It seems my whining has no affect on you. -.-

Bahahaha. "STOP WHINING" - Arnold Sch...something.

Be more specific ;)

[The Celtic Viking]

I've kind of, uh... pointed this out to you and others here and on hamachi a few times. It's even in the thread for feedback that GG2 created for this edu. It's like you haven't even listened to me since that night in Las Vegas.

[gamegeek2]

Well then, we ought to have that changed for later.

[vartan]

I've kind of, uh... pointed this out to you and others here and on hamachi a few times. It's even in the thread for feedback that GG2 created for this edu. It's like you haven't even listened to me since that night in Las Vegas.

You mean this very thread? lol...by 'pointed this out' do you mean the issue with under-powered pre-Marians? You probably did point that out. But I forget what I had for lunch yesterday, so don't be surprised at me. I listen. What happens or doesn't happen in my brain after I listen, I don't know.

[The Celtic Viking]

You mean this very thread? lol...by 'pointed this out' do you mean the issue with under-powered pre-Marians? You probably did point that out. But I forget what I had for lunch yesterday, so don't be surprised at me. I listen. What happens or doesn't happen in my brain after I listen, I don't know.

Now you're just trying to get under my skin. No worries, comrade. You'll get to do that later.

Well then, we ought to have that changed for later.

Glad to hear it.

[Lazy O]

[22:03:15]
i want
[22:03:19]
price reconsideration
[22:03:33]
on baktrian lights, and indian spearmen,saka spearmen
[22:03:48]
being seemingly useless units
[22:04:03]
ima just post this convo

[vartan]

What PsychO LazyO is trying to say is that there are various light units (his bias lies in those regional to his faction of choice) that seem to be useless. What he fails to understand is that those very same light units turn out to be crucial in LMGs (Low Money Games for the clueless). In a LMG, mass may prove more crucial than in a HMG, and so you're bound to see more lower quality units. Don't expect to see many of these lights online unless they're missile or minor bulk support.

[Lazy O]

What PsychO is REALLY trying to say is that above mentioned units are useless crap and you can get other things for the same things and I would like to see their stats are restructured or they be made cheaper.

[vartan]

What PsychO is REALLY trying to say is that above mentioned units are useless crap and you can get other things for the same things and I would like to see their stats are restructured or they be made cheaper.

Valid concern. Why didn't you just do that instead of paste an unreadable block of text?

[antisocialmunky]

Um, 240 spear spam is an anti-cav thing. They are a valid counter to cata due to their massive sizes. They are fine, I think. However, it would be nice if every unit had a purpose. I would want to modify units so everyone is useful. EB team spent a lot of time on the units and I rather see everything be somewhat feasible to field with the right army. The main candidates in my eyes are some of the smaller Gallic sword units, some of the Luso skirms, and some of the Greek Levy units (And maybe Rhodians). Mainly they are units that have several more expensive alternatives that are straight better or make the unit redundant.

[vartan]

That's why we had 2.0 to begin with, to make as many units useful as possible, hence the lethality alterations.

[Lazy O]

Well the aforementioned units do not seem useful to me. In a Saka army, where you are guaranteed cavalry supremacy, why get 100 man units which are more expensive AND die like flies when you can get exceelent line holders which are cheaper? Thats why I am asking to reprice them according to their Shitty abilities so I have a levy unit worth bragging about :D

[vartan]

I knew I should have done a placeholder #2 post here. Anyway, ongoing proposal list for EDU 2.1 changes is linked below. I have compiled a list of suggestions from various sources. Will update it as necessary. Making this public so that people can refer to certain proposals and argue for or against them (or any variation of them).

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...iYjZl&hl=en_US

[Kival]

As far as I remember I never wrote such a proposal about phalangites. I assume you mixed me up here with someone else.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

As far as I remember I never wrote such a proposal about phalangites. I assume you mixed me up here with someone else.

You did it in your sleep.

Nah that was me.

[-Stormrage-]

Since were complaining here, i better pitch in :

Slingers dont do **** Against heavy armored units. I have just played a battle , where i had 4 maybe 5 slingers on the right (No- shield) side of My enemies front line. His Front line of Gallic soldiers ran forward to attack my line , and they were in bulk so i started pelting their backs with my slings. They pelted and pelted until they could pelt no more . and i can safely say Slingers dont do **** against the type of unit it was made to counter Armor, there is a reason why they are AP ( Anti - Armour ) . And They dont kill armored units , im talking from the sides and back. In the beggining of the battle 4 of my slings were pelting one unit of gallic something from the side and after a couple of volleys not one died. I requesst that Slingers attack be increased so atleast some of them die on the first volley when 4 slings are targeting one unit !!!!!!! Seriously Slings in EB have 1 or maybe 2 attack . I repeat my motto Slings Dont do **** (yet) please fix this . watch this pay close attention to the slingers http://www.mediafire.com/?qcaix5932qema95

[Kival]

Slingers are deadly against armoured units, not against units with high shield values. And you need to give them one experience point, else they do not do much. Slingers are really good against enemy heavy cavalry, i don't see a problem here.