EB Online EDU v2.0 - RELEASE!

[vartan]

Someone's been picking up the wrong books lately, lol. Nice use of asterisks, though, highly commendable.

[-Stormrage-]

Hey, ever thought of increasing javelin damage ( maybe to 16) cuz skirmishers arent doing much damage agasint pantadormoi phalanx, i just came back from watching a rpelay, skirmisher unit was attacking a phalanx from the sides and it was getting 1 -2 kills each volley, thats not worht investing in, and javelins should kill more especially since they are being thrown into a compact area of units, its not like they were in loose formation they were close togethr, and 1-2 kills a volley is pathetic. http://download1346.mediafire.com/ia...eyvs.Lazyo.rpy

EDIT: some volleys even resulted in 0 kills

[The Celtic Viking]

The sphendonetai cost exactly the same as shuban-i fradakhshana do and their stats are exactly the same, except that the sphendos have -1 ranged attack. I do remember that this was a change you made for 2.0, so am I right in assuming that you forgot to lower their cost accordingly, or was this intentional?

Edit: also, the documentation for 2.0 says that all archers have a minimum of 25 arrows, but toxotai only have 15.

[Kival]

I somewhat completey disagree to stormrage. I can understand to question some specific mercenary units but it's nonsense to e.g. strip the romans from allied units. They did have gallic and other mercenary units and used them. It's the advantage of the KH that they have a diverse roster of units from all over the mediterranean I would rather give them more of this units as factional (or raise their mercenary limit similar to quart-hadast) than force them not to use any of them.

Thracian Skirmishers were well know for their fame and were used by a lot of armies in the surrounding areas. Why should we neglect them to pontos, getai etc.? Saka had weak infantry in their homeland but they expanded to India, you forgot? I want to have the possibility to use a historical influenced army not to artificially be forced to use only some core factional units and be done with it then. I strongly disagree to the proposal, the factions are diverse, their is no need to change something here. The proposal would just reduce the possibilies of diverse armies for one faction which is something I really appreciate the way it is.

PS: And some factions would be screwed up in some match ups more than they are now if they had no chance to use their mercenaries.

[vartan]

Storm your idea would be completely irrelevant if I did away with the factional vs merc concept as it applies to MP. Sure, it has its roots in the SP factional vs regional MICs, but there's nothing to stop us playing by saying "you can use anybody on your MP roster". The whole point of the factional/merc system for MP is so that there is more VARIATION. If we did away with mercs, we'd be doing away with possibilities.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Giving Baktria Subeshi archers would be entirely illogical, unless at some point Baktria controlled the Tarim basin.

This is the recruitment area of Subeshi archers. http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...y&category=any

Areas like Dayaun were definitely within either the borders of Baktria or at least their sphere of influence. The EB team allowed Subeshi's to be recruited there and I would tend to believe that there is some reason for that. That being said, I am no expert on the matter.

[vartan]

Areas like Dayaun were definitely within either the borders of Baktria or at least their sphere of influence. The EB team allowed Subeshi's to be recruited there and I would tend to believe that there is some reason for that. That being said, I am no expert on the matter.

Exactly. This is why I had Alans as factional for Saka, even if they're not of the same 'tribe' or 'nation'. But pretty soon they'll be regionals for both Sauro and Saka, the two who would probably be recruiting them from their rosters, if I'm not mistaken.

[Lazy O]

Carthaginian Libyan Heavy Spearmen need more stamina. They are not even good stamina despite supposedly being a thorakitai ish assault unit.

EDU name is Mesoorianim Leebim

[-Stormrage-]

are subeshi archers even good ?

and skirmishers missile attack should be increased significantly, i mean skirmishers have the same missile damage as arrows. correct me if im wrong but i thought javelins were pretty dangerous mass murderers. i beleive skirmisher missile attack should be buffed to maybe 10 missile damage. what do you guys think?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Carthaginian Libyan Heavy Spearmen need more stamina. They are not even good stamina despite supposedly being a thorakitai ish assault unit.

EDU name is Mesoorianim Leebim

Thorakitai don't have good stamina either. Libyan Heavy Spears are already only slightly worse than Thorakitai though costing significantly less. Giving them good stamina would not be good imo.

And as far as Subeshi's go, they have slightly less range than Saka foot archers but have 1 point more armor and slightly better discipline. They both cost the same, around 900, which is slightly more expensive than most unarmored archers but their range allows you to win most duels with similar type units.

[Lazy O]

Thorkies also getting it

[vartan]

Kind of like EB, huh, where every damned unit has a hardy hardy? lol, what a pickle ^_^

Hardy's a tricky one. Guess it means you can use your unit more carelessly, not being forced to preserve it until the right moment to strike/engage.

[Lazy O]

Here is another one:

Give Macedon a discount on phalangites so they can get the better more armoured phalangites (im talking reformed ones) at a price similiar to pezhetaroi so Makedonia are buffed since they do not have the cataphracts other successor factions do.

[-Stormrage-]

Increase Javelin Damage to atleast 10. What say you!

[Lazy O]

That would make spear armed skirmisher overpowered with their current price, with a price hike, they would not be as cost effective for the role of filler units.

[antisocialmunky]

The higher morale ones, yes. Its kinda weird. More javelins would overpower skirms against lighter armored units so that's bad too. The more attack, and the high end skirms become extremely good (like the AP Thracian ones were).

Is there any way to increase their run speed/stamina? They don't actually outrun anything right now.

[-Stormrage-]

i suggested increasing javbelin damage, becuase skirmishers are not gettign any kills , even when you target a phalanx formation they get 0-1 kills , and phalanxes are supposed to have like 2 shield, so why are skirmishers not getting kills ?

im not talking about killing light untis im talking about killing heavies. maybe u can increase lethality or something . and if we increase javelin damage only the soul skirmishers will get the boost , in other words only the units that are pure skirmishers aka only for skirmishing, because thats what they do thats their proffesiion they should be better at it.

[vartan]

I believe there are hidden factors at play here that are particular to the phalanx-mode capable units that result in this issue you depict with javelins being near-useless against phalanx-mode capable units.

[Kival]

The only thing which would help only against heavy armoured enemies is obviously the ap-trait but it should stay for pilums and similar weapons only.

[antisocialmunky]

Actually, running speed would be nice so you can actually legitimately deal with cav with light infantry.

[-Stormrage-]

no , im sure that increasing javelin damage or giving it AP , will solve the problem make javelin damage 11, and you will see

[antisocialmunky]

If you do that, then Peltastai will be able to spam all its javelin and then beat other infantry. I think they actually have decent javelins. I can see Celtic units becoming OP if you raised all their damage enough that they can hurt phalanx or Thureophoroi type infantry. Eastern Axe/Jav infantry will also be able to tear apart most celtic or mediterranian infantry.

[-Stormrage-]

Even with 11 attack damage they will not be able to get more then 3-4 kills when attacking a phalanx. they will not be OP they wont get crazy kills they will get 4 kills a vollye hopefully. I repeat with 11 attack for javelins they wont be OP. " I think they actually have decent javelins"-antisocialmunkey , are u kiddin me man , are we playing the same game here!? Javelins barely get one kill a volley. GG2 try Testing this ,try giving them AP or 11 attack , The ideal skirmisher would be one that gets 2-4 kills from the front. When javelins are hurled into a compact phalanx formation and dont get any kills thats just wrong, dont tell me they are deflected their sheild value is 2 . Please skirmishers are UNDERPOWERED right now, no they are not decent , make them decent. Those 2 hitpoint naked dudes are the ones which are overpowered, but thats a different topic.

Edit : try giving the Javs the AP trait or something . (good idea Kival)

[antisocialmunky]

So you're saying that you want to make Javelins over powered againt everything but phalanx?

[Lazy O]

Learn to use them before you change them, they are fine already.

[-Stormrage-]

Lazyo,Munky go do a test run and you'll see what im talking about. What is the problem if Someone just plays around with the stats and tests them? GO do Tests so you accually have something to back up your words.

[antisocialmunky]

Phalanx are wacky, don't even both missiling them because they get a crazy bonus from the front. Skirms are amazing against Germans, Celts, Luso, and other lightly armored units. No one is going to OP skirms against everything just to fix phalanx.

[-Stormrage-]

i think the best thing we can do on this matter is to give javs the AP trait so that they can get some kills on phalanx and leave their attack value as is, too lessen OP on lighter units. what do you think GG2

[vartan]

I think you're off by a mile storm. I recommend all javelins get over nine thousand attack and two AP traits, one for their armor piercing javelins, and one for their armor piercing fists.

[antisocialmunky]

Brvtvs Bannivs would be proud