[EB MP]3.0 Thread - Testing and Updates

**The Celtic Viking** · 01-23-2012, 19:07

That would've been an excellent question had it been relevant to this situation. It clearly is not, because as is steppe foot archers are useless because of their low numbers coupled with a rather high cost/man. I would call that "broken". If this fixes that, then I think that's great, and if a side effect of it is that it also fixes another problem... well, what's not to like?

**vartan** · 01-23-2012, 22:18

All I have to say to you gg2 is...good job.

**capomafioso** · 01-24-2012, 08:29

tried to have a game with a new guy frtigern tonight but when he installed the "d" hotfix or 3.0 edu his mp game kept crashing, apparently the mp game was working before he installed hte hotfix so any ideas on what this could be? if this is the wrong place to ask this sort of question forgive my trespasses lol

**gamegeek2** · 01-24-2012, 17:11

If anyone else has a better idea, I'm very open to hearing them out.

**Lazy O** · 01-24-2012, 18:07

How about pre 3.0 which everyone beside storm was fine with?

**Kival** · 01-24-2012, 19:56

Originally Posted by Lazy O

How about pre 3.0 which everyone beside storm was fine with?

Your assumption is wrong.

**Arjos** · 01-24-2012, 20:00

Originally Posted by gamegeek2

If anyone else has a better idea, I'm very open to hearing them out.

HAs with lots, lots and mmmm lots of arrows ^^
But reduce their range, or is it already? (smaller bows due to being mounted)...

Rest as you were planning is perfect, wealthier = bigger quiver and more arrows...

**gamegeek2** · 01-24-2012, 20:41

The beauty of the composite bow design was precisely that you didn't really sacrifice much power by shrinking size. Composite bows got a power boost when the new asymmetrical "Hun Bow" was introduced but the number of arrows found in graves after Hun Bows start showing up goes down significantly, suggesting that bigger bows meant fewer arrows.

**Arjos** · 01-24-2012, 21:10

Originally Posted by gamegeek2

The beauty of the composite bow design was precisely that you didn't really sacrifice much power by shrinking size.

I mostly had in mind the accuracy (even though, with packed infantry you don't really need it) and most of all the players going "What have you done!?! HAs are OP" :D

**Kival** · 01-25-2012, 05:00

Indian Longbowmen and steppe or near-steppe foot archers should have longer range than at least non-saka Horse-archers though.

**antisocialmunky** · 01-25-2012, 07:15

Make it:

ammo = k*sqrt(big unit size/standard unit size)

So units get slightly more ammo per man since the big archer untis are crappier shots.

**gamegeek2** · 01-26-2012, 19:17

Hmm...let's do some math on that. I would only apply that to foot archers though, as the wealth factor in horse archer ammo (upper tier horse archers are almost exclusively nobles, but they aren't too much better shots) seems very important. We also need to keep the strength of archers at a level that having access to mass archer levies is a significant advantage for Eastern factions. Hence, I'm actually thinking your proposal is the most reasonable.

To calculate the aggregate number of arrows for a given unit, we could instead try the formula:

A = srt(N)(K), where A is the total number of arrows. Ammunition per man = A/N, so hence M = K/sqrt(N), and K is a constant set differently for each bow.

For horse archers, we would use a different formula: A = NK, and K-values would be counted as 10x higher for horse archers than for foot archers. This would be to ensure a significant disparity between the number of arrows nobles carry and the number that common horse archer carry. We've established a rule limiting 50-man horse archers and bow-wielding generals to carrying the same number of arrows as 60-man horse archers with the same bow, in order to prevent the overpowering of cataphract archers, Roxolani nobles, and the like (as these units are almost good enough on their own without bows).

Let's try some test numbers:

If K for the Scythian/Sarmatian/Parthian bow is set at 250,

90-man Mardian archers would have 26 arrows per man.
80-man Bosporan archers would have 28 arrows per man.
70-man Sarmatian HAs would have 36 arrows per man.
60-man Noble Sarmatian HAs would have 42 arrows per man.
50-man Roxolani Noble HAs would have 42 arrows per man.

If we set K for the Persian/Mediterranean bow at 200,

120-man Persian archers would have 18 arrows per man.
90-man Numidian archers would have 21 arrows per man.
80-man Syrian archers would have 22 arrows per man.