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Thread: TWS2 RPG Discussion Thread

  1. #31
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    I would definetely be interested in this.
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  2. #32
    Member Member Ituralde's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Quote Originally Posted by deguerra View Post
    None of you so far have mentioned player structure (in terms of houses or families or whatever we called them). While ironically it almost works best historically with STW2, I wouldn't mind giving the game a try without the usual strict hierarchy and associated bonuses. It would free of inter-player diplomacy to be more varied and less rigid. And it would mean that a smaller playerbase or dwindling numbers (IMO the bane of all our RPGs) would be less of an issue.
    I agree that the feudal chain that was introduced in LotR would not have to apply to this game. All players would belong to the same clan without further subdivisions. The abilities would depend on whether you embody an agent or a general and wheter you have one of the nine major roles. Aside from that allegiances, and alliances are free to shift for whatever purpose that is required. It would be a much smaller and focussed experience.
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  3. #33
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    I had a very crazy idea: I don't have enough knowledge about historical Japan to say how accurate that would be but how about the following:

    1) Every player represents the head of a "family" inside the clan. They'd be noble families and thus controlling the Samurai of the clan. Influence could then be used on a biased vote but the Daimyo doesn't necessarily follow the results of the vote. Influence also controls Samurai though, so for a certain amount of influence a family would control a certain amount of samurai units (maybe they would choose what kind of Samurai units). They can directly choose to send their Samurai on campaign and support the current goals or withhold that support. Control on the battlefield would still be up to the general in charge of the army stack but the family head decides if his Samurai will fight at all, similar to what was proposed about the Head Monk and monk units.

    2) I also support that going for the Head Monk and monk units and maybe the Head Ninja for Kisho units, although they are hardly ever used anyway.

    3) This would give the Daimyo direct control over the Ashigaru units only, making the influence of the other players much more tangible in the campaign. It would also effectively limit our access to special/samurai units, giving us an overall limit and forcing us to rely on Ashigaru as well, maybe the Daimyo will even rather rely on Ashigaru in some situations, instead of giving his subordinates too much power.

    4) Not sure what to do with the Agent players though. Maybe they could be heads of families as well and just in control of their current agent or we find something else to involve them some more. The Head Monk would work well with the control of monk units but what if we decide to convert to christianity? We could also go ahead and just have one player as head agent for each category and have him control all his agents.

    Oh, also I'm very interested in joining this
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  4. #34
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    I like the idea about each ingame general as a family leader, which is historically correct, but I'd say all and even the Daimyo should've access to both ashigaru and samurai recruits...
    As for the metsuke/ninja, their head could represent a lesser figure, but capable to recruit ashigaru and maybe special units; afterall these individuals had a koku salary given by the clan...
    The monk is all set with sōhei units...

  5. #35
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Well the monk units only come into play as long as there is no conversion. Also, who'd be in charge for naval warfare.

    What I forgot is, yes, of course the Daimyo would have his own amount of samurai units as well, just limited, just like the other family heads and I like the idea that this will limit the overall amount of samurai the clan will be able to field.

    Also, any ideas as of yet, what difficulties to use and which clan to play? Some of the ingame mechanics should probably represent the clan, like someone already mentioned, the spiritual class would hold a lot of influence in the Uesugi clan while the Takeda would favor a skilled cavalry commander, etc.
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  6. #36
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    If the Daimyo turns christian, we could even rp the clan splitting and maybe even killing the Daimyo :D
    Otherwise instead of monks we'll have missionaries, and they could administer trade deals with europe, and with more influence maybe some admiral from the continent to oversee the Nanban ships...
    For naval warfare, we'll need an ingame general (I had a general fighting only on ships in a campaign and he gained pirate/admiral retainers was fun ^^)

    As for which clan I have no preferences, but imo we should pick something like the Hojo, Takeda, Mori or Shimazu: a clan with a lot of brothers and sons, since generals aren't as many as previous TW games...
    Difficulty anything beside legendary, because we'll definately need the manual savegame feature :P

  7. #37
    Travelling Knight Content Manager Nigel's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjos View Post
    For the little I know about Sengoku Jidai Japan, the Daimyo held war councils where every general could and had to make known his view regarding strategy, but the final say was the Daimyo's...
    That is my understanding, too.
    With that, we could still have votes, but they are non-binding and the Daimyo makes the final decision in the end. Votes would in that case be like the Daimyo sitting in front of his council and saying: "Gentlemen, we have this problem to solve. Suggestions!"


    Here is another though about controlling the navy.
    At some point I thought that the CoFinance will have very little to do (just setting taxes to the maximum possible and exemptimg those cities which are about to revolt is a bit of a no-brainer, really), so perhaps he could be given control of the trade ships, or the whole Navy, or the decision of whether the CoF or CoW controls the navy is left to be made by the Daimyo later in the game and the two can bicker and rival each other for that additional power, if they want to.


    As for difficulty, keep in mind that overall we will be much less efficient than if a single player was playing agianst the AI. I would suggest using either Normal or Hard. We do want to have the time to work on our careers and not just fight for survival all the time.
    Last edited by Nigel; 09-05-2011 at 19:34.

  8. #38
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    I'm for normal or hard battle difficulty and hard or very hard campaign. I dislike battles that are dominated by huge stat advantages to either side.
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  9. #39
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastDays View Post
    I'm for normal or hard battle difficulty and hard or very hard campaign. I dislike battles that are dominated by huge stat advantages to either side.
    I could be very wrong, but I think that in S2TW, the battle difficulty affects only the AI's skills, no stats...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post
    Here is another though about controlling the navy.
    At some point I thought that the CoFinance will have very little to do (just setting taxes to the maximum possible and exemptimg those cities which are about to revolt is a bit of a no-brainer, really), so perhaps he could be given control of the trade ships, or the whole Navy, or the decision of whether the CoF or CoW controls the navy is left to be made by the Daimyo later in the game and the two can bicker and rival each other for that additional power, if they want to.
    Could work, but I don't think that only the CoW should be the most focused on the military: every general had the ability to muster troops, they were some sort of military staff's chief board...
    I think it will add a nice feudal flavour having the troops scattered under several commanders...
    Last edited by Arjos; 09-05-2011 at 19:56.

  10. #40
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    It could be hard to identify the regiments though. Foe example if two families have their bow samurai in one general's army, after a battle how do you identify which one belongs to whom?

    Arjos, I think you're wrong, the AI gets stat bonuses on hard and very hard. They're not massive on hard though so I guess that would be fine.
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  11. #41
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Well each general should have his own troops, and maybe supply some to the Daimyo during invasions or threats, but they wouldn't want to merge troops with other families, could operate side by side if ordered so though: can simply have the 2 armies near eachother's AoEs...
    They'd be fighting to gain more status and priviliges from the Daimyo...
    Last edited by Arjos; 09-05-2011 at 20:32.

  12. #42
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Well I was talking about players that would not have a general to represent them in the game (yet) to have armies/units too. That'd would give their opinions/votes weight because the Daimyo would want their troops to join the campaing of course. On the other hand, directly refusing to fight would reduce influence or even get you decclared a rebel...
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  13. #43

    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    count me in!
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  14. #44
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Ah about the lesser figures, we could simply have the army under the ingame captain, and the agent could be overseeing it, unless he's busy with agent tasks...
    About tracking which units everyone has, we could keep a post for that updated with each army composition, so if orded the agents could merge to support generals, as they aren't part of the war council...
    This is just an idea to give agent players more to do, they could still fight battles, but with smaller armies and without a battle character development...

    To summarize something like this:

    Daimyo, has last word and decides the clan's conduct, can recruit any troop, can order vassals to supply troops.
    Heir, can recruit any troop, oversees any operation.
    CoW, can recruit only samurai and ashigaru units, oversees military operations.
    CoS, can recruit only samurai and ashigaru units, oversees recruitment.
    CoF, can recruit only samurai and ashigaru units, oversees taxation.
    CoD, can recruit only samurai and ashigaru units, oversees constructions.
    Admiral, can recruit only ships, oversees naval operations.
    Head Metsuke, can recruit only ashigaru (maybe 1 samurai unit), oversees specific province/s given by the Daimyo, orders the other 4 metsuke.
    Head Ninja, can recruit only ashigaru and kisho units, oversees the development of criminal buildings, orders the other 4 shinobi.
    Head Monk, can recruit only ashigaru and monk units, oversees temples, orders the other 4 priests.
    Last edited by Arjos; 09-05-2011 at 21:30.

  15. #45
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Checked the starting families for each clan:

    Chosokabe, 1 son and 1 general.
    Shimazu, 3 sons and 1 general.
    Date, 1 son and 2 brothers.
    Hojo, 3 sons and 1 general.
    Mori, 3 sons.
    Oda, 2 sons and 1 general.
    Takeda, 1 son and 2 brothers.
    Tokugawa 1 son and 1 general.
    Uesugi 1 brother.

    Unless Zim has different plans, Hojo, Mori and Shimazu seem the best choices...
    Also we'll need to determine who will control the diplomacy, splitting tasks, for example CoF for trade etc? Commissioner of Foreign Affairs?
    Last edited by Arjos; 09-05-2011 at 22:26.

  16. #46
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjos View Post
    Unless Zim has different plans, Hojo, Mori and Shimazu seem the best choices...
    I think Hojo or Mori, just because I have played Shimazu in SP and am bored with them

    There are some great ideas here and it's fantastic to see so many people interested. Looks like it's going to be a great game.

    One thing I'm noticing here is a trend towards more complexity, which is great in some ways but also a problem. Our recent experiences in the V&V RPG and to a lesser extent in KotN is that over-ambitious rules sets lead to GM fatigue and slow pace of turns while everything gets worked out and checked.

    So I'd lean away from implementing too much in terms of 'personal property' or 'personal armies' because it can be quite difficult to administer.

    We want this thing to run lean so it keeps a good pace and keeps everyone involved and immersed for as long as possible...

    I know Zim has been working on some rules so I think he'll post here soon with those for everyone's comment.
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  17. #47
    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Welcome to all new posters.

    It's been very encouraging to see how much interest this has generated, and all the different ideas being suggested. Things are a little hectic for the next day and a half (I work long shifts, thankfully followed by long weekends), especially while trying to get a draft ruleset together but I am reading every post.

    A couple brief points:
    -Phonics' note about complexity is well stated. Too much will bog things down and make it hard on the GM or players (depending which is given the responsibility for keeping track of a feature). On the other hand, we want to make things as fun as we can for the all of the players. It's a tough balance and one things start we may pause briefly from time to time to take a look at any things that end up obviously not working well.
    -Hojo and Mori both sound great to me, although I have been secretly hoping for Oda just so I could name the RPG after my favorite old game, Nobunaga's Ambition . Mori is a little bit safer being on an end of the main island rather than the center, and the naval and trade situation is more interesting on that side of the island. On the other hand, Hojo is right in the center of the action and a very tough and enjoyable game.
    -I was thinking around H/H or VH/VH difficulty, but it will depend on what people are comfortable with. Maybe we could do a poll as we get closer to start time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjos View Post
    For the little I know about Sengoku Jidai Japan, the Daimyo held war councils where every general could and had to make known his view regarding strategy, but the final say was the Daimyo's...
    So orders where issued according to his plan, influenced or not by his generals, and he could take control or choose a "delegate"...
    Same with agents, with the head/s of each commission be given free hand or directives...
    Influence points is a very good idea, could determine if one gets pardoned, trusted or forced to commit seppuku :D
    If we are making the meetings each ten turns be more of an advising council than a legislative body this could be an interesting way to keep influence. Maybe players get a base number of points per turn, modified by titles or being a high rank in game (so a rank 10 Head Ninja who serves as a Commissioner would be pretty well set, for example). These could then be spent on things like censures or bumping yourself in the recruitment queue (if we're letting all characters control troops). Maybe it's just a crazy idea...
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  18. #48
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Well my idea wasn't really going for personal armies. What I meant was, that each player, representing a familiy, would control an amount of Samurai warriors. They would only go to fight if their family head would send them, so, based in influence, every person in the council would have control over a part of the warrior supply of the clan. That gives their opinions real weight in the council, for the Daimyo could choose to ignore the advice of a powerful character but would risk not having this family's men at his disposal in the upcoming battles. This would also effectively limit the overall amount of Samurai our clan can field.

    That brings me to another point: There could be a mechanic to force the Daimyo to commit Seppuku if he isn't succesful or in other ways dishonors himself. I never tried to disband the Daimyo, is it possible?

    I'm for VH/H difficulties and either the Hojo or Oda.
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  19. #49
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Tested and nope can't "disband" Daimyo, we could have him charge yari head on XD
    Btw all my ideas were merely a brainstorm of feudal features :)
    As for the clan I really don't have any preferences, was simply concerned about the lack of generals: for example in a campaign I got many sons to marry very early and in 60ish turns the grandchildren came of age, plus some random generals joined in the mean time...
    Another time in a Uesugi campaign made Kenshin marry at the very beginning and that monk didn't consumate for the whole campaign :D

  20. #50

    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    lol I'm a bit overwhelmed by the discussion of ideas here, but I would be interested in participating, preferably as a general (if I'm going to actually devote time to it) or a metsuke.

    Ill keep checking back, but let me know when things are decided/if I'm in/when we start/etc...

  21. #51

    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Maybe playerst hat don't have a direct role in the game, can RP themselves as important, known Samurai, whom carry a lot of weight in society, and thus are listened to?
    <enter something witty here>

  22. #52
    Travelling Knight Content Manager Nigel's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    I would be happy with either Mori or Hojo, with a slight preference for Hojo.

    As for difficulty, can this be adjusted while the game is running?
    So if we make a bad choice here, can it be recitfied?

    For the term we take until the offices are re-considered, maybe we want this to be not 10 but eigther 8 or 12 turns = 2 or 3 full game years.

    Oh, and wellcome Kogitsune

  23. #53

    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    thanks :-)


    i've been lurking in here, waiting for a nice rpg to come along :)
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  24. #54
    The Abominable Senior Member Hexxagon Champion Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post
    I would be happy with either Mori or Hojo, with a slight preference for Hojo.

    As for difficulty, can this be adjusted while the game is running?
    So if we make a bad choice here, can it be recitfied?

    For the term we take until the offices are re-considered, maybe we want this to be not 10 but eigther 8 or 12 turns = 2 or 3 full game years.

    Oh, and wellcome Kogitsune
    Battle difficulty can be adjusted via the option menu while a campaign is in progress, yes. Campaign difficulty however cannot. Due to the added complexity we are adding onto the Shogun 2 campaign with our meta-game, i suggest no higher than Hard for campaign difficulty.

  25. #55
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post
    I would be happy with either Mori or Hojo, with a slight preference for Hojo.

    As for difficulty, can this be adjusted while the game is running?
    So if we make a bad choice here, can it be recitfied?

    For the term we take until the offices are re-considered, maybe we want this to be not 10 but eigther 8 or 12 turns = 2 or 3 full game years.

    Oh, and wellcome Kogitsune

    You can alter the battle difficulty any time, methinks. Campaign difficulty is fixed for the whole campaign.
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  26. #56
    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Here is a very bare bones rule set I've been working on. It does not yet include all of the features discussed and is just meant a base structure to build on, change, or discard as we see fit. Which features haven't been included yet is not an indication regarding their merit but more a matter of time. I wanted to get something posted so that people couild comment on the rules so far and how they may want to incorporate other things we've talked about.

    The cheesy name, Clan, and difficulty settings are just fill ins until we decide those for real.

    Also, partially off subject, but preliminary testing shows captains very resilient to merging and splitting troops up, and even having a general merged into then out of an army. Some more work is needed but captains might be easier to integrate into the rpg than initially suspected.

    A few quick thoughts:
    -Disobeying orders for the agent missions: Should there be an in-game penalty beyond the risk of being censured?
    -Influence: Weighted system for censure votes as given or changed to some sort of accumulated points system where points are spent to cause/defend against censures, maybe to avoid penalties for disobeying orders if we add them?
    -Civil War rules: I will be adding these
    -Daimyo: Should their be any special way to censure/otherwise punish an extremely unpopular Daimyo? Appointing Commissions and non binding Councils make him very powerful. Is it too much?
    -Censures: Do the levels seem fair? Should it be harder to pass higher level ones beyond people being reluctant to administer the higher punishments, and can too many people make censure attempts (influence points that could be spent or lost might prevent censure spam)
    -Funding agent missions: Most missions cost money. Should head agents have a "fund" that is withdrawed when they or their people undertake missions or should they be allowed free reign to try with the Supply Commissioner picking up the pieces as far as what money's left at the end of the turn. Censures could e an ingame way to keep ninjas and Metsukes from being too mission happy. And speaking of agent money...
    -Monk troops: Should these instead be ordered by the Warfare Commissioner but controlled by the Head Monk, or should the Head Monk have some way to have to pay for them since he controls them? The second is a little limiting but gives the Head Monk more independence.

    So, as a base structure, any much needed changes, big mistakes, or need to scrap to just scrap it all as terrible?

    Rules

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Hojo Rising

    1. General

    (a). - Game Settings:

    TWS2
    Hard Campaign, Very Hard Battles.
    Clan Hojo
    Large Unit Size
    Battle Timer On
    Show CPU Moves
    Manage All Settlements

    (b). - Avatars: Each player will roleplay a member of one of the prominent families of the Hojo clan. On joining the game, each player will choose an avatar to represent their character. Avatars can be in-game Generals, Captains or any of the different types of agents. They will control their character on the game map as well as, if applicable, any armies they command.

    (c). - Battles: A player whose avatar leads an army that is involved in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved. If a player cannot fight a battle that is assigned to them, the battle may also be fought by any player whose avatar will also be present in the battle. Under no circumstances will a battle be fought by a player whose avatar is not present in the battle. If there is no player available to fight a battle, it must be autoresolved. If there are no allocated avatars involved in the battle at all, it must be autoresolved.

    (d) - Game Management: At the start of each turn, the Supply Commissioner will post an seasonal report on the events of the last turn, including a save game file for the new turn. After the annual report is posted, players will have at least 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves. Players can move their avatars, move any unit or fleet their avatar owns, and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army. Player may also move any unit, fleet, or avatar they have been given specific permission to move by the respective owner, as long as that permission is posted in a public thread. The Supply Commissioner may extend the time limit beyond 24 hours at his discretion, but all players are encouraged to act as swiftly as possible to keep the game moving. Players may not move avatars or armies into the territory of a neutral or allied faction without the permission of an edict. Nor may they attack the settlements or armies of neutral or allied factions without a declaration of war resulting from an edict.

    (e) - Game Master: Zim will serve as Game Master and is responsible for management of the game and enforcement of the Game Rules. Zim can delegate any of his powers to another person whenever he chooses.

    2. - Ranks

    (a). - Rank Gain and Loss: All players enter the game as prominent members of the Samurai class and in most cases heads of their family (with some exceptions for the latter in the cases of Monks and natural sons of the Daimyo). This gives them the right to participate in the Daimyo's councils and vote on matters such as censure. Players that have an in-game avatar will have a base rank depending on their avatar type (General, Captain, Ninja, Monk, Metsuke, or Geisha). Finally players may have additional special ranks conferring abilities and influence bonuses. Some of these are available to all avatars (chiefly the Commissioner ranks) and some are avatar type specific (heads of the agent types, heir, etc.
    (b) - Base Ranks: These ranks automatically apply to new in-game avatars of the relevant type. The base ranks and positions are as follows:

    Captain:
    Requirements: Must be a captain attached to a troop unit.
    Influence: 1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per Council Session.

    General:
    Requirements: Must be an in-game faction general.
    Influence: 1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per Council Session.

    Ninja:
    Requirements: Must be an in-game Ninja agent
    Influence: 1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per Council Session.

    Metsuke:
    Requirements: Must be an in-game Metsuke agent.
    Influence: 1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per Council Session.

    Monk:
    Requirements: Must be an in-game Monk agent.
    Influence: 1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per Council Session

    (c) - Special Ranks: These ranks are held in addition to the base ranks. Where they differ special rank traits take precedence than those of the character's base rank. The special ranks and positions are as follows: Influence for special ranks is added on top of that for base ranks. Influence bonuses for multiple special ranks is cumulative.

    Commissioner of Finance:
    Requirements: Any avatar type can become Commissioner of Finance. The rank is conferred by the Daimyo at each Council session or when no one holds the rank due to giving it up, the character dying, or loss due to censure. If the character is a general, they are given the rank in-game as well.
    Influence: +1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per term at any time during the term itself or the Council following appointment. This ability and all others are lost upon loss of the rank.
    (2) At any time the Commissioner of Finance may take the save and adjust the faction wide tax rate and/or set province specific tax exemptions.
    Penalties:
    (1) Cannot hold any other Commissioner ranks at the same time.


    Commissioner of Warfare:
    Requirements: Any avatar type can become Commissioner of Warfare. The rank is conferred by the Daimyo at each Council session or when no one holds the rank due to giving it up, the character dying, or loss due to censure. If the character is a general, they are given the rank in-game as well.
    Influence: +1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per term at any time during the term itself or the Council following appointment. This ability and all others are lost upon loss of the rank.
    (2) Once per turn may submit a list to the Commissioner of Supply of units to recruit in the different provinces and ports. This power does not apply to the Clan Capital or to monk units.
    Penalties:
    (1) Cannot hold any other Commissioner ranks at the same time.

    Commissioner of Development:
    Requirements: Any avatar type can become Commissioner of Development. The rank is conferred by the Daimyo at each Council session or when no one holds the rank due to giving it up, the character dying, or loss due to censure. If the character is a general, they are given the rank in-game as well.
    Influence: +1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per term at any time during the term itself or the Council following appointment. This ability and all others are lost upon loss of the rank.
    (2) Once per turn may submit a list to the Commissioner of Development of structures to build/upgrade in the different provinces. This power does not apply to the Clan Capital or to monk units.
    Penalties:
    (1) Cannot hold any other Commissioner ranks at the same time.

    Commissioner of Supply:
    Requirements: Any avatar type can become Commissioner of Supply. The rank is conferred by the Daimyo at each Council session or when no one holds the rank due to giving it up, the character dying, or loss due to censure. If the character is a general, they are given the rank in-game as well.
    Influence: +1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose one Censure per term at any time during the term itself or the Council following appointment. This ability and all others are lost upon loss of the rank.
    (2) At the end of each turn the Commissioner of Supply takes control of the save. He moves all armies not controlled by a general or player led captain, and queues units and buildings in all provinces with the exceptions of the capital and monk units. Only units and buildings from the lists given by the Commissioners of Warfare and Development may be queued, but the Commissioner of Supply may choose which parts of the lists to fulfill, or choose not to recruit or engage in any construction that turn.
    Penalties:
    (1) Cannot hold any other Commissioner ranks at the same time.

    Daimyo:
    Requirements: Must be the in-game Daimyo.
    Influence: +3
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose a Censure any time either during the Council or the regular term.
    (2) Controls all faction diplomacy
    (3) May take the save at any time and queue up units and/or construction within the capital province.
    (4) Twice per term may give orders to the head ninja to be carried out by him or his subordinates before the end of the term.
    (5) Appoints the 4 Commissioner at each Council. May also appoint a Commissioner midterm if an absence is created by a death, Censure, or abdication.
    (6) May appoint a new heir at any time.
    (7) This rank may not be lost via Censure
    Penalties:
    (1) Cannot hold any other special rank.

    Heir:
    Requirements: Must be the in-game Heir.
    Influence: +2
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose up to 2 Censures any time either during the Council or the regular term.
    (2) This rank may not be lost via Censure.

    Head Ninja:
    Requirements: The first ninja avatar created becomes the Head Ninja. Should he die or abdicate the rank passes to the highest skill player led ninja available.
    Influence: +1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose up to 2 Censures any time either during the Council or the regular term.
    (2) Twice per term may give an order to a subordinate ninja to be finished before the next Council session.

    Head Monk:
    Requirements: The first monk avatar created becomes the Head Ninja. Should he die or abdicate the rank passes to the highest skill player led monk available.
    Influence: +1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose up to 2 Censures any time either during the Council or the regular term.
    (2) Controls all Monk troop units and may merge the with other Clan armies or split them from an army at his discretion. Note that if the units are in a stack with a player led captain or general then that player fights the battle.

    Head Metsuke:
    Requirements: The first Metsuke avatar created becomes the Head Metsuke. Should he die or abdicate the rank passes to the highest skill player led Metsuke available.
    Influence: +1
    Powers:
    (1) Can propose up to 2 Censures any time either during the Council or the regular term.
    (2) Twice per term may give an order to a subordinate Metsuke to be finished before the next Council session.

    3. - Government

    (a) - Sessions: The Clan Council meets once every 8 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations but some actions (such as appointing new Commissioners) are generally limited to the actual Council meetings. Each session consists of 3 real time days of debate, followed by 2 real time days of voting if a rules change is proposed. Zim or anyone delegated by him can change the length of individual sessions at will.

    (b) - Rule Changes: Rule Changes require a two-thirds majority of unweighted votes (1 vote per player) to pass. Rule Changes can permanently change the Game Rules. Any player can propose Rule Changes, regardless of IC rank. Zim does not vote. Game Rules are enforced by IC or OOC means, as the GM sees fit.

    (f) - Influence: Each Noble’s voting power is equivalent to his total Influence. No Noble's Influence may ever be lower than 1. Influence is increased permanantly by 1 if a Noble marries a Princess of the royal family and 1 for each term a noble serves as Chancellor.

    (c) - Censure: As outlined under the individual ranks in Section 2, player characters have the ability to call for a Censure of another character. Generally this is meant to be because a character has disobeyed an order or failed in such a way as to lose honor, but obviously political reasons may come into play as well. When a Censure is made the turn cannot be advanced for 48 hours. The first 24 hours are spent in debate in the Council thread about the validity of the censure, and then a poll is made with a 24 hour time limit. A Censure requires a two-thirds majority to pass.

    The player proposing the Censure must choose the level of censure he is attempting to apply.
    (1)Level One Censure: -1 influence for 2 turns
    (2)Level Two Censure: -2 influence for 4 turns and imprisonment for 2 turns (so no in-game actions are permitted and excluded from certain votes
    (3)Level Three Censure: -3 influence for 6 turns and imprisonment for 4 turns
    (4)Level Four Censure: loss of all special ranks except those exempt under their descriptions in section 2.


    5. - Armies

    (a) - Armies: With the exception of Monk units all units in a stack led by a player controlled general or captain are under the control of that player and he may move them along with his character for as long as he wishes. If two different general led armies are merged together, each player keeps control of the units that were in their stack before the merging. Any stacks led by a non player captain are moved by the Commissioner of Supply.

    (b) - Seizing Armies: Any General may take control of troops without a player led general or captain by merging his character into them. Only the Daimyo may instantly seize any army his avatar moves onto, regardless of the presence of a player general, unless that general is in a state of Civil War against the Daimyo. A General may not move his avatar onto an army owned by a General unless both Generals agree to the move beforehand. This rule does not apply to garrisons of settlement. Avatars and monk troops may never be seized.

    (c) - Naval Fleets: Naval fleets are moved by the Supply Commissioner unless an in-game general is on board, in which case the general commands the fleet.
    Last edited by Zim; 09-09-2011 at 16:14.
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  27. #57
    Travelling Knight Content Manager Nigel's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Sounds pretty good. Here are a few thoughts I have :

    Censures :
    We should make sure that we are not getting censure spam, in my opinion, as excessive debates about censuring will distract from actually playing the game. Censures should be an exception, rather than the rule (my opinion, anyway).

    Monk troops :
    I think the Head Monk should decide which troops to recruit at which temple. But of course he does not have any money of his own, so he has to “live on donations to the temple”, i.e. ask the Daimyo or the CoS for the funding he needs for that turn

    Funding agent missions.
    Like with monks, I think trying to keep track of a separate fund for each agent is going to make it overly complicated for Zim. Agents should be given free reign and leave the CoS to tear his hair out over the financial consequences. Or there can be situations where an agent is so close to completing his mission in the next turn, but desperately lacking the funds, leaving him to beg, cry, argue and threaten the CoS not to construct that castle or recruit those troops but let him have the money. It all adds to the drama of the game without getting Zim bogged down in recording and changing numbers on a piece of paper all the time.
    Last edited by Nigel; 09-09-2011 at 17:48.

  28. #58
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    For censures, maybe we can give a penalty for the proposer's influence if the censure fails...
    I agree with Nigel for the rest too; while for the unpopular Daimyo the only solution is rebellion/civil war: where for example the unpopular Daimyo will go around looking for help making promises etc, so if the rebellion would fail, he will become a pupet figure giving more possibilities for further conflicts :)

  29. #59
    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Funding agent missions.
    Like with monks, I think trying to keep track of a separate fund for each agent is going to make it overly complicated for Zim. Agents should be given free reign and leave the CoS to tear his hair out over the financial consequences.
    I suddenly have this image of the CoS getting an expense report from the head ninja.
    What do you mean 400 koku for use of Iko's public baths?!
    Well, we needed to relax a bit after taking out that Metsuke.
    V&V RIP Helmut Becker, Duke of Bavaria.



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  30. #60
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWS2 RPG? Advantages and obstacles

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjos View Post
    For censures, maybe we can give a penalty for the proposer's influence if the censure fails...
    Yeah this is what I proposed and I think it's a good way to limit needless censuring, so long as influence plays important enough a role.
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