Brexit Thread

[Lizardo]

Who would be surprised if David Cameron's next Career path lead to him being the next president of the EU? It would be just as comical as it was when Tony Blair became the Middle East peace envoy. October is a long time away for a new prime minister and I think Article 50 should be enacted and Negotiations to start right away, because the longer we wait the more volatile our currency will be. And in the mean time Negotiations with Non-EU countries for trading should take place.

Sore Losers as we speak are signing a online petition to create a 2nd referendum Claiming we need a 75 percent turn out lol and 60 percent win lol these people are idiots. Funny because that was the highest ever turn out since WW2.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Leaked Script of Labour's response to referendum result

[Fragony]

Binding is an incredibly difficult word it seems

[Husar]

So what if Cameron leaves, and then you get new elections, and a party runs on the promise of ignoring the referendum and not invoking article 50 and then this party gets >50% of the vote?

[Lizardo]

No there would be civil war if that happened

[Greyblades]

So what if Cameron leaves, and then you get new elections, and a party runs on the promise of ignoring the referendum and not invoking article 50 and then this party gets >50% of the vote?

Considering Juncker told us to piss off, I donts ee it happening.

[HopAlongBunny]

The Science community is worried:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...leave-the-e-u/

In what may become a popular refrain: "gov't will compensate for shortfalls"

[Pannonian]

The Science community is worried:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...leave-the-e-u/

In what may become a popular refrain: "gov't will compensate for shortfalls"

Cornwall pleas for reassurance it will not be 'worse off' following Brexit vote

Cornwall has issued an urgent plea for reassurance that it will not be worse off following the Brexit vote.

The county has received a "significant amounts" of funding from the EU for the past 15 years due to its "relatively weak economy".

But, after 56.5% of voters in the county chose to leave the Union, the council says it is now seeking urgent reassurance that money allocated to it will still be received.

Prior to the vote the Council said they were told by the Leave campaign that funding would still be available.

They also said they had been told Cornwall "would not be worse off" in terms of investment they received.
Now that we know the UK will be leaving the EU we will be taking urgent steps to ensure that the UK Government protects Cornwall’s position in any negotiations.

We will be insisting that Cornwall receives investment equal to that provided by the EU programme which has averaged £60M per year over the last ten years.

– JOHN POLLARD, THE LEADER OF CORNWALL COUNCIL

Cornwall can piss off. London money for Londoners only.

[Greyblades]

Are you drunk?

[CrossLOPER]

Are you drunk?

Come on, man! Have some imagination. Every county can be its own country! There's no limit! With the US's gerrymandering skills, you can create a geopolitical landscape unseen since the Thirty Years' War!

[drone]

The true tragedy of this vote will be the decline of the Premier League. Needing work permits for the South American talent is bad enough, now the continental players will have to do the same.

[Elmetiacos]

Aargh. Just aargh.

[Sarmatian]

The true tragedy of this vote will be the decline of the Premier League. Needing work permits for the South American talent is bad enough, now the continental players will have to do the same.

Overpriced English talent to the rescue!

[HopAlongBunny]

To start the "End of the World" dance party:

[Greyblades]

I think I just heard fireworks outside.

[InsaneApache]

We have then up here. Someone remarked the other day that it meant the drugs are here..

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So what if Cameron leaves, and then you get new elections, and a party runs on the promise of ignoring the referendum and not invoking article 50 and then this party gets >50% of the vote?

Why do you think he's putting off invoking Article 50?

Personally, I can hardly believe it - but it's not that surprising when you consider that the "Stay" campaign devolved into "Project Fear" to the extent that a lot of people are now convinced fascism is coming.

What decided it for me, I think, was the German politicians talking about how it would be "hard" if we left and they're now saying we'll "suffer" so I think we'rem well shot. Trying to intimidate the English just causes us to set our faces, and the Welsh are the same. Ireland - as noted - voted along Sectarian lines but the split wasn't that clean, about 11%, the Scottish gap at 18% is more profound, but turnout there was also 6% lower.

Gibraltar will be upset but they won't leave, especially given how quick Spain was to try to get the knife in.

If the EU is smart they'll offer the UK a deal that's better than WTO rules but not as nice as being in the EU and leave the door open for us to come back in 10 years after we've had our fill of living democratically.

Of course, in ten years the EU might have undergone the sort of reform Britain has been demanding for a couple of decades but which Italy, France and Germany are only now considering - after the horse has bolted.

[Pannonian]

Why do you think he's putting off invoking Article 50?

Personally, I can hardly believe it - but it's not that surprising when you consider that the "Stay" campaign devolved into "Project Fear" to the extent that a lot of people are now convinced fascism is coming.

What decided it for me, I think, was the German politicians talking about how it would be "hard" if we left and they're now saying we'll "suffer" so I think we'rem well shot. Trying to intimidate the English just causes us to set our faces, and the Welsh are the same. Ireland - as noted - voted along Sectarian lines but the split wasn't that clean, about 11%, the Scottish gap at 18% is more profound, but turnout there was also 6% lower.

Gibraltar will be upset but they won't leave, especially given how quick Spain was to try to get the knife in.

If the EU is smart they'll offer the UK a deal that's better than WTO rules but not as nice as being in the EU and leave the door open for us to come back in 10 years after we've had our fill of living democratically.

Of course, in ten years the EU might have undergone the sort of reform Britain has been demanding for a couple of decades but which Italy, France and Germany are only now considering - after the horse has bolted.

And London, which pays more into the kitty that funds services in the UK than any other region, voted strongly to remain. And Cornwall, having voted to leave, are now seeking reassurances from the Leave camp that EU subsidies will be replaced by ones from Westminster. I say screw them. London money for Londoners only. Let the Leavers make their own way, without London to soften their landing.

I would now support regional governments in England, with local taxation funding local services, with only defence and foreign affairs shared at a higher level. Let the southwest, Welsh, north, etc. fund themselves from their own tax money, without dipping into London's coffers.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm sorry, is the wealthy Londoner coming down to earth with a bump, realising he doesn't control the country?

You lost the vote - get over it and move on.

[Pannonian]

I'm sorry, is the wealthy Londoner coming down to earth with a bump, realising he doesn't control the country?

You lost the vote - get over it and move on.

London hasn't been controlling the country, voting consistently Labour while the rest of England voted Tory. But these were elections and occurred regularly, and I'm ok with subsidising the rest of the country even though these regular elections put London at odds with the rest of the country. But this vote has results that will last for decades, and London, whose money keeps the rest of the country afloat (including fiscal black holes like the south west and Wales), has been dragged out of the EU despite voting 60% remain. If the south west value their pride that much, let them pay for it themselves. Break off the south east as far north as Essex, as far west as Berkshire, and everything to their south and east. Let the rest of England make their own way.

[InsaneApache]

You don't really get this democracy malarky do you?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Leftists see a lost election as an out right attack.

[CrossLOPER]

You don't really get this democracy malarky do you?

They can always get on that wagon full of malarky and vote their way out. Then they can build a wall to keep all the unwashed ones out while they pave their streets with platinum or whatever.

[Lizardo]

I dont understand Sturgeon or Scotland they want to leave the UK and become independent but then give it all away to Brussels?

[Fragony]

I dont understand Sturgeon or Scotland they want to leave the UK and become independent but then give it all away to Brussels?

The eurocrats will want to get even and send some bags with money, pretty smart of them really as the grapes are really sour in Brussels

[Furunculus]

BREXIT Happened – Please don’t Farage it up!

Well blow me down! I thought it would be 52:48 to Remain, not 52:48 to Leave. Now it has happened, how do we make the best of it? First of all; the sky is not falling in. It’s a big change, but the reason why the UK has survived over three centuries without revolution, invasion, or collapse, is because we always step up to a challenge. And because we know a changing world demands continual adaptation. Moreover, it is a victory won by Vote Leave not Leave.eu.

So we don’t need to run scared of Nige…

Don’t get me wrong, I am enormously impressed with his grit, tenacity, and perseverance, but his journey has led him to represent interests I simply don’t share.

So, Vote Leave:

Why did they pursue the £350m figure when the sensible choice would have been for the campaign to avoid it like unstable dynamite. They endured week after week or grueling headlines about “lies”, defending the figure night after night when everyone was saying that Leave was losing. On the one hand, it is perfectly reasonable to point out that Basic Rate income tax is 22p in the pound, regardless of whether you get 19p back in gov’t services. On the other, subtracting the repayments without also explaining the rebate would have been a shambles, ripe for endless ridicule in what passed for serious referendum debate. But surely they would have had a much easier time defending the straight net figure of £120m/week? After all, in terms of public debate £120m is an enormous figure just like £350m, but without all the baggage.

Is it because their plan entails joining EFTA/EEA in the event of winning the referendum? If the plan is to join EFTA then there will be a significant cost per head, roughly the same as Norway pays today, and roughly the same as the net cost we pay in total to the EU right now. “Vote Leave to save nothing!” That would have been the headline if they’d gone with the £120m/week figure. Sure, we still save nothing having joined EFTA after talking about £350m, but now we’re back to the income tax argument. ‘We’ get to decide what to do with the other £230m. A fairly nominal victory afterwards, but at least it doesn’t look ridiculous as would have been the case had they opted for a more accurate figure. Take back control!

Hold on, you say; all well and good, but doesn’t EFTA involve the four freedoms, one of which is the free movement? Why yes. But, didn’t they spend every waking minute in the debates talking about how they would reduce immigration to a trickle? I didn’t hear that claim. Gove, Johnson, and Leadsom all conspicuously avoided ever being tied down to any commitment on how much they would reduce migration by. So much so, that the Remain camp started to use it as an attack against Leave, constantly baiting the trio that they were hiding plans for even HIGHER migration than Remain. Because, isn’t that what happens under Australia’s points-based system relative to Britain. Did you lose track of that in the repeated incantation of “Take back control”?

You can’t “Take back control” when the regime of freedom of movement persists, surely? True, but somebody somewhere obviously thought the schengen crisis would in future provide some scope for revisiting this. It may not amount to much, perhaps only reducing the legal threshold by which someone may be excluded due to the threat they pose. Would this be enough? It might have to be, because the 48% that voted Remain see freedom of movement as totemic to their EUropean identity. Retaining freedom of movement within EFTA may be enough to shoot the SNP fox. The four freedoms are also deemed crucial by small but important demographics such as Gibraltar.

Would freedom of movement be a betrayal of many of those who voted “Out” from the Labour heartland towns? Sure, but that isn’t my problem, and it isn’t Tory party’s either. Seriously, I’m a middle-class classical-liberal in a tech profession with a decade of experience under my collection of qualifications. Freedom of movement is great! But why has Labour been unable to understand that freedom of movement has never been seen as a reciprocal right by its core electorate? Yes, it’s great that Mikel and Bartec can come here and work (really, it is), but of what use is freedom of movement to Damon and Jordan with the five E-C grade GCSE’s? Essentially, any betrayal is a problem for the Labour party, and a boon to the Tory’s.

This last is a warning to the left-wing that feeling salty about the referendum result isn’t good enough. If you care about your ‘constituency’ then you need to address the problem when it comes up in the negotiation, because neo-liberal conservatives aren’t going to expend political capital doing it for you. EFTA could be just a transitional thing while a more bespoke arrangement is put in place. Put your shoulder to the wheel, even if that means limiting your ability to sip Kraft beer whenever the mood takes.

One last point on trade. It should be tariff free with the developing world. It should be supported by lowering business taxes to compete with cheap imports. That should be paid for by slashing the DfID budget in half. It would make a lovely change if, having escaped the EU external tariff border, we helped developing nations get richer with trade. This, as opposed to hiding behind the EU’s tariff wall, and making ourselves feel better about their continued poverty by giving billions in aid so that despots and quangos can swan around sunny parts of the world in Toyota Landcruisers.

This objective is also achievable from within EFTA.😉

p.s. Why do pundits keep describing the result as decisive? It was not, which is why measures to assuage the fears of the 48% are important.

[Furunculus]

So what if Cameron leaves, and then you get new elections, and a party runs on the promise of ignoring the referendum and not invoking article 50 and then this party gets >50% of the vote?

then we resort to article 61 in the original treaty of magna carta: lawful rebellion.

i.e. we turn up in front of parliament with burning brands and erect a gibbet.

[Greyblades]

Brexit was a flawed campaign that could have been lost if come up against someone with a good sense of public relations, bremain alas had none.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

London hasn't been controlling the country, voting consistently Labour while the rest of England voted Tory. But these were elections and occurred regularly, and I'm ok with subsidising the rest of the country even though these regular elections put London at odds with the rest of the country. But this vote has results that will last for decades, and London, whose money keeps the rest of the country afloat (including fiscal black holes like the south west and Wales), has been dragged out of the EU despite voting 60% remain. If the south west value their pride that much, let them pay for it themselves. Break off the south east as far north as Essex, as far west as Berkshire, and everything to their south and east. Let the rest of England make their own way.

Have you considered that the reason we voted "Leave" outside of our own little Micro-London of Exeter is that we just haven't been seeing the benefit? Londoners talk about subsidising the UK the way Victorians talk about housing the poor. The South West is poor because it relies on farming and UK farming has ever been a target of the EU because the CAP benefit French farming.

[HopAlongBunny]

BBC DeadRingers:

http://bbc.in/28QdRD6

[Husar]

You don't really get this democracy malarky do you?

How is London not wanting to pay for Wales any different from Britain not wanting to pay for Poland?
Freedom for London I say!