Feedback on Multiplayer after VI release

**Puzz3D** · 05-10-2003, 18:50

NC,

I wasn't making a comparision between VI and MTW v1.1. I don't know if the imbalance is bigger or smaller, but there is definitely imbalance in viking era which isn't surprising.

**spacecadet** · 05-10-2003, 19:45

Having played it for a few hours, i'd say that the balance is definately better than it was in mtw. 12000 florins is definately a lot nicer in feel than 15k, where units hold a far too long even with flanking. As for the viking era, i think this could end up being just a novelty, like the mongol era was in shogun - fun but no where near as good as regular high and late era games.

Space

**Daevorn** · 05-10-2003, 19:49

I'm agree with Yuuki, as i can say from my few battles, i found the some faction i viking are stronger than other

but i'm really happy for the "normal" faction... maybe is just an psycolocical thing

, but i really find the MP improved...
more tactics, spears beat cav and don't rout... well, imo it is VERY good

See you

**Paolai** · 05-10-2003, 20:13

I have played about 5/6 games vs LRossaRikimaru today, and the game in late era is brilliant, I had a lot of fun: spears work, cavs are now weaker and do the same job than on STW/MI and archers are good. I like it

**Magyar Khan** · 05-10-2003, 20:17

i played it a few hours and it feels much better now at 10k. to play mongols i have to play late and encounter the pavs still, i wonder why mongols are in late anyway

**Puzz3D** · 05-11-2003, 03:42

I had a very nice 3v3 high era game with all good players at 12k florins per player. I haven't tried 10k yet.

**ElmarkOFear** · 05-11-2003, 05:14

..

**Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe** · 05-11-2003, 05:26

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (ElmarkOFear @ May 10 2003,23:14)]In 4v4 games i have hosted if any one person quits or loses connection to server then I (The host) is immediately dropped from server as well. Not good for 4v4 games. I also think it happens at 3v3 2v2 and 1v1, but not sure. This is a major bug.

Major annoyance...

Maybe no good deeds goes unpunished

It seems that dropped armies automatically withdraw. And the next thing is everybody crash.

Automatical withdrawing of dropped ghost army is IMO a good feature... Too bad it's buggy.

Louis,

**Kongamato** · 05-11-2003, 05:51

The dropping feature causes everybody to go out of sync. I am extremely upset by this. This is a bug of mass destruction. VI feels like a good game so far, but this is ruining the MP end. I really hope it gets fixed.

**Dionysus9** · 05-11-2003, 06:56

Well Konga, dont hold your breath....might be awhile.

Other than the fact we now have a drop/sync bug, I'm liking the "feel" of the battles. Some good, epic clashes already.

**baz** · 05-11-2003, 11:40

reading posts from paolai and Yuuki, shows that some good has come here and hopefully it will be an improvement

**Tempiic** · 05-11-2003, 15:41

Am I the only one who has the opinion that by lowering florins more and more, that army selection becomes more and more important than actual game skills (excluding fast clicking which is not the same exactly as micromanagment)... especially since fast clicking (and rushing your army at a point behind enemy army) is playing a much bigger role then as well rather than positioning of units and unit match ups.

Seems to me the patch value of this expansion is quite meaningless, since everyone wants to play it just as mtw 1.1 15K... rather than changing their playstyles. Seems we will have roughly the same complains soon again when we all play this at say 8K florins.

Oh I dont want to hear the you dont have to play 15K (in mtw 1.1)/8K/10K (whatever the VI standard will be) games counter-argument.

**tgi01** · 05-11-2003, 16:39

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ] Tempiic : Am I the only one who has the opinion that by lowering florins more and more, that army selection becomes more and more important than actual game skills

Yepp I couldnt agree more Im quite happy with the game without the chain rout and the better rallying is quite ok ..., I dont have any intention to lower florin in my games ...

Played mostly vikings this far it is fun , the late era felt the same ( just used swiss pikes for the first and last time

)

It is a pity mongols arent availiable in high ...

TGI

**Puzz3D** · 05-11-2003, 16:54

Well, 12k doesn't throw away all the morale gain in v2.0, and units still fight longer than in v1.1 at 15k. Even 10k will retain some of the morale gain, although, not much. The lower you go the more of a rush game it becomes, and the more effective the cavalry will be vs infantry.

**longjohn2** · 05-11-2003, 17:32

It seems to me that the more florins you play with, the less skill is required. At high florins the only things that matter are match ups and who got the most combat power for their buck.
With lower florin levels, the morale system comes into play more, and transitory advantages gained by manoeuvre can be turned into routing enemy units.

**tgi01** · 05-11-2003, 19:23

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ] longjohn : It seems to me that the more florins you play with, the less skill is required. At high florins the only things that matter are match ups and who got the most combat power for their buck.

Lower thats form 15 k to maybe 10-12k ... noone in this forums plays at anything above 15k ....

TGI

**Puzz3D** · 05-11-2003, 19:52

I think it's a matter finding a florin level where the maneuver aspect and the fighting aspect are roughly of equal importance. Combat power is still important at that point, and imbalances in combat power vs cost results in fewer unit types being useful.

**Magyar Khan** · 05-11-2003, 20:58

10-12k so it seems/feels now

actually the feel reminds me of koc stats 1.15. now its waiting till the first comments here that teh devs listened to much to "certain vets".

sigh

**Tempiic** · 05-11-2003, 21:56

Ok... i stupidly ignored the possibility one could play with 35K or above a player... Which makes it hard to compare with what you consider high florin than what I meant with it longjohn... Course what you referred to would be high... while what i actually meant is low end of mid range... 15-25K back in 1.1 MTW... Oh well i give up with it... Im just unable to say what i want to say anyway.

**Alrowan** · 05-11-2003, 23:39

tempiic, i seem to understand your point, i also find it silly that people wish to go for the lower florings all the time. i prefer a mid end of mid range (20k in 1.1) its always provided me with the more exciting games, and not left it down to the who-charges-best-wins syndrome. As for getting any of these players to try change style, well i say good luck to a lot of them

**Puzz3D** · 05-12-2003, 00:06

10k plays like v1.1 at 17k
12k plays like v1.1 at 20k
15k plays like v1.1 at 25k

**spacecadet** · 05-12-2003, 00:22

Tempiic,

the reason that i prefer lower florins is that I find the game more challenging as flanking and so maneuvering are of more importance, and much tighter control is needed to prevent routing. Also, mistakes are punished more (e.g. letting a spear unit get caught too far from others will hold a long time in higher florins but get routed as it deserves in lower florin games).

Yuuki,

I felt that 12k VI games were like 15k MTW

Space

**Polish Crusader** · 05-12-2003, 00:47

I also agree that 12k feels like 15k in MTW 1.1. But i always did think that units did rout just a little too quickly in MTW 1.1. So for me, 15k in VI feels better. I think ppl still run quick enough after flanking, just not immediately.

**Magyar Khan** · 05-12-2003, 01:25

i played all games on 10k, it felt good for me. and yes baz all games were in Late

**Magyar Khan** · 05-12-2003, 01:26

another advanteg of teh lower florins settings is that u have to think twice what to upgrade and what units not to upgrade

**Puzz3D** · 05-12-2003, 02:00

Spacecadet,

I can see how it can happen that 12k v2.0 feels like 15k v1.1. In one v2.0 12k game, I took mil sgt of one less valor upgrade than I used to take in v1.1 15k games. The morale is thus the same for that unit, and it's routing characteristic is the same. I also took swiss halb, but I didn't drop the valor on them from what I use in 15k v1.1 games, so I had a unit that stood and fought a little better. My chiv knight cav also fought better because I fielded it at the same v1 that I used in 15k v1.1. The differences were very noticible to me. You do need 15K in v2.0 to feel the increased morale across all the units that you typically use.

I don't want maneuver to be more important than matchups. I'd like to play at a level where they are of about equal importance. If you have to always fight in a compact formation, it takes away a lot of the maneuver options. You're reduced to moving your whole army together as a single entity. Right now if you field v1 knights, they can operate fairly well independently.

As an example of a spear unit, you're going to need v2 Order Foot at 1156 florins, to notice any improvement in their ability to stand and fight since spears didn't get a price reduction. If you allow 1200 for 4 ranged units in a 12k game, that leaves 900 on average for each of the 12 remaining units. So, spending 1156 on a spear means cutting back on morale somewhere else.

**Krasturak** · 05-12-2003, 03:46

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Tempiic @ May 11 2003,15:56)]... Im just unable to say what i want to say anyway.

Have you tried saying 'Gah' when that happens?

Works for Krast.

**Tempiic** · 05-12-2003, 08:05

Hmmmm lets try then......Gahhhhhhh

Originally Posted by Magyar Khan

another advanteg of teh lower florins settings is that u have to think twice what to upgrade and what units not to upgrade

Hmmm I thought you were against having army selection be one of the major influences of winning a game

Originally Posted by Polish Crusader

I also agree that 12k feels like 15k in MTW 1.1. But i always did think that units did rout just a little too quickly in MTW 1.1. So for me, 15k in VI feels better. I think ppl still run quick enough after flanking, just not immediately.

Sounds like a typical 20K or 25K MTW 1.1 game

Alrowan: Good

I dunno how busy you are with VI nowadays, but please drop by and offer me a few 20K MTW 1.1 games

**Kansuke** · 05-12-2003, 09:57

Hi ALL,

Short and sweet, based on trial and error, all played in late era.

15k - Good battle where infantry are the major deceiding factor, not saying that cav are not good, oh yes btw, Lancers still rule

10k - The pendullum swings back in favour of the Cav units.

I feel that the best games are going to be around 12-13k.

If any of you are thinking of taking rush armies, your in for a nasty suprise.

A more balanced army selection is required. I won all my games taking 6 cav, 4 pavs, 6 h2h until someone came along with the following:

4 cav
2 cav archers
4 pavs
6 h2h

The only noob in those games was me, well we all noobs in Vi anyway.

Kansuke.