Turn-Based or Open Strategy

[Lehesu]

I am kind of feeling the need for another strategy game. Never liked the Civilization or Empire Earth series, although the idea was intriguing. I downloaded the Alpha Centauri demo and liked what I saw, as it gave some free reign as to what I could do, like developing my own units. However, I wasn't too good at the demo and never have really got the hang of the Civ style of play. Is there a strategy game, preferrably turn-based, that has this sense of open-endedness? I have been looking around and all I see is Civ and Total War up on the turn-based charts. Surely there is something else

[Mount Suribachi]

Lehusu, did you try the tutorial? It has a pretty good one - not sure if it comes with the demo though. I would highly, highly, recommend Alpha Centauri, its easily my favourite Civ game. It has a pretty good storyline, different ways to win, factions that have very different (but all good) playing styles, and best of all, customisable units which are limited pretty much by your own imagination. It also has a cool future in space vibe too it.

Did I mention I love SMAC?

Another favourite TBS of mine is the old Panzer General series (the hex version, not the crappy 3-d sequels).

I would give SMAC more time, any questions, just ask me.

[Bushido]

What about good old Masters of Orion 2? It's easily (imo) the best turn-based game, ever.

[hrvojej]

There are quite a few turn-based strategy games out there, so I don't know what you mean by this broad term.

For example, a few TBS games that I like:
Space empires IV
Dominions 2
Disciples 2
Age of Wonders 2

These are all very different from each other, but all good games. Also, the likes of Fallout tactics and Silent storm have turn based combat, i.e. tactical TBS. Have you ever tried Europa universalis and the like games? Those are not turn based, but they are certainly open-ended, and you can pause the action whenever you want.

[Scipio]

I know what you mean about Civ series I always had a problem with it(to dificult) but I adopted a strategy of building settlers and workers(build a lot of cities at the begining) and that brought up my economy hugely and then build a suitable army

[Lehesu]

Quote[/b] (hrvojej @ Feb. 16 2004,16:21)]There are quite a few turn-based strategy games out there, so I don't know what you mean by this broad term.

For example, a few TBS games that I like:
Space empires IV
Dominions 2
Disciples 2
Age of Wonders 2

These are all very different from each other, but all good games. Also, the likes of Fallout tactics and Silent storm have turn based combat, i.e. tactical TBS. Have you ever tried Europa universalis and the like games? Those are not turn based, but they are certainly open-ended, and you can pause the action whenever you want.

I own Disciples 2 and Fallout-Tactics...a lot of fun, those games. I tend to shy from most RTS nowadays because many , ie RON and Empire Earth, have that really stupid oversimplistic rock paper scissors thing.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Technically turn based, rather open ended; Europa Universalis 2



Louis,

[hrvojej]

If you like Fallout Tactics, keep an eye out on the new Jagged Alliance that is about to come out soon, as that's an open-ended TBS tactical game. If you like Disciples, you might want to check out Age of Wonders or Dominions, which are kind of in the same vein. And as already mentioned, if you crave for something like a Civilization but deeper, you should definitely try Europa Universalis 2 or any other game by Paradox if you haven't already.

Cheers,

[econ21]

The best empire-building game I've ever come across - aside from MTW - was Imperialism 2. It's a gem, maximising the challenges from exploration, research, production, warfare etc but minimising the micro-management (that can be a pain in Civ type games). Rather a steep learning curve, though.

I got a lot out of Heroes of Might and Magic 3 as well. More based on single scenarios (maps) than a linked campaign, but big maps could be almost comparable to Civ and MTW in scope. (There is a user-made one for the Lord of the Rings that is amazingly good). Shallow learning curve, although very rich in options.

[frogbeastegg]

I can second any recommendation for Alpha Centauri. That game is a froggy nightmare - numbers and stats galore. It took me 1 year of off and on playing to understand enough to play a game through to the end and win on the easiest difficulty, the thing is the game is so good I put the effort in to learn it rather than giving up after a month. That is a very high recommendation. I doubt it would take you a year to learn, try this guide it helped me enormously.

[Fragony]

If you are looking for a fun turn-based game I cannot recommend Silent Storm enough. It has pretty good AI, and most important, it is frigging hilarious. Your men say the most rediculous things ('he be flat like a beaver that cannot judge wind', and my favorite: 'I need a medic...pronto..I got cash'). If you can take the extreme goofiness you will have a blast with it.

[Lehesu]

I think I really want to get into Alpha Centauri, but it's so immense I don't even know how to get started Any advice?

[Fragony]

You can make it as complicated as you want. You can assign all but the most crucial tasks to your governers and just enjoy the combat and diplomacy, or you can play it as a perfectionist and control everything. It is really a learn as you go experience, part of the fun is finding out.

[Bushido]

How could I forget such classic as Steel Panthers - World at War? Hardcore tactical engagements so deep you'll drown Also, the Combat Mission serie is a superb tactical simulation covering all the different 2nd world war theatres such as eastern Europe (bring em könig tigers, rar) and north Africa.
There aren't words positive enough to correctly describe the sheer genius of the serie. The third installation brings you to north Africa. You can try to outperform the much praised Desert Fox, Erwin Rommel. You can try to stop the elusive Germans as they blitzkrieg you
The first two games of the serie, Combat Mission: Beyond the Overlord and Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin are better than the 3rd game, Combat Mission: Africa Korps.

The battle system is made of pure fun with ingenoius design. Basically, you issue your orders during the Orders Phase and the enemy does the same. Then you hit GO and watch the battle unfold for 60 seconds until you get to issue new orders. Undiluted, brilliant fun.

Seriously, anyone with some sort of knack for tactical games should try out the CM:BO alpha demo, found on their website www.battlefront.com ; it's what got me hooked in these games.

I probably should warn those who are interested that the games do not have campaign of any sort. You can play individual battles or operations, which consist of some historical mini-campaign. You can also quick generate battles with varying settings.

Come on, who wouldn't want to get his ass kicked by US Army Major in Cavalry Regiment? Or a guy who studies tactics used in the 2nd world war for living? Enlist now

[frogbeastegg]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ Feb. 20 2004,00:57)]I think I really want to get into Alpha Centauri, but it's so immense I don't even know how to get started Any advice?

Firstly check that guide I linked to before, while much of it will sail over your head if you just read the basic sections it will get you going on the right foot. Then you can come back for more advanced sections later as you want to expand your knowledge. This guide is so good it got published as an actual book, sadly unavailable in the UK. Of course the book has extra information the free version doesn't but the free version is the original...in a way this is the guide that inspired me and set my standards for my own guides. I have got a long way to go before I meet this masterpiece.

If you can get the Alien Crossfire add-on with it either separately or as a bundle in the Planetary Pack (I've got that) and start off as one of the two alien races as they are much more powerful than the other factions. You'll have a lot less to worry about, even if you do look like a fish. Play on easy and automate some tasks, basically the ones you don't want to deal with rather than any specific stuff. I found it easier to play a defensive game, sitting and expanding peacefully and guarding my own territory rather than attacking and invading. Eventually you can build the ultimate wonder, or get elected as president, or go for a score win so there is plenty of room for peaceful manoeuvre.

Finally this is a good site with some good forums. Bit hard to navigate and a lot quieter than it used to be but it should help.

[Mysterium]

I think everyone here handled all my suggestions. Age of Wonders 1 and 2 and Heroes of Might and Magic III or IV, but both of those suffer from the lack of open-ended feel. Fallout Tactics was just way too addictive for me (man, that thing screwed up my sleep schedule) but I'm a sucker for post-apocalyptic stuff. Oh, and I'm really surprised someone recommended Space Empires IV. Wonderful game, but I thought it was my own little indie gem . . .

Lehesu, SMAC is one of my favorite games of all time. I typically hate folk bragging about game skill (Yeah, well, I can beat it with my sound turned off on Expert using my nose to move the mouse and only right-clicking) but I've put enough time into SMAC to be very good at it. Frog's links are good ones, so check those out. And for the plain Alpha Centauri, no add-on, try either the Peacekeepers (they're the most balanced, no major strengths or weaknesses) or the Gaians (their early confluence with Planet turns a major obstacle into a strength). The learning curve takes a LONG time (that's a major drawback to the game) and if you don't like the CIV style, you might not like this once you learn it.

OH Take off Auto-design units and auto-prune obsolete units. That's like auto-resolve in MTW. If you leave those on, you'll never really learn what all the different unit enhacements do, and if you design/name your own units, you know what's going on (cause really, what the hell is a Trance Fusion Shard Behemoth, Mk2?)

Hey, and Froggy, if you like SMAC, which you do, and fanfiction, which I think you do, this is the greatest fanfic (for any game) I've ever read. Excepting, of course, everything on the ORG . . .

SMAC Fanfic Joe

[Lehesu]

Played the demo for SMAC and held up pretty good as the Peacekeepers. Got voted as planetary leader, those extra votes really help Probably going to buy the laptop pack, which has SMAC and the expansion with a bunch of useless games I don't want, but hey, 15 dollars? Can't beat it.

[Mysterium]

Yeah, I spotted that laptop pack at Best Buy last time I was down there. Can't beat $15. And Peacekeepers are handy for the planetary elections because of the 1 1/2 Planetary Council votes. It's always a good idea to try and get voted in early, because once someone else is in there, it's really hard to get them out. I've never seen the Leader change more than twice in one game.

Plus, if you like the world that SMAC creates, the the background they write for the different leaders/tech advances and such is just second to none. Really believable setting.

[rory_20_uk]

I liked Alpha Centuri more than civ 3 in many ways, although it was not without its failings:
Futuristic units do not have the same appeal for me as ones at least loosely based on the real world.
Odd occurences such as adding armour to planes made no difference as to the cost - build the best on all as it costs the same
The usual specials that can be built that can help to unbalance the game: the anti-sabateur tech allows you to have a very pro science society, as the downside is cancelled by the tech advance.

I liked to go for the tech guy: research early and often. Votes can be accrued by being the biggest (and usually the nastiest). Mind staple everyone all the time, be a complete bastard - you knowit makes sense

[frogbeastegg]

Quote[/b] (Mysterium @ Feb. 20 2004,17:21)]Hey, and Froggy, if you like SMAC, which you do, and fanfiction, which I think you do, this is the greatest fanfic (for any game) I've ever read. Excepting, of course, everything on the ORG . . .

SMAC Fanfic Joe

That link isn't working, I think Mount Suribachi posted it in the Mead Hall a few months ago and the page wouldn't load for me then either.


I too prefer the setting of Civ3 but Civ3 was so disappointing even the appeal of stomping people with Egyptian chariots and then sending messages demanding tribute in the name of queen Cleo couldn't keep me playing. Corruption, limitation, lack of ability to cover the whole map in cities and reap huge incomes - ick. The diplomacy was good though, but I missed being able to bribe people to vote for me. If they ever fixed the corruption problem and let you build as many cities as you like Civ3 would become interesting again.

[rory_20_uk]

Or at the very least have more variables open to user manipulation. Possibly there are people out there that like the fact that corruption makes cities past a certain point utterly pointless... but a bar, tab or something that blets people vary it would probably not be that tough for designers, and be very useful for players.

[Lehesu]

I actually like this sci-fi universe a lot better than old civ 2. Sure, the techs can be confusing, but I am getting the hang of it, and it provides an interesting gaming experience that is different than all of the historical strategies I own.

[Efrem Da King]

I have AC somewhere. Lose 80% of my games very quickly so I wouldn't count on being able to find it .


I enjoyed it. But then I put difficulty up to easy. I DON'T LIKE LOSING I only ever play easy or easiest difficulties on games no matter how good I am at them because the idea of being beaten by a comeputer makes me cry.









I therefore havn't play AC since and that was a couple of years ago. Wait. More than that.

Will have another look now.

[Efrem Da King]

Just so you know I found it, it was hidden under Mechwarrior 3.

[Mysterium]

Yah, the corruption in Civ III was just too debilitating to be enjoyable. I ended up farming other civilizations, just so that I could use their capitals like other forbidden palaces. And I HATE doing that. No matter how strategically sound, once I start beating a faction to a pulp, I have trouble letting up. Even now in MTW, I can only let a faction live if they're locked on their own little island and I don't have to look at them. Mercy ain't my strong suit.

Oh, sorry to be redundant with the post, didn't know Mount Suribachi already posted that. I went back and fixed the link, though, 'http' was in there too many times. It should work now.

[Lehesu]

GAH Ecodamage How do you fix it? Got a base pumping 4 ecodamage and the effects are being noted. Do I just have to destroy mines and other stuff? Or is their a building or something that could help it?

[Mysterium]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ Feb. 21 2004,19:28)]GAH Ecodamage How do you fix it? Got a base pumping 4 ecodamage and the effects are being noted. Do I just have to destroy mines and other stuff? Or is their a building or something that could help it?

4 isn't too much to worry about. You can build Tree Farms and Hybrid Forests, those help with eco-damage. Certain shifts to social engineering help as well, I think. Otherwise, you'll just have to cut down on how many minerals you're producing by shifting production to different squares. But I typically don't worry about eco-damage until it gets up around 20 and the fungus is destroying my improvements every turn. But then, I'm a capitalist . . . progress at any cost

[frogbeastegg]

The link still isn't working.

I remember I set up a base that grubbed tonnes of mineral each turn with the assisitance of supply crawlers. I was able to build things so fast it wasn't funny...then the whole place got wiped out in a lengthy siege by a horde of furious fungus Each turn more fungus grew, at a faster rate than my own army and reinforcement supply. Those rocket launching mushrooms are hell when there are 20 or more bombarding away each turn

[Efrem Da King]

hmm


I played the spartans. I have conquered 2 people but the second people I conquer I more destroyed cause I used chemical weapons agianst them .


I just love clicking a button saying commit atrocoty.

I got embargoed for 80 years. By everyone execpt the morganites cause I was helping them.

[rory_20_uk]

I think that there are some research options that help limit ecodamage (forget what they are). I like the extra factor that this adds to the game. Far better than the crude club of corruption that Civ 3 employes.