Bioshock non-gameplay discussion

[frogbeastegg]

I tried it again yesterday and crashed shortly after the part where I crashed before...

Which part are you getting up to? (spoiler tag if necessary)

[frogbeastegg]

EDIT: Never mind, it was a problem with some common antivirus software returning false positives.

[Crandaeolon]

Seems to be a false positive, the new version of Securom is setting off some virus scanners.

[frogbeastegg]

Heh, just what I came here to say. The news doesn't seem to have found its way onto the bioshock pages I was reading; I found it while searching for information about what the reproted trojan does.

AGV must have found the demo too tame, and set it up to scare users in a different way. Thanks a bunch. :waves fist at AGV:

Editing the alert to something tamer ...

[Ironside]

Heh, just what I came here to say. The news doesn't seem to have found its way onto the bioshock pages I was reading; I found it while searching for information about what the reproted trojan does.

AGV must have found the demo too tame, and set it up to scare users in a different way. Thanks a bunch. :waves fist at AGV:

Editing the alert to something tamer ...

AGV did ruin the demo before I could install it today though (deleted the setup files without my approval even, had another false positive a while ago). So now it's another downloading before I can see if I can run it

[Husar]

Which part are you getting up to? (spoiler tag if necessary)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I got to the part where I'm trapped in a dark room and some video from the founder of Rapture starts. IIRC Faisal said that's where the XBox 360 demo ends so maybe I made it to the end. Considering that this was a 1.84GB download and I recently read XBox live downloads are limited to some 150MBs or so(I just read that, have no XBox myself), I expected a bit more content.

Anyway, I wasn't very impressed, the demo crashed on me twice(yeah, I'm using Vista, but since this is a DX10 game it should run fine on Vista, no?), the graphics are very nice but not revolutionary IMO(maybe they are in DX10 mode) and the gameplay can be very confusing once there is some real action. And to be honest, after about 10mins the scare factor was pretty much gone. I found a lot of medipacks and a machinegun and that sort of takes the scare away, the fact that you won't have to reload after death didn't help either.

Or maybe I should switch to expert difficulty. Well, I doubt that will stop it from crashing.

[Bob the Insane]

Got the full game and it is running absolutely fine on Vista 32bit with the Nvidia 163.44 beta driver...

You have a point with the graphics... While "extremely good" (posiibly even some of the best I have seen in a shooter) they are not "revolutionary", certainly no one is going to look at the monitor, squint and ask is that live action or animation?

I was reading the release notes and they say the game is actually optimised for dual processors.. Sweet..

[Lemur]

I'm running it in XP with a 1900 videocard, dual proc. Smooth like butter at 1280x1024. The graphics are not freaky good, but the design certainly is. The sound design and voice acting are all of that and a bag of chips.

I'll be in a position to say more when I've played it for more than a couple of hours.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Yes, this is truly a wonderful game. So wonderful in fact that it DOESN'T EVEN RUN ON X800 SERIES GRAPHICS CARDS!!! Why oh why, of all the graphics cards it won't work with did it have to be the type me and my friend use!?

EDIT: Could as many of you as possible sign this petition? Apparently if it reaches 5000 signatures, the Bioshock development team will make a patch to fix the problems with X800 series cards.

http://www.petitiononline.com/BioShock/petition.html

Please do so, it's a real pain in the behind for many gamers out there.

[frogbeastegg]

Husar, you've made it to the end. The demo's supposed to transition to the usual "Buy our game, it's great!" business, then drop you back to the main menu. That puts an end to my original thought: that your PC might be having difficulty with one of the parts where it gets suddenly busy. Possibly a driver issue?

I agree - it isn't scary. Scary games aren't my cup of tea, so I'm somewhat relieved TBH.

The amount of health items it flung out was rather baffling. I’m crap at FPS type games, and I couldn’t pick up approximately half the health packs I saw because my inventory was full of them.

I'm expecting resurrection to have a cost of some sort. System Shock had the same concept; it required a certain amount of nanites (effectively the currency) to rebuild your body.



I thought the graphics were very good. :feels like some kind of provincial frog who will soon find herself gaping at the screen and going, "The pictures are moving! Witch craft!":

[Husar]

Maybe it's because I was lazy and installed the new driver over the old one without removing anything.
My PC should be good enough, I have some duo thing and a modern video thing with a lot of workspace things from Intel, NVidia and Aeneon respectively.

Anyway, just played Stalker again, now that's a nice shooter.

Does anyone know how long BioShock will be in SP? Most modern shooters seem to be over after a few hours.

[Spino]

Maybe it's because I was lazy and installed the new driver over the old one without removing anything.
My PC should be good enough, I have some duo thing and a modern video thing with a lot of workspace things from Intel, NVidia and Aeneon respectively.

Anyway, just played Stalker again, now that's a nice shooter.

Does anyone know how long BioShock will be in SP? Most modern shooters seem to be over after a few hours.

One review said it should take anywhere between 20 and 25 hours to clear...

[Ironside]

I thought the graphics were very good. :feels like some kind of provincial frog who will soon find herself gaping at the screen and going, "The pictures are moving! Witch craft!":

So... how many little sisters did you see? Found 4 (that's including the 2 that are quite hard to miss).

I agree that it felt quite easy, but then this is the beginning of the game so.

They're completely off with the subtitles in the demo and that's quite annoying, but otherwise it's good.
Too bad that most of the scare and creepyness factors wears off after the first playthrough.

[frogbeastegg]

Maybe it's because I was lazy and installed the new driver over the old one without removing anything.

That's generally an invitation to trouble.

So... how many little sisters did you see? Found 4 (that's including the 2 that are quite hard to miss).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I saw the one down on the ground where you get the radio speech about "That's a little sister."

I saw the one in the cutscene where you're semi concious after falling down from the bit where you get the first psi power.

There was one in the "Buy this game now!" section after the demo finished.

Er ... don't remember any more.

[Ironside]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I saw the one down on the ground where you get the radio speech about "That's a little sister."

I saw the one in the cutscene where you're semi concious after falling down from the bit where you get the first psi power.

There was one in the "Buy this game now!" section after the demo finished.

Er ... don't remember any more.

Hmm atleast 5 then . Didn't even think to consider your last one as it's outside the demo IMO.

Have you red or seen about were the little sisters stay while not gathering adam?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They stay inside pipes that you can see on the wall. So you don't get a good look on them, but you'll see thier glowing eyes looking at you... for a while before they crawl further in I guess.

The ones you've missed are in the right part of the room you get into after going through the corridor that gets flooded. You turn right and check the body there and on the wall to your left you should see some eyes. Took me the second find to get what those eyes were, as you can see the pipe better there.
It's also a dead cat in the left part of that room. Not common with dead pets in games.

The second one is in the resturant were the new years eve party were held, on the wall right outside the toilets, next to the phones

Lots of interesting details, too bad that it's hard to notice them all, especially on the best (first) run.

[Lemur]

I suddenly don't feel so stupid for buying BioShock via Steam -- turns out the disc version contains SecuROM, a Sony-made bit of DRM that latches onto your system and never lets go.

Of course, STALKER comes with the same malware, and I installed that from a disc, so I guess I'm no better off anyway.

DRM manages my digital rights in much the same way prison manages freedom. I understand the desire to protect one's work, but it all seems so futile. Copies show up elsewhere on the interwebs anyway, and paying customers like me have to worry about conflicting security software messing up our systems. Anybody remember the Sony rootkit fiasco? The Starforce fiasco?

Grrrrr.

-edit-

Apparently the BioShock implementation of SecuROM allows you to install the game twice. That's it. Forever. Say you have a laptop and a tower, and you install it on both, and then replace one. You're going to have to call the company, personally, to beg your case. Nice one.

-edit of the edit-

Seems I'm far from alone in being cheesed off about SecuROM in BioShock.

Even the editors of PC Gamer can't get traction once SecuROM has decided they're past their limit. Nice.

[drone]

If some of the comments on Digg and 2K forums are true, there is DRM in the freaking demo?!?!?! That makes sense.

2K just lost my business.

[Lemur]

The PC Gamer editor's blog is chilling.

All I have to do is call the number in the manual, read off the reactivation request code supplied by the activation wizard, and they'll give me an unlock code. Well, not so simple in this case—the support number for the US listed in the manual didn't work, giving me a "We cannot connect your call at this time" message. So I called the Canadian number, which went through. After four minutes on hold, I was told that the only way they'd unlock it is if I take a photo of the disc and the manual and email it to them. Wow… even Microsoft doesn’t make you do that.

Having now jumped through all their hoops hours ago, I’m currently waiting for 2K to get around to allowing me to play my legitimate copy of the game on the system of my choosing. Meanwhile, the pirates who cracked Windows Vista’s activation in a matter of days are already at work on the game, and I sincerely doubt that the BioShock copy protection wall will still be standing a week from today. And while those pirates play their ill-gotten games without a care, those of us who came by our copies legally will have to put up with draconian obstacles that will then serve no purpose whatsoever. Well done 2K, well done indeed.

Later:

It's now been more than 24 hours since I sent 2K tech support a photo of my BioShock disc and manual, and I have yet to hear from them about my code being reactivated.

[Papewaio]

Then I'm not buying it.

The only point of these is to stop piracy, and the pirates generally remove this type of software before distributing the media.

So I don't want extra software that may compromise any of my PCs or Laptops with something that is overzealous... I have MS Office for that.

[Husar]

Wow, this is getting very annoying. You have StarForce that cripples your DVD drives, SecuROM that won't let you install more than twice without sending things around the world and begging for mercy and they even included such malware in demos. I already had two DVD drives deteriorate into uselessness which was likely the fault of StarForce in at least one case.
Then there is Earth 2140 where I have to call a number that costs more than 1EUR to be able to play again(depending on how long they make me wait I'll pay for the game twice ).

On the other hand it's a good thing since I'm simply not going to buy such games. Only preorder currently is World in Conflict, but I doubt they put anything anoying in it that could ruin their prestige project(then again, you never know ).

Tsk, I was so happy when the lady on the phone gave me an activation code for my outdated Win XP beta many years ago but since then many companies seem to have adopted that mechanism and made it worse.

Guess it's time for some boycotting, I need to get out more anyway.

[Lemur]

For what it's worth, SecuROM is a rootkit. A freaking rootkit. Will Sony never learn? Here's how you can find it on your PC:

Go to your start menu. Click on "run." Enter C:\Documents and Settings\XXX\Application Data\SecuROM

Put your PC's name in place of XXX. You will also have to have selected "show hidden files and folders" under the folder options in explorer.

There is a readme text file, among other things, in this hidden folder. The text is amusing, to say the least.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THE FILES IN THIS FOLDER BECAUSE YOU MIGHT LOOSE ESSENTIAL DIGITAL RIGHTS.
READ BELOW
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Technical Information for the PC Administrator:

The files securom_v7_01.dat and securom_v7_01.bak have been created during the installation of a SecuROM protected application.
It guarantees more user convenience because the original disc does not have to be in the local drive at all times anymore.
It is necessary for copy protected CDs, demo versions and protected software downloaded from the Internet.
The file contains your licences for all products which are SecuROM protected, therefore it will not be deleted automatically.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THE FILE BECAUSE YOU MIGHT LOOSE ESSENTIAL DIGITAL RIGHTS.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The information contained in securom_v7_01.dat will not be transferred to any other computer without your permission.

This security system is connected with a MS Windows Service called "SecuROM User Access Service".
This module is started automatically when launching a protected application if the user is logged in with Windows administrator rights.
In case users do not have administrator rights we recommend to keep it running.

See www.securom.com for further information

[Xiahou]

Online activation, eh? Guess I can hold off on buying/playing Bioshock for the time being.

Once again, pirates get to have all the fun.

[Decker]

Wait. So what does it all have to do with the demo? Do I have it now cuz I've downloaded the demo ?

[Lemur]

Yup. Seems they included SecuROM in the demo, since demos get used in nefarious ways by the bad guys. Not that it will stop the bad guys, mind you, but that's their rationale. So 2K games is infecting everyone in sight with a Sony rootkit in an utterly futile attempt to slow piracy.

I predict this is going to blow up in their faces, big time.

In fairness, nobody has demonstrated that the SecuROM rootkit is as evil as the original Sony Rootkit, or StarForce, for that matter. But I really hate game companies punishing honest users by saddling our PCs with malware. It's just bad PR and bad business.

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, one of the biggest games last year, was released with no DRM, no rootkit of any sort, and I didn't see it hurting their sales. In fact, gamers on the geek boards went overboard praising the company for the choice.

2K should apologize and issue a SecuROM rootkit removal tool. Anything short of that is unacceptable.

[Decker]

How does it affect my computer as it's only the demo?

Just went reading through the Bioshock forums(skipping about 20 pages in the thread about Secrum), it looks like this is "tazering" hundreds of people badly. The conversation tho, has somewhat shifted to the fact that probably 1 in about 15 gamers or so pirate games and that the gaming companies are over reacting to this and as such, these "protection" software that come with their games and screw up everyone's regular machines, that PC gaming is dying because of it. Anybody else rummage through other forums about this? And because Bioshock was very promising in reviving PC gaming, it could be the death nil if they basically(especially 2k Games) get their heads together and realize that these measure are hurting the industry because of it.

And now I don't feel like playing the demo

[Lemur]

2K games loaded both the finished game and the demo with SecuROM. This is meant to prevent the most simplistic sort of .exe hacking. It won't work, but that's what they did.

If you installed the demo, you have installed SecuROM's rootkit. Apparently it makes AVG anti-virus very unhappy, as well as some other apps. Angry? Irritated? Let them know.

It would also be productive to let every gaming site, tech journalist or press contact know about this. If you know somebody, complain. Loudly. The more this is in the press, the more embarrassed they will be.

[Decker]

Okay, so if I uninstall the demo, does the rootkit go with it? Or does it stay?

[Lemur]

The rootkit stays. Without a removal tool, there is no safe way to get rid of it. That's one of several reasons geeks foam at the mouth and howl at the moon when you mention rootkits.

[Decker]

So it's on my comp for ever then? Well bugger that...

[Lemur]

It looks as thought 2K understands the danger of geek rage. They have changed the activation policy, and are issuing some sort of removal tool. Gads, why they even bothered with this technology in the first place is beyond me.

-edit-

Hmm, they're also claiming that SecuROM does not install a rootkit. I am suspicious ...

Does SecuROM install a root kit on my computer?

No. SecuROM DOES NOT USE any root kit technology in its implementation. SecuROM Product Activation does place a folder and registry keys on your system. These folders are used only for storage of license information and information to assist with disc authentication. Please do not modify or delete these files. Tampering with these files may result in authentication issues.

What is a root kit?

A "rootkit" can be described as software or a set of software tools intended to conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system and which can open ports to allow remote access to the system.

A "rootkit" makes it possible for viruses or other malicious programs ("malware") to hide content on a user's PC. In this way, a virus or other malware may remain undetected, even if updated anti-virus software is installed.

SecuROM DOES NOT USE any root kit technology in its implementation. SecuROM Product Activation does place a folder and registry keys on your system. These folders are used only for storage of license information and information to assist with disc authentication. Please do not modify or delete these files. Tampering these files may result in authentication issues.