Imperial Diet

[econ21]

[OOC] This thread is for players in the King of the Romans PBM to post in character public deliberations in the Imperial Diet. All out of character debate should be conducted in the OOC thread.

The Diet has two main functions: to elect a Chancellor, who manage the Empire, and to pass Edicts that will direct the Chancellor.

The Diet will be chaired by Kaiser Heinrich (GeneralHankerchief) or, in his absence, by his son, Prinz Henry (econ21).

Edicts need to be formally proposed as follows:

Edict 1.1This House directs the Chancellor to occupy Hamburg.

where 1.1 refers to the first proposed edict of the first session of the Diet.

Edicts need two seconders (who should explicitly use the word "second" when supporting a motion) before they can be put to the vote. Where edicts conflict, the one with more votes takes precedence.

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Summary of Edicts proposed in Fifth Session of Diet

(Current up to post #536)

5.1 We should seek allies in England and Russia. This will force our enemies to a two front war if they dare attack us or our ally, especially as we currently do not share borders with these nations. At the same time, the alliances should only be decided if they shall pay us tribute for it, for we are the more superior nation. (aim for barely accepted)
Proposed: Fifth Elector of Swabia
Seconded: Count Otto von Kassel, 6th Elector of Bavaria

5.2 We need to move out all superfluous troops out from the heartland and leave just enough there to keep public order. These troops should be used to reinforce our borders and fronts.
Proposed: Fifth Elector of Swabia
Seconded: Steward Maximillian Mandorf, Duke Leopold

5.3 The elimination of Milan
Proposed: Fifth Elector of Swabia
Seconded: Count Otto von Kassel, 2nd Elector of Austria

5.4 Driving Venice back to at least Ragusa, leaving them with this region and Iraklion at the most
Proposed: Fifth Elector of Swabia
Seconded: Sixth Elector of Franconia, Duke Otto

5.5 Attempt to make the Poles our vassals (without spending more than map info and 5000 florins)
Proposed: Fifth Elector of Swabia

5.6 Attempt to make Milan our vassals (without spending more than map info and 5000 florins)
Proposed: Fifth Elector of Swabia

5.7 The training of additional clergy to root out heresy and allow more of our cardinals into the college.
Proposed: Fifth Elector of Swabia
Seconded: Sixth Elector of Franconia, Count Otto von Kassel

5.8 Training of at least 2 good assassins to take care of high profile political targets
Proposed: Fifth Elector of Swabia
Seconded: Jonas von Mahren; Count Otto von Kassel

Edict 5.9 Reich will start offensive against Poland by taking Magdeburg and continuing the offensive untill either Poland sues for peace or Papal warning of excommunication is given.
Proposed: Duke Dietrich von Saxony
Seconded: Sixth Elector of Franconia, Count Otto von Kassel

Edict 5.10 Holy Roman Empire suggests an alliance to Hungary.
Proposed: Duke Dietrich von Saxony
Seconded: Sixth Elector of Franconia, Count Otto von Kassel

Edict 5.11:Sigismund der Brav is to be sent against the French armies invading Burgundy. After that he shall proceed to conquer France until a Papal warning is given. Sigismund alone shall be sent against the French, as the other generals are needed in Italy and Poland.
Proposed: Count Sigismund der Brav
Withdrawn

Edict 5.12: The Empire is to adopt a defensive posture in the west in an attempt to lead to the excommunication of France. When France is excommunicated, the posture is to switch to an offensive one - aiming at Rheims and then Paris.
Proposed: Prinz Henry
Seconded: Duke Dietrich von Saxony, Count Otto von Kassel

Edict 5.13: All Milanese forces remaining in Italy are to be destroyed.
Proposed: Count Otto von Kassel
Seconded: Duke Dietrich von Saxony, Prinz Henry

5.14 If England does not accept an Alliance on reasonable terms that favor us, we ally with Scotland instead, of course only if they are more reasonable than the English.
Proposed: 5th Elector of Swabia
Seconded: Count Otto von Kassel, Steward Maximillan Mandorf

Edict 5.15: The large Milanese army outside Florence will be destroyed. After this is accomplished, we will seek to establish a ceasefire with Milan, so long as one can be obtained without cost to the Reich.
Proposed: Steward Maximillian Mandorf
Seconded: Duke Leopold, Dietrich Von Saxony

Edict 5.16: The nobility of our foes are subject to assassination.
Proposed: 4th Elector of Bavaria
Seconded: Emperor Heinrich; 5th elector of Swabia

Edict 5.17: Any aggression via the Papacy towards the Reich will result in an offensive against Rome via our field armies and the Pope will be subject to the proposed Edict 5.16.
Proposed: 4th Elector of Bavaria
Seconded: Count Otto von Kassel

Edict 5.18 - Every city and castle of all levels in the Empire are to have built at least 1 type of Economic help in that city, in 5 years limit
Proposed: Jobst von Salza
Seconded: Jonas von Mahren

Edict 5.19: All agent training is to be suspended in order to cut back on royal spending
Proposed: 4th Elector of Swabia
Seconded: Duke Leopold

Edict 5.20: All cities with access to the sea must build the needed facilities to encourage and boost commerce.
Proposed: Jonas von Mahren
Seconded: 6th Elector of Austria; Count Sigismund

Edict 5.21: The Reich will contact those nations with whom we are not at war, and have no direct conflicts of interests with, and attempt to improve our diplomatic relationships, with florins if necessary.
Proposed: Jonas von Mahren
Seconded: 6th Elector of Austria

Edict 5.22 we send diplomates to gather good relations with other nations... short of the spending of Florines on them giving money to peoples when we need it is not a wise decision...
Proposed: 6th Elector of Bavaria

Edict 5.23: during the term of the next chanceler... the reich sizes Magdeburg and/or Bresalu... to provide a buffer zone and future launch sites for invasion agianst Poland
Proposed: 5th Elector of Austria
Seconded: Duke Leopold, 5th Elector of Swabia

Edict 5.24: The future Chancellor will avoid excommunication by Pope Gregory by following Papal cease and desist orders to the letter.
Proposed: Duke Leopold
Seconded: Maximillian Mandorf, Dietrich Von Saxony

Edict 5.25: Duke Leopold is to be put at the head of an army large enough to seize and hold Zagreb.
Proposed: Duke Leopold
Seconded: Maximillian Mandorf, 6th Elector of Austria

Edict 5.26: If Venice has not fallen until the events of Edict 5.25 have passed Duke Leopold is to be given enough men to assault and conquer the city of Venice.
Proposed: Duke Leopold
Seconded: Maximillian Mandorf, Dietrich Von Saxony

Edict 5.27: The spy Sifridus von Swabia is to be sent to the vicinity of Budapest. If he can infiltrate the city without a considerable risk for his life he should do so. Otherwise it will suffice he is active in the countryside surrounding Budapest.
Proposed: Duke Leopold
Seconded: 5th Elector of Swabia, Maximillian Mandorf

Edict 5.28: To prevent Hungarian aggression against the Austrian capital Vienna it's garrison has to kept at a minimum of six units, capable of defending the city.
Proposed: Duke Leopold
Seconded: 6th Elector of Austria

Edict 5.29: The chancellor shall endeavor to send emissaries (without needing to train new ones) to contact other nations we have no contacts with to obtain alliances, and trade rights. Our payment shall be no more than map information and he shall aim to make all contacts pay appropriately for spending our time and efforts on them.
Proposed: 5th Elector of Swabia
Seconded: 6th Elector of Austria, Dietrich Von Saxony

Edict 5.30: As a demonstration of the price of betrayal and to send a message to all of Europe that the Reich will not be defied, when the city of Venice is taken the populace will be exterminated.
Proposed: Count Otto
Seconded: Duke Leopold; 5th Elector of Swabia

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:
1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.
Proposed: Steward Maximillan Mandorf
Seconded: Count Fredericus von Hamburg; Duke Dietrich von Saxony

Charter Ammendment 5.2 (revised): Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose THREE House edicts per Diet provided that they have previously securing the backing of two other members of their House.
Proposed: Prinz Henry
Seconded: Duke Dietrich von Saxony, Count Otto von Kassel

Charter Amendment 5.3: This Amendment revises several Game Rules to keep them updated and prevent future confusions. The following Rules are revised as listed.

All lines with strikethroughs will be permanently removed.

Rule 2.4 is revised to state: 2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

Rule 3.7 is revised to state: 3.7 Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

Rule 5.2 is revised to state: Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

Rule 6.4 will have the following words deleted from it “get a permanent +1 influence and”

Rule 6.6 is revised to state: 6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.

Proposed: Steward Mandorf
Seconded: Prinz Henry; Duke Leopold
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Prinz Henry: Pray, silence, my Lords, for the opening of the first session of the Imperial Diet! There will be a three day period of debate for the proposing and seconding of edicts. After that, there will be a 24 hour period of voting (starting Thursday 6pm UK time).

Normally, there will be also be an election of Chancellor. However, this time, I believe my father, Kaiser Heinrich, wishes to exercise his right to assume the office. We eagerly await a speech from him, setting out his plan for the Empire, so as to frame our debates.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich: Thank you Prinz Henry, you are correct to assume that I will exercise my right as Emperor to personally take command of the Holy Roman Empire for a ten-year period as Chancellor. Once my reign has ended, we shall of course hold our normal elections for Chancellor, but that is a long time away. The matters to discuss are the ones of the present.

We need land, people. The four Dukes have told me so, and who am I to not satisfy my subjects? There are several independent cities around us, such as Hamburg, Florence, Stettin, and Prague, to name a few. It would be mutually beneficial to them as well as us for them to be placed under the benevolent rule of the Holy Roman Empire.

I propose (with the Diet's approval, of course) that my reign be one of expansion. Once these cities are under control, then the people of all the world shall fear the Empire once again!

Special emphasis must be placed on the capture of Florence. For too long have Rome and her Italian allies thumbed their noses at us. An unstoppable army, commanded by the Kaiser himself, conquering a city that close to Rome will make the Pope rightfully shudder at our power.

Our conquest of the independent settlements shall satisfy our financial needs, but I will be sending diplomats far and wide to secure trade rights with all the world. In addition, I have heard that our merchants wish to go into foreign lands in order to take control of resources and sell them to our people. This, if properly implanted, will significantly boost our treasury, which will be a boon for future building projects.

I shall propose a series of edicts shortly, but do not want this Diet bored to death by the sound of their Emperor's voice. Let someone else take the floor. I hereby declare this session of the Diet... open. *bangs gavel*

[econ21]

Prinz Henry: Here, here! God save the Kaiser! Long live the King of the Romans!

I am delighted to support my father's plan to bring the rebellious cities around us into the warm embrace of Empire. As well as Florence, I would advocate prioritising the occupation of Hamburg. I fear if we are slow, the Danes may steal it from us. I fear no man, but the Danes have terrorised Europe for several hundred years. We must not let them expand south or the consequences may be grave for our Empire.

I would also urge the Dukes and Stewards to plan the development of their settlements for coming period. Cities should consider developing barracks to house militia at no extra cost. For Staufen, I believe key priorities are a good road network, for rapid movement of troops and merchandise, and the development of farms to foster both economic and population growth. I will set out these priorities more explicitly before this session of the Diet closes on Friday and urge the other Dukes to do likewise for their realms.

One final matter - I believe good relations with the Papacy will be crucial to our success. I propose:

Edict 1.1: The Empire will send a diplomat to Rome, to establish there a permanent residence. He will reguarly gift florins to the Papacy to allow it to carry out its holy work and, incidentally, strengthen our relations with the Vatican.

Noble lords, the Pope's word carries great weight in the Councils of Europe and indeed in the streets of our cities - we would defy him at our peril. We cannot risk being a pariah among the faithful. Indeed, such is the religious fervour of the people of Christendom, I believe we may be able to mobilise it to smite our godless enemies. The Muslims have recently taken Jerusalem. This is a dark time for the people of God. We have set ourselves the goal of restoring Jerusalem to our Holy Roman Empire. If we have the backing of the Pope, all the great Christian nations of Europe may lend support to us in this quest.

[Ignoramus]

OOC: Don't you mean edict, econ?

Swabian Elector: The Kaiser is right! Recent rebellions have weakened the Empire; we must reconquer these lost lands.

I propose that the castle of Metz be taken with all speed. We cannot allow the Burgundians' rebellion to go unpunished. I say that we march against them immediately. For, if the French were to seize this most valuable stronghold, who knows what havoc they could do? I depise the despicable French who are to despised most of all. The weak French kings cannot rule Paris itself let alone France, but we should not give these weaklings even the sniff of a chance to seize a valuable fotress on our borders.

As to whose responsibilty its capture is assigned, I say that Swabia should undertake this noble task.

Edict 1.2: The Empire shall send an army to capture the castle at Metz within 5 turns to establish a strong border with the Kingdom of France.

[Lucjan]

Dietrich turns to face the Swabian side of the diet. Don't you think you're being a bit hasty? With William currently gifting the French with headache after headache thanks to his conquest of England, I think such a swift conquest of Metz may be unmerited, and place other sections of the Empire at peril. We have strong enemies all around, and focusing too hastily on one section of the empire places us all at risk.

I've thought much of the current situation, our standing with the Pope, and what may be done to bring us all into greatter prosperity. In that respect I propose the following edicts for review by the diet.

The Danes have harried and hassled Europe over the past centuries and proven their worth as warriors and raiders, but have recently come to a stall. Their current king, I believe, has come into some amount of wisdom in his years and may be keen to alter Denmark's attitude towards the rest of the world. But there is no guarantee that he will be able to control all men of influence in his still somewhat barbaric nation. In that respect, I propose the following.

Edict 1.3 - The House of Franconia instructs the chancellor to immediately besiege Hamburg with the army north of Frankfurt. I, Dietrich von Saxony could arrive to lead the army within 4 years time (2 turns), to ensure the success of our endeavours.

I will not disappoint, nor will the results of this conquest. Hamburg will provide us with a port in the north, block the more zealous Danes from southern expansion, and, if they cannot be controlled, at the very least provide us with a forward, easily defensive position against their aggressions. It also opens us up to the possibility of later deciding what to do with the Germans of Magdeburg and Stettin. Both cities worth bringing into the Imperial fold.

To the south, we have the issue of Bologne and the Italian city states. Kaiser Heinrich is currently in Bologne but I fear he may shortly become seen as an unwanted German guest in a land of Italian houses. In that respect, I feel it would benefit us to secure, at least for now, peaceful relations with the city state of Venice. Lieing directly between Bologne and the Duchy of Austria, Venice will be pivotal in the safety of the Kaiser himself. Once we can cement our standing with Venice, Florence becomes a viable option for conquest, more properly educating the neighboring would-be Italian powers to the level of German strength and authority. Therefore.

Edict 1.4 - - The House of Franconia instructs that a diplomat be trained and sent to secure both trade rights and an alliance with the city state of Venice.

The Kaiser's safety rests on this alliance. As Venice is powerful, and were they to bring up arms against him in Bologne, the rest of Italy would surely follow suit. They may be independant of each other, but an Italian is an Italian, they all claim the same lineage and they all jealously covet the same resources, antagonize one and you antagonize his neighbor.

Not far north of Italy lie the hereditary lands of the House of Austria and the House of Bavaria. Both comprised of noble and honest men, and both gifted with strong natural resources. But in natural strength comes outside jealousy, outside defiance.

Bavaria, in particular, lies in the heart of our Holy Roman Empire , but even so is taunted with the existance of the independant Czechs in Bohemia on their border. Eventually these people will have to be taught that independance is not something that should be used as a taunting gesture towards your betters. I suggest then, that the following be done.

Edict 1.5 - The House of Franconia instructs the Chancellor to scout out the lands of Bohemia, and to infiltrate their city with our spies. If possible, its siege should begin before the next meeting of this diet.

Yet further east comes the question of Austrian protection. While the Danube provides us a strong natural defence against invaders, Vien still lies significantly outside the reach of any swift reinforcements from the Imperial heartlands. It will, therefore, be important to establish some manner of keeping a closer watch on our Hungarian neighbors in the east, so that the river becomes our watchman, and not our own limitation. We must also be careful that we are not blind to the actions of Venice or the Byzantines in the south. In that respect, I propose the following.

Edict 1.6 - The House of Franconia instructs the Chancellor to establish watchtowers along the Danube near the border with Hungary, and near Austria's southern border.

However, we must not forget that the west is also an integral part of this Empire, and I hope my earlier comments of caution have not shut the ears of the House of Swabia to my proposals. I realise the importance of Metz to the Empire and to keeping those wretched French dogs at bay, but I fear only that your proposal is not flexible enough to allow the Chancellor the potential leeway he may need to ensure a proper defence of Metz after it is taken. Being so swift in taking it before the French could instead place us in a weakened position against a large and fresh French army. Though I do support the initial cause. So I make the following edict available for the diets discussion.

Edict 1.7 - The House of Franconia instructs the Chancellor to prepare a force capable of taking Metz by the end of his term.

After Metz has been secured, we can give more thought to solidifying our border with the Italians by capturing Bern.

At the last, I must reiterate that I am all in favor of the Kaiser's proposal of expansion for the safety and strength of the Empire. But we must not forget that expanding too quickly leaves us weakened at home, and we must be careful in our early calculations, so as not to stretch ourselves thin. There are many people all around us that may not be as peaceful or trustworthy as we desire. Until we can afford to swiftly field the vast armies required to put such treacherous dogs to the sword, we must be vigilant and cautious. The conquest of Hamburg, Prague, and Metz by the end of the Kaiser's term as Chancellor and the parallel strengthening of the rest of the Empire during this process will provide us with the building blocks we'll need to turn the Empire into the leading power of Europe, and the leader of all Christendom.

Ah, and, Kaiser Heinrich, if you will, next time you see your lovely daughter, Princess Agnes, extend her my greetings and good tidings. I hope her stay in Bavaria is treating her well. Her presence in the capital is sorely missed.

Dietrich sits, and amidst the diets debate talks quietly over things with the other electors of Franconia.

[Warluster]

Swabian Elector- I propose that we should take an settlement for the good doing of our EMpire
Edict 1.8-We take Antwerp in 15 turns
OOC-Is that hwo ya do it?

[pevergreen]

Lothar coughs quietly, hushing the Diet

My dear friends, two responses here.

I have noticed in Prinz Henry's update, that Charter Amendment 1.1 has not been seconded, does it need to be? If so, I second it.

The second proposed Charter Amendment, is also named Charter Amendment, an understandable oversight, as im sure my Prinz would have worked many hours over the scribes records to summerise this Diet.

Edict 1.22: The House of Swabia requests that Florence become a Free Imperial City, owing allegience to no Duke, but only to the Kaiser himself.

I would like an amendment to this Edict, so it may read as follows.

Edict 1.22: The House of Swabia requests that Florence become a Free Imperial City, until the next meeting of the Imperial Diet, where it shall, upon vote, or direction Kaiser, be gifted to a house. If the Diet can not reach an agreement or the Kaiser is unwilling to give it to any particular house, it shall remain under Imperial control, owing allegience to no Duke, but only to the Kaiser himself.

[Kagemusha]

Fifth elector of Swabia stands up and greets his fellow noblemen:

"Becouse of the importance that Metz is to securing our Western border.I would like to propose
Edict 1.23 Suggestion for passive siege on Metz.

I firmly believe that instead of building up our forces in order to capture Metz.I suggest that we will surround it swiftly with our current forces in Staufen without attempting to assault it,but rather let it starve out.This way will deny the treacherous French the option to get it before the Empire. We can build additional forces ofcourse to support the siege,but in my opinion the siege should be started as soon as possible.

Fifth Elector of Swabia

[pevergreen]

Lothar stands as soon as the Elector starts to sit, to some he seems to be fuming with anger but to those that know him, he is laughing to himself.

Surely my good friend, you could not ask for a simple amendment? That makes 3 Edicts to my count of capturing Metz. Surely this township does not hold the Holy Grail

Lothar turns around quickly stifling the laughter of his fellow Austrians

Thank you, that is all.

[Kagemusha]

Fifth elector stands up and replies. I have heard about the wierd sense of humour of Austrians before. Since Edict 1.2 was withdrawn and Edict 1.7 has different stand then ours. Though we dont think amending an edict that proposes different entirely method of action is plausible. Maybe the Austrians see it that way,but then they are also known for courting their own sisters.

Fifth elector of Swabia

[pevergreen]

You bas..The rest is stifled as the entire house of Austria has to be restrained

A few minutes later

Lothar Van Austria
You ignorant Swabians, your all the same. Proposing Edicts proposing to capture the same settlement is not doing the Empire any good!

Prinz Henry or Kaiser Heinrich, I demand this Swabian be repremanded for his comments, we must have some level of civility in this Diet.

[TinCow]

I promise to allocate settlements based on geographic location, as well as previous ownership of the settlement if it is taken from our hands. In addition, I shall attempt to keep the distribution of these settlements fairly even so that at all times one House is not overly large or small. I hereby swear, in front of the Diet, that you may impeach me if I break this promise.

Charter Amendment 1.1: Upon escalation to the position of Kaiser, the previous oath must be stated in front of the Diet.

Kaiser Heinrich, I laud the sentiment behind your oath, but I am highly sceptical of its practicality. In order for what you say to work, the Reich must expand in all directions at once and at a relatively even pace. Such a policy will demand starting wars where they are not needed or wanted and risk the security of the entire realm. Is it not the wisest practice to devote the majority of our efforts to defeating one or two enemies at a time, particularly when our resources are minimal, as they are now?

Say we find ourselves at war with no nation but France. Strategy would dictate that we concentrate great efforts in subduing the French and acquiring their lands. Yet, this would lead to expansion that is only geographically contiguous with the House of Swabia. Would you then insist that wars be started with the Danes, Hungarian, and Milanese in order to create even distributions? If not, would you end up giving Paris to the House of Austria?

Mein Kaiser, I thank you for the intentions behind your oath, but I urge you to revoke it. It is a flawed creation and can only cause strife for the Reich, the very thing you seek to avoid. I also firmly oppose Charter Amendment 1.1. It is bad enough that our current wise Kaiser has sworn this oath. It will be a travesty of historical proportions if all future Kaisers are forced to abide by it as well.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich: I beg your sincere pardon, dear Electors, for my absence of late. I was tending to matters of the state.

As a general observer, it is clear to me that the Diet does not share my ambitions about expanding east. While this disappoints me, I will nevertheless go along with its decisions.

Gentlemen, the question is no longer whether we anger the Pope by going after another Christian nation. Our successes in the first half of my term combined with the agressive expansion programs of the factions surrounding us have prevented that. The question is now which nation we attack, and how much do we incur the Pope's wrath?

It seems as if the Diet is pushing for an attack on Milan more than any other nation. Fine. But must we limit ourselves? Poland currently blocks our path eastward and Venice south. You know that eventually we will come into conflict with them if we seek to regain the Empire's glory. In the previous session we all agreed that this alliance with Venice was temporary at best. Yet now you seek to make that alliance more solid? You seek to align with Poland yet at the same time push for eastward expansion? Make up your minds, dear Electors!

I second Edicts 2.8, 2.9, and 2.10.

I yield the floor.

[IvarrWolfsong]

Cardinal Peter stands and clears his throat. He seems ready to speak then stops and picks a piece of lint from his vestment and drops it to the floor, watching as it slowly descends to earth...

My good lords...

Let me first address the matter of the Conversion of Stettin. I will happily ammend my proposition! I thank the Lord that men such as our Prince sit in this hall. His gracious ammendment is more than I could have hoped for.

Let 2.8 read: "At least two priest shall be recruited from our dioceses and accompany Eusebius von der Pfalz and Peter Scherer, Cardinal, to the region of Stettin to begin readying the populace for acceptance into the Church of Rome."

As to the outburst of Herr Mandorf, he knows not what he speaks... perhaps a fever. I shall take his blasphemous words as an emotional outburst of a man not well... and not as the type of heretical speech that might cause a man to be put to the question.

I understand that the ability to speak freely here is of the utmost importance... the ability of this ruling body depends on frank and truthful oration. However, I will not sit here and listen to Our Holy Father be abused and debased by men who speak with rage in their eyes and wrath in their hearts. Before Hildebrand began reforming the Church, vice and immorality were rampant... why the "Bishop" of Nuremburg was not only married, but he was married to TWO women at the same time! Sodomites, freebooters and half-wit court fops could be Bishops if they had enough gold! Bishops actively warred on one another at the whim of their Princes because it was the Princes who apointed them. His Holiness has re-established order and righteousness among the clergy.

And know that when you speak to election as illegitimate you insult my office directly. Do you feel the College to be invalid? Am I and my fellow Cardinals conspirators in this vast criminal enterpise that is Pope Gregory's reign? Are you, Maximillian Mandorf, saying that you are more fit to elect the pontiff than a college of men who have embraced the Word throughout their lives? Men who have not done murder, who have spurned the pleasures of the flesh fro the ecstacy of the soul, who have who have given up their familial rights to join into the family of the Church?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Cardinal Peter, if you proceed with this amendment to Edict 2.8, then I will withdraw my support. Religion is important, yes, but I do not want to spend an unnecessary amount of money on the conversion of Stettin. Do you consider yourself not up to the task of preaching the Word of God alone?

[OverKnight]

Otto rises to speak again:

I will be brief as I have already taken enough of this assembly's time. I second edict 2.9 and 2.10. These are sensible precautions that can be accomplished when more pressing matters are not present.

Mein Kaiser, I apologize if the direction that this Diet has taken displeases you. However, you have not proposed any edicts yourself, and I'm not aware of any rules that would prohibit you from doing so. If you have a specific plan in mind, let us know. Your voice would carry great influence in this council!

Thank you my Lords.

Otto takes his seat.

[econ21]

Prinz Henry: Voting on edicts is now open:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=78296

In view of my father's intervention, I do wish to discuss whether we need to recruit more priests. Be in no doubt, fellow Electors, this issue is not about Stettin. It is much wider than that. A group of missionaries, tempered by experience in Stettin, will be a powerful asset to the Republic. I envisage sending them on, further east, to achieve more successes converting heathens. And ultimately, I see sending them to the Holy Land to prepare for our arrival there.

The issue relates to Maximillan's outburts and Cardinal Scherer's responses. The Pope acts as a restraint on the action of all god-fearing nations. The question is how do we respond to this? Do we ignore it and risk the wrath of all our fellow Catholics? I see no benefits to ignoring the Papacy, only risks and costs. That is one reason why I do not support any unprovoked war on our Catholic neighbours. And certainly not in this Diet, where the argument for a specific war has not been made.

The alternative is that we use the institution of the Papacy, by gaining influence with the Pope. This would be done directly by regular contributions as I proposed in the last Diet. And indirectly, by promoting our own Cardinals to positions of influence, as I have advocated may happen through sending many missionaires to Stettin and other godless places. If Cardinal Scherer achieves quick dramatic results in Stettin, his reputation for piety will rise and this may ultimately propell him into the Preferati or even beyond. Moreover, the young priests we recruit will also gain in stature and may join him as Cardinals, immune to heresy and capable of influencing the election of the future Pontiffs.

My own view is that we should use the Papacy, not ignore it. The rewards to working with Rome are substantial - for example, we gain the ability to launch crusades on our enemies and on infidels. With the Pope on our side, any would be invaders will be stalled or ostracised.

But if we are to use the Papacy it will cost us some coin. Regular gifts of around 100 florin every two years; the upkeep of a few priests. Electors, these are not large sums and it would be penny pinching if you vote for ostracisation for fear of spending a few hundred florin per annum. Religion has become a powerful force in the world of men - we ignore it at our peril.