Imperial Diet

[SwordsMaster]

As a Kurfurst I will support edict 1.20 A wise decision, my emperor. It is most appropriate to take inspiration in the peoples that whose deeds have allowed us to be Rome.

[pevergreen]

I promise to allocate settlements based on geographic location, as well as previous ownership of the settlement if it is taken from our hands. In addition, I shall attempt to keep the distribution of these settlements fairly even so that at all times one House is not overly large or small. I hereby swear, in front of the Diet, that you may impeach me if I break this promise.

My noble lords, as a fleeting thought, let us presume this is a hypothetical, that the Kingdom of France and the City State of Milan have both declared war on us, and are pushing the House of Swabia backwards. If the noble and honourable House of Austria were to conquer some rebel lands to the east, therefore, having it gifted to them, via the location clause, but Swabia could be down to their last Castle, what would happen then? Would you call an emergency Diet to authorise the transference of settlements, so that the House of Swabia could continue to exist?

I seek only clarification noble friends.

Also put my name down as a Second for Edict 1.20
The unremarkable man sits back down, looking pleased with himself

[DMu]

Nameless elector from Austria submits the following:

Modification to Edict 1.12: Vienna should be protected as soon as possible (or feasible) by 1 to 2 units of missile troops (peasant archers or better).

Modification to Edict 1.9: Withdrew

Modification to Edict 1.10: The available spy in the Prague region should infiltrate the city and bring back to the Reich info on a daily basis.

Daily Voting:

Edict 1.13: Seconded
Edict 1.14: Suggest the following amendment: The diplomat should establish trade rights with Poland and Hungary, and friendly relations with only Poland. We might want to destroy Hungary later. Hence no alliance with the Huns.
Edict 1.15: Nay (only Dukes and count can suggest building queues?)
Edict 1.16: seconded
Edict 1.17: Nay
Edict 1.18: seconded
Edict 1.19: seconded
Edict 1.20: seconded

[Grande Orso]

The last Swabian Kurfurst stands up. While silent until this moment, many have noticed that he has been busy writing continously on a scroll of paper since the beginning of the gathering

*clears throat*... ahem... if I may interrupt and address the diet...

His young face and the uncertainty in his voice are proof of his lack of seniority in the diet and of experience in the field of politics

*clears throat again*... Chancellor Heinrich, Prinz Henry, most honourable members of this Imperial diet. We have almost reached the end of the second day of deliberations here in Frankfurt, and I would like to put forward a couple of procedural matters, if I may, that will ease the upcoming voting procedures.

*unrolls his scroll and squints his eyes, barely making out his own handwriting* ... Edict 1.10 proposed by the Kurfurst of the House of Austria (DMu) advocates the same actions as Edict 1.5 proposed by Dietrich von Saxony, Steward of the House of Franconia (Lucjan). I also recon that in the same fashion, Edict 1.14 proposed by the Kurfurst of the House of Austria (pevergreen) advocates almost the same actions as Edict 1.19 proposed by Dietrich von Saxony, Steward of the House of Franconia (Lucjan).
*visibly embarassed* I cannot claim to be an expert on the procedures of this institution, but I would suggest for the interested parties to consider these observations, as to make the voting procedures easier for all of us, and not to create redundancies in the edicts that this Imperial council will enact. *rolls the scroll back up*

Since most edicts proposed by this diet have already received two or more seconders, I shall not take a stand on any particular matter at the moment, but I would like to invite the people gathered here today to think about the following:
*clears throat again* Currently this diet is suggesting for the conquering of Hamburg to the North, Prague to the East, Florence in the South, Metz to the West and possibly also the settlements of Antwerp and Bern. While these are clearly honourable undertakings, I would like to warn the diet, even with my little experience in these matters of state, that these undertakings will come at the cost of numerous lives, and may leave our armies at less than full strength. Moreover, this increase in territories will make us more liable to incursions from belligerant foreigners, and, less capable to defend ourselves. While it has been said that attack is the best defense, I would encourage this diet and the Emperor to think cautiously about such aggressive expansionary policies that may leave us short in florins and weak in military power.

Thank you for your attention, and sorry for the interruption

The Kurfurst sits down, and sighs of relief for having been able to gather the courage to speak on behalf of his people in front of many experienced members of the diet

[pevergreen]

I have learnt, fellow Electors, that Prinz Henry plans to compile the proposed Edicts and their seconders, sometime tonight. With this compiled list, hopefully the empires actions can be thoguht out more wisely.

I, Lothar Von Austria, thanks the Prinz for compiling such a document.

[Ignoramus]

Swabian Elector: My fellow electors, I have noticed the enthusiasm in which many of you have put forward your proposals, however, the Diet's time is limited, so I propose the following:

Edict 1.21: Each elector is only allowed to put forward 3 edicts to the Diet. Dukes are allowed 5, while the Chancellor has no limit.

Also, my fellow electors, I propose the following:

Edict 1.22: The House of Swabia requests that Florence become a Free Imperial City, owing allegience to no Duke, but only to the Kaiser himself.

[OverKnight]

Gunther, Third Elector of Bavaria addresses the diet:

I will be brief so that no one will propose an edict to limit me to less than three comments a session.

The elector holds for a reaction, is taken aback by the silence of the Diet, and resumes.

Ah, um. . .Elector of Swabia. . .I believe what you propose, edict 1.21, is an amendment to our charter and would require a 2/3 majority to pass. I do not see the need for it, each edict will be judged on its merit through seconding and voting. A further, and somewhat confusing, restriction is not necessary. I will not second this edict.

As for edict 1.22, I will not address this. Others wiser than I have already commented on similar requests.

Thank you milords.

[econ21]

[Prinz Henry]: I have posted a list of edicts and their seconders (see first post of this thread).

[pevergreen]

Lothar coughs quietly, hushing the Diet

My dear friends, two responses here.

I have noticed in Prinz Henry's update, that Charter Amendment 1.1 has not been seconded, does it need to be? If so, I second it.

The second proposed Charter Amendment, is also named Charter Amendment, an understandable oversight, as im sure my Prinz would have worked many hours over the scribes records to summerise this Diet.

Edict 1.22: The House of Swabia requests that Florence become a Free Imperial City, owing allegience to no Duke, but only to the Kaiser himself.

I would like an amendment to this Edict, so it may read as follows.

Edict 1.22: The House of Swabia requests that Florence become a Free Imperial City, until the next meeting of the Imperial Diet, where it shall, upon vote, or direction Kaiser, be gifted to a house. If the Diet can not reach an agreement or the Kaiser is unwilling to give it to any particular house, it shall remain under Imperial control, owing allegience to no Duke, but only to the Kaiser himself.

[Kagemusha]

Fifth elector of Swabia stands up and greets his fellow noblemen:

"Becouse of the importance that Metz is to securing our Western border.I would like to propose
Edict 1.23 Suggestion for passive siege on Metz.

I firmly believe that instead of building up our forces in order to capture Metz.I suggest that we will surround it swiftly with our current forces in Staufen without attempting to assault it,but rather let it starve out.This way will deny the treacherous French the option to get it before the Empire. We can build additional forces ofcourse to support the siege,but in my opinion the siege should be started as soon as possible.

Fifth Elector of Swabia

[pevergreen]

Lothar stands as soon as the Elector starts to sit, to some he seems to be fuming with anger but to those that know him, he is laughing to himself.

Surely my good friend, you could not ask for a simple amendment? That makes 3 Edicts to my count of capturing Metz. Surely this township does not hold the Holy Grail

Lothar turns around quickly stifling the laughter of his fellow Austrians

Thank you, that is all.

[Kagemusha]

Fifth elector stands up and replies. I have heard about the wierd sense of humour of Austrians before. Since Edict 1.2 was withdrawn and Edict 1.7 has different stand then ours. Though we dont think amending an edict that proposes different entirely method of action is plausible. Maybe the Austrians see it that way,but then they are also known for courting their own sisters.

Fifth elector of Swabia

[pevergreen]

You bas..The rest is stifled as the entire house of Austria has to be restrained

A few minutes later

Lothar Van Austria
You ignorant Swabians, your all the same. Proposing Edicts proposing to capture the same settlement is not doing the Empire any good!

Prinz Henry or Kaiser Heinrich, I demand this Swabian be repremanded for his comments, we must have some level of civility in this Diet.

[OverKnight]

The Third Elector of Bavaria attempts to step between the feuding parties:

Peace my lords! This is a chamber of government not a Tavern! If you don't like the edicts don't second or vote for them! Don't resort to base insults or we will accomplish nothing here.

The elector looks warily around hoping that calm will be restored.

[pevergreen]

How would you like it if a young upstart started insulting your sisters?
This is an outrage!

[Kagemusha]

Fifth elector of Swabia replyes

We are not insulting Emperors daughter. Austrians tryed to make our proposition laughable and we only responded based on the edict 2.11. made by third elector of Austria. Which in my wiev is lot more insulting towards the daughter of Emperor, then our joke about the Austrians.Austrians shouldnt start making jokes about others,if they cant stand one themselves. We will not further comment the incident and place the feud for the Emperor to judge.

Fifth Elector of Swabia

[TinCow]

I promise to allocate settlements based on geographic location, as well as previous ownership of the settlement if it is taken from our hands. In addition, I shall attempt to keep the distribution of these settlements fairly even so that at all times one House is not overly large or small. I hereby swear, in front of the Diet, that you may impeach me if I break this promise.

Charter Amendment 1.1: Upon escalation to the position of Kaiser, the previous oath must be stated in front of the Diet.

Kaiser Heinrich, I laud the sentiment behind your oath, but I am highly sceptical of its practicality. In order for what you say to work, the Reich must expand in all directions at once and at a relatively even pace. Such a policy will demand starting wars where they are not needed or wanted and risk the security of the entire realm. Is it not the wisest practice to devote the majority of our efforts to defeating one or two enemies at a time, particularly when our resources are minimal, as they are now?

Say we find ourselves at war with no nation but France. Strategy would dictate that we concentrate great efforts in subduing the French and acquiring their lands. Yet, this would lead to expansion that is only geographically contiguous with the House of Swabia. Would you then insist that wars be started with the Danes, Hungarian, and Milanese in order to create even distributions? If not, would you end up giving Paris to the House of Austria?

Mein Kaiser, I thank you for the intentions behind your oath, but I urge you to revoke it. It is a flawed creation and can only cause strife for the Reich, the very thing you seek to avoid. I also firmly oppose Charter Amendment 1.1. It is bad enough that our current wise Kaiser has sworn this oath. It will be a travesty of historical proportions if all future Kaisers are forced to abide by it as well.

[Ituralde]

Conrad von Schüsselen has been sitting quiet for the last few minutes. Apparently recovering from his seizure earlier, but also delieberatly refraining from joining into the game started by the Fourth Elector of Austria.
With tensions running high, he stands up quickly and spreads his arms wide:

Gentlemen! Gentlemen!

Surely there is no need to let this folly erupt into a full out feud between our two esteemed Houses. Our charmed princess Agnes should not be bothered to be the point of friction between two of our Duchies.

Conrad looks at the Emperor and bows deeply

First, let me ask pardon for the rudeness done unto your daughter by the mistake of one of our Electors. He has quickly withdrawn his edict, because he noticed his error. I don't know what has transpired in Vienna to lead the Elector to this oppinion but his statements were never our intention. Rest assured that we will not tolerate such behaviour and punish him internally.

His gaze travels onward to Prinz Henry offering another bow, if not as deep as the one for the Emperor, still with the required reference:

And I would also like your pardon that our Elector has insulted the noble Edict of your house in regards to Metz. Surely this is a noble partaking and your Elector had every right to name his desires. I shall hereby second Edict 1.23.
No insult on our part was intended when our dear Elector questioned your proposal and we hold no ill-will against the Duchy of Swabia.

The Fourth Elector of Austria is met by Conrads stern gaze.

However, I do not understand why your Elector had to shame our dear princess by bringing up the... misunderstanding again and drawing her into this foolish notion which our Elector wrongfully proposed and which will, as I've already mentioned, have dire consequences.

Conrad takes a deep breath and looks around the Diet with an amiable smile on his face.

I hope this is settled then and our beloved Emperor does not have to be bothered to intervene in an non-existent dispute, caused by the hot-headedness of some of our younger members.

Again his gaze encompasses both the Fourth Elector of Austria and the Fifth Elector of Swabia before sinking back into his seat.


Edit: This should have gone before TinCows post. Have to type faster next time.

[Lucjan]

Dietrich watches quietly for a few moments, clearly amused with the most recent turn of events, but stands before the House of Austria can launch yet another tirade against the Swabians.

Good, people, of our noble houses. Perhaps the relevance of the subject is not entirely appropriate for diet discussion and should be kept to tavern talk and away from the floor of legal legislation. Let us refer instead to a more important subject matter.

Let us look at Kaiser Heinrich's proposition that lands be allocated geographically to maintain fairness and equal distribution of power between the houses.

Dietrich scratches his head, he's in a tight spot with this one, and takes his time to pick his wording carefully, that his position is properly understood.

I must support, and at the same time, detract, from seperate segments of this proposal. My support for the proposal lies in the Kaiser's inclination to make attempts at maintaining that no house acquires too much or too little power in regards to territory. This is an honorable pursuit, and for that I applaud him.

However, I do not think it is fair to allocate lands geographically. As we all know, this Empire is not going to make perfectly equal expansion in all directions. We all have our different opinions of allies, different opinions of enemies, except maybe the French and the Italians. I'm fairly certain we all despise them equally. But that's not the point. The point is that our expansion is not, and will not, be geographically equal in any sense of the word. Therefore the only way to maintain that territory is fairly distributed is to distribute according to merit. For example, an Austrian general may perform exceptionally well in the defence of Swabian lands, should the empire be invaded and all able generals needed to command the defence.

With that last statement, the steward casts a somewhat accusing glance at the bickering houses.

Therefore, when the defence is completed, a potential counterattack may ensue, and perhaps Swabia is then able to capture two regions from our enemy. In this situation, I would find the proper allocation of territory to be one region to Austria, one region to Swabia. Based on merit, and the good each House did for the whole of the empire. This is by no means geographically relevant to the House of Austria's current holdings, but it would be unfair to leave them unrewarded for their accomplishments.

This brings me to another relevant argument in regards to fairness. An argument I will not pursue, but feel compelled to bring up in light of this argument of territorial distribution.

Edicts are determined by votes, and the influence of each member of each house weighs into whether or not the edict is passed or failed. However, take into consideration that not all of our noble houses are comprised of the same number of electors. Franconia, for example, has only three, where Swabia has five, and Bavaria and Austria have four. This places Franconia at a significant disadvantage in all matters of state, when compared to the other noble houses of the empire.

Let me say for the record that this does not bother me, and I do not consider it a burden, nor do I want, expect, or wish for any kind of edict or notion to be mentioned to remedy this situation.

But , it is directly related to the question of territorial expansion. My counterpart in Bavaria has attempted to pick apart and amalgamize sections of our charter to try and counter my interpretation that only the kaiser may bestow lands, but I'm going to respond solely with common sense.

We will not expand equally in terms of geography. We do not hold equal influence in the diet. Therefore suggesting that edicts allowing specific distribution of regions to specific houses is in direct favor of whichever house has more electors than the others. For example, I do not wish to get involved in either side of Swabia and Austria's argument, and in the event that Bavaria does not either, then any edict that Swabia may suggest to give Swabia land that Austria also wants will automatically be passed in Swabia's favor by the weight of their electoral votes.

This is why it must be only the kaiser's decision as to which house's achievements merit the gifting of territory.

In this way I am very pleased to hear that the Kaiser's wisdom has opted him to try to fairly distribute the empire's territory, but I must also urge caution in regards to his promise of geographic distribution, as this is a promise that he may not by will, but by necessity, be forced to break.

In that respect I cannot support his edict that would also place later kaisers under the same restriction. I hope my stance in this matter does not offend or displease you Kaiser Heinrich. I am only putting forth my concerns as I think they stand well grounded in logic.

I would also, as he will someday in the distant future become as much an important figure in this Empire's history as Kaiser Heinrich is now, wish to hear what Prinz Henry has to say on the matter as well as his opinion on territorial distribution. After all, these subject will, however they are decided, directly affect him in the future.

[econ21]

Prinz Henry rises to his feet, nursing a bandaged hand and still mentally cursing the recent innovation of putting doors on carriages:

The House of Swabia unreservedly apologies to the House of Austria for any offence given by our most recent Elector... (scowls at the Fifth Elector of Swabia) ... who apparently has not yet adjusted to the solemn nature of the august body he has now joined. Fortunately, my sister does have a sense of humour, and may even find some merriment in recent exchanges - I trust the same is true of our dear brother Leopold. (Bows to the Austrian benches.)

On the matter of my father's charter ammendment (which does require seconding), I respect his determination to be equitable and to work towards coherent geographic boundaries. However, I do fear that edicts or ammendments over the Emperor's allocation of settlements start to blur the separation of powers that we have only just established with our charter.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich: You are wise, noble Electors. I only sought to resolve the dispute that had popped up. I can only hope that future Kaisers will be as impartial as possible. I withdraw Amendment 1.1.

And as for the comments regarding my daughter and the House of Austria, I shall tolerate none of this talk in the Diet. As Agnes' father and her Kaiser it is my decision on who she marries. Certain electors' actions in the upcoming times will determine who she weds. *eyes Mandorf and von Saxony*

Now, if we may continue this Diet by conducting ourselves with the civility that your people expect of you, gentlemen.

[Dutch_guy]

The third elector of Franconia rises for the first time, and starts speaking. Slowly but deliberately...

Noble lords, of all houses !

The distribution of new land is not a matter to be taken lightly, as the noble leader of my house, and also of that Bavaria, have rightly concluded. The question here is to ask oneself if one should be encouraged to be passive, to let better men fight for them, or to actively seek to glorify the empire with the conquest of an enemy city. Surely, if the Kaiser so desires, we should argue for the latter !

I am no warmongerer, but I do understand the significance of a system based on personal merit, a system which is better than one of geographic distribution...

Nothing new here, but it had to be said nonetheless.

[Grande Orso]

The Fourth Elector of Swabia rises again still seemingly shy and $embarassed to talk in front of this important assembly

Kaiser Heinrich, Prinz Henry, and most respected electors of all houses,

I... *stops, opens scroll, looks at notes*... I cannot claim to be an expert in the matters of state but... but I would like to stir the Diet's attention again on the fact that most of our current deliberations have dealt with territorial expansion...

He stops and swallows. The Kurfurst is visibly embarassed by the fact that he has to raise his point again, and it is clear that he does not feel confortable enough to raise strong points

... while I find that territorial expansion is a most honourable objective for our Empire, and one that should be discussed at length, as all of you most wisely did, I would like to remind you once again that a consistent military expansion is also required to support new settlements, in order to avoid leaving our Empire weaker at the core and on its borders.

I may be young, and perhaps even vain, my most venerand colleagues, but we all know that the expansion of a military force, for the reasons I have just oultined, requires a large investment of Florins. I certainly do not wish to see a day in which our noble Empire will be unable to pay his soldiers because of an empty treasury, nor do I wish to see our armies lowering themselves to the barbaric practices of sacking cities and murdering innocent lives simply to gain a financial profit.

For this reasons, I would like to urge this Diet to deliberate on some financial matters, specifically, the establishment of trade relations with the French and perhaps the English to the West, and the development of a trade network of merchants hired by our Holy Crown in order to improve our income.

He stops and breathes in. Clearly, his last statement was more than he expected himself capable of saying in front of such a congregation of wise men. After a short pause, he concludes...

For all these reasons, I would like, with the permission of this powerful Diet, to humbly propose
Edict 1.24: A network of merchants hired by the Holy Crown should be developed over time, and trading of valuable European resources should commence in order to provide economic growth for our country. Merchants should be encouraged to cautiously experiment in hostile commercial takeover behaviour

Realizing my inexperience in these matters, I submit this edict to you and strongly encourage you to provide me with any amendments that you should see fit. Thank you for your attention.

The elector returns to his seat with his colleagues from the House of Swabia. Once again, he sighes of relief for being able to express his points without stumbling on his words.

[SwordsMaster]

The fourth elector of Bavaria rises again.

While I understand the concern of the lord that spoke before me, I find that his edict is very vaguely formulated.

I wish to support it in the following form:

If I may, elector, define clearer objectives, I propose:

Edict 1.25

All steps must be taken for the Holy Empire to established trade rights with the nations of Byzantium, Poland, Russia, England, Spain, The papal States Portugal and Sicily within 10 years.


All these nations are "neighbours of our neighbours" or, in Poland's case our neighbours that we have no intention of fighting in the immediate future.


EDIT: Renamed to avoid confusion.

[Grande Orso]

This time the Kurfurst of Swabia rises quickly and is more direct in addressing the comments of the previous elector

Noble sir, I am afraid that I have explained myself poorly on this matter. While I fully support the creation of trade treaties with all the countries that you have listed in your proposed amendment, this is not what I intended in my proposed Edict 1.24.
My proposal regarded the hiring of a number of merchants during the Chancellor's term which, under the control of our wise Emperor, would be able to trade resources in name of the Empire. A number of these merchants, especially if they were accustomed to the matters of trade, could significantly boost the Empire's resources and allow us to support the expansionary measures previously proposed.

Perhaps, may I suggest to you to more formally propose your edict under the label of Edict 1.25?

I welcome any further comments on the wording of my proposed measure, and I apologize for the confusion.

Sits down, embarassed by the confusion he has created

[TinCow]

*Maximillian Mansdorf shakes his head slowly at the Fourth Elector of Swabia*

Our armies would have to lower themselves to the barbaric practices of sacking cities?! Sir, have you ever even spent a day in an army? Honor and glory may be wonderful things, to be sure, but they are never enough to feed 5,000 hungry men. We can expect chivalrous and selfless behavior from noble generals, but what of the common man-at-arms and the levies that make up the vast majority of our forces?

You must understand reality, sir, and reality is that men rarely take up arms when their lives are not threatened unless there is the possibility of substantial benefit for themselves and their families. Yes, we pay our soldiers, but it is a pittance in comparison to what they expect to reap from their fallen enemies. Certainly it is wrong to massacre good Christian civilians for no reason, but what harm is there in appropriating the wealth of an enemy city on its conquest? To consistently deny the sack of enemy cities is to court desertion and mutiny.

Calling the practice of sacking barbaric is a direct insult to many of the noble men who stand with us in this very room! That includes our glorious Kaiser Heinrich. I know you do not need a history lesson, but it has been less than 10 years since the Kaiser sacked the Saxon lands of the previous Duke of Bavaria for fomenting rebellion. Are you calling the Kaiser a barbarian for this act?

[Kagemusha]

Fifth Elector of Swabia stands up and adresses the crowd of Electors,

" Mein Kaiser, Mighty Lords of Germany. From my part i would like to apologize my harsh joke. I have nothing but admiration towards my fellow electors and im sorry about my rude manners. I have spent my life mostly on battlefields and learned from there that its better to speak shortly and say what you mean rather then make long speeches,when there are lot better men for such.
I would like to thank the second elector of Austria for seconding my proposal about sieging Metz and would beg for you gentlemen for someone to second edict 1.23 again so it can be voted on.
After inspecting the forces in Staufen i have came to conclusion that even if we leave some archers as garrison in Staufen, if my Lord and Prince, Henry would lead our men in the siege, im positive that we could starve out Metz in few years and if the garrison would try to sally he could defeat them without large problems
About the sacking of enemy cities. I think that its the pay of the soldier to take their share if the enemy is foolish enough to close their gates before the troops of Kaiser."

Fifth Elector of Swabia

[Grande Orso]

Stands, slightly blushing

I would like to apologize to the Diet for taking up so much of its time in historical discussions, but, if I may, I would like to address the claims made by Herr Mansdorf regarding my previous statement to this assembly.

*clears throat* Honoured sir, you are indeed correct in saying that I have not spent a single day in a proper army. These lands have seen much bloodshed and tumult in these years, and I, being of young age, have rarely left my hometown of Staufen. I have already expressed my desire and willingness to fight for the Holy Crown, and have put my own life at the service of my lord, Prinz Henry.

But while I may be inexperienced, I do not think that the systematic sacking of goods and murdering of civilians is the only thing that a person can expect after leading an army to victory. You say that we can only expect generals to be capable of pious and chivalrous acts. I say that people are led by example, and armies are inspired by their own leaders.

While our interests most certainly conflict with most of our neighbors, we must not forget that no matter what language is spoken on the streets of the cities we will march into for the glory of the Emperor, the people inhabiting them are going to be fellow Christians. If we are to improve our relations with the Holy Father in Rome, I think you will perhaps agree that murdering Catholics is not the wisest course of action. I am most willing to accept the practice of systematic sacking of the wealth of those who do not believe in the true God, but these vile people do not live within the reach of our empire for now, and they are not a concern.

And most importantly, I would like to apologize to all those who feel insulted by my comments in this room, including our Kaiser Henrich if he felt I intentionally offended him with my statement. But, while young of age, I am aware of the history of our glorious kingdom, and I would hardly compare the plundering of the Bavarian estates of Otto von Nordheim, former Duke of Bavaria, to the destruction of the wealth accumulated in a city by Christian hands. The former Bavarian Herzog, as you very well know, had plotted to murder our noble Emperor, and his estates had decided to aid him in his unholy plan, and our Kaiser's retaliation was more than justified.

I would like to conclude, if I may, that our Emperor has proven himself to be a great upholder of the Christian faith and a chivalrous leader, and I hope that everybody in this room may aspire to become a tenth of the man our Kaiser has shown himself to be.

Thank you

*Sits*

[flyd]

The Second Elector of Franconia takes the floor.

Although much has been discussed in this session of the Diet so far, I fear we lack direction. So far, little has been proposed other than expansion in many directions, and there has been much squabbling over settlement allocations and legal issues. It is true that we need to bring some of the surrounding independent states under Imperial influence before our rivals do, but we must begin to plan beyond that.

We are in a bit of a tricky position. We are surrounded by rivals on all sides. When we expand, we will come into contact with more of them, and our armies will be spread thin after conquest. I urge the Kaiser to leave no border with a major power undefended, lest they take the opportunity to grab some land. I would like to take a moment to discuss our potential rivals.

In the west we have France. Currently, Burgundy (Metz, Dijon) forms a buffer between us and France, but it is a very weak buffer. I believe that France could overrun them without great difficulty, unless they are engaged elsewhere. If we were to capture Metz instead, we would be abandoning the Rhine as a defensive frontier, and we would come into contact, and potentially conflict, with France. However, we would also move the border away from our capital at Frankfurt, and also Staufen, which would put those settlements in a safer position. This has to be considered very carefully. The best thing that could happen is that the French get into a conflict with the Normans, who have become a significant power after taking England. We should develop good relations, possibly even an alliance, with England, as a balance against France.

In Italy, the current peace seems very unstable. We have the potential to come into conflict with both Milan and Venice. It is imperative that we get into a conflict with only one of them, when the times comes. Venice may look to expand to the east, and may come into conflict with Hungary or even the Greeks. Conflict with Milan seems more likely, especially since it is supposed to be our land anyway. We should therefore look to establish good relations with Venice.

In the east we have Hungary and Poland. We already border Hungary. In fact, their capital is very close to Vienna. Vienna must remain well defended. I believe the Hungarians will take advantage of any perceived weakness. Poland is further away, and there are buffers between us, such as Bohemia and others. These should be brought under Imperial control, but that is not urgent. An important thing about Poland is that it is a potential enemy of Hungary, which is why we should develop good relations with them.

In the north, there is Denmark. If we capture Hamburg, we will have a perfectly positioned castle to keep them confined to the Jutland peninsula. For that reason, I do not see them as a great threat.

These are some things to consider. I will not propose any new edicts, as there are very many edicts already, and some of them already deal with the relevant issues. Edict 1.3 deals with the north, establishing a good defensive position against Denmark. Edict 1.4 establishes good relations with Venice, while Edict 1.17 forbids Milan as a friend. Edict 1.6 provides for surveillance against Hungary, while Edict 1.19 establishes good relations with Poland. Edict 1.25 mentions good relations with England and Poland, and other non-adversary countries. All of these Edicts are consistent with the arguments I made above.

[DMu]

Daily Vote from a portion of Austria:

Edict 1.22: 504 vs 777: Nein
Edict 1.23: 877 vs 0: Nein
Edict 1.24: 712 vs. 200: Ja: seconded.
Edict 1.25: 213 vs. 9: Ja: seconded.