Imperial Diet

[pevergreen]

Friends, I am unable to comprehend what the Swabian Elector means, I have been forced Lothar is smacked on the back of the head by Conrad uhh...decided to retire from this session of the Diet until voting commences.

Thank you.

[Warluster]

I put forward an edict,
Edict (OOC-What one are we up to?) -We stregthen relations with the papal States through the options we have so far.

If we could improve our relationswe would be able to attack Catholic nations, not that I propose that.

[DMu]

Nameless elector from Austria stand up.

May I have your attention, fellow Furkurst and Caesar Meus et Augustus Meus.

Hands over a scroll (Edict 1.26)

it reads

In the event that an Imperial princess fails to secure a marriage and is disgraced, The Empire shall declare war on the ungrateful faction to whom the princess is eloped. This is not to recover the princess, but to teach the ungrateful faction a lesson. No faction shall kidnap our princess with impunity.

I await with anticipation your responses, my lords.

[Warluster]

I do not like or dislike edict 1.26. I dislike it because we would be getting into wars a lot, money gone from the treasury!

I like it because it is a bad will if they decline us an treaty!

[TinCow]

An entire war over a single woman? Need I remind you gentlemen that we are the true heirs of the Roman Empire. An Empire which was founded by those who fled Troy after its fall. Surely there is some lesson to be had in that.

I personally will not go to war soley for the sake of a woman, no matter how royal her blood may be! If there is a legitimate cause for the war, then it can stand on those grounds. If there is nothing but the woman's shame... well... let her come to my estate. I will comfort her! Mandorf laughs heartily.

[OverKnight]

The Third Elector of Bavaria speaks to the Diet:

I do not wish to add to the debate of which rebel lands we should conquer, but I do hope to clarify it. I will list all rebel lands we border, starting with Florence and moving clock-wise, whether they are Castles (C) or Towns (T), and which edicts, if any, call for their conquest.

Florence (T) 1.18
Bern (C) 1.13
Metz (C) 1.7,1.23
Antwerp (T) 1.8
Hamburg (C) 1.3
Magdeburg (C)
Breslau (T)
Prague (T) 1.5
Zagreb (T)

I hope this will aid the members of the Diet in their discussion and the Kaiser in his battle plans.

[OverKnight]

The Third Elector of Bavaria looks around, sees that no one else has spoken, and addresses the Diet again:

I apologize for speaking a second time my fellow Electors, but I wish to comment on some of the recent proposed edicts:

I second edict 1.25, not only will trade rights allow our coffers to grow, but they serve as a good base for further diplomatic discussions if needed. My fellow Elector from Bavaria is wise in proposing this.

Edict 1.24 has merit, but developing and financing merchants is expensive work. Not only does it take money to recruit merchants, but unless our towns have trade buildings we can only recruit so many, one or two currently. In the long run, merchants, if they are not driven out of business, pay off this investment of florins. However in the short term they do not. Perhaps, with money so tight in the next few years we should delay recruiting them.

Edict 1.26 is unwise. According to the charter the Diet, unless there is an enemy incursion into our territories, votes on when to declare war. If we encounter a situation as laid out in the edict, we can decide then if war is justified. I will not vote for edicts now that constrain our actions in the future.

Thank you my lords.

[Kagemusha]

Fifth Elector of Swabia greets everyone and starts reading from a scroll: "I will support the following edicts,that still need seconding:"


Edict 1.10: The available spy in the Prague region should infiltrate the city and bring back to the Reich info on a daily basis.
Proposed: Third Elector of Austria (DMu)


"In my opinion Prague should be added to the Empire as soon as practical and good information is a part of succesfull planning for victory."

Edict 1.22: The House of Swabia requests that Florence become a Free Imperial City, owing allegience to no Duke, but only to the Kaiser himself.
Proposed: Third Elector of Swabia (Ignoramus)


"At current moment i agree that this would be the best option.The case can be re entered later."

"That is all.The rest of edicts already have two seconders,i cant support becouse i have suggested or i dont simply agree with at the moment".Fifth Elector of Swabia bows and sits down on his place.

[Ituralde]

Conrad von Schüsselen rises slowly once again and looks at the assembled members.

First I have to respond to the previous speaker about Edict 1.22. Have we not just recently ruled out the possibility of the Diet allocating settlements? Surely this includes gifting them to the Empire! All Edicts implying the ownership of a certain settlement should be amended, as I will hereby do to our own Edict 1.18. Edict 1.22 should not stand to vote as it is beyond our rights to force Emperor Heinrich to do this.

He casts a stern gaze towards the Fifth Elector of Swabia, before calming down and continuing to the Diet:

With our meeting calling to a close our dear friend of Franconia... His gaze travels to the Second Elector of Franconia ...has rightfully reminded us how important it is that we carefully consider the actions proposed within our Edicts, and which ones can be fulfilled, before casting our votes.
All in all I agree with the general push of the dear Elector and must applaude him on summarizing our situation so beautifully.

As many others here, I also have concerns about our plans for expansion. Should all edicts be passed we would surely overstretch ourselves. I would advise the Emperor to not take more than three settlements in the initial push. Metz, Hamburg and Florence seem to be the most argued for, closely followed by Prague, I think. Having acheived the former we should take time to evaluate our position before moving on to the fourth target in that list. From campaigning with our dear Emperor I know him to be a good tactician who surely needs little guidance from me on that matter, but I had to make my oppinions public. A careful yet resolute appraoch would be best suited for our expansions.

Next we should look at Edicts that contradict each other or should not be undertaken together. Two of those would be... He looks down to one of his scribes... Edict 1.4 and 1.20. If both of those should pass we would find ourselves allied to two powers in Italy. Surely we should not give our word for an alliance away so lightly. As you know I'd prefer a temporary alliance with Venice while a neutral stance towards Sicily is maintained. However I don't know the outcoming of our ruling and would propose that only the Edict supported by the most votes will lead to a full alliance.

At last I would like to take up again on Edict 1.17. To my disappointment our Emperor seems not to favour it.
He casts a short glance to Emperor Heinrich.
I have to ask all of you assembled here to consider the price of our honour and integrity, before deciding to barter it away to the highest bidder. Our financial situation is neither that desperate nor should we be that greedy to accept by peaceful trade money that should have been ours to begin with. A clear stance has to be found regarding the Italian City States. By accepting trade rights or other diplomatic actions we would indirectly show them that we approve of their actions. Indepence from the Empire should not be gained that lightly, so once again I urge you dear Electors to support me in Edict 1.17 and show those money-loving Milanese that our acceptance and goodwill can not be bought by their cheap gold!

His voice has risen again to the end of his speech and he has talked himself into a rage. He breathes deeply to compose himself...

That's all I have to say on these matters.

...and sits back down.

[OverKnight]

The elector speaks to the Diet:

Lords, having listened to Elector Conrad's statements, I feel I must reaffirm the importance of taking the rebel castle of Bern. I share the Elector's distrust of the Milanese, if not his intensity over it. What better way to guard against their treachery than to secure all the Alpine passes between us and them?

And when we decide to restore our claim to Milan, we could use Bern as part of a pincer movement against their territories. Genoa could be seized by an army from Florence, and their capital taken by an army marching from Bern.

I am not saying this day is close, but let us lay down the foundation for it. Let us take Bern to secure our southern border and provide a solid base for our future expansion. Please vote for edict 1.13.

Thank you my lords.

[Ituralde]

Conrad shakes his head at this proposal, obviously the Elector has only listened to half his statements.

[Lucjan]

Dietrich stands as the commotion starts to die down and turns a direct eye to the fourth elector of Swabia.

As seems to have been overlooked, despite a second plea, and, trust me young sir, at least one set of ears did hear your first, a question of how much our aimed expansion will strain our coffers and weaken our army has been raised.

I would like to take some time to adress this question as it is one that deserves an honest reply.

Firstly, in regards to the fear of straining our coffers. I must say that while it is an understandable concern, it is not one that, at this point in time, should be dwelled upon too heavily for the following reasons.

Our expansion into new cities and castles will undeniably bring in more florins to help alleviate the financial strain of maintaining our armies.

Our cities, under their individual charters and according to the size of their defences and imperial distribution of arms, are capable of providing us with a reasonable number of militia regiments *, free of any upkeep charges through the laws of compulsory defence service, to act as a policing force to maintain order within the city as well as to act as the cities last line of defence, should our armies fail to arrive on time or, God forbid, be lost in battle against a foe. These free militia regiments should prove excellent in their designated tasks. Those being to keep the peace, and not cost us any more money than we need to form the regiment. That is, of course, so long as they aren't removed from the city. Furthermore our ability to recruit higher class militias will grow in conjunction with the strength of the city itself.

As the Empire grows, so does trade, taxes, and farming revenue. All of these things bring coin into the coffers, which can be spent, pending the wisdom of our dukes and stewards, to further increase the profitability or military strength of the empire through the construction of domestic or military architectural projects. Each House here most certainly understands the importance of a balance of both, and the Kaiser himself has final say over whether or not construction is allowed, so ducal queies that may be undesirable either financially or militarily at the time can simply not be acted upon by the Kaiser.

I hope I have eased your concern in regards to our coffers. So, on to the other question.

Secondly, in regards to your concern that we may be overstretching our military, I don't believe we'll have any problems there either.

Kaiser Heinrich is an able military commander and an equally able administrator. I trust his judgement in the distribution of funds for training and retraining military regiments as is needed, and I can assure you that he will not be unknowledgable of the Empire's affairs in this regard.

I will be in contact with the Kaiser as often as is needed to ensure that our northern border with Denmark remains secure during my stay in Hamburg and has the necessary defences to remain that way when I leave. And as certain as I am that each and every one of our nobility in the field and on our borders will speak with the kaiser at different times to suggest and request anything that they may need done to uphold the stability of the Empire, I am certain the Kaiser will act in his best judgement to assure the same. I do not know him as the kind of man to disregard the suggestions and evaluations of his trusted generals more closely located to the situation than himself.

Dietrich, feeling he has sufficiently adressed the young electors concerns, sits, but keeps an eye on him to see if he has any other questions.

* ( OOC - A Regiment was the name for the standard field unit in the HRE at the time, and I believe when referring to game "units", we should use this term.)

[econ21]

[Prinz Henry: The list of proposed edicts and their seconders has been updated. Recall an edict needs TWO seconders before it can be voted on. The deadline for seconding (or proposing) motions is 3 hours hence (18.00 UK time).

I second edicts 1.8, 1.23 and Charter Ammendment 1.2.

[Ituralde]

Conrad goes over some paperwork with his secretaries as he suddenly seems to notive something and stands up. Coughing loudly and then clearing his throat he begins to speak.

It just realized that by Edict 1.13 Bern would be given to the House of Bavaria upon its conquest. While I perceive Bern to be a vital target in our expansion strategies I am against the consequences implied in this Edict. If it is not amended I will call Edict 1.27:
Bern is to be a prime target for Imperial Expansion. The Kaiser has to ensure that no other major power seizes this valuable asset before the Empire does so.

I'm especially referring to the threat of a Milanese expansion through the Alps here which can not be allowed. Bern has to be captured but I stilll strongly oppose any notion that this Diet can rule on the Allocation of settlements.

Conrad sends a curt nod towards the Bavarian Electors and sits back down, once again occupied with the documents brought to him by his secretaries.

[OverKnight]

The Third Elector licks his lips, glances around nervously and decides to speak:

My lords, in reviewing charter amendment 1.2 I noticed in no place does it mention how many edicts the Kaiser himself may propose.

The elector reads the amendment from a scroll:

Each elector is only allowed to put forward 3 edicts to the Diet. Dukes are allowed 5, while the Chancellor has no limit.

Without mentioning the Kaiser specifically it would limit him to 3 edicts as a mere elector if he were not a Chancellor or a Duke. I hope this was an oversight by the Third elector of Swabia, and that he was not attempting to muzzle future Kaisers.

As for edict 1.27, have you proposed it officially Elector Conrad? If so I will consider seconding it, however the hour is drawing late for new edicts. . .

The elector trails off and returns to his seat.

[Ituralde]

If 1.13 ist not ammended my Edict 1.27 stands!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich:Gentlemen, the deadline for proposing/seconding edicts will expire in five minutes' time. We shall then proceed to vote on them. I urge any elector who has not yet seconded an edict that he agrees with to do so immediately.

[TinCow]

If I am not too late, as requested, I will amend Edict 1.13 as follows so that it does not conflict with either 1.27 or the stated rules on provincial ownership.

Edict 1.13: The Diet wishes to advise the Kaiser that it is their desire that Bern be given to Bavaria upon conquest.

I second Edict 1.27

[Ituralde]

Conrad had been bustling with anticipation as the deadline as drawn near. He knew he brought the Edict forward too late, but he was still hoping. After Maximilian Mandorf has made his stand he bows courtouesly to the Bavarian delegation, a small smile of relief on his face.

[DMu]

Third Kurfurst of Austria speaks.

Salvete! Fellow Kurfurst, mein Kaiser, et mein Prinz:

I have managed to tally the votes coming from my portion of Austria

Edicts:

1.1: Aye
1.3: Aye
1.4: Aye
1.5: Aye
1.6: Aye
1.7: Aye
1.8: Aye
1.13: Aye
1.16: Aye
1.17: Aye
1.18: Aye
1.19: Aye
1.20: Aye
1.23: Nay
1.25: Aye

Charter amendment 1.2: NAY NAY NAY. *brandishes sword* it's a conspiracy to limit the power of the people! It must be stopped. It must be stopped I tell you! At all cau-- early symptom of stroke as third elector of Austria falls silent, his lower lips out of sync with his upper one.*

[Ituralde]

Conrad von Schüsselen was already disgruntled about his last Edict not being seconded in time. Now with every Elector not from the House of Austria arrayed against his Edict 1.17 he can't hold back any longer and jumps off his seat:

This is an Outrage!!

I'm disgusted by the decision of this Diet concerning those treacherous Dogs! If you're so greedy for their shiny gold why don't you just crawl up their arses and get it!? It seems like you're already too far up to listen to reasonable arguments anyways!!

Conrad von Schüsselen throws up his arms in exasperation, casting scornful looks through the assembly.

I can't stand to be in the same room with such money-loving hypocrites!

Bristling with indignation he storms out of the Assembly.
His clerks forward his votes from Edict 1.17 onwards.

[Kagemusha]

Fifth elector of Swabia stands up after a period of silence caused by the thundering of second elector of Austria and says:

"I have been fallowing the votes and want to express my disappointment over the votes for edict 1.23. What is the reasoning that many of you are against sieging Metz? Now is the time to surround it and put it back under the rule of Kaiser! Is it not better to siege it now and take it from the rebel slaves that oppose the fair rule of Kaiser rather then to wait for French to take it and then wage war against them with our current limited resources?

Fifth elector pauses for a second and then slowly raises his head revealing a beast like grin as he stares down on the second and third Elector of Swabia.

" You of all people should understand the importance of Metz for protecting the capital of our Dutchy Swabia, Staufen. Do you want to sit on your hands when the French come and take the towns right under our own nose? Maybe you are better on amusing Whenches then taking your sword and following your Prince in to the battle for the Glory of the Reich? I think that our Suebi ancestors will turn in their graves when they see that the protectors of our people are too afraid to take the cities that are rightfully part of the Empire!"

Electors speach has turned in to bull like groaning and he has to stop yelling becouse he is out of breath.With his still red face twisted by anger he stares around the room and says:

"In the face of the God and Kaiser. I hereby pledge an oath that once i leave for my quarters i shall put on my armor and will not take it off before German forces have sieged Metz in order to bring it back in the Reich.As God is my witness i shall eat,sleep and and do everything else in my armour from now on untill we have renewed our courage and sieged Metz!"

Fifth Elector of Swabia turns around and leaves the room to put on his armour.

[pevergreen]

People stand and look for the sounds of hysterical laughter. It turns out to be Lothar Van Austria.

Im sorry, It's just that, I would like to propose, hahaha that we never take Metz! Ever! Falls over laughing

I cant stop holding my sides!

[TinCow]

The Fifth Elector of Swabia shows noble purpose in his words. Let it not be said that the House of Bavaria does not support those with great moral fibre. As it will surely be 2 to 4 years at least before Metz is besieged, it seems likely that the Swabian Elector will have some difficulties with his metal lederhosen. Accordingly, the House of Bavaria hereby donates, free of charge, a full cartload of oil to help lubricate his nether regions, and another cartload of orange slices, to aid his... bouquet... while in the Diet.

[OverKnight]

OOC: This was supposed to go up before TinCow's post.

The Third Elector, hunched over paper work, looks wearily up from his desk at the commotion, parchment is scattered across it and a few stray pages have fallen to the floor of the Diet chamber. The Elector runs ink stained fingers through his hair, stands and speaks:

My Lords, could we wait for the voting to close before we begin yelling at each other again? If you are disappointed to have the voting go against you, channel that rage against our true enemies. The Reich, in the coming years, will need all of us. Pray remember that.

The Elector sits down heavily at his desk and returns to his scribbling.

[IvarrWolfsong]

Letter to the Imperial Diet from Cardinal Peter Scherer

Kaiser Heinrich, Emperor of Romans by the Grace of God, annointed and approved by the True Church, his beloved son Henry, Prinz of the Empire and noble members of the Diet,

It is with great sorrow that I am unable to attend the present session of this righteous body. As true Christians, I pray you will find it in your hearts to forgive my absense.

I have been held up in a meeting with an agent of the Office of the Holy Father himself. This man, one Rudolfo Orsini of Genoa, has spoken to me regarding the current state of affairs in the Vatican. A more detailed account will be made to the Kaiser and Prinz Henry in person, but let it be said that what I have heard saddens and angers me.

In brief, it is my duty as an elector to advise the diet of the following: although our Holy Father is a man greatest faith and piety who holds no hatred for our people, there are men among his court that do not feel the same way. Gregory, so full of purity and goodness himself, sometimes fails to see the evil in men and takes their lies for truth. These serpents, mostly Italians from the north, seek to cause strife between our Reich and the Holy See. <<scribbled in the margin>>The arrogance and impiety of men to speak untruths to the Pontiff as he sits upon the very Throne of Peter himself fills me with the most uncharitible rage. Vengence, in the end, is our Lords, but justice, that is the duty of our temporal rulers!<<end margin>>. I believe they hope to gain favor for their cities at the expense of our Empire.

To men of action such as yourselves, these whispers may seem little more than the gossip of cloistered old men. However, I must strong disagree. Should this trend continue, the Italians and even the French, who allow heresy to thrive within their very borders, will gain the protection of the Vatican while we gain it's scorn. Attacks by the favored may be overlooked while retailiation by our forces will be met with admonshments and grave spiritual consequences for our leaders. I know there was talk of establishing an embassy within the Holy City so that the Holy Father may hear our love for him from our own lips and not through the poisoned tongues of Italian vipers. Now, more than ever, I strongly support such a venture.

Finally, the matter of the young French noblewoman who spoke so many slanders to the character and habits of the good Prinz has been reconcilled. With the help of our friends in Palermo, young Maribelle DuPot Guillbert has agreed to enter the cloister of Santa Maria Carmel di Palermo. <<scribbled in the margin>> King Roger is a righteous man and strong in both faith and arms. He is of Norman, not Italian, blood. <<end margin>> This is an order of silent sisters and it is fitting that one who spoke such cruel untruths should, in seeking to achieve absolution and Grace through our Savior, chose a vow of silence. I am pleased to see her on the path to redemption.

I expect this letter to arrive well after the voting has concluded, and therefore must abstain from casting votes this session. If by the Grace of God and divine Providence, my rider has arrived before the ceasation of voting, I whole heartedly support any action to dispatch an ambassador to the Vatican. Should there be enough time, I would ask that other pressing matters be addressed to Father Willem of Bruges, my Latin Secretary. He knows my mind and knows when descisions should be left to me. You may find him at my apartments north of the grain markets.

In eternal service to Church and Empire,

Peter Johann Philodolphus Scherer, Cardinal.

[Lucjan]

Dietrich leans back in his chair, placing his hands behind his head with a smile. The recent outbursts have certainly struck a chord of amusement with him. He has no long winded speech in regards to the acts, but while he quietly thinks to himself that he's glad his House is a bit more, reserved, he thinks it might be a necessity to clear up some issues with the fifth elector of Swabia. Calling one of his court aids to him he sends a letter to the man assuring him that he's overlooked a tiny detail. Metz in fact will be taken, it's been provided for by an earlier edict.

[Kagemusha]

Fifth Elector of Swabia returns in the council room in his Hauberg and his helmet on his armpit.Talks to his scribe shortly and adresses the humoured crowd:

"First i would like to thank the House of Bavaria and Maximilian Mandorf for their generous offer of oil and other lointments and when considering how the votes are progressing i will gladly accept their gifts."

Elector bows his head towards the Bavarians and then adresses Dietrich Von Saxony from the Franconian side:

" I see you as a good man and great amongst the Lords of the Reich. But what the edict you talk about says is that we would raise an army capable of conquering Metz, this is good and fine,but the edict doesnt say that we would be sieging Metz.
While we build up our army its possible that the French will conquer the town meanwhile and i suspect that this Council will not support war with the French becouse of the Metz in that case during the next diet. This is the exact reason i proposed edict 1.23. So if i have to rot inside my Hauberk like the fourth Austrian Elector suggested to the council,then God´s will it is. And i should stay in my armour for the remainder of my days"

Fifth Elector of Swabia sits on his place rather heavily.

[Lucjan]

There is, I believe, sufficient understanding between the Kaiser and myself, due to his initial favor of my proposal rather than a similar one which cuts the time to take Metz into half of what I have provided, and due to the continual talk amongst the diet during the proceedings of Metz most certainly being a clear target for immediate expansion, that the edict requires Metz be taken.

In the future it may be beneficial to us all to be a bit more clear in the wording of our edicts, so as to avoid potential confusion like this. The implication of the edict however is that an army must be formed and must have conquered Metz by the end of the Kaiser's term as chancellor.

If I understand correctly, the reason your own proposal was turned down was due to the fact that it would have forced a prolonged, many year siege that would have denied the Empire much florins from trade, tax and farmland yields that could otherwise be more swiftly taken with an assault on the tiny castle.

I apologize for the confusion, but I had assumed the diet was in full understanding of the edict. Perhaps you walked in after the first couple of speeches had already been given, and missed out on our initial banterings in regards to Metz.

[TinCow]

I am in agreement with the Steward of Franconia. I personally voted against Edict 1.23 because as I read it, it prevented the besieging army from assaulting Metz to bring about its conquest even faster. If the Field Marshal in command of the army assigned to this task chooses to starve them out, I will support that move. However, I did not wish to limit his strategic options by pre-determining the nature of the military actions.