So Windows vista’s out

[Husar]

Pope Gates I, ensures that all Cathosoft factions adhere to the code or face excommunication. Once excommunicated other Cathosoft factions can then crusade against that faction. Otholinux and Maclim factions cannot crusade, but can do what they like without the Pope's approval... they may find crusades heading their way though. The Cathosoft code involves the usual indoctrination, invading the users' privacy and working it's way into every part of their lives.

Well, it either shows that Microsoft does have a fanbase or that there are many greedy romanians who want Bill to adopt their children and/or kidnap him.

[DukeofSerbia]

I'm still kinda nostalgic for Win2k. It had it all, and it ran like greased lightning on everything.

I completely agree. Win 2000 w/SP4 is probably the best MS OS so far, but they abandoned support for it.

[Bob the Insane]

I completely agree. Win 2000 w/SP4 is probably the best MS OS so far, but they abandoned support for it.

Gota say that Win2k3 gets my vote... Compared to Win2k I find it a rock solid server OS...

Back to Vista... I got it (just because I am a total sucker for new and shinny things) and am still fighting it onto my system...

Upgrade from WinXP Pro to Vista Ultimate took forever... And it is not a slow machine...

I have vista drivers for MB chipset and NIC and the beta X-FI driver from creative and the latest nVidia driver for my 8800GTX also for vista.

Downloading updates for logitech (my G7 mouse just stopped working with it) and the latest version of nTune...

Worst issue so far... It would appear some content protection widget in Vista does not allow you to view an HD signal via component video. The DVI - HDMI HDCP link thingy seems to be working though except I have it hooked up to be 40" HDTV and using DVI-HDMI you loss some of the visable area off the edges of the screen (a TV thing apparantly). The Component HD connection could compensate for that but as above it no longer appears to function. I thought it was something wrong wth the driver but found info on line about issues with HD output and component connections and vista...

[KukriKhan]

Pope Gates I, ensures that all Cathosoft factions adhere to the code or face excommunication. Once excommunicated other Cathosoft factions can then crusade against that faction. Otholinux and Maclim factions cannot crusade, but can do what they like without the Pope's approval... they may find crusades heading their way though. The Cathosoft code involves the usual indoctrination, invading the users' privacy and working it's way into every part of their lives.

rofl.

Brilliant.

[sapi]

Nice one Caravel

Still, you have to admit that most microsoft products are good, even if you don't like them ;)

[caravel]

I completely agree. Win 2000 w/SP4 is probably the best MS OS so far, but they abandoned support for it.

I've never understood this idea/theory/opinion/whatever, that Win2K/SP4 was the best ever. With some minor tweaking I can turn XP/SP2 into what is effectively a newer, faster, more secure, updated, stable version of Win2K/SP4 so I'm not sure why some people still cling on to it? Am I missing something here?

[naut]

@ Caravel: Brilliant.

My PC can't run Vista. My friend has a Macbook, and the irony is that it runs vista better than OSX.

[English assassin]

I was on Windows 98 until a year ago.

So, no, I don't think I'll be rushing out any time soon...

Anyway, what about all this broken by design DRM stuff? Buying Vista is inviting The Man to tell you what you can do with your own PC

[sapi]

@assassin - not for a long time - enforcing hdcp now would kill the industry

*remembers that he needs to write a debate speech praising laws against music file sharing in the next few days and sighs

[pevergreen]

My friend has a friend thats a Microsoft Developer (i can say that right? ) so he somehow got a copy of the beta of Vista. Looked cool...but now with the connectivity and security issues...I might stay with XP. At least that gets out the trojans et al..albeit with at least five virus protection software running 24/7....

[Geoffrey S]

I'll be waiting for a long while yet. It's expensive, I barely use a PC right now, and as for games there's still a huge backcatalogue of great games I've yet to buy before I could care particularly about the next generation.

Still, you have to admit that most microsoft products are good, even if you don't like them ;)

No, you don't.

[x-dANGEr]

I've never understood this idea/theory/opinion/whatever, that Win2K/SP4 was the best ever. With some minor tweaking I can turn XP/SP2 into what is effectively a newer, faster, more secure, updated, stable version of Win2K/SP4 so I'm not sure why some people still cling on to it? Am I missing something here?

You read my mind..

And.. Nice one!

Pope Gates I, ensures that all Cathosoft factions adhere to the code or face excommunication. Once excommunicated other Cathosoft factions can then crusade against that faction. Otholinux and Maclim factions cannot crusade, but can do what they like without the Pope's approval... they may find crusades heading their way though. The Cathosoft code involves the usual indoctrination, invading the users' privacy and working it's way into every part of their lives.

[caravel]

As Sun Tzu would say: "Those skilled in programming do not release the same OS twice, or patch the same security hole three times."

[Lemur]

I've never understood this idea/theory/opinion/whatever, that Win2K/SP4 was the best ever. With some minor tweaking I can turn XP/SP2 into what is effectively a newer, faster, more secure, updated, stable version of Win2K/SP4 so I'm not sure why some people still cling on to it? Am I missing something here?

Sure, you can turn off services and de-glitter XP until it feels exactly like Win2K, but that's sort of missing the point. Win2K had all of the essentials that make an MS operating system worthwhile, and almost none of the crapware. You could load it on your grandma's PC, spend less than twenty minutes configuring it, and it would run forever. It was the just-right OS, in this Lemur's opinion.

You call XP a "newer, faster, more secure, updated stable version" of the Holy Grail, Win2K. Let's break that string of adjectives down.

Newer? By definition. So what?

Faster? No, not really, and not in any test I've ever seen published. Default installs of XP are slower than default installs of Win2K. And don't go whinging about how you can reconfigure the OS to be less of a hog; that's beside the point. (And remember, when your friend fries his laptop and asks you for help, it's the default install you'll be dealing with.)

More secure? Marginally, and only because MS stopped releasing updates for Win2K, but with a little TLC you can still secure the OS just fine, thanks very much. It's not as though you want to run WinXP with no 3rd party security, either.

Updated? By definition, but its day will come, and sooner rather than later, especially if users stay away from Vista in droves. MS has no reason not to make XP look bad in the next couple of years.

Stable? Win2K was rock-solid. I worked with it for years, and the only applications that could take it down to the metal were Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer. I never saw a non-Microsoft app take it out. Same goes for XP. I think it's a tie.

Does this help you understand why some of us old geezers have a soft spot for Win2K?

[JeromeGrasdyke]

Apparently there is no technical reason why DX10 can't work on XP, so maybe I'll just hang around waiting to see if Microsoft blinks on the issue. Unlikely, I know, but possible.

Unfortunately that is not entirely true. The API and the functionality will port, given the right graphics card, but Microsoft radically changed the graphics driver model in Vista, moving the drivers from ring 0 to ring 3. This has completely revamped the performance characteristics of the API... calls that used to be really expensive to make are suddenly dirt cheap because you avoid the kernel mode transitions.

The end result is that an engine written for DirectX 10 on Vista would run fantastically slowly on a hypothetical DirectX 10 for Windows XP - and by fantastically I mean at around 20-30% of the fps. Sorry about that :) Although I have heard some rumours that there may be an updated DirectX 9 which includes some of the new hardware capabilities introduced in DX10.

Enfin... Total War games will support DirectX 9 for a good while yet, so no real reason to worry.

[Bob the Insane]

An update to my post...

Well Vista is all up and running and such, drivers updated etc... And M2TW totally works fine so I am happy...

And the Midway demo functions too...

I will play around with other games and stuff this evening...

Additional: the flick3D thingy gets my vote for most sucky feature so far...

And it rates my machine as 5.1!!! What on earth does that mean???

Apparant it was limited to 5.1 because on my processor... My Intel Core 2 Extreme x6800 processor...

[caravel]

And don't go whinging about how you can reconfigure the OS to be less of a hog; that's beside the point.

I wasn't planning to whinge. I never whinge!

I stand by my original statement though. Win2k and XP are basically much the same animal: Windows NT5.x. With all of the crap stripped away and properly optimized XP is the better OS.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not an XP fanboy, or a Windows fanboy even. I just happen to think that, at present XP is the best of a bad lot.

[Xiahou]

FWIW, I've always liked XP better as well. When 2000 came out, I used it alot at work but never felt like upgrading from Win98 at home. It was when XP came out that I saw an OS that felt worth upgrading for. And I definitely prefer 2003 server to 2000 server.

[drone]

Article from HardOCP on Vista.
http://consumer.hardocp.com/article....xoY29uc3VtZXI=

Not too flattering.

[Lemur]

The API and the functionality will port, given the right graphics card, but Microsoft radically changed the graphics driver model in Vista, moving the drivers from ring 0 to ring 3. This has completely revamped the performance characteristics of the API... calls that used to be really expensive to make are suddenly dirt cheap because you avoid the kernel mode transitions.

The end result is that an engine written for DirectX 10 on Vista would run fantastically slowly on a hypothetical DirectX 10 for Windows XP - and by fantastically I mean at around 20-30% of the fps.

Ugh, this is sad news. So there's no practical way to get the new driver model ... without buying into the DRM junk bundled with the new OS. Which means that if I want the shiny goodness, I have to purchase a video card with a %#$@*#%! tilt-bit built into it.

I guess I'll be sticking with DX9 for a while. Not only will it save me money, but it won't leave that icky pigopolist taste in my mouth.

[Papewaio]

Guess who I work for.

[Bob the Insane]

Vista has this User Access Control setting that is on by default... What a pain it is...

I am using an admin account but trying to do anything remotely admin like involves having vista bombard you with dialogs asking if you really want to do o it and to grant the admin privilage to do it or something along those lines...

Things got a lot more normal after I disabled that...

[Lemur]

Article from HardOCP on Vista.
http://consumer.hardocp.com/article....xoY29uc3VtZXI=

Not too flattering.

That article summarized my feelings pretty exactly.

The only amusing thing I've seen in relation to this cluster-suck from Microsoft was the Romanian President telling Gates what a boon software piracy has been for his country. If I didn't check the URL, I would have sworn it was from The Onion.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Piracy worked for us, Romania president tells Gates

Reuters, Thursday, February 1, 2007; 9:45 AM

BUCHAREST (Reuters) - Pirated Microsoft Corp software helped Romania to build a vibrant technology industry, Romanian President Traian Basescu told the company's co-founder Bill Gates on Thursday.

Basescu was meeting the software giant's chairman in Bucharest to celebrate the opening of a Microsoft global technical center in the Romanian capital.

"Piracy helped the young generation discover computers. It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania," Basescu said during a joint news conference with Gates.

"It helped Romanians improve their creative capacity in the IT industry, which has become famous around the world ... Ten years ago, it was an investment in Romania's friendship with Microsoft and with Bill Gates."

Gates made no comment.

Former communist Romania, which has just joined the European Union, introduced anti-piracy legislation 10 years ago but copyright infringements are still rampant.

Experts say some 70 percent of software used in Romania is pirated, and salesmen still visit office buildings in central Bucharest to sell pirated CDs and DVDs.

Foreign investors say Romania's IT sector is one of most promising industries in the fast-growing economy thanks to high level of technical education in Romania, low wages and the country's thriving underworld of computers hackers.

[caravel]

I'm afraid it's a case if M$ releasing the same OS yet again with a few extra gimmicks and toys, which is not what people want from an OS. With DirectX10 as the added bit of leverage.

[Lemur]

With DirectX10 as the added bit of leverage.

DX10 seems to be the only leverage. I don't know why I find this so upsetting, but I do.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Well, there's the 64-bit capabilities as well, you might feasibly want it for that. But in general, yes, the way DX10 is being used to ram the operating system down people's throats is rather breathtakingly cynical.

[Lemur]

Well, there's the 64-bit capabilities as well, you might feasibly want it for that.

Nope, that's not strictly true. It's DX10, pure and simple. I feel a need to fall on my knees like Chuck Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes and do some screaming about how "you blew it up."

[Papewaio]

Unfortunately what we have is a narrowing of the market. Very few options out their and the leaders are very much into the propriety stick one way or the other.

I would love to see a market where gaming and enterprise level computers could be a mix of any apps on any OS on any hardware... as long as each level had the grunt not the makers mark to run it.

[edyzmedieval]

That article summarized my feelings pretty exactly.

The only amusing thing I've seen in relation to this cluster-suck from Microsoft was the Romanian President telling Gates what a boon software piracy has been for his country. If I didn't check the URL, I would have sworn it was from The Onion.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Piracy worked for us, Romania president tells Gates

Reuters, Thursday, February 1, 2007; 9:45 AM

BUCHAREST (Reuters) - Pirated Microsoft Corp software helped Romania to build a vibrant technology industry, Romanian President Traian Basescu told the company's co-founder Bill Gates on Thursday.

Basescu was meeting the software giant's chairman in Bucharest to celebrate the opening of a Microsoft global technical center in the Romanian capital.

"Piracy helped the young generation discover computers. It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania," Basescu said during a joint news conference with Gates.

"It helped Romanians improve their creative capacity in the IT industry, which has become famous around the world ... Ten years ago, it was an investment in Romania's friendship with Microsoft and with Bill Gates."

Gates made no comment.

Former communist Romania, which has just joined the European Union, introduced anti-piracy legislation 10 years ago but copyright infringements are still rampant.

Experts say some 70 percent of software used in Romania is pirated, and salesmen still visit office buildings in central Bucharest to sell pirated CDs and DVDs.

Foreign investors say Romania's IT sector is one of most promising industries in the fast-growing economy thanks to high level of technical education in Romania, low wages and the country's thriving underworld of computers hackers.

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard the president of my country say that on national TV.

[Husar]

Unfortunately what we have is a narrowing of the market. Very few options out their and the leaders are very much into the propriety stick one way or the other.

I would love to see a market where gaming and enterprise level computers could be a mix of any apps on any OS on any hardware... as long as each level had the grunt not the makers mark to run it.

There would still be a need for standardization or otherwise the programming work would be really hard I think. As it is now, there already needs to be optimizing for different hardware, by throwing more differences into the mix, the bugs may become more and more on certain configs.
Standardisation does have it's good sides after all.