Duchy of Bavaria

[lilirishman1986]

My Duke i support your actions whole heartedly against the heretical papist forces. I have and will continue to give you my full support to you within this house and Diet. I must remind you other members of the Diet that power flows from House Bavaria to the HRE and that we are the movers and shakers of this Empire.

All actions taken recently have been totally legalized by your own votes within the Diet. I motion that all of the House Bavaria stand behind these actions and our own house!

[Stuperman]

It is not the Job of the electors to support which ever war the they've been told to, it is their job to work in the best interest of the reich, and it's safe to say with our recent excommunication, and incursions by the Hungarians that this war is not in the best interest of the riech.

I encourage all electors not to support the motion put fourth by the 4th elector!

[nazgul3]

i scoff at your statements 4th Elector. I dont fight for you or my Duke now...i have come to terms with my God and duty. I fight for only the people of God and in no way will any man move me away from the light. God will protect me because I fear no death because He is with me wherever i may roam.

[TinCow]

OOC: In case you missed it, lilirishman1986, you are now Gerhard Steffen.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...6&postcount=11

[lilirishman1986]

ooc: whups missed that

[OverKnight]

A message arrives:

Sixth Elector, some of the points you make are valid, however, if you are going to complain, get your facts straight. Milan was the capital of the Milanese, not Genoa. Though I guess once I took Milan, it might have been for a short period.

Foreign occupation of a Bavarian city is regrettable, but it will be short lived. Genoa is serving nicely as a trap for Gregory. He is contained and we can finish him at our leisure. None shall escape the Kaiser when he attacks. All the Papal forces in Italy will be gone, strengthening our bargaining position with the next Pope.

[OverKnight]

A message arrives:

"5th Elector, for threatening the Emperor with bodily harm in plain view of the Diet, you will not be considered for advancement in civic rank or promotion to military duty in the Duchy of Bavaria for the next 10 years (5 turns).

You have the right to vote in elections and speak against me and the Emperor in the Diet, but I will not tolerate turning that Chamber into a tavern. The Diet exists to propose and debate ideas, laws and current events, it is not a place for violence or repeated threats of harm.

For the other Electors, whether you agree with my current actions or not, please keep the example of the 5th Elector in mind before you speak again in the Diet."

[nazgul3]

Well...Well.. Mein Bavarian electors you now see the punishment for speaking against tyrany. And since we are in the dutchy house i would like to challenge the duke to a contest to nullify my punishment. If i win my punishment is gone...if u win you will have my votes for all edicts u wish me to support...u have my word and since that is the only thing u cant take away... it is truthful so help me God.

[OverKnight]

A message arrives (those Italian couriers are fast):

"You can speak against tyranny all you want 5th Elector. Just don't threaten violence in the Diet again.

The Prinz has barred you from the Diet. Is he a Tyrant as well?

Apologize to the Kaiser if you wish to speak in the Diet again.

This matter is closed."

[nazgul3]

Sits in a chair and Drinks smiling at the bottom of his empty mug and mumbles to himself

Here's to whatever you are searching for at the bottom of your glass...May God have mercy on your soul.

Gets up and leaves a note on the table which reads

Dear fellow electors of Bavaria I do hope you are all well and do not fall victim to what has transpired this was never mein intentions. All this political debating has gotton to my head. I think i shall leave now and explore the outside reaches. I hear Spain is nice this time of year. I very much so would like to see England. Peace be with you all and may courage and glory be forever yours...

Yours Respectively
A servent of God



ooc: btw i am not leaving the pbm just gunna read everything and not comment

[OverKnight]

Sixth Elector,

A well thought out addendum to 1.6. It serves as an effective compromise between no conquest on one hand and unbound expansion on the other. If you have any other edicts in mind, propose them here, if I and the other Electors agree, we can post them as a Ducal edict.

Remember this is a space where Bavarians can talk somewhat freely amongst each other (and a few eavesdroppers). So if you have any thoughts on the current session, speak up.

OOC: Thanks for the quick draw on renumbering.

[OverKnight]

OOC: Stuperman, do you realize that you've been assigned an avatar? Just happened a couple of hours ago if you haven't caught up on the threads.

[lilirishman1986]

OOC: can anyone give me a quick rundown of whats going on in the last few days my computer unfortunately died

[OverKnight]

The time for the next Diet session quickly approaches, if it has not already begun. Fellow Electors of Bavaria, is there anything you would like addressed in the Diet with Ducal Edicts? I fear preparations for the Crusade have taken up much of my efforts, and I would appreciate your ideas.

Also, what should the goals of Bavaria be in the next term?

[TinCow]

Our Italian provinces are very restless and the Bavarian Household Army has been greatly weakened. Neither of these are areas that require legislation. The first requires only wise build queues from the Duke and the Counts and the second requires only a sympathetic Chancellor. However, these weaknesses show where I believe Bavaria's objectives should lie for this term: Consolidation.

Bavaria has expanded farther and faster than any other House in the Reich. At the beginning of my Stewardship, you will recall that I stated an objective that Bavarians should become the masters of Italy. Well, my brothers, we have achieved it. Bavaria now controls Milan, Genoa, Bologna, and Florence. We have more than enough lands to allow all of our Electors to be titled. Let us focus our efforts on restoring order to these provinces and making them the heart of European trade.

There are a few matters that I wish to propose legislation on, but I would like to think them over before committing them to words. I shall return when my ideas are more complete.

[Stuperman]

I think the most pressing issue on the home from at this time would be the desperate condition of our household army and the levels of unrest in the newly aquired italian cities.

Our Household army is a joke at the moment, I have one regement of crossbowmen, that has merely 2 men in it!!

[OverKnight]

Speaking of sympathetic Chancellors, Prinz Henry has announced his intent to run for the position. I had a small part to play in this, and it is only right the he receives the full support of this noble House. I ask all the Electors to back him.

Maximillian is correct, as usual, the needs you mentioned Gerhard can be met by our own resources or are required by law. The build queues I will set forth will take these concerns into account. The BHA will take the field again, most likely against the French or to help defend our new capital, and you will have your battles.

Gerhard, you have spent a great deal of time in Genoa, and I have need of your insights. Please send me a messenger with a provisional build queue for the city for the next 20 years (10 turns). If it's good, I will post it officially. There is more to being a high noble than battles, effective administration is key as well.

I would also like to officially thank Count Mandorf for his service as Chancellor. He guided the Reich through trying times with skill and perseverance. I am glad that with the Crusade we are on the same path again.

We have gained much, as Maximillian said, and now is a time to build and gather strength at home. Yet the Crusade will need Bavaria's continued support, in men, material and leadership. A strong Bavaria means a successful Crusade. Let us endeavor to have both.

[Stuperman]

I would also like to officially thank Count Mandorf for his service as Chancellor. He guided the Reich through trying times with skill and perseverance. I am glad that with the Crusade we are on the same path again.

HERE HERE!!! To Max!!! You succeeded where many capable men would have failed, the Holy Roman Empire owes you an incalcuable debt. And may unity reign once again in the house of Bavaria.

*takes a large drink of beer*

on to more serious matters, I worry about the sicilians, allies they may be, they are italian, like the venecians and the Milanese, and we both know how well they honoured alliances. I think a spy is necessary in naples.

[TinCow]

Sir Steffen, you are wise. I hope and pray that the Sicilians will remain our allies. We have been allies for many years and we are both excommunicated. Surely they will see that we must stand together against our enemies. Still, we have given them little support over the years and perhaps it would be a good idea to ensure their continued friendship. I would like to propose legislation to be put forward as a Ducal Edict:

Edict 6.X: The Reich will contact Sicily as soon as possible and grant them a gift of 200 florins per year for 10 years.

We have enough enemies already. That sum of money is a fraction of what it would cost us to defend the Reich against yet another enemy. Let us use the money to keep Sicily a friend. This will of course require the support of Duke von Kassel and two Bavarian seconds.

[OverKnight]

Count Mandorf's idea is intriguing. I believe one reason Sicily may have been excommunicated again is their refusal to reject their alliance with us. We must reward this while keeping our southern border secure. Rome will be threatened enough in the coming years with out adding another enemy.

I will propose it once I have two seconds from the Bavarian electors, I assume the Count will do so, all I need is another.

Please second here if you wish, and then I will propose the edict in the Diet.

[TinCow]

Since that Edict has been taken up by the Diet, let me propose two more:

Edict 6.X: The Chancellor is authorized to pay any monetary sum he deems necessary to achieve a ceasefire with the Papal States.

We will never be reconciled with the Pope as long as our war with him continues. I doubt that the Pope will accept a peace with the Reich until we give him a new city from which to rule, but we must at least try. I suspect the sum required would be outrageous, but we have two very capable men running for Chancellor and I do not believe they would make a commitment that would not be in the interests of the Reich. Let us at least give them the option of securing peace through monetary means if they believe that it is in our interests.

Edict 6.X: The Chancellor must attempt to secure Byzantine military access for the Crusade. Florin payment (single or tribute) is authorized for this purpose, at the Chancellor's discretion. If this cannot be achieved, the Chancellor must give the Byzantines a gift of 200 florins tribute for 10 turns.

While the Byzantines are heretics, the Reich has enough enemies at the moment. It would not be good if the Crusade were the cause of another war with a neighbor of the Reich. We should attempt to placate the Eastern Emperor so that the impact of our march through his lands is minimal.

[OverKnight]

Would not the Chancellor already have the power, unless restricted by an edict, to make peace as he saw fit? I might be missing something here, though.

The edict concerning the Byzantines is a wise precaution, I will propose it if another seconder comes forward from this house.

[TinCow]

It is true that the Chancellor would have to power to do so, but surely it would be useful for him to know that the Diet supports an offer of peace. The sums that may be required for a peace treaty could be extremely large. During my term as Chancellor, I personally would have been very hesitant to give the Pope 10,000 florins for a ceasefire without Diet approval. I would never dream of requiring such an amount to be payed, but I would like to make it known to the Chancellor that, if he believes such a payment is wise, the Diet will support him in the matter.

I realize that the Edict is not urgent or legally necessary. Accordingly, I only ask that it be considered as a Ducal Edict in the event that there is one to spare. If others are put forward that require that available slot, I shall withdraw my request for this one.

[Stuperman]

I will second the edict concerning the Byzantines, further war is not in the interest of the riech.

[OverKnight]

Very well, if someone wants to second this:

Edict 6.X: The Chancellor is authorized to pay any monetary sum he deems necessary to achieve a ceasefire with the Papal States.
Proposed: Maximillian Mandorf
Seconded: Otto von Kassel, ?

I'll propose it in the Diet.

[Stuperman]

I'm not sure I support that, I think rebuilding the military at home and suporting the crusade, is much more urgent than paying off the pope. We have many financial needs, and our treasurey although not skimpy, ceritanly isn't endless, maybe a series of trubutes instead of a lump sum?

I understand the need for peace with the church, but at present, there are bigger threats to the HRE.

[OverKnight]

The edict does not stipulate a lump payment. If the Chancellor wishes he can pay over the course of many years. Would any of the other Electors besides Gerhard consider seconding this? Or even making their thoughts known in general? (OOC: Bueller? Bueller?)

[Stuperman]

Apologies my Duke, the messenger didn't get though till after Voting had started, I would have supported the edict with that in mind.

[OverKnight]

Quite alright Gerhard, I believe Maximillian did not view it as a top priority, and neither did I. It is more than enough that you voted.

It was a rather odd session anyway, more Amendments than Edicts.

I will be posting build queues and BHA operational orders soon. (OOC: Once I'm back home) As the Commander, Gerhard, do you have any wishes as to how you want the army deployed? Keep in mind it might be tied up in garrison duty for a few years.

[Stuperman]

My Lord,

Thank you again for Command of the BHA, and for such bold orders, I will not disapoint.
I must raise an eyebrow of concern with your offer of Florence, I genuinely do not like the idea of Bavaria paying for the Kaiser's messes. Admitedly, if accepted, it would force peace in the southern front, something which hasn't been since Milan attacked Bern more than 40 years ago.

in light of this offer, why are we wasting men and resources on this grand excursion east? especially when the threat of attack is very real on every other front?

Not that I don't trust your judgement, I just fail to see your reasoning.