total war 4

[Brogie]

just wonder what you guys think the enxt total war should be?

i think napoleonic war would be good, with muskets, chosen men, dragoons, lancers.. and proper ship battles maybe

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think maybe the inclusion of guns and the new world shows CA's intention of bringing their TW series into the gunpowder period. I would guess the next TW game will be Napoleon: Total War. That would then probably be followed by R2TW. Although I think that a TW game set in the far east, perhaps the Three Kingdoms era, could also make an appearance.

[sapi]

I suspect that the next TW game (it's TW5 iirc) - if it is to be historical - will be set in the Napoelonic era.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the next one may in fact be fantasy, though.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the next one may in fact be fantasy, though.

They wouldn't do that to us would they?

[sapi]

Hard to say.

It must be tempting to go for some original IP, though - and personally, I could see a fantasy TW working very well, provided it was done in moderation (ie no space travelling dwarves with flaming longswords)

[Brogie]

I suspect that the next TW game (it's TW5 iirc) - if it is to be historical - will be set in the Napoelonic era.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the next one may in fact be fantasy, though.

it would be the 4th eara ,,,wich is what i was meanin...jap,, rome,, medieval,,the 3 so far

i hope its not fantasy.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Is the fantasy idea something to do with the Star Forts? I'm not sure exactly what they are, but I heard them mentioned appearing in M2TW somehow.

[Kobal2fr]

I suspect that the next TW game (it's TW5 iirc) - if it is to be historical - will be set in the Napoelonic era.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the next one may in fact be fantasy, though.

Hmmm, I wonder when I've heard that "next one's gonna be napoleonic warfare" line...
Ah, right : right after the release of every TW game since MTW

Me, I don't care, I've still got Fields of Glory tucked away somewhere But I'd say you're right and the next one is going to be fantasy - they wouldn't have included such a weird question in the polls without good reason. Then again, "fantasy" covers such vast universes... Wouldn't bet on Warhammer, since GW already has deals with other gaming companies. And Blizzard does its own thang, so no Warcraft : Total War either. Maybe Romance of Three Kingdoms ? Wasn't there some mythology thrown into that one ?

What I'd really, really love would be Belgariad : Total War . Taste fiery death, Angaraks !

OK, so that's probably not going to happen. One can dream.

[Brogie]

wonder if ww1 eara could be done with tanks, airships and planes...it would have to be like HOI2 where planes cant be on the map, only attack a certain range from a city or an airfield...build rader stations and aa on the map like forts and watch towers, and coastal defences

[Kobal2fr]

Hahaha, yeah, trenchwar : total war would be very exciting - tons of units with infinite "arrows" sniping at each other across the map. One dead every 4 hours (game time). Then someone charges and gets cut down in 2 seconds flat by massive arty and machine gun fire

[Rhyfelwyr]

What fantasy related question did CA ask in the polls? Also anyone know about the Star Forts?

I woulnd't mind a Three Kingdoms: Total War with some fantasy thrown in. In fact, that could be really interesting to play while still keeping the element of realism.

An official LOTR:TW would also be really nice. I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet really.

However, the Star Forts sound really futuristic. I hope we don't have lightsabers and laser guns total war.

[anders]

my money is on fantasy because of the poll question.

and I really dont see the big problem with a fantasy TW provided its some sort of grim, medieval-like setting with no silly magic and heroes and stuff. The only difference to the games we alrready love would be that historic units would be replaced with fantasy staples. I mean how much worse is it gonna be pitting ork pikemen against elven sword-dancers than pitting spear militia against feudal knights. And nobone will get to complain about historical inaccuracy.

and i really think fantasy, which should still be about melee and archery just like m2tw and predecessors, with the odd monster or fireball thrown in, would fit better to the TW formula than tanks and bombers.

[Heinrich VI]

i would prefer a "sort of remake" of RTW spanning a longer time period (multiple campaigns) and less focus on the romans. for example forging the old kingdom of egypt into a superpower, the rise of the assyrian empire, the proto-greek mykenian civilization and so on. all through the original timeframe to the era covered by BI and beyond into the dark ages until MTW2 takes over!

[Rhyfelwyr]

There will never be a TW game set in the 20th Century. It just wouldn't work in the engine.

Also, what was that question from the polls exactly?

[sapi]

If the next game were to be a fantasy one, I'm guessing it'd be with CA's own IP.

Moved to the EH, btw - this doesn't belong in the Citadel.

[Ser Clegane]

I would not expect any science fiction or WW1/WW2 game - as has been mentioned, it would require a new engine - also it would be a rather risky step away from the traditional fanbase (and perhaps would even fall out of the scope of what CA itself is interested in doing).

An Asian setting like "Three Kingdoms" could be interesting, but I do not think that it would be "mainstream" enough for Western markets to be economically feasible. Of course CA might be interested in targeting the Chinese market at a point, but I do not see that coming for the next 2 installments (if you would like to target e.g., the Chinese market it would probably make more sense to not develop a new game with a hardware intensive improved engine, but rather to create a "spin-off" that uses the current engine - perhaps even on RTW level - to reach out to customers in Chine who do not necessarily have high-end PCs)
"Shogun" is probably the only Asian setting that might address a large enough customer base in Western countries, but even that is unlikely (I would love to see it made though).
Perhaps CA will try to offer an Asian campaign as a downloadable mini-expansion at some point (like the Alexander expansion - they also asked in the poll if people would buy a downloadable campaign)

Napoleonic era might be a feasible option. How successful was "Imperial Glory" on the market (I did not follow that one)? If it flopped it might be to difficult to convince "management" that this would be a good idea.

I have the feeling that a fantasy setting or something like RTW2 is more likely than NTW (IIRC the poll question was something along the line of "would you buy a fantasy TotalWar game?" - I would have to check though).
For a fantasy setting I would expect that CA would rather create its own setting rather than licensing a setting.

[Odin]

As much as I would love a 3 kingdoms TW, I dont think it will happen.

CA and the Total war series are geared for global sales.

Fantasy, napoleonic, or WWII are pretty much guarantee sellers.

[Matt_Lane]

I think the fantasy and WWII markets are too flooded at the moment for TW to stand out. CA generally seems to have set its products in era's that its competition has not yet exploited (how many games are now set in the Roman period?) I do think the Napoleonic setting is a strong contender if the engine can cope with the change of bias from melee to gunpowder. Also the Spartan title might indicate they want to jump on the next generation gaming platform bandwagon.

For pure personal preference I'd much rather they took us back in time to the ancient civilizations of Eygpt, the Hittites and Mesopotamia.

[Didz]

There is a huge gap in the market for a decent combined Napoleonic Campaign/battle simulator. It is, or was, the most popular period for tabletop wargaming, so there ought to be a massive untapped market of players out there.

I've wasted a fortune on failed or partial attempts and it would be nice if the CA team could finally set the standard.

[Daaraa]

How about an expanded Mongol TW.

I'm thinking of the old KOEI Gengis Khan series. The map spanned from Japan to England. The AI shouldn't get all the fun playing the Mongols.

The challenge in that game wasn't in conquering but in managing your empire with disloyal, smart generals or not so bright, loyal generals. Basically you won if you owned 2/3 of Asia/Europe for 1 full turn.

[Odin]

How about an expanded Mongol TW.

I'm thinking of the old KOEI Gengis Khan series. The map spanned from Japan to England. The AI shouldn't get all the fun playing the Mongols.

The challenge in that game wasn't in conquering but in managing your empire with disloyal, smart generals or not so bright, loyal generals. Basically you won if you owned 2/3 of Asia/Europe for 1 full turn.

I played that game a lot "clan of the grey wolf" I believe. You could also play Richard the lion heart in one scenario as well.

Koei games are great to bad they dont make them for the PC in english.

anyway yeah, I would buy a CA title around the mongol period.

[diotavelli]

I do think the Napoleonic setting is a strong contender if the engine can cope with the change of bias from melee to gunpowder.

There are other issues of greater significance than just the move from melee to gunpowder and I feel these make a Napoleonic setting unfeasible without a completely new engine.

Central to Napoleonic history is the role of Britain and Napoleon's Continental System. Wellington's armies were largely a distraction in Iberia but the British navy and British industrial/commercial power were crucial. A Napoleon: TW that ignored Britain or relegated its role would work but wouldn't make sense; for a considerable period of Napoleonic history, Britain was the only European power standing against Napoleon.

The current engine might be able to handle the Continental System but I very much doubt it. Having French diplomats chasing British diplomats around Europe to prevent the Brits being able to get trade rights with anyone would be an OK feature of the game but, to be historically accurate, it would have to be central to Naploeon:TW (which would be dull) and far more complicated than now (which the current engine doesn't support).

Then there's the naval element. The current engine can't do naval battles. That means you'd have to decide the Battle of Trafalgar by auto-calc. The potential success of the Continental System or otherwise would likewise be something you could only affect by building as many ships as you could and then crossing your fingers: not very satisfying at all.

My personal preference would be for TW: the Indies. Including the Indian subcontinent, modern Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand, Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam, you'd have a wealth of territory, cultures, resources and religions.

Starting late-Mongol era, you'd have the opportunity to fight to establish your dynasty as the pre-eminent power in the region. You'd want to get trade links where possible but also gain converts to Hinduism, Buddhism or Islam, as appropriate. Control of India's cotton and minerals or the trade of the Spice Islands could make or break your economy. And the warfare would be constant, with gunpowder having been introduced from China by early 15th century. For an expansion, how about the arrival of the Portugese, Spanish, Dutch and British? Or a mini-campaign based around Chinese dominance in the early Ming period?

The market is definitely there: why would Westerners buy a title based on medieval Japan but not medieval Indies? And the fact that Asia makes up 60% of the world's population might persuade CA and Sega that this would be a good market for them.....

[Daaraa]

My personal preference would be for TW: the Indies. Including the Indian subcontinent, modern Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand, Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam, you'd have a wealth of territory, cultures, resources and religions.

Starting late-Mongol era, you'd have the opportunity to fight to establish your dynasty as the pre-eminent power in the region. You'd want to get trade links where possible but also gain converts to Hinduism, Buddhism or Islam, as appropriate. Control of India's cotton and minerals or the trade of the Spice Islands could make or break your economy. And the warfare would be constant, with gunpowder having been introduced from China by early 15th century. For an expansion, how about the arrival of the Portugese, Spanish, Dutch and British? Or a mini-campaign based around Chinese dominance in the early Ming period?

The market is definitely there: why would Westerners buy a title based on medieval Japan but not medieval Indies? And the fact that Asia makes up 60% of the world's population might persuade CA and Sega that this would be a good market for them.....

I'd go for that too. It would be interesting to see if you could revive the dying Khmer empire or make the Thai the dominate force in the area pushing out the Khmer and Vietnamese empires.

I'd be more inclined to purchase a TW title about Medieval Asia than a Napoleonic TW.

[Odin]

The market is definitely there: why would Westerners buy a title based on medieval Japan but not medieval Indies? And the fact that Asia makes up 60% of the world's population might persuade CA and Sega that this would be a good market for them.....

The market is there? I'm sorry but I dont believe it. I dont have numbers to back me up, but my instinct tells me that the "medieval indies" for game scope might not be a great seller.

The TW series arent nitch games, I concede Shogun lends credence to your presentation, but in all candeor the big sellers in PC military/strat games have always been Western Medieval, Roman, WWII, and american civil war.

the % of titles that fall into those categories speak to the viability of my claim.

[Psiloi]

I agree with diotabelli about the next TW, must be asian. But i think that his proposal can be expanded: Asian Total War. The time: 1150-1650 that is between the rise of the mongols and the arrivals of all the europeans with colonies there (Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, England and France), South Asia, plus East Asia (Japan of STW is about that age), plus the empires of the steppes and western Asia (until where?, all Balkans or Taurus mountains). Could be cutted around the Hindukush, exclude western Asia (with the western muslim empires appearing like the mongols...) and centered only around the eastern side. The map not a square but a circle. The time could be changed to 1350-1800.

[Didz]

The market is there? I'm sorry but I dont believe it. I dont have numbers to back me up, but my instinct tells me that the "medieval indies" for game scope might not be a great seller.

I agree.

STW got of to a good start mainly becuase people were inspired by the Samurai concept, and then built up from that initial beginning as news spread of how unique the gameplay was.

An Indies game wouldn't have either of those benefits. I suspect we TW'ers will buy it, but I doubt it would win many new converts.

The TW series arent nitch games, I concede Shogun lends credence to your presentation, but in all candeor the big sellers in PC military/strat games have always been Western Medieval, Roman, WWII, and american civil war.

Thats perfectly true, and is why I think the real market winner would be Napoleon Totalwar.

In wargaming the big four periods are WW2, ACW, Ancient and Napoleonic. Of these the only one which does not have a major presence in the PC gaiming market is Napoleonic, and yet it comes second in the pole of popularity.

A lot of companies have tried and failed to produce a good Napoleonic game but many have managed to crack part of the equation.

Diotavelli's, points are well made and care would definately have to be taken over the strengths and weaknesses of the various factions. The good news is that some games have already cracked that part of the problem. Crown and Glory for example, has a pretty good model for the ecomonic and diplomatic standing of the main factions which is largely driven by trade and the distribution of resources. If handled correctly Britain is cash rich but resource poor forcing it to concentrate on trade and winning friends through subsidies. France on the other hand is manpower heavy but short of money, at least at the start, and has to annex land in order to acquire the resourses it needs. That aspect of C&G works well, where it fails is on the campaign movement and logistic's side which ruins the credibility of the game. It also has an overbearing national morale system that denies the player control of his faction, bit like rebelling armies but on a national scale.

Naval battles could be a problem. But having said that nobody gets stressed about the inability to refight Lepanto, so why should Trafalgar be such a big deal.

[UltraWar]

The 4th Total War was Medieval Total War 2!

[Rhyfelwyr]

Yes, but as he said earlier he meant the fourth era, as Medieval appears twice. A TW game set in the Indies would never sell well. The series will always be European and sometimes maybe Chinese/Japanese based. I still hope for a Three Kingdoms: Total War. Even if there is a fantasy element to it.

[John_Longarrow]

Is the fantasy idea something to do with the Star Forts? I'm not sure exactly what they are, but I heard them mentioned appearing in M2TW somehow.

Star forts refer to a five sided structure made mainly of earth that is very resistant to cannon fire. They are designed around the concept of interlacing fields of fire and were the pinnacle of military engineering on the continent for a period of a couple hundred years.

Here is a link to the wiki entry on it. This also has a good picture of one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_fort


For myself, I'd love to see an alternate setting for the next TW product. Similar play to the current MTW2 but with a very different unit roster/history/campaign map. I'm not too interested in the "People in funny costumes" style orcs in some games, but it would be interesting to have a catapult shot come from your "Wizard".

[Didz]

Yes, if the next TW game includes Star Forts then I would assume that its going to be based in the 18th Century Horse and Musket wars as thats when the design of star forts reached its ascendency.