Coats of Arms

[econ21]

Deguerra, this is great work.

For Elberhard, his coat of arms should be based on the Imperial shield.

There are three elements that you could use to mix it up a little:
(a) England - he has a royal marriage to an English princess
(b) Swabia - his lineage
(c) Elephants - he has a thing about them!

[deguerra]

excellent. will get on it tomorrow after work

[FactionHeir]

I wouldn't mind a CoA but the problem is that my sig is already stuffed to the max. So the only time I'd actually be using them would be in the house thread and in the mausoleum/library.

If that's fine with you, I'd like the following:

For Hans:
Split the shield in three parts rather than two. left upper, right upper, lower. Not a rectangular split but a triangular one (i.e. the bottom third would form a triangle with its apex at the dead center of the shield.

Left upper: Swabia
Right Upper: Imperial (with a crown on the imperial eagle as Hans is a direct descendent of heinrich)
Lower: Christianity (i.e. Crusades)

Actually, feel free to change the order to whichever looks more suitable.
The center will be a single shield that is divided in two halves. One half being a horse and the other being a scale with a sword lying next to it diagonally.

Please make sure the center shield does nto overlap any icon of the main shields.

Oh, and I suppose you can put a Ducal crown atop the shield. Btw, I think except for Dukes and the Emperor, no-one used to have a crown on their shields in medieval times, right? They at best had a helmet on there.

Ehrhart:

Shield with 2 halves:
- Swabia
- Imperial

Imperial eagle not wearing the crown but have a crown there somewhere. To show that he isn't directly related but adopted.

Center shield can be lance and sword. Again, try not to overlap please.

No crown on top of the shield but a knight helm instead.

Thanks

[Privateerkev]

Hi Deguerra!

If you have time, and don't mind, I would like a coat of arms for Jan von Hamburg. Now, he is dead so please feel free to de-prioritize this request. This would just be to put in the Mausoleum with TC's permission.

I would like an Outremer shield as base with four sub-parts in the middle.

Top-left: a Crusader cross. Red cross on white background. Maybe a small number 2 and number 3 in this area signifying that Jan participated in the second and third Crusades.

Top-right: Imperial. Jan considered himself an Imperial administrator. In the corner of this part, please put a tiny all seeing eye that has a slash through it. This would signify his 32 year quest to stamp out the "Order" from Imperial politics.

Bottom-left: Edessa. This city was his first county and also holds sentimental value to Jan. In one corner should be a small Mongol shield with a slash through it. Next to it would be the number 3. This would signify Jan's participation in defeating the 3rd Mongol wave outside Edessa.

Bottom-right: Hamburg. Jan was a von Hamburg and his family came from this area. If you can find a von Hamburg CoA, use that for this section instead, otherwise, the Hamburg CoA will do.

I would like no hint of Franconia in this CoA at all. None. Zero. Zip.

I would like it topped off with a Crown that is smaller than the Duke/King crowns but bigger than the Count crowns. This is to show that Jan was King of Outremer for over 40 years but did not die as King since he resigned.

I do not mind if the CoA is "busy" and full of stuff. It fits Jan's personality anyways to have such a crowded CoA.

Thanks and please let me know if you have any questions.

[Dutch_guy]

How did I manage to miss this thread for so long ?

Excellent work you've been doing deguerra, hope you can find the time to do one for me - Tancred would owe you one, and he's a generous guy

Need to think something up though

[deguerra]

hey guys, had a long day at work so im not going to do anything tonight.

FactionHeir, you are somewhat correct. The coats of arms I am making are quite ahistorical. crowns and other design elements would only have been included in the greater arms, but that would have been much more elaborate than what im making. the lesser arms would almost always consist solely of the shield. i just thought the crowns gave a good indication of rank and so forth.

im not sure I have any helmets that fit with the sort of style of the crowns, but if I find one I will included it. but as I said, not tonight.

cheers
deguerra

[Warluster]

Thanks for the Coat of Arms deguerra! Its awesome!

Maybe I could have it in sig size... please?

[deguerra]

well since you asked so nicely :D

yeh sure, I just wanted to confirm you were happy with it:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

edit: econ21, hows this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

my only issue is the elephant, which is slightly out of place, and the lack of a crown

[econ21]

That looks good, Deguerra. I am not sure what the blue part represents - it looks rather French and we don't like the French over much. Sorry if I am missing something obvious. You are right the elephant may be out of place. It may be too silly an idea, although Elberhard is a bit of an idiot at times.

On possibility would be to stick a big crown on top of the shield - rather like Warluster's - but drop the blue part and the elephant. The smaller shield would then be half Swabian lions and half English lions.

[deguerra]

heyhey,

the english coat of arms in the 1400s consisted half of the arms of normandy (the lions on red) and half of the french fleur de lys on blue. it represented englands claim to the french throne. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E..._Arms_1405.svg granted, this may not really be relevant to our game, but i like the contrast. that being said the elephant could potentially go in that quarter.

another alternative is to put the elephant below the subshield below the eagle on the main shield. will play around with that.

the problem is that ie warluster's is a marquis' crown (which ive appropriated to mean counts crown) but in any case too low for the holy roman emperor :D

[econ21]

Hi, thanks for that! Now that I understand it, I am perfectly happy with the Coat of Arms.

If you could stick a big thumping crown on top of it, it will be better than perfect. Elberhard is not exactly subtle.

The wikipedia entry for Spanish heraldry has a nice King's crown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_heraldry

[gibsonsg91921]

May I please have one, kind sir?

Half HRE, Half Franconia, with a lion's head in the middle.

[deguerra]

hmm, only if you let me add something for castile on there somewhere :P

[Ramses II CP]

Fritz absolutely needs one of these. I'll bow to your wisdom on the topic, but as guidance I think i'd like a wingless griffin rampant on the right and maybe this Kastilien reference on the left:

http://www.flaggenlexikon.de/fspanksm.htm

No crown. I'm guessing it's possible to incorporate a brief motto? Is that period appropriate?

[gibsonsg91921]

oo yeah put some castile on it. take as many creative liberties as you want, i dont care - i just kinda whipped something up

[deguerra]

hmm long day again, im afraid, so no crafting today. FH is next in line, so ive got one question:

theoretically the double headed IMPERIAL eagle was only used by the emperor. the heir (and descendants) would be more likely to symbolise the empire the the single headed GERMAN eagle, that ive used at least on one coat of arms already.

once again, Im not really fussed with these things, but perhaps the single headed eagle (crowned if you want) would be better?

[FactionHeir]

Yeah, I was thinking of the single eagle. Double eagle is Germany/Austria afaik.

[deguerra]

ok here is my first attempt, and last for today:

the only thing I could not oblige was the subshield not obstructing any other elements. that means moving them too far to the size and resizing them, and it makes the whole thing look out of place and stupid. if you really want it, i'll do it, but trust me it looks much better this way:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

still looking for a good crown econ21, the one you sent me is good, but too small (image wise) so im trying to find a better version. tomorrow perhaps.

edit: FH regarding the eagles: youre kind of correct. the double headed eagle is KIND of for germany AND austria because it stood for the empire, which incorporated both. the double-headedness, AFAIK is to represent the emperors secular and religious power. because the austrians became hereditary emperors, the double headed eagle was then symbol of the habsburg monarchy until that died after ww1. the single headed eagle has always been a symbol of germany.

[FactionHeir]

Yeah, I remember as much from my history lessons many many years ago. Really confusing too. Might actually read something about this during my lunchbreak today.

Regarding the shield, it looks great so far. I think if you increased the shield's size overall somewhat (its smaller than other shields currently I think) and decreased the crown size, the center shield should obstruct less of the other elements hopefully.
As for the elements themselves, I very much like the way it looks. I would suggest mirroring the horse to face the right and maybe make th sword less glossy. I'm not sure whether its appropriate or not, but the crown on the eagle looks a bit too tall and thin, figure you could broaden it a bit and shorten it? Crusader cross looks fine although the color change is a bit drastic maybe. Maybe you can even make the scale's background and the crusader cross' background the same color?

Really apprecaite your effort so far!

[edit]
Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Germany

[deguerra]

hows this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

edit: good find! got to love wikipedia :D

[FactionHeir]

Much better. I like how it looks now.
Only resizing the shield to be larger and the crown on top smaller should allow for less overlap by the central shield.

[deguerra]

it IS currently the same as everyone else's. TBH I'm not sure if resizing the whole shield:crown ratio will work with my standard template, but I'll give it a try tomorrow.

good night all

edit: I swear to god its an addiction. econ21, what crown do you prefer:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...al_cerrada.svg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...oyal_Crown.svg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...n_of_Italy.svg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...nne_royale.svg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...es_V_Crown.svg

[econ21]

econ21, what crown do you prefer?

I like the Crown of Italy:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...n_of_Italy.svg

It may even be fitting, given the whole "King of the Romans" business.

[deguerra]

excellent and good point:

Eberhardt I, dei gratia Romanorum imperator selectus semper augustus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

edit: I was thinking the French part could also represent that Eberhardt has a claim to the French throne. I suppose that makes the english one kind of dangerous, although seeing as he married an english princess, i guess he does have a claim to that throne as well, just not as the first in line

[Shahed]

You are getting better and better at this ! Each one is better than the last. Good job !

Don't forget me, I'll pop you a request after you're done with this PBM, don't want to break your flow. Cheers ! ;)

[deguerra]

FH: the resizing thing will take time, so Im going to have to move on for now. If you really want it, I will do it, but I still think it will end up looking very silly.

Here is one for Erhardt, sorry, subshield is overlapping again, it simply doesnt really work otherwise.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Will now move on to Privateerkevs Jan (might do an Alfgarda as well, I liked her :D)

[Privateerkev]

Will now move on to Privateerkevs Jan (might do an Alfgarda as well, I liked her :D)

Aww, thanks!

I'm glad you liked her. She was fun to play. It can be refreshing to play a firespitter who can't really suffer politically. As for a CoA, I assumed she wouldn't get one because she was female, but if you insist, then it would be much like Jan's.

Same base and same four parts of the sub-shield but without the extra stuff Jan had. Something with motherhood instead. Plus a feminine crown since she was Queen of Outremer.

[FactionHeir]

I like that shield. Quite perfect although could you make the lance a bit thicker? At first sight it looked like another sword

Helm on top is suitable, although a wreath (or decoration for it) would be very much appreciated!

[deguerra]

yeh I was having trouble with the lance. It needs to be just perfect, will try to make it so. Wreath will be added as soon as I find a good one. Would some sort of little corwn do as well? I have a nice barons one, which might look good on top of that helmet? Its just a circulet, rather than a real crown?

[FactionHeir]

Yeah, sure. I am way too perfectionist anyway