Out of character thread XIX

[AussieGiant]

OK chaps.

Big night. This turn will end and we'll get to the offensive season of the next turn tonight.

I get the impression the first half of 1354 could be interesting.

Ok then 1352 is complete. It was sieging season it seems.

[FactionHeir]

Out of curiosity, were you able to retreat from the French attack at all?

[FactionHeir]

Hmm I just loaded the old save and ending turn allowed both Salza and the SHA to retreat from battle.

I would like to request that this be done instead of autoresolve as Warluster was not able to fight and it was not a vital battle that he would have had to fight.

As the new save is not yet modified, that should not pose a problem I believe.

[AussieGiant]

Riiight FH so guess what happens in the re-run when I retreat the Swabian Duke and his SHA?

Have a guess?

And once you've guessed, would you prefer I re run it until the future comes out in a favourable fashion?

[FactionHeir]

Other events might change ever so slightly with some degree of possibility, but nothing major I am sure.
Still, in the interest of fairness, I believe that since he was unable to fight a defensive (not an offensive) battle, he should be allowed to retreat. Other players have been allowed that as well.

[AussieGiant]

Other events might change ever so slightly with some degree of possibility, but nothing major I am sure.

I die....that seems quite a pleasant view from where I'm sitting.

Call me old fashioned but I'll stick with the first version of events.

https://i184.photobucket.com/albums/...3-13-27-00.jpg

[Zim]

He's attacked again but out of movement points so he and the whole SHA die?

Riiight FH so guess what happens in the re-run when I retreat the Swabian Duke and his SHA?

Have a guess?

And once you've guess FH, would you prefer I re run it until the future comes out in a favourable fashion?

[FactionHeir]

He's attacked again but out of movement points so he and the whole SHA die?

I think AG meant Arnold might die from plague.

I shall upload my end turn then where no one died from plague on ending turn and retreating.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1354-alt.zip

[Northnovas]

I think AG meant Arnold might die from plague.

I shall upload my end turn then where no one died from plague on ending turn and retreating.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1354-alt.zip

why is this whole Sawbia thing growing the way it is? The perfect moves could not be completed because a player is not available. Lets move on if something is lost we can get it back. Everyone wanted a challenge.
If this save was played on everyone's computer we would ended up with a variety of saved versions some good some not so good. Which ones do we keep?
1354 please.......

[FactionHeir]

why is this whole Sawbia thing growing the way it is? The perfect moves could not be completed because a player is not available. Lets move on if something is lost we can get it back. Everyone wanted a challenge.
If this save was played on everyone's computer we would ended up with a variety of saved versions some good some not so good. Which ones do we keep?
1354 please.......

Because AG ended up autoresolving the battle that could have been avoided by retreating. None of the Swabians actually wanted it autoresolved in the first place, so this pretty much went against the players' wishes even though it did not have to.

[Cecil XIX]

That's the first message I sent AussieGiant. My plot was to get Hapsburg married to Eue and then get Arnold to kill off Peter before Elberhard died, thus making Hapsburg Prinz. When Elberhard died, I would become Kaiser, and thus automatically assume the Chancellorship after Arnold had finished his term. I was then going to transfer the Imperial capital to Vienna, assign all Imperial lands to Austria, and attempt to reduce the other Duchies to vassalage. A shame that didn't happen...

Sorry to see you go, Ignoramus. It's too bad that plan wasn't able to get going, it would have made for a great set-up to a civil war.

[Northnovas]

FH I can see your point so what is the official save right now? The one by AG in the orders thread?

[Zim]

FH I can see your point so what is the official save right now? The one by AG in the orders thread?

I'd wait on AussieGiant's word before taking either save. Both he and Econ21 ruled in on the battle having to be autoresolved because the orders were given and Warluster was unable to fight the battle (and didn't put himself on reserve duty, in which case he'd not be put in such a situation). THere may have been a mistake made in that the Swabians (my own House) weren't given a chance to change their orders once apprised of the situation. If so I'm sure they'll address it.

I mean, it's tough enough being Chancellor, doing all that work, all the while knowing you'll be blamed for any mistake you make in-game in the IC threads. Compounding that by having players unilaterally making changes to the saves without permission just makes it worse.

[AussieGiant]

FH, at no time did anyone ask for a retreat at any point in this whole story even though I can only assume there was some considerable time spent looking at the save and assessing the options available.

Not one word was said since Wednesday afternoon and into that space Econ had spelled out explicitly the next step which was an auto-calc and still there was no word of requesting a retreat.

I end the turn, spend 90 minutes getting the thing written up, then you request a re-do.

I then re-do the turn because I see your point to a certain degree, of course luck would have it my character dies.

You then give me your save and say take that one instead.

At this point I have to say that the situation stands as is. The report is valid and the save posted there is the one we go on with.

It's not a major problem but just another set back.

-Edit-

The 24 hours starts now and I'll ask everyone to follow the rules in this regard because they are basically for everyone's protection.

If you take the save you fight...period, nothing more. Otherwise place your suggestions in the orders thread. OK for example uses a system that means there is little room for error when he needs something a little more complex...use that if you would like.

[FactionHeir]

No one mentioned the retreat option because Warluster cannot access the game and on my end when I first tried it, it didn't even come to any battle, therefore I couldn't have known that there was a retreat option.

However, as with any good judgement, when you see a battle screen pop up and you know the player cannot fight the battle and will most likely lose if autoresolved, you truly ought to press retreat if that is an option and previous chancellors have always done so without exception from my own knowledge.

Not blaming you, but if you had uplaoded the save at the pre battle screen and I had seen the retreat option earlier, I would definitely have spelt that out, but in some ways it should have been the obvious choice for you to make.

On the other hand, econ said autoresolve it because he also is unlikely to have known of a retreat option and if he did, he would have mentioned it.
So it really does kind of boil down to people not being able to actually see their options all the time. Using an analogy, if you ask someone if they want a banana or a car, how likely is it that this person or anyone else will answer "give me a watch"?

From my point of view, we already have prevented Warluster from fighting or having a proxy. There is little reason to also force a defeat and the pague upon him for an autoresolve that should never have happened in the first place.
Considering that no one has touched the save since, I also do not see any reason not to use the save I uploaded if you do not want Arnold to die (which is the other option).

Similarly, you would not have to spend ages on a new write up as there are no largely different events at all and I have sent you all necessary screenshots.

For the moment I would say that the save should be frozen until econ makes a judgement on this matter, because you already managed to infect the SHA without anyone with the authority asking for it and it was ruled in your favor already. I don't see why Swabia should take a hit a second time due to your doings without appeal.

[econ21]

Let's not make a drama out of a crisis. The Chancellor ended the turn and posted a report - we should not try to turn back time.

It is ok to retreat before battle to avoid an autoresolve, but it did not happen this time and so let's live with the consequences.

Not every move we make is going to be perfect - Elberhard would still be Kaiser if it were. We do our best but sometimes we slip up.

Reloading after a mistake is fine for individual's own private games, but I don't think it is what we want to start doing in a cooperative PBM like this.

[AussieGiant]

FH, Econ

FH, I will take your save and readjust the report to reflect the altered universe.

This is the final ripple effect of what I regard as series of events that have occurred from trying to have a whole Duchy plus multiple avatar's micro managed by you on behalf of Warluster for the most part. This is the final effect of this issue in my mind.

You're point has weight but it is not an overwhelmingly strong argument given the step by step issues we've had to "Manage" over the last two or three turns.

I've always tried to accommodate your wishes from the very beginning and I've given far more access to the save than anyone else because of the style of play you have which is incredibly detailed and shows an understanding of the game that is truly amazing.

You're a 1%er player FH, that means your in the top 1% in my mind, but you also play for that extra 1% on any and every move. You can't expect others to be even close.

I'm trying to be fair and stay conscious of how things can be perceived from another other sides of the coin.

You talk about "your" version of the save, and when things happened to "you" when "you" did it...I think the point needs to be made...I'm not interested in "your" version of events unless "you're" the Chancellor.

So if you want to make comments about my judgment, then l'd ask you to assess yours, from my point of view.

If you want to run the show, then get elected, otherwise it's not "your" version I think, I need, to use.

So that's the end of it...in more ways than one.

-Edit-

And just a open comment to all...please, pretty please don't bring up any altered events that put you in a worse position than the original save. If you do I might just go insane. And when I re-read the Chancellor's powers...then Igno comes to mind, plus I could defend nearly everything I do with an appropriate piece of legislation. :-)

And the 24 hours started yesterday...

Report is change and the new save is 1354-2 for anyone who wants it.

[FactionHeir]

Thanks AG. Since I'll be mostly absent for a week in a few days, you shouldn't have to deal with much there

[AussieGiant]

Thanks AG. Since I'll be mostly absent for a week in a few days, you shouldn't have to deal with much there

You're cheeky too

I don't want you not to be involved FH.

My best case scenario is you involved a lot, not taking a leave of absence from the game. I just want us to be able to find some ground on which we can work and have fun with this game. I'm conscious of the fact that you might not be having fun, and it's because of the way things have gone working with me on it.

Cheers.

[Warmaster Horus]

Sorry to see you go Ignoramus. Having that plot twist would have been quite something.

I might not be as active as before (my parents are suing a business, so they need the internet), but I'll still check in every couple of days.

[AussieGiant]

Hi All,

I'm going to end our Offensive season this afternoon and begin our defense this evening.

The parking lot around Milan would be nice to clear of at least the Greeks.

[_Tristan_]

Hugo de Cervole

I would rather remain tribune to the Legion der Krone than go north to Swabia at this time... unless you see it as truly necessary to the interests of Swabia...

[edit] OOps, wrong thread...

[AussieGiant]

Hugo de Cervole

I would rather remain tribune to the Legion der Krone than go north to Swabia at this time... unless you see it as truly necessary to the interests of Swabia...

[edit] OOps, wrong thread...

Put that in the Diet thread then I'll get back to you :-)

In fact unless taking the save or posting orders the it's best to be in the Diet rather than the Orders thread. Discussing strategy is going to just make the reports spread out over pages.

[AussieGiant]

FH,

I couldn't believe it either.

The movie came up and it was the same as the unsuccessful Breslau one for me, I thought, ok cool here is the successful version of this movie...

then I just shook my head in bewilderment as he got stabbed to death in the cart AGAIN.

[AussieGiant]

I could find you a hot date for the rest of your life GH!!

Your mother will be proud of you!!!

God, get em bowy!!

I didn't realise how much I've gotten into this game...

and bloody hell you better hope the reinforcements turn up. They didn't when I took a look. It went badly...I should have retreated...you both died and the army was destroyed.

[GeneralHankerchief]

That was the craziest battle I have ever fought in my Total War career. Without a doubt.

Reinforcements showed up... both major armies. Thank God, too, because we needed 'em. I'm still not sure how we won, because I missed about 2/3 of the battle focusing on my part.

Warmaster Horus, I'm so sorry, we lost Karolinger. I didn't even know it happened until after the battle. I know how it feels to lose a character when it's under somebody else's control.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm going to refight the battle later and try to take some appropriate screenshots to do this thing justice, but for now I need to rest. Again, really really sorry WH.

[Warmaster Horus]

It's no problem. At least I/he served a purpose...
I can understand how that kind of thing happens. I'll wait for the battle report.

[FactionHeir]

Does that mean I get to flame GH in the diet for once?

[AussieGiant]

Hi All,

No defensive battles. That concludes 1354.

I'm going to try and do my report in one big or two total posts this turn.

Any thoughts on how to split it up?

[Cecil XIX]

In fact unless taking the save or posting orders the it's best to be in the Diet rather than the Orders thread. Discussing strategy is going to just make the reports spread out over pages.

While I would prefer to discuss strategy in the Diet and House threads, I don't think that's the correct interpretation of the Orders Thread. You're basically saing that we can't discuss orders (which is what strategy is) in the orders thread. The Orders thread seems a little schizophrenic since the name change, I would prefer if it's newer functions were transfered to the Diet thread and it returned to being the 'Chancellor and Govenor Reports' thread.