It is your problem so you have every reason to be passionate about it, but I don't recall calling them victims, just for arguments' sake.
It is your problem so you have every reason to be passionate about it, but I don't recall calling them victims, just for arguments' sake.
You said they "had" to give these loans, which is a lie. Or at least a deliberate misrepresentation to fit your ideology. See my other posts about what kind of people were getting these mortgages before you try to play act like this was mommy government forcing the banks to give loans to poor people.
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
Let's go easier on the "lie" and "play act" bits, to ensure a civil conversation.
And I point out that Fragony is Dutch, merely joining the conversation with his point-of-view - and with no dog in this fight.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
If laws require companies to do something that was massively profitable for them, I would think you'd be in favor of that anyway. I consider this argument ridiculous to take out the profit motive and pretend these companies weren't making big bucks on signing the loans and then pawning them off. Everyone knows that's what was going on, anyone who works in financial fields in America anyway.
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
The real reason Washington Mutual failed
National Review's Mark Krikorian notes that (1) Washington Mutual became the largest bank to fail in American history yesterday and (2) its last press release touted the fact that it was named one of America's most diverse employers, having been "honored specifically for its efforts to recruit Hispanic employees, reach out to Hispanic consumers and support Hispanic communities and organizations"; for being "named [one of] the top 60 companies for Hispanics"; for "attaining equal rights for GLBT employees and consumers"; for having "earned points for competitive diversity policies and programs, including the recently established Latino, African American and GLBT employee network groups"; and for being "named one of 25 Noteworthy Companies by Diversity Inc magazine and one of the Top 50 Corporations for Supplier Diversity by Hispanic Enterprise magazine."
While juxtaposing these two facts -- (1) WaMu has a racially and ethnically diverse workforce and (2) WaMu collapsed yesterday -- the National Review writer headlined his post: "Cause and Effect?" He apparently believes that the reason Washington Mutual failed may be because it employed and was too accommodating to large numbers of Hispanics, African-Americans and gays. Is that why Lehman Brothers, AIG, Bear Sterns and so many others also failed -- too racially diverse of a workforce?
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
God, people are actually making that argument?
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
I haven't heard anything like that from anyone.
This is a funny column against the bailout. He's just a columnist, but they are as entitled to an opinion as any of us.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 09-27-2008 at 00:31.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Must be a Pat Buchanan disciple.While juxtaposing these two facts -- (1) WaMu has a racially and ethnically diverse workforce and (2) WaMu collapsed yesterday -- the National Review writer headlined his post: "Cause and Effect?" He apparently believes that the reason Washington Mutual failed may be because it employed and was too accommodating to large numbers of Hispanics, African-Americans and gays. Is that why Lehman Brothers, AIG, Bear Sterns and so many others also failed -- too racially diverse of a workforce?
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
They weren't forced to, and don't pretend that they were.
Also are you saying that these Hispanics, Gays and Blacks weren't the best people for the job?
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
Jeez. Show me the tapes of the interviews and the resumes of those who went for the job before I am can agree with you there. It is bigoted to say that without knowing or speaking with the people in question. That is a shame on both sides - the people who believe that AND the absurd policies that make that perception widespread.
I can't get on board with that.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Ever heard of affirmative action?
But they probably weren't forced in this instance.
I'm not saying anything about any group in reference to their individual ability.
What I'm saying is a company should focus on how good their employees are, and how a person looks has no bearing on that. Instead they chose to trumpet something unrelated to their business acumen. So this might be seen as them focusing more on political correctness than making sure there business, doesn't, you know, collapse and get sold off.
Heck, perhaps their employees were the very best, but if management is focusing on getting the ideal ratio of minorities hired, then they aren't focused as much on staying solvent, are they?
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Are you just looking for an excuse to be racist or something? I know you're not pretending that them hiring a bunch of black and hispanic and gay people to be loan brokers or tellers or bank managers had any bearing whatsoever on what the shareholders and executives were doing in closed meetings. With this mortgage crisis, let's see, so far poor people have been blamed, now minorities, next let's blame it on Al Qaida. Or maybe it was all those black people from Katrina. After they got evacuated they all went to work for Washington Mutual and ruined that too. Sounds good. We got this one solved. ;)
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
Actually, Koga, don't pretend to know what goes on in companies; I highly doubt you've been in any boardroom meetings.
If a company was pursuing plans to make good PR material and how to hire the people who looked right, then that definitely could impact what effort they could put towards staying solvent.
I'm not saying that's what happened, but its not inconceivable. Suprise - following lefties' little pet projects at companies could actually lead to bad results!
You got some sort of reading comprehension problem?So you're saying that WaMu failed because it was too focused on hiring minorities than good workers? Are good workers white now?
CR
Last edited by Crazed Rabbit; 09-27-2008 at 04:27.
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Un-backed Paper money doesnt work. It's inherently inflationary. It just DOESNT WORK!!! Has anyone here ever heard of Von Mises??? The problem is not interest rates or subprime loans, its the fact that the more FIAT currency you print, the worse things get.
Back the money with gold or silver. If you cant do that, find something! anything to back your money is better than NOTHING!!!
the only reason that the global paper money scheme has worked so far is that the american economy has kept things relatively stable. We all know that once the US Economy tanks, everyone else goes with it.
Does any other country back their money with something substantial anymore????
Last edited by AlexanderSextus; 09-27-2008 at 04:45.
Do you hate Drug Cartels? Do You believe that the Drug War is basically a failure? Do you think that if we Legalized the Cannabis market, that use rates would drop, we could put age limits on cannabis, tax it, and other wise regulate it? Join The ORG Marijuana Policy Project!
In American politics, similar to British politics, we have a choice between being shot in our left testicle or the right testicle. Both parties advocate pissing on the little guys, only in different ways and to a different little guy.
The problem was lack of regulation, period. It doesn't matter if you were giving subprime loans to hispanics, blacks, whites or purple people. Plenty of white people took bad loans, plenty of white people brokered bad loans, plenty of white Wall Street execs made money off making bad loans. Turning this into a race issue is a ridiculous argument and you rightfully look foolish trying to make it.
And while we're on the topic of board rooms, if you think you could walk into these companies that have flopped since last week and see a bunch of brown and black faces, it is you my friend who have probably never been to a board room meeting.
Last edited by Koga No Goshi; 09-27-2008 at 04:49.
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
How about this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Raines
How much does "CEO of Fannie Mae" fit in your percentages? Poor choice of direction for this argument.
Because this is just what the discussion needs, someone pulling out the race card. Leave race out of this, we don't need Sharpton getting an .Org account.
The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions
If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat
"Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur
Have you even bothered to read the discussion? I didn't pull out the race card. People are making the argument that these companies failed because of their policy of hiring minorities and boasting a diverse workforce. That is not just ridiculous as an explanation for the mortgage crisis, it is indeed racist.
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
It is inconceivable, because the recruitment department isn't connected to keeping the company solvent. Or to be more correct, it's about as conceivable as the companies going under because they spent PR on those tv-comercials posted here. While possible, it would require an insane stupidity to be anything more than a bad investement at worst.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
I've read it, and I think the article posted by CountArach is full of it. I know you didn't start with it, and it is indeed a ridiculous explanation. But you need to be a little more careful about generalizing the culprits as "white rich guys", when one of the main players in this does not fit that description. It only hurts your argument and gives the impression that you are not very informed on the subject matter.
The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions
If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat
"Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur
Something posted as a joke really took this places...
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
What do you mean posted as a joke? I could post links to stories where Margaret Sanger said that the U.S. needs abortion on demand in order to control minority population birth rates. It doesn't mean that all people who support abortion support negative racist eugenics. If they are true, though, then they aren't jokes.
I appreciated the post. Sometimes it is best to understand underlying corruptions in thought that might hold your message back from a wider acceptance. I believe that promoting people based on things that shouldn't have a role in the decision speaks more to bad business practices than anything about minorities. Affirmative action is part of the problem because it is a bad idea for everyone, but I can't blame the employment of minorities for the market crisis. White accountability, respect and intelligence in business has plummeted recently - so we shouldn't be looking for any excuse to pass the buck onto people who largely don't make the decisions.
"Let all of the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out"
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 09-27-2008 at 15:16.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Bookmarks