Democrats Struggle to Rein In Constituent Advocacy Group

[Don Corleone]

In 1991, Justice Roberts, then arguing as a staff lawyer for the office of the Solicitor General in the first Bush White House, argued that the Ku Klux Klan Act did not apply to abortion clinic protestors. Seven years later, one of the protestors bombed an abortion clinic in Montgomery, Alabama.

NARAL has produced a television ad claiming that Justice Roberts defended the bomber and supports clinic bombings. It's being aired on CNN, FoxNews and two local stations in Rhode Island & Maine (states with pro-choice Republican senators). The message of the ad: "Tell your senator not to vote for a Supreme Court justice that supports clinic bombings".

CNN, in defending it's decision to air the ad, has agreed that the ad is factually inaccurate, but defends the right of NARAL to be factually inaccurate in it.

The non-partisan Accuracy In Media center, at the University of Pennsylvania, condemned the ad as having no basis in fact and being an unwarranted personal attack.

Here's the funny part... it's the Democrats that are scrambling to get it pulled... Can't have the country realizing that the Abortion Rights groups really are a bunch of nutjobs. I suspect that's why FoxNews is agreeing to air it, myself...

Links:
The Associated Press
The New York Fishwrap

[Strike For The South]

some people are dore losers

[ichi]

Can't have the country realizing that the Abortion Rights groups really are a bunch of nutjobs.

Yeah, those crazy abortion rights folks, going around blowing up things and yelling 'murderer, murderer' to young women as they enter. . .

oh wait, those are anti-abortion nutjobs.

ichi

[Don Corleone]

Ichi,
Come on, even the most ardent pro-choicer has to agree this ad is way, way, way out of bounds. He filed a brief saying that he didn't think the "Ku Klux Klan Act" applied to abortion clinic protestors (protestors, not bombers), so he supports abortion clinic bombers?

I'm pro-choice in the first trimester. But this is assanine. If you remember that far back, this all came from the big debate over whether or not the government had the right to establish a 500 foot perimeter around abortion clinics as a 'no-protest zone'.

Ichi you're usually very reasonable, so your opinion in this will actually make me go back and readdress my own views. Do you really believe that Roberts supports abortion clinic bombers, based on his filing of that legal brief? Do you think even NARAL really believes that?

[ichi]

I never said that I opposed Roberts, or that I support the ad, or the group.

I was just pointing out that you calling abortion rights advocates 'nutjobs' was pretty silly, given the anti-abortionists actions and stances. The whole issue is crammed with extreme, so why deride one side?

ichi

BTW I do oppose Roberts, for his views on the environment

[Don Corleone]

I suppose I should have been more clear with my terminology. I am an abortion rights advocate, in a certain sense. I meant that I think NARAL & Planned Parenthood & Feminist Majority have lost their center of reason....

[ichi]

We are prolly very close in our approach to the issue. I am personally opposed to abortion, but think it not the business of government to prohibit it. I do think that we should not be aborting fetuses that could survive outside the womb (3rd trimester, partial birth, etc).

My hope is that technology will save us from the intense debate. If we could remove embryos and fetuses (feti?) from wombs intact, and rather than aborting them give them to women who wanted them (or incubate them en vitro), then maybe we could reduce the clamor.

ichi

ps the politics of personal attack and the polarization of this country have caused a lot of folks to lose their 'center of reason'

[Goofball]

In 1991, Justice Roberts, then arguing as a staff lawyer for the office of the Solicitor General in the first Bush White House, argued that the Ku Klux Klan Act did not apply to abortion clinic protestors. Seven years later, one of the protestors bombed an abortion clinic in Montgomery, Alabama.

NARAL has produced a television ad claiming that Justice Roberts defended the bomber and supports clinic bombings. It's being aired on CNN, FoxNews and two local stations in Rhode Island & Maine (states with pro-choice Republican senators). The message of the ad: "Tell your senator not to vote for a Supreme Court justice that supports clinic bombings".

CNN, in defending it's decision to air the ad, has agreed that the ad is factually inaccurate, but defends the right of NARAL to be factually inaccurate in it.

The non-partisan Accuracy In Media center, at the University of Pennsylvania, condemned the ad as having no basis in fact and being an unwarranted personal attack.

Here's the funny part... it's the Democrats that are scrambling to get it pulled... Can't have the country realizing that the Abortion Rights groups really are a bunch of nutjobs. I suspect that's why FoxNews is agreeing to air it, myself...

Links:
The Associated Press
The New York Fishwrap

Okay, lemme get this straight: a constituency group airs an ad that's factually inaccurate, the Democrats are trying to stop the ad, and you hammer the Democrats for trying to stop it?

What should the Democrats have done?

And, like Ichi, I also find it quite ironic that in your own post, you talk about anti-abortion people bombing clinics, then go on to refer to abortion rights advocates as "nutjobs."

Hmmm...

What's worse? Telling lies or killing people?

Let me think about that one for a while...



Oh, wait! Got it!

Killing people!

[Don Corleone]

Okay, lemme get this straight: a constituency group airs an ad that's factually inaccurate, the Democrats are trying to stop the ad, and you hammer the Democrats for trying to stop it?

What should the Democrats have done?

And, like Ichi, I also find it quite ironic that in your own post, you talk about anti-abortion people bombing clinics, then go on to refer to abortion rights advocates as "nutjobs."

Hmmm...

What's worse? Telling lies or killing people?

Let me think about that one for a while...



Oh, wait! Got it!

Killing people!

I'm not hammering them. I'm highlighting the games that go on so folks such as yourself don't continue to claim it's only Republicans that have a lunatic fringe.

And your comparison is a fallacy as you ARE defending the liars, I AM NOT defending the abortion clinic bombers.

As I mentioned and I know you read, as you quoted me, I am not saying all abortion rights advocates are nutjobs (if for no other reason, that would be self-reproach). However, I do condemn NARAL for running this ad. I find it interesting to note that you cannot bring yourself to condemn the ad, you resort to a false comparison between those who created the ad and abortion clinic bombers, even though neither Justice Roberts nor myself have defended their actions.

It's not relevant to the issue at hand, but I categorically condemn the act of bombing an abortion clinic (because I've got a good handle on what your next post is going to say).

[PanzerJaeger]

and yelling 'murderer, murderer' to young women as they enter. . .

Whats wrong with calling a spade a spade?

[Goofball]

I'm not hammering them. I'm highlighting the games that go on so folks such as yourself don't continue to claim it's only Republicans that have a lunatic fringe.

Don, I have certainly never claimed such a thing, as it would be quite obviously wrong. Just take commies for example: They (IMO) are the fringe of the left, and they have nutjob ideas about almost everything.

And your comparison is a fallacy as you ARE defending the liars, I AM NOT defending the abortion clinic bombers.

Speaking of fallacies...



I was defending the Democrats, not the abortion rights group. The Democrats, as you said yourself, are trying to stop the liars.

And the link I made in terms of irony was no fallacy. Referring to one group as nutjobs when you have just been talking about that group's antithesis blowing up buildings definitely has a ring of irony to it.

As I mentioned and I know you read, as you quoted me, I am not saying all abortion rights advocates are nutjobs (if for no other reason, that would be self-reproach). However, I do condemn NARAL for running this ad. I find it interesting to note that you cannot bring yourself to condemn the ad,

Actually, I acknowledged in my post that the ad was inaccurate and that the creators of the ad were telling lies. I am honestly beginning to think you don't read my posts before replying.

you resort to a false comparison between those who created the ad and abortion clinic bombers, even though neither Justice Roberts nor myself have defended their actions.

First of all, there is no such thing as a "false comparison." And secondly, please read my post again. Nowhere in it did I say you or Roberts had defended the actions of the abortion clinic bombers.

It's not relevant to the issue at hand, but I categorically condemn the act of bombing an abortion clinic

That's good to hear, and please believe that I never, ever for a second believed you would have supported it in the first place.

I also categorically state that the left has just as many nutjobs as the right does.

Friends again?

[Don Corleone]

Never not.

My point in starting this thread, believe it or not, was not to tar & feather the entire pro-choice movement, of which, to a limited extent, I am a member.

It was to highlight just how anxious to Bork anybody Bush puts up those on the far Left of the Democratic party are.

We can continue to go around and around about who implied what when, but honestly, I need to take a breath because I smell another another gun control thread just around the corner....

[Goofball]

Never not.

Good to hear...

Don, I know that somehow one of these days you and I are going to end up in the same pub together. Man, that'll be a good discussion. And think of all the beer we'll go through...

My point in starting this thread, believe it or not, was not to tar & feather the entire pro-choice movement, of which, to a limited extent, I am a member.

It was to highlight just how anxious to Bork anybody Bush puts up those on the far Left of the Democratic party are.

Agreed. (BTW: Love the use of "Bork," it almost sounds like something you wouldn't be able to say at the dinner table)

We can continue to go around and around about who implied what when, but honestly, I need to take a breath because I smell another another gun control thread just around the corner....

Where?!?... Where!?!

*puts on game face*

[drone]

We can continue to go around and around about who implied what when, but honestly, I need to take a breath because I smell another another gun control thread just around the corner....

Where?!?... Where!?!

*puts on game face*

Someone just started one in the Main Hall. Title: guns? good or bad?

[Don Corleone]

It's just that I've noticed something of a cycle here in the backroom...

Funny you say that Drone. I was thinking "Who the hell moved this out of the backroom" when I saw it too. Turns out, he actuallyplays the game and was asking about the relative game merits of guns versus arrows.

[drone]

I was thinking "Who the hell moved this out of the backroom" when I saw it too. Turns out, he actuallyplays the game and was asking about the relative game merits of guns versus arrows.

I was waiting for someone to throw a knee-jerk post in there, without even reading the thread. That would have been good fun. Looks like Azi has requested a title change though.

[Red Harvest]

Don,

I came across this link, which is complaining about 1981 opposition to renewal of the Voting Rights Act which is connected with the Klan Act. Roberts and the Ku Klux Klan Act

Don't know if it is correct, but it is saying is that his part in opposing the Act is a bit broader than you (or NARAL) are saying with the later Abortion Clinic rulings.


And for the record, I'm not necessarily opposed to the guy, with Dubya we could probably get a lot worse--someone about as well matched to his job as Bolton for instance.

[ichi]

Whats wrong with calling a spade a spade?

Maybe, like the song says, you'd have to walk in the young woman's shoes, to know what its like to have to choose.

To be part of an angry mob shouting rhetoric at strangers, hateful mean hurtful things, at a time of their deep personal crisis, that's not calling a spade a spade, that's vicious, arrogant, and IMO an indication of being a nutjob.

Callousness is unbecoming, my friend. It doesn't suit you. I know that you have a kind heart.

ichi

[Don Corleone]

Well, a couple of observations...

First, I hate to do this to you, but in all fairness, I really have to question the source. The Online Journal and Progressive Press seems pretty dedicated to an anti-Bush agenda. Were what they printing so 'rock the boat' controversial as the author would have you believe, wouldn't MSNBC, CNN and some of the other more mainstream Democratic media outlets be running it? I mean, if you guys won't accept NationalReview, which to my knowledge has never had to publish a retraction, I sure can't accept that.

Second, even if it's true, the briefs Roberts filed while working as an attorney for a client give you little, if any insight into their jurisprudence. They are legally and ethically bound to represent the client to the best of their ability, regardless of their personal views. Do you really think female defense attorneys believe 'women deserve to get raped due to their promiscuity'?

Finally, there's nothing in the article that suggests Robert argued against the Voting Rights Act of 1965 we all know and love. He argued against strengthening it to the point where a proven unintentional denial of franchise would be considered a criminal act. In other words, if enough ballots weren't at a polling station, though an honest mistake, the local elections board could be headed off to jail. Hardly seems fair.

You know, two observations on Roberts. 1) I'm surprised Democrats are fighting against him. Most of his pro bono work has been on causes they pay lip service to, if not openly endorse & support 2) If anybody should be feeling queasy about his jurisprudence, it should be conservatives. Scalia/Thomas he ain't.

If you guys think the Backroom can handle it, I'll post a link to a hysterical fake blog that parodies the anti-Roberts efforts. I find it quite entertaining, but it might hit a little too close to home for some folks, so I'll hold off posting it for now.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

The reason the Dems are trying to reign this in is they know its insane. They dont wish to look any stupider than they already have made themselves look.

[PanzerJaeger]

Maybe, like the song says, you'd have to walk in the young woman's shoes, to know what its like to have to choose.

To be part of an angry mob shouting rhetoric at strangers, hateful mean hurtful things, at a time of their deep personal crisis, that's not calling a spade a spade, that's vicious, arrogant, and IMO an indication of being a nutjob.

Callousness is unbecoming, my friend. It doesn't suit you. I know that you have a kind heart.

It would be cruel to shout down a homosexual with aids going into a treatment clinic. I may not agree with his lifestyle, and I may even think that lifestyle contributed to his current condition, but hes in a life threatening situation that he didnt plan for.

However, I really dont see what is cruel about telling a young woman who is not in danger of losing her life, and who clearly has other options, exactly what she is doing.

I cant find any sympathy for a girl who commits such a horrible act simply for her own selfish intentions.

Who is the real victim here, who needs our sympathy and compassion? In my opinion, the girl getting shouted at has the better end of the deal - at least she'll walk out of that clinic alive.

[Red Harvest]

I actually haven't seen all that much evidence that the Democrats as a whole are fighting him. Certain interests no doubt are, no surprise. You forget, the Democrats aren't like the GOP, they don't act as a bloc in most instances. I've not seen any wholesale move to oppose Roberts. Looks to me like standard going through the motions to see if anything pops up. There is less public record, so it means they have to do more digging to gauge him.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The reason the Dems are trying to reign this in is they know its insane. They dont wish to look any stupider than they already have made themselves look.

If the ad makes Dems look stupid, then clinic bombings make the Republicans look like terrorists. At least it would if you couldn't pass up an oppurtunity to insult your political opponents.

[Al Khalifah]

Maybe, like the song says, you'd have to walk in the young woman's shoes, to know what its like to have to choose.

They shouldn't have to choose, because in the vast majority of cases the choice just shouldn't be there in the first place. Another case of members of our society's blatant inability to take responsibility for their own actions and willingness to resort to the intolerrance card as soon as you try to stop them doing whatever they want.

Like the Ammendment To Be song says:
'cause there's limits to our liberty
At least I hope and pray that there are
'Cause those liberal freaks go too far

[Red Harvest]

First, I hate to do this to you, but in all fairness, I really have to question the source. The Online Journal and Progressive Press seems pretty dedicated to an anti-Bush agenda. Were what they printing so 'rock the boat' controversial as the author would have you believe, wouldn't MSNBC, CNN and some of the other more mainstream Democratic media outlets be running it? I mean, if you guys won't accept NationalReview, which to my knowledge has never had to publish a retraction, I sure can't accept

That's why I commented that I didn't know about the source or its veracity. However, it seems to be a different take on some of the same issue. The devil is in the details, so without actual documents and such to look at I can't tell if it is all spin or what. I did check the dates vs. the Roberts bio before I posted it, and the bio info suggests it is *plausible* based on dates. I did find the same article on another site as well but I didn't find anything that really addressed what was said.

Why would you be surprised by a lack of coverage? There isn't much news in the link I posted, not really sensational, while someone screaming about abortion clinics is sure to draw attention. Voting rights? Boring. Abortion clinics bombing? Exciting.

[Red Harvest]

If the ad makes Dems look stupid, then clinic bombings make the Republicans look like terrorists. At least it would if you couldn't pass up an oppurtunity to insult your political opponents.

Since the Democrats are opposing the ad, it actually lends quite a bit of credibility to them. Dubya was never keen to refute blatant lies in some of the political group campaign ads...even when McCain in his own party was commenting that he should condemn them.

[PanzerJaeger]

The democrats cant be compared to President Bush. The former is a party, the latter is a man.

It would be better to compare him with John Kerry. I didnt see him rushing to refute any of the slander that his side produced during the election.

[Steppe Merc]

Whats wrong with calling a spade a spade?

Because there is nothing murderous about aborting a fetus in the first trimester. If the woman is 8 months pregnant, then it gets a bit vague. But in this case, I think it's more of calling a clubs a spade.

As for lying things, is this an official Democrat ad? Because if not, than it's just the stupid groups fault. And secondly, all poltical parties lie when it comes to political commercials, so it's nothing new. And a lie is a lie, and I don't think it quite qualifies as freedom of speech...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

THeve pulked the ad.

Since the Democrats are opposing the ad, it actually lends quite a bit of credibility to them

Well it proves there not totally insane

Again they know theres no basis in fact here.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, that's good. It seems some of the rabid folks on the left are just frothing at the mouth to get anything on Roberts they can.

And Don, could you post that link? Or PM me if it would be throwing a match into a bathtub full of gas.

Crazed Rabbit