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Thread: 4-D shapes

  1. #1
    Lesbian Rebel Member Mikeus Caesar's Avatar
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    Default 4-D shapes

    http://fourd.ytmnd.com/

    I tried imagining holding one in my hand and my brain melted.

    Seriously - what the hell!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranika
    I'm being assailed by a mental midget of ironically epic proportions. Quick as frozen molasses, this one. Sharp as a melted marble. It's disturbing. I've had conversations with a braying mule with more coherence.


  2. #2
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    4D objects projected on a 2D plane ? Bound to get weird...
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    Lesbian Rebel Member Mikeus Caesar's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    http://universe3d.ytmnd.com/

    4D objects had one weakness...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranika
    I'm being assailed by a mental midget of ironically epic proportions. Quick as frozen molasses, this one. Sharp as a melted marble. It's disturbing. I've had conversations with a braying mule with more coherence.


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  5. #5
    The Blade Member JimBob's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    What is the first dimension? A single line going to infinity in both directions, how do you split it in half? A single point.

    What is the second dimension? A plane streaching to infinity in all directions. How do you split it in half? A single line (1D object).

    What is the third dimension? A cube streaching to infinity in all directions.
    How do you split it in half? A plane (2D object).

    So what is the fourth dimension? Something that could be split in half by an infinitley large three dimensional object.
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    Quintus Libo / Austria Member Glaucus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    If you think about out, there is nothing 1D in the world... everything has at least 2 dimensions if you keep magnifying it.
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    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Well, theoretically point masses should exist in fewer than 2 dimensions. But they're not really observable at present, if they exist.

    Ajax

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  8. #8
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Anybody here ever read Flatland?

    Brilliant little book!
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  9. #9

    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    4-d shapes. I was expecting something completely different.
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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Quote Originally Posted by currywurry
    http://fourd.ytmnd.com/

    I tried imagining holding one in my hand and my brain melted.

    Seriously - what the hell!?
    Actually there's no problem holding that object. It will simply look like a cube. Where it get's weird is if the object moves through the fourth dimension, as it will suddenly disappear when the cube no longer has a volume in our 3-dimentional space.
    A ball is even weirder as it will look llike a regular ball that'll continue to grow/shrink as it passes through our space.

    Atleast that's my understanding comparing 2-D with 3-D and applying the changes into 4-D.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  11. #11
    Simulation Monkey Member The_Mark's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    http://www.kleinbottle.com/
    Get yours today.

  12. #12
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    The 4th dimension is time.

    That object at the end only had 3 spatial dimensions.
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 09-11-2006 at 18:36.

  13. #13
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    At first, I thought 'what a sham, they just stretched a cube to make it seem to go into a new dimension, it's still actually just 3-d.' Then I realized, 'no it's actually still just 2 dimensional, as the third is an optical illusion, or perhaps symbolism of depth.' In that sense, stretching the cube of course doesn't make it an actual 4 dimensional object, but with the 4th dimension being time it makes as much sense to let that final stretching represent motion in time as it does to to let the previous one represent motion into a 3-dimensional space.

    Hmm, hope that made sense.

    Ajax

    edit: In fact, imagining holding a 4-d object in your hand shouldn't be a problem, as technically everything you've ever held in your hand has been 4-dimensional (or more if you're into string theory, but I'm not going there). A pencil not only has 3 spatial dimensions, but exists as time changes as well.
    Last edited by ajaxfetish; 09-11-2006 at 17:46.

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    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

  14. #14
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    At first, I thought 'what a sham, they just stretched a cube to make it seem to go into a new dimension, it's still actually just 3-d.' Then I realized, 'no it's actually still just 2 dimensional, as the third is an optical illusion, or perhaps symbolism of depth.' In that sense, stretching the cube of course doesn't make it an actual 4 dimensional object, but with the 4th dimension being time it makes as much sense to let that final stretching represent motion in time as it does to to let the previous one represent motion into a 3-dimensional space.
    I understand what your saying.

    If you think about it, its on a monitor, so it only has length and hight plus time, so it is only has 3 dimensions.

    or more if you're into string theory, but I'm not going there
    That would be fun, until it kills half of the Org.
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 09-11-2006 at 18:41.

  15. #15

    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    I remember watching something that said the 4th dimention is time, lol. Probably some bad sci-fi though and not anything real.

  16. #16
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    Actually there's no problem holding that object. It will simply look like a cube. Where it get's weird is if the object moves through the fourth dimension, as it will suddenly disappear when the cube no longer has a volume in our 3-dimentional space.
    A ball is even weirder as it will look llike a regular ball that'll continue to grow/shrink as it passes through our space.

    Atleast that's my understanding comparing 2-D with 3-D and applying the changes into 4-D.
    That's if you'd put a 3D object in a 2D world 4D is different. I've found animations about this a long long time ago (I think a year or two) in which showed the 4D equivalent of the 3D cube. It's intresting but verry hard for me to really underdstand it and stuff. Try google, you'll find something.
    Also there's that book about 10 dimensions (with time as the 11th) tough I think it's bullocks really. (also has a website with animations)

  17. #17
    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Stretched in the 4th spatial dimension.

  18. #18
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Bah, all this talk of 3 and 4 dimensions is codstwaddle. Everyone knows there is only 2.
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  19. #19
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    I remember watching something that said the 4th dimention is time, lol. Probably some bad sci-fi though and not anything real.
    Time is the 4th dimension.

  20. #20
    ............... Member Scurvy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    time doesnt exist :)

  21. #21
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor
    Time is the 4th dimension.
    Err... not really. The other three dimensions are measurements of space, so why would the 4th one be time? No credible argument can back up the claim, but hey, you aren't even providing any kind of an argument at all anyway!

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  22. #22
    Son of a Star Member Bar Kochba's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    i think the bottle is more entertaining then the 4D
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  23. #23
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bar Kochba
    i think the bottle is more entertaining then the 4D
    Have you seen those weird mugs? Now THEY are confusing.
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  25. #25
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor
    Time is the 4th dimension.
    Time is a property of a universe just like space is one. Both properties have their dimensions. In theory both can have an unlimited number of dimensions, time for example has as far as I know ulimited dimensions. "time doesn't exist." The times, one single time that is the same for anywho anywhere doesn't exist. Time is relative remember that experiment with clocks in a moving train? (or how was it again?) Anyway the amount of space dimensions in our univers is unkown at the moment. Scientist already claim to have discover some with experiments (Zwitserland?) and not so long ago a book and it's site is claimng there'll be 10 dimensions (more based on philosophy then science?) and claims that time is the 11th dimension.

  26. #26
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    10 dimensions (more based on philosophy then science?) and claims that time is the 11th dimension.
    I think that is string thoery.
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 09-11-2006 at 21:09.

  27. #27
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    The concept of space-time is valid but I think that it is simply changing the definition of dimension. In this context, a dimension is the measurement of the axes of space.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...sion&x=56&y=15

    So while time and space do go hand in hand, I think the association between time and the other three dimensions does not bear enough of a connection for time itself to be called a dimension.
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  28. #28
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxfetish
    At first, I thought 'what a sham, they just stretched a cube to make it seem to go into a new dimension, it's still actually just 3-d.' Then I realized, 'no it's actually still just 2 dimensional, as the third is an optical illusion, or perhaps symbolism of depth.' In that sense, stretching the cube of course doesn't make it an actual 4 dimensional object, but with the 4th dimension being time it makes as much sense to let that final stretching represent motion in time as it does to to let the previous one represent motion into a 3-dimensional space.
    That's why I never called that object not 4-D as I've got no idea how that illusion would look like. I know it got the basics right. Extending a 3-D cube gives another cube as extra corners so to say. Every time the dimension increases, the edges dubbles in number and an equal strukture forms into the new dimension, like in thier demonstration.

    And it's 3 room-dimensions and 1 time-dimension, they're separated you know. Wonders if time is actually only a 0,5 dimension, as so far only forward is known.
    Now, make a graphical demonstration of how a particle moves through a 3-D space with time and displaying all the particle positions at the same time. You'll get a "snake" through space but how to represent time? (this is possible by "cheating" ) .

    Now try to image 2-dimensional time , or better a 10-dimensional space with complex numbers, with 4-dimensional space, making a graphical representation having 24-dimensions

    The funny part is that you can calculate on it.

    And the formula for a 4-dimensional sphare is 16*pi*r^4/9 and it's volume is 64*pi*r^3/9 and I can prove this
    Sadly this won't help displaying a 4-D sphare in 3-D, like the drawing of a cube.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  29. #29
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    The concept of space-time is valid but I think that it is simply changing the definition of dimension. In this context, a dimension is the measurement of the axes of space.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...sion&x=56&y=15

    So while time and space do go hand in hand, I think the association between time and the other three dimensions does not bear enough of a connection for time itself to be called a dimension.
    I see what your getting at, but time is used to measure things (eg, graphs) like the other dimensions.

    Now, make a graphical demonstration of how a particle moves through a 3-D space with time and displaying all the particle positions at the same time. You'll get a "snake" through space but how to represent time? (this is possible by "cheating" ) .
    Couldn't you just label each particle with a time? I have a feeling this is cheating.
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 09-11-2006 at 22:28.

  30. #30
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4-D shapes

    Wouldn't a 4-D shape shift with time?

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