Not Getting The Vanilla Marian Reforms!

[goosejn]

I am playing as makedonia, it is 262BC and i have a couple of huge cities in Italy, not including Rome. Shouldn't I have triggered them by having the palaces?

[Xurr]

Check the FAQ. Marian reforms aren't triggered by city size in EB.

[Maximus Aurelius]

Check the FAQ. Marian reforms aren't triggered by city size in EB.

I'm pretty sure that he isn't talking about the Roman Marian reforms, but the Change of time (or whatever it is called). I'm not sure but I think that you have to get past a certain year to allow the Vanilla reforms to happen.

[goosejn]

Yes, I am Definitely not talking about the EB marian reforms, but the Vanilla Ones that allow for all of the new Units. Does anyone know what that year is?

[Korlon]

Vanilla Marian Reforms are triggered by having a huge city in Italy. They took out the time requirement in patch 1.5.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The Vanilla Marian Reform will hit when one of these cities becomes huge: Arpi, Capua, Arretium, Ariminum. There may not be a message and it may be delayed a few turns but that is the only requirement.

[Torvus]

The Vanilla Marian Reform will hit when one of these cities becomes huge: Arpi, Capua, Arretium, Ariminum. There may not be a message and it may be delayed a few turns but that is the only requirement.
any idea of a timeframe when the AI normally does this? cuz in my current Mak campaign, Arretium has enough people to upgrade to a huge city, but the Romani haven't done it yet.

[SaberHRE]

probably lack the money to upgrade. But be patient, more "civilized" nations tend to expand really quickly in terms of infrastructure. It took the Carthaginians 50 years to build everything in Kart-Hadast in my recent game.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

They usually get it between 250 and 220...

[Ibrahim]

or 100BC after what I did to them...:beam:

[goosejn]

I have huge cities in Italy already from Taras to as far north as Arretium. It is 258 bc. I have had huge cities for a couple of years now? Remember, i am playing as Makedonia and i am referring to the Vanilla Reforms for new units. I thought with patch 1.5, the vanilla reforms set off as soon as a huge city besides Rome was in place in Italy.

[Lusted]

The vanilla reforms will not trigger for any faction apart from the Romans in vanilla 1.5, it must be a Roman city in Italy apart from Rome that becomes a huge city.

[goosejn]

but i have other cities that are huge besides rome

[Lusted]

But are you playing as the Romans?

[goosejn]

I'm playing as Makedonia. So is it safe to assume i will not get the reforms until 240bc and then i can recruit hysteroi pezhetairoi

[goosejn]

If anyone can answer this question: When should i experience the vanilla marian reforms and get the new units?

It is 238 BC, i am playing as Makedonia, and there are a number of huge cities in Italy besides Rome. is it something that randomly occurs after a certain year, or will it happen in a certain year that i have not gotten to yet?

[blacksnail]

The Vanilla Marian reforms happen when they happen. We can't really control when but you can expect them to happen between 240 and 220 BC. This is a hardcoded aspect of the game, so it will happen at some point.

[Aromir]

The vanilla reforms will not trigger for any faction apart from the Romans in vanilla 1.5, it must be a Roman city in Italy apart from Rome that becomes a huge city.

Quick question, just to be clear, this means that the huge city in italy has to owned by the roman faction right? So if the Roman faction is destroyed or looses all its cities in italy you wont get the reforms at all?

[Jurdagat]

Quick question, just to be clear, this means that the huge city in italy has to owned by the roman faction right? So if the Roman faction is destroyed or looses all its cities in italy you wont get the reforms at all?

Not really. Remember that the EB Roman faction is not using any of the vanilla Roman faction slots (Brutii, Julii, etc..).

I'm not 100% certain, but I think most factions can trigger the vanilla reform.

[Lusted]

Quick question, just to be clear, this means that the huge city in italy has to owned by the roman faction right? So if the Roman faction is destroyed or looses all its cities in italy you wont get the reforms at all?

Correct. In the vanilla game, it must be a Roman faction in Italy(but not Rome) that builds an Imperial Palace in order to trigger the reform.

[blacksnail]

I believe the Marian reform will trigger for whatever region has the "italy" hidden resource. I don't remember if we moved this resource into regions beyond the Italian peninsula, but you can check by doing a search for (I believe) descr_regions.txt in your EB sub-directory. First, select that file and hit CTRL-C (to copy the file) and CTRL-V (to paste the copy into your directory). Next, open the copy and search for italy. The regions where it is present are the regions that need the 5th level governor's building, aka Huge city size. Finally, close the file and delete your "copy of descr_regions.txt" file.

[Horst Nordfink]

I am using MAAs city mod, meaning that only Rome can become a Huge city in Italia. Does that mean that the Vanilla Marian Reforms will never happen? Or does it happen once you reach a certain date regardless of the city size?

[blacksnail]

In that instance, if the "italy" tag is only in the non-Rome Italian cities, then yes, you will never get the Vanilla Marian reforms.

[Horst Nordfink]

I thought so. I have just changed Capua to "huge" in the descr_regions wotsit, so no problem.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I am using MAAs city mod, meaning that only Rome can become a Huge city in Italia. Does that mean that the Vanilla Marian Reforms will never happen? Or does it happen once you reach a certain date regardless of the city size?
I took the reforms into account in my minimod and added the "italy" hidden resourse to the towns that can get huge so that they will trigger it. I didn't take the fact that only Rome can trigger it into account, though...

[goosejn]

so if i am playing as Makedonia and i am playing a non-modded version of EB 1.0, i should check the files to make sure if italian regions have the "italy" hidden resource for non-roman factions. if they do, then i should experience the reform sometime between 250-220bc. It is now 238bc. I remeber getting them as Makedonia once before, but that was not on version 1.0. has anything changed in this version regarding this file?

[goosejn]

i checked the resource_txt folder and a number of cities in Italy had the "Italy" resource. Is there something else i should look for because some of the replies talk about the difference if you are playing as the romans and get a huge city vs other factions. Or, am i all set, and reforms will happen randomly because the resource is there and it is after 250BC??

[blacksnail]

Faction shouldn't matter - just the city with the "italy" tag becoming huge. The city may have the population for it but maybe they haven't yet built the Vanilla "imperal palace" building which is what actually triggers it. Sit tight, if nothing happens by 230 BC then you should start to worry.

[goosejn]

I definitely have the imperial palace in multiple cities, not including Rome

[Dhampir]

Theoretically, if I capture Capua and get it up to huge and then give it to the Romans, will that then trigger the reforms?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Theoretically, if I capture Capua and get it up to huge and then give it to the Romans, will that then trigger the reforms?
Theoretically...

[Dhampir]

Cool. The Romans simply REFUSE to upgrade Capua's infrastructure. It's big enough, population wise.

[Tellos Athenaios]

But the AI might feel it does not need to upgrade just yet. It tends to happen more often when the city gets unhappy about it, though. At least that's from what I remember the AI doing when I succesfully sparked a revolt or two in their squalid overpopulated cities... :thinking:

[goosejn]

can some units be modded to not be affected by the Vanilla Marian refoms? As i said, i am playing as the maks, have huge cities with imperial palaces in italy and no reforms. for example, is it possible to make the hysteroi pezhetairoi availability contingent upon a certain year being reached?

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm confused entirely by the question. Doesn't the vanilla reform do precisely nothing in EB?

[bovi]

The vanilla marian reform makes some new units available for some factions, but not the Romani.

[QuintusSertorius]

The vanilla marian reform makes some new units available for some factions, but not the Romani.

I thought they were all triggered by scripted events?

[bovi]

And you stand corrected :beam:.

[blacksnail]

For factions which have significant shifts during reforms, yes - but for some other factions it was just a unit or two and the file that controls the buildings was packed too tightly to add a whole reform structure. All those we associated with the Vanilla Marian reform trigger.

[Tellos Athenaios]

for example, is it possible to make the hysteroi pezhetairoi availability contingent upon a certain year being reached?

Well no, not really (the event counters/monitors can't be used directly in the recruitment governing file (edb)). However you can do something else:

make a backup of your current EDB;
find the units you want to 'un-marian', and remove this condition.

You will have two files: one is still the regular EB EDB; the other is your modified file. You can then swap between reform-units enabled and disabled by default modes, whenever you want to; by simply using either one of the files for your edb.

[goosejn]

Tellos,

in the EDB file, is there a certain word i should be looking for that would signal that it would be triggered by th Vanilla Marian Reforms?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yep. I don't know what exactly it is called, but it should be something related to 'marius' and/or 'reform'.

You can try to figure out what this 'something' is by going to the 'reform' units (Hysteroi Pezhetairoi for instance) and comparing their conditions with those of other units (such as Pezhetairoi); there should be something in the strings for the Vanilla Reform units that does not have a counterpart in the Pezhetairoi.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

So Rome has to be the owner of one of those cities for the march-of-time to appear? Or anyone? Or anyone but you?

This thread confuses me.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

So Rome has to be the owner of one of those cities for the march-of-time to appear? Or anyone? Or anyone but you?
Please, it's quite not unimportant for my upcoming 1.1 Mak-campaign.~:0 ~:(

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

As was already said, it appears that only the "Roman" culture group can trigger the reforms. So, only the Romani faction can trigger it.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Thank you! Incredibly important knowledge for every Mak player. That should keep people from expanding westward at an early stage of the game.:sad: Poor Maks in my Carthage campaign won't get them either...