View Full Version : U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
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CountArach
09-02-2008, 07:30
This article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) in the NYT does a nice summary of some of Palin's problems that shows that she was not vetted closely:
Among other less attention-grabbing news of the day: it was learned that Ms. Palin now has a private lawyer in a legislative ethics investigation in Alaska into whether she abused her power in dismissing the state’s public safety commissioner; that she was a member for two years in the 1990s of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede; and that Mr. Palin was arrested 22 years ago on a drunken-driving charge.
Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin.
...
“They didn’t seriously consider her until four or five days from the time she was picked, before she was asked, maybe the Thursday or Friday before,” said a Republican close to the campaign. “This was really kind of rushed at the end, because John didn’t get what he wanted. He wanted to do Joe or Ridge.”
Also, there are more than 250 arrests (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02protest.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) at the Republican Convention. Some of the stories in that article disgust me.
CountArach
09-02-2008, 12:06
You know those former Clinton supporters Palin was supposed to bring over?
Yeah... it ain't happening... (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109957/Obama-Gains-Among-Former-Clinton-Supporters.aspx)
The Democratic convention appears to have helped solidify support for Barack Obama among former Hillary Clinton supporters, with the percent saying they will vote for Obama in November moving from 70% pre-convention to 81% after the convention, and the percent certain to vote for Obama jumping from 47% to 65%.
...
In addition to the Democratic convention, the time period between the two surveys being compared here also encompassed McCain's surprise announcement of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate on Friday, and the intensifying news coverage of the approach of Hurricane Gustav throughout the rest of the weekend. Nevertheless, the comparisons give us a basic indication of the overall impact of the convention.
https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/CountArach/0901PostConv1_ooolll.gif
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-02-2008, 12:39
Also, there are more than 250 arrests (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02protest.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) at the Republican Convention. Some of the stories in that article disgust me.
Near the start of the march, two women and a young man secured themselves with chains to a car that obstructed traffic.
with some smashing windows and battling with the police
At one point, a group of about 200 protesters — many wearing black bandannas across their faces and some wearing black balaclavas — roamed through downtown, shouting and chanting and throwing street signs and concrete planters in the road.
Others wrested him away, then appeared to knock the officer to the ground.
Good thing that they were arrested. :2thumbsup:
CountArach
09-02-2008, 12:45
Good thing that they were arrested. :2thumbsup:
several demonstrators also said police officers fired projectiles at them.
In one confrontation downtown, as several dozen demonstrators milled around and danced in the streets, police officers wearing helmets, padded vests and shin guards converged on the group.
Just after 5 p.m., Jerah Plucker, 33, a documentary filmmaker from Minneapolis, called a reporter to say that he was among about 300 people surrounded by officers in the park along the banks of the Mississippi facing Harriet Island.
Mr. Plucker, who works for an organization called Freespeak Media, said people had been listening to musicians in the park when officers formed a cordon.
“Over the loudspeaker they are saying, ‘You are being arrested,’ ” he said. “They’re telling us, ‘Sit down, put your hands on your head.’ ”
Good thing there is still freedom of speech :2thumbsup:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-02-2008, 12:46
Good thing there is still freedom of speech :2thumbsup:
Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Not freedom to smash windows.
CountArach
09-02-2008, 12:52
Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Not freedom to smash windows.
I never defended smashing windows, but dancing? Come on...
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-02-2008, 13:04
I never defended smashing windows, but dancing? Come on...
As the two sides faced off and tensions rose, the police squirted pepper spray into the crowd.
Police didn't actually do anything to the group while they were dancing.
CountArach
09-02-2008, 13:07
In one confrontation downtown, as several dozen demonstrators milled around and danced in the streets, police officers wearing helmets, padded vests and shin guards converged on the group.
Sure sounds like it to me...
KukriKhan
09-02-2008, 13:32
It shouldn't be too long before we hear the Mayor talking about "outside agitators". Dancing in the streets is quite un-Minnesotan, they being from Norwegian Lutheran stock (j/k), so it must be ferriners.
Besides, with no speeches to cover, and many of the camera crews sent to the Gulf Coast for the storm, the news guys stuck in Minneapolis/St. Paul hafta cover something. There were protests and (some) law-breaking in Denver too, but it got overshadowed by events at the Pepsi & Mile-High venues.
CountArach
09-02-2008, 13:34
Something that I am sure a lot of people can have a bit of fun with... Palin is more interesting than Sex...
https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/CountArach/2821447996_87287f2978_o.png
For those who are interested, the peaks for Sex are Friday and Saturday. Also there is a very slight upturn in sex at the same time as Palin's announcement...
Coincidence? You decide.
As I suspected, Palin was not thoroughly investigated (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print) until after she had been chosen. Sloppy, really.
Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin. [...]
At the least, Republicans close to the campaign said it was increasingly apparent that Ms. Palin had been selected as Mr. McCain’s running mate with more haste than McCain advisers initially described.
Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before Mr. McCain introduced Ms. Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, Mr. McCain was still holding out the hope that he could choose a good friend, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. Mr. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.
But both men favor abortion rights, anathema to the Christian conservatives who make up a crucial base of the Republican Party. As word leaked out that Mr. McCain was seriously considering the men, the campaign was bombarded by outrage from influential conservatives who predicted an explosive floor fight at the convention and vowed rejection of Mr. Ridge or Mr. Lieberman by the delegates. [...]
With time running out — and as Mr. McCain discarded two safer choices, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, as too predictable — he turned to Ms. Palin. He had his first face-to-face interview with her on Thursday and offered her the job moments later. Advisers to Mr. Pawlenty and another of the finalists on Mr. McCain’s list described an intensive vetting process for those candidates that lasted one to two months.
“They didn’t seriously consider her until four or five days from the time she was picked, before she was asked, maybe the Thursday or Friday before,” said a Republican close to the campaign. “This was really kind of rushed at the end, because John didn’t get what he wanted. He wanted to do Joe or Ridge.” [...]
People familiar with the process said Ms. Palin had responded to a standard form with more than 70 questions. Although The Washington Post quoted advisers to Mr. McCain on Sunday as saying Ms. Palin had been subjected to an F.B.I. background check, an F.B.I. official said Monday the bureau did not vet potential candidates and had not known of her selection until it was made public.
KukriKhan
09-02-2008, 14:21
Although The Washington Post quoted advisers to Mr. McCain on Sunday as saying Ms. Palin had been subjected to an F.B.I. background check, an F.B.I. official said Monday the bureau did not vet potential candidates and had not known of her selection until it was made public.
They (advisors) messed that up, obviously. An FBI "Background Investigation" (B.I.) is a formal, expensive, time-consuming (weeks and months) process of getting someone a top-level security clearance; it involves actual interviews with actual people, and physical searches of records - something not likely to have been requested ahead of a candidate announcement.
What they probably did was an FBI Name-Check, used to search for 'wants and warrants', and to confirm that the name and SSN match other Fed records, and whether there exists any FBI dossier on the person (not what's in it; just whether it exists). A B.I. would be appropriately requested after the formal nomination, so the candidate could receive classified briefings near the election date.
-edit-
On the protests yesterday, HERE's (http://www.slate.com/id/2199060/) an on-the-scene report from Slate.com's Chris Beam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Beam) and what he observed.
HoreTore
09-02-2008, 15:22
Dancing in the streets is quite un-Minnesotan, they being from Norwegian Lutheran stock (j/k), so it must be ferriners.
That's no joke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qjhJYVIoQ), my friend...
KukriKhan
09-02-2008, 15:31
That's no joke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qjhJYVIoQ), my friend...
LOL. Brilliant! :thumbsup:
Here's (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/old_grizzled_third_party?utm_source=slate_rss_1) vid of a possible 3rd party spolier for McCain. "I gotcher tax plan.... Pa-Tooey!..." (about 2 minutes long).
Crazed Rabbit
09-02-2008, 16:21
The NYT carries more water for Obama, this time on the topic of how women with children should stay in the kitchen where they belong:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02mother.html?hp=&pagewanted=print
I don't think they mentioned her husband takes care of the children.
One of the three separate stories on the front page of the NYT that mentioned Palin's daughter's pregnancy.
CR
Mailman653
09-02-2008, 16:23
Something that I am sure a lot of people can have a bit of fun with... Palin is more interesting than Sex...
For those who are interested, the peaks for Sex are Friday and Saturday. Also there is a very slight upturn in sex at the same time as Palin's announcement...
Coincidence? You decide.
She's not bad looking for her age.....:eeeek:
CrossLOPER
09-02-2008, 16:36
nonono non o
Here's (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/old_grizzled_third_party?utm_source=slate_rss_1) vid of a possible 3rd party spolier for McCain. "I gotcher tax plan.... Pa-Tooey!..." (about 2 minutes long).
Man, The Onion always delivers. "McCain's old, but is he old enough? I'm voting for a man I can imagine drowning a bag of cats."
Tribesman
09-02-2008, 16:48
The NYT carries more water for Obama, this time on the topic of how women with children should stay in the kitchen where they belong:
Wow they sound like the good old conservative family values you find at Eagle forum :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
One of the three separate stories on the front page of the NYT that mentioned Palin's daughter's pregnancy.
Did they mention that only last week Palins staff denied that the story of the daughter being pregnant was true ?
Or that the wonderful future father and husband describes himself as "a ****** redneck who likes to shoot ****" ?
Now of course the pregnancy story wouldn't be much of an issue at all , if it wasn't for Palins pentecostal evangelism with her opposition to sex before marriage and support for teaching abstinance instead of sexual education .
It's becoming increasingly clear that palin was not vetted.
She was vetted , its just that the vetting was done by Strike for the south after they read his claims of being a vet
Sorry to say, it ain't just they NY Times and HuffPo that are carrying Palin stories today. Bit of a media feeding frenzy going on. Looks like the AIP thing (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html) may have legs:
Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party say that Palin was once so independent, she was once a member of their party, which, since the 1970s, has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United States.
And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."
After refraining from commenting on the charge for a day, the McCain campaign on Tuesday asserted that Palin was never a member of the AIP.
But Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, tells ABC News that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.
"We are a state's rights party," says Clark, a self-employed goldminer. The AIP has "a plank that challenges the legality of the Alaskan statehood vote as illegal and in violation of United Nations charter and international law."
She says it's not accurate to describe the party as secessionist -- they just want a vote, she says, adding that the members of the AIP hold different opinions on what Alaska should be. [...]
Earlier this year, Palin sent a video message to the AIP for its annual convention, where AIP vice chair George Clark told the small crowd that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town."
Sasaki Kojiro
09-02-2008, 17:42
I wish they'd quit focusing on the story about her daughter. There are many better stories. The AIP one is goood.
Also, this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-lawyer-stonewallin_n_123179.html
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ABC News reports:
Is the McCain campaign afraid of an 'October surprise' involving vice-presidential pick Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska?
The Alaska state senator running an investigation of Gov. Palin says the McCain campaign is using stall tactics to prevent him from releasing his final report by Oct. 31, four days before the November election.
The McCain campaign is finished. He's either going to have to drop her and admit that his first presidential decision was flubbed completely or keep her on and watch as the press for the next 9 weeks focuses on scandal after scandal, with the final card coming days before the election. His vetting process apparently involved asking her if she had any dirt that would look bad and taking her word for it.
The McCain campaign is finished. He's either going to have to drop her and admit that his first presidential decision was flubbed completely or keep her on and watch as the press for the next 9 weeks focuses on scandal after scandal, with the final card coming days before the election. His vetting process apparently involved asking her if she had any dirt that would look bad and taking her word for it.Delusional much? :laugh4:
I have to admit, I'm enjoying reading this orgy of attacks though, feckless as they are thus far. :2thumbsup:
Edit: The most meaningful one I've seen so far, is over the bridge to nowhere- but I haven't taken the time to read up on it either. If she was on both sides of that issue, she would've been better off not bringing it up. :yes:
Mailman653
09-02-2008, 18:09
The last new low US politics needs is smear campaigns or political ads of candidates kids and what they do or who they see.
I can already picture a new ad showing various pictures of teen girls with kids, then a picture of Palin with her daughter, and the ad would say "unfit mom.....unfit vice president" Or what if someone digged up dirt on one of Obama's kids, maybe one of them failed 5th grade math......."irresponsible parent.....irresponsible president".
I think Obama said it best, the press needs to keep off the candidates kids.
Turns out the newest VP pick keeps a blog. Good stuff! (http://sarahpalin.typepad.com/)
Turns out the newest VP pick keeps a blog. Good stuff! (http://sarahpalin.typepad.com/)Hold on to your hat, Lemur- but I think that blog might not be genuine. :wink:
At least, of all the anti-Palin sock puppetry out there, this one manages to be a little humurous...
Crazed Rabbit
09-02-2008, 18:46
Now of course the pregnancy story wouldn't be much of an issue at all , if it wasn't for Palins pentecostal evangelism with her opposition to sex before marriage and support for teaching abstinance instead of sexual education .
Um, no:
The fact is, regardless of what you will hear over the next few days, Bristol's pregnancy is not a legitimate political issue. Sarah Palin is a longterm member of a group called Feminists for Life, which is not opposed to birth control. So you probably can't tag her for consigning young people to unwanted pregnancies.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1837862-2,00.html
CR
HoreTore
09-02-2008, 19:04
So.... Palin is against the abstinence-nonsense and in favour of free sex, hippiestyle then, CR?
Sounds like a bloody liberal.... ~;)
Strike For The South
09-02-2008, 20:04
Its just proof that no matter what you teach your kids they are going to have sex. So teaching abstitnice only is like burying your head in the proverbial sand.
I did see something I hated today. James Caravelle was talking about Palins time as mayor of Wasilla and said that it most certainly didn't qualify her to be VP (a fair accusation) His counter point a republican woman launched into a tirade that claimed he was a sexist and she was offended. IT was maybe the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
I enjoyed Dave Barry's essay about the Dem convention very much, so I'm thrilled to see he's up to the same stuff with the Repubs (http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/dave-barry/story/666920.html).
And now the eyeballs of the nation turn to this quintessentially middle American or possibly southern Canadian city, where in the next few days, weather permitting, the Republicans will answer the Democratic party's call for change by sounding, loud and clear, their own bold campaign theme for 2008: ``What, YOU Never Made a Mistake?''
Don Corleone
09-02-2008, 21:12
The last new low US politics needs is smear campaigns or political ads of candidates kids and what they do or who they see.
I can already picture a new ad showing various pictures of teen girls with kids, then a picture of Palin with her daughter, and the ad would say "unfit mom.....unfit vice president" Or what if someone digged up dirt on one of Obama's kids, maybe one of them failed 5th grade math......."irresponsible parent.....irresponsible president".
I think Obama said it best, the press needs to keep off the candidates kids.
And yet his beholden media is launching one attack after another.
I actually heard Bob Oakes, an anchor for NPR say today that Sarah Palin was of questionable character because of all of this. Why, you would ask? Because she knew ahead of time the media, such as himself, were going to trash her daughter, and what parent would subject their children to that?
That's a new one by me. You knew I was going to be a no-talent hack and a vicious bastard, so you should have protected your children from newsmen like me... :shame:
I'm not going to say I'm not going to listen to NPR ever again. But until the election is over, and they're off of their Obama-mania, I'm sticking to foreign newspapers only.
Sad. I wasn't surprised by the likes of Chris Matthews and Ken Olberman, posing as real journalists, but NPR? Nothing's left?
Sorry Adrian, your co-workers have abandoned their posts over here. Perhaps you could remind them that they're supposed to report on the news, not dictate it.
Don Corleone
09-02-2008, 21:15
You know what's really funny? In the Lefty-elite circles, had Bristol Palin had the *cough* "good sense and taste" *cough* to have an abortion, even tomorrow, they'd applaud her.
I don't think they're so much outraged at Sarah Palin the VP nominee, as Sarah Palin... she and her family practice what they preach when it comes to abortion.
I was thinking about Obama before Friday. Not a chance now. He's as dirty as the rest, and only half as smart.
i have some sympathy for the notion that if the young daughter had opted for an abortion it would have sunk mummies career.
poor girl has enough to deal with.
I don't think they're so much outraged at Sarah Palin the VP nominee, as Sarah Palin... she and her family practice what they preach when it comes to abortion.
While I agree that dragging the kids into the debate is uncalled-for, unnecessary, and unethical, I don't agree that the current media feeding frenzy is all about hatred for non-hypocritical Christians or a final, full flowering of the secret Obama pheromones that make newsmen turn into love-crazed zombies.
Rather, this is about McCain, and the fact that he hired Palin without any proper vetting, having met her once, trusting entirely in his instincts and luck. If Palin turns out to be the Harriet Myers of 2008, it's going to confirm what I have feared for months — Johnny Mac is losing it. I guess I knew something was horribly wrong when he hired the same guy who smeared him in SC (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/mccain-hires-go.html).
Why is the media going nutso? Because they smell blood in the water. Trust me, if Obama had hired Palin to be V.P. without a proper background check, you'd see the same sharks circling in the water. Oh, there'd be some good press about him taking on a Republican, but that would last about five minutes, and then the frenzy would begin.
Rather, this is about McCain, and the fact that he hired Palin without any proper vettingI'm so very tired of this talking point- as if "no vetting" would be enough to disqualify someone alone. No vetting would mean that there would be dirty laundry the campaign didn't know about right? All of the tawdry stuff they're trying to trash her and her family on were well known by the campaign ahead of time. Sure, you can dredge up supposedly anonymous campaign aides or whatever- but lets apply just a little common sense shall we? Does anyone honestly think Palin would have tried to hide her daughter's pregnancy from the McCain campaign, only to confirm it herself a few days later? Does anyone really think that Palin was planning to hide her daughter from the public during her entire pregnancy? Or maybe, just maybe McCain already knew about it and decided that it wouldn't be a serious detriment? People need to apply some common sense..... :dizzy2:
I'm not sure what exactly is prompting the myopic focus on Palin, but there are other stories out there that we aren't hearing much about...... Like the fact that Biden's son and brother are both under investigation (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082302200.html?nav=hcmodule) for fraud in regards to money they got from companies that lobbied the senator. Or Biden's ties (http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/rezko/1124666,CST-NWS-rezko25.article) to Obama's pal Rezko.
But no, the real story is a pregnant 17yr old and Palin's husband's 20yr old DUI. She wasn't vetted!!! :smash:
Don Corleone
09-02-2008, 22:01
Think, Xiahou, THINK! This is all about anger at McCain for picking a woman. Anything they can do to trash his choice can and will be done. I feel really bad for Sarah Palin and her family, but somebody had to carry that cross. The only VP candidate who would not have been destroyed by the mainstream media would have been another old white guy. Any minority, any woman or any other choice that might possibly have shown McCain to be outside the Bush3 mold the media are portraying him to be was going to generate this sort of a reaction.
As long as we're talking about stories that aren't.... Obama's brother is living in a hut in Kenya, as you corretly pointed out, Biden's son's a bagman, and the National Enquirer had to break the story on John Edwards just because Obama might, MIGHT! want him for a VP canddiate. Meanwhile, McCain adopts a Bangladeshi girl and all of a sudden, NBC news declares he has jungle fever.
Like I said, I'm starting to agree with the Democratic bumper stickers ("01/20/09") for different reasons, mainly because our media might actually stop being the largest collective pack of shills ever assembled and will might actually start acting like journalists again.
But hey, at least they get their talking points down. And you when you see Brian Williams and Katie Couric questioning the choice of Sarah Palin, you can barely see Howard Dean's lips moving.
Tribesman
09-02-2008, 22:07
The fact is, regardless of what you will hear over the next few days, Bristol's pregnancy is not a legitimate political issue. Sarah Palin is a longterm member of a group called Feminists for Life, which is not opposed to birth control. So you probably can't tag her for consigning young people to unwanted pregnancies.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Actually Rabbit the feminsts for life have no view on contraception apart from the non preventative kind like the morning after pill , they do however oppose the death penalty which should go down well with the republicans:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
And you will note however that I mentioned her church and its views not one of the many political/social groups she belongs/belonged to and the teachings of the AoG are quite clear in that respect aren't they , you should not play hide the sausage with the local hockey players outside of marriage.:yes:
I guess I knew something was horribly wrong when he hired the same guy who smeared him in SC.
They were not the same people who claimed that McCain had fathered a bastard with dark skin were they:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
You know what's really funny? In the Lefty-elite circles, had Bristol Palin had the *cough* "good sense and taste" *cough* to have an abortion, even tomorrow, they'd applaud her.
Yes Don :dizzy2: Has Dave hacked your account ?
Don Corleone
09-02-2008, 22:22
Yes Don :dizzy2: Has Dave hacked your account ?
I'm serious about that. I find it fascinating that Bristol Palin's pregnancy comes through to the Left as a liability for Sarah Palin. I truly do. I don't think Lefties know the Right anywhere near as well as we know them.
Had Bristol had an abortion, it would have been heralded as a 17-year old exercising her rights as a woman. Her mother, on the other hand, would have been the draconian throwback that would have wanted to hand her a coat-hanger. I'm telling you, that's how the Keith Olbermans/Jon Stewarts of the world would have spun it.
The 'thinking Left', and I do acknowledge they exist, cannot understand why Bristol's pregnancy hasn't caused a calamity in the ranks. This is mainly because to the Thinking Left, the Right is all about being old-school, and out of touch. It's not that Conservatives don't understand that teenage sex happens, its that we don't think it should be encouraged. And when it does happen, we believe in making the best of a bad situation. Sarah Palin, and her daughter for that matter, have done just that, so why on Earth would we want to dump them?
And meanwhile, the party that claims a woman's right to privacy is their fundamental goal has shown it's true colors, by outing a 17 year old girl. What about her right to privacy?
Dean and Obama should be ashamed of themselves for this one. I think having an ASS for a symbol is pretty appropriate.
The 'thinking Left', and I do acknowledge they exist, cannot understand why Bristol's pregnancy hasn't caused a calamity in the ranks.
Camille Paglia sounded worried- if you count her
“We may be seeing the first woman president. As a Democrat, I am reeling… That was the best political speech I have ever seen delivered by an American woman politician. Palin is as tough as nails… Good Lord, we had barely 12 hours of Democrat optimism… It was a stunningly timed piece of PR by the Republicans.”
Tribesman
09-02-2008, 22:35
I'm serious about that.
Really ? can you find an example of anyone applauding when a person has an abortion ?
But anyway back to feminists for life , Palin belongs to this group , she obviously belongs to the group because she shares its values and mission .
It is their view that the dealth penalty is bad and shouldn't be allowed ...Palin supports the death penalty ????
Why does she belong to the group ?
Do they serve good coffee or something ?
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-02-2008, 22:53
But anyway back to feminists for life , Palin belongs to this group , she obviously belongs to the group because she shares its values and mission .
It is their view that the dealth penalty is bad and shouldn't be allowed ...Palin supports the death penalty ????
Maybe because the abortion part of pro-life is the "main" stance of that group?
Devastatin Dave
09-02-2008, 23:02
The best part about this whole Palin's daughter pile-on it shows the true colors of these so called open minded liberals and their true feeling towards woman's rights within the workplace and reproductive rights. I'm just sitting back and watching the show. The media is so transparently biased this election cycle it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetically sad. Even Bill Mahr commented on how Olby and Chrissy Matthews acted like they wanted to have sex with Obama, I guess they'll get :daisy: after Lemur...
Darling Dave, are you jealous that I might be seeing other men? Trust me, you're the only catamite for me.
Devastatin Dave
09-02-2008, 23:19
Darling Dave, are you jealous that I might be seeing other men? Trust me, you're the only catamite for me.
Well, that makes me feel better. You've been a little too intentative towards this unqualified brutha, I know the saying "once you go black you never go back", just remember who really loves you, my little sugar nipple...:yes:
Tribesman
09-02-2008, 23:38
The best part about this whole Palin's daughter pile-on it shows the true colors of these so called open minded liberals
No Dave , its taking the piss out of the "conservatives" who link to places like eagle forum then get defensive when the candidate they have so recently become enamoured of fails on so many of their cherished values .
The pregnant teen is a non-issue, in my opinion. She's a kid, she's got her own problems, and she is not running for VP. I guess sins of the father can now be sins of the mother.
There are plenty of more relevant things to discuss:
Palin's involvement in Ted Stevens' 527
All the federal earmarks she lobbied for as mayor of a tiny town
Note how she was for the "bridge to nowhere" before she was against it
Trooper-gate
Her involvement in a party that wants Alaska to secede from the union.
Talk about the fact that McCain's people are just now setting up shop in Alaska to check out her bona fides
Seriously, why bring the kid into it at all?
Her involvement in a party that wants Alaska to secede from the union.
Questions had swirled about Sarah Palin's affiliation with the Independence Party and with former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan. Voter registration records and past news reports, however, show Palin never registered as a member of the Independence Party, and backed Steve Forbes' presidential campaign in 2000, not Buchanan.
Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, said Todd Palin twice registered under the Alaskan Independence Party — in 1995 and 2000. Some members of the party have advocated secession from the United States, though that is not a goal listed in the party's platform.link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics)
Still wrong- twice. :beam:
She was never a member and the AIP doesn't have succession in it's platform.
She wasn't vetted!!! :soapbox:
Oh, I'm so terribly sorry Xiahou. How foolish of me. It's a party that wants to hold a referendum on whether or not the State should secede. Please feel free to explain why that would be a plank in your party unless you want to secede.
And with a motto that goes "Alaska first -- Alaska always," how could one gain the wrong impression?
Please feel free to explain why they need to campaign so hard and so long for a vote that would allow a state to secede from the Union if that's not their intent.
Oh, I'm so terribly sorry Xiahou. How foolish of me. It's a party that wants to hold a referendum on whether or not the State should secede. Please feel free to explain why that would be a plank in your party unless you want to secede.
And with a motto that goes "Alaska first -- Alaska always," how could one gain the wrong impression?
Please feel free to explain why they need to campaign so hard and so long for a vote that would allow a state to secede from the Union if that's not their intent.Here's (http://www.akip.org/platform.html) their platform. Find "hold a referendum on whether or not the State should secede" for me. I'll wait. :wink:
You realize its irrelevant anyhow if she was never a member, right?
Wow, I had to click on a whole different tab (http://www.akip.org/goals.html) in their website. Now tell me how none of this matters anyway, which is why you were bringing it up.
Goals
The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.
Wow, I had to click on a whole different tab (http://www.akip.org/goals.html) in their website. But now that you're completely proved wrong, you may retreat to your already-established fallback position where none of this matters, which is why you had to call it out in the first place.Ok, so it's not in their platform, but their goal is to have a vote- which, thanks to that video that you subjected me to, I now know they think was originally held in a corrupt manner. One of the four possible outcomes of that vote would be independence. Clearly they're secessionist radicals. :yes:
It's irrelevant, because it she wasn't a member so it's irrelevant to Palin and the thread. If you want to carry on debating whether their goal, if attained could theoretically lead to independence, even if their platform has no means to attain it, means AIP is "a party that wants Alaska to secede from the union" we can continue, but maybe it should get its own thread.
If it's all so irrelevant, why do you keep harping on it, lover? It was one bullet point out of something like six I listed. If you want to spin it off as a new thread, be my guest.
No, let's be honest, you were utterly convinced you'd caught me making a factual error, and you wanted to hammer on it. Now that you've been shown to be wrong, it's time to change the subject. Fine with me.
And I never heard that explanation of why you would agitate for a vote on secession unless you want to secede. And why, exactly, are you so sympathetic to/defensive of a fringe party that wants to leave the Union?
If it's all so irrelevant, why do you keep harping on it, lover? It was one bullet point out of something like eight I listed. If you want to spin it off as a new thread, be my guest.She wasn't a member- that defeats the "bullet". If you want to argue that you weren't wrong on both counts because you think they are secessionist, you can, but it has no impact on the "bullet" being demonstrably wrong..... I thought that was obvious. :shrug:
edit: I also addressed your last "bullet". For your benefit, I'll do so again.
She wasn't vetted!!!! :soapbox:
edit2:
No, let's be honest, you were utterly convinced you'd caught me making a factual error, and you wanted to hammer on it. Now that you've been shown to be wrong, it's time to change the subject. Fine with me.So now, utterly convinced you've caught me making a factual error, want to hammer me on it. :laugh4:
Since you seem convinced you're the hammer to my nail, we can continue the exercise....
You want to make a lot of their goal, one possible outcome of which would be Alaska as an independent nation. It's worth noting, however that while it's a possible outcome if they got the vote their goal asks for, nowhere do they call for succession. Not in their platform, no in their issues.
More from their website:
The AIP believes full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska is necessary. Surely, some of their members would like Alaska to be a separate nation, but it is an exaggeration to claim that the sole purpose of the party today is succession (as you suggested).
Palin's representatives say she was not a member, the AIP says she was. I'm sure Palin will actually speak to the press one of these days.
Meanwhile, a little repor (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200809u/palin-eagleton)t from the Republican Convention:
Here in St. Paul, talk of Palin has dominated the Republican convention—even more so than cable news—and by Monday night discussion among Republican operatives and reporters had turned to whether Palin would survive or become the first running mate since Thomas Eagleton in 1972 to leave a major-party ticket. On Monday, the InTrade futures market opened trading on whether Palin would withdraw before the election.
With reporters and opposition researchers crawling through Alaska, and with the McCain campaign having dispatched its own team of lawyers to re-vet Palin, Republicans are wondering what shoe might drop next. If further revelations prove damaging enough, McCain could decide to replace Palin or she could choose to withdraw. While such an event seems unlikely given her popularity in some quarters of the party—Jacob Heilbrunn has suggested that social conservatives would view her ouster as “political infidelity”—her rocky reception makes the “Eagleton scenario,” and how it might unfold, a subject of more than academic interest.
-edit-
Oh, yeah, I'm sure they want to have a vote on the status of their statehood 'cause, um, they just want to affirm how much they love the United States. That's the only logical explanation. That's why both the Republicans and the Democrats also want to have votes about whether or not the Union should stay together. It's like having a re-marriage, you know.
Sheesh. Let me know if you pull anything twisting yourself into these contorted positions, friend.
Palin's representatives say she was not a member, the AIP says she was. I'm sure Palin will actually speak to the press one of these days.Ugh! Did you read the news story I linked? I even excerpted sections for you....
Voter registration records and past news reports, however, show Palin never registered as a member of the Independence PartyIt's tough to be much plainer than that.
Does one have to be registered to have views?
"I share your party's vision of upholding the constitution of our great state" and told members to "keep up the good work".
Mrs Palin laughed when her interviewer described cancer sufferer Senator Green as a "cancer".
I think the above is just.....unacceptable.
Don Corleone
09-03-2008, 02:02
Hey, Obama's future secretary of State P. Diddy Combs was on his blog this morning claiming Palin can't be VP because she doesn't have enough crackheads up in Alaska. He also claimed there were no blacks in Alaska, something I'm certain the 27,000 black people in Alaska (4.6% of the 670,000 people that live there) were surprised to hear.
He's got Diddy on there saying Palin's not black and crack enough.
He's got his boys Matthews, Williams and Couric going after her kid, who's pregnant.
He's got Ludacrious threatening to put McCain in a wheelchair.
He's got Jeremiah Wright saying the USA deserved 9/11 and could use another one.
He's got Joe "I'm the smartest man in my class and I've got the plagaraized papers to prove it" Biden offering him ethics advice.
He's got billions of dollars raised in secrecy so he's forgoing public financning, something he swore he'd never do, just so he can hide the sources.
And he's got every democratic operative that nobody's heard of yet going in front of the media talking about race riots if he doesn't win.
And time and time again, he claims it wasn't him, he just had the wrong people around him. You know what? I think Jay Severin was right (now there's a statement I never thought I'd make). I think Obama IS the Manchurian candidate, and I think all that money he's hiding is coming from Iran and Saudi Arabia.
And you know what? Every time from here on out, when the election comes up, I'm going to talk about what a shame about the misogyny of the Democratic party. Telling women to "forget you" with picking Biden was bad enough, but going after a 17 year old, and humiliating her in front of the whole country, because her mother didn't shut her mouth and stay in her place?
It's a shame. I really had thought Obama was different. He's not. He's taking money from China and Iran, and if he gets elected, we're doomed.
Marshal Murat
09-03-2008, 02:05
As the riots (and anarchists) lead protests against the Republican convention, two questions popped into my head.
1.What do they hope to accomplish, changing the Republican's views? Do they seriously believe that any protest will shift Republican views?
2. Why are they protesting at the Republican convention? Shouldn't they have run against the Democrat convention because they hold the majority in Congress? Wouldn't this force them to action against the war far more quickly than plaguing the Republicans?
CrossLOPER
09-03-2008, 02:07
McCain is the cleanest candidate to run ever. That's all I've got to say.
Crazed Rabbit
09-03-2008, 02:08
And you will note however that I mentioned her church and its views not one of the many political/social groups she belongs/belonged to and the teachings of the AoG are quite clear in that respect aren't they , you should not play hide the sausage with the local hockey players outside of marriage.
Wow, I guess people might have exactly the same views as groups they are members of. I suppose that's a big revelation for tribesy, which is why he keeps bringing it up.
CR
Support from her home town (write your own caption);
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/valley-511.jpg
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 02:14
Sarah Palin will come out stronger for this coverage. I hope that they keep it up and it catches up to them because people are being solidified in their resentments on both sides. The longer coverage goes the more people learn and the more they dislike the media for their bizarre coverage of the non-issue.
I've heard some people claim that Bristol "should have had an abortion"and that she was stupid not to. I want these sentiments to get out there and hit the main stream and I'd like people to react to them. This is just what the GOP needs - a polarizing crusade against the media.
Devastatin Dave
09-03-2008, 02:15
2. Why are they protesting at the Republican convention? Shouldn't they have run against the Democrat convention because they hold the majority in Congress?
No because all the Dems would have been out there with them and there wouldn't be a convention!!!
Don Corleone
09-03-2008, 02:18
Tuff, you've got a good point. I haven't been very happy about voting for McCain, but frankly, if nothing else, this crap with Palin has shown me that keeping the Manchurian candidate out of the office is a cause I need to get behind.
Crazed Rabbit
09-03-2008, 02:20
Lemur-
Yup, Mr. Barry always gets answers:
http://blogs.herald.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/02/mccain.jpg
CR
Seamus Fermanagh
09-03-2008, 02:21
Does anyone on this forum really believe that ANY veep nominee by either party was somehow going to be accepted and/or lauded by the usual opposition? They make their money trashing the other team -- its business as usual.
That's why we get the politicos we do -- and deserve.
Don Corleone
09-03-2008, 02:24
Trashing is one thing, Seamus. But releasing Sarah Palin's home address? Her social security number? That's what the Democrats have been up to, (http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/sep/02/breaking-democrats-release-sarah-palins-soc/) keeping themselves busy during the GOP convention.
Marshal Murat
09-03-2008, 02:29
Besides, Biden hasn't received half the coverage. Only 'taking the train home every night to stay with his family'.
Devastatin Dave
09-03-2008, 02:29
Trashing is one thing, Seamus. But releasing Sarah Palin's home address? Her social security number? That's what the Democrats have been up to, (http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/sep/02/breaking-democrats-release-sarah-palins-soc/) keeping themselves busy during the GOP convention.
So true...
I would love to see how many reporters the main stream media has sent out to investigate the pregnancy of Mrs Palin's daughter as compared to the number of reporters on the William Ayers and Tony Rezco connections with the Messiah.:laugh4:
I seriously doubt any news site called "RedState" :laugh4:
Woohoo, man, got a good laugh from that site. "OMG OBAMA'S COMMUNIST MENTOR LOL!!!!1" "OMG HE'S A MUSLIM TERRORIST AND STUFF AND LOL!!!!1 I GOT U NOW OSAMA/OBAMA!!!!1"
Meanwhile, I was over at FactCheck.org and came across something interesting in regards to Obama's claim that pro-life groups were lying about his record....
It turns out, Obama was the one not being truthful:
He told Brody that the federal bill "was not the bill that was presented at the state level." That's technically true; though the "neutrality clause" was identical in the federal and state bills, there were other minor wording differences elsewhere. But the Obama campaign statement says that "Illinois And Federal Born Alive Infant Protection Acts Did Not Include Exactly The Same Language." That's true for the earlier versions that Obama voted against. In the case of SB 1082, as it was amended just before being killed, it’s false.
Read it all here (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html).
HAHAH!
It tells me that homosexual tendencies should be considered a disease; a congenital defect. Once this has been established, then the logical next step would be to consider treatment options, just as we can now correct other congenital abnormalities.
Insurance carriers should be forced to provide coverage for "Orientation Correction" procedures in all health insurance policies.
Get out the hankerchiefs! Here comes the gay disease!
I cite only one, in which all blacks are said to be created to go to hell, and that Allah sends all black people to hell.
Oh, hefty claim there. Would any fellow Muslim like to provide Mishkat Al-Massabih by Al Tabrizi Volume 1, Dar El Arkham Bin El Arkham page 40 Hadith 119?
Also, seeing as this is in the Hadith, this is not the Quran as the writer claimed, so he was wrong to begin with.
Don Corleone
09-03-2008, 02:53
HAHAH!
Get out the hankerchiefs! Here comes the gay disease!
Oh, hefty claim there. Would any fellow Muslim like to provide Mishkat Al-Massabih by Al Tabrizi Volume 1, Dar El Arkham Bin El Arkham page 40 Hadith 119?
Also, seeing as this is in the Hadith, this is not the Quran as the writer claimed, so he was wrong to begin with.
Dude, if you want to go quote what visitors have posted in the comments section, you're going to lose. People log into the Daily Kos on a daily basis, saying the USA should be overthrown and all sorts of other wonderful things. That doesn't mean a story that gets posted on the Daily Kos is wrong.
RedState.Org has all sorts of folks that come visit. For all I know, your Lefty buddies did their best redneck impersonations, and those were written by your fellow Lefties. I haven't a clue.
But hey, if you want to pretend that it's okay for Democrats to release home adddresses and social security numbers of candidates, just because you disagree with the editorial stance of the place that reported it, hey, that's your right. You and your kind want to kick a pregnant teenager to make political hay, why should I be surprised by what you do?
Yes, I agree that it's ok to release personal information, I'm also OK with kicking pregnant teenagers. Are you the ignorant Republican, or misinformed?
Yes, I agree that it's ok to release personal information, I'm also OK with kicking pregnant teenagers. Are you the ignorant Republican, or misinformed?
Releasing Social Security Numbers is actually against the law, so be very careful on saying its okay to release personal information, but then I see from the rest of the sentence that you might just be using saracism in your response.
For instance how would you like your address and personal identification numbers spread out on the web for anyone to see and use if they were inclined to do so?
A little common sense should be applied when saying personal information should be released. For instance I am fine with having everyone know that I am married, and have two children, and that I live in Tongonaxie, Kansas, but as for my street address and Social Security Number I would be after who ever released that information for the fact that they actually violated the law.
Hey, SwedishFish, Don is a longstanding and well-respected member of the Backroom scrum. I know he's been a little over-the-top with some posts lately, but don't let that fool you. In general he's a thoughtful, balanced guy.
And releasing personal info such as addresses and SS#s is wrong, wrong, wrong. Whoever did it should be fired immediately, and banned from working on a campaign ever again. Serves no good purpose for anyone; endangers Palin and her family, makes the side that did it look like incompetent thugs. Bad bit of business.
Releasing Social Security Numbers is actually against the law, so be very careful on saying its okay to release personal information, but then I see from the rest of the sentence that you might just be using saracism in your response.
Where did I EVER say I support releasing information? I am against it. I AM AGAINST IT. Man....
Incongruous
09-03-2008, 03:14
So.... Palin is against the abstinence-nonsense and in favour of free sex, hippiestyle then, CR?
Sounds like a bloody liberal.... ~;)
Yep that's what he said.
Didn't mean to sound as though I was accusing you of supporting it; I was just saying that it's a bad bit of business.
Meanwhile, it's good to see that some people staffing the campaigns are doing their level best to make sure this is an issue-free election: "This election is not about issues. This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates," — Rick Davis (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_manager_this_election_i.html), McCain Campaign Manager.
Where did I EVER say I support releasing information? I am against it. I AM AGAINST IT. Man....
you did say it in the above post, now I also realized it might be in jest - ie sarcism, but the point had to be made, its just plain wrong to reliease personal information without the consent of the individual.
Sometime text does not protray your intent as well as you might have wanted it to.
Or are you trying to play as a politican dening something you stated just minutes after you stated it?
:oops::laugh4::laugh4:
Anybody got a good link for watching the Repub Convention? I'd like it to be hi-def, commercial-free and sans talking heads, if at all possible. There was a stream from the DNC for the last shindig, I was hoping there's something equivalent from the RNC ...
-edit-
And can someone tell me why both rnc.org and gop.org appear to be down? Are the evil librul haxorz attacking the faithful?
KukriKhan
09-03-2008, 03:36
New 3-day temporary poll is up. Pick the ticket you think WILL win, if the vote were taken today, versus which ticket you'd like to win.
Poll will close 5 September, and be withdrawn. Other polls may be posted.
Thanks for playing :bow: Poll is public, showing your vote.
And can someone tell me why both rnc.org and gop.org appear to be down? Are the evil librul haxorz attacking the faithful?
They might not be down at all - but they could be overwhelmed with hits that prevent some access during key times such as the convention.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 03:39
Anybody got a good link for watching the Repub Convention? I'd like it to be hi-def, commercial-free and sans talking heads, if at all possible. There was a stream from the DNC for the last shindig, I was hoping there's something equivalent from the RNC ...
-edit-
And can someone tell me why both rnc.org and gop.org appear to be down? Are the evil librul haxorz attacking the faithful?
seriously? Don't you get c-span?
Anywho: "The case against the case against Sarah Palin" from The New Republic.
The Case Against the Case Against Palin
A very good friend, who is a lifelong Alaskan and one of the smartest people I know, offers this word of caution to those (yes, like me) inclined to take Sarah Palin lightly:
At the end of 2005, a close friend called to say that he begun writing speeches and talking points for a certain gubernatorial candidate.
"Remind me," I asked. "Who is Sarah Palin?"
I was dismayed at my friend’s choice of political entree. Why was he wasting his time on a relative nobody, trying to beat an incumbent governor (and former three term senator) in the Republican primary? It was utter folly. "Wait until the big money starts coming in for Murkowski," I said. "Wait until the party machinery goes to work on Palin. They will eat her for lunch."
Murkowski, for his part, expressed a similar view. "If I decide to," he said, "I will run and I will win. It's that simple."
The folly, of course, turned out to be my own (and Murkowski's), as Palin slaughtered the incumbent in the primary--posting a 30 point margin of victory--and went on to win the general (over a former Democratic governor) without seeming to break a sweat. She then quickly fulfilled an implicit campaign promise by slapping down ExxonMobil, BP, and ConocoPhillips in negotiations over a proposed Alaska natural gas pipeline, even though they, too, by all accounts, were well prepared to dine on her tender little frame. Not bad for a lightweight.
Listening to the Democratic leadership respond to John McCain’s selection of Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate, one hears echoes of the Alaska Republican leadership from just a few years ago. Barack Obama’s spokesman, Bill Burton, put it this way: "Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency." Former mayor? If you're going to skip over her job as governor and, before that, her job heading the commission that oversees production of the largest petroleum reserves in America, why not "former high school student"? Bah, what does it matter: She's just a small town mayor, just a hockey mom, just a beauty pageant queen. Palin has never shunned these belittling monikers, in part, I imagine, because the camouflage has served her so well. Soothed by the litany, her opponents tend to sleep too late, sneer too much, and forget who it is that hires them.
Watching Palin operate over the past few years has been like witnessing a dramatic reading of All the King’s Men. In 2002, Murkowski had interviewed but passed over Palin in selecting a replacement for the senate seat he vacated to become governor. In a grand act of nepotism, he chose his own daughter instead. Palin was tossed a bone: She chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, which oversees the production of petroleum in Alaska. When she reported conflicts of interest and other ethical violations by another commissioner, she was ignored by Murkowski’s chief of staff and ultimately resigned in frustration. One can imagine how the quick double dose of corruption--insiders having their way with the polity and its resources--sickened the young Palin. It also fired a savage competitiveness that is not, perhaps, apparent at first glance.
What the Republicans missed about Sarah Palin then--and what the Democrats seem poised to miss now--is that she is a true political savant; a candidate with a knack for identifying the key gripes of the populace and packaging herself as the solution. That keen political nose has enabled her to routinely outperform her resume. Nearly two years into her administration, she still racks up approval ratings of 80 per cent or better.
One might reasonably ask to what extent her local popularity is buoyed by the high price of oil (and thus, a budget surplus, and thus, the ability to carry a stick into meetings with big oil). One might speculate about the durability of her anti-corruption stance in light of her conflict of interest in the dismissal of her director of public safety. And only the truly feckless would not concern themselves about her dearth of foreign policy experience. But in probing this candidate, it would behoove the Democrats and the pundits to shed the notion that they are dealing with some dimwitted bumpkin (Dan Quayle seems to come up a lot lately) who’s going to start crying when they ask her to name the president of Azerbaijan; or that Palin is the townie who was brought into the Skull & Bones initiation night for the amusement of all; or that somehow the prom queen ballots got mixed up with the Alaska gubernatorial poll. Trivialize her at your own peril.
Sarah Palin is a living reminder that the ultimate source of political power in this country is not the Kennedy School or the Davos Summit or an Ariana Huffington salon; even now, power emanates from the electorate itself. More precisely, power in 2008 emanates from the working class electorates of Pennsylvania and Ohio.
Sooner or later, the Obama camp will realize that the beauty pageant queen is an enormously talented populist in a year that is ripe for populism. For their own sake, it had better be sooner.
--Christopher Orr
More Palin coverage from TNR:
*
Peter Scoblic attacks Gov. Sarah Palin's "frighteningly thin resume" and the even more frightening reality of her as the sucessor to the commander-in-chief.
*
Michelle Cottle explains why the Palin pick shouldn't satisfy heart-broken Hillary supporters looking for a strong female candidate and also how Biden needs to tread carefully given the gender issue.
*
Alan Wolfe discusses the complexity of Palin's evangelical faith and the way that Western evangelicals differ from those in the South.
*
Bradford Plumer asks how hard Palin really fought the "Bridge to Nowhere" and what that says about her supposedly reformist credentials.
*
Michael Crowley looks at how Jamie Lynn's recent teen pregnancy could affect how pregnancy of Bristol-gate plays out in the media.
*
Eve Fairbanks explains how Palin took Hillary's already bad "glass ceiling" line to a level of being ridiculous.
*
And finally Christopher Orr counters his own case against the case against the case against Palin.
Or maybe Anonymous is expanding its war on Scientology. No, you're probably right. A sort of Slashdot effect without the Slashdot.
-edit-
C-Span's online presence is curdled goat milk. We're a one-TV household, and in the evening the wife likes to watch her shows. So the Lemur catches a fair share of online video.
For instance, Mama Lemur had no patience for the blathering politicians in the Dem convention, so I caught most of what I caught right here at the PC. I figured I'd do the same for the Repubs. Is that so wrong!?!?!
Anybody got a good link for watching the Repub Convention? I'd like it to be hi-def, commercial-free and sans talking heads, if at all possible. There was a stream from the DNC for the last shindig, I was hoping there's something equivalent from the RNC ...Poked around a minute and found this (http://www.gopconvention2008.com/videos/). Seems to work.
Sasaki Kojiro
09-03-2008, 03:58
Dean and Obama should be ashamed of themselves for this one.[/B] I think having an ASS for a symbol is pretty appropriate.
“People’s families are off-limits and people’s children are especially off-limits,” Obama told reporters following a campaign event in Monroe, Michigan. “This shouldn’t be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as a governor or potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories,” he added.
A senior McCain campaign aide was quoted in the Reuters story as suggesting that Obama’s campaign was linked to the bloggers who were spreading the rumors.
“I am offended by that statement,” Obama said when asked about it by a reporter. “There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us. Our people were not involved in any way in this and they will not be,” he added. “And if I ever thought there was somebody in my campaign that was involved in something like that, they’d be fired.”
Oops!
seireikhaan
09-03-2008, 04:12
serious about that. I find it fascinating that Bristol Palin's pregnancy comes through to the Left as a liability for Sarah Palin. I truly do. I don't think Lefties know the Right anywhere near as well as we know them.
Had Bristol had an abortion, it would have been heralded as a 17-year old exercising her rights as a woman. Her mother, on the other hand, would have been the draconian throwback that would have wanted to hand her a coat-hanger. I'm telling you, that's how the Keith Olbermans/Jon Stewarts of the world would have spun it.
The 'thinking Left', and I do acknowledge they exist, cannot understand why Bristol's pregnancy hasn't caused a calamity in the ranks. This is mainly because to the Thinking Left, the Right is all about being old-school, and out of touch. It's not that Conservatives don't understand that teenage sex happens, its that we don't think it should be encouraged. And when it does happen, we believe in making the best of a bad situation. Sarah Palin, and her daughter for that matter, have done just that, so why on Earth would we want to dump them?
And meanwhile, the party that claims a woman's right to privacy is their fundamental goal has shown it's true colors, by outing a 17 year old girl. What about her right to privacy?
Dean and Obama should be ashamed of themselves for this one. I think having an ASS for a symbol is pretty appropriate.
:inquisitive:
I'm sorry Don, but what do you want Obama to do? He's already stated that the media should lay off the kids and family. Do you have any kind of evidence that Obama has any kind of actual control on the media? I thought America was all about being innocent until proven guilty? I guess I didn't realize that a media outlet being liberal automatically meant that they were under the control of Obama. :dizzy2: Show me some proof.
Also, I think you're being ridiculously crass and obtuse on the abortion issue. Believing someone has the right to an abortion does NOT mean that you think everyone must/should get one.
GeneralHankerchief
09-03-2008, 04:16
Get out the hankerchiefs! Here comes the gay disease!
Sweet, I think is the first misspelling of the word "handkerchief" that's happened because of my name. And it only took 2 and a half years! :charge:
And just so this stays on topic, I think the campaign season is far too long. By this point I'm sick of everything about the process, most particularly the media, which seems to have a goal of making us all jaded about every single candidate.
Poked around a minute and found this (http://www.gopconvention2008.com/videos/). Seems to work.
Not hi-def, but very nice nonetheless. Thanks! Now I can listen to Droopy Dawg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lieberman) live. Wow, that man is possibly the worst orator on either side of the aisle.
-edit-
My goodness. He's making some weird gobbling "mmmm"ing noises between each phrase, and the mic is picking it up. What the heck?
Crazed Rabbit
09-03-2008, 05:58
So the AP did a story (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080902225556.0ttr9pnn&show_article=1) on Thompson endorsing McCain, and right off the bat they mention he was an actor and presidential candidate. No mention of the fact that he was a senator longer than Obama has been. And then another reference to his acting.
Gee, yes, the media is completely objective. Or stupidly ignorant.
I'm sorry Don, but what do you want Obama to do? He's already stated that the media should lay off the kids and family. Do you have any kind of evidence that Obama has any kind of actual control on the media? I thought America was all about being innocent until proven guilty? I guess I didn't realize that a media outlet being liberal automatically meant that they were under the control of Obama. Show me some proof.
Yeah, he's made a meaningless statement in public. Do you think he couldn't say anything more behind the scenes? Considering how so many in the media are in thrall to him, they might listen if he told them specifically to lay off.
CR
Big_John
09-03-2008, 06:15
:inquisitive:
I'm sorry Don, but what do you want Obama to do? He's already stated that the media should lay off the kids and family. Do you have any kind of evidence that Obama has any kind of actual control on the media? I thought America was all about being innocent until proven guilty? I guess I didn't realize that a media outlet being liberal automatically meant that they were under the control of Obama. :dizzy2: Show me some proof.whoa, whoa, whoa! are you insinuating that obama is not a brainwashed assassin sleeper agent planted in american politics by islamist radicals operating out of beijing to overthrow the US government???
gonna need some proof on that one, big boy.
https://i36.tinypic.com/m99h5t.jpg
seireikhaan
09-03-2008, 07:05
Yeah, he's made a meaningless statement in public. Do you think he couldn't say anything more behind the scenes? Considering how so many in the media are in thrall to him, they might listen if he told them specifically to lay off.
CR
Hmm. What happened until "innocent until proven guilty"? Once again, rabbit, show me some proof that he's got actual control over media outlets. Show me the money.
Tribesman
09-03-2008, 07:41
Considering how so many in the media are in thrall to him, they might listen if he told them specifically to lay off.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Rabbit wants politicians to control what the media write :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
This election is just getting funnier and funnier , people who normally support every low down trick and piece of misinformation or outright lies are now geting all sensitive about what is said about their new messiah:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
CountArach
09-03-2008, 07:42
So the AP did a story (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080902225556.0ttr9pnn&show_article=1) on Thompson endorsing McCain, and right off the bat they mention he was an actor and presidential candidate. No mention of the fact that he was a senator longer than Obama has been. And then another reference to his acting.
Gee, yes, the media is completely objective. Or stupidly ignorant.
Reporting the news in a way you don't want =/= Liberal media conspiracy
Considering how so many in the media are in thrall to him, they might listen if he told them specifically to lay off.
CR
The media might be enthralled by him....but they are enthralled more by ratings.
people like to read about how their next door neighbor is a hypocrite......it makes them feel superior...this factor is magnified if it´s a public figure.
CountArach
09-03-2008, 13:34
More police brutality (http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002943334)
The crowd stayed orderly through a rally at the triangle staging area across the street from the Xcel Center, the convention site. But after most of the marchers left, a group lingered outside Mickey’s Diner, a local landmark, and refused police orders to disperse.
Police then fired pepper spray and used flash bang grenades, driving the crowd toward the Capitol as heavily outfitted officers in riot gear advanced across the Wabasha St. Bridge. Police later closed down streets around the convention center and extended the security perimeter around the convention hall.
The latest disruptions followed clashes Monday that resulted in almost 300 arrests. St. Paul Police Chief John M. Harrington said earlier in the day that 130 would be charged with felonies, including rioting, assault and aggravated property damage, and 50 would face gross misdemeanor charges. The other 103 would be charged with misdemeanors, he said.
At a press briefing Tuesday, Harrington said many of the arrested protesters refused to leave their seats in police transports and to provide their names or identities.
...
Some protesters complained that police were excessively aggressive and that some of those detained or arrested have been denied medical treatment. Police tactics included use of tear gas and riot batons to corral some groups into small areas and mass arrests.
...
Coldsnap Legal Collective, a group set up to give legal information to the convention protesters, said those being held by authorities are not able to contact them using their free phone call. In Minnesota, prisoners are entitled to a free phone call for legal advice, but the company that manages that service, Canada-based Inmate Calling solutions, will not have Coldsnap on its authorized free-call list for another 24 hours, according to Dan Spalding, with the progressive National Lawyers Guild.
...
Spalding said Coldsnap has received reports of inmates being denied medical attention. One protester was pepper sprayed in the eyes Monday, and was not treated until 10 a.m. today, he said. Others have gone on hunger strikes to protest the lack of treatment, he added.
...
Among those arrested in the protests was Amy Goodman, host of the Pacifica radio program Democracy Now!
Goodman said she was on the convention floor, when she received a call saying two of her producers were arrested.
“I came running from the convention floor at top speed,” to a parking lot where the arrests were taking place, she said.
Goodman said she asked the arresting officer to speak to a commander, identified the producers as journalists and displayed her own credentials. Officers grabbed her, handcuffed her and held her to the ground as she yelled for them to stop, she said. Goodman said a Secret Service officer confiscated her credentials, saying, “Now you don’t, they said.”
Flashbang grenades! On Civilians! Are you @#$%ing kidding me!?
CountArach
09-03-2008, 14:00
Alright, now that my rage has subsided I can get back to the job at hand... proving what Palin is really like...
I have stated in the past that the Reverend Wright thing shouldn't affect anyone's vote, and I stand by that. But seeing as people fall for stupid, superficial crap like that - this should be posted:
Jewish Voters May be wary of Palin (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html)
Palin’s church, the Wasilla Bible Church, gave its pulpit over to a figure viewed with deep hostility by many Jewish organizations: David Brickner, the founder of Jews for Jesus.
Palin’s pastor, Larry Kroon, introduced Brickner on Aug. 17, according to a transcript of the sermon on the church’s website.
“He’s a leader of Jews for Jesus, a ministry that is out on the leading edge in a pressing, demanding area of witnessing and evangelism,” Kroon said.
Brickner then explained that Jesus and his disciples were themselves Jewish.
“The Jewish community, in particular, has a difficult time understanding this reality,” he said.
Brickner’s mission has drawn wide criticism from the organized Jewish community, and the Anti-Defamation League accused them in a report of “targeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception.”
Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.
"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."
[B]Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 14:46
I like this article.
A TIME-WARPED SEXIST ASSAULT
By Andrea Peyser
Link (http://www.nypost.com/seven/09032008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/a_time_warped_sexist_assault_127183.htm)
HOLY hoop skirts: When did the clock tick back to 1958?
When Joe Biden tragically lost his wife and infant daughter in a car wreck in 1972, not a single colleague, friend or competitor advised him to quit his newly won Senate seat to raise his two little surviving sons.
Rather, he was sworn into office from the injured boys' bedside, and took to commuting an hour and a half each way from Delaware to Washington. And when Biden's second wife gave birth to a daughter, no one thought to ask him to step aside and stay home.
They all do it. John Kennedy did it; so did Barack Obama: Men run for office and serve in elected positions while creating small children without ever being patronized as "super dads" or "multi-taskers."
Nor are they penalized, ridiculed or dismissed for ignoring their kids. They're good dads.
If Sarah Palin, tapped as John McCain's running mate, were a man, it's unlikely we'd even be having this conversation. (A man, or a Democrat.)
Palin is a mother five times over. She also hunts, fishes, coaches hockey, has a day job as the governor of the state of Alaska - and is known to commute home from the state capital of Anchorage daily during session. Just like Biden.
And, until at least four months ago, Palin also had the ability to bear a child, which we've just learned is a talent she shares with her 17-year-old daughter.
But women on the left, who fought long and hard for the ability to raise children simultaneously with election cash, are in spasms. (Some have simply kept silent. Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton - where are you?)
The same lefty media that studiously ignored the adolescence of Chelsea Clinton can't wait to dig into Bristol Palin.
The Diary section of Daily Kos Web site had a curious way to make Palin's daughter into a campaign issue: "Considering Palin was chosen solely for her religious right family values cred, Bristol's shotgun marriage and pregnancy are very fair game. They are the direct result of this lunatic abstinence-only garbage, and should be highlighted as such."
The stupendously sexist New York Times printed a front-page article noting that some unnamed women argue over "whether there are enough hours in the day for her to take on the vice presidency, and whether she is right to try."
Which left the field weirdly clear for Phyllis Schlafly, who helped defeat the Equal Right Amendment - and also ran for Congress while raising six children - to tell the Times, "People who don't have children, or who have only one or two, are kind of overwhelmed at the notion of five children."
The only question we should be asking is: Can Sarah Palin do the job?
CountArach
09-03-2008, 14:49
Sigh...
The Diary section of Daily Kos Web site had a curious way to make Palin's daughter into a campaign issue: "Considering Palin was chosen solely for her religious right family values cred, Bristol's shotgun marriage and pregnancy are very fair game. They are the direct result of this lunatic abstinence-only garbage, and should be highlighted as such."
These people are in the minority. There have been more diaries urging everyone to back off than ever before.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 14:57
Sigh...
The Diary section of Daily Kos Web site had a curious way to make Palin's daughter into a campaign issue: "Considering Palin was chosen solely for her religious right family values cred, Bristol's shotgun marriage and pregnancy are very fair game. They are the direct result of this lunatic abstinence-only garbage, and should be highlighted as such."
These people are in the minority. There have been more diaries urging everyone to back off than ever before.
My girlfriends father pretty much said exactly that to me yesterday, to my massive loss of respect for his political view. He threw in an "If she had only gotten an abortion this would have never happened - she was stupid not to. It proves how absurd that movement is". This ordeal made my girlfriend a Republican; she is pro-abortion, secular and this is New York. We'll see how that carries.
I've been hearing so many people say that they watch the Daily Show and Colbert Report as their SOLE political and current events education. I'd suspect that they also watch Monty Python for history lessons and porn for relationship advice.
She wasn't vetted!!! :soapbox:
More right (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/02/AR2008090203462.html?hpid=topnews) than you know, friend.
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was not subjected to a lengthy in-person background interview with the head of Sen. John McCain's vice presidential vetting team until last Wednesday in Arizona, the day before McCain asked her to be his running mate, and she did not disclose the fact that her 17-year-old daughter was pregnant until that meeting, two knowledgeable McCain officials acknowledged Tuesday.
What's more, a website has revealed McCain's voicemail to Palin (http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php).
-edit-
This ordeal made my girlfriend a Republican; she is pro-abortion, secular and this is New York. We'll see how that carries.
Oh goody. I was worried about what we would do if we ran short of Long Island reactionaries.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 15:10
More right (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/02/AR2008090203462.html?hpid=topnews) than you know, friend.
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was not subjected to a lengthy in-person background interview with the head of Sen. John McCain's vice presidential vetting team until last Wednesday in Arizona, the day before McCain asked her to be his running mate, and she did not disclose the fact that her 17-year-old daughter was pregnant until that meeting, two knowledgeable McCain officials acknowledged Tuesday.
What's more, a website has revealed McCain's voicemail to Palin (http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mccains_voice_mail_to_palin_le_8644.php).
-edit-
Oh goody. I was worried about what we would do if we ran short of Long Island reactionaries.
My girlfriend is a reactionary? What part of secular, pro-abortion New Yorker (registered independent) led you to that conclusion?
Oh, sure, she's secular now, but I've seen how it goes with Long Island republicans. Pretty soon she'll be wearing a burka and denouncing mathematics as "Devil counting."
By the way, looks like some very serious checks are being written by the tabloids to anyone and everyone around Palin. This could get uglier (http://blogs.abcnews.com/liveblogging/2008/09/how-palin-is-pl.html).
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/cover_2.jpg
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 15:20
Oh, sure, she's secular now, but I've seen how it goes with Long Island republicans. Pretty soon she'll be wearing a burka and denouncing mathematics as "Devil counting."
By the way, looks like some very serious checks are being written by the tabloids to anyone and everyone around Palin. This could get uglier (http://blogs.abcnews.com/liveblogging/2008/09/how-palin-is-pl.html).
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/cover_2.jpg
They photoshopped that picture around the mouth.
Here is an article from our Canadian brethren. Why can't we be part of the same country? I think we should merge.
Flip the ticket
George Jonas
Wednesday, September 03, 2008
Link (http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=45f06f5c-db80-42ea-9541-016472dcd214&p=1)
Canadians should be able to vote in American presidential elections. The outcome affects our lives as much as it does theirs. Whither America goes, we go -- sometimes reluctantly, true, but that's hardly the test. Many Americans go reluctantly, too.
Besides, their elections are more entertaining.
If we wanted to vote in their elections, though, we'd have to let them vote in ours. Fair is fair. Would we really like that? It would kind of make us -- well, one country. I can see some of us making faces already.
Right. Perhaps we'd better not tinker with the system. Let them choose between Senators John McCain and Barack Obama down there, and we'll choose between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Opposition leader Stephane Dion up here.
Exciting, eh?
Come on, fellas, show a little enthusiasm. It's true that our candidates are only standard white males: Middle-aged, middle-class, perhaps even middling, with no fascinating race, sex or age issues to offer, but that's no reason to fall asleep, is it? Mabel, honey, show some life.
No use. Out like a light. At "Harper," there's still a flicker, but the monitor flat-lines at "Dion." I wonder what the Liberals would do differently if they could play 2006 all over again?
By the way, I like this Sarah Palin, don't you? I like her a lot. I only wish we could get to her directly, without having to go through an elaborate process of electing Senator McCain first.
If it's Sarah we want, chances are we'll get her anyway. Why do we have to do it the hard way? Why equip a wing of the White House for geriatric medicine first, watch the Dow Jones quiver every time the old man sneezes, read his medical bulletins with our morning coffee, look at a gaggle of physicians trail him, memorize his systolic and diastolic figures, sit glued to the TV
during his last stay at Bethesda Naval Hospital -- or maybe the Arizona Mayo, in his case -- then waste a day with the telecast of the state funeral, speeches, flags half-staff, Chopin's Marche Funebre, missing-man formation flights over Pennsylvania Avenue ? Why not just flip the ticket? Make him the Vice-President.
I'm being ageist, you say? Damn right. I can see why one shouldn't be racist, even sexist -- but ageist? What's wrong with being ageist? Being experiencist is far worse.
Yes, experiencist. Why worry about Sarah's foreign policy experience? I wouldn't worry about her experience, period. Or Barack's. Who has ever had any experience leading the free world before they've actually done it? Dental hygienists need experience. Presidents and tycoons learn on the job. The bigger the job, the less you need experience. What you want to be is a quick study.
When Sarah needs foreign-policy advice, she can do with McCain what Barack proposes to do with his VP, Senator Joe Biden.
"Hey, Joe, are you still up? It's me, Barack-- yeah, BA-R? right. Listen. Have you heard of a place named Bessarabia? Oh, they don't have oil anymore? Hmm, Malia was right, I guess; I'll have to increase her allowance ? Then what about Sao Tome and Principe? They don't have any oil yet, you say? Well, hallelujah, I was ready to invade. It's a good thing--I couldn't find the damn place on the map."
That's the point. You don't necessarily want presidents who can find places on maps. Presidents who can find places on maps are a mixed blessing. Any broadcaster will tell you: A little delay is a life saver. You don't want a talking head who speaks faster than you can bleep.
A casting director looking for someone to play the president of the United States in a movie wouldn't be terribly concerned about whether he or she could actually do the job in real life. You don't ask about the foreign-policy experience of actors; you want to know whether they can look and act the part. Whatever presidents may need in life, looking and acting presidential is what they need in the movies.
Now I'll let you in on a secret. There is no real life. The cinema is all. Real life is a movie.
Anyone who can play the part of a U. S. president in Hollywood can play it in Washington. Barack Obama and Joe Biden could probably do it on flashing teeth alone. They both have presidential smiles. And, in 2008, which is the here and now, Sarah Palin has presidential everything--and the Democrats know it.
It worries them, too.
That's why there will be scandals -- some are surfacing already. She has been inadequately vetted. (Probably true.) Maybe she's the grandmother rather than the mother of her youngest child. (Almost certainly false.) Her unmarried daughter seems pregnant. (She is.) Sarah may have flirted with Alaskan independence. (Possible.) As governor, she tried to use the weight of her office to get even with people who crossed her.
What? Shocking. Only in America. Certainly no Canadian politicians would do such a thing. Perish the thought. Would they?
Spengler on McCain Versus Obama:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JI03Aa02.html
"How Obama lost the election"
Devastatin Dave
09-03-2008, 17:46
Flashbang grenades! On Civilians! Are you @#$%ing kidding me!?
Civilians? Civilians commiting crime and being violent. Watch the videos of these unbathed anarchists.
Devastatin Dave
09-03-2008, 17:50
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/cover_2.jpg
Ahh, the even handed media, how nice.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 17:53
So there bringing the fiance to the convention? So whats the message there? Stay out of my personal life until it becomes an "awwwww" moment. I am really beginning to HATE my government.
Devastatin Dave
09-03-2008, 18:20
Ahh, the even handed media, how nice.
Oh, yes no bias... Check out the difference in covers..
http://www.usmagazine.com/exclusive-barack-obama-michelle-is-an-extraordinary-mother
Tribesman
09-03-2008, 18:26
What's more, a website has revealed McCain's voicemail to Palin.
That is damn funny Lemur , not as funny as Rabbit desperately flip flopping in confusion though .
More right (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/02/AR2008090203462.html?hpid=topnews) than you know, friend.
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was not subjected to a lengthy in-person background interview with the head of Sen. John McCain's vice presidential vetting team until last Wednesday in Arizona, the day before McCain asked her to be his running mate, and she did not disclose the fact that her 17-year-old daughter was pregnant until that meeting, two knowledgeable McCain officials acknowledged Tuesday.Wow Lemur, did you read beyond the first paragraph of your link?
The search process started in the spring. McCain's vetting team was given a list of 20 names and Culvahouse's group prepared lengthy background books on each candidate, based primarily on a search of public records. Ultimately, the list of 20 was pared to six serious finalists, then to two, and finally to Palin. According to several campaign sources, Palin was on the list from the start.
In addition to Palin and Pawlenty, the four other finalists are believed to have been Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman, the Democrat-turned-independent from Connecticut; former Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge; former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney; and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal.
All six were subjected to a lengthy background investigation that included a review of tax returns dating back seven years, a credit check, and a 70-item questionnaire that addressed nannies and household employees, infidelity, payment for sex, treatment for drug or alcohol abuse, and other personally intrusive subjects.
But nevermind....
She wasn't vetted!!! :soapbox:
Mailman653
09-03-2008, 18:58
Searching for Palin's 'Hot Photos' (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1838041,00.html)
Ha ha ha...."I doubt that any of us have ever considered any of our past vice-presidential candidates a sex symbol...that may be changing."
Devastatin Dave
09-03-2008, 19:10
Ha ha ha...."I doubt that any of us have ever considered any of our past vice-presidential candidates a sex symbol...that may be changing."
I thought Edwards was kinda of cute until he turned out to be a heterosexual...:laugh4:
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 19:10
The new Noonan article is out.
A Clear and Present Danger
To the American Left
September 3, 2008
By Peggy Noonan
Notes from the convention:
Drafts of John McCain's acceptance speech have been bopping around the inside of the campaign for at least a few days, and a question is whether or how much it will be changed to account for the hurricane in New Orleans and the Gulf coast. An early draft is said to have been direct to the point of rambunctious in drawing contrasts between the policies of Obama and McCain. "Lotta biography, lotta foreign policy, taking Obama straight on," said a GOP strategist Tuesday afternoon. The final draft may be different, softer.
Advice? By Thursday night rambunctious will be fine, and a relief. Great political parties must show compassion, but they don't want to wilt with the weight of it.
And: Wit, wit, wit. Humor. "A maid laughing is half taken," said a randy old Elizabethan poet. A voter laughing is half yours, and just received a line he can repeat next weekend over a beer at the barbecue or online at Starbucks. Here is a fact of American politics: If you make us laugh we spread your line for free.
[John McCain]1
I do not understand the absence of humor, that powerful weapon, that rhetorical cannon, in this year's campaign. There are a lot of things to say here but let me tell you the first I think of. America is a huge and lonely country. We are vast, stretch coast to coast, live in self-sufficient pods; modern culture tends us toward the atomic, the fractured and broken up. When two people meet, as they come to know each other as neighbors or colleagues, one of the great easers, one of the great ways of making a simple small human connection is: shared laughter. We are a political nation. We talk politics. So fill that area with humor: sly humor, teasing humor, humor that speaks a great truth or makes a sharp point.
Obama talked to the audience; he talked TO America. McCain should talk with the audience. He should keep in mind that if his audience is laughing and chanting, it will help him with his delivery. As they cheer he can smile, while checking his next line. I am told alternately that he has given up on the teleprompter and will go straight from text, and that he will use a teleprompter. I assume the latter is true. If it is it will be interesting to see if he has mastered it. That will tell us if he practiced the speech. That will tell us if he knows what this speech IS, which is one big fat brilliant opportunity. If he's reading from text, well, it is not true that this is impossible in the media age. People didn't use teleprompters until 30 years ago. But when McCain reads straight from text we tend to see a lot of the top of his head, with the soft white hair and the pink brow glistening under the lights. Which tends to accentuate his age. So how he does the speech is of more than academic interest.
Watch for this: How does McCain differentiate himself from President Bush – or distance himself from him -- in front of Bush's party?
***
The choice of Sarah Palin IS a Hail Mary pass, the pass the guy who thinks he has a good arm makes to the receiver he hopes is gifted.
Most Hail Mary passes don't work.
But when they do they're a thing of beauty and a joy forever.
***
Gut: The Sarah Palin choice is really going to work, or really not going to work. It's not going to be a little successful or a little not; it's not going to be a wash. She is either going to be magic or one of history's accidents. She is either going to be brilliant and groundbreaking, or will soon be the target of unattributed quotes by bitter staffers shifting blame in all the Making of the President 2008 books. Of which there should be plenty, as we've never had a year like this, with the fabulous freak of a campaign.
More immediately and seriously on Palin:
Because she jumbles up so many cultural categories, because she is a feminist not in the Yale Gender Studies sense but the How Do I Reload This Thang way, because she is a woman who in style, history, moxie and femininity is exactly like a normal American feminist and not an Abstract Theory feminist; because she wears makeup and heels and eats mooseburgers and is Alaska Tough, as Time magazine put it; because she is conservative, and pro-2nd Amendment and pro-life; and because conservatives can smell this sort of thing -- who is really one of them and who is not -- and will fight to the death for one of their beleaguered own; because of all of this she is a real and present danger to the American left, and to the Obama candidacy.
She could become a transformative political presence.
So they are going to have to kill her, and kill her quick.
And it's going to be brutal. It's already getting there.
There are only two questions.
1. Can she take it?
Will she be rattled? Can she sail through high seas? Can she roll with most punches and deliver some jabs herself?
2. And while she's taking it, rolling with it and sailing through, can she put herself forward convincingly as serious enough, grounded enough, weighty enough that the American people can imagine her as vice president of the United States?
I suppose every candidate for vice president faces these questions to some degree, but because Palin is new, unknown, and a woman, it's all much more so.
***
I don't think the most powerful attack line will be, in the end, inexperience. Our nation appears to be in a cycle in which inexperience seems something of a lure. "He's fresh, he's new, he hasn't appalled me yet!" I don't think it's age. While Palin seems to me young, so does Obama. I freely concede this is a drawback of getting older: you keep upping your idea of what "old enough" is. But only because when you're 50 you know you're wiser and more seasoned than you were at 40, or should be.
America, even as it ages, loves youth and admires its strength.
I think the left will go hard on this: Fringe. Radical. What goes on in her church? Isn't she extreme? Does she really think God wants a pipeline? What does Sarah Barracuda really mean? They're going to try and make her strange, outré, oddball. And not in a good way.
In all this, and in its involvement in this week's ritual humiliation of a 17-year-old girl, the mainstream press may seriously overplay its hand, and court a backlash that impacts the election. More on that in a moment.
***
I'll tell you how powerful Mrs. Palin already is: she reignited the culture wars just by showing up. She scrambled the battle lines, too. The crustiest old Republican men are shouting "Sexism!" when she's slammed. Pro-woman Democrats are saying she must be a bad mother to be all ambitious with kids in the house. Great respect goes to Barack Obama not only for saying criticism of candidates' children is out of bounds in political campaigns, but for making it personal, and therefore believable. "My mother had me when she was eighteen…" That was the lovely sound of class in American politics.
***
Let me say of myself and almost everyone I know in the press, all the chattering classes and political strategists and inside dopesters of the Amtrak Acela Line: We live in a bubble and have around us bubble people. We are Bubbleheads. We know this and try to compensate for it by taking road trips through the continent -- we're on one now, in Minneapolis -- where we talk to normal people. But we soon forget the pithy, knowing thing the garage mechanic said in the diner, and anyway we weren't there long enough in the continent to KNOW, to absorb. We view through a prism of hyper-sophistication, and judge by the rules of Chevy Chase and Greenwich, of Cleveland Park and McLean, of Bronxville and Manhattan.
And again we know this, we know this is our limit, our lack.
But we also forget it.
And when you forget you're a Bubblehead you get in trouble, you misjudge things. For one thing, you assume evangelical Christians will be appalled and left agitated by the circumstances of Mrs. Palin's daughter. But modern American evangelicals are among the last people who'd judge her harshly. It is the left that is about to go crazy with Puritan judgments; it is the right that is about to show what mellow looks like. Religious conservatives know something's wrong with us, that man's a mess. They are not left dazed by the latest applications of this fact. "This just in – there's a lot of sinning going on out there" is not a headline they'd understand to be news.
So the media's going to wait for the Christian right to rise up and condemn Mrs. Palin, and they're not going to do it because it's not their way, and in any case her problems are their problems. Christians lived through the second half of the 20th century, and the first years of the 21st. They weren't immune from the culture, they just eventually broke from it, or came to hold themselves in some ways apart from it. I think the media will explain the lack of condemnation as "Republican loyalty" and "talking points." But that's not what it will be.
Another Bubblehead blind spot. I'm bumping into a lot of critics who do not buy the legitimacy of small town mayorship (Palin had two terms in Wasilla, Alaska, population 9,000 or so) and executive as opposed to legislative experience. But executives, even of small towns, run something. There are 262 cities in this country with a population of 100,000 or more. But there are close to a hundred thousand small towns with ten thousand people or less. "You do the math," the conservative pollster Kellyanne Conway told me. "We are a nation of Wasillas, not Chicagos."
***
The mainstream media, which has been holding endless symposia here on the future of media in the 21st century, is in danger of missing a central fact of that future: If they appear, once again, as they have in the past, to be people not reporting the battle but engaged in the battle, if they allow themselves to be tagged by that old tag, which so tarnished them in the past, they will do more to imperil their own future than the Internet has.
This is true: fact is king. Information is king. Great reporting is what every honest person wants now, it's the one ironic thing we have less of in journalism than we need. But reporting that carries an agenda, that carries Bubblehead assumptions and puts them forth as obvious truths? Well, some people want that. But if I were doing a business model for broadsheets and broadcast networks I'd say: Fact and data are our product, we're putting everything into reporting, that's what we're selling, interpretation is the reader's job, and think pieces are for the edit page where we put the hardy, blabby hacks.
That was a long way of saying: Dig deep into Sarah Palin, get all you can, talk to everybody, get every vote, every quote, tell us of her career and life, she may be the next vice president. But don't play games. And leave her kid alone, bitch.
***
Final point. Palin's friends should be less immediately worried about what the Obama campaign will do to her than what the McCain campaign will do. This is a woman who's tough enough to work her way up and through, and to say yes to a historic opportunity, but she will know little of, or rather have little experience in, the mischief inherent in national Republican politics. She will be mobbed up in the McCain campaign by people who care first about McCain and second about themselves. (Or, let's be honest, often themselves first and then McCain.) Palin will never be higher than number three in their daily considerations. They won't have enough interest in protecting her, advancing her, helping her play to her strengths, helping her kick away from danger. And – there is no nice way to say this, even though at this point I shouldn't worry about nice – some of them are that worst sort of aide, dim and insensitive past or present lobbyists with high self-confidence. She'll be a thing to them; they'll see the smile and the chignon and the glasses and think she's Truvi from Steel Magnolias. They'll run right over her, not because they're strong but because they're stupid. The McCain campaign better get straight on this. He should step in, knock heads, scare his own people and get Palin the help and high-level staff all but the most seasoned vice presidential candidates require.
Didn't that Noonan article come out a few days ago? Or am I hallucinating?
Meanwhile, did anybody notice that neither President Bush, Joe Lieberman nor Fred Thompson used the word "torture" when describing what happened to John McCain in Vietnam? I could be wrong, but I was listening for the word, and I didn't hear it. I think this is less than accidental.
And Xiahou, your reliance on a smiley to make your point is getting Tribesman-esque. Latest on this brilliant choice (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/la-na-earmarks3-2008sep03,0,5932587.story) by McCain:
For much of his long career in Washington, John McCain has been throwing darts at the special spending system known as earmarking, through which powerful members of Congress can deliver federal cash for pet projects back home with little or no public scrutiny. He's even gone so far as to publish "pork lists" detailing these financial favors.
Three times in recent years, McCain's catalogs of "objectionable" spending have included earmarks for this small Alaska town, requested by its mayor at the time -- Sarah Palin.
But, uh, the McCain campaign knew that. That's why it's coming out in the papers and not in a prepared statement, and that's why the campaign is scrambling to respond. 'Cause they knew all of this stuff months ago.
Which would you prefer to believe — that the McCain camp knew everything, and is too incompetent to manage the release of the information? Or that they didn't vet the VP candidate properly? 'Cause short of outlandish conspiracy theories, I don't see a third option.
-edit-
Also, was it just me, or was the convention kinda empty (http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128536.html) last night?
As photographic evidence confirms, there were more empty seats even in prime-time than there are at the end of a Dodger game. At the Democratic Convention, if you didn't take root two hours before anything important, the fire marshal wouldn't let you in. Here, you walk right up and find a nice bar stool and table looking directly at the stage. A sign of flagging enthusiasm? Was everyone just at the Ron Paul rally? Who knows!
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 19:29
The condemnation is dying down. Finally.
There is a lot for everyone to learn about Palin and very fast. We are starting to hear about what has made her remarkable enough to be considered in the first place.
Don Corleone
09-03-2008, 19:52
You know how I know Palin is a good choice, Lemur? By how ardently you're going after her.
Think for a moment... if she really were half the walking disaster you and your Lefty buddies are making her out to be, wouldn't you WELCOME the choice? If McCain picked her without ever having vetted her, wouldn't you be thankful as TinyTim on Christmas Day? I know I felt pretty damned grateful that Obama was generous enough to pick that walking timebomb Biden to even things up for us. ~:)
I mean, were I Howard Dean, and I really thought I had a bullseye lined up here, I'd wait until Columbus Day to drop the hammer. But that's not the Democrats' strategy, is it? Instead, you've got people supposedly given to equal rights for women openly questioning Palin's maternal instincts for daring to put herself on the ticket.
I find it all amazing. I can't help hearing a large, resounding trap clapping shut, and I can already hear Chris Matthews squealing that racist America just wasn't ready for a black man.....
seireikhaan
09-03-2008, 19:53
So, Don, I don't suppose you've got any kind of response to my earlier queries at the top of the previous page?
Tribesman
09-03-2008, 20:00
You know how I know Palin is a good choice, Lemur? By how ardently you're going after her.
Think for a moment... if she really were half the walking disaster you and your Lefty buddies are making her out to be, wouldn't you WELCOME the choice?
But Don people do welcome the choice , they welcome it as a fun oppertunity to rip the piss out of people .
Also, was it just me, or was the convention kinda empty (http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128536.html) last night?
As photographic evidence confirms, there were more empty seats even in prime-time than there are at the end of a Dodger game. At the Democratic Convention, if you didn't take root two hours before anything important, the fire marshal wouldn't let you in. Here, you walk right up and find a nice bar stool and table looking directly at the stage. A sign of flagging enthusiasm? Was everyone just at the Ron Paul rally? Who knows!
Hopefully they were all at Ronstock '08. ~D
I think most people know (even if they don't publicly admit it) that the GOP is a dead man walking. They are going to get hammered in the congressional and state elections, and they have serious financial problems looming. It's going to be very hard to get an enthusiastic rally going, they should have moved it to Vegas if they wanted a decent crowd. At the least, they ought to open the bar, it might help. :barrel:
@DC - Somewhere in this thread, I'm on record: The GOP's best ally in this election is the DNC. Some how, some way, I have full confidence that they will screw up. You are right, the smart move would be to do a full, intensive, background check and get all the juicy details correct, then spill them all out in October.
But, uh, the McCain campaign knew that. That's why it's coming out in the papers and not in a prepared statement, and that's why the campaign is scrambling to respond. 'Cause they knew all of this stuff months ago.
Which would you prefer to believe — that the McCain camp knew everything, and is too incompetent to manage the release of the information? Or that they didn't vet the VP candidate properly? 'Cause short of outlandish conspiracy theories, I don't see a third option.No doubt you're right. Had they really known these things, immediately following her Friday speech, a campaign worker would have come to to the podium and announced:
"Sarah Palin's 17yr old daughter is pregnant, Sarah really is the mother of Trig (seriously), she, as mayor, recieved 3 earmarks that McCain didn't approve of, wasn't a member of the AIP...."
And so on. That would've been the way to handle it, but...
She wasn't vetted! :soapbox:
Or do you think there was another way "to manage the release of the information" between Friday afternoon and Labor Day? Tell me how you think they should have handled it, I'm curious.
Or, are you arguing that had she been vetted, they would've selected one of the other VP runner's up who never received or requested earmarks? I'm sure, Romney, Ridge, Jindal, and certainly Lieberman all have perfectly clean hands when it comes to earmarks. Or was it the fact that her daughter was pregnant that you think would've disqualified her had they actually vetted her? Why not argue that Biden wasn't vetted because his lobbyist son and brother are named in a fraud suit? The Obama campaign certainly didn't announce that.
You see, "She wasn't vetted" is nothing more than a talking point- it's meaningless on its own. Scandals that would've been missed if she wasn't vetted would be the real meat. And yet, I don't see anything revealed that would uniquely disqualify her as a VP candidate during a vetting process. So, "she wasn't vetted" has become the charge itself that supposedly disqualifies her. It's nonsense.
I think, when the journo's are out crying about her not being vetted, what they're really whining about is the fact that she wasn't vetted thru them. I suspect more than a few were downright offended that they weren't told she was on the short list until she was announced. Liberal bias aside, the worst thing you can do to a reporter is do anything that deflates their sense of self-importance. Fortunately, based on the link you thoughtfully provided earlier, it appears that some wounded egos are beginning to heal as WaPo at least seems to admit now that her vetting was pretty standard. :beam:
Don Corleone
09-03-2008, 20:28
:inquisitive:
I'm sorry Don, but what do you want Obama to do? He's already stated that the media should lay off the kids and family. Do you have any kind of evidence that Obama has any kind of actual control on the media? I thought America was all about being innocent until proven guilty? I guess I didn't realize that a media outlet being liberal automatically meant that they were under the control of Obama. :dizzy2: Show me some proof.
Sorry amigo, should have been better about getting back to you on this. Yes, as a matter of fact, I do think that Brian Williams, Charles Gibson, Katie Couric, Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer will do and say anything and everything that Obama and David Axelrod tell them to say and do, to the letter. I find the "I'll fire anybody in my staff that had anything to do with it" disingenous, as we all know that the blogosphere leaks will never be revealed. I'm not saying this because I favor McCain over Obama (though I do). I was saying this last year, with the way Hillary couldn't get a fair shake in the media. They all want to prove how progressive they are by getting Obama elected, and in fact, its a form of reverse racism, and were Obama half the man they claim him to be, he'd put an end to it. But he clearly thinks he needs their coddling to win, as do they, and so it continues. If you want proof, go back and watch any of the moderated debates between Clinton and Obama.
Also, I think you're being ridiculously crass and obtuse on the abortion issue. Believing someone has the right to an abortion does NOT mean that you think everyone must/should get one. You know, it is crass. And maybe I am being a bit antagonistic. But a part of me really does this believe this. There's a great amount of hypocricy swirling around the Democratic camp and their media allies at the moment, and I'm having a hard time understanding from whence it comes. On the one hand, you have the movie Juno, which won award after award about the courageous decisions made by a teenage girl who 'made her choice'. Then you have this whole broo-ha-ha about a real life Juno? And the media and the Democrats talk about what an unfit mother Palin must be ?
And you wonder why I sniff the air and call out hypocricy? And I really do think that if Bristol Palin had had an abortion, she'd be cheered by the Democrats right now. I really and truly do. They would tell you it was the only rational decision, and that it just goes to show that Sarah Palin's views aren't even good for her own family, let alone America. Since Bristol decided to wed the father and keep the baby, which reinforces views they despise, they're now out for her blood. And they're doing they're damndest to paint her with a scarlett "S" for slut. And yes, I think Obama, by way of David Axelrod, his media director, is tacitly approving ever last minute of it.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-03-2008, 20:57
...And I really do think that if Bristol Palin had had an abortion, she'd be cheered by the Democrats right now. I really and truly do. They would tell you it was the only rational decision, and that it just goes to show that Sarah Palin's views aren't even good for her own family, let alone America. Since Bristol decided to wed the father and keep the baby, which reinforces views they despise, they're now out for her blood. And they're doing they're damndest to paint her with a scarlett "S" for slut. And yes, I think Obama, by way of David Axelrod, his media director, is tacitly approving ever last minute of it.
I don't know that I would go so far as to label him "tacitly approving" though that is, of course, one distinct possibility. I think another possibile label would be "unwilling to take the political risk of openly confronting and lambasting the yapping attack dogs who're hleping him." Obama's only direct statements regarding the kerflaffle were to say he thinks families, especially kids, should be off limits. Don, you are quite correct that such a platitude counts for little without action behind it. If Obama named a few of the more rabid voices, publicly repudiated them, and returned their monetary contributions to his campaign, I'd be a bit more impressed with him.
To be fair, I think McCain should have publicly told Hannity to go back on his lithium and possibly even chided El Rushbo a time or two (Limbaugh is less mindless and repetitive in his attacks at least). I have yet to see McCain take this risk either.
RE the Address/SSN stuff:
I think Lemur summed it nicely. Totally inappropriate and should be prosecuted.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 21:20
link removed
Man, everybody should leave that kid alone. Like, completely alone, no blog posts, no pics, nothing. There's no way in hell a seventeen-year-old deserves this kind of national scrutiny. Don't click on Strike's link -- boycott every dang website that posts personal stuff about the teen. Just avoid them. There's nothing else you can do on the internets.
I don't mean to sound like the Leave Britney Alone kid, but I'm feeling much the same sentiment. Leave the kid alone.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 21:29
Man, everybody should leave that kid alone. Like, completely alone, no blog posts, no pics, nothing. There's no way in hell a seventeen-year-old deserves this kind of national scrutiny. Don't click on Strike's link -- boycott every dang website that posts personal stuff about the teen. Just avoid them. There's nothing else you can do on the internets.
I don't mean to sound like the Leave Britney Alone kid, but I'm feeling much the same sentiment. Leave the kid alone.
This isn't about the kid. I dont care what she does. I really dont. Its about the fact Palin claims to be someone of vuales and pushes social conservatism when in reality her family just like anyone else's is human. So why do they push these reactionary social laws? It is beyond me.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 21:43
The left is trying to paint Bristol as pregnant because of her mothers "enforced ignorance" about sexuality. The reality is that Bristol goes to Wasilla High School where there is sex education that is not "abstinence only" - just because her mother doesn't appreciate that there are public programs that teach kids how to have sex doesn't mean that her kids are in the dark. If anything, the fact that her kids are getting that kind of education was probably what made her concerned in the first place. Go after her mothers policies, experience, purported link with Stevens (who is a Senator after all - kind of hard to avoid dealing with him as Republican Governor) or even "troopergate" if you must, but this line should be out of the media's scope as well as the scope of any class act on this board.
This nonsense is all people I speak to are able to talk about regarding Palin and it is pathetic. I feel like I'm in pre-school. They don't know who she is, but they know her daughter is a whore and should have had an abortion. They also think that the media broke this story and that Sarah was denying it. These are the big issues that disqualify her from being the VP candidate?
There are times when it is just embarrassing to be part of the uninformed electorate.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 21:55
Wasilla High School where there is sex education that is not "abstinence only"
Swing and a miss. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view/2008_09_02_Sarah_Palin_principal_story/srvc=home&position=also
The left is trying to paint Bristol as pregnant because of her mothers "enforced ignorance" about sexuality. The reality is that Bristol goes to Wasilla High School where there is sex education that is not "abstinence only" - just because her mother doesn't appreciate that there are public programs that teach kids how to have sex doesn't mean that her kids are in the dark. If anything, the fact that her kids are getting that kind of education was probably what made her concerned in the first place. Go after her mothers policies, experience, purported link with Stevens (who is a Senator after all - kind of hard to avoid dealing with him as Republican Governor) or even "troopergate" if you must, but this line should be out of the media's scope as well as the scope of any class act on this board.
This nonsense is all people I speak to are able to talk about regarding Palin and it is pathetic. I feel like I'm in pre-school. They don't know who she is, but they know her daughter is a whore and should have had an abortion. They also think that the media broke this story and that Sarah was denying it. There are times when it is just embarrassing to be part of the uninformed electorate.
I don't think her duaghter is a whore nor do I think she shouldve had an abortion. I think she is a 17 year old girl and from the looks of it a 17 year old girl I would like. However I found extremely hypocritical of her Mother potential vice president of the USA to push one social agenda and allow her kids to go in a complete opposite direction. She is not a savior of the right just another hypocrite and liar in a prettier face. Not that I care I just hate this happy go lucky party that the GOP is having over her.
Tribesman
09-03-2008, 21:59
And you wonder why I sniff the air and call out hypocricy?
Its because the "conservatives" are full of it :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
But anyway , this election thingy .
That howling mad Murdoch is a pretty shrewd animal isn't he , able to switch political prefence as easily as he is able to switch citizenship .
I wonder what will happen to all the faux news fans if the changes he wants go through ? Changes that he wants because he thinks Obama is the one that he will be doing business with come election time .
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 22:00
Swing and a miss. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view/2008_09_02_Sarah_Palin_principal_story/srvc=home&position=also
I don't think her duaghter is a whore nor do I think she shouldve had an abortion. I think she is a 17 year old girl and from the looks of it a 17 year old girl I would like. However I found extremely hypocritical of her Mother potential vice president of the USA to push one social agenda and allow her kids to go in a complete opposite direction. She is not a savior of the right just another hypocrite and liar in a prettier face. Not that I care I just hate this happy go lucky party that the GOP is having over her.
They push abstinence. That is what they should be doing. They explain how sex works, why not to have it and tell students of the location of places to go should you become sexually active. Maybe they should have provided abortions on the premises? Lets find out if the teen pregnancy rate is any higher there than it is at other schools. There is a difference between informing and enabling.
Tuff, Strike, I'm sorry but I just don't think this girl should be an issue. At all. The most I expect from candidates' kids is for them to stand around after a speech and look adoringly at daddy/mommy. I really, really don't think it's right to drag the kid's personal life into the debate as though it's a legitimate talking point.
Just leave well enough alone, please.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 22:05
Its because the "conservatives" are full of it :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
But anyway , this election thingy .
That howling mad Murdoch is a pretty shrewd animal isn't he , able to switch political prefence as easily as he is able to switch citizenship .
I wonder what will happen to all the faux news fans if the changes he wants go through ? Changes that he wants because he thinks Obama is the one that he will be doing business with come election time .
Full of what? In what way? Do you think I would kill my own child to save my career? Do you think I wouldn't fight for my country if necessary? You may disagree, but we aren't full of it.
I have no doubt that you wouldn't mind gay marriage or your girlfriend to have an abortion if you didn't feel like having a kid, I just disagree with your opinions. I never said that "you would never support someone having an abortion in real life". I suspect that you would - I just don't believe that you should have the right kill a human being so callously. Fortunately you live in Ireland where there are ideal abortion laws (but that is changing). Either way you aren't "full of it", you are just wrong.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 22:06
They push abstinence. That is what they should be doing. They explain how sex works, why not to have it and tell students of the location of places to go should you become sexually active. Maybe they should have provided abortions on the premises? Lets find out if the teen pregnancy rate is any higher there than it is at other schools. There is a difference between informing and enabling.
As someone who was given sex ed in the heavily catholic influenced south Texas public school system the talk we got every year was "If you abstain you wont get pregnant but....and then the rest of the time we were told about how to buy and use condoms while girls were taught about the pill and diaphragms. Surprisingly their were no abortions on demand. Even though the nurse did put a condom on a banana. I had 862 kids in my class and not one ended pregnant or a father. Sooooo maybe there's something to that
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 22:07
As someone who was given sex ed in the heavily catholic influenced south Texas public school system the talk we got every year was "If you abstain you wont get pregnant but....and then the rest of the time we were told about how to buy and use condoms while girls were taught about the pill and diaphragms. Surprisingly their were no abortions on demand. Even though the nurse did put a condom on a banana. I had 862 kids in my class and not one ended pregnant or a father. Sooooo maybe there's something to that
Did they hand out condoms to you or did they tell you where to buy them?
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 22:11
Did they hand out condoms to you or did they tell you where to buy them?
If you needed condoms they would give them to you. IIRC there were some in the nurses office. But the big thing among us was that they taught us how to properly use them. Buying them wasn't the problem putting those buggers on was.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-03-2008, 22:23
On this point, I agree with the Lemur.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 22:26
On this point, I agree with the Lemur.
If the tables were turned and this were Obama it would be completely different.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 22:26
If you needed condoms they would give them to you. IIRC there were some in the nurses office. But the big thing among us was that they taught us how to properly use them. Buying them wasn't the problem putting those buggers on was.
I won't wear them. They are a waste of time. I'd rather just not have sex that much than wear that crap. Sex ed is bound to fail because sex with condoms sucks. Kids aren't stupid. Teachers tell them that sex is fine, but that you should wear a condom for protection. All they hear is that "sex is fine" and then figure out how much condoms suck and then hardly ever use them.
I used to think condoms were the holy grail until I tried like 30 different types and never used them again. Teach monogamy and putting it off until marriage. Also teach them about the terrible diseases that they will get and how much condoms suck and lure you into a false sense of security and how you still get genital warts, HPV, herpes and crabs when you wear them.
BTW - Lemur, now we are talking about sex ed in America. Much more appropriate.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 22:28
I won't wear them. They are a waste of time. I'd rather just not have sex that much than wear that crap. Sex ed is bound to fail because sex with condoms is a waste of time. Kids aren't stupid. Teachers tell them that sex is fine, but that you should wear a condom for protection. All they hear is that "sex is fine" and then figure out how much condoms suck and then hardly ever use them.
I used to think condoms were the holy grail until I tried like 30 different types and never used them again. Teach monogamy and putting it off until marriage. Also teach them about the terrible diseases that they will get and how much condoms suck and lure you into a false sense of security.
Oh... Well Im glad we had this talk about our sexual habits. At this point I will point you to studies that prove you completely wrong but Im just going to drop this.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 22:30
Oh... Well Im glad we had this talk about our sexual habits. At this point I will point you to studies that prove you completely wrong but Im just going to drop this.
My friends feel this way too- they always lie about wearing them so that they don't sound dumb. We are 25 and they go from girl to girl and it's a 50/50 shot. I'm in a 3 year relationship, but they are sluts.
They got into bad habits in high school thinking that they were safe and then started hammering away.
Teen birthrates have gone up most dramatically in black teens. Black teens tend to live in cities which tend to have more abstinence-light sex ed. Give kids all the condoms you want, but until they figure out that they shouldn't be having sex you can expect the numbers to rise.
Devastatin Dave
09-03-2008, 22:37
Tuff, Strike, I'm sorry but I just don't think this girl should be an issue. At all. The most I expect from candidates' kids is for them to stand around after a speech and look adoringly at daddy/mommy. I really, really don't think it's right to drag the kid's personal life into the debate as though it's a legitimate talking point.
Just leave well enough alone, please.
Well, its a little late since your boys in the media have practically masterbated to this story for the past week. Again, I wonder how many more "journalists" and "reporters" from the main networks as well as main sream newspapers have been sent to work on this story as compared to the Messiahs dealings with leftists radicals, racists churches, and known domestic terrorists. The coverage of this campaign is so obviously bias that even a guy like you might be able to notice, maybe.:yes:
Don Corleone
09-03-2008, 22:38
Look, Strike, I'm not a proponent of abstinence-only education models either, but you do have to admit, that is the only 100% method. Telling kids just to use condoms and have fun is irresponsible, and that is what some sex education programs amount to.
Now, I guess I'm failing to see where you made the hop from all of this to the conclusion that Sarah Palin is a liar and a hypocrite. She believes teens should abstain from sex, her daughter decided not to. How does that make her a liar and a hypocrite?
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 22:41
We are all adults here. I've noticed over the past few weeks that hardly anyone knows how to spell "masturbate" (looks at devdave).:juggle2:
Tribesman
09-03-2008, 22:51
Full of what? In what way? Do you think I would kill my own child to save my career? Do you think I wouldn't fight for my country if necessary? You may disagree, but we aren't full of it.
I have no doubt that you wouldn't mind gay marriage or your girlfriend to have an abortion if you didn't feel like having a kid, I just disagree with your opinions. I never said that "you would never support someone having an abortion in real life". I suspect that you would - I just don't believe that you should have the right kill a human being so callously. Fortunately you live in Ireland where there are ideal abortion laws (but that is changing). Either way you aren't "full of it", you are just wrong.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
absolutely clueless
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Flailing mindlessly
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Thats whats so funny about this VP nomination , it has got some of the "conservatives" floundering around like they have been caught out at low tide desperate to show they can still swim .
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 22:54
Look, Strike, I'm not a proponent of abstinence-only education models either, but you do have to admit, that is the only 100% method. Telling kids just to use condoms and have fun is irresponsible, and that is what some sex education programs amount to.
Now, I guess I'm failing to see where you made the hop from all of this to the conclusion that Sarah Palin is a liar and a hypocrite. She believes teens should abstain from sex, her daughter decided not to. How does that make her a liar and a hypocrite?
I agree on your first point however I thinking teaching adolescent males to use a condom should be included in any sex ed.
Its a couple of things. First the fact that if Obama had a 17 year old daughter and this happened the evangelics would be ALL over it saying how Obama has no morals etc etc. I also dislike the fact how Mrs.Palin and other social conservatives think they can tell others how to live there lives when in reality were all human we all make mistakes and trying to make morality into law just doesn't work. The GOP is acting like she is their savior that she has "real vaules" (whatever those are) when in reality she is just a normal person.
Don Corleone
09-03-2008, 23:06
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
absolutely clueless
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Flailing mindlessly
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Thats whats so funny about this VP nomination , it has got some of the "conservatives" floundering around like they have been caught out at low tide desperate to show they can still swim .
Well, to paraphrase Brer Rabbit, "please don't throw me into that vetting process". Seriously, despite all their trying, and let's admit it, the 3 networks & CNN are definitely pushing an Obama win, not much has stuck so far. Let's see, thus far we have:
-Her teenage daughter had sex. Her mother supported her decision to keep the kid. Yep, burn that witch.
-She's a crappy mother because she should have known the media would disembowel her kids. It's not the media's fault that they're breaking all rules, it's Palin's. Yep, again, he should drop her now.
-She fired a police chief who wouldn't fire her brother-in-law who was violating department policy. In fact, the brother-in-law was drinking while on duty and had tasered an 11 year old boy, and was eventually fired, failing all appeals. The horror.
Sorry guys, keep trying. Not that I don't already know that you will.... The funny thing is, come middle of September, you're going to be out of ammo, looking silly and more than a little bit rabid, and she'll be there, smiling back at you.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 23:11
Im going to say this now, I dislike both candidates very much. The only reason I will vote for McCain is so that Obama wont get his hands SCOTUS because I don't think my fragile self could take it.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 23:14
Im going to say this now, I dislike both candidates very much. The only reason I will vote for McCain is so that Obama wont get his hands SCOTUS because I don't think my fragile self could take it.
You are planning on voting McCain?
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 23:15
You are planning on voting McCain?
yes.
ICantSpellDawg
09-03-2008, 23:17
Call me foolish, but you seem to loathe him to the core of his being and - If i remember correctly you are in the demographic that is 90% in the bag for Obama? You are a tricky one.
Strike For The South
09-03-2008, 23:19
Call me foolish, but you seem to loathe him to the core of his being and - If i remember correctly you are in the demographic that is 90% in the bag for Obama? You are a tricky one.
I keep people on their toes. not to mention I have to much time on my hands lately
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 00:00
-Her teenage daughter had sex. Her mother supported her decision to keep the kid. Yep, burn that witch.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Floundering around
Come on Don , I know you ain't that thick , abortion doesn't even come into it .
-She fired a police chief who wouldn't fire her brother-in-law who was violating department policy. In fact, the brother-in-law was drinking while on duty and had tasered an 11 year old boy, and was eventually fired, failing all appeals. The horror.
Actually Don thats conflict of interest and possible abuse of office which is under investigation , as well as other issues like non declaration of business interests , reciept of payments from corrupt executives which are under investigation .
But hey for another funny story , her pastor preached that people who criticise George Bush will go to hell :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:She belongs to a loony church just like Obama and she obviously shares her preachers views or she would have left the church just like Obama should have .
Then again you can't expect her to share her pastors views can you , after all her church says the bible doesn't have errors which I suppose she agrees with , but the pastor rejects whole tracts of the new testament because they are wrong .
Perhaps its like Rabbits floundering earlier , she belongs to a group because she shares their values and message ...but just because she belongs to a group it doesn't mean she shares their values and message .
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 00:08
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Floundering around
Come on Don , I know you ain't that thick , abortion doesn't even come into it .
Actually Don thats conflict of interest and possible abuse of office which is under investigation , as well as other issues like non declaration of business interests , reciept of payments from corrupt executives which are under investigation .
But hey for another funny story , her pastor preached that people who criticise George Bush will go to hell :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:She belongs to a loony church just like Obama and she obviously shares her preachers views or she would have left the church just like Obama should have .
Then again you can't expect her to share her pastors views can you , after all her church says the bible doesn't have errors which I suppose she agrees with , but the pastor rejects whole tracts of the new testament because they are wrong .
Perhaps its like Rabbits floundering earlier , she belongs to a group because she shares their values and message ...but just because she belongs to a group it doesn't mean she shares their values and message .
Wow - for such a non-existent career there has been sooo much corruption and failure.
People would have you believe that she has no experience and any that she may have by accident is doused in corruption and degeneracy. Thanks for sounding the alarm, Tribesman.
Goofball
09-04-2008, 00:15
The left is trying to paint Bristol as pregnant because of her mothers "enforced ignorance" about sexuality. The reality is that Bristol goes to Wasilla High School where there is sex education that is not "abstinence only" - just because her mother doesn't appreciate that there are public programs that teach kids how to have sex doesn't mean that her kids are in the dark. If anything, the fact that her kids are getting that kind of education was probably what made her concerned in the first place. Go after her mothers policies, experience, purported link with Stevens (who is a Senator after all - kind of hard to avoid dealing with him as Republican Governor) or even "troopergate" if you must, but this line should be out of the media's scope as well as the scope of any class act on this board.
This nonsense is all people I speak to are able to talk about regarding Palin and it is pathetic. I feel like I'm in pre-school. They don't know who she is, but they know her daughter is a whore and should have had an abortion. They also think that the media broke this story and that Sarah was denying it. These are the big issues that disqualify her from being the VP candidate?
There are times when it is just embarrassing to be part of the uninformed electorate.
Believe me, it's exactly how the rest of the world felt when the GOP and the media were witch-hunting Bill C about a blow-job: it was completely ridiculous, had nothing to do with his ability to govern, and was a so transparent as to be child-like attempt by American conservatives to smear a populist president that they were unable to take down any other way.
I'm not gonna lie to you, it's satisfying seeing the shoe on the other foot now...
Biden on Palin (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2008/09/02/joe_biden_sarah_palin_is_good_looking): "She's good looking."
This guy is great- I look forward to their debates. :2thumbsup:
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 00:18
Wow - for such a non-existent career there has been sooo much corruption and failure.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Perfect , thanks Tuff , so much in a short time in a little town .
Remind me again , how big a defecit did this sound conservative manage to run up in a short time in a little backwater ?
I'm not gonna lie to you, it's satisfying seeing the shoe on the other foot now...
Thats what makes this turn of events so funny , all the little Limburgh fans crying foul .
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 00:18
Believe me, it's exactly how the rest of the world felt when the GOP and the media were witch-hunting Bill C about a blow-job: it was completely ridiculous, had nothing to do with his ability to govern, and was a so transparent as to be child-like attempt by American conservatives to smear a populist president that they were unable to take down any other way.
I'm not gonna lie to you, it's satisfying seeing the shoe on the other foot now...
You are equating Sarah Palin's daughter's actions with Bill Clinton slaying some dragon in the oval office and committing perjury about it?
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 00:35
You are equating Sarah Palin's daughter's actions with Bill Clinton slaying some dragon in the oval office and committing perjury about it?
Why not , surely the allegations of dodgy real estate deals were more important things to chase than him getting a blow job ..and she didn't even swallow :whip:
Don Corleone
09-04-2008, 00:38
First of all, no Limbaugh fan.
Second of all, I had a lot more respect for you Goofball, and some degree more for you Tribesman to ever suspect either of you as being gleeful that a 17 year old girl had her personal life outed all across the global media. Bill Clinton shouldn't have been impeached, but he was a public figure, he was abusing a position of authority and he was lying under oath. This is a 17 year old girl and you two are gleefully tarring and feathering her as the town whore. The two of you must be so proud.
Third, just to prove to Lemur and other Lefty's of some degree of dignity that I have some objective views in all of this, I'll actually open a legitimate grievance discussion about Palin. For the running-mate of the self-proclaimed ender of earmarks, she did seem to get Wasilia, AK more than its share. 30 million in 2 years is a good track record for the town, but as the taxpayer who footed that bill, I'd like some answers on where it went and made her think she was entitled to it.
As for the rampant hypocricy that neither Biden nor Obama are getting any fast pitches, hey, I don't mind. I'm happy to save it for October.
Goofball
09-04-2008, 00:49
First of all, no Limbaugh fan.
Second of all, I had a lot more respect for you Goofball, and some degree more for you Tribesman to ever suspect either of you as being gleeful that a 17 year old girl had her personal life outed all across the global media. Bill Clinton shouldn't have been impeached, but he was a public figure, he was abusing a position of authority and he was lying under oath. This is a 17 year old girl and you two are gleefully tarring and feathering her as the town whore. The two of you must be so proud.
Third, just to prove to Lemur and other Lefty's of some degree of dignity that I have some objective views in all of this, I'll actually open a legitimate grievance discussion about Palin. For the running-mate of the self-proclaimed ender of earmarks, she did seem to get Wasilia, AK more than its share. 30 million in 2 years is a good track record for the town, but as the taxpayer who footed that bill, I'd like some answers on where it went and made her think she was entitled to it.
As for the rampant hypocricy that neither Biden nor Obama are getting any fast pitches, hey, I don't mind. I'm happy to save it for October.
Apparently what wasn't clear from mo post Don, was that I also think the fact Palin is being witch-hunted because her teenage daughter is pregnant is as ridiculous and unrelated to her ability to govern as Billy's blow-job was to his.
The satisfying part for me is not that her daughter is being tormented, but that conservatives who thought that sexual promiscuity outside of marriage was enough to impeach a president are now saying that maybe it's not really such a big deal after all.
I have a daughter too, my friend. The last thing that makes me happy is seeing this little girl be dragged through the mud.
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 01:06
Apparently what wasn't clear from mo post Don, was that I also think the fact Palin is being witch-hunted because her teenage daughter is pregnant is as ridiculous and unrelated to her ability to govern as Billy's blow-job was to his.
The satisfying part for me is not that her daughter is being tormented, but that conservatives who thought that sexual promiscuity outside of marriage was enough to impeach a president are now saying that maybe it's not really such a big deal after all.
I have a daughter too, my friend. The last thing that makes me happy is seeing this little girl be dragged through the mud.
One is unrelated to an ability to govern because it is someone else entirely - the other is the married president having sex with an employee in the oval office and committing perjury when asked about his relationship with the employee. You are comparing them as though they are both private, when one is in fact public.
I can assure you that if Sarah Palin had sex with an intern in her office and then committed perjury about it - I would be all about an investigation and her dismissal from whatever office she was in. If she had sex with an intern in her office and admitted it when questioned under oath I would be disgusted and disappointed, but I wouldn't have called for her dismissal. I would vote her out of office the next chance i got.
You don't see a distinction?
I understand what you've written but I find it to be an absurd comparison. I'm sure that you will now defend it because you can't possibly be wrong here.
HoreTore
09-04-2008, 01:22
Uhm.... Sex outside marriage makes you a whore in the US? :dizzy2:
Don Corleone
09-04-2008, 01:26
Uhm.... Sex outside marriage makes you a whore in the US? :dizzy2:
I don't know, ask James Carville, or his mouthpiece, Brian Williams.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-04-2008, 02:34
If the tables were turned and this were Obama it would be completely different.
Not so, Strike.
I believe that Hannity should shut up about Michelle Obama; I think the jibes about his half-brother are in poor taste and irrelevant.
I will vote against Obama because of his policy pronouncements and because he's even more of a "big government is the answer" type than is McCain -- though more marginally so than I would prefer. Despite my vote, I still expect to be calling him President Obama come January.
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 02:37
Damn it. Huckabee's speech was way better than Mitt's. Mitt would have made a way better president than huck, but he is damn good at public speaking.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-04-2008, 02:40
Well, to paraphrase Brer Rabbit, "please don't throw me into that vetting process". Seriously, despite all their trying, and let's admit it, the 3 networks & CNN are definitely pushing an Obama win, not much has stuck so far. Let's see, thus far we have:
-Her teenage daughter had sex. Her mother supported her decision to keep the kid. Yep, burn that witch.
-She's a crappy mother because she should have known the media would disembowel her kids. It's not the media's fault that they're breaking all rules, it's Palin's. Yep, again, he should drop her now.
-She fired a police chief who wouldn't fire her brother-in-law who was violating department policy. In fact, the brother-in-law was drinking while on duty and had tasered an 11 year old boy, and was eventually fired, failing all appeals. The horror.
Sorry guys, keep trying. Not that I don't already know that you will.... The funny thing is, come middle of September, you're going to be out of ammo, looking silly and more than a little bit rabid, and she'll be there, smiling back at you.
Don:
I think I have hear the real reason behind the vitriol from the direction of the media. Based on Quinn's comments during her interview with O'Reilly, I'd say it was simple enough. John McCain surprised them and did not allow them to do the traditional "vetting" in advance that they have taken as their presumed right. How DARE he pick someone without securing media approval first!
Obviously, there are concerns with Palin's experience etc. I'm looking forward to hearing her speak for herself -- yes I know its a controlled format etc., and will analyze accordingly -- before I begin to make any substantive evaluations.
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 03:08
Sums it up pretty well, too.
A Shameful Week for the Press
by Yuval Levin
Link (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDU3Nzc1NjEzNGQzYTQ0NTA1YjM0M2UzNzNkODU3ODQ=)
I have always tended to think that conservative complaints about the media are a little exaggerated. There are occasionally obvious instances of bias and clear examples of a double standard, but most reporters don’t want to fall into those and some conservatives are surely too sensitive to them. But this week has changed my view. I have never seen, and I admit that I could never have imagined, such shameful, out-of-control, frenzied, angry, condescending, and pathetic journalistic malpractice. The ignorant assault on Palin’s accomplishments and experience, the breathless careless airing of deranged rumors about her private life, the staggeringly indecent mistreatment of her teenage daughter in a difficult time, the ill-informed piling on about the vetting process, the self-intensifying circle of tisking nodding heads utterly detached from a straightforward political event, have been amazing and eye-opening.
The reigning emotion of it all has been anger—anger at being surprised, anger at being denied the spectacle of a Republican circular firing squad, anger that a conservative pro-life Republican could also be a woman and might represent the aspirations of other women, anger at being handed a person they did not know and who did not know them, anger that this upstart thinks she can ruin their coronation party. And the anger was fed by, and was indicative of, a profound elitism—a sense that we were dealing with some redneck moron from a state with no decent restaurants. The Republican candidate for president chose as his running mate a young, charismatic, female Republican governor—probably the most popular governor in the country—whose attitude and resume ring precisely of McCain’s kind of politics, and who has been on most people’s short-list since he won the nomination, and the press treats it as a symptom of some terrible and reckless madness.
Part of the fault was surely with the McCain campaign’s own press strategy. They kept the secret a little too well to begin with (in part surely because the idea that it might leak out in advance was declared to be disrespectful of the Democrats’ convention), so reporters were thoroughly surprised. And after revealing the pick, they chose not to have Palin do a round of press interviews right away, making some reporters so angry and hungry they began to eat the furniture. As Palin could no-doubt inform McCain’s press team, you should never surprise or anger a wild beast.
But inadequate animal husbandry cannot finally be blamed for the shocking stampede we have been witness to this week. The spectacle reveals a deep rot at the heart of the political press, and has been among the most shameful chapters in the history of modern American journalism. Not everyone has joined in, of course, but essentially all of the important institutions of our political press have played their part in one way or another. We can only hope those involved have begun to come to their senses, and that they recognize the magnitude of their failure this week. That doesn’t mean they should go easy on Palin: it makes sense to look into her past (as it would make sense to look into Obama’s past at some point before November too), and she certainly needs to prove herself tonight and beyond, as any vice presidential candidate has to. But the treatment she has received is not what just any VP candidate would get, and the attitude and assumptions underlying this week’s amazing assault raise very troubling questions about the cream of the crop of political reporters. They have shown themselves to be too insulated and too solipsistic to help the public better understand our politics, and too self-important to report on events as they happen. This is far more than media bias. Let us hope it is a passing episode.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-04-2008, 03:10
I'm watching the Convention now, and I've seen Giuliani and Lingle speak. Giuliani is a very good speaker, and seemingly quite correct in his opinions on Obama.
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 03:21
The Biden dig was top tier:
"If I were Joe Biden, I'd get that VP nod in writing."
Classic
"Next time call John McCain"
Hiiiyyyooooo!
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-04-2008, 03:27
The VP comment was pretty funny, but I liked this one:
"Maybe they cling to religion there." (this won't make much sense unless you saw the speech, but it was perfectly timed)
This guy is excellent.
"How dare they question whether Sarah Palin has enough time to spend with her children and be Vice President? How dare they? When do they ever ask a man that question? When?"
:bow:
Everybody keeps talking about elites. I wish I had know they were going to use that word so much ahead of time -- could have made a great drinking game. Only I'm not clear, do they like these "elites" or don't they? Very confusing.
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 03:52
Everybody keeps talking about elites. I wish I had know they were going to use that word so much ahead of time -- could have made a great drinking game. Only I'm not clear, do they like these "elites" or don't they? Very confusing.
Palin hasn't used it once yet.
Don't act like you're not impressed. I'm really excited. They opened fire on a bull and didn't kill her.
woad&fangs
09-04-2008, 04:11
Nice speech.
She's used plenty of stupid Republican rhetoric but I guess it's their convention so it is okay.
Some of her digs against Obama are just stupid half truths(the claim Obama is not looking for alternative fuel sources stands out) but a lot of them were spot on.
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 04:13
Out of the ballpark. I was very worried, but that was excellent.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-04-2008, 04:14
Excellent speech by Palin, though I still have to say the Giuliani knows how to talk. :bow:
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 04:20
Excellent speech by Palin, though I still have to say the Giuliani knows how to talk. :bow:
Palin and Giuliani were the absolute standouts tonight. I liked "Raising McCain" that was a good song.
Let The War Begin!
m52nickerson
09-04-2008, 04:34
Palin's speech was;
Dig Obama,
Look what I did,
Obama will raise taxes,
Taxes bad,
Alaska has oil,
Obama like foreign energy,
McCain was tortured,
Obama talks to terrorist,
McCain will keep us safe.
Strike For The South
09-04-2008, 04:35
Not so, Strike.
I believe that Hannity should shut up about Michelle Obama; I think the jibes about his half-brother are in poor taste and irrelevant.
I will vote against Obama because of his policy pronouncements and because he's even more of a "big government is the answer" type than is McCain -- though more marginally so than I would prefer. Despite my vote, I still expect to be calling him President Obama come January.
Its the hypocrisy and the self richesnous of these people. I can't stand it.
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 04:37
Palin's speech was;
Dig Obama,
Look what I did,
Obama will raise taxes,
Taxes bad,
Alaska has oil,
Obama like foreign energy,
McCain was tortured,
Obama talks to terrorist,
McCain will keep us safe.
Actually, that's exactly what it was. In fact, she didn't even say those words - she simply pointed to a big spreadsheet with those exact words printed on it. And the words were spelled incorrectly. And she said nothing. And then she farted.
You've summed it up fairly.
m52nickerson
09-04-2008, 04:45
You've summed it up fairly.
I know!
Sasaki Kojiro
09-04-2008, 04:54
Guiliani's speech was vastly entertaining.
Guiliani: "Hope isn't a strategy!"
*Crowd cheers and waves signs with "Prosperity!" on them.* :laugh4:
Both of them gave very nice sounding speeches that hit obama pretty hard. But to do so they stretched a few facts a bit to far which will come back to bite them in a debate I bet. Palin stretched the truth so hard it snapped with her "thanks, but no thanks" on the bridge to nowhere comment.
Who was that woman who was leaving the convention center with a bunch of guys in suits part way through the speech?
Devastatin Dave
09-04-2008, 05:12
Great job tonight, that Lady is one tuff cookie. Good luck to all those who are questioning her abilities, I believe she's going to prove a LOT of people wrong.
I thought Palin's speech was very good, although it grates on me to hear Republicans talking about "big government" and "government is too large." I guess they're running against themselves? 'Cause they oversaw an explosion of government under Bush ...
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 05:13
Well - technically she is right. She supported it at first, then declined it - and then the federal government allocated transportation funds for the state instead. It wasn't technically the same allocation, but I see what you mean.
If you look at the real numbers - she has cut earmarks considerably from previous levels. It is very hard to turn off the faucet completely when it was on full blast. She keeps saying the bridge to nowhere thing, so I think that they are poising themselves to defend it in some way. When I first read about it I called BS as well, but as new details come out about it becomes more reasonable, but still a stretch.
Taxes have never "gone down" within recent memory, but they could. For God knows how many years overall tax percentages have constantly gone up under democratic administrations and during Republican administrations they stall and do small ups and downs. As soon as democrats come back into office they creep a little higher. Republicans say that they will reverse the course, but they never do. McCain is running as a spending cutter - which many democrats will admit we desperately need. His primary soapbox used the argument that plenty of Republicans say that they will lower taxes, but it is just a magic act if you don't balance the budget and cut spending - going for a more economical approach to problem solving.
We'll see. With the inclusion of Sarah Palin I do feel like we have the energy, vision, and agenda that puts the White House seriously in play (as opposed to before when we were just being desperately optimistic)
Giuliani's speech was phenomenally funny. I havn't heard much reporting on it so far. Some media outlets are focusing on Mitt's speech which I think I can fairly say was below par for him.
If I had to rate the speeches that I listened to, I'd have to say:
-Palin
-Giuliani
-Huckabee
-Lingle
-Romney
Romney wasn't crisp and hasn't delivered speeches in a while since the end of his campaign. His speech was lifted heavily from his stump speech, unlike the others (maybe I'm just sensitive because I've heard it 100 times). It just seemed a bit out of touch - like he hasn't been paying as much attention since he's been out of the race. I still love the guy, but I'll call a spade a spade (as much as I dislike Huckabee)
Wow, this is weirdly reminiscent of the Jesse Jackson castration video. Peggy Noonan (whom I love) and Mike Murphy thought the mikes were off, and the got all honest on each other. Check it out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg)
Here's a roundup of pundit reactions, no real surprises: Linky. (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/second-night-re.html)
Transcript of the Noonan/Murphy dialogue:
Murphy: You know, because I come out of the blue swing state governor work. Engler, Whitman, Thompson, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush. And these guys, this is all like how you want to (inaudible) this race. You know, just run it up. And it’s not gonna work.
Noonan: It’s over.
Murphy: Still, McCain can give a version of the Lieberman speech to do himself some good.
CT: Don’t you think the Palin pick was insulting to Kay Bailey Hutchinson, too (inaudible)
Noonan: I saw Kay this morning.
Murphy: They’re all bummed out. I mean, is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?
Todd: Yeah, I mean is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?
Noonan: The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political ******** about narratives and (inaudible) the picture. Yeah, but what’s the narrative?
Noonan: Every time the Republicans do that because that’s not where they live and it’s not what they’re good at and they blow it.
Murphy: You know what’s really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism and this is cynical. And as you call it gimmicky.
Taxes have never "gone down" within recent memory, but they could.
Pretty sure that's wrong, read a great article about that in The Economist recently, I'll try to source it for you. I guess it also depends on what you mean by "recent memory," but we'll hold off on that.
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 05:27
Wow, this is weirdly reminiscent of the Jesse Jackson castration video. Peggy Noonan (whom I love) and Mike Murphy thought the mikes were off, and the got all honest on each other. Check it out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg)
Here's a roundup of pundit reactions, no real surprises: Linky. (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/second-night-re.html)
She posted a frantic rebuttal to it here (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122044753790594947.html?mod=todays_columnists). Interestingly, I've suspected her of supporting Obama in this election because she loves talent and the art of persuasion (plus her son is in the Obama camp.) Because she is pretty fair minded and because Palin is such an obvious talent an pro-life to boot, I'd bet she shifts a bit in the coming weeks.
Anyway, I think the Palin coverage will shift in turn from easy shots to more legitimate big dog criticism. She is clearly going to be a player in this election.
Giuliani gave a good speech, and I lost money on the over/under of Sept 11 references. Palin's speech was decent, better than expected but a little long. At times she seemed to be channeling Ann Richards, that will help her in the days ahead. The 80's called Romney though, they wanted their speech back. Why was he railing on and on about liberals running DC? :inquisitive: He is aware the GOP controlled Congress from 94-06, right?
Palin should have gone with a lower cut blouse, and her pregnant daughter has a nice rack. That's about the extent of my political analysis. Waiting anxiously for the campaign trail pictures where McCain seems to be staring inappropriately at Palin. :2thumbsup:
Sasaki Kojiro
09-04-2008, 06:26
I think when all is said and done this will work out badly for the GOP. When you watch the speeches they're impressive because you see how popular they'll be with the republican base but the news stories about this are going to be about how palin made a divisive and dishonest speech
ICantSpellDawg
09-04-2008, 06:47
I think when all is said and done this will work out badly for the GOP. When you watch the speeches they're impressive because you see how popular they'll be with the republican base but the news stories about this are going to be about how palin made a divisive and dishonest speech
I'll bet you that is not what happens.
Big_John
09-04-2008, 07:21
divisive and dishonest has always worked in the past...
Divinus Arma
09-04-2008, 07:24
...her pregnant daughter has a nice rack.
Yes.
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 08:01
This is a 17 year old girl and you two are gleefully tarring and feathering her as the town whore. The two of you must be so proud.
Actually Don its attacking the mother for her comments and attitude , but you are floundering about "abortion" and "the daughters a whore" , neither of which have been said and neither of which are an issue , its all about the policies of the mother , her values and her judgement .
But you can't see that so instead go after fictional attacks to make you feel comfortable .
Well - technically she is right. She supported it at first, then declined it -
Palin is John Kerry , she wears flip flops....bloody hell this floundering just gets better and better :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
although it grates on me to hear Republicans talking about "big government" and "government is too large." I guess they're running against themselves?
:2thumbsup:
Guiliani's speech was vastly entertaining.
Guiliani: "Hope isn't a strategy!"
*Crowd cheers and waves signs with "Prosperity!" on them.* :laugh4:
Political rallies are always a great place to witness senseless mob mentality..
the guy in the pulpit can say virtually anything...it doesn´t matter if it´s true, or even if it makes sense....the crowd will cheer along merrily.
I´m not talking about any particular party here...this is true across the board.
CountArach
09-04-2008, 10:50
Political rallies are always a great place to witness senseless mob mentality..
the guy in the pulpit can say virtually anything...it doesn´t matter if it´s true, or even if it makes sense....the crowd will cheer along merrily.
I´m not talking about any particular party here...this is true across the board.
Yup, it works that way here as well.
This presidential campaign has just given birth (no pun intended) to a new INTERNET acronym
VPIL* - Vice President I'd Like to ......well...you guys probably get the idea...
I think we can all agree that this if nothing else makes this whole process worth it right now!:laugh4:
Palin's speech was;
Dig Obama,
Look what I did,
Obama will raise taxes,
Taxes bad,
Alaska has oil,
Obama like foreign energy,
McCain was tortured,
Obama talks to terrorist,
McCain will keep us safe.
using the same deconstructionist techniques so 'expertly' wielded by yourself i will redact the obama speech:
"hope
dream
dream
hope
dream
hope
hope"
how does that sound?
CountArach
09-04-2008, 12:32
Quite promising.
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 12:44
Wow I just listened to the speech in its entirety , I didn't realise that Alaskan politician was quite such a brainless idiot .
she really is just amother extension of the Bush idea ...hold on , can that actually be called an idea ?
4 more years
Banquo's Ghost
09-04-2008, 13:08
Satire is much more fun (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0903/1220372022069.html?via=mr). I hope this raises a small smile rather than frothings.
Palin breathed deeply and tried to concentrate. What would Jesus do? He certainly wouldn't abort, that was for darn sure.
Lifting her head, she stared at the picture of President McCain staring back from its black-edged frame on the Oval Office wall. Poor John. After all those worries about his health, who could have guessed he would be accidentally shot by Dick Cheney?
"The Russian media is definitely on a war footing," Zbdgrnkvwrcz chipped in, producing a sheaf of newspapers from his briefcase. "'Sarah wants my pipeline, says Putin'. That's the front page of Pravda . 'I'll show beauty queen the beast, vows Putin'. That's the front page of Izvestia . 'Our Vlad will im-Palin her'. That's on page three of Peasant Moron ."
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 13:41
Satire is much more fun.
classic .:2thumbsup:
Satire is much more fun (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0903/1220372022069.html?via=mr). I hope this raises a small smile rather than frothings.
Palin breathed deeply and tried to concentrate. What would Jesus do? He certainly wouldn't abort, that was for darn sure.
Lifting her head, she stared at the picture of President McCain staring back from its black-edged frame on the Oval Office wall. Poor John. After all those worries about his health, who could have guessed he would be accidentally shot by Dick Cheney?
"The Russian media is definitely on a war footing," Zbdgrnkvwrcz chipped in, producing a sheaf of newspapers from his briefcase. "'Sarah wants my pipeline, says Putin'. That's the front page of Pravda . 'I'll show beauty queen the beast, vows Putin'. That's the front page of Izvestia . 'Our Vlad will im-Palin her'. That's on page three of Peasant Moron ."
And can you really follow what Jesus would do? he´s related to that God guy isn´t he?
God told us to beat our swords into ploughshares....
God....wrong on defense....wrong for America!!! :smash::laugh4:
this guy is on fire this week!
http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-09-04.gif
:laugh4:
FactionHeir
09-04-2008, 14:53
Thanks for the good laughs Ronin :grin2:
Crazed Rabbit
09-04-2008, 16:26
Perhaps its like Rabbits floundering earlier , she belongs to a group because she shares their values and message ...but just because she belongs to a group it doesn't mean she shares their values and message .
What are you going on about? Are you surprised that a person doesn't share every last value of a group they join? That maybe they join a group because of its main values? Can you not distinguish the two? Are you unable or are you just pretending to be that way so you can look clever to yourself?
If I told you a lot of American Catholics don't believe in the no-contraception thing, would you also be surprised by that?
This line of attack is even more useless than your usual ones.
CR
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 17:17
What are you going on about?
Errr ...Rabbit it was you wasn't it :yes:
It was you who posted a quote from a link that said the criticism of her views doesn't hold because she belongs to a group that has stated policies , that implies she agrees with those policies espoused doesn't it . Yet when you say that she doesn't neccesarily agree with the policies of that group then the claim that the criticism doesn't hold because she belongs to a group falls apart .
You cannot have it both ways .
But anyway back to the daughter thing , if this womans children are off limits during the campaign does that mean she will no longer tout her son as doing his patriotic duty or her bravery in not aborting a child with a genetic defect ?
Or is it a case of the usual hypocricy where crappy smear stories are OK as long as they are about the other side and families can only be on the agenda if they are being portrayed to the candidates advantage .
Strike For The South
09-04-2008, 18:23
But anyway back to the daughter thing , if this womans children are off limits during the campaign does that mean she will no longer tout her son as doing his patriotic duty or her bravery in not aborting a child with a genetic defect ?
Or is it a case of the usual hypocricy where crappy smear stories are OK as long as they are about the other side and families can only be on the agenda if they are being portrayed to the candidates advantage .
No no no. Its ok to make fun of someone's wife for papers she wrote in college. :wall:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317577,00.html
On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant. The sister of Britney says she is shocked. I bet.
Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves.
And by the way, the mother, Lynne Spears, has reportedly already sold pictures of the upcoming baby of her 16-year-old for a million bucks. Incredible pinhead.
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 18:32
No no no. Its ok to make fun of someone's wife for papers she wrote in college.
What?????? you mean Palin is really a carpet muncher and has had a gay marriage , blimey I didn't realise it went that far . I should have known Rabbit was right , just because she belongs to a group that is against that sort of thing it desn't mean she is actually against it, she just likes groups .
You are talking about the liberal media and the democrat attack machine going after Palins' family aren't you ?
Strike For The South
09-04-2008, 18:35
What?????? you mean Palin is really a carpet muncher and has had a gay marriage , blimey I didn't realise it went that far . I should have known Rabbit was right , just because she belongs to a group that is against that sort of thing it desn't mean she is actually against it, she just likes groups .
You are talking about the liberal media and the democrat attack machine going after Palins' family aren't you ?
Oh yea. That liberal media thank god there the way they are. Protecting us and such because if they wernt we'd have about 8 months of hypocrisy to go through.
Crazed Rabbit
09-04-2008, 18:37
You cannot have it both ways .
So you really don't get it? I should have known when you didn't want to answer any of the accompanying questions.
She agrees with the main policies of the group, which go directly against the smear you made. That doesn't mean she agrees with every little policy of the group. Like how registered Republicans don't always agree with everything in the Republican platform.
Meh, screw it. I guess I should just ask my standard tribesy question; do you really not get it or are you just being obtuse?
CR
Seamus Fermanagh
09-04-2008, 19:38
I thought Palin's speech was very good, although it grates on me to hear Republicans talking about "big government" and "government is too large." I guess they're running against themselves? 'Cause they oversaw an explosion of government under Bush ...
Full marks!
McCain is going to run AGAINST much of Bush's domestic record (even though he participated in some of it). Politics is an amusing game, no?
My real query is just how McCain will do at curbing government if he's in the White House. He's got a rep as someone who'll "work with" people. This may....or may NOT....mean he'll actually get it done.
Still, for me, the chance that McCain might do some of this beats the alternative.
*EDIT*
Tribesman:
Do you really believe Obama and Biden represent a better/smarter/more "in tune" alternative for leading the USA executive branch or are you just hacking at anything posted by our .org right-wingers on general principles?
Commentary on Palin:
Her speech demonstrated a good and engaging rhetorical style and she's obviously reasonably bright (at least by the standards of US political leadership). A convention is a fairly friendly audience, however.
Can she handle Biden in a debate?
Can she handle the full court press that will be made indexing her current statement of the moment with anything she has ever said ever in any venue (Note: this is the new standard of the internet-centric political world, i.e. there is no privacy now or ever and any and all comments ever made by you ever will be quoted and/or redacted against you whenever possible).*
Her platitudes sounded lovely to this smaller-government is best fellow, but will she really be a voice pushing McCain away from any deals that expand the scope and role of the central government? Is she McCain's tool to dupe the base or, worse yet, a patsy he's using for the same purpose?
* For example: Limbaugh today featured two soundbites by Joe Biden. One, made to the media denying that he had made a statement in favor of prosecuting Bush for War Crimes. The other soundbite was from a speech made to an audience of (mostly) elderly democrats in Florida, yesterday, wherein he said that the Obama-Biden administration would prosecute anyone who'd been determined to have been guilty of war crimes, including the Attorney General or the President.
Limbaugh's analysis "deconstructed" Biden's statements as being:
a) political pandering to an audience that would love to see Bush on trial as a war criminal [Limbaugh is correct in this],
b) evidence that Obama-Biden would move to put Bush and Cheney on trial [Limbaugh is incorrect here. Biden was using very precise language that said they'd move to try anyone who was determined to be guilty -- no specific promise to prosecute anyone was made. Biden was just letting the audience dream up their own answer and hoping they wouldn't call him on the specifics -- political SOP],
c) asserting that this was "Stalinist" because that's what the old CCCP did to the previous administration [Limbaugh is well aware that Biden's statement doesn't betoken this and that NO U.S. President is going to actively work to get her or his predecessor put on trial for war crimes....if for no other reason than that they do not want that precedent in place when they are the ex-president. Limbaugh just wanted to tag Obama-Biden with the "stalinist" label], and
d) facetiously commiserated that Biden was at a loss without having the words of Neil Kinnock to go to [Thus bringing up, yet again, the old smear on Biden -- who was caught borrowing words (not a rare phenomenon in USA politics, where sources for facts and claims are nor reported in speeches at all (a pet peeve of mine)].
This IS the standard of political dialogue in the USA. Will Palin survive the left-wingers and mainstream media efforts along these lines that WILL happen?
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 19:58
Still, for me, the chance that McCain might do some of this beats the alternative.
So you are going for hope and dream rather than hope and dream , a wise choice .
She agrees with the main policies of the group, which go directly against the smear you made.
The "smear" I made :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Did they mention that only last week Palins staff denied that the story of the daughter being pregnant was true ?
Or that the wonderful future father and husband describes himself as "a ****** redneck who likes to shoot ****" ?
Now of course the pregnancy story wouldn't be much of an issue at all , if it wasn't for Palins pentecostal evangelism with her opposition to sex before marriage and support for teaching abstinance instead of sexual education .
To which you focused on the last bit and wrongly responded that she belongs to a group that is not opposed to birth control , the group is neither in favour for against contraception so it actually has no view on that subject and is irrelevant , it is Palins views on abstinence only education that were the issue , not the non views of some group she joined .
It was you who made the silly step of linking her belonging to a group and so sharing its views which was easily countered by first giving the groups views and then throwing in the groups views on the death penalty for good measure .
Rabbit with your floundering you walked straight into it , and continue to do so .
So you are going for hope and dream rather than hope and dream , a wise choice .
Actually, I think he's going for hope and dream rather than single party rule, which recent history has shown is pretty much guaranteed to be a disaster.
Big_John
09-04-2008, 20:23
the daily show was in top form last night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvOc2jej35c
CrossLOPER
09-04-2008, 20:44
That was not fair.
Still, also vikings.
That was not fair.
Still, also vikings.
What did the shirt say? I couldn't make it out.
Crazed Rabbit
09-04-2008, 21:08
To which you focused on the last bit and wrongly responded that she belongs to a group that is not opposed to birth control , the group is neither in favour for against contraception so it actually has no view on that subject and is irrelevant , it is Palins views on abstinence only education that were the issue , not the non views of some group she joined .
It was you who made the silly step of linking her belonging to a group and so sharing its views which was easily countered by first giving the groups views and then throwing in the groups views on the death penalty for good measure .
Rabbit with your floundering you walked straight into it , and continue to do so .
You haven't provided one iota of evidence saying Palin supports abstinence only programs. The only evidence any dems seem to be using is that she once wrote on a conservative group's questionaire that "explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support."
Now, she's joined a group that's not against contraceptive use. It's also against the death penalty. But she has said she's for the death penalty, and she has not said she's for a 'just-say-no' abstinence education program. And as for her Church; do you think all Catholics are against contraceptives?
So the facts seem to be against you, and since you've been known to outright lie in your posts, kindly provide some links to information you're basing your posts off of.
CR
the daily show was in top form last night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvOc2jej35c
best post of the week! :laugh4:
DAILY SHOW powns the republican party and takes it´s lunch money!:whip:
Tribesman
09-04-2008, 22:08
So the facts seem to be against you, and since you've been known to outright lie in your posts, kindly provide some links to information you're basing your posts off of.
Really Rabbit , thats a very silly thing to say , can you provide any examples of outright lies in any of my posts at all , or are you just having a bad time of it lately and pissing into the wind .
You haven't provided one iota of evidence saying Palin supports abstinence only programs.
I don't have to , all I have to do is ask if you are familiar with her actual statements on sex education and abstinance only policies from 2006 , if you are not then you are just fishing without bait or even a hook .:yes:
Ah seamus added to his post
Tribesman:
Do you really believe Obama and Biden represent a better/smarter/more "in tune" alternative for leading the USA executive branch or are you just hacking at anything posted by our .org right-wingers on general principles?
A bit of both ,
Its so funny to see the usual suspects crying foul when they normally support such moves when the shoe is on the other foot .
McCain has problems and Palin is clueless , just look at her speech that the convention had an orgasm over , it was pure bull , she hasn't the faintest idea and is so full of meaningles rhetoric its hilarious , I find it so funny that you praise her level of rhetoric when it is one of the things people condemn obama for in his speeches .
Frankly I am past caring which pair of muppets get elected , at least Clinton is gone though .
You need someone over there who can get a grip on your spiralling debt and re establish both the American position in the world and the general security of the west , neither pair are up to it .
Not wishing to ridicue George Bush (as that would be too easy) you need a uniter not a divider and both alternatives for office are on a course which is very divisive .
Strike For The South
09-04-2008, 22:13
If we cant knock Palin for being part of the AIP than we cant knock obama for his church right? I mean he doesn't agree with everything right?
PanzerJaeger
09-04-2008, 22:31
If we cant knock Palin for being part of the AIP than we cant knock obama for his church right? I mean he doesn't agree with everything right?
You do know that Palin was never a member of the AIP (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/alaska-party-official-says-palin-was-not-a-member/), right? Obama, on the other hand, was ears deep in the America hating.. and those are some big ears. :laugh4:
Interesting bit from a longtime Alaskan political blog (http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/palin-palooza-wrap-up/):
The stunner of the speech for me? “I said thanks, but no thanks to that Bridge to Nowhere”. Frankly, I was surprised she said it the first time, shocked she said it the second time, but again? Almost incomprehensible. This must be her test to see if that old George Bush theory that if you say something enough, people will just believe it, is true. No other explanation seems possible. This is easy to fact check. Really easy. Palin decided she didn’t want the bridge when she learned that Alaska would have to pay too much for it.
Man, Palin is a :daisy:. Seriously have had a sudden distasteful hate of her. What a horid little :daisy:.
Just had to say it :/
Nice speech though.
Interesting bit from a longtime Alaskan political blog (http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/palin-palooza-wrap-up/):
The stunner of the speech for me? “I said thanks, but no thanks to that Bridge to Nowhere”. Frankly, I was surprised she said it the first time, shocked she said it the second time, but again? Almost incomprehensible. This must be her test to see if that old George Bush theory that if you say something enough, people will just believe it, is true. No other explanation seems possible. This is easy to fact check. Really easy. Palin decided she didn’t want the bridge when she learned that Alaska would have to pay too much for it.
From a Reuter's story (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN3125537020080901?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10112):
A press release issued by the governor on September 21, 2007 said she decided to cancel state work on the project because of rising cost estimates.
"It's clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island," Palin said in the news release. "Much of the public's attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here."This one is hard to research, since most results just turn up recent news about the project. When she was campaigning she did make the case for federal monies for infrastructure projects. Later, as governor, she put a halt to the project citing rising costs.
I think that facts may be correct when she claims to have said "Thanks, but no thanks." to the bridge, but it sounds like she may be misrepresenting why she said no.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-04-2008, 23:17
Man, Palin is a :daisy:. Seriously have had a sudden distasteful hate of her. What a horid little :daisy:.
Just had to say it :/
Nice speech though.
So was Rosa Luxemburg, if that relates. ~;)
Devastatin Dave
09-04-2008, 23:50
Man, Palin is a :daisy:. Seriously have had a sudden distasteful hate of her. What a horid little :daisy:.
Just had to say it :/
Nice speech though.
Did Tribesy hack JAGS account? I remember your posts actually having more substance.:no:
Louis VI the Fat
09-04-2008, 23:57
Man, Palin is a :daisy:. Seriously have had a sudden distasteful hate of her. What a horid little :daisy:.
Just had to say it :/
Nice speech though.I can't help it, but this is exactly how I feel. Something about her just rubs me in the wrong way. I can't stand her, the sheer look of her, the way she talks, everything. I don't know why. I don't have it with McCain. He doesn't irritate me all that much.
FactionHeir
09-05-2008, 00:03
Sounds as if people are comparing her to Hillary, or where's all that sudden hatred coming from?
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-05-2008, 00:05
I just watched the Huckabee speech.
:bow:
Excellent orator, even better than Giuliani.
HoreTore
09-05-2008, 00:29
the daily show was in top form last night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvOc2jej35c
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Brilliant!! Simply BRILLIANT!
Crazed Rabbit
09-05-2008, 00:33
Really Rabbit , thats a very silly thing to say , can you provide any examples of outright lies in any of my posts at all , or are you just having a bad time of it lately and pissing into the wind .
*whistles* (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1966525&postcount=29)
Mexico hasn't banned guns , you are allowed shotguns , you are allowed rifles , you are allowed handguns .
Damn them things do kinda appear like guns to me .
Now of course there are restrictions , rifles must not be above .22
Rather wrong about Mexico's gun laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Mexico), weren't you? So kindly provide links to prove you're not lying through your teeth in some sort of attempted cleverness.
I don't have to , all I have to do is ask if you are familiar with her actual statements on sex education and abstinance only policies from 2006 , if you are not then you are just fishing without bait or even a hook .:yes:
I showed the one statement I found, from 2006. Have you seen more? That statement I looked at does not show her to be a 'just say no' abstinence education supporter.
Did Tribesy hack JAGS account? I remember your posts actually having more substance.
The leftists are just hating on her because she represents a strong, self made woman who isn't a democrat. It's all well and good when those type of women toe the democratic party line, but they can't have them getting uppity and having their own opinions.
CR
HoreTore
09-05-2008, 00:57
The leftists are just hating on her because she represents a strong, self made woman who isn't a democrat. It's all well and good when those type of women toe the democratic party line, but they can't have them getting uppity and having their own opinions.
Trust me on this CR, no self-respecting true european lefty would EVER support the democrats. The lesser of two evils perhaps, but still evil. ~;)
They're like our conservatives, remember.
Crazed Rabbit
09-05-2008, 01:04
They're like our conservatives, remember.
Indeed (though Obama is on the left side of the democrats). But that must mean you really hate the republicans. :sweatdrop:
CR
HoreTore
09-05-2008, 01:07
But that must mean you really hate the republicans. :sweatdrop:
Indeedely-doodely ~;)
I can't help it, but this is exactly how I feel. Something about her just rubs me in the wrong way. I can't stand her, the sheer look of her, the way she talks, everything. I don't know why. I don't have it with McCain. He doesn't irritate me all that much.
Exactly it. It is irrational and as I said before it is distasteful, but man she just makes me boil inside and feel deep feelings of anger towards her.
She did pull off a fairly remarkable speech though - full of bs, lies and nothing at all about her abhorrent positions - but a very well written and delivered one none the less.
I don't think it is fair to say it is because she is a strong woman who is a Republican that I and others feel like this, not fair at all. I think it probably boils down to the fact that she represents views which are so anti-women and plain wrong, yet holds herself in a way which just makes you wanna go ARGH! I dunno, pretty messed up.
Huckabee's speech - while disagreeing with, let me see, pretty much all of it - was fantastic, the outright best of the night. Forget Palin's, her's was good because it was both unexpected and ticked every box she had to but Huckabee's was pure awesome oratory and feeling - nearly getting up there with Obama.
I am really enjoying this election so far, I guess it is helped because deep down I really can't see Obama loosing.
Indeed (though Obama is on the left side of the democrats). But that must mean you really hate the republicans. :sweatdrop:
CR
Hate would be putting it mildly - downright disgust, contempt and unabashed vitriol towards the Republicans is how I normally feel on a safe day. The views, a lot of the supporters and the general attitude is just horrible.
The Democrats I can tolerate because while the economic message is somewhat weakened, when comparing it to any decent party of the left over here, on social issues the Democrats are pretty good.
HoreTore
09-05-2008, 01:26
The Democrats I can tolerate because while the economic message is somewhat weakened, when comparing it to any decent party of the left over here, on social issues the Democrats are pretty good.
Gah, you tolerate someone who wants to destroy any notion of a welfare state? I'm deeply disappointed with you, JAG... :no:
KukriKhan
09-05-2008, 01:34
Let me reinforce an old backroom rule: we will not have the b-bomb as reference to any woman. Not even from a woman.
Thanks for your time. :bow:
Let me reinforce an old backroom rule: we will not have the b-bomb as reference to any woman. Not even from a woman.
Thanks for your time. :bow:
I think that's the least of our worries as to what is said 'round here :juggle2:
OverKnight
09-05-2008, 01:50
A link to Slate's Sarah Palin faq (http://www.slate.com/id/2199362/).
And here's an analysis (http://www.slate.com/id/2199322/) of her speech before she gave it. It's prescient.
I was also amused by the Daily Show clip, media bias cuts both ways.
ICantSpellDawg
09-05-2008, 02:34
Huckabee's speech was largely a modified version of his stump speeches, but it was good. I like him better as a party man than a candidate because he sounds like a snake oil salesman. People should listen to the linda lingle speech. It was pretty weak on the oratory, but the meat of it was interesting because it paralells Palin's experiences and hase some interesting facts.
Strike For The South
09-05-2008, 02:39
They be snake oil salesman
Big_John
09-05-2008, 03:27
There all snake oil salesmanwhere?
Marshal Murat
09-05-2008, 03:44
SFTS - "They're all snake oil salesmen"
seireikhaan
09-05-2008, 04:07
Haha, was I the only one thinking "IRONY" at the end of McCain's speech where the crowd was cheering so loud that you could barely hear him? Clearly, they are mindless, star-struck groupies because they cheered him so much. Which of course means that he's some kind of pop star who isn't really ready to lead. :laugh4:
Big_John
09-05-2008, 04:09
Their all snake oil salesmanwhose?
ICantSpellDawg
09-05-2008, 04:15
Haha, was I the only one thinking "IRONY" at the end of McCain's speech where the crowd was cheering so loud that you could barely hear him? Clearly, they are mindless, star-struck groupies because they cheered him so much. Which of course means that he's some kind of pop star who isn't really ready to lead. :laugh4:
I thought the speech was great for McCain, which would be equal to decent for Obama or Palin. He read it much more professionally than he usually does and the ending was exceptionally strong. He made some funny quips and called for similar unity to the "purple state" theme of the Obama campaign. I liked his statement about putting independents and democrats into his cabinet. All in all I think it went quite well and, in combination with the speeches last night made the GOP convention extremely sucessfull.
Personally, I thought it was a terrible speech, made to look even worse after last night.
We shall see, I reckon the Republicans will probably get a couple point bump, they will still be going into the heart of the campaign season 4 ish points down. All to play for.
ICantSpellDawg
09-05-2008, 04:35
Personally, I thought it was a terrible speech, made to look even worse after last night.
We shall see, I reckon the Republicans will probably get a couple point bump, they will still be going into the heart of the campaign season 4 ish points down. All to play for.
My Dad thought it was "out of the park". I disagreed, but he is the archetype of the middle American, so it is worth note.
The speech was pretty good, McCain's delivery wasn't the greatest. The debates will be where McCain will have his chance to shine.
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