Dang Urban Malitia

[Kamakazi]

I know that over all urban malitia are relitivly weak... They do have a bonus v armor though...even with that they always get crushed :wall: by just baout every unit i send them agains

any tactics or matchups u can gimme to help me use them better?

id be greatly appreciative


:evilgrin:

[I of the Storm]

Don't use them in the open. Especially not unsupported. When defending, deploy in woods. They perform quite good there, esp. against all sorts of cavalry. When attacking, either don't use them at all or as flankers. Replace them with Militia Sergeants ASAP. Same upkeep, better stats.

Or as arrow-fodder/charge-brake.

Their main strength is their low upkeep. Especially those who have played a HRE early campaign are wizards with UMs afterwards ...

[mps247]

As IotS says, I have found them pretty useful as cheap flankers. Pin down a spear unit with one of your own, and charge them in from the sides.

However, I have found that they can hold their own against some of the early spear units, as long as you exploit their strong charge statistic. I think they make quite a good anti-spear unit in the early years - just because you haven't got anything that's much better or cheaper for this purpose.

Of course, as IotS has pointed out, upgrade them as soon as possible!

[caravel]

They are only useful as flankers or in woods as described above, their defence and moral stats are too low to make them useful in melee. They benefit from morale and armour upgrades, but are really just garrison units.

[Kamakazi]

ok ill keep that in mind in my eggy campain

[bamff]

They are only useful as flankers or in woods as described above, their defence and moral stats are too low to make them useful in melee. They benefit from morale and armour upgrades, but are really just garrison units.

Couldn't agree more - they are garrison troops. Any that I have will only ever take the field due to (a) shortage of other units; or (b) because they have a multi star general (why oh why was he not born a knight or something more useful).

I tend not to recruit them at all once I can recruit other units.

[Martok]

Couldn't agree more - they are garrison troops. Any that I have will only ever take the field due to (a) shortage of other units; or (b) because they have a multi star general (why oh why was he not born a knight or something more useful).

I tend not to recruit them at all once I can recruit other units.

Ditto all that. I never bring UM to a battle unless I'm absolutely desperate for troops, if they're serving garrison duty in a province that happens to be attacked, and/or if they're led by a general/governor I don't want to lose. I usually stop training them the moment Militia Sergeants become available.

[naut]

A bit like woodsmen, a sort of slow cavalry.

[bamff]

Actually jumping back to the original question of tactics and matchups...

I recall one battle when my garrison force of one unit of UM's had to face a rebellion....consisting of 2 units of archers.

I waited atop a hill.

They marched towards me.

Just before they got within firing range, I charged UM's down the hill head on. They smashed into the first lot of archers, who were then pinned against the second lot.

The second lot of archers tried to withdraw (To get back to a firing position I guess). Unfortunately for them, my UM's had hacked their way through the first lot, and were now hitting their broken line from the rear (as they were walking away).

A rare victory for the UM's, but it had a huge degree of luck involved!

So....match them up against archers or peasants - if you are lucky enough to pick your opponents....

[Ironside]

I actually had a recent battle were one unit of UM chopped through 3 units of hobilars in a open battle (forests are for wimps). So they aren't useless early on.

That they were valour 9 had absolutely nothing to do with it :laugh4:

[Knight of the Rose]

ok ill keep that in mind in my eggy campain

Eggy camp? Then you build CAMELS, not UB :yes: - same price, more value! In non-desert lands? Don't build them, build vanilla spears instead until you get to Arab Inf.

/KotR

[I of the Storm]

Egyptians? UMs? No way. You have so many beautiful units at your disposal! Camels, camels and camels as well as nubian spears, muwahids, camels...

[Ironsword]

^^ As above, camels a go-go.

I rarely even recruit UM's, vanilla archers and spearmen can decimate them.
For example; I had a rebellion uprising in Mercia in early, consisting of 7 units of UM's and 2 ballista. I had a unit of hobilars, 1 x spearmen, 1 x archers and a single royal knight (3*, great warrior, utterly fearless.) Needless to say, rebellion was crushed completely, I lost 16 men overall, mainly due to some lucky ballista bolts thumping into my spears.

[caravel]

With the Egyptians there is only one formula, and that is camels, nubian spearmen, ghazi infantry and desert archers. Vanilla Spears and UM are a no.

[Drunk-Monk]

I never recruit Urban militia or any milita unit for that matter,they just aren't worth the money.

[Martok]

I never recruit Urban militia or any milita unit for that matter,they just aren't worth the money.
I take it you've never played as the Almos then. ~D Almohad Urban Militia are one of the best infantry units in the game, particularly with regard to their modest cost and build requirements.

Also, Militia Sergeants aren't that bad either. Not that you'd want to use them in your center line, but they can be useful auxiliary units.

[bondovic]

The militia units are compromises, in a manner of speaking.

The UM are a compromise between dirt and flanking - not really dirt, but not really an ideal flanker either.

The MS, for their part, are a compromise between anti cavalry, anti line infantry and flanking. Not especially proficient in either role.

Halbs are supposed to keep the flanks clear of horsetanks or attack the enemy line, though for both purposes there are better units. Other than that, I suppose, they can be told to eat some of the enemy projectiles. But you rarely face anything other than arbs at that stage of the game anyway, so it's not ideal for them to be doing this bc of the arbs' ap bonus.

Pikes compromise between offense and defense in a kind of straight forward way. Talented at stopping charges and good at fighting. They cover less ground than spears so they are easier to flank. They don't have shields or armour, so they die ridiculously fast under missile fire.

So, ofc, there are uses for the militias. It's just that for every use you put them to there are specialists who do that same thing way better. Halbs, though, provide some sorry factions with a polearm unit.

I think, however, that the total attack value for a MS against cavalry is the same as it is for the Halb (I don't have access to any un-modded unit_prod, so can't say for sure - anyone?) as the MS has a base attack of 2 and a +1 against cav. The Halb has a base of 0 and a +3 against cav. The Halbs do survive longer, though, and this wins them the 'honour' of going toe to toe with the various HC war machines out there.

Does it pay to recruit them? Maybe, because what alternatives are there? Early on, it's UM if you want to flank. Later, it's MS if you want some anti cavalry. Later still, halbs will deterr flankers that would scoff at MS. Pikes, however, are a tad to vulnerable for my taste to be used at all. Though if you have the opportunity to fight an army that lacks missiles (and for some wild reason have massed pikes) you can have fun. Just charge away as they can take on both infantry and cavalry. But you really just recruit them in order to pretend that you're Alexander the Great. Thing is, he didn't really lose. Which you will. Scrap the pikes. And stop my ranting.:sweatdrop:

[Kamakazi]

Egyptians? UMs? No way. You have so many beautiful units at your disposal! Camels, camels and camels as well as nubian spears, muwahids, camels...


every time ive used nubian spears the got owned ...i had them in good matchups too......so i just stopped building them

[Martok]

every time ive used nubian spears the got owned ...i had them in good matchups too......so i just stopped building them
As I've said elsewhere, it's been my experience that Nubians really aren't a whole lot better than other factions' vanilla spearmen. Aside from taking on light infantry & cavalry, I don't rely on them to do much. I generally restrict them to garrison duty as soon as I can recruit Saracen and/or Muwahid Infantry.

[bondovic]

Again with the heat on the nubians! Stat-wise they are exactly as FS aside from 1 less charge (which you never use anyway) and the fact that they (the Nubians) enjoy disciplined status. They are therefore better units than FS, a unit that generally doesn't seem to catch too much slander.

Ofc, Saracens are better at holding the line, which is what they are designed to do, and Muwahids are better at flank protection, which is what they are designed to do. But the Nubians are competent at both roles and preferable to the specialists at whichever role they're not intended for. They're a compromise, much like the militia units and provide a measure of tactical flexibility. Such as forward pinning (something I find the saracens are quite crappy at) and being a spear wall (something the Muwahids are worse at because of lower numbers) all in one and the same battle.

I think they're kinda neat. :yes:

[I of the Storm]

Again with the heat on the nubians! Stat-wise they are exactly as FS aside from 1 less charge (which you never use anyway) and the fact that they (the Nubians) enjoy disciplined status. They are therefore better units than FS, a unit that generally doesn't seem to catch too much slander.

Ofc, Saracens are better at holding the line, which is what they are designed to do, and Muwahids are better at flank protection, which is what they are designed to do. But the Nubians are competent at both roles and preferable to the specialists at whichever role they're not intended for. They're a compromise, much like the militia units and provide a measure of tactical flexibility. Such as forward pinning (something I find the saracens are quite crappy at) and being a spear wall (something the Muwahids are worse at because of lower numbers) all in one and the same battle.

I think they're kinda neat. :yes:

QFT!:2thumbsup:

And they're available quite early.

[Ironside]

Again with the heat on the nubians! Stat-wise they are exactly as FS aside from 1 less charge (which you never use anyway) and the fact that they (the Nubians) enjoy disciplined status. They are therefore better units than FS, a unit that generally doesn't seem to catch too much slander.


Actually,they also got a small shield instead of a large one. Still better than normal spearmen though.

[bondovic]

Actually,they also got a small shield instead of a large one. Still better than normal spearmen though.

By the heavens, man, you're right! I guess they changed it to large in the XL mod. Or maybe Tyberius did it with his add-on? Then the FS are better indeed.

My bad. :shame: