Surprisingly good units

[QuintusSertorius]

This is a topic that's gotten a lot of mileage on TWC (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=152093) which I thought I'd bring here.

What this is decidedly not about are elite units, or any other expensive and effective ones. Like pedites extraordinarii or argryraspides or the various types of assault infantry out there.

This thread is dedicated to those regular, possibly even cheap units which are surprisingly effective given how uninspiring they may seem statistically.

My top pick are Celto-Hellenic Spearmen.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/celtic/rebel_mist_keltohellenikoi.gif

Available as mercs and hire-able for Gallic and Hellenic factions, they're cheap. Yet they're pretty much equal, stats-wise to Thureophoroi and seem much better at holding a line - even against phalanx units provided it isn't for too long. Get some experience on them and their morale becomes something terrible to behold. They're the mainstay of my battle line in my Pergamon game, and they never disappoint.

Next are Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers, or Peltastai.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/epeiros/epe_peltastai.gif

Again ridiculously cheap, available as mercs and recruitable by virtually anyone. Not only can they skirmish, but they make pretty reasonable medium infantry. Good armour and their sword has a high lethality (equal to a Roman gladius). Lots of javelins too and good stamina. They can hold your flanks, then move in to outflank, and still have the energy to chase down routers at the end of a battle.

The Thrakian variant are also not bad, slightly better armour and vicious AP swords, although they're not as skilled in melee.

Slingers. Bog-standard, basic slingers you get with many factions, whether Accensi, Sphendenotai or Iaosatae, they're all good.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/epeiros/epe_sphendonetai.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/romani/roman_accensi.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/aedui/aedui_iaosatae.gif

Why? Cheap and effective against armour, meaning they cut through enemy skirmishers like nobody's business, and in the right position will even whittle down their elites or general. Get them some experience (easily done when they're killing hundreds a battle with their slings, then running down routing troops) and they become holy terrors. The Gallic variant are available as mercs to almost anyone too.

Curepos/Leuce Epos, the Gallic light cavalry.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/aedui/aedui_leuceepos.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/aedui/aedui_curepos.gif

These guys are brilliant. Available as mercs almost everywhere, and they're among the cheapest cavalry. Not only are they tireless, but they have AP lances. Meaning when you're done harrassing the enemy line, you can use them for shock charges to the rear. Don't leave them in melee, though, the slow attack time on a lance will get them slaughtered.

What units have other people discovered are very good, in spite of them being cheap and perhaps not so great on paper?

[Timoleon]

I couldn't agree more about peltasts, especially Thracians. They are the most versatile unit available IMHO.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/makedonia/mak_thrakioi_peltastai.gif

Prodromoi cavalry are pure winners too. Their variant from Thrace are even better. They have great charge, armor piercing weapons, excellent morale and, most importantly, unmatched stamina.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/makedonia/mak_prodromoi.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/makedonia/mak_thrakioi_prodromoi.gif

Lately I've found that Ekdromoi Hoplitai are a surprisingly capable unit. They have the perfect balance between the Classical Hoplites' staying power and the mobility of Thureophoroi. They better than both in melee attack (of course Thureophoroi have javelins too), their defence is better than Thureophoroi and close to Classical Hoplites and they are 25% more numerous that both! Moreover they can be recruited in just level 2 native barracks. However they are a bit more expensive. I used them a lot to protect the flanks of the army and then outflank the enemy and chase the rooters.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/koinon-hellenon/kh_ekdromoi_hoplitai.gif

[QuintusSertorius]

Definitely agree with you on the Prodromoi, I think they're better than heavy cavalry, myself. It's that speed, stamina and AP weapons combo that can't be beaten. Even in melee with other heavy cavalry they're survivable, largely because the AI is too stupid to switch to it's secondary weapon when it has a lance.

[Socy]

Dont have time nor energy (:thumbsdown:) to upload a picture, but I find the Pantodapoi Phalangitai, if used correctly, to be almost as good as Pezhetaiori or Argyraspidai for holding lines whilst being alot cheaper! That is, flanks protected and supported by flankers etc. The Argyraspidai and Pezhetairoi are better though, but sometimes I question their cost vs their effectivity compared to Pantodapoi Phalangitai! :smash:

As you wrote QS, Celto-Hellenic Spearmen are awesome. Clearly one of my favoured troops considering price vs. effectivity. Peltastai aswell, pure gold. Even better are the Thracian I think, if not for anything else but for roleplay (Thracians = Original peltasts, if I'm not misstaken) Slingers are also damn lethal, simply love them. Considering the amount of damage they inflict on enemy arrmies compared to their price.. Well, they're godlike simply. Prodromoi are also ace! And I simply love the Thracian variant. Makes it able to field a Thracian army (With Makedonia/AS) including cavalry! :beam:

[machinor]

Persian Archer-Spearmen. Ideal garrison unit, good archer unit and quite capable spearmen unit if charged by skirmisher cavalry or horse archers. Easily the most versatile unit in the east and still really cheap. Gotta love 'em.

[QuintusSertorius]

Dont have time nor energy (:thumbsdown:) to upload a picture, but I find the Pantodapoi Phalangitai, if used correctly, to be almost as good as Pezhetaiori or Argyraspidai for holding lines whilst being alot cheaper! That is, flanks protected and supported by flankers etc. The Argyraspidai and Pezhetairoi are better though, but sometimes I question their cost vs their effectivity compared to Pantodapoi Phalangitai! :smash:

As you wrote QS, Celto-Hellenic Spearmen are awesome. Clearly one of my favoured troops considering price vs. effectivity. Peltastai aswell, pure gold. Even better are the Thracian I think, if not for anything else but for roleplay (Thracians = Original peltasts, if I'm not misstaken) Slingers are also damn lethal, simply love them. Considering the amount of damage they inflict on enemy arrmies compared to their price.. Well, they're godlike simply. Prodromoi are also ace! And I simply love the Thracian variant. Makes it able to field a Thracian army (With Makedonia/AS) including cavalry! :beam:

I can oblige you there:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/arche-seleukeia/seleukid_pantodapoi_phalangitai.gif

Having seen the havoc Swordmaster can wreak with them against all and sundry, I'm convinced with phalangites it's how you use them that really matters.

Another unit who qualify are the Classical Hoplites.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/epeiros/epe_hoplitai.gif

Everyone can recruit them, they don't cost much, and they'll hold a line - even against a phalanx - forever.

[Swordmaster]

Pantodapoi phalangitai for president. They've been indeed a hugely reliable unit, despite costing only 300-ish in upkeep. Plus, enormous AOR. If you can recruit them with one or two experience, you shouldn't bother recruiting Kleruchoi or Pezhetairoi (except for role-playing purposes) at all. The only negative thing I've noticed is that a head-on charge by heavy cavalry (kataphraktoi or hetairoi) can really throw the entire phalanx in chaos, which you won't have as easily with higher-ranking phalanx units. Of course, once the phalanx breaks, these levies are rubbish, and will run quickly.

Other units I think about now are:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/aedui/aedui_botroas.gif
Botroas

Playing a Celtic faction, these guys can save your kingdom. In the range of 300 mnai upkeep, they can get their strength from numbers. IIRC, the Bataroas aren't very different.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/kart-hadast/iberian_caetratii.gif
Iberian caetratii

For those playing in the western portions of the map, recruit these guys. They will eat up heavy infantry like you never thought was possible, as long as you don't have them outnumbered or surrounded.

[konny]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/aedui/aedui_teceitos.gif

Cheap and flexible.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/epeiros/epi_illyrioihippeis.gif

Even without missles, I found this one the best light cavalry for their price.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/hayasdan/hay_georgian_swords.gif

Kartvelebi Dashna-Mebrdzolebi (Georgian Swordsmen), just in case you don't know them. They are very early available what makes them the backbone of the early Armenian army.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/romani/roman_velites.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/romani/roman_polybian_hastati.gif

Often underrated, but their high defense skill can make them a killer of enemy light infantry.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/lusotannan/lus_northern_skirmisher.gif

Clona Gosnasio (Northern Iberian Skirmisher) are an awesome unit to back up slingers and archers. When those have spent their missles, they might act as skirmishers or even light infantry.

[QuintusSertorius]

Illyrian Hippeis are brilliant. They can shock charge again and again with those AP lances of theirs. Provided they're not alone, their axes are even good at taking out well-armoured cavalry.

[burn_again]

In my Sweboz and Aedui campaigns I use the baltic archers to great effect. They have 80 men, good range and you can use them as reserve spearmen if needed.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Eastern Axeman and Cappadocian Hillmen, also Cappadocian Spearmen. (Apart from the various flavours of archers the East has got to offer.)

In fact, the whole East seems to be full of surprisingly good units, and interesting possibilities for deploying them. Even Pantodapoi can be surpringsily good units. ~:joker:

EDIT: Also, Skutjanz & Sotaroas are actually pretty decent, and the various Belgae units are just awesome.

[Dutchhoplite]

Not the best troops but they surprised me when they defeated an attack from the Carthaginians:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/epeiros/epe_taxeis_hoplitai.gif

:beam:

[Tyrfingr]

Velites and Illyrian Cavalry, you got to worship them otherwise the velites will pepper you with javelins, charge your lines, hold you down until the Illyrians sneak up behind your backs and stick those AP-lances where the sun don't shine.

Illyrian coastal leavies are great too...

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Skutjanz

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/sweboz/sweboz_skutjanz.gif

They aren't that bad as archers, and once done with archering, they can plug gaps in your line with their spears, which can save the day for you. That many of them will die is rather unimportant since they are so cheap to replace.


Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/makedonia/mak_agrianiai_pellek.gif

I think they are just great. They are fast, can hurl their javelins a really long distance and are, most of all, apart-rippers of such godlike units like Thorakitai Argyraspides. You only have to keep them out of missile fire.

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm not sure assault troops, who are by their very nature pretty good, qualify as "surprisingly" so.

[Havok.]

https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/AmonAmarth16/lus_gestikapoinann.gifhttps://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/AmonAmarth16/lus_caetranann.gif

Combine this two cheap light infantary and you'll have a superb awesome fighting force, that can deal with basicly everything !

i love them!
:2thumbsup:

[Fondor_Yards]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/lusotannan/ele_ibe_iabarannta.gif


The Iabarannta are far better then I would have given them credit for. For whatever reason, whenever I let cavalry get in meele with them for more then 10 seconds, they start slaughtering them. Not just my Leuce Epos and Brihentin, but even my gold chevron Saka Cataphracts. Even when fighting my infantry they seem to do more damage then they should. I don't really remember fighting the Gaesamica, but since they have the exact same stats and model I'd image they just as strangely good.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/saka/saka_agema_hippeis.gif

I find these guys often more useful then my cataphracts in my Saka campaign. Very good heavy cavalry, just as useful as cataphracts since they are fast moving, hardy, and very good in meele against other cavalry. Catas often get exhausted after only a few charges, while these guys can keep going all battle long. I would have at least as many or more of them in my Indo-Greek armies then my Ysaninu Aysiramj. Plus look at that skin, they are dead sexy.

[Tyrfingr]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/romani/roman_camillan_rorarii.gif

The rorarii might be discarded as crappy garrison units, but think again! The huge stack of javelins gives these guy an advantage to similar units, and because of the close formation, they can actually hold down enemies while you send in the flankers. Before the polybian reforms, the rorarii is great!

[Beefy187]

Dont have pictures but... Sardinian infantry! Fantastic for killing Numidian rebel armies as Carthage. I just love archer-spearmen:2thumbsup:

[Olaf The Great]

You know they would be good...


https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/sweboz/sweboz_thegnoz_drugule.gif
But not as good as they are.
They're main advantage is they're the ONLY unit that can have gold weapons, thats 17 attack right there(for the swords) and 22(17 for foot units 27 for cavalry) for the spears.
Also due to the temples to Tyr, they can get +3 to attack and defense.

So thats 30 attack vs cavalry fresh from the barracks, well able to destroy the western cavalry, and can destroy even the most powerful cataphracts.

They're also available as mercenaries for all factions.


I once used them in an town attack, the Gauls had 3 units of Teceitos, 2 units of Botroas, and 5 units of Lugae defending the gate.

I sent 3 units of the Hearthmen and they slaughtered the enemy force very quickly, suffering about 10 men(normal sized) to 220 gauls.

Afterwards the Gauls ran away, and gave me enough time to set up the battle line.

[johnhughthom]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/romani/roman_camillan_rorarii.gif

The rorarii might be discarded as crappy garrison units, but think again! The huge stack of javelins gives these guy an advantage to similar units, and because of the close formation, they can actually hold down enemies while you send in the flankers. Before the polybian reforms, the rorarii is great!

Definately agree with this one, I played a lot of Romani campaigns and these guys never saw any action, just sat behind my almost as rarely used Triarii. It took an Epirote campaign where I fought against them for me to realise how useful they actually are, they see a lot of action in my current campaign.

[Arminius Germanicus]

indeed Olaf, the Hearthmen are my secret weapon in my Sweboz campaign.
they are my core shock troops and i hire every single unit of them i can find, send them straight to my capital to get them their gold weapons and 3 copper chevrons xp and away they go to the front.

they are the only units that can stand their own against all the gallic uber-soldiers and are most effective against the roman elite infantry.

currently, after countless battles and constant merging depletet units with fresh ones, i have 4 units of them on level 6 (3 silver chevrons) and they are true weapons of mass destruction that can easily bind multiple enemy units and give them a good beating without dying much!

on the other hand i just don´t see mto be able to get them over 3 silver chevrons, no matter how many enemys they kill. training up true elites is quite hard in this game, isn´t it?

Now, for another suprisingly good unit: the Jungthiz germanic skirmishers.

they are cheap, can practically run forever, have a good amount of javelins to harrass the enemy and once they are somewhat experienced and outfitted, they make up for an extremely versatile light to medium infantry. perfect for flanking the enemy lines and attacking from the rear after they have drawn away some units.

even cavalry cannot do them much harm as long as you keep them spread out and in skirmish mode. so they are ideal to bind the enemy cavalry and draw them far away from the main battle.

also, as defenders on walls they are quite able. they can give the advancing enemy some good pelting with javelins, then hold the walls against everything but heavy infantry long enough to tire them out and whittle them down. and they are easy and cheap to retrain and maintain.

also very useful to take care of careless enemy archers and slingers, especially if you can manage to get them behind the enemy lines where the archers tend to linger.

all in all they might be one of the best overall skirmishing units next to thrakian peltasts and one of the most versatile and valuable early units for the Sweboz.

[Justinian II]

Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/makedonia/mak_agrianiai_pellek.gif

I think they are just great. They are fast, can hurl their javelins a really long distance and are, most of all, apart-rippers of such godlike units like Thorakitai Argyraspides. You only have to keep them out of missile fire.

I don't think I've ever seen these guys; who gets them and where?

[QuintusSertorius]

I don't think I've ever seen these guys; who gets them and where?

Makedonia and Epeiros in Pella, Tylis and Demetrias. Need a L4 factional barracks for them.

[Cadwalader]

Perhaps not that surprising, but I think most iberian units are brutal. That's why taking Iberia's been like shoving meat into a grinder in my Karthadast campaign. I can't wait to get them myself.

[QuintusSertorius]

Perhaps not that surprising, but I think most iberian units are brutal. That's why taking Iberia's been like shoving meat into a grinder in my Karthadast campaign. I can't wait to get them myself.

If anything, Qarthadast's Iberian roster is better than the Lusotanni's.

[Ludens]

Makedonia and Epeiros in Pella, Tylis and Demetrias. Need a L4 factional barracks for them.

Minor correction: they are available in Pella, Tylis and Serdike, not Demetrias.

[Tristuskhan]

The only way I'm able to judge an unit "surprisingly good" is when I have problems breaking it...

For me the grand-champions are African Elite Pikemen. IA Karth-Hadasht fields huge numbers of them and when playing Ptollies I often see them inflicting huge losses to my Agema Klerouchon (attacking from the front) and Tindanotae (attacking from the rear). Tough nuts to crack...

[QuintusSertorius]

The only way I'm able to judge an unit "surprisingly good" is when I have problems breaking it...

For me the grand-champions are African Elite Pikemen. IA Karth-Hadasht fields huge numbers of them and when playing Ptollies I often see them inflicting huge losses to my Agema Klerouchon (attacking from the front) and Tindanotae (attacking from the rear). Tough nuts to crack...

They're elites; they don't really qualify as "surprisingly" so because they're supposed to be that good. That's why they're expensive and have high stats.

[Irishmafia2020]

Ethiopian Spearmen and Arabian light archer/spearmen are both surprisingly good units on the Sabyn or regional roster. The Ethiopians are cheap, but fast moving, and amongst the best light infantry that I have played with. The Archer spearmen do double duty, and they are slightly better than the Persian variant.

Baktrian Hippies - probably the best medium cavalry in the game... they hit like light cataphracts in a charge, and they don't wear out as quickly.

Indo Hellenic Medium Skirmishers - specialized elephant killers who double as Thureophoroi in a pinch... not bad for the cheapest Indo-Greek unit! Indian Longbowman and Infantry guild warriors are also amazing regionals...

Equites Campanici - Campanian Cavalry, not bad for western regional cavalry. I certainly expected them to be garbage, not even equal to the successor cavalry. Actually they are a decent light cav, and my units of them tend to maintain their combat effectiveness (less than 50% casualties) through multiple battles. They have a weak charge, but are a good melee unit...

Indo-Iranian light cavalry - wow... a "light Cavalry" with a charge value of 32, and a melee value of 9. Plus they have high morale... These guys are the best light cavalry in the game... Just imagine what they could do if you got them out west...

Subeshi Archers - the infantry general's answer to those pesky horse archers. Seriously, they outrange HA's and have a high lethality, plus they are cheap and available from a level 1 regional barracks.... just make sure that they stand behind some spear men.

Peltastai - ummm.... I am embarrassed to say that i never really used these guys to their full potential. In all of my campaigns, I thought that they were basically useless, and irrelevant to the battle line. Only after reading about how great they are in other people's campaigns did I ever try to use them. Now I am a believer. For me, these are surprisingly good units - easily the equal of the archer-spearmen of the east.

[QuintusSertorius]

Peltastai - ummm.... I am embarrassed to say that i never really used these guys to their full potential. In all of my campaigns, I thought that they were basically useless, and irrelevant to the battle line. Only after reading about how great they are in other people's campaigns did I ever try to use them. Now I am a believer. For me, these are surprisingly good units - easily the equal of the archer-spearmen of the east.

It's their armour, the lethality of their sword and their stamina. It's a pretty lethal combination, especially because swordsmen are automatically 4 points of attack up on spearmen.

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm musing over whether these guys qualify:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/anatolia/rebel_uazali_merc.gif

Uazali are in a similar spot to Peltastai - medium infantry who can duke it out even with heavier ones for a time. Great flankers, though not as versatile as the aforementioned skirmishers.

[Mediolanicus]

I'm musing over whether these guys qualify:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/anatolia/rebel_uazali_merc.gif

Uazali are in a similar spot to Peltastai - medium infantry who can duke it out even with heavier ones for a time. Great flankers, though not as versatile as the aforementioned skirmishers.

...and not easily retrained if you take them away from Karia.

They are good light infantry, but always take heavy casualties in my armies.
If I use a few units of them in an army outside Asia Minor, then after three battles or so I only have half a unit left. And then I replace them by Peltastai.

[QuintusSertorius]

Not easily retrained (I don't anyway), but available more widely in a merc variant anyway.

[Mediolanicus]

Good point.

What about morale? I find them a bit more prone to rout than my Peltastai.

[QuintusSertorius]

Good point.

What about morale? I find them a bit more prone to rout than my Peltastai.

According to the unit cards, they're the same on morale. Basically Uazali have less javelins (3 compared to Peltastai's 6), but higher attack (by 1 point) and defense (by 1 point). Otherwise they're broadly the same.

[Mediolanicus]

How about this one?

I'm using them in my Romani campaign as medium assault infantry. However, due to their axes they are uncapable of holding the line. If I can use them to their full potential they can kill around 200 enemies while taking less than 50 casualties themselves.


Tekastos (Rhaetic Axemen)
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/alps/rebel_tekastos.gif

[Olaf The Great]

How about this one?

I'm using them in my Romani campaign as medium assault infantry. However, due to their axes they are uncapable of holding the line. If I can use them to their full potential they can kill around 200 enemies while taking less than 50 casualties themselves.


Tekastos (Rhaetic Axemen)
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/alps/rebel_tekastos.gif
The Alpine Iphrikates Hoplites have axes as their secondary weapon, so use them as line troops and Teskatos as flankers


They are awesome btw.

[Ibrahim]

Iphicratean hopites are uderrated IMO; they are more flexible than a classical phalanx, they're more cohesive, and make for good melee fighters, should the phalanx break. all in all, excellent unit, yet rarely mentioned by many a player in greece.:shame:

also, camilan Hastati are underrated; true, morale, stats and otherwise are mediocre, but they make great frontline troops, tiring the enemy, so that their superiors can finish them off.

[Olaf The Great]

Iphicratean hopites are uderrated IMO; they are more flexible than a classical phalanx, they're more cohesive, and make for good melee fighters, should the phalanx break. all in all, excellent unit, yet rarely mentioned by many a player in greece.:shame:

also, camilan Hastati are underrated; true, morale, stats and otherwise are mediocre, but they make great frontline troops, tiring the enemy, so that their superiors can finish them off.
Yeah I had a very good experience with a mercenary unit of Iphricatean Hoplites as Hayasdan, along with a unit of Thessalians. Made a very good minature version of Hammer and anvil that worked very well.

There are many varieties of them too...

Normals..
Mail armoured
Mail armoured elites(Ptolemies)
Indogreek..
Alpine...
Helvetii..
Getai Light
Getai Heavy :P

..Is that it?

[Zarax]

Iphicrateans are good but imho I preferred them in 1.0 as they were a quite flexible phalanx (gotta love the getai and helvetii versions).

[Che Roriniho]

How about this one?

I'm using them in my Romani campaign as medium assault infantry. However, due to their axes they are uncapable of holding the line. If I can use them to their full potential they can kill around 200 enemies while taking less than 50 casualties themselves.


Tekastos (Rhaetic Axemen)
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/alps/rebel_tekastos.gif

They are really very very good. to date the only unit that as been able to rout an Epirote Elite Phalanx. On their own. In a FRONTAL assault. (I HATE those frigging EEP's... Hate 'em)

[Tartaros]

https://img530.imageshack.us/img530/959/greekinfantryepikletoihqy7.jpg
first in my current greekgame, i just want to test them how they fight without phalanx (many peopel think that there´re useless now), but i was really surprised how good they perform with the sword in hand to hand battle (the performance was even better than thorakitai or normal hoplitai). they kill most of the macedon elites very soon.
i do most of the hard jobs with them and they never break or let me down. they are very flexible (sword/spear) and grizzled.
with the sword they fight similar like heavy scutarii or marian legions, so that really surprised me.

[fenix3279]

I've always had good luck with Massaliotai Hoplitai

https://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/phoenix3279/rebel_massiloi_hoplitai.gif

Not once do I recall these guys routing despite taking heavy losses. They hold the line every time. Look pretty good too.

[kambiz]

Both Tabargane Eranshahr

https://i34.tinypic.com/n2fxgg.jpg

And Kofyaren-i Verkhana

https://i33.tinypic.com/99lzwo.jpg

really surprised me in my current Baktrian campaign. They are lightly armoured and thus are cheap ,but are tough fighters and very good flankers. I have destroyed many of Selukids Phalanx armies with purely iranian armies (many times outnumbered) and these guys always saved me :smiley: I suggest you to try them ,They won't disappoint you :wink:

[Tristrem]

I don't have pictures for them, but i have two units that i have found to be surprisingly good. They are the Asya Badarai (Saka Heavy Cavalry), and the Aspet Hetselazor (Armenian Medium Cavalry), and they are just simply awesome. They have a great charge, and those axes really make mince-meat out of any armored unit, cav, or infantry. After the horse archers tire the enemy out, charge these guys in and the carnage begins. They are also good because these two factions are on quite a tight budget early on, and this unit can fill multiple roles on the cheap, armor piercing cav, and psuedo heavy cav without the usual heavy armor found in eastern armies.

Anyone else agree with me?

[ibleedgrenchese]

How are we bashing the Phalanx, my elite phalanx has taken countless battles from all the factions. Use the hammer technique from Makedonia and its automatic victory for me, every time. If you want to degrade the Phalanx with your useless banter you better look elsewhere, or else my Phalanx is going to come for you and everybody you know. My Phalanx has no heart and it cannot disseminate between good and evil, right and wrong, or innocent and guilty. It only has one mission objective and that is to kill without mercy. So be forewarned or you shall fall victim to my omnipotent Phalanx system. Watch out for snakes.

Check out my AAR on the Makedonia Spartan league based off the campaign
"Take of a Makedonia Spartan" (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176241)

[Fondor_Yards]

Eh? No one said pikes were bad.

[Disciple of Tacitus]

Putting in my two bits for the Iberian Medium Spearman. Can hold the line, recieve a cav charge, stand toe-to-toe with the Principes, encircle phalanxes AND "Fast Moving". For me, they are the perfect combination of tough and fast.

A related question however, how does one get those nifty pics that you all are posting, I should like to accumulate my favorite troops into a folder and make that my screen saver folder - oh yeah.

A sidenote, a heavy emphasis on Eastern Factions in this thread. I am assuming that this is merely a reflection of most people's preferences to play "out East". I admit, I love me some barbarian factions, but the inability to fully "develop" my civilization always causes me to return to the "civilized" factions. Thus, I will often play a fringe barbarian faction, frustration will set in, and my next campaign is inevitably a center faction. Just a sidenote.

[Fondor_Yards]

For the pics I just go the that faction's page in the EB site, look for the unit/unit pic there, and copy it's location.

[abou]

Cataphract elephants: I don't care how much they cost; any unit that can take on 600+ men and win rock in my book.

[Tiberius Aurelius Cotta]

what faction are they for???

[Swordmaster]

what faction are they for???

IIRC, it's Seleukids, Ptolemaioi, Baktria, and Saka.

EDIT: It seems the Seleukids are the only ones able to recruit them in the Mediterranean area (Antioch).

[The Persian Cataphract]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/baktria/baktria_bactrian_kambojas.gif

The Kambojans (Indo-Iranian light cavalry) can not be praised enough. These guys kick aaaaaaaaaaass! They are quick, and their value as "Eastern Prodromoi" is a sure winner. Here are a few others who take the bill as well:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/baktria/bak_baktrioi_hippeis.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/pahlava/pah_mada_asabara.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/saka/saka_lancers.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/sauromatae/sau_rauxsa_alanna_baex.gif

They are bang for the buck. Now, I consider the Bactrian Hippeis to actually be extra-heavy cavalry due to the added barding, but their field of use is of such similar nature, I must excuse myself. The two last ones are the Steppe Hell's Angels as I call them. If I play as Saka, I make sure to at least have 25% of these guys formed up for one gigantic charge, after the horse-archers have finished with loosening up the enemy, and "closing the sphere" with horse-archers enveloping for butchery.

Celtic factions should consider themselves lucky for not having to face nomads early.

[konny]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/belgae/belgae_infantry_milnaht.gif

With 462 upkeep and only level 3 barracks needed, absolutly not elites - but fight like devils. In every assault on a city I used these in my Casse campaign they get out with about 1:10 kills against mediocre enemies like spearmen (the record was some 450 killed enemies in one battle, by one unit of Milnaht of course), and still use to win against better units like Botroas or even Druids.


https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/casse/casse_kluddobro.gif

Another must-have in early Casse armies. They die like flies under missle fire and won't survive against regular swordfighters, but are able to kill lots of (much more expensive) spearmen like Cemmeinarn.

[cmacq]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/romani/roman_camillan_rorarii.gif
The rorarii might be discarded as crappy garrison units, but think again!

Very underrated. As the role of the actual Rorarii remains somewhat unclear, and at the scale EB is played, I view this unit type as a form of Italic auxiliary or allied light infantry. Rorarii units along with the Accensi, which I also view as auxiliaries, typically make up about half (in the number of men) or more, of my pre-Polybian armies. That’s unless I use Hoplitai units as auxiliaries. Actually, all three units are very useful as part of a combined arms team. Individually, not so much. I never use them for garrisons because of the cost.

[Socy]

Yet again no pictures (Actually, I'll sneak in a question here, how do you upload them anyway? :clown:) but:

Kavakaza Sparabara - Caucasian Spearmen

Hai Nizagamartik - Armenian Spearmen

Kovkasi Lernain Netadzik - Caucasian Archers

Neither of these units have ever disappointed me in my Hayasdan campaigns (Early game that is) and I've been able to conquer the entire Caucasus-region (The city where Hayasdan and the nearby settlements, 5-8 something, not sure and dont have EB available for checking) with armies consisting only of Kavakaza Sparabara and Kovkasi Lernain Netadzik in my early games (And family members, wich.. Might be tad bit better in terms of quality.). The Kavakaza are really good considering their price, same goes for the Kovkasi, in my oppinion In all my Macedonian/Seleucid games I also make sure to hire some Caucasian archers, I just think they are plain awesome :smash:.

[QuintusSertorius]

Yet again no pictures (Actually, I'll sneak in a question here, how do you upload them anyway? :clown:)

Go onto the EB website, and browse the unit rosters for the factions. If you can't find it there, chances are it's in the Eleutheroi roster.

[Chirurgeon]

Putting in my two bits for the Iberian Medium Spearman. Can hold the line, recieve a cav charge, stand toe-to-toe with the Principes, encircle phalanxes AND "Fast Moving". For me, they are the perfect combination of tough and fast.

A related question however, how does one get those nifty pics that you all are posting, I should like to accumulate my favorite troops into a folder and make that my screen saver folder - oh yeah.

A sidenote, a heavy emphasis on Eastern Factions in this thread. I am assuming that this is merely a reflection of most people's preferences to play "out East". I admit, I love me some barbarian factions, but the inability to fully "develop" my civilization always causes me to return to the "civilized" factions. Thus, I will often play a fringe barbarian faction, frustration will set in, and my next campaign is inevitably a center faction. Just a sidenote.

In my Lusotannan AAR the medium spearmen are my mainline troops. They hold up to most anything long enough that I can either withdraw them after taking a beating or try to flank with lighter infantry. I have been very impressed with their performance! Very durable troops with good morale

[Spizania]

This is probably a partial thread hijack, but what would you say was the best foot archer unit available to the Seleukids in the Eastern half of the map?

[The Persian Cataphract]

Depends on. If you want a robust foot-archer unit, then the Heavy Persian archers. If you want something to kill off horse-archers with, then the Iranian archer-spearmen. If you want range, then go for Subeshi archers. If you look down south, you'll also find the Indian longbows too and they are able to deal a beating in melee.

[Tellos Athenaios]

If you want to kill off horse archers I'd still go for the Subeshi. I've seen what those guys do in a melee to Kamboja cavalry (capable medium melee cavalry) and let's just say it's not pretty. <_<

[jhhowell]

I favor the basic Persian Archers, personally. Longer range than the archer-spearmen, slightly cheaper, and available in a level 1 MIC rather than level 2. And they have a huge recruitment zone, unlike the Subeshis (who are quite good if you can get them, granted). As I've argued elsewhere, if your archers are in melee, you've screwed up. ~:) So I only ever use archer-spearmen in tiny second or third string armies, mostly rebel-quashing or as the garrison of a rebel-prevention fort.

Mardian archers are also quite good, though not very widespread.

[Havok.]

https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/AmonAmarth16/sau_skuda_fat_aexsdzhytae.gif
They are.......a.killing machines.... :inquisitive:

all hail to the Skuda Fat Aexsdzhytae !

HAIL!

[teh1337tim]

"Crap why arent those phalanxes dieing omg!"
"thats becuz ur hitting them head on with missles!"
"go gogog Skuda Fat Aexsdzhytae go hit them in da back"
"roger"
"wth why no effect.... nvm run!"

thats basicly wat happens 2 me but are quite cheap n effective HA non the less

[Fondor_Yards]

HA aren't really a surprisingly good unit, since everyone knows human controlled HA will rape anything and everything the AI can send at you.

[schlappi]

I love the illyrian spearmen (Illyrioi Thureophoroi), they are my most trusted auxiliary infantry!

(wearing funny helmets too)

[Spizania]

Well it appears that the Indians will be out of reach, since the Baktrians have an army moving to take that Coastal Indian settlement and my sea expedition hasnt even left Charax yet.
And I cant get to Subeshi Archers without routing a horde of horse archers, which would negate my need for them :no:

[Havok.]

HA aren't really a surprisingly good unit, since everyone knows human controlled HA will rape anything and everything the AI can send at you.

indeed that is true :yes:

[Che Roriniho]

Indian Longbowmen. Utterly FANTASTIC garrison force. long range bows, plus can, with relative ease, destroy any wall-bound phalangities. was assaulting Gandahara on my Baktrian campaign, and they utterly destroyed 4 phalanxes, and 2 spearmen, AND they were under heavy HA fire for the majority of the time. their losses? about 70 men. just incredible.

[Havok.]

https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/AmonAmarth16/getai_komatai.gif

Another unit that i consider to be very effective when properly employed :beam:
Cheap, fast, easy to replace, can harass the enemy, can fight for a while on melee combat, enough time to you send heavier units to finish your foe off, and they're also great ambushers (Yes, i do use ambushes....a lot)

:2thumbsup:

[Che Roriniho]

For all these units, can people please put thew names on the pics, so we know what they are. Thanks muchly!

[Havok.]

https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/AmonAmarth16/getai_komatai.gif

Another unit that i consider to be very effective when properly employed :beam:
Cheap, fast, easy to replace, can harass the enemy, can fight for a while on melee combat, enough time to you send heavier units to finish your foe off, and they're also great ambushers (Yes, i do use ambushes....a lot)

:2thumbsup:

Komatai (Dacian Skirmishers)
''The Komatai, also called 'daoi' or 'wolves,' make up the bulk of the tribal forces of the Getai. Untamed warriors, they are still capable of versatile maneuvers on the battlefield. They fight bare-headed to assure the gods of their fervor and willingness to arrive at their side. The Komatai go to battle wearing studded leather armor, baggy trousers and a large oval shield. They also carry with them javelins and a sica. They are best used as skirmishers for hit-and-run tactics and can be deadly in forests. If forced into melee they can hold their own against other light and even some medium infantry.''

[Dumbass]

I really hate Peltastai, they can't hold their own in melee at all. Hoplitai Haploi though, that's another question. They guys are dirt cheap and can hold a defensive line and wear down much superior enemies for ages.

[QuintusSertorius]

I really hate Peltastai, they can't hold their own in melee at all.

I really do have to wonder what you're doing with them. Sure you can't put them in the centre of a line, but I find them every bit as durable as (Polybian) hastati or Bruttian infantry.

[||Lz3||]

I really do have to wonder what you're doing with them. Sure you can't put them in the centre of a line, but I find them every bit as durable as (Polybian) hastati or Bruttian infantry.



then my peltestai hate me... (as much as I dislike them) honestly I have waaaay better experiences using roman leves, today they lasted nearly as much as my polybian hastati and they were in the middle of the battle line fighting against phalanxes

[Dumbass]

I had a silver chevron unit of peltastai in iberia which was fighting one on one with some scortmavelue. They really quickly got torn apart with the iberians left with a lot of their unit intact. Also considering that my general was 9 command and 10 influence, they would have had +9 attack/defense bonuses.

[QuintusSertorius]

General's command stars add to morale and defense. Not attack.

[Justinian II]

then my peltestai hate me... (as much as I dislike them) honestly I have waaaay better experiences using roman leves, today they lasted nearly as much as my polybian hastati and they were in the middle of the battle line fighting against phalanxes

Make sure also to take them off skirmish mode. I find that helps a bit. And make sure they're close together, not spaced rediculously far apart. I have pretty good results with them that way,and I try to keep two in each of my field armies. They're basically jack-of-all-trades, for me.

[satalexton]

peltasts are the ultimate grunt infrantry of the ancient world. If you're failing with them, that means you're not using them properly. I have 4 units of them with 6 exp in my army, standing next to my galatian kolurochoi on the right of my phalanxes, they can pretty much rip anything...ANYTHING apart. They gain exp pretty fast too, and they're easily found in pretty much every settlement, merge them after every 2 battles or so and u'll see the chevs stack up.

I bet you, an "imitation legion" made up of peltasts and thorakitai will pwn a polybian legion hands down.

[Havok.]

I bet you, an "imitation legion" made up of peltasts and thorakitai will pwn a polybian legion hands down.

Betting on that isn't that much, you know, i'm pretty sure everyone in here knows how petalsts can be deadly if properly used, specially a legion of them



~:thumb:

[Dumbass]

So if they cannot take on an average enemy one to one without taking huge losses, how else are to meant to use them? Back up with normal units? Hardly makes them killing machines does it. They are only good for use in the second line so that they can pepper the enemy with shitloads of javelins, since they carry 6.

[||Lz3||]

I'll crush your peltestai with my recently added polybian italic allies! :pirate2:

perhaps I'll try them again... but seriously...I think I have better allies for my roman armies , the lucanian are awesome btw

[QuintusSertorius]

So if they cannot take on an average enemy one to one without taking huge losses, how else are to meant to use them? Back up with normal units? Hardly makes them killing machines does it. They are only good for use in the second line so that they can pepper the enemy with shitloads of javelins, since they carry 6.

It's not rocket science. Skirmish mode to begin with while they fight ahead of your line and pelt the enemy with javelins. When they're out of ammo, you bring them back behind your line and walk them to one wing or the other. Then march them around the engaged enemy and let them have at the flanks and rear. When the enemy rout, they'll still have energy enough to chase them down.

They have stats equal to most medium infantry, especially if you get them into a smithy and a chevron or two of experience on them. They also fight at the right density to hold enemy line troops too.

[Havok.]

It's not rocket science. Skirmish mode to begin with while they fight ahead of your line and pelt the enemy with javelins. When they're out of ammo, you bring them back behind your line and walk them to one wing or the other. Then march them around the engaged enemy and let them have at the flanks and rear. When the enemy rout, they'll still have energy enough to chase them down.

They have stats equal to most medium infantry, especially if you get them into a smithy and a chevron or two of experience on them. They also fight at the right density to hold enemy line troops too.

and the killing rate of their javelins is a true battle-winner, even against overwhelming odds

[Che Roriniho]

I had a go with vanilla RTW yesterday, just to see how it did. I gave up when my Mercenary Peltasts Threew over 15 Javs, and still had more to throw.

[QuintusSertorius]

I had a go with vanilla RTW yesterday, just to see how it did. I gave up when my Mercenary Peltasts Threew over 15 Javs, and still had more to throw.

Maybe they had an invisible camel train bringing them extra javelins? :laugh4:

[mlc82]

It's not rocket science. Skirmish mode to begin with while they fight ahead of your line and pelt the enemy with javelins. When they're out of ammo, you bring them back behind your line and walk them to one wing or the other. Then march them around the engaged enemy and let them have at the flanks and rear. When the enemy rout, they'll still have energy enough to chase them down.

They have stats equal to most medium infantry, especially if you get them into a smithy and a chevron or two of experience on them. They also fight at the right density to hold enemy line troops too.

This is the perfect way to use them, and peltasts can be hellishly effective closing in on the flanks/rear of unarmored enemies. Those guys saved the day for me quite a few times in my recently fun but doomed (thanks to the awesome Alex.exe) Koinon Hellenon campaign.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Peltastai has been quite a suprise for me, I considered them not worth the trouble for quite a while. I was wrong.

Another positibe suprise was the Illyrian cavalry. Very cheap, but with those axes they have been amasing flankers and even better at taking care of those hetairoi bodyguards.

[QuintusSertorius]

Peltastai has been quite a suprise for me, I considered them not worth the trouble for quite a while. I was wrong.

Another positibe suprise was the Illyrian cavalry. Very cheap, but with those axes they have been amasing flankers and even better at taking care of those hetairoi bodyguards.

Yep, with AP lances Illyrians are also brilliant at the shock charge into engaged (and tired) enemy infantry.

[Hax]

I have used Illyrian cavalry a lot in my special Galatian army.

[QuintusSertorius]

I have used Illyrian cavalry a lot in my special Galatian army.

Not Curepos? They're almost as effective, given they've got the same lances, though no axes. Better armour, though.

[Satyros]

Skuda Tabari : they're cheap , have axes , and look grim which is always a cool thing.

Well the same goes for half the Sweboz roster , or is it the forest that makes me feel so ?

Grim frostbitten kingdoms . Ah....

Satyros

[Tollheit]

I had a go with vanilla RTW yesterday, just to see how it did. I gave up when my Mercenary Peltasts Threew over 15 Javs, and still had more to throw.

Now, that's not fair to vanilla.
Vanilla peltasts have 6 Javelins each, exactly the same amount as EB 1.1 peltasts!
You probably had most of the peltasts out of range, or the enemy moved out of range => animation triggered, but few or no javelins were thrown with some animations.
Same with big buildings between ranged attackers and target.

[VladiNemir]

Peltastai !!!Killers,10/10,they're a nightmare when you're attacking walls and through out the fight on the walls,they have awesome stamina and wear out even the most elite units as hypaspistai or basilikon agema while staying winded and even fresh ..i couldn't believe my eyes(of course i choped them to pieces,but they took down 25-30 of mine and it lasted like for eons-amazing really).Playing with Hellenistic civ., they're simply a must have.

[Theodotos I]

Maure Infantry: Much like Peltastai, but with a long sword. They will chop through every other skirmisher out there, including everything Lusotannan has to offer. Very neat stuff.

[Roka]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/romani/roman_camillan_rorarii.gif

The rorarii might be discarded as crappy garrison units, but think again! The huge stack of javelins gives these guy an advantage to similar units, and because of the close formation, they can actually hold down enemies while you send in the flankers. Before the polybian reforms, the rorarii is great!


i agree completely, i used them at first as a reserve in the battle for Taras in my current Romani campaign and they won the day :2thumbsup:

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Illyrioi Hippeis

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/epeiros/epi_illyrioihippeis.gif

I've used them as Auxiliaries while in my Iberian Campaign, and they are excellent Light Cavalry. A very useful auxiliary addition.

[strategos roma]

Cretan archers, they're probably the best archers in the game. Dahae riders,they cost a great deal of damage when I was playing as AS. Oh, and indo-iranian light horse. Way better than anything else in their region. Also loved the iberian light infantry, solid, reliable and cheap. Once used an army of them to crush a roman legion.

[Dumbass]

Those armoured bosphorian archers are pretty damned good. Very long range and can also act as light infantry. If you want dirt cheap brilliant archers, then those skuda guys in the steppes with red coats are the best.

[Tollheit]

Cretan archers, they're probably the best archers in the game.

Seriously, these guys outrange every other archer (except for Saka foot archers, who have lower ammo), and excel in every other discipline, to boot.
Given Xenophon's account, I would have expected a somewhat more mediocre range.

Another great archer is the Baltic Medininkas. While no match for true elite archers, he is miles above his Germanic and Celtic neighbours.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/baltic/baltic_medininkas.gif

[machinor]

I like the Eastern Axemen a lot; use them quite frequently in my current Baktrian Campaign. Quite cheap and superb flankers with high stamina, javelins and axes!! And on top of that they look awsomely fierce. :D

[Rodrico Stak]

I think some of these have been mentioned before, but there's no harm in mentioning them again:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/koinon-hellenon/kh_taxeis_hoplitai.gif
Hoplitai Haploi (Greek Levy Hoplites): These guys are great. I couldn't have done nearly so well in my Romani campaign without having them to garrison my Greek conquests (since Romans cannot be recruited there until the Marian reforms). Its especially good that they're solid fighters too, and with the phalanx mod they're even better. :2thumbsup:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/koinon-hellenon/kh_cretan_archers.gif
Toxotai Kretikoi (Cretan Archers): 3 units of the mercenary version of these guys killed off all of the Epirote light units in a large battle I had with them as the Romani. I originally hired them thinking that they'd be just a bit better than the Toxotai I was fielding before, but their usefulness surprised me.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/belgae/belgae_infantry_milnaht.gif
Milnaht (Belgae Swordsmen): Once I got access to them as the Casse I used them as regular heavy infantry. However when they defeated an entire unit of Lugoae without taking a single casualty I realized just how good they were. (Ironically they then took 1 casualty when my archers fired at the routing Lugoae :oops:)

[Dutchhoplite]

These guys were the backbone of the Seleucid armies that finally crushed the Pahlava :beam:
Not very special seperate but quite strong when put together ;)

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/arche-seleukeia/seleukid_thanvare_pay.gif

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/arche-seleukeia/seleukid_pantodapoi_phalangitai.gif

[Thermal]

ive not played a great deal of factions on it yet, but the levy-phangolists (or however you spell it!)
are tough, they can take a lot of punishment 4 levies and are cheap, longs there flanks covered of course, talking about tough them mad naked fanatics are near invincible, also i find the samnite spearmen are handy to, again tough units, easily able to deplete any beginner units, and there also cheap

[gamegeek2]

Yeah, all the greek units that cost around 1300 are excellent. I have to agree with the Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai pick for #1.

Also, I couldn't get an image, but the Cordinau Orca. Even though they're expensive, they're a great deal, and barely ever lose ANY fight with infantry or non-charging cavalry.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/arche-seleukeia/seleukid_eranshar_arsht.gif - Are a double-duty weapon against the Parthians and their nomadic buddies. Kill the horse archers both in melee and at range. Like their standard Persian Archer counterparts, great with levy phalanx.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/arche-seleukeia/seleukid_syrian_archers.gif - The Cretans' armoured Eastern counterpart. Just great all-around guys in your army, and, if moved to the east to fight the nomads, are simply AMAZING.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/arche-seleukeia/seleukid_thureophoroi.gif - Cost-efficient Greek dudes who can take javelins and throw them right back. They beat most everything that costs the same (except hoplites) and are just great utility guys to have around, even when you have Thorakitai.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/arche-seleukeia/seleukid_thorakitai.gif - Just as cost-efficient as its lighter counterpart, it takes on most things its cost and wins handily. Also virtually impervious to most missiles from the front.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/sauromatae/sau_skuda_baexdzhyn.gif - Yeah. Available as an excellent mercenary and as cheap but highly effective multi-purpose cavalry around the Pontic steppe north of the Black sea and to the west in Skythia Minor.

[Ravenfeeder]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/pontos/pontos_anatolian_hillmen.gif
Ok so no precursor missile and lousy defence, but they are cheap and there's lots of them. Once pinned to the front by the Chalk Spiders these guys absolutely mince KH bodyguards and Spartans - that armour piercing axe is great!

[machinor]

Yeah, gotta love Eastern infantry. Die like flies but are cheap and come in nice big formations and with a handy armor-pierching axe. Eastern Axemen are even better because of their javelins.

[Codyos Vladimiros]

Yeah, gotta love Eastern infantry. Die like flies but are cheap and come in nice big formations and with a handy armor-pierching axe. Eastern Axemen are even better because of their javelins.

They really remind me of the Ghazi infantry of MTW1. I use them the same way, mostly as flankers. They're like antimatter-they annihilate both themselves and the enemy forces.

[machinor]

Hahaha! Great comparison! :D Yeah it's true, now that you mention it, they really are similar to Ghazi infantry.

[strategos roma]

Thessalian heavy horse are good if you can't get heavy calvary yourself.

Southern gallic swordsman are cost-efficient and are quite steady.

Curepos are great foe chasing down routers but don't use them for melee.

Caucasian spearman are cheap but steady. Crushed Pontos with these.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Thessalian heavy horse are good if you can't get heavy calvary yourself.
Thessalians are superb. :2thumbsup: :grin:

[NickTheGreek]

Yeah I'll third the Thessalians they are excellent. Even when i could recruit Hetairoi i still used Thessalians in abundance

[teh1337tim]

haa same, usually i use them on my left with thraiken light calv /prodimo and my hetairoi/lonchrophia at the right flank with my FM or general.
left attack there flank or calv while my hetairoi and loncho will strike at there calv/fm then roll up the lin and smash theM!!!

hetairoi to break formation and kill then loncho right after to break again and kill but also go in melee (they have an aspis and kopis!!!) and rest my hetaroi then rinse and repeat up the line !!=insta win:smash:

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

haa same, usually i use them on my left with thraiken light calv /prodimo and my hetairoi/lonchrophia at the right flank with my FM or general.
left attack there flank or calv while my hetairoi and loncho will strike at there calv/fm then roll up the lin and smash theM!!!

hetairoi to break formation and kill then loncho right after to break again and kill but also go in melee (they have an aspis and kopis!!!) and rest my hetaroi then rinse and repeat up the line !!=insta win:smash:
Hetairoi, Thessalians and Lonchophoroi all have an AP-Kopis as secondary weapon, as opposed to Prodromoi.

[teh1337tim]

i know that :P hence i said aspis and kopis!! shield n sword = insta melee calv!!! xD

[Celtic_Punk]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/british_isles/goidilic_laecha.gif
Cladaca (Goidilic Light Infantry)-
When I did my Casse Migration to Northern Ireland (my place of birth :ireland: WOO!) These were pretty much my vanguard. They'll hold their own against pretty much anything the isles can throw at you. I didn't get to fight much of other cultures before the savefile was corrupted but i was very impressed. They are good skirmishers like most celt units and with their swords they are more than capable in close combat.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/british_isles/goidilic_ordmhornaght.gif
Ordmalica (Goidilic Shock Infantry)-
When Mark Hamil said to Jason Mewes in Jay n Silent Bob Strike back "don't fuck with the jedi master, son" I'm pretty sure he meant these guys. They will mess you up. Two handed axes are not something you wanna screw around with, they will chew a hole through the enemy's battleline like a hungry wolf in a room full of chickens.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/british_isles/rebel_balroae.gif
Balroae (Caledonian Skirmishers)-
There's nothing a vicious Scotsman hyped up on amphetamines and hammered like your uncle can't do. Even though their primarily skirmishers, dont let that discourage you from letting them at the Romans legions. There was a reason Rome never went to Scotland. They scared them so much they built a wall and we're more than content at letting us Gaels kill ourselves then to be eaten alive by drunken naked Irishmen. :evilgrin:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/koinon-hellenon/kh_peltastai.gif
Peltastai (Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers)-
If your phalanx (classical or Makedonian) is failing, you need to plug a hole, or you just want to utterly crush the enemy with a decisive flanking manoeuvre, these guys are the men for the job. Making critical flanks are in their job description.(literally) they however are not supposed to hold the line. but they can! I have been well aquainted with fighting in cities, and when im forcing my way to the square, there are two units i cannot do without- Classical Hoplites and Peltastai. While i cycle my Hoplites out of the fight to rest, someone needs to take up the fight, and these guys can hold the line long enough for my men to rest up and cycle back in. dependable and cheap unit!

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/baktria/bak_baktrian_early_bg.gif
Somatophylakes Strategou (Baktrian Early Bodyguard)-
Yes yes yes, this is a SURPRISINGLY good units thread, but I've never been so impressed by a bodyguard unit. Even the Spartan bodyguards can falter. But these guys have never failed me. and if they do break, at least the enemy regrets engaging them. I have no problem racking up 350+ kills without losing more than 20! They suck up Persian arrows like a fatkid on cake, and come back out the otherside with the heads of them to prove it! If there's one thing I know... It's a bad day to be a Persian!

Thats the best of the cheap that have surprised me.
The best units I've encountered come from the Isles. and haven't even used their entire roster! the Goillic Cavalry is also a force to be reckoned with.

[Che Roriniho]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/british_isles/goidilic_laecha.gif
Cladaca (Goidilic Light Infantry)-
When I did my Casse Migration to Northern Ireland (my place of birth :ireland: WOO!) These were pretty much my vanguard. They'll hold their own against pretty much anything the isles can throw at you. I didn't get to fight much of other cultures before the savefile was corrupted but i was very impressed. They are good skirmishers like most celt units and with their swords they are more than capable in close combat.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/british_isles/goidilic_ordmhornaght.gif
Ordmalica (Goidilic Shock Infantry)-
When Mark Hamil said to Jason Mewes in Jay n Silent Bob Strike back "don't fuck with the jedi master, son" I'm pretty sure he meant these guys. They will mess you up. Two handed axes are not something you wanna screw around with, they will chew a hole through the enemy's battleline like a hungry wolf in a room full of chickens.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/british_isles/rebel_balroae.gif
Balroae (Caledonian Skirmishers)-
There's nothing a vicious Scotsman hyped up on amphetamines and hammered like your uncle can't do. Even though their primarily skirmishers, dont let that discourage you from letting them at the Romans legions. There was a reason Rome never went to Scotland. They scared them so much they built a wall and we're more than content at letting us Gaels kill ourselves then to be eaten alive by drunken naked Irishmen. :evilgrin:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/koinon-hellenon/kh_peltastai.gif
Peltastai (Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers)-
If your phalanx (classical or Makedonian) is failing, you need to plug a hole, or you just want to utterly crush the enemy with a decisive flanking manoeuvre, these guys are the men for the job. Making critical flanks are in their job description.(literally) they however are not supposed to hold the line. but they can! I have been well aquainted with fighting in cities, and when im forcing my way to the square, there are two units i cannot do without- Classical Hoplites and Peltastai. While i cycle my Hoplites out of the fight to rest, someone needs to take up the fight, and these guys can hold the line long enough for my men to rest up and cycle back in. dependable and cheap unit!

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/baktria/bak_baktrian_early_bg.gif
Somatophylakes Strategou (Baktrian Early Bodyguard)-
Yes yes yes, this is a SURPRISINGLY good units thread, but I've never been so impressed by a bodyguard unit. Even the Spartan bodyguards can falter. But these guys have never failed me. and if they do break, at least the enemy regrets engaging them. I have no problem racking up 350+ kills without losing more than 20! They suck up Persian arrows like a fatkid on cake, and come back out the otherside with the heads of them to prove it! If there's one thing I know... It's a bad day to be a Persian!

Thats the best of the cheap that have surprised me.
The best units I've encountered come from the Isles. and haven't even used their entire roster! the Goillic Cavalry is also a force to be reckoned with.

Jesus. Goes to show how much I need to play as Casse at some point, and possibly how much a Goidilic faction in EBII (hint, hint)

[Celtic_Punk]

throw em in the Roman checkerboard formation and your unstoppable! lmao

[SwissBarbar]

Machimoi (Native Egyptian Infantry)


https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/ptolemaioi/ptol_machimoi.gif



These Units did really surprise me. I play with Carthage and try to conquer the Ptolemies. The Machimois are besides the Toxotai, Akontistai and the Native Hellenic Spearmen the only units i can build there at the moment.

I really am surprised how they can stand their ground defending a city when supported by city-towers, even against heavy enemy forces and when outnumberd.

[Master Young Phoenix]

I'm very impressed by the performance of Swebozi Jugunthiz. They're a great 1st wave of troops to send at the enemy. They hold out quite well in combat, but send in the Slagonez and Gaizoz Frijotes to back them up. In my current campaign they've made the greatest contributions to the conquest of the rebel tribes and i've used them quite offensively.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/sweboz/sweboz_jugunthiz.gif

[HasdrubalBarca]

Machimoi (Native Egyptian Infantry)


https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/units/ptolemaioi/ptol_machimoi.gif



These Units did really surprise me. I play with Carthage and try to conquer the Ptolemies. The Machimois are besides the Toxotai, Akontistai and the Native Hellenic Spearmen the only units i can build there at the moment.

I really am surprised how they can stand their ground defending a city when supported by city-towers, even against heavy enemy forces and when outnumberd.

agreed

the gallic Naked Spearmen are almost overpowered in the hands of the player when playing vs even the romans the morale effect they have has won me so many battles in my Aedui campaign