Vices and Virtues [Archive]

Matrim

07-07-2008, 07:04

I've recently run into several vices and virtues I have never seen before, or have seen so rarely that I don't remember them in particular.

Is there a full list of vices/virtues? Is there also a list of certain causes? (I ask this 2nd part, because I tried to bribe an army, met the desired amount, and somehow the general was insulted and killed the emissary. He had -20% bribe at first, and after that he had +50% bribe, as well. Odd, no?)

Anyway, I'm just curious as to what all I've been missing, and all that. Any know of something like that?

Martok

07-07-2008, 18:50

I've recently run into several vices and virtues I have never seen before, or have seen so rarely that I don't remember them in particular.

Is there a full list of vices/virtues?
I believe this (http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/sreply/16203/t/Medieval-TotalWar-Numerology.html) may be what you're looking for. ~:)

Is there also a list of certain causes? (I ask this 2nd part, because I tried to bribe an army, met the desired amount, and somehow the general was insulted and killed the emissary. He had -20% bribe at first, and after that he had +50% bribe, as well. Odd, no?
Not that I'm aware of offhand, no. Not all traits have a cause, though; a number of them (particularly traits that affect acumen and command, such as Drinker, Numerate, Odd Number of Toes, etc.) are acquired at random.

Ludens

07-08-2008, 20:27

There is an old V&V guide in the Org download section (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?catid=166&sort=d&pp=10&page=4). It does not list causes, however, because these are hardcoded (i.e. not within the accessible game files).

Matrim

07-08-2008, 20:41

Well thanks, to both of you. I've run into the majority at one time or another, except the extremes, or the later "tiers" if you can understand what I mean by that. Interesting, though. One I recently found was "Delegates Responsibility" or somesuch. Adds 2 command and 2 acumen, if I remember correctly. I had never seen that one before, which is why I asked.

Martok

07-08-2008, 20:54

One I recently found was "Delegates Responsibility" or somesuch. Adds 2 command and 2 acumen, if I remember correctly. I had never seen that one before, which is why I asked.
I've heard of that one, but I'm honestly not sure if I've come across it myself. It does seem to be among the more rare traits.

Knight of the Rose

07-09-2008, 09:08

:inquisitive:

I've never seen such a boosting virtue, and it doesn't show in the list you've pointed to Martok.

There's Educated and Eloquent, which gives something in that direction?

And I couldn't see any file in the download section, I'm a little confused :dizzy2:

/KotR

Ironside

07-09-2008, 15:33

That one only shows up on heroes.

drone

07-09-2008, 15:59

That one only shows up on heroes.

Can't check now, but is that one of the VnVs that's commented out in the descriptions text file? I was wondering about those, I wasn't sure if they were used or just left over from unreleased builds.

Knight of the Rose

07-10-2008, 09:04

Found the text file, and it's there allright.

Shows the list that was pointed to is not completely covering, OR that not all v&v's in the text file were used. Expert sieger springs to mind.

So maybe some are only available to heroes, some are available to all, and we will never know :shame:

/KotR

drone

07-10-2008, 16:28

Knight of the Rose

07-11-2008, 11:13

I'm not at my own computer at the moment, but I'm quite sure it was the "changes" text file.

/KotR

Fagar

01-06-2009, 23:50

I am interested in your views of the randomness of vices and virtues.

Obviously they are a lot more common as your empire expands and you have more generals.
I normally just wear them on the chin and only pay attention to the traits that stand out.

However in my current campaign as the Danish, nearly without exception my generals have been picking up the pride vice, knocking 2 command off them all.
This has become extremely frustrating as you have to battle a lot to gain command and to lose that command so easily is dissapointing. The extra valour is no compensation for this at all, especially as on last count 12 of my 14 decent generals have this trait.
This has me questioning the randomness of trait giving and wondering if there is some code that is faction specific as I have not played as the Danes for years.
What are your thoughts
Cheers.

caravel

01-07-2009, 01:46

I've noticed that pride can sometimes have run in a certain faction at a certain time. It's usually there from the start and lasts out the entire campaign with a lot of generals being affected.

As to the randomness of v&vs, there is a random factor, but there are also certain events and other factors that influences vices. There are the obvious ones such as marrying the king to his daughter always creates the same vice and building triggering the builder line of virtues. But also high taxes, large treasury and a large income can also trigger corruption related vices.

Fagar

01-07-2009, 23:23

Cheers Caraveloto;

What you said certainly makes a lot of sense.
In nearly every campaign I have played as soon as I am powerful the vices start coming thick and fast.
I have just never encountered such a prevelance of the one vice and it is a nasty one at that!
My income is good at the momemt and my treasury sound I will reduce my taxes for a bit and see if there is any improvement.

caravel

01-08-2009, 17:18

Getting taxes down to normal once you're established and reducing your treasury somewhat makes a difference when it comes to corruption related vices. Just ensure that you are not overly dependent on trade income. Build farmland upgrades and mines where possible and disband units you do not need, especially any mercs. A peasant garisson, lots of happy builidngs and a higher level spy is more than enough for those provinces that are closed off from the enemy and/or have your fleets defending from coastal attacks. In Vanilla MTW the AI hardly spams ships so a 3 ships per sea region rule is a good idea. Three ships can usually take on and defeat anything that the AI throws at you. Try to upgrade to newer ship types when they become available, as support costs can be lower. Also if you claim an Island somewhere in the Med it could reduce your ship support costs significantly as they are calculated based on their distance from a friendly port.

:bow: