Casual sex is good, or is it?

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...I have a reservation for "Bitter" party of one...

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Yoyoma1910]

The fruit of the apple most sought is seldom sweet, my friend.



You could have skipped all that, moved to New York, become an artist, and had the same conclusions in a few weeks.

[Strike For The South]

This thread doesnt deserve my humor

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[drone]

Is the list of flags in your sig the nationalities of all the snow bunnies you've hit? ~D

[PanzerJaeger]

I used to adore girls, to follow their every whim. Today I am more likely to spit them in the mouth while having sex (most girls really like being dominated, even most girls who initially say they dont).

Oh boy.

...

The only thing I can say is that you should treat women with respect as equals. Don't worship them, and certainly don't treat them like crap. A healthy relationship - or even a healthy one night stand that won't make you feel bad in the morning - is built on honesty and equality.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Lemur]

Kadagar, it's useful when you're tied up in knots to ask: What do you want? Seems to me you thought you wanted to bang as many partners as possible, then realized what an empty thing that was.

So if you could have your way, what would you want now?

[LittleGrizzly]

Maybe i could interest you in swapping problems, you can leave out the casual sex and i..........


Anyway... casual sex is great for you phyiscally!! (assuming you avoid diseases and any partners they have) your problem sounds kind of like my friends problem, i don't think he's slept with quite so many girls but he treats them like crap and doesn't trust any women.... ill let you know if he figures out the solution himself...

ohh and btw if you happen to have friends who don't get it very often don't bring this complaint to them, its like bill gates complaining to a beggar that he has just too much money...

[Strike For The South]

Indeed:)


Panzer, you are right of course, I should. I wont, but I should.

I guess I have to get serious, I would never spit in a girls mouth unless she told me to. My mother raised me to be somewhat of a gentleman. I have found in my life the Misogynists are usually the ones who get hurt the most and the most often. You treat someone like :daisy: they will return you knidly. I also think the fact that you have sex with mothers and wives to utterly disgusting and find men like you to be utterly deplorable. Without going into to much of my personal life all I can say is you have no idea what this does to all involved. You may have gotten your jolies but the wreckage you leave behind scars people for life. If you said that to me in public I would probably knock you out due to sheer reaction of actually hearing those words come out of someone's mouth. Nice try being the poor hopeless romantic but at the end of the day you have ruined many lives and maybe thats why you dont believe in love and hate women because as the old saying goes "Karma's a :daisy:"

[Hooahguy]

The only thing I can say is that you should treat women with respect as equals. Don't worship them, and certainly don't treat them like crap. A healthy relationship - or even a healthy one night stand that won't make you feel bad in the morning - is built on honesty and equality.

aye-
having been through 3 relationships (2 with the same girl :sweatdrop:) i can say that yes, this is very, very true.

[drone]

In all fairness, any man who lets his significant other go off on a skiing holiday without him is just asking for trouble. This was true 10 years ago when I used to ski, and apparently it's true today. If it's not the ski instructors, it's all the other skiers/boarders.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Strike For The South]

SFTS, actually I dont think I have left many scarred persons in my wake. Don't get me wrong, I do still have morals.

Well you're lying to yourself.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well I've got absolutedly no experience with these matters but I think PJ hit the nail on the head.

When you're at the one extreme of thingking they're angels, then its understandable that things don't go your way and so you flip and go in the opposite direction of thinking they are scum.

Just remember that they are equal, don't let your personal experiences cloud your mind. You had problems in the past, but now you know that you're quite capable of getting a proper girlfriend, and the sooner you do that the better because then you will feel better and reach the balance you've been looking for, and other relationships won't get damaged in the process.

[Koga No Goshi]

Kadgar, seriously, I believe you should consider that this may be a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_addiction

[TinCow]

If you don't trust your partner not to cheat on you, then you're with the wrong person.

[Ice]

Kadagar, it's useful when you're tied up in knots to ask: What do you want? Seems to me you thought you wanted to bang as many partners as possible, then realized what an empty thing that was.

So if you could have your way, what would you want now?

I'd have to agree, although I can't really offer much advice for a solution other than don't screw committed people. It sounds like you have a lot of regret.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Meneldil]

Oh boy.

...

The only thing I can say is that you should treat women with respect as equals. Don't worship them, and certainly don't treat them like crap. A healthy relationship - or even a healthy one night stand that won't make you feel bad in the morning - is built on honesty and equality.


Unhappilly, that's not how it works, except in the rare case you find the Truly Beloved One.

In High School, I used to be like Kadagar_AV, kind of shy, romantic, intellectual (or at least pretending to be smart), treating girls as princesses and I only ended up as the 'absolute best friend' of all the hottest girls around there.
Obviously, I never got laid with any of them. Sure, they would come to me to explain how their actual boyfriend was an ass who treated them like crap. But sexual relation? No way, because you know, we're friends (the best part was when they asked "Why can't I find a nice guy like you ?", how many time have I heard that crap :no:)

Then I went to the University, got new friends, who used to go to the Pub/Night Club quite often. So to the Pub I went. There I quickly discovered that there's actually no freaking point in being a gentleman. To get laid, you have to act as a jerk, to talk dirty, etc. That's stupid, but that's how it work unfortunaly.
Some girls (and let me emphazise on *some*) are actually attracted by charming, non-jerk people, but they're usually already in a relationship or simply not sexually attractive.

So now, I act as a gentleman with my female friends (just because I like to be a dandy), act as a jerk with girls met at the Pub and still see the only girl I ever fall in love with (and with who hopefully nothing will ever happen) as some kind of celestial-supernatural-creature.

Now, mind you, I'm only 22, so I don't know how things go later on, but according to Kadagar, it doesn't really turn out better, and that is quite disheartening.


Kadgar, seriously, I believe you should consider that this may be a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_addiction

So hum, do you have any idea why so many students from basically all over the world go to the Pub as often as possible ? Yeah, that's it, because they want to get laid. It's actually quite ridiculous that young people have to get drunk and waste hundred of dollars per months to have some pleasure together. Wanting to have sex more than once every three weeks isn't sexual addiction. Or if it is, well I guess 90% of the western population under 40 is addicted to sex.

[Vladimir]

You doubt the true path?! You must ask the master (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=5924) for forgiveness.

[Koga No Goshi]

Koga, Maybe. I always liked sex:)


Liking sex =/= compulsion to have sex.

3 digit partners, that's over 100 presumably right? That's beyond just liking sex, that's nearly self destructive behavior in terms of risk, STD's, etc.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

SFTS. maybe, but I am a nice player. I dont intentionally hurt people. Sure, I might cause hurt if soemone finds out they have been cheated on, but, well, it#s bound to happen with or without me.

No. If there were less people doing what you have done, not nearly as many people would have been hurt. Sorry, but that's the cold, hard truth. You did something wrong if you knew they were taken. So did they, admittedly, but you had a certain responsibility. SFTS is right.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Strike For The South]

EMFM, your logic is only true if the girls really wanted me. However, my belief is that most girls wants "a ski instructor" or "a cool guy". Meaning, if I was not around, some less attractive ski instructor would have got the girl, or some less cool guy. But she would have had sex either way.

Sure, you flatter my ego when you think the girls falls for me, however, I dont believe it to be true (in some cases, maybe, but that's very few).

They may have but that guy would've ruined a family not you.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Strike For The South]

I don't see why the family is ruined though... mommy got some sex, mommy is happy for half a year, mommy goes on vacation again..

It's not like they go home crying in their husbands arms...

they might or the husband may find out. Live your life just be aware of what you're doing.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Koga No Goshi]

Kadagar,

An alcholic doesn't need to drink 6 bottles a night to be an alcoholic, sadly. I'm not suggesting it may be a problem to insult or judge on you or anything. I just think that this whole post kinda cries out that something's wrong, and that you know it, on some level.

[Strike For The South]

Don't get me wrong, I of course understand that some people might get hurt. However, my point is that i think the one who cheats is doing teh wrong thing, not the one they cheat with (specially when you hear AFTERWARDS that they are married, have a boyfriend or whatever).

I have never cheated in my whole life though, when I have had a GF. And nor will I:)

If you find out afterwards thats one thing but Im sure that wasnt the case all the time.

[Strike For The South]

An alcholic doesn't need to drink 6 bottles a night to be an alcoholic.

Yea I'm a functioning member of society!

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Strike For The South]

SFTS, No of course not. Like the honeymoon one, I was aware she was tehre with her new husband, what made me do it was actually curiosity... "Will she really..."

How scummy of you.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

SFTS, No of course not. Like the honeymoon one, I was aware she was tehre with her new husband, what made me do it was actually curiosity... "Will she really..."

I have to agree with SFTS. You were not thinking rationally. Honestly, she's there with her new husband and cheating already.

[Yoyoma1910]

Whatever you've lost, you're not going to get back.




It's part of life.



You sought something, you found it, and it isn't as pleasant as it is ever portrayed.


What are you seeking to find and satisfy through all these women? An Ideal? Curiosity? Pleasure?

What really made you decide to begin this lifestyle, and what causes you to continue it?



Anyway, I know this may seem out of place, but I'd like to recommend a few books if I could, that you may enjoy, or at least find an empathetic situation:


Women, Charles Bukowski
The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Milan Kundera
Couples, John Updike

[Koga No Goshi]

I don't think I'm necessarily right either Kadagar, but I do think something is wrong to engage in this kind of behavior casually.

And I'm not a Christian, or super thumping moralist or anything. So I'm saying it without judgment, just an observation.


Like the honeymoon one, I was aware she was tehre with her new husband, what made me do it was actually curiosity... "Will she really..."

This is very sociopathic sounding. I would seriously treat this as a problem. You should talk to a professional of some sort.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

How much of this is bitterness at women, and how much is bitterness at yourself?


Your OP suggests that, whatever temporary "fun" you were having, you were aware that you were putting your deeper life and self on "hold" while pursing this end (pardon the pun).


Perhaps it is time to return to your original course?

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Strike For The South]

Whatever one day you will get whats coming toward you

[Koga No Goshi]

SFTS, EMFM, I didn't say it was not scummy... In fact, I totally agree... I told you in OP that I have turned into a "not so nice guy".


Yoyoma1910, Of course pleasure is what I seek. With a hint of revenge and a touch of social respect.

I'll look into those books:)


Koga, sociopatic was probably a bit harsh... I mean, I dont rape people, or stress anyone to have sex with me. Heck, i dont even have sex with girls if they are too intoxicated. I say no if a girl is overly drunk, as she might regret it later.


Seamus, i dont know what the original course was anymore though:(

I would say it's 80% bitterness towards women and 20% directed towards myself.

Hey Kad,

I didn't mean you are a sociopath. But that was a slightly sociopathic act. Sociopath doesn't necessarily mean flipping out and mass murdering people. Just means you reject rules of behavior and social norms and only follow your own.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Whatever one day you will get whats coming toward you

As a Catholic, I believe that that may be said of all of us.

[Strike For The South]

As a Catholic, I believe that that may be said of all of us.

I meant in real life and you are right a man should not throw stones. This thread just hit a raw nerve Im done with it.

Thank you brother :bow:

[Csargo]

Koga, sociopatic was probably a bit harsh... I mean, I dont rape people, or stress anyone to have sex with me. Heck, i dont even have sex with girls if they are too intoxicated. I say no if a girl is overly drunk, as she might regret it later.

No, I'd say it was a bit harsh for you to have sex with another man's wife, so you could see if "she really would" was how you put it I believe.

[Fragony]

A little adventure is ok these things happen, sex is fun enjoy it.

[Sigurd]

Kadgar ...

If you seek advice with your OP amongst your peers here at .org, at least I can give you one.
Stay away from the committed honeys. If you learn that she has a man, just abort whatever process you are running with her.
I have no problem with singles having casual sex, in fact I would encourage it. IMO a relationship is dependent on a couple having good intimacy. But I believe in families and as soon as you have found your partner you make the commitment to stay true.

To say that everyone cheats, is a fallacy. You yourself just admitted that you never cheat when in a relationship. I'll break it to you, this is the norm.

[Fragony]

Stay away from the committed honeys. If you learn that she has a man, just abort whatever process you are running with her.

Why. Women are creatures with free will. She is either in a lose relationship so it doesn't matter, or she isn't and she has probably done it before and will most likely do it again, so it doesn't matter.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Sigurd]

Why are you not cheating while in a relationship?

[InsaneApache]

My, my, what to say. My view is that you need a bloody good hiding for shagging other mens wives. If the husband finds out, what do you think will happen? You state that you've had sex with mothers, what happens to the kids if the parents divorce because of you? There are many single women out there, so why screw up a family. Besides that, as has been said, you sound terribly bitter towards females. I'd try a lot of positive self talk if I were you, (although I've never knowingly had sex with someone in a relationship, it's just plain wrong), you're the problem, not the women. This is evident in your treatment of them, which i find despicable.


If you don't trust your partner not to cheat on you, then you're with the wrong person.

What he said. ^^

[Fragony]

Give the man a break he is a swedish ski-instructor, hardest part of the job is probably fighting of these harpies no shame in losing once or twice.

[InsaneApache]

Give the man a break he is a swedish ski-instructor, hardest part of the job is probably fighting of these harpies no shame in losing once or twice.

No. There are plenty of single women about, no need to bugger up families.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Fragony]

No. There are plenty of single women about, no need to bugger up families.

He isn't, these women are. Your best friend's girlfriend is a no, the rest is fair game. If I can get a go at Angelina Jolie I wouldn't be very burdened by the fact that she's with Brad Pitt.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[InsaneApache]

Sigurd, I have asked myself the same question a lot of times... I honestly don't know... It just feels wrong.


InsaneApache, what will happen if the husband finds out that his wife cheated on him while on skiing vacation? Hm... I think he would be mad at the wife, not the random guy.

I dont think they would divorce because of me, but because of the one who was cheating. No?

So your argument is, that if i didn't have sex with them, no one else would either?

Come on, it's not like I rape them...

That's not the point. You stated that you did have sex with several married women. You are dodging responsibility. Did you know that under UK law, it could be you that would pay all the legal costs for the divorce. It could run into thousands of pounds. Just shrugging you shoulders and saying "Nowt to do with me guv!" is dishonest.

Your arguement is a bit like saying that you'd rob a bank, because if you didn't do it, someone else would. Some things are just wrong.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[pevergreen]

If you don't trust your partner not to cheat on you, then you're with the wrong person.

I still think it depends on the person as well.

Im sorry Khadgar, but that post just makes me sick. (edit: First post)

Normally I would be all for you, but what I was told last night, just makes that terrible.

[Fragony]

That's not the point. You stated that you did have sex with several married women. You are dodging responsibility. Did you know that under UK law, it could be you that would pay all the legal costs for the divorce. It could run into thousands of pounds. Just shrugging you shoulders and saying "Nowt to do with me guv!" is dishonest.


That actually happened? Sounds like something from the victorian era. People are responsible for their own relationships. If a woman cheats on her husband she is the only one who should be held responsible. Saying no to sex, no.

[InsaneApache]

That actually happened? Sounds like something from the victorian era. People are responsible for their own relationships. If a woman cheats on her husband she is the only one who should be held responsible. Saying no to sex, no.

Yes. Not so much these days with the advent of 'no fault' divorce :dizzy2: , but I believe it's still possible to load the costs of the divorce onto the co-respondant. Quite right.

[Ronin]

That's not the point. You stated that you did have sex with several married women. You are dodging responsibility. Did you know that under UK law, it could be you that would pay all the legal costs for the divorce. It could run into thousands of pounds. Just shrugging you shoulders and saying "Nowt to do with me guv!" is dishonest.

Your arguement is a bit like saying that you'd rob a bank, because if you didn't do it, someone else would. Some things are just wrong.


Just because that´s in the law doesn´t make that right....that law just sounds very dumb.

the person that is in the marriage is the one that entered into an agreement that involved sexual fidelity.....if he/she then goes out and has sex with someone out of wedlock they are responsible for breaking the contract :deal2: the person they are having sex with is not.

I can understand one might find something like this a tad incorrect, I myself would not openly set out to have sex with women married with other men....but if I did I would not be the one guilty for the failure of their marriage.

[Fragony]

Yes. Not so much these days with the advent of 'no fault' divorce :dizzy2: , but I believe it's still possible to load the costs of the divorce onto the co-respondant. Quite right.

Rediculous. imho you guys are much more sexists then Kandagar and needlessly harsh, there is the implicit assumption he is taking advantage of them, while in reality most of the time it are the women taking the initiative. He is just one healthy male.

[Husar]

Am I the only one here who thinks that if he had sex with wives and mothers and it wasn't rape, then he isn't the only one doing something wrong? :inquisitive:
Of course you can say they can't help it but then maybe he can't help it either, it's human nature and we should not consider it cheating anyway. Or maybe you all see women as angels and put all the blame for their recklessness on the poor guy. As for me, I'm waiting for a partner who wants me, what happens when you conquer someone can be seen in Afghanistan. ~;)

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[InsaneApache]

Rediculous. imho you guys are much more sexists then Kandagar and needlessly harsh, there is the implicit assumption he is taking advantage of them, while in reality most of the time it are the women taking the initiative. He is just one healthy male.

Well it's very ancient law probably based on coverting asses and oxen and suchlike. I think the intention was to make cuckolders stop and think before they decided to go with a married woman.

Of course if the married woman does have sex outside of the marriage she has to take a fair share of the blame. However, it takes two to tango.

I'm guessing that the opening poster is still a young lad and didn't his girlfriend dump him just after he emigrated? Sounds like his taking out his bile on the partners of his 'conquests'. Nice guy.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Fragony]

Of course if the married woman does have sex outside of the marriage she has to take a fair share of the blame. However, it takes two to tango.

All the blame. Common we are males, if it has legs, a head, two bumps and isn't a camel...

[Kagemusha]

Im not sure what to think about the subject. Ive had many sex partners over the years and currently i am in so called open relationship with a 9 years younger woman then im myself and to be honest its tearing me a part.
We both agreed that we could have sex with other people also, as she thinks she is not ready for commitment, while she said she did not want other men. Other part of the deal was that we would be honest about the other people to each other and tell if we had other partners.
I have used that "option" once and when i told her about it, i could not help it, but i got the sensation that it hurted her a lot, while the "rules" were proposed by her. After the occasion, i have felt more and more jealous about her and have big problems trusting her, while for example she has spent a night with another man, while telling me that nothing happened.
Now i am not sure is it my jealousnes making me unable to trust her, or does she sense it so strongly that she is afraid to tell me,which causes her to lie to me. We humans are so controversial and difficult to understand beings that sometimes its hard to know what is going on on other peoples heads and many times even ones own head. Confusing, very confusing.

[LittleGrizzly]

I have to agree with kad and frag here, the one doing the wrong is the married woman/mother the fact that kad doesn't pursue these but reacts to thier advances pretty much clears him by my moral standards, as far as im concerned its the person cheating that deserves the blame not the single person, if they pursued the married person then thats slightly wrong...

[Lemur]

Look, let's inject a little realism here, okay? When you're young and hot, it's fun to play around, but too much of anything can mess you up. Heck, too much baby aspirin can kill you.

Kadagar, you've dipped deep in the well of excess, and now you're paying the price. It has messed with your head, and your ability to trust. But think about it — each and every one of us is going to be old and wrinkled some day.

Would you like to be like Hugh Hefner, a grizzled, aging Lothario who pals around with women young enough to be his granddaughters? He has always struck me as rather pathetic, like a dude who can't come to grips with growing up.

At the end of the day there's nothing more fulfilling than a strong pair bond. Does it get boring? Sure. Does your mind and eye wander from time to time? Sure. Do some people cheat? I'd say about 50% do. But as was said a week or two ago on Mad Men, "I know marriage isn’t a natural state, but you do it anyway."

Ask yourself where you want to be in ten years. In twenty years. Do you want to be a middle-aged boytoy who facilitates the fantasies of bored housewives? Does that sound appealing?

If not, you need to re-evaluate and re-tool.

P.S.: Regarding married women, it's not just up to them to respect the ring. You need to respect it as well, buddy.

[ICantSpellDawg]

All we can do to believe in long-standing love is to never cheat ourselves. It is the most effective thing in our arsenal and, when all is said and done, you know that some people don't cheat - because you don't. That helps you keep the ideal in mind.

Another effective thing is to avoid temptation. Married couples should spend most of their free time together and cultivate their interests in tandem. Remove yourself from close friendships with people from the opposite sex; Opportunity is the mother of indiscretion, after all.

I have never had a problem being faithful to a partner. I am not a lothario and don't have a hyperactive sex drive. I respect different things in life.

[PBI]

I'd actually tend to side with Insane Apache on this one. Sleeping with a guy's wife is pretty much the most offensive thing you can do to him. What exactly have these women's husbands done to you to deserve that?

As Lemur says, everyone has moments of weakness, where they are tempted to cheat. Speaking personally, I suspect I would be furious at my girlfriend if she had her head turned for a night of passion with a Swedish ski instructor, but I would be more likely to forgive her than him. Indeed I would say the chances are good I would want to go after him with a cricket bat.

I certainly wouldn't want to see adultery made illegal, but it is still a deeply dishonourable and immoral thing to do and deeply harmful and damaging to a great many people who have done nothing to deserve it. That fact that other people are doing it too in no way absolves you from blame. From the way you write I suspect on some level you know this.

Consider this as a final thought. You suggest that those of us whose wives or girlfriends have gone skiing in the recent past should get our kids paternity tested. Suppose some guy gets his kids tested, they turn out not to be his, and he walks out and refuses to care for them anymore. Legally, you would be liable for child support. Fancy that?

[Craterus]

Is this a stable? There are so many high horses, I just can't tell.

Kadagar, I think you should have a think about what you really want and then do that.

[Koga No Goshi]

Rediculous. imho you guys are much more sexists then Kandagar and needlessly harsh, there is the implicit assumption he is taking advantage of them, while in reality most of the time it are the women taking the initiative. He is just one healthy male.

I'm amazed at the double standards in reactions about this sort of thing sometimes. Anyone remember when Magic Johnson came forward and confessed to sleeping with hundreds of women? And the general public attitude about his actions? Certainly VERY few people felt any sympathy for him whatsoever in contracting HIV.

[ICantSpellDawg]

nvm

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Interesting.

Some of the more "left" posters are the most vehement in decrying K's behavior in regards to women already married, whereas the more "right" posters are either a) suggesting he change tracks for his own good or b) urging him to "hit it" even more.

Not sure what to make of that.

[Lemur]

Not sure what to make of that.
Probably the same reason the average Republican politician is on his second or third wife. I'd say more, but I don't want to derail/sabotage Kadagar's thread.

[Koga No Goshi]

Interesting.

Some of the more "left" posters are the most vehement in decrying K's behavior in regards to women already married, whereas the more "right" posters are either a) suggesting he change tracks for his own good or b) urging him to "hit it" even more.

Not sure what to make of that.

I'm very liberal, I do not believe any law should prevent Kadagar from his behavior. But I still believe in respecting dignity not only for yourself but for your fellow man or woman. "I'm not the married one, it's not my problem" is still extremely disrespectful to the married woman's husband; would Kadagar or anyone else like it if some other guy took that attitude about his wife? Those kinds of attitudes make the world poorer and more selfish.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Csargo]

Koga, I would not like the person who had sex with my wife... But I wouldn't really dislike him either. It would be a "meh, who cares" unless it was some friend or someone I knew. There is a difference there, of course. However, if she had sex with her surfing instructor while on vacation, I would see it for what it was, in this case, all her fault, none his.

How do you come to that conclusion?

[Koga No Goshi]

Seamus, I also noticed that... It is rather interesting to argue with Koga and get backed up by Fragony!


Koga, I would not like the person who had sex with my wife... But I wouldn't really dislike him either. It would be a "meh, who cares" unless it was some friend or someone I knew. There is a difference there, of course. However, if she had sex with her surfing instructor while on vacation, I would see it for what it was, in this case, all her fault, none his.

I agree the difference is interesting. But hopefully it throws a log into the whole 'no liberals believe in any personal responsibility' thing. I believe people should take responsibility for the things they have a direct choice about, like their personal decisions and such. I do not believe they should be told to bugger off and take responsibility for something they can't control, like getting a disease or having an earthquake flatten their house or going bankrupt from medical bills. And most times you just spin that around in inverse and you have a stereotypical far rightie's viewpoints. :)

I don't think Kadagar is a bad guy at all and if Kad you or anyone else got that impression that was my mistake. I do think this behavior though is destructive, not just to others, but also to you, even if you don't realize it. You mentioned already getting one STD, one would wonder what would happen if you found out you had, or in the future got, a more serious or lifelong one, and if this behavior was worth it. How do you explain to your future fiancee how you got hepatitis or herpes? I do believe there's some kind of compulsion at work if you've slept with hundreds of women, but that's just my personal observation and no form of professional opinion.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Seamus, I also noticed that... It is rather interesting to argue with Koga and get backed up by Fragony!


Koga, I would not like the person who had sex with my wife... But I wouldn't really dislike him either. It would be a "meh, who cares" unless it was some friend or someone I knew. There is a difference there, of course. However, if she had sex with her surfing instructor while on vacation, I would see it for what it was, in this case, all her fault, none his.

I agree with both of you. My anger would be reserved for my spouse. I probably wouldn't be overtly angry at the guy unless I knew him or he added insult to injury. I wouldn't have much respect for him as more than a detriment to an enjoyable life on earth for other people, but that's another story.

I think that people should make the conscious decision not to engage in promiscuous sex for their own consciences - As you have reavelead may not have been a bad idea in the first place. I don't beleive that laws should exist telling you how destructive and pointless casual sex can be(particularly if one or both parties are married) - you should figure that out one way or another. Any behaviour that hurts your respect for women or aids in the destruction of anyones marriage should be avoided from my point of view, but I can only guard myself against such practices and stay on my toes regarding those I commit my life and property to.

All in all I agree with Koga's approach to the topic of promiscuity.

The world would be a much more reasonable place if, instead of infidelity or destructive promiscuity people lived by the mantra "when in doubt, rub one out".

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Csargo]

Ichigo, if she had sex with a surf instructor, it would be pretty clear that she was out for a thrill. My point is, she most likely had sex with "a surfing instructor", not with "Adam Smith". It's not even sure she remembers his name.

Okay.

[PBI]

Poor bloody infantry,

What an archaic way to look at women... You think the ski instructor beat her with a club and dragged her home by the hair? You would "valiantly" beat up the person who "befouled" your wife? How do you even know he knew she was married? And even if he did, how do you know what she told him?


I'm just saying that if my wife cheated on me, I would instinctively hate the guy who she cheated with as much if not more than her. It's not certainly not noble, or right, or fair, but it is the truth.

My "archaic" view of women is that, being human beings, they like me are capable of making poor decisions that they will later regret. So yes, I tend to think they are rather less at fault than the guy waiting ready to take full advantage of those poor decisions without apparent concern for the damage they will cause.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Tuffstuff, the world would be a better placeyes... However, humans are humans, and humans have instincts and needs. I dont think we are made to have one partner for life.

Big deal. Instincts are instincts.

We have instinct to kill opposition, steal when we want things, beat our children, rape those that we lust after.

Empathy is an enlightened emotion and allows us to overcome or control instincts that may not lead to a harmonious existence with others, particularly those we love.

What we were made to do regarding partners is very different between people. You may say monogamy is for weaklings and those out of touch with instinct - many people who have never cheated on their married spouse would most likely disagree with your opinion.

BTW - I view STDS as a great deterrent from infidelity. If you don't use rubbers, your partner knows that she is particularly endangering both of your healths if she strays, and so do you.
Think of it as a trust bomb that will blow up once trust is breached. I celebrate STDS for their correcting effect on instinct.

[Viking]

Personally, I don't see just why I should care my GF (if I actually had one) did it with someone else; she's not my property. Yeah, that's how much of an individualist I am. ~D

As for the OP; how much hypocrisy is it not to misbehave against people conducting something you condemn while you provide them with the 100% necessary help they need in order to perform the very act you condemn? That's like a porn star fighting porn with bad, but nevertheless real, porn.

[Craterus]

If you love someone then it follows that you want to make them happy. If what makes them happy is sleeping around behind your back, then you can't really complain.

Or would you all just like to admit that love is completely self-serving?

(Just something I've been thinking about and thought I'd post it...)

[Andres]

The more complicated you make your life, the more chance of becoming unhappy.

Kadagar, I think one of the reasons you dislike women, is because you approach them as objects who exist solely to fulfill your sexual desires. As long as you don't change that approach, you won't find happiness in a relationship. The problem is not women, the problem is you.

And Kage: I've known two couples who tried the "you're free to sleep with somebody else"-approach: one ended in breaking up, the other one ended in a very painful divorce. That stuff just doesn't work and nobody will ever manage to convince me otherwise. People who do that and tell you that they have a healthy relationship are lying to you and themselves. My advice : either stop the madness and take a fresh start with "normal rules" for your relationship (your gf hates it as much as you do, so what's the point in keeping those "rules"), or, if too much damage has been done, quit the relationship and never do such a thing again.

As for me, I'm married and I consider loyalty and fidelity the most important things in a relationship. I cannot accept cheating and I strongly dislike people who cheat on their partner. As for the single guy/woman sleeping with a married woman/man, sorry, you get nadda, zero, nul sympathy from me. And I don't buy the petty "I'm not the one who's married/has a relationship, so I'm not the one doing anything wrong"-excuse. That's nonsense. You are knowingly cooperating in destroying a relationship or, even worse, a marriage. And the "but if it's not me, she'll take somebody else". You can at least be honorable for yourself. It's not because somebody else will lower himself to the lowest of levels, that you should do so as well. You have no apologies nor excuses. None, nada, zero.

I've seen too many broken marriages/relationships, both in my professional life as with people who are/were close to me. To be completely honest I detest people who cheat on their wife/husband or singles who happily cooperate, so I'll just refrain from further posting in this thread.

:bow:

[ICantSpellDawg]

Water seeks its own level. You control your bouyancy.

Imagine if boy1 and girl build a sand castle together, then girl runs over to boy2 and they mutually decide that they will destroy the sandcastle that she and boy1 obviously built together.

Clearly girl is a sleezebag. What level of blame would you give boy2?

[Andres]

Water seeks its own level. You control your bouyancy.

Imagine if boy1 and girl build a sand castle together, then girl runs over to boy2 and they mutually decide that they will destroy the sandcastle that she and boy1 obviously built together.

Clearly girl is a sleezebag. What level of blame would you give boy2?

For his own five minutes of pleasure, he destroys the life of boy1.

Boy2 is extremely selfish and needs some re-education :whip:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Andres, evil orgahs are poking fun at you in the American election thread!!1!!


Well, me in fact. But I thought I'd mention it anyway.

[Koga No Goshi]

Koga, only reason I got an STD was cause it was a GF (we were only together for 3 weeks though, then I dumped her). So the moral of this story would be, if you want safe sex, avoid getting a girlfriend. With more temporary partners I always rubber up, with gilfriends I dont... Meaning the odds are probably higher of me getting a STD from a girlfriend than a one night stand... So your logic fails.

This sounds exactly like what you hear when an addict is justifying an addiction. "I only got the hangover because I stopped and didn't drink as much as usual. When I drink my usual amount everynight, I don't get sick."

P.S., the fact that out of hundreds of women you've slept with, one you're with for 3 weeks would qualify as a "relationship", should be a sign that something is wrong, Kad.

[InsaneApache]

If you love someone then it follows that you want to make them happy. If what makes them happy is sleeping around behind your back, then you can't really complain.

Or would you all just like to admit that love is completely self-serving?

(Just something I've been thinking about and thought I'd post it...)

Something tells me that love hasn't touched your heart. (yet)

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Husar]

If you love someone then it follows that you want to make them happy. If what makes them happy is sleeping around behind your back, then you can't really complain.

Or would you all just like to admit that love is completely self-serving?

(Just something I've been thinking about and thought I'd post it...)

Now if we turn that around then your spouse would want to make you happy as well but her/his actions of sleeping around will make you very sad instead, if the person is not very self-serving her/himself then, why would she/he sleep around? :inquisitive:

[ICantSpellDawg]

Tuffstuff, I agree STDs are a big weapon against infidelity. Thank god we have condoms to combat the STDs.


I never wear em and statistically the break often enough. I'm kind of masochistic when it comes to relationships. I'd take a deadly case of syphyllis to cath my gf or wife cheating on me. Then they'd regret it...

It is ethical insurance. You only live once - don't be afraid to use the big guns.:yes:

The sandcastle is an adequate analogy. No analogy is perfect, some are bad - but that one was pretty good.

Like I said - the best personal defense from infidelity is to never do it yourself. You'll always know that somebody doesn't do it. Then, when you get cheated on and people tell you to stay because it "happens all the time" - you'll know that not everybody is like that because you're not and you can drop them like the sweaty skid filled jockstrap they are.

If everyone did that there would be no problem.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[PBI]

Poor Bloody Infantry, I guess we have to agree to disagree. I can not see how teh third part could be at blame in this scenario. Sure, it would be something different if it was someone in the social network, who really was out to bang someones wife. But this is like Vegas, "What happens in Vegas, stays in vegas".

I guess we will. I should qualify, if the guy is truly not aware the woman is married or in a relationship, he has done nothing wrong. Similarly if the husband and wife truly have an "understanding". But I got the impression from your OP that that is not always the case, apologies if I have misunderstood.

Perhaps I should explain where I am coming from, I am glad to be able to say I have never been cheated on myself, but I do come from a family which was almost torn apart by adultery when I was 13. As such I tend to have little patience with those who cheat or who help them do it. Please understand I bear you no malice personally, but you should know that the woman my dad screwed around with is one of the very few people on this planet I would say I truly hate. You should be aware that the husbands or children of the women you sleep with likely feel the same way about you.

Assuming we now understand one another correctly, it is perhaps best if I follow Andres' sensible example and butt out of this thread henceforth.

[Decker]

It's amazing how much damage hormones can cause isn't it? Look at some of the dating threads in the frontroom... it seems that getting laid is "cool." It seems that's what got you to where you are now doesn't it? It starts with succumbing to the pressure, and sure it may be good, but in the end... what are you getting out of it?

My question to you, is how hard are you willing to try to become that person you were before decided to lower your moral standards in regards to women? To respect and treat them not like an object, but a human being. As it seems you are so down on "love". You say you've only had 2 since then? Then why not start now. Swear it off for a month... and if you did it without struggling, then go for 2 and so on... If two people can live together for more than 50 years, through thick-n-thin, then surely it must exist. If you want it sooooooo badly, then the saying, "if I build it, they will come," fits you perfectly. You may have to quite the ski instructor gig to find it, sure you love it, but if it's destroying you (or in this case, yourself), then why continue down that path???

Ironically, constantly arguing about... "oh the guy isn't in the wrong it's the married women," or, "the guy and the women are both wrong and the husband is the victim," appear to be off topic here. It's about Kadagar_AV, and whether or not he (you) will decide to ask yourself the hard questions, make decisions, and act on them.

I do not support you or your arguments or what you have done. In fact, I wouldn't want to be around you... I could tolerate you(as I do with a few people I know) but I wouldn't associate myself with you if I could help it. I'm very much with Andres and Strike for the South on this one.

I'd rather you take what I said in and decide for yourself on what to do. If you wish to answer here be my guest. I'm no psychologist, but that is what I'd say to you if I knew you as a friend in RL. You seem to be old enough and mature enough to realize what you have done, become, left behind, and where you want to and don't want to go.

That's all I can say for now...

[Fragony]

I'm amazed at the double standards in reactions about this sort of thing sometimes. Anyone remember when Magic Johnson came forward and confessed to sleeping with hundreds of women? And the general public attitude about his actions? Certainly VERY few people felt any sympathy for him whatsoever in contracting HIV.

I really have no idea what the double standard is here. Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour. I am a bit suspicious of the moral outrage here. So she has a family. What's it to you. A healthy male doesn't turn down a goodlooking woman.

Andres, evil orgahs are poking fun at you in the American election thread!!1!!

The belgium tragedy. Nobody knows who you are except the dutch and the french, and they make fun of you.

[Husar]

That's a nice post Decker and I agree with it.

[JR-]

Is the list of flags in your sig the nationalities of all the snow bunnies you've hit? ~D

playing the country game is the most intoxicating fun i have ever had in my life, 11 months of nailing chics of every nationality i came across.
kadagar is right, it is mostly about attitude and if you have it then you will not lack for talent.

my bedpost as such was an old map of the british empire, which over time had more and more of the worlds nations coloured in glorious pink.

then i met a lovely foreign girl and we have been together since, so no unhappy ending.

and yes, casual sex is awesome.

[Major Robert Dump]

Condoms dont prevent HPV. Men can't be tested for HPV, and show no symptoms in most cases. While not all forms of HPV cause cervical cancer, 99.99% of cervical cancers are caused by HPV. There are lots of strands, a huge segment of the population is infected, and something like 4 or 5 of the strands are cancerous to women and have been linked to throat and testicular cancer in men. To further complicate things, the incubation period can be anywhere from 3 months to 10 years.

This is why infidelity scares me as a married man: the thought that I could bring home something and BAM my wife gets cervical cancer

That being said, I envy you actually. You've had more quality wool than entire companies of troops. I hope you took pictures. Not of the sex, mind you, but of the girls themselves, in a natural setting. Always take pictures of the beautiful girls, because when you are old and decrepit and you cant remember anymore, at least you'll still have the pictures.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Hey, MRD, good to see you back!

~:wave:

[Craterus]

Something tells me that love hasn't touched your heart. (yet)

I think it's best if I admit that I'm not wise enough to claim either way.

However, what is love if not the love of how that other person makes you feel? We are inherently selfish creatures after all.

If we were really concerned about the other person's happiness, cheating wouldn't be such a big deal.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I think it's best if I admit that I'm not wise enough to claim either way.

However, what is love if not the love of how that other person makes you feel? We are inherently selfish creatures after all.

If we were really concerned about the other person's happiness, cheating wouldn't be such a big deal.


Why not? couldn't you say the same thing only opposite? "If we were really concerned about the other person's happiness, people wouldn't cheat on their partner"

You are saying it is the person being cheated on who is being selfish? Hahaha
What is this? Take a common sense position and then twist it to be a clever absurdity day?

Cheating causes disease and breaks up relationships and trust. Having an open marriage is stupid but your choice to make, but cheating is something else. Engaging in risky and communicable behaviours while lying and endangering a directly interested party is the pinncle of selfishness.

Agreeing to an open marriage is a consented thing, yet rarely works - Cheating is lying and betrayal.

[Craterus]

Why not? couldn't you say the same thing only opposite? "If we were really concerned about the other person's happiness, people wouldn't cheat on their partner"

You are saying it is the person being cheated on who is being selfish? Hahaha
What is this? Take a common sense position and then twist it to be a clever absurdity day?

Cheating causes disease and breaks up relationships and trust. Having an open marriage is stupid but your choice to make, but cheating is something else. Engaging in risky and communicable behaviours while lying and endangering a directly interested party is the pinncle of selfishness.

Agreeing to an open marriage is a consented thing, yet rarely works - Cheating is lying and betrayal.

Then you admit that relationships have more to do with our own happiness than the other person?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Then you admit that relationships have more to do with our own happiness than the other person?

Relationships have something to do with keeping both partners happy. If I cheated on my girlfriend, she would be angry (and I would be angry at myself and it conflicts with my sense of morals, but that's beside the point) and unhappy, and therefore I would never cheat on her. This is considering the other partner and keeping them happy, which is the point of a relationship.

[Koga No Goshi]

I really have no idea what the double standard is here. Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour. I am a bit suspicious of the moral outrage here. So she has a family. What's it to you. A healthy male doesn't turn down a goodlooking woman.

If there is absolutely no consequence for antisocial behavior then there is no potential to have to take any responsibility for it.

[ICantSpellDawg]

If there is absolutely no consequence for antisocial behavior then there is no potential to have to take any responsibility for it.

Hahaha you're starting to sound like one of us now.

I agree. Fortunately there both biological, social, emotional, material, and inter-personal consequences that clash with such actions. Some of which Kad seems to be dealing with at the moment, others that he might deal with during flare-ups.

[Koga No Goshi]

Hahaha you're starting to sound like one of us now.

I agree. Fortunately there both biological, social, emotional, material, and inter-personal consequences that clash with such actions. Some of which Kad seems to be dealing with at the moment, others that he might deal with during flare-ups.

As I said earlier, I believe in personal responsibility where it is actually appropriately applied. The notion that holding someone to personal responsibility is just a feature of the right comes from the fact that the right disagrees with the left not holding people accountable for things outside of their control, like natural disasters or diseases or abject poverty.

[ICantSpellDawg]

As I said earlier, I believe in personal responsibility where it is actually appropriately applied. The notion that holding someone to personal responsibility is just a feature of the right comes from the fact that the right disagrees with the left not holding people accountable for things outside of their control, like natural disasters or diseases or abject poverty.

Pregnancy isn't a natural disaster...

I'm glad to hear it. I know that some liberals have personal responsibility just like I know that some "conservatives" can't be trusted around the hen house or a neighbor's wallet.

I don't always vilify the left. I primarily vilify them on abortion - everything else is eminently negotiable and probably in need of another look occasionally.

[Koga No Goshi]

Pregnancy isn't a natural disaster...

I'm glad to hear it. I know that some liberals have personal responsibility just like I know that some "conservatives" can't be trusted around the hen house or a neighbor's wallet.

I don't always vilify the left. I primarily vilify them on abortion - everything else is eminently negotiable and probably in need of another look occasionally.

Responsibility's become one of those buzzwords like activist judging... typically all it means when people throw around personal responsibility is a dispute between "I don't think someone deserves sympathy" and "I think someone deserves sympathy."

I pay taxes and bills and credit card statements, I've never declared bankruptcy or used any form of social service, I don't have any liens or court orders on my paycheck for unpaid child support or back taxes. I'm sure my credit score is nowhere near perfect but a lot of that has to do with not having bought anything bigger than a car yet. I've broken things and paid for them. I've followed the rules in school and work and faced consequences when I screwed something up.

To me that's what personal responsibility is. When it gets into strange realms where it's inordinately applied in one direction and not another (an example would be, blaming individual soldiers for following illegal or unjust orders or policies, but not believing the people who signed those orders or policies should face any sort of punishment--- another example would be telling people who lost their pension and stock options and health insurance when a company screwed around and cooked the books and then flopped abruptly to take responsibility, while just sort of shrugging that the CEO's and execs had $400,000 parties and golden parachutes and bailed out in the black) is where I start to get suspicious of whether or not what we're really talking about is taking responsibility so much as believing someone should be blamed for things that happen to them outside of their control.

I would call this thread one of the "strange realms", especially when it comes to blaming people who have affairs with Kadagar, and saying Kadagar shares none of the blame. I do not believe, as I said earlier, any law should persecute him for his choice of behavior. But I don't understand how someone could behave that way and not see it as a problem, not see it as destructive (to both self and others) and not see it as irresponsible.

[Husar]

If we were really concerned about the other person's happiness, cheating wouldn't be such a big deal.

Few posts before I explained why it is. cheating is a selfish act and a relationship is based on giving away some of that selfishness. There's not just black and white, it's a mix of both. And if the happiness is spread to both, is it not a greater gain than if only one person becomes happier?

[Fragony]

As I said earlier, I believe in personal responsibility where it is actually appropriately applied. The notion that holding someone to personal responsibility is just a feature of the right comes from the fact that the right disagrees with the left not holding people accountable for things outside of their control, like natural disasters or diseases or abject poverty.

No idea what the left/right has to do with any of this. If it is a matter of decency, good for you, but mr Fragony isn't going to turn down a hot woman. That's rude. If she has a husband, he doesn't own her/should have bought her more flowers.

[pevergreen]

No idea what the left/right has to do with any of this. If it is a matter of decency, good for you, but mr Fragony isn't going to turn down a hot woman. That's rude. If she has a husband, he doesn't own her/should have bought her more flowers.

Im sorry, I just cant accept that. There is a level of trust in a relationship that its mutually exclusive (think i've got the right words)

I think there is reasoning. Presuming the female is cheating, why?

She could:

Find the Man attractive
Feel as though she doesnt want her current partner anymore
Do it as a weird revenge thing
Want something new


I think that in the first case, if the person cheating can't restrain from bonking anyone they find attractive, they aren't worthy of trust. In the second instance, a sit down and talk with the partner and talking through it works well. For the last two, the same thing.

You can't just go in and go, "Oh if I can get xxxxx to sleep with me, that means their partner doesn't deserve them. I'm not doing anything wrong."

Cliche, but think of it from the affected party's point of view. Would you want your wife cheating on you?

[naut]

By God does being a jackass work, but I don't like doing so since it makes me feel dirty.

As an aside I have a friend who uses the Metro/Gay angle to pick up women, which is hilarious. Paisley shirts, gay voice, gay mannerisms, etc, and he'll always go home with something/someone. Last night was a prime example of that, (and brings me back on topic) where I was talking to a girl he hooked up with before but currently has a boyfriend. She told me she wouldn't tell him about her boyfriend and lead him on then reject him because he's gross. And as the night went on he was hitting on anything that moved, but mostly her and it was obvious that she was lying about rejecting him. And sure enough they leave for 15 minutes. Whose fault is it here? My friend for being an absolute sleaze bag or the girl for lying and cheating on her boyfriend?

Whatever the case, I'm making sure that I keep my wimmin away from Frag. :laugh4:

[Fragony]

Who cares why she cheats Pevergreen, not my problem, nor is it my responsibility, that is all on her. What a old fashioned and sexist image of women you guys have, women like sex just as much as men , there is more to it then baking cakes.

[pevergreen]

Oh I dont deny that Frag, I was giving it more than I wanted in my last relationship. But I'm saying if you knowingly are part of someone cheating, you should take back and see the other side of what you are doing.

[Fragony]

Oh I dont deny that Frag, I was giving it more than I wanted in my last relationship. But I'm saying if you knowingly are part of someone cheating, you should take back and see the other side of what you are doing.

I am not doing anything wrong when I sleep with a commited honey, just making the best out of it. If that wrecks her relation, too bad thanks for the memories. If it wasn't me it would have been someone else. If I seduced your girlfriend would you be angry at me? I didn't cheat on you, your girlfriend did, I am nothing to you and you are nothing to me, your girl is fair game to me.

[pevergreen]

I think it varies from culture to culture. Its against the mates code in Australia. Would I be angry at you? Yes, but if I was then told you didnt know she was with me, I would forgive you. Her, on the other hand.

She forgave me though...

[Fragony]

I think it varies from culture to culture. Its against the mates code in Australia. Would I be angry at you? Yes, but if I was then told you didnt know she was with me, I would forgive you. Her, on the other hand.

She forgave me though...

Owww you naughty. It's against mate culture here as well, I would never sleep with a girlfriend of a friend but the decency ends there. I take what I can get.

[pevergreen]

I'm not saying because its a friend, I'm saying because everyone is your mate. Its common courtesy as well. I don't go around gallavanting with your sister or mother do I? :laugh4:

Wait..that wasn't funny. I'm gunna go back to DotA now...

[Husar]

Fragony, if they want no commitment they should not marry, if you made a contract to buy a car and they'd sell it to someone else after you paid, wouldn't you feel a bit weird about that?
Also that isn't sexist at all because if a man cheats on his wife it is just as wrong.

[Craterus]

Few posts before I explained why it is. cheating is a selfish act and a relationship is based on giving away some of that selfishness. There's not just black and white, it's a mix of both. And if the happiness is spread to both, is it not a greater gain than if only one person becomes happier?

...

Fragony, if they want no commitment they should not marry, if you made a contract to buy a car and they'd sell it to someone else after you paid, wouldn't you feel a bit weird about that?
Also that isn't sexist at all because if a man cheats on his wife it is just as wrong.

So, relationships are essentially a contract of mutual benefits? You give up some of your freedom in return for someone to listen to your :daisy:, and them the same. And ownership of the other person, apparently.

[Dîn-Heru]

So, relationships are essentially a contract of mutual benefits? You give up some of your freedom in return for someone to listen to your :daisy:, and them the same. And ownership of the other person, apparently.

I would not say ownership, but unless otherwise agreed, sexual fidelity is the price you pay in order to be in a relationship. Infidelity is basically the same as reneging on a promise, a breach of the contract.

[Koga No Goshi]

I am not doing anything wrong when I sleep with a commited honey, just making the best out of it. If that wrecks her relation, too bad thanks for the memories. If it wasn't me it would have been someone else. If I seduced your girlfriend would you be angry at me? I didn't cheat on you, your girlfriend did, I am nothing to you and you are nothing to me, your girl is fair game to me.

Nothing legally wrong with it, agreed.

But it underlines the selfish, what's good for me first, total lack of ethics which explains pretty much your viewpoint on every issue.

The point is not "would her boyfriend have a right to direct all the anger at his girlfriend cheating at you." The point is what kind of scumbag intentionally goes after a woman knowing in advance that she's taken, with some kind of lame 11 year old justification for it like "your girl is fair game to me."

[Koga No Goshi]

No idea what the left/right has to do with any of this. If it is a matter of decency, good for you, but mr Fragony isn't going to turn down a hot woman. That's rude. If she has a husband, he doesn't own her/should have bought her more flowers.

It was off topic. The left/right just came up because of people ribbing me that they were surprised I was sounding like "their side" (the right) now.

[Husar]

I would not say ownership, but unless otherwise agreed, sexual fidelity is the price you pay in order to be in a relationship. Infidelity is basically the same as reneging on a promise, a breach of the contract.

Exactly.

[ICantSpellDawg]

It was off topic. The left/right just came up because of people ribbing me that they were surprised I was sounding like "their side" (the right) now.

It isn't really that. All too often individuals get it into their minds that just because something is no longer illegal must mean that it is no longer wrong. They take the fact that they won't be prosecuted to mean that it is a right that should be utilized.

Too often people adopt the law as their own morality - you haven't, so I'm impressed.

[Koga No Goshi]

It isn't really that. All too often individuals get it into their minds that just because something is no longer illegal must mean that it is no longer wrong. They take the fact that they won't be prosecuted to mean that it is a right that should be utilized.

Too often people adopt the law as their own morality - you haven't, so I'm impressed.

I think what we're discussing are opportunistic, amoral mindsets of "I'll do anything that benefits me as long as I can get away with it." A... predatory mindset, more or less. I agree with you that people who need the law to be their moral compass are pretty bad off to begin with. You can be a law-abiding citizen of your country and still be a very immoral person. It just comes down to how much is legal and how much wiggle room there is to profit yourself by harming others while staying within the confines of legal activity.

This might surprise you, Tuff, but I think of abortion as a really horrible thing. In fact, you will hear that quite frequently from people on the left. You will frequently hear it from women who've had them. But, I also consider hunting animals with gunpowder weaponry for sport to be cowardly and unnecessary, I consider alcohol to be a very negative thing overall (at the very least it never has any true beneficial effects when people drink it to excess). But based upon the issue in question I may believe it's a greater evil or will result in more harm to ban something, or will create an endless, difficult to execute legal dilemma which will cost much more than any arguable benefit from outlawing it. We learned that with prohibition, for example. So no... as I argued with Redleg once about why I don't have stripped down pure Constitution views of how our government should work, I do not believe anyone should ever submit their sense of right and wrong to the confines of what's legal (or Constitutional) and what isn't. If somehow hard science proved that white people were not fully human and a constitutionally-supportable law existed to enslave them, it would still be wrong to do so. (Just as a wild example.)

[SwordsMaster]

To avoid debating morals too deeply here, and in response to Kadagar's original post:

I kind of found myself in a similar situation when I began my 2nd year of college. I had just arrived to a new country, on my own, and could reinvent myself. I wasn't really unsuccessful with women before, but I was much more comfortable in my new skin, and that transpired to everyone around me.

Now, because of my job - which has recently cost me a long relationship - I travel a LOT, which sort of leads to a "girl in every port" mentality. Which isn't bad, but it is shallow. If I know I'll be somewhere for a month, there is no point in establishing deep relationships. Which again, kind of makes me lose faith in "love" and lasting peace and quiet. That is on one hand. On the other I love my lifestyle, travelling and not settling down, and I have no intention of changing it until I feel spent, which I think is still quite far away. I wonder what female in her right mind would actually bum around the world with me for any significant period of time....

In any case, what I have realised is that men and women are just men and women, and despite cultural differences are strikingly similar everywhere, from Russia to South Africa and from Nigeria to the US, and that there is nothing right or wrong about it. I'm not advocating cheating here, but casual consensual sex between adults that are being honest about it has absolutely no moral anchor in my head.

[Rhyfelwyr]

This might surprise you, Tuff, but I think of abortion as a really horrible thing. In fact, you will hear that quite frequently from people on the left. You will frequently hear it from women who've had them.

Same here. I was always opposed to abortion before I adopted religious values, and I've always been left-wing.


But, I also consider hunting animals with gunpowder weaponry for sport to be cowardly and unnecessary, I consider alcohol to be a very negative thing overall (at the very least it never has any true beneficial effects when people drink it to excess).

Same here again. Fox hunting etc is disgusting, slavery is a tradition too but it doesn't mean it should be allowed.

The ILP used to have strong temperance ideals, drink is what kept the working-class oppressed. But Irish immigration saw an end to that policy.


But based upon the issue in question I may believe it's a greater evil or will result in more harm to ban something, or will create an endless, difficult to execute legal dilemma which will cost much more than any arguable benefit from outlawing it. We learned that with prohibition, for example. So no... as I argued with Redleg once about why I don't have stripped down pure Constitution views of how our government should work, I do not believe anyone should ever submit their sense of right and wrong to the confines of what's legal (or Constitutional) and what isn't. If somehow hard science proved that white people were not fully human and a constitutionally-supportable law existed to enslave them, it would still be wrong to do so. (Just as a wild example.)

I'm agreeing with you too much I can't cope with this after you were my arch-nemesis in the other thread...

[Koga No Goshi]

I'm agreeing with you too much I can't cope with this after you were my arch-nemesis in the other thread...

Haha, well, I never considered us arch-nemeses, but I suppose at least in that one thread yeah we were pretty polar opposite.

I believe the whole point of a free society is to be able to separate out legal/civic "right" and moral/religious "right." If I disagree with a religious person that there should be a law against something, it doesn't mean I think that something is a good thing. It just means that I feel there is insufficient basis for one opinion to make that the binding law for everyone, or that the cure is more harmful than the illness. This is one of the fundamental differences between left and right that people on the right frequently can't understand about people on the left. Abortion is the best possible example I can think of. We get called "pro abortion" or "pro infanticide" or "pro death." I doubt you could scrounge up more than 1% of the left who feels happy about abortions and thinks every woman should have one. The reasons for supporting pro-choice have more to do with reproductive choice for women and not legally mandating that children be born into unwanted families and poverty and unfit homes and also simply not believing that it is something the government should insert its arm into controlling. (Some restrictions and regulation are okay of course.) But very often people on the right, because their sense of what the law should look like being influenced by their religious views or moral views, frequently seem unable to understand that no, we're not "pro-abortion", but we still think it's something that should be legal and available. (To me the argument is similar to calling someone who agrees condoms should be sold legally as "pro-fornication.")

[yesdachi]

I skipped a few pages of reading but I will give my 2 cents.

Casual sex can be fun and under the right circumstances could be a lot of fun but a triple digit scorecard is beyond “casual” sex. If you really want to find a meaningful relationship you should find a job where you are not expected to put-out for every horny snowbunny who stops by. Constantly having temptation from women that don’t want you for anything but a good ride isn’t a way to find a good relationship.

I say, have sex, lots of sex but not with lots of partners. I would also leave the married ones alone unless they are really really hot~D, if you are looking for a meaningful relationship I wouldn’t even associate with married women, they are not available for anything except sex.

You have started over once; maybe it is time to start over again.

[Koga No Goshi]

I skipped a few pages of reading but I will give my 2 cents.

Casual sex can be fun and under the right circumstances could be a lot of fun but a triple digit scorecard is beyond “casual” sex. If you really want to find a meaningful relationship you should find a job where you are not expected to put-out for every horny snowbunny who stops by. Constantly having temptation from women that don’t want you for anything but a good ride isn’t a way to find a good relationship.

I say, have sex, lots of sex but not with lots of partners. I would also leave the married ones alone unless they are really really hot~D, if you are looking for a meaningful relationship I wouldn’t even associate with married women, they are not available for anything except sex.

You have started over once; maybe it is time to start over again.

Agreed with yesdachi. Casual sex is like 1-3 girls in between one relationship and the next one. Not 100, 110, 140...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Agreed with yesdachi. Casual sex is like 1-3 girls in between one relationship and the next one. Not 100, 110, 140...

I never thought that "casual" could be defined numerically.....

Do we define someone as a prostitute if the service provided costs $40 but a something different if the charge is $4,000?

I don't think you provide a morally consistent (or for that matter practically consistent) answer if you say its good to have a few meaningless sexual encounters, but if you're on your 4th tryst then its suddenly a bad thing.

Is it okay if I rob two banks (FDIC insured customers only, I don't want to really harm someone) but I'll get bastinadoed if I pull the third job?

[Koga No Goshi]

I never thought that "casual" could be defined numerically.....

Do we define someone as a prostitute if the service provided costs $40 but a something different if the charge is $4,000?

I don't think you provide a morally consistent (or for that matter practically consistent) answer if you say its good to have a few meaningless sexual encounters, but if you're on your 4th tryst then its suddenly a bad thing.

Is it okay if I rob two banks (FDIC insured customers only, I don't want to really harm someone) but I'll get bastinadoed if I pull the third job?

It's like saying you're a casual drinker but you drink 3 bottles of vodka a night.

You can still do that while at social events, eating dinner, etc. The normal parameters for "casual drinking."

But drinking 3 bottles a night isn't casual.

In other words, yes, casual sex is just casual sex. But when you're talking about a 5, 10, 15 year trend of nothing but casual sex and mounting up hundreds of sexual victories, we're talking less about casual sex and more about some kind of social or pscyhological issue... be it compulsivity, inability to form relationships, something.

[yesdachi]

It's like saying you're a casual drinker but you drink 3 bottles of vodka a night.

Nice analogy.

[Strike For The South]

For the record I dont know anyone who drinks 3 bottles a night and if I ever met the man I would promptly hand over my goods because that would be freaking epic. Imagine 21 bottles a week 84 bottles a month 1008 bottles a year!...EPIC

It would be even better if it were a chick

[Koga No Goshi]

For the record I dont know anyone who drinks 3 bottles a night and if I ever met the man I would promptly hand over my goods because that would be freaking epic. Imagine 21 bottles a week 84 bottles a month 1008 bottles a year!...EPIC

It would be even better if it were a chick

I was going to amend my statement and say "you can't drink 3 bottles a night and be a casual drinker, unless you're Texan." ;)

[Papewaio]

Who cares why she cheats Pevergreen, not my problem, nor is it my responsibility, that is all on her. What a old fashioned and sexist image of women you guys have, women like sex just as much as men , there is more to it then baking cakes.

Crimes of passion... normally the competitor comes off worse. Its a gene thing. The person of the same sex can't have a child with you so they see you as competition. All is fair in love and war, and the war of love is never fair. Sure it ain't your responsibility but don't cry if you get burnt putting your hands into flame. A women who is cheated on will quite off attack the other women not the man, and the same for men.

Also what happens if you do knock her up and she leaves her husband/boyfriend for you. Think about it. You now have a child to someone who cheated on their previous partner, what are the odds that you might end up being cuckolded too?

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Do we define someone as a prostitute if the service provided costs $40 but a something different if the charge is $4,000?

Yes. At $4000, she becomes an escort. ~;)

[Decker]

Where is Kad?? Been waiting for his answer on some of your discussion... though I don't agree with what he is/was doing... I do think that he brings a VERY interesting perspective to the thread he started...

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[LittleGrizzly]

I once heard that if you, at a bar, ask 20 girls straight up if they want sex, one is bound to say yes. I didnt believe it untill I saw him.

I have always wondered what factors there could be in this..... its not something anyone could do...

Looks, confidence to ask, material wealth.... and then depending on the 20 girls you ask

So is bradd pitt asking a bunch of homeless girls or the hunchbackof notre dame bagging himself marilyn monroe...

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[LittleGrizzly]

and the hunchback asking girls from Texas:)

:laugh: ohh you wait til SFTS and the fat frenchman (with a thing for all things texan!) see this...

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Honestly, I'm probably in the same boat as Rhyfwlyr here. So I can't really pass judgement.

That said, personally I believe that Kadagar you have been acting in a manner so far from what is morally acceptable to most that I am justified in pronouncing myself disgusted.

Similarly to Melendil, and apparently Kadagar himself, I'm currently the shy, nice, intellectual, confidence-lacking 'best friend', to many of the girls I know. And I can't bring myself to treat a girl badly for any reason. I'm not against having a bit of fun, and two adults can do what they want....

But there is a thing called morality, which should, theoretically, prevent someone from banging married women, including a honeymooner, to satisfy his ego.

[Andres]

Kadagar_AV, I simply do not understand how you cannot see your responsabilities and how you cannot feel guilty.

You slept around with married women (some of them with children) or women who were in a steady relationship. Do you sincerely believe that this has not caused harm or pain?

Face it : your behaviour has ruined lifes (including the youth of some children).

In my humble opinion, the fact that you don't accept responsability for this, has only two explanations:

a) you do not have a conscience and you are a bad person;
b) you know pretty damn well what you have done and how guilty you are, but you're not ready yet to admit it to yourself, because you are not able to deal with it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

In my humble opinion, the fact that you don't accept responsability for this, has only two explanations:

a) you do not have a conscience and you are a bad person;
b) you know pretty damn well what you have done and how guilty you are, but you're not ready yet to admit it to yourself, because you are not able to deal with it.

There is the third possibility:

c) no-one gets hurt in fantasies.

~:rolleyes: this thread.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Kralizec]

I'd make a distinction between a married woman who had no intentions of cheating from the outset but who's seduced, and a married woman who goes looking for action and later return to the husband as if nothing happened.
In the first case I'd say that the guy is at fault for ruining the marriage if it comes to that, but primary fault lies still with the woman. In the second case I don't think you can say that the guy ruined the relationship in any way. I think most woman fall into the first catagory; ski trips might be different in that regard :shrug:

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Hosakawa Tito]

There is the third possibility:

c) no-one gets hurt in fantasies.

~:rolleyes: this thread.

Yes, someone has been taking those porn magazine stories to heart. Now, where did I put those hip-boots...

[Kadagar_AV]

Yes, someone has been taking those porn magazine stories to heart. Now, where did I put those hip-boots...

Your point is that girls dont like sex, and married women don't cheat on their husbands?

[KukriKhan]

Where I live, in a small resort, this moral is the norm. having sex with people who has girlfriends/boyfriends, wife or husband is common practise here, and nothing that is frowned upon, or even much talked about.

That part surprises me a bit. So it works both ways in Kadagar-land: female ski instructors, bartenders, etc, who routinely sleep with their married male patrons/customers carry no burden of public shame? Such behavior elsewhere would, you must admit, result in some pretty bad names being applied to such folks.

Does Austria have free medical care? Are resort personnel routinely checked for STDs? Does Resort Management condone and/or encourage this "service", or just look the other way? Are ski instructors independent contractors, or resort employees?

Finally, I assume Austia no longer has laws prohibiting fornication and adultery?

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Fragony]

There is the third possibility:

c) no-one gets hurt in fantasies.

~:rolleyes: this thread.

Good point in reality I have to type this message with me nose, and Fragony isn't even my real name. COMMON he is a ski instructor it's a greater achievement to not sleep with a married wife then doing so. If they hunt for you why not make the best of it this is a truly amazing thread.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Koga No Goshi]

Jokes aside though, I would be surprised if their partner found out. Again, I think the families will just notice that mommy was very happy after her vacation, and it took her as long as half a year to get back to the anti-depressive pills she eats to stand her boring life and husband.

LOL we hold a high opinion of ourselves, don't we?

[Papewaio]

Papewaio,

Now that is just stupid. I have no idea what neanderthal cave you grew up in, but I have yet to see that happen. Again: there is a difference if it is a close friend or something, but to be more pissed at the third part if it is some stranger you have never seen?

I mean, if I had met the husband I could never ever have sex with the wife... But if it's someone I have no idea who it is, and he lives 500 miles away, then meh. So in a hypotethical scenario where your wife had sex with the ski instructor, you would let her off the hook and go to Austria with a baseball bat? Or what?



a) I said it was a crime at the start of my post.

b) I was referring to those who are cheated on get angry often incorrectly with not the cheater but the competitor. There are plenty of headlines in newspapers of people attacking someone for being the said competitor.

c) No where in my post do I condone either the competitor getting attacked nor the competitor witlessly initiating the risk. We live in a society as such those who choose to live for themselves often find out that warning signs are not just for show. It doesn't make the crime of passion (ie the spouse hunting you down) okay, just avoidable.

d) Every action has results. If you don't like the results change the actions. So if you aren't happy, change the action.

e) The pursuit of happiness should not be denied in the pursuit of pleasure.

f) My great grandfather was a ships captain and had multiple families across the pacific. What a naughty Swede he was too. :yes: Was no real surprise when we found that out given the rest of the family.

g) My dad grew up in a resort owned by my grandfather. He and his siblings had access to yachts, speed boats, skiing (on liquid water), all were fit and have blue eyes like the sky. And a fairly unlimited supply of women on tap. Now I assume like you it was because the women were on holidays at a resort. None of them were happy with the end result of those types of women. And all their lasting relationships have been with no-nonsense, intelligent and communicative women who would never put up with them cheating nor look well upon that lifestyle.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

@ Kadagar: Just to point out that I clearly clarified that original statement. Go back and read it properly.

Then again if you haven't changed your tune after what all these other, infinitely more eloquent and more qualifed people have said, then it clearly isn't worth my time.

[Ja'chyra]

I can't believe that this thread is still going, had your ego stroked enough?

You, sir, have made the blocked list and are the one and only member, congratulations.

I could say more but I'd probably get banned, but as they say in Hot Fuzz, jog on.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Fragony]

Nor am I stroking my ego... As I have written, my lifestyle has made me lose belief in love. How is that a positive thing?

No need for that, much of great women out there you just meet them in exceptional conditions, on holiday, out for adventure. I can understand that you see women as sluts because in these exceptional situation they behave like one. Sex and love are two different things, and all the better when they complement eachother it is much nicer with a girl you really like, in the end the best part of making love is falling asleep together and a genuine smile when you wake up.

[InsaneApache]

When I was a teenager I played bass in a punk rock band. The girls were all over us and we loved it. (as you do :wink:)

I had a lot of casual sex and at that time it was great. Fragony's nailed it though. It sounds a cliche but sex without love is like eating a boiled egg without salt and pepper on. It still a boiled egg but not quite as nice.

[Louis VI the Fat]

When I was a teenager I played bass in a punk rock band. The girls were all over us and we loved it.

I had a lot of casual sex and at that time it was great. I can just picture a young Apache: 'Oi! Gals! Never mind my bollocks, check out my sex pistol!'

[Hosakawa Tito]

Some people are just destined to be a love machine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFdsnmQHn4&feature=related)

[KukriKhan]

The Opening Poster having abandoned his thread (and reportedly his org membership) we'll close this thread.

Thanks for all contributions. :bow: