Left Handed Units?

[Ozzman1O1]

I know this isnt a very important topic,but isnt it unrealistic in past tw games when EVERYONE is holding their sheild in the same hand,will we see the same thing with muskets?It wont at all affect the game but i was just wondering....(look at all the right handed smiles:smash::oops::help::404::faq::logic:

[Sir Beane]

Given how all of the units are the same height and have exactly the same face?

Not a chance I'm afraid. Seems a shame, but CA probably have higher priorities than unit variation what with the new fancy engine. Maybe look out for more variation on the 'Evolution' phase of their development cycle, which I assume is the next game coming to us from CA Australia.

[Calmarac]

Well, I don't think they even made separate patterns for left and right hand shoes in the Eighteenth century, let alone cater for subversive individualty in the ranks such as left handed soldiery.

Muskets were mass produced on production lines to a pattern with the firing lock on the right. You'd have to shoot 'right handed' with the stock in your right shoulder, to avoid burning your face off from the pan flash. You would load and shoot the piece the way you were drilled to, exactly the same as everybody else, and I doubt the RSM would be too sympathetic to suggestions it was awkward or uncomfortable :whip:

And consider being in the front rank of a 3 deep firing line where some of the rear rankers might be firing left handed, or not :dizzy2:

Actually this is one military era where I'd like to see more uniformity and less individuality in the models. I don't want to see several colours for the breeches or different arrangements of equipment belts etc. At least not for the formal European wars. I could even cope with identical white wigs and standardised moustaches for the Grenadier units. Of all the periods TW has covered, the 18C would suit battalions of Clones without detracting from the look of the thing. But then again I'm just an old miniatures gamer...

[Fisherking]

So we won‘t find it in this game but….

Left-handedness and intelligence
In his book Right-Hand, Left-Hand, Chris McManus of University College London argues that the proportion of left-handers is rising and left-handed people as a group have historically produced an above-average quota of high achievers. He says that left-handers' brains are structured differently in a way that widens their range of abilities, and the genes that determine left-handedness also govern development of the language centers of the brain.
McManus also says that the increase in the 20th century of people identifying as left-handed could produce a corresponding intellectual advance and a leap in the number of mathematical, sporting, or artistic geniuses.
In 2006, researchers at Lafayette College and Johns Hopkins University in a study found that left-handed men are 15 percent richer than right-handed men for those who attended college, and 26 percent richer if they graduated. The wage difference is still unexplainable and does not appear to apply to women


However
Left-handers suffered severe prejudice during the 18th and 19th centuries and it was often "beaten out" of people

A few famous lefties:
Alexander the Great
Charlemagne, Holy Roman emperor
Julius Caesar, Roman general
Napoléon Bonaparte (?), French emperor
King Louis XVI of France
King George II of England


Take that you right handed conformists!:smash:

[Sheogorath]

Even if a person was left handed, he would probably be required to hold his musket in a right-handed fashion. Uniformity was big in this era.

Although I think I saw somewhere that one country had a 'left-handed' regiment. Prussia, maybe. Crazy Germans always go for the gimmick units ;)

[Jack Lusted]

Yes armies in the 18th century were not exactly accomodating to us lefties.

[General SupaCrunk]

Im left handed!

[Noncommunist]

:2thumbsup: So am I

[Belgolas]

Well this this era there really aren't muskets desined for lefties. Nor during the Roman time period were there soldiers in a legion that could have their shield in their right hand. There is no way for a good testuto formation or a phalanx with left handers.

Oh and there are probably more lefties now then back then because now if you are left handed you are not persecuted.

[fenir]

I use both, My right generally for signing, and my left for writing.

That makes me twice as good than you all...........:laugh4:


Seriously though, always treat all surveys with distain. Until you can see how they constructed them, and how they qauntified them.

And not all left handers where persectued, some yes, but certainly not in general. Otherwise you wouldn't have the names you have above.

List of famous right handers............

too many.


Sincerely

fenir

[seireikhaan]

A few famous lefties:
Alexander the Great
Charlemagne, Holy Roman emperor
Julius Caesar, Roman general
Napoléon Bonaparte (?), French emperor
King Louis XVI of France
King George II of England


Take that you right handed conformists!:smash:
You forgot perhaps one of history's most brilliant men, Leo De Vinci.

[Fisherking]

You forgot perhaps one of history's most brilliant men, Leo De Vinci.

I didn’t try to make it a comprehensive list. Just a few that almost everyone would know. I left out Queen Victoria too, and Jack the Ripper.:shame:

Clinton & Bush 1 were there too.:sorry2:

[Husar]

The less lefties there are the more I feel special commanding them around with my left hand. ~D

[Fisherking]

Long, long ago when books were bought in shops and there was no net, I read a piece that said that the Romans, being the sly foxes they were, had left-handed cohorts for their flanks.

In combat all of those right handed men drifted to the right. The cohort on the right stopped this from happening and the one on the left could more easily turn the flank of the enemy.

I don’t know that this was a common practice, it was just written.

[Arcana]

I doubt they'd have a lefty unit (to be honest, being a lefty myself, I'd spam that unit! :P), especially considering how much of a stigma it's presented throughout history. Note how 'right' is also synonymous for 'correct'. This is true in most languages even now.

In any case, CA are unlikely to go to that much trouble. But it would be cool.

[Lorenzo_H]

I would give my right arm to be a lefty.

[PBI]

Long, long ago when books were bought in shops and there was no net, I read a piece that said that the Romans, being the sly foxes they were, had left-handed cohorts for their flanks.

In combat all of those right handed men drifted to the right. The cohort on the right stopped this from happening and the one on the left could more easily turn the flank of the enemy.

I don’t know that this was a common practice, it was just written.

I always wondered about this; why didn't the Greeks, aware that the right flank of a phalanx would be weaker due to the shields being on the wrong side, simply form a unit of left-handed spearmen to hold the right flank?

Similarly, in medieval castles, spiral staircases were designed to favour the defenders in a swordfight, since a right-handed swordsman climbing the stairs would have his swing blocked by the the central column; why didn't an attacking army form a special unit of left-handed swordsmen just for taking stairwells?

I suppose it might not have made an enormous difference, and I suppose by the time soldiers were fighting on staircases the siege was probably nearly over anyway, but it always bugged me.

[Sir Beane]

I always wondered about this; why didn't the Greeks, aware that the right flank of a phalanx would be weaker due to the shields being on the wrong side, simply form a unit of left-handed spearmen to hold the right flank?

Similarly, in medieval castles, spiral staircases were designed to favour the defenders in a swordfight, since a right-handed swordsman climbing the stairs would have his swing blocked by the the central column; why didn't an attacking army form a special unit of left-handed swordsmen just for taking stairwells?

I suppose it might not have made an enormous difference, and I suppose by the time soldiers were fighting on staircases the siege was probably nearly over anyway, but it always bugged me.

Due to the stigma attached to being left handed back then it might have been hard to get volunteers for your specialist unit.

Old words for right and left are Dexter (Right) and Sinister (left obviously). Sinister eventually also came to mean what it does now, something menacing or evil.

With that kind of prejudice it's no wonder left handed types did their best to avoid getting noticed. :laugh4:

[PBI]

Still though, I'd be surprised if a social prejudice would be enough to make people keep putting themselves at a clear military disadvantage. If for no other reason, there's a fairly obvious natural selection process going on here. Basically, you would imagine that armies prejudiced against accomodating left-handed soldiers would become extinct fairly quickly, just like armies with a prejudice against using gunpowder or letting commoners join.

[Sir Beane]

Still though, I'd be surprised if a social prejudice would be enough to make people keep putting themselves at a clear military disadvantage. If for no other reason, there's a fairly obvious natural selection process going on here. Basically, you would imagine that armies prejudiced against accomodating left-handed soldiers would become extinct fairly quickly, just like armies with a prejudice against using gunpowder or letting commoners join.

I think that sort of evolution would only occur if welcoming left handed soldiers put you at a clear advantage. While you might gain a small situational advantage on spiral staircases or a small defensive bonus while protecting a phalanx, I doubt it would be enough to win a battle by itself.

The fact that it simply didn't happen historically (or at least not very commonly) must mean that it probably didn't offer a significant advantage.

Similarly you would think allowing women to join your forces would give you a huge advantage in numbers over an enemy force, but it very rarely happaned. And there are a LOT more women than there are left handed people.

[Sheogorath]

My general impression is that lefties were not FORBIDDEN from joining the army, indeed, several armies (the Russians come to mind) essentially took anybody they could get their recruiters could get their hands on (except Jews, who were allowed to buy their way out...yes, this is really true.)
Lefties would simply be trained exactly the same as righties. Performance wouldn't matter and, as mentioned, left-handed habits would simply be beaten out of them.

On a side note, why does Firefox give me a spelling error for 'righties' but not for 'lefties'?
I call conspiracy.

[Fisherking]

On a side note, why does Firefox give me a spelling error for 'righties' but not for 'lefties'?
I call conspiracy.


Actually it was an error in terminology. Properly it is right-handedness or right-handed half wits. I believe the second the most correct.
:clown:

[Megas Methuselah]

Lefties are the spawn of the devil.


Yes armies in the 18th century were not exactly accomodating to us lefties.

Praise Gawd!

[Sir Beane]

Who knew there were so many left handed people about these days? If I had known I would have bought better locks. I kid, I kid. It isn't like I blame you for being left handed, after all you were born that way. Maybe one day they might find a cure. :laugh4:

Left handed people must be one of the few groups a man can insult nowadays without being too politically incorrect. Them and the gingers.

Also I hope all you left handed types realise I'm joking. I don't want you using evil magiks to kill me in my sleep. :bow: (Still joking, please don't take me seriously)

[caravel]

Who knew there were so many left handed people about these days? If I had known I would have bought better locks. I kid, I kid. It isn't like I blame you for being left handed, after all you were born that way. Maybe one day they might find a cure. :laugh4:

Left handed people must be one of the few groups a man can insult nowadays without being too politically incorrect. Them and the gingers.

Also I hope all you left handed types realise I'm joking. I don't want you using evil magiks to kill me in my sleep. :bow: (Still joking, please don't take me seriously)

It's not the left handed types you have to worry about... we happen to have a ginger haired super assassin moderator here at the .org so be careful....

:creep:

[peacemaker]

personally, i prefer the army of clones. it just looks more professional-army like. The only time i like variety in the unit skins is a)the teutonic order in m2tw kingdoms(those helmets are awesome) or barbarians(rtw) or highlanders(scotts m2tw). i just find it cooler with an army of clones

[Sir Beane]

It's not the left handed types you have to worry about... we happen to have a ginger haired super assassin moderator here at the .org so be careful....

:creep:

I offer a tribute of four roast oxen to the mighty moderation team! Please don't have me 'disappeared' guys!

*A small note. The oxen are digital e-oxen. Flavour and texture may not be the same as that of real oxen. I cannot be held responsible for the quality of any tribute you may choose to consume. Don't worry though, there has only been one case of dysentry as a result of e-oxen in the last month!.*

[Sheogorath]

personally, i prefer the army of clones. it just looks more professional-army like. The only time i like variety in the unit skins is a)the teutonic order in m2tw kingdoms(those helmets are awesome) or barbarians(rtw) or highlanders(scotts m2tw). i just find it cooler with an army of clones

It makes sense, giving the period. Men were organized by height, regiments had specific types of facial hair (straight mustaches, downturned mustaches, upturned mustaches...the list goes on.), and, in general, the goal was to make everybody in a specific unit look as much like each other as possible within the professional armies.

[rabcarl]

Off-topic but the Viking berserkers were trained to use their left hands to gain an advantage over the right-handed opponents as they would have to fight across their bodies.

[Sheogorath]

I was under the impression that Viking berserkers pretty much hit their opponent with everything they could think of as frequently as possible :P

[Oleander Ardens]

Well only right is right and left is best left because truly harmful is dexterity in sinister hands... :bow:

:clown:

[PBI]

It makes sense, giving the period. Men were organized by height, regiments had specific types of facial hair (straight mustaches, downturned mustaches, upturned mustaches...the list goes on.), and, in general, the goal was to make everybody in a specific unit look as much like each other as possible within the professional armies.

I personally very much hope that some of the more outlandish facial hair types will be researcheable high-end technologies, giving units the "scares enemies" ability. I know for a fact I would think twice before engaging a formation of men sporting full-blown mutton chops.

[Fisherking]

Left-handedness is caused by a higher testosterone level…hence the girly-men’s attempt at suppressing it.

You would likely only find left-handed guns among rifle militia where aiming is important and they brought their own!

And I agree that mutton chops are scary! But there were other scary styles in this era…or just after it actually…I remember an incident of someone being shunned because he sported a beard just after the War of 1812...so that could be a predigest too.