Chicago Soirée [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 2

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Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 13:37

Hmmm... Voting for me when I am bound to get lynched anyway eventually, when I wasn't even here for the first two phases, when I am generating discussion.

Interesting strategy, TinCow. Could it be you're a little nervous that my aggressive investigation would have focused on you eventually, and you'd like to ensure I can't vote for the rest of the game?

I understand I'm a suspect and by no means cleared, and you're entitled to your choice, but I obviously don't like your reasons for voting me. This is how I always behave as a townie, and anyone with any passing interest in my style of play knows that.

And in case it isn't self-evident, what I am doing and what I have been doing since I began this game is not "scumtastic". There is no way to tell whether I am town or mafia from my recent posting behavior and you should know that, mister veteran. It's a logical fallacy you're spouting, there sir.

boudica

01-15-2009, 13:41

I will give you time to make up your mind before I hastily vote you. But unless people give a solid excuse for not voting, I will chalk it up to mafia avoiding the Wrath of Khaan. I think that's fair enough reasoning apart from the fact that I don't actually think Khaan is about to cull half of town for failing to step up to the plate and face a 90 mph ATPG harranguing :laugh4:

Reading back through the thread the only thing that rattled my intuition anywhere near as much as your behaviour, was Beefyz comment "Cant afford to miss a opportunity where I can vote for someone with valid reason "

But as he originally made the comment about bandwaggoning I'm not going to jump on him with a vote either. My vote will stay as abstain for now.

Andres: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Lord Winter)
GeneralHankerchief: 2 (Reenk Roink, Andres)
Taka: 2 (Askthepizzaguy, Beefy)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (Sigurd, TinCow)
Lord Winter: 1 (Taka)
Abstain: 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Boudica)

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 13:41

I'm well aware of the OMGUS implications, but what it basically comes down to is whether people trust me or TinCow more in this situation. I am willing to break with tradition and common playing style, because mine is still developing, and I've never been very cautious with my own life.

Unless you give a more substantial case against me TinCow, I'm challenging you.

Unvote: Taka
Vote: TinCow

TevashSzat

01-15-2009, 13:51

Well, I had just written a long and half insightful post before I accidentally closed my tab and lost everything.

Basically, what I thought was that

1)looking at ATPG's behavior this game will only lead to WIFOM
2)The evidence against Andres does not seem very damning at all
3)GH started the bandwagon against "lynchbait" Andres himself

Thus, I will Vote:GH because his only voting post doesn't seem all that right from him.

Tally:

GeneralHankerchief: 3 (Reenk Roink, Andres, Tevash)

Andres: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Lord Winter)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (Sigurd, TinCow)

Taka: 1 (Beefy)
Tincow: 1 (ATPG)
Lord Winter: 1 (Taka)
Abstain: 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Boudica)

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 13:58

It's rather obvious that the more I talk, the closer I get to being lynched. One could argue that it's a WIFOM strategy, however the track record is I've died in every single game I've done this. So I'm crazy or stupid to keep going. Or, maybe... a townie???

But... but... that's a WIFOM defense!

All people have on me so far is a WIFOM argument. That warrants a WIFOM defense. And if the only case that can be made against me is a WIFOM, it's a bad case, and shouldn't even be made in the first place, TinCow.

:whip:

I propose you lynch both me and TinCow. Starting with me.

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 14:04

Wither art thou, TinCow? Darest thee not respond to my allegations that your case against me is full of... carp?

Surely you didn't post an accuse against me and then scamper away like a coward????

GET BACK HERE!!!

Andres

01-15-2009, 14:06

Vote: ATPG

Throwing his weight around like crazy. Changing votes constantly. Accusing pretty much everyone in the game, including himself. Does it get more scummy than that?

Well, it makes people talk, doesn't it?

I propose you lynch both me and TinCow. Starting with me.

The "starting with me" part is not good.

:inquisitive:

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 14:12

Technically, no, it's not. But proposing he die first could be interpreted as scummy behavior that keeps me around another round.

It's basically up to you who dies first. I've challenged him in a PM to come back here.

And I made it clear my comments were intended in the playful sense, too. I'm not that much of a :daisy:, TinCow is my friend, just so everyone knows.

Andres

01-15-2009, 14:24

Technically, no, it's not. But proposing he die first could be interpreted as scummy behavior that keeps me around another round.

Hmmm... Interesting.

It's basically up to you who dies first. I've challenged him in a PM to come back here.

Ah, a challenge :duel:

And I made it clear my comments were intended in the playful sense, too. I'm not that much of a :daisy:, TinCow is my friend, just so everyone knows.

Of course they are. Did you really think a sane person would assume that you are serious? :inquisitive:

~;p

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 14:28

TinCow

01-15-2009, 14:41

And in case it isn't self-evident, what I am doing and what I have been doing since I began this game is not "scumtastic". There is no way to tell whether I am town or mafia from my recent posting behavior and you should know that, mister veteran. It's a logical fallacy you're spouting, there sir.

Why should I know that? The only other game I've played with you is Ephesus, and I won't know what role you had in that until the game is over.

After the rest of your multi-post diatribe (I had to commute to work, you couldn't wait 1 hour for a response?) I am more content with my vote than ever. Whether you are mafioso or not, you're the best option I see this round. It is alleged that your crazy play style is good for the town, and I see no reason why that would cease to be true if you were dead. However, when you are dead your completely erratic voting style will be removed, and that would please me.

Unlike you, I think my actions through carefully before committing to them. You'll not get me to shift my vote this round unless actual evidence shows up.

Andres

01-15-2009, 14:48

Still no sign of the cow made from tin. How very, very disappointing.

:no:

His case against me is paper-thin and worthless. I also find it hard to believe he came online just to posty his accusation against me and then left without saying a word. Maybe this is all a misunderstanding. Maybe he had things to do right afterward. Yes, that's gotta be it. He wouldn't be afraid to come back here, would he? Hiding in invisible land?

Come out, come out, wherever you are.... I've got some nice Tin Grass for you...

Why, all of the sudden, are things so urgent? I thought you wouldn't mind getting lynched first, didn't you? So still plenty of time to lynch TC the next day, no?

You even sent me a pm to ask me if I knew where TinCow was.

Why are you in such a hurry? With so many players still alive, you have plenty of rounds to continue your duel with TC.

:inquisitive:

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 14:48

Why should I know that? The only other game I've played with you is Ephesus, and I won't know what role you had in that until the game is over.

After the rest of your multi-post diatribe (I had to commute to work, you couldn't wait 1 hour for a response?) I am more content with my vote than ever. Whether you are mafioso or not, you're the best option I see this round. It is alleged that your crazy play style is good for the town, and I see no reason why that would cease to be true if you were dead. However, when you are dead your completely erratic voting style will be removed, and that would please me.

Unlike you, I think my actions through carefully before committing to them. You'll not get me to shift my vote this round unless actual evidence shows up.

He returns!

I think you know by now that I'm not bluffing, but you are backed into a corner and will refuse to vote for someone else. That suits me just fine. If I cannot convince you through my actions of my innocence, then you cannot be convinced. As such, I accuse you of having alternative motivations for your vote on me.

You claim my voting style is erratic. If I am not mistaken, it's served a very useful purpose, which is getting you to defend your vote of me. And also to get people talking. And to establish that I don't care whether I live or die. It does many, many things.

There is a reason why things would cease if I were dead; I wouldn't be able to vote. I accuse you of trying to remove me from the voting pool for unsound reasons.

You didn't seem to mind my playing style in the Ephesus game, but it suited you then. And although I made accusations which turned out to be false there, and changed my vote enough times, it was all peachy keen for you. Now it is not so.

Your defensive reaction, the assertion that I don't think before I act, I believe is based on how unnerving my "diatribe" has been for you. And there will be no additional evidence presented in the middle of a round.

I am saying your case is empty and hollow, and I am convinced you're scummy, and I'm willing to die alongside you to satisfy my hunch. Shall we die together, TinCow?

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 14:51

Why, all of the sudden, are things so urgent? I thought you wouldn't mind getting lynched first, didn't you? So still plenty of time to lynch TC the next day, no?

You even sent me a pm to ask me if I knew where TinCow was.

Why are you in such a hurry? With so many players still alive, you have plenty of rounds to continue your duel with TC.

:inquisitive:

If he were still online, I was trying to bait him into debating me. If he was not, I apologize and no harm done.

But time is of the essence. The more rounds we take to determine who the mafioso are, the more murders they get. I prefer not to waste time, whenever possible.

And yes, I am aware that makes me sound hasty and impatient. I've never been much for turtling.

Andres

01-15-2009, 14:54

Ah, I see.

You want to become a mafia Blitzmeister...

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 14:57

This is poker, with guns, and I'm not bluffing.

You haven't made your case to me, TinCow, and unless you do or change your vote, I'll ask town to lynch us both.

Tick tock.

TinCow

01-15-2009, 14:58

I am saying your case is empty and hollow, and I am convinced you're scummy, and I'm willing to die alongside you to satisfy my hunch. Shall we die together, TinCow?

No thanks, I'd prefer to live. You may not care whether you live or die, but I rather like being alive.

As for Ephesus, don't assume that my general lack of focus on you in that game was because I thought your play style was "peachy keen." I've had no vote in that game since the beginning, so all I can do is analyze. In that game, there were other people acting more scumtastic than you. In this one, as far as I am concerned, no one is so far elevated. You may think your play style is helpful to the town, but I disagree. Provoking discussion with posts is good and constructive, but you've crossed the line and you're now smothering discussion. You are focusing all attention in the game on you, and that allows mafioso to hide easily.

I call the game as I see it, and right now in my opinion you're the best lynch option there is. If you think I'm scum, then give it all you've got and get me lynched.

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:01

Sadly, I don't know if you're mafia or not. However, I know I'm not, and I don't think your case has merit. I'm not smothering discussion, I'm having one. And in an hour or so, when I'm not here, others can have their discussion.

If you are a townie, you need to state a better case. You keep saying your case is solid, that I am the most scumtastic person here. I assert that's a faulty premise, because I am taking risks with my life and I am imminently not afraid to die. Are you?

I have already told town they can lynch or investigate me at ANY time. What about you?

Andres

01-15-2009, 15:04

This is poker, with guns, and I'm not bluffing.

You haven't made your case to me, TinCow, and unless you do or change your vote, I'll ask town to lynch us both.

Tick tock.

TinCow did make his case against you :shrug:

I don't agree with his case, but his arguments aren't completely nonsensic.

What's your case against him?

And why should we limit ourselves to focusing on Askthepizzaguy and TinCow ?

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:07

My case against him is that he is voting for me based on what I think is weak reasoning. He is accusing me of being scummy, and if so, I am the most brazen mafioso ever. That's within the realm of possibility for me, and people who know me know that.

But, I'm NOT lying, and I am NOT bluffing, and if he is SO SURE I am mafia, I'm asking that he risks as much as he asks.

He wants my lynch? He's got to risk his. I call paperthin reasoning on him.

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:10

A townie would willingly give his life to take down a mafioso. Since Tincow has stated he thinks I am "SCUMTASTIC" I am offering him that chance.

All I ask in return is his head. Give me that much, and I'll vote myself. If he's so sure I am scum, why won't he risk his life to kill me?

Andres

01-15-2009, 15:11

Ah, but ATPG, in mafia we vote. This is a democracy. It's not for you to decide if TinCow gets lynched or not. The town decides that.

Your job as a townie is to convince us to lynch TinCow, not to convince TinCow to have himself lynched or to commit suicide.

And if you are not convinced that TinCow is scum, then you should take your lynching (if it would happen, votes are easily and quickly changed) and keep contributing to find other suspects.

EDIT : now you sound more like a disgruntled man, who wants TC dead because he deems TC responsible for his lynching. Not exactly the behaviour of a good townie. Mistakes are being made in mafia games, there are more wrong lynchings then correct ones. No need to hold a grudge or to ask for a fellow townie to be lynched because he's wrong.

TinCow

01-15-2009, 15:12

If you are a townie, you need to state a better case. You keep saying your case is solid, that I am the most scumtastic person here. I assert that's a faulty premise, because I am taking risks with my life and I am imminently not afraid to die. Are you?

Acting like you're not afraid to die proves nothing. There are plenty of reasons for a person to willingly die as a mafioso. There is also no way to prove that you actually mean what you say unless you actually let yourself get killed. Playing brinkmanship with your own life certainly proves that you are bold, but it doesn't prove that you actually don't mind dying.

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:13

Andres

01-15-2009, 15:16

@Andres

I'm not convinced he isn't scum.

If he were a townie, I think he would have cracked or backed down by now. His stubborn refusal to change indicates to me that he is SURE I am mafia.

I am calling him on that bet. I am willing to take the risk. He is not. That is how I know he is bluffing.

If a townie is sure you are mafia, then it is his duty to vote you :shrug:

If a townie sincerely thinks you're the best lynch option, then it's also his duty to vote you.

I really don't see how that relates to him having to be willing to get killed. That makes no sense at all.

Unvote : GH; Vote : Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:16

Acting like you're not afraid to die proves nothing. There are plenty of reasons for a person to willingly die as a mafioso. There is also no way to prove that you actually mean what you say unless you actually let yourself get killed. Playing brinkmanship with your own life certainly proves that you are bold, but it doesn't prove that you actually don't mind dying.

If I am willing to die to take down 1 townie... then town has scored a coup by nailing a mafia EARLY for NO REASON in return for your life.

That makes no sense. I am not bluffing.

You are showing hypocrisy. If you are willing to vote for someone, you should have a case against them, past the first round anyway. If you are sure of your case, you should be willing to back it up.

You're not willing to. That's why I call :daisy: on your vote. Town needs to investigate you/ lynch me, or vice versa, because I've proven even you don't believe in your own case, and I'm willing to GIVE you my life if I were town or mafioso to prove that you don't have a case to make against me, and your stubbornness is an indicator of a mafia backed in a corner.

Let's be careful with abbreviatons for cattle excrements - Andres

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:18

If a townie is sure you are mafia, then it is his duty to vote you :shrug:

If a townie sincerely thinks you're the best lynch option, then it's also his duty to vote you.

I really don't see how that relates to him having to be willing to get killed. That makes no sense at all.

Unvote : GH; Vote : Askthepizzaguy

Maybe you aren't following my reasoning, but for the love of God, I think he doesn't have it. I am claiming he is a mafioso, and he wants me dead, but isn't willing to be investigated or lynched.

I demand that TinCow get investigated or lynched.

Here's my head as compensation.

Unvote: Tincow
Vote Askthepizzaguy.

Edit: apologies for the above post, I thought the abbreviation was ok. I will be more careful in the future. :bow:

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:22

GeneralHankerchief

01-15-2009, 15:22

Note to self: Begin rereading on Page 8.

Note to everybody else: That's where I left off and skimmed from and I'll make sense of in a few hours.

Andres

01-15-2009, 15:28

I'll permanent vote myself with the assurance he gets lynched next or investigated.

I wouldn't go this far, but he isn't sure that I am mafia or else he would prove it with higher stakes. Since he won't back off his case that I am a mafia, when he doesn't even believe it himself, I am betting my life that he is a mafia.

I'll say it again, promise me his head, and I will permanent vote myself. No takebacksies.

Maybe he's not sure that you are mafia but sincerely believes that you're the best option for lynching today?

And why are you so upset about TinCow? I voted you as well. And so did Sigurd.

And voting yourself is usually a tactic to avoid a lynch by making a last minute vote switch. It doesn't plead for you.

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:32

I'm not upset at TinCow, Andres!

:laugh4:

This is just a game, my friends. A game I intend to win, for TOWN.

I offered you my head, with a PERMANENT VOTE that I refuse to take back, as long as you investigate or lynch TinCow. He hasn't responded like a townie, in my book. I say he is scared. I say he is afraid to die. I AM NOT.

Are you SURE I am mafia TinCow? Because no mafia would permanent vote himself in exchange for ONE TOWNIE'S LIFE that he could easily take at night.

Lynch me now if you must, but drag him down with me. He does not have the cards. He's a mafia. I've PROVEN I am a townie with this gambit, or a mafia willing to die in exchange for ONE townie.

He refuses to accept I am a townie or take the bet. I WIN.

LittleGrizzly

01-15-2009, 15:32

ok alot of crazyness went on here, i tried to make a post some 2 hours ago but ran out of time.

The basic run down of it would be...

Andres despite my brilliant logic may not be mafia, the bandwagon seems to be based on little of anything (though in fairness most votes are, i tend to dislike bandwagons)

and in those hours of crazyness inbetween now...

ATPG and TC are probably not mafia, this confrantation they have both taking up with each other looks more like townies trying to find mafia than mafia trying to be helpful townies (of course it could always be reverse physcology) they have both put themselves out there and painted big targets on thier back

Though in fairness TC was fairly out there when i was mafia with him... and hes damn good at it... ATPG on the other hand i don't now well enough to judge... (or now at all to judge)

So in retrospect. I am of the opinion that TC Andres and ATPG are all innocents, and some of our finest mafia players and the most active participants in the game, so in my eyes it is nessecary to keep these 3 people if we are going to win the game. Though as time goes on they will move into greater suspicion in my eyes...

So im going to go for someone who may potentially be lurking and abstaining to avoid the wog as to avoid attention being brought to thier scummy ways

Vote Boudica

Not that i couldn't be accussed of acting similarly, but i think i have made a little more effort and put myself out there more. As usual at this stage im fairly apologetic for my vote as it isn't based on much, but the andres bandwagon seemed to be based on little of nothing, some brilliant logic from grizz, TC makes a post and all of a sudden andres is centre stage in the suspicion. The TC and ATPG bandwagon's seem to stem from thier own efforts to hunt out mafia, which also seems a little false... though it is sometimes the mafia themselves that put the most into the public mafia hunting efforts

When i was mafia with tc he put alot of effort into finding out the 'mafia' in public, though again i think were slightly hanging ourselves by going for those who are gunning for the mafia (or at least appear to be trying to be gunning for the mafia)

I like to start with some lurker lynches myself...

edit: If anything i would feel more confident of saying ATPG is innocent than TC

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:41

What is your answer TinCow?

I understand Andres and Sigurd are voting for me, but that is because they believe I am acting scummy or bluffing. I am willing to bet they would give their lives to take me down, if they were sure I was a mafia, which I am not.

Unless you change your vote, I will insist that you get investigated at the very least. I am ready to die. You apparently are not... why are you so afraid of death? That is not townie behavior to me.

I would be willing to keep things as they are, but you've stopped debating me. You don't respond to me. You won't take my bet, and if you did, it would be a foolish gamble as a townie, one you know you cannot justify unless you truly believed I was mafia, which I know you don't.

That is my case against you TinCow. You ante up, by signing up for the mafia game. You placed your bet on me. I have raised the stakes. Either fold or call. And if you are a townie, you will be hurting us both by doing so.

You could end this by calling off your vote on me and calling for an investigation on me instead, but you won't change your vote and you won't bargain. You're stubborn and your case is hollow and empty. I can only conclude you are a mafia.

:whip:

Look, I know he's probably at work and he's probably busy. I am willing to hold off on this another round, but not if I am lynched this round without assurances that we look into TinCow.

Either everyone takes their votes off of me and we do this again next round, when TinCow has gotten the chance to respond, or we do this now and I have your assurances that TinCow gets looked at.

TinCow

01-15-2009, 15:46

I have no new answer for you, because you have not said anything of substance. You're simply repeating yourself over and over and further drowning all possible examinaton of other suspects.

LittleGrizzly

01-15-2009, 15:48

I understand Andres and Sigurd are voting for me, but that is because they believe I am acting scummy or bluffing. I am willing to bet they would give their lives to take me down, if they were sure I was a mafia, which I am not.

I think this is false logic

Townies should be willing to die to advance the cause but as a townie just offering yourself up for death so easily does not help, imo.

We need all townies to try to stay alive, if one can die taking a mafia or revealing one in his death then fair enough, but for two people just to butt heads and then one offer a joint suicide you either have a cunning mafia (which would be you in this situation) or a waste of 2 perfectly good townies

TBH, i would say your behaviour is slightly more suspicious then TC's. Whilst yours is more suicidal it is also a more convincing townie act, whereas TC is perfectly right that a good townie should aim to stay alive (or at least avoid his death being pointless)

Edit: end of the day i think your both innocent. but i would call out your (ATPG) actions as the more suspicious... woyuld you disagree ?

Also TC mkes a good point we shouldn't lose sight of everyone else (though lets not go back to the Andres bandwagon either!)

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:48

I have no new answer for you, because you have not said anything of substance. You're simply repeating yourself over and over and further drowning all possible examinaton of other suspects.

Then after I have offered you my sworn oath that I die this round in exchange for your INVESTIGATION, you still refuse, and you still contend I am mafia.

You're no townie. Pay up or shush up, as they say. You must be investigated or die, and in return, I will permanent vote myself.

Here it is. If I take it back and you've met my conditions, lynch me next round instead!

PERMANENT VOTE: ASKTHEPIZZAGUY

Andres

01-15-2009, 15:50

Unless you change your vote, I will insist that you get investigated at the very least.

And who should he switch his vote to?

TinCow is scummy because he votes you "without a good reason", but if he would switch his vote to a random target (also without a good reason...), you would be satisfied?

You are digging your own grave, ATPG...

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:53

If he is stubbornly convinced that I am still a mafia, then it is a grave I am willing to leap into to prove him wrong.

I welcome death, because I have nothing to lose. TinCow does. That is why he won't change his vote and he won't offer his life or even a simple investigation. I don't care who else he votes for. The point is, he had no defensible argument for voting me to begin with, and refuses to back down after I have virtually proven my townie status.

He's bluffing. I called him on it. If he's a townie, he must fold and call for my investigation instead.

LittleGrizzly

01-15-2009, 15:53

I would ask you to remove the vote on yourself ATPG, if for no other reason than an actual suspect (rather than these slight suspicion ones) could come to light and we may struggle to lynch them due in part to your vote on yourself... then we just got to convince the other people voting for you to abandon this idea...

Could you at least abandon this (im not sure what to call it) for at least a round or 2, for the town's sake...

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 15:58

This could all end, in one simple post. TinCow meets my conditions. That's all I am asking. Either he removes his vote on me, or he is certain I am mafia and is willing to die to kill me, or at the very least willing to be investigated.

I'm no mafia. No mafia would give his life for one townie's life without prompting, under no real duress, for no reason, when he could just kill him during the night phase.

The fact that you don't see that, Andres, makes me start to suspect you as well. Surely you would encourage TinCow to accept my conditions if you too were sure I was mafia. Why don't you call my bet? Sigurd isn't here or I would question him too.

Do you really think a mafia would do this? IF SO, PROVE IT!!! LYNCH ME!!! All I ask in return is the head of TinCow, and I'll be a happy pizzaguy.

Is TinCow a PaperTiger? :clown:

TinCow

01-15-2009, 16:03

Repeating things over and over doesn't make them true, ATPG. I have never refused to be investigated. Indeed I have never even responded to that point of yours before because it is absurd. The only person who determines whether someone is investigated is the detective. What you or I want or do not want is entirely irrelevant to the determination of who gets investigated. The detective investigates whoever he or she wants to, and it is totally pointless to make some kind of agreement on it either way.

LittleGrizzly

01-15-2009, 16:06

TC will possibly be investigated now regardless (he be a good one to check out when there are no suspects imo) but what tc says or doesn't say on the matter isn't important, you are wasting a perfectly good lynch on yourself (through your actions and your own vote) in what seems like an attempt to bring tc with you for nothing other than the reason he wants to stay alive

Heres some news for you. Grizz wants to live to, im willing to give my life if it may help in some way, but assuming tc is a townie here i see his logic and actually agree with it, it is pointless having townies throwing thier life away to prove they are townies, eventually once everyone else kills thier innocent selves as proof were left with some happy mafia...

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 16:07

I believe I have made my point. He knows I am not mafia, that is why he won't agree to be lynched in return for my head.

I've won my case, whether you agree with me or not, whether Andres agrees with me or not. You are bluffing, and you can't admit it. And I am now suspicious of Andres as well. Why he would defend you after I've given you my head is beyond my understanding.

I leave my fate in town's hands. As well as yours. They will decide who is townie and who is a liar.

Unvote: Askthepizzaguy
Vote: TinCow

He failed to accept my conditions. I am certain he is a mafia now.

LittleGrizzly

01-15-2009, 16:12

Thank you for that, regardless of the lynch results i would rather we did not have townies suiciding to prove themselves, it is in the end more unhelpful than helpful...

Edit: to clarify that would be the case most of the time near the beginning of the game, conditions nearer the end of a game could call for it at one time or another...

Andres

01-15-2009, 16:13

Thank you for that, regardless of the lynch results i would rather we did not have townies suiciding to prove themselves, it is in the end more unhelpful than helpful...

Btw, usually you don't talk so much, LittleGrizzly...

:inquisitive:

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 16:20

That unpleasant business aside, I am now confident that if you lynch me I can safely say I told you so, especially to TinCow and Andres, who smell to high heavens to me now.

Here's a tally! :heart:

GH vote Andres post 205
LW vote Andres post 207
RR vote GH post 208
ATPG vote Andres post 214, himself post 215, sigurd post 218, Andres post 222, Lord Winter 231, Taka post 241, Tincow post 253, ATPG post 277, Tincow post 293
Andres vote GH post 216, votes ATPG post 275
Sigurd vote ATPG post 217
GSC vote Abstain post 232, LW post 236, Abstain post 246
Taka vote LW post 238,
Beefy vote Taka post 240
Boudica vote Abstain post 248
TinCow vote ATPG post 250
Tevash votes GH post 254
LittleGrizzly votes Boudica post 282

Askthepizzaguy: 3 (Sigurd, Andres, TinCow)
Andres: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Lord Winter)
GeneralHankerchief: 2 (Reenk Roink, TevashSzat)
Taka: 1 (Beefy)
TinCow: 1 (Askthepizzaguy)
Lord Winter: 1 (Taka)
Boudica: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

Abstain: 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Boudica)

I have to assume now that only the stubborn will continue to vote for me. Other than TinCow, Andres does smell to me. I also accept the possibility that the scums are hiding and lurking, and aren't TinCow or Andres, but I've proven my townie credentials and they have not.

If I survive the lynch I will be murdered. It does not matter how this game ends now, I will be vindicated.

I will now return you to your regularly scheduled mafia game, with a calm grin on my face. :mellow:

LittleGrizzly

01-15-2009, 16:24

I like to get involved in the discussion a bit usually, if i think i have something worth saying (like stopping ATPG's suicide) ill say it. TBH i haven't played in a bit and can only remember the last game i played as mafia with TC and sarathos, there i was a little quieter, trying not to get too much attention, games where i wasn't mafia i can't remember too well tbh.

Basically my excuse is im free to be loud as a townie and try to be helpful.... this could always be reverse physcology though i guess....

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 16:50

I've been having conversations in private. Someone (who can claim full credit) posited the following scenario:

One of these main guys is the Mafia Don. He has chosen some of the top players to be his Mafioso. His suggestions: GeneralHankerchief, Andres, and TinCow.

They are acting scummy, defending one another, and I believe I have two of them on the ropes. I am unsure about GH, but either Andres or TinCow or both are scum through-and-through in such a scenario. It's possible this scenario is dead wrong, a little off, or dead on, but I felt it was good enough to be posted here.

Andres' earlier assertions in previous posts that I sounded bitter or that I was digging my own grave... they have convinced me that he's not looking at my behavior with an objective point of view. I think you're scared. So is TinCow. I am not.

:mellow:

Andres

01-15-2009, 16:54

Ehrm, this is a classic, vanilla mafia game.

Two mafiosi, one detective.

No Mafia Don roles, no possibility to recruit, just two scum, one detective and alot of townies.

Also, you accusations have no substance and they all come down to: "you don't agree with me, so you must be mafia".

Repeating your "arguments" over and over again won't change that. At best, it'll increase your postcount.

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 16:57

Fair enough.

We will see who is who and what is what when it's all over. And like my failed inquisition against GH in the Scourge of Ephesus game, I'll gladly come to you hat in hand and apologize for being so wrong, if I am wrong. But I will not be intimidated by votes, and I won't be intimidated by bad arguments. I assume you will not either. So in the end we disagree as gentlemen, and you will get to tell me you told me so.

We shake hands and I say "good game."

Until then, I'm rather convinced you are scum. But I am beating a dead cow, so I'll leave it be. :bow:

Yoyoma1910

01-15-2009, 16:59

Sorry gentle men, I seem to have a terrible headache.

It must be all this Louisiana Bourbon.

:smash:

Point of order!

Bourbon has never been made in Louisiana, therefor I cannot be dead!:happy2:

It was all a bad dream, hah hah... oh, ow... why are my brains leaking onto the floor... oh my god... I'm still stuck in that silent night game! argh... mmmmmmm.....

:saint:
____________________________________________________________________

Andres

01-15-2009, 16:59

But I am beating a dead cow

But TinCow is not dead!

*** looks at awfull attempt at humour ***

:creep:

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 17:00

But TinCow is not dead!

*** looks at awfull pun ***

:creep:

His case and his arguments are, IMHO.

:bow:

Yoyoma1910

01-15-2009, 17:17

Sorry again gentlemen, I didn't realize I had been killed until well into our conversation.

It won't happen again.

Askthepizzaguy

01-15-2009, 17:22

I was too busy accusing TinCow to see past my own nose. :laugh4:

Seireikhaan can have a transcript of what was said. Our conversation was well-intentioned and revealed nothing new about the game, IMO. But I defer to Sk's judgment. My conscience is clean.

I have to run, enjoy the peace and quiet! :laugh2:

shlin28

01-15-2009, 17:47

Bah, you guys are basically arguing about nothing, townies are supposed to not care about being killed! So what if someone accuses you of being mafia? If you are mafia, you die and thats good for townies. If you are town, you die and can still contribute, and thats good for townies.

Vote: Gaius Scribonius Curio

Too townie IMO. ~:smoking:

Edit: spellings

GeneralHankerchief

01-15-2009, 19:17

Ugh, I've think we've seen a record for most white noise generated. :dizzy2: That's not something to be proud of, ATPG.

You said yourself (it was you, right? It might have been Andres) that it's pointless to focus on one person a round because there are two mafiosi. Yet your dogged attacks on TinCow have made us completely forget about everything that happened beforehand.

IMHO, ATPG and TinCow are both townies. However, ATPG at this point is doing us more harm than good.

My vote stays on Andres. His behavior in the night phase reminded me a lot of Mafia VI.

Thermal

01-15-2009, 19:59

Firstly i've had a real science GSCE exam to revise for, so not being online for just under one day isn't so bad i figure.

Vote: ATPG

Call it what you want, but hes being even more ludicrous than usual!

Main points:
1: votes for himself, suicide votes arent healthy
2: quickly changes vote, as if he was trying to prove he was innocent voting for himself, only to vote for someone else knowingly after
3: Later on after gods knows how many votes ensures us he votes for himself no matter what, only to do a blatant lie and change vote again!
4: Madly active, always is active but like hyper, he won't rest until we all sub-consciously vote against someone else because we can't be bothered to read his extensive essay sized posts and therefore miss some of his faults
5: Over suspicious for no reason and would have avoided suspicion by being quieter, his reversed reverse psycho-versed psychology isn't something I'm coming to terms with yet
6: accuses most players of being scummy at some stage including all those who have voted against him, such as tincow, but tincow isnt suspicious IMO

Quintus.JC

01-15-2009, 20:05

@ATPG: you're behaving extremely unusual in this game, by giving reasons to call for your lynch I'd be repeating what other people have said, so I won't.

Vote: GH

I've really busy over the days, skimming through the thread has seriously messed up my head... something about you doesn't feel right.

Thermal

01-15-2009, 20:30

tally?

Askthepizzaguy: 4 (Sigurd, Andres, TinCow, 777ares777)
GeneralHankerchief: 3 (Reenk Roink, TevashSzat, QJC)
Andres: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Lord Winter)

Taka: 1 (Beefy)
TinCow: 1 (Askthepizzaguy)
Lord Winter: 1 (Taka)
Boudica: 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Gaius: 1 (Shlin)

Abstain: 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Boudica)

glyphz

01-15-2009, 22:19

Yoyoma & YLC got offed. Haven't read the posts prior.Simple mafia game. Clues? Don't know if there's one.

~:handball:
a) someone in the 'A' or the earlier letters.
b) someone who took part in Golden Rule:shrug:
c) neither
:thinking2:
Top 2 vote getters, Atpg and GH, fits well w/ a and b.
*looks at tally*

Conclusion: No objections. Vote: Abstain

GeneralHankerchief

01-15-2009, 22:25

Ugh, really? :wall:

Come on glyphz, you're smarter than this.

Unvote: Andres
Vote: glyphz

White_eyes:D

01-15-2009, 22:50

ATPG is acting really scummy:shrug:but so is TinCow. GH is really avoiding the limelight....so to even things up and reveal more scum(Possibly.....:book:) Vote:GH
Tally?
Askthepizzaguy: 4 (Sigurd, Andres, TinCow, 777ares777)
GeneralHankerchief: 4 (Reenk Roink, TevashSzat, QJC, White_eyes:D)
Andres: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Lord Winter)

Taka: 1 (Beefy)
TinCow: 1 (Askthepizzaguy)
Lord Winter: 1 (Taka)
Boudica: 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Gaius: 1 (Shlin)
glyphz: 1 (GeneralHankerchief)

Abstain: 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Boudica, glyphz)

Reenk Roink

01-15-2009, 23:08

Unvote: GeneralHankerchief
Vote: Askthepizzaguy, courteously :bow:

I like to be the deciding factor. :bow:

glyphz

01-15-2009, 23:14

you're smarter than this.er... am i? :stupido2:

Anyway, i lack the time to read, & attmept to analyze through, the past 3 pages before the deadline
...and I doubt I'll find much either.

Procrastinating on a Pol. Sci. paper...

about 'Liberty!':sweatdrop:

GeneralHankerchief

01-15-2009, 23:31

ATPG is acting really scummy:shrug:but so is TinCow. GH is really avoiding the limelight....so to even things up and reveal more scum(Possibly.....:book:) Vote:GH

How am I avoiding the limelight? I wasn't online when the ATPG/TinCow thing erupted, I can't help that. But when I have been on, I've definitely made my presence known.

Beefy187

01-16-2009, 01:11

Actually im willing to congratulate ATPG for his victory in Golden Rule

Unvote: Taka, Vote: ATPG

Here. Have what you deserve :whip:

:clown:

seireikhaan

01-16-2009, 01:38

Chief Vonken amassed the crowd together once more, this time not needing to explain the events from the night before. The charred remains of YLC's house served as a very real symbol of what the town of Cicero was facing. The town no longer remained restrained as had been the previous day. Accusations were shouted everywhere. In particular, Askthepizzaguy was particularly boisterous. As he continued to harry other townspeople, more and more townspeople turned against him. In the end, Askthepizzaguy would receieve more votes than anyone else. As he was thrust forwards to Chief Vonken to be executed, his rantings became louder and more confused. He repeatedly exclaimed that his death would prove his name and that he would aid the town in death. Not liking this sort of heresy, Chief Vonken whipped the deranged man with the short barrel of his pistol, knocking him to the ground. The chief fired a single shot, penetrating the skull and blowing chunks of brain and blood across the ground.

Askthepizzaguy: 6 (Sigurd, Andres, Beefy, Reenk Roink, TinCow, 777ares777)
GeneralHankerchief: 3 (TevashSzat, QJC, White_eyes:D)
Andres: 2 (GeneralHankerchief, Lord Winter)

TinCow: 1 (Askthepizzaguy)
Lord Winter: 1 (Taka)
Boudica: 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Gaius: 1 (Shlin)
glyphz: 1 (GeneralHankerchief)

Abstain: 3 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Boudica, glyphz)
Not voting: 3 (Warluster, Warman, Sarathos)

Alive: 21

Andres
Ares777
Beefy
Boudica
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio
GeneralHankerchief
Glyphz
LittleGrizzly
Lord Winter
QuintusJC
Reenk Roink
Sarathos
Shlin28
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
TinCow
Warluster
Warman
White_Eyes

Dead: 4
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)

Lynched: 2

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

EDIT: Night has begun! I want orders within 24 hours.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

01-16-2009, 12:44

................

Wow!

That's just insane........

To be fair I feel that once again much ado has been made about nothing. Tincow's logical defence, whilst seeming cold and calculated was much more solid than ATPG's passionate rant. That said the whole battle of wits and words scenario, while very entertaining to read through (as well as being very very confusing), merely provided yet another bandwagon for lazy townies, and perhaps the odd surprised and relieved mafioso, to jump on.

I acquit Andres and Tincow of such behaviour, several hours of reasoning with a ranting ATPG, must have provided ample reason for their votes, if only for some peace and quiet. Reenk Roink to appears to have made some studious reasoning of his own to the fray.

There are some people whose behaviour needs to be examined however. Beefy, while admittedly not usually the most reasoned player, has jumped on every bandwagon, or even semi-bandwagon, that has been so far dreamed up. Suspicious certainly, but, I feel, way too obvious.

GH voted before the rant, and rejoined halfway through, without changing his vote. It seems to me that with an argument in full swing, and one of the combatants someone he deemed suspicious he wanted to let things play out. I cannot fault him there.

Aries has the excuse of exams for jumping on an already rolling bandwagon. I sympathise with that but the fact itself still needs to be pointed out. This can be excused somewhat by the fact that reasoning was given.

Taka still has my alarm bells tingling. Semi-lurking amongst the buzz of many verbose players, he could be a suspect.

Glyphz is usually more up-to-date, and usually thinks things through a little more. Worthy of a second look in my opinion.

That my take on everything that has happened in my absence. Except for one small matter, may I call to the floor Shlin28. I should like an explanation of your vote for me. To say that someone is 'too townie' is, as ATPG suggested yesterday, a logical fallacy. If you have anything more that you based your opinion on I would be interested to hear an accusation...

Andres

01-16-2009, 13:00

Gaius Scribonius Curio, no opinion on LittleGrizzly?

GeneralHankerchief

01-16-2009, 17:04

White_eyes:D

01-16-2009, 17:33

What I don't like is now, I'm pretty much next in line to be lynched for no good reason. Andres and Reenk didn't have anything when they voted me. White Eyes gave a completely inaccurate reason for voting me ("avoiding the limelight" when I clearly wasn't), Quintus has me based off a gut feeling and nothing else, and glyphz thinks it may be me based off the previous kills (alarm bells go off in my head) and the fact that my nickname starts with the letter "G" (MAJOR alarm bells go off in my head).

If you guys want to lynch me, that's fine, but for heaven's sake do it for a good reason!

I was not trying to lynch you....I was trying to see who would make last minute changes to their vote to see if there Mafia.:book:(The whole avoiding the limelight....that was more for TinCow....call me crazy :inquisitive: but his defense was FAIR too cold and calculated....)

Above plan failed, since only ATPG killed himself and Beefy changed his vote and was the only one to.....I really don't think it's Beefy....:juggle2:(so I had a good reason...it was to look for suspicious voting, which failed :shrug:)

glyphz

01-16-2009, 17:37

What I don't like is now, I'm pretty much next in line to be lynched for no good reason. Andres and Reenk didn't have anything when they voted me. White Eyes gave a completely inaccurate reason for voting me ("avoiding the limelight" when I clearly wasn't), Quintus has me based off a gut feeling and nothing else, and glyphz thinks it may be me based off the previous kills (alarm bells go off in my head) and the fact that my nickname starts with the letter "G" (MAJOR alarm bells go off in my head).

If you guys want to lynch me, that's fine, but for heaven's sake do it for a good reason!
The reasons I put up were merely wild guesses, ones that I cannot take even seriously myself.
So rather than simply, voting abstain, I decided to post them to see what others thought.

The reaction, as would be expected:
:tomato2:

Does not mean I'm set to go after you, GH.

GeneralHankerchief

01-16-2009, 17:38

No, it succeeded, at least on me. The problem was that glyphz's voting looked even more suspicious.

-edit- meant for White Eyes.

Reenk Roink

01-16-2009, 17:57

GeneralHankerchief

01-16-2009, 17:59

That makes no sense. If you constantly vote for me, it probably means that you think I'm mafia. If you have a good reason for doing so, then you're not doing the town any favors by withholding it.

Andres

01-16-2009, 19:32

What I don't like is now, I'm pretty much next in line to be lynched for no good reason.

Wait a minute, why would it be sure that you are going to get lynched in the next round because of what occured in the previous round?

Alot can happen and for what it's worth, and only speaking for me, you're currently not my prime suspect.

Paranoia?

GeneralHankerchief

01-16-2009, 19:57

Mostly just keeping my eye on the tally and the reasons why people voted for me. In the most recent game similar to this one, Mafia VIII, I remember a lot of people seemingly lynched because they were "next in line". I'm sensing this trend happening again.

Thermal

01-16-2009, 20:33

yet another bandwagon for lazy townies

I believe i made 8 points for the reason i voted against ATPG, so while i followed the bandwagon i personally had various reasons to.

My theory is that after Andres got himself into trouble ATPG wildly upstages him, as if to protect andres, and through previous deranged behavior i will FoS: Andres i think GH and Tincow seem more normal to be honest. I like expressive behavior, but theres expressive and then pathetic (i.e accusing everyone like ATPG did) regardless i was going to vote against ATPG before i even seen the tally, after reading through his puzzling posts they seemed to burden his own votes and carry them off of Andres, interesting.

taka

01-16-2009, 23:11

Taka still has my alarm bells tingling. Semi-lurking amongst the buzz of many verbose players, he could be a suspect.

sorry if im seem to be semi lurking to you, i've exams coming up and tend to be only able to catch up when im at home (and not in library)

Now, with ATPG gone, i think i'll be able to catch up more easily without all his random accusation posts

As with what andres asked, i too would like to see your opinion on little grizzly

so far, from my opinion i feel that the mafia (or at least one) is lurking whilst letting townies bickering amongst ourselves and throw false accusations on each other. i still fail to see anyone suspicious enough for me to think they are mafia at a high percentage.

i do however think that shlin is underposting; from what i know he used to post a lot. i think i've only seen him post once?

TinCow

01-16-2009, 23:19

so far, from my opinion i feel that the mafia (or at least one) is lurking whilst letting townies bickering amongst ourselves and throw false accusations on each other. i still fail to see anyone suspicious enough for me to think they are mafia at a high percentage.

QFT. Very easy to hide in yesterday's mess. Hopefully we'll get more productive and less hysterical discussions in the next lynch phase.

Quintus.JC

01-16-2009, 23:22

Gaius Scribonius Curio, no opinion on LittleGrizzly?

Yeah. LitteGrizzly doesn't normally talk as much as he did in this thread, although his activity has gone down ever since.

seireikhaan

01-17-2009, 01:23

Following the day's lynch, General Hankerchief departed from the town square, but did not head home. Given that every person killed thus far had been at home when it happened, he figured he would be safer somewhere else. Not wanting to just hide out like a rat, he instead opted for a peaceful stroll through the park for the night. The night was crisp and cool, a nice departure from the bit of recent heat the town had been enduring. GH found a nice, neat bench along the edge of a pond which took prominence in the park. Setting down with a blanket, GH slowly began drifting off to sleep. Some time later, GH was awoken by a sudden roaring sound. Startling awake, GH observed a motor boat streaking through the pond. "What on earth...?" The boat pulled up to the lakeside near the bench, the motor puttering to a stop. A man with a perfectly balanced fedora, no mean feat given the rocking boat, stood up,and pulled a pistol from his coat. In the dark, all GH could make out was that some man stood up in the boat. He never saw the pistol. Never saw the trigger pulled. Never saw the bullet fly. GH dropped on the spot, blood running down from the bench, leaking a dark crimson into the waters as the boat drove away.

Glyphz, on the other hand, felt that this was THE time, if ever, to remain at home. Upon getting back, he barricaded four thick wooden boards to the inside of his front door, hammering them down with large carpenter's nails. Looking upon his creation with pride, Glyphz retreated to the kitchen to prepare himself a cozy little dinner. Opening the fridge, he noticed there was little in the way of food, but still enough to scrape something together. Pulling some leftover meatloaf out, he was startled by a loud banging sound. An intruder clearly was attempting to break the door down, but having great difficulty. With no warning, the banging stopped. Glyphz stood alert, as though expecting for a moment someone to drop from the ceiling. Nothing... Realizing his plan had worked, Glyphz let out a great cheer. However, when he walked back to the meatloaf, he heard an odd, faint, splashing sound. He scampered around the kitchen, then the living room, then the upstairs. No source... Then he smelled it. Gas. Looking outside, Glyphz saw a figure in a trench coat tossing an empty gas can to the ground, then pulling a box of matches from inside the coat pocket. Tossing a single match to the base of the house, the flame immediately ignited into a full blaze, spreading up the house like, well, a wildfire. Glyphz sprinted to the front door. He frantically ripped at the boards, but they held firm against his efforts. In his panic, Glyphz neglected to search for the hammer to rip out the nails. But no matter how much he struggled, he could not get the boards out. While giving a final, desperate struggle, the ceiling finally succumbed to the expanding fire, collapsing on top of Glyphz.

Alive: 19

Andres
Ares777
Beefy
Boudica
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio
LittleGrizzly
Lord Winter
QuintusJC
Reenk Roink
Sarathos
Shlin28
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
TinCow
Warluster
Warman
White_Eyes

Dead: 6
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)

Lynched: 2

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

Voting now begins! PLEASE KEEP THE TALLY! Thank you.

Beefy187

01-17-2009, 01:28

What was the point for mafia to leave GH alive for this long?

What was the point of killing him now?

I sense a sloppy mafia

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 01:28

Good, that's what I was hoping for. Now the town knows I'm innocent.

Beefy187

01-17-2009, 01:31

Wait.. GH was role blocker on the other game. I got the two mixed up :wall:

Still GH was starting to appear scummy. Why kill now?

glyphz

01-17-2009, 02:14

WASTED
Meatloaf...:cry: Oh HEAVENS! WHY!:bigcry:

TinCow

01-17-2009, 02:29

It's certainly a curious choice. GH was under a lot of suspicion and Glyphz was attracting some as well. Eliminating both of them reduces the number of prominent suspects. This is a pretty heavy suggestion that the mafia are inexperienced. For that exact reason, I will conclude the opposite. I know that's WIFOM, but this is exactly what I would do (and have done) if I was mafia. Make the kills look amateurish to allow veteran players to hide easier.

I will be waiting for more discussion to occur, but based on the above I plan on voting for an active veteran mafia player this phase.

glyphz

01-17-2009, 02:33

It's certainly a curious choice. GH was under a lot of suspicion and Glyphz was attracting some as well. Eliminating both of them reduces the number of prominent suspects. Thought so too.
And am inclining that the mafia have a reason to do so.

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 02:39

glyphz

01-17-2009, 02:43

No no no no no, we don't want to do this. This kind of thinking has us go in endless circles and valid or not, we can't be sure. I'd much rather we stay on course and continue basing our suspicion off of thread behavior.Worthy point:bow:
The only thing for sure, IMO, is that the mafia just lowered their odds of surviving this round's lynch.

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 02:54

Alive: 19

Out of 19, 2 are WoG-bait (Warluster, Warman). We should leave them be, khaan will take care of them soon I imagine.

Ares hasn't said much recently.

TinCow

01-17-2009, 03:27

No no no no no, we don't want to do this. This kind of thinking has us go in endless circles and valid or not, we can't be sure. I'd much rather we stay on course and continue basing our suspicion off of thread behavior.

I'm not so certain of my theory that I'm unwilling to consider other options. However, despite my recent successes as mafia, I'm still pretty new and don't know the normal posting habit of most of players. I struggle when trying to do my own analysis of posting habits. Put forth of a case against someone based on in-thread behavior, and I'll listen to it.

Theoretical question that is unrelated to the above: In a standard mafia game like this where the roles are limited to 2 mafia and 1 detective, should the detective reveal himself after he has located 1 mafioso, but not the other, or hold out in the hope of locating them both. I've been thinking about this for a long time now and I always seem to come around to revealing once 1 is found, but I'd like some more experienced opinions on this.

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 03:42

General doctrine has been to reveal as soon as you find a mafioso. The one time a Detective found a mafioso in one of my games, he waited 3-ish rounds before revealing, but I'm not sure if that's relevant considering it was in Mafia II, which was back in July of 2006.

For the record, I agree with general doctrine.

White_eyes:D

01-17-2009, 04:47

I have no clear idea who could be Mafia.....I think it could be Ares......since he was kinda VERY zealous:duel: in his quest to get rid of ATPG....(can't blame him:shrug:....but still.... his reasoning was kind of bad...) and I could see him getting rid of GH for some reason....:dizzy2:
Firstly i've had a real science GSCE exam to revise for, so not being online for just under one day isn't so bad i figure.

Vote: ATPG

Call it what you want, but hes being even more ludicrous than usual!

Main points:
1: votes for himself, suicide votes arent healthy
2: quickly changes vote, as if he was trying to prove he was innocent voting for himself, only to vote for someone else knowingly after
3: Later on after gods knows how many votes ensures us he votes for himself no matter what, only to do a blatant lie and change vote again!
4: Madly active, always is active but like hyper, he won't rest until we all sub-consciously vote against someone else because we can't be bothered to read his extensive essay sized posts and therefore miss some of his faults
5: Over suspicious for no reason and would have avoided suspicion by being quieter, his reversed reverse psycho-versed psychology isn't something I'm coming to terms with yet
6: accuses most players of being scummy at some stage including all those who have voted against him, such as tincow, but tincow isnt suspicious IMO See all that? he made a bunch of reasons why ATPG should be lynched.....then later in a response to Gaius Scribonius Curio over "Lazy bandwagoning townie's" he says
this I believe i made 8 points for the reason i voted against ATPG, so while i followed the bandwagon i personally had various reasons to.

My theory is that after Andres got himself into trouble ATPG wildly upstages him, as if to protect andres, and through previous deranged behavior i will FoS: Andres i think GH and Tincow seem more normal to be honest. I like expressive behavior, but theres expressive and then pathetic (i.e accusing everyone like ATPG did) regardless i was going to vote against ATPG before i even seen the tally, after reading through his puzzling posts they seemed to burden his own votes and carry them off of Andres, interesting.Notice how he says Andres is his Main suspect and GH was innocent and was killed afterward...yet also he says that TinCow is innocent.....Fos:TinCow Vote:Ares

Beefy187

01-17-2009, 04:57

White_eyes:D

01-17-2009, 05:10

Complete WIFOM, but if Ares for instance wanted ATPG lynched, its unlikely that he would kill him. Killing will confirm that person innocent in standard game.

So rather, I think Ares is being framed.

However Ares is acting rather strangely regardless of the fact that he has exams

Framed how?:shrug:.......I just think it's funny how two of the people who are claimed innocent by Ares (One killed right away and another is very Cold and calculated....and was my top suspect other then ATPG is now the only one left alive...) My vote stays on Ares unless you guys have a better suspect (I want to avoid the whole TinCow thing, even if ATPG felt that strongly about it...:whip:)

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 05:39

khaan, I gotta ask this question: How much influence does the mafia have in the kill writeups?

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 05:43

Also, Reenk, now that I'm dead, what was your reason for voting me?

seireikhaan

01-17-2009, 06:16

khaan, I gotta ask this question: How much influence does the mafia have in the kill writeups?
If the mafia should wish to do the writeups themselves, I merely edit them to make sure nothing really outrageous happens. If the mafia should wish to do nothing for the writeups, I do them entirely myself.

Reenk Roink

01-17-2009, 06:33

Also, Reenk, now that I'm dead, what was your reason for voting me?

It goes back to your "force of nature" declaration again. Not only is it a weird thing to say on it's own, but I clearly saw it as a reference that you were up to something (especially odd that it came pretty close after khaan sending the PMs). A determined townie CAN be helpful, but usually is ineffectual and can be harmful too. A determined Mafia (which I reasoned you had a slightly better chance than the rest at being given your outburst) on the other hand...

So what was your suggested reason?

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 06:37

Because I was at the time voting for those who had joined the "abstain" bandwagon, and I thought you were just defending your comrades-in-arms. I figured that if I gave that as a half-joke reason it would be an easy cop-out for you to take.

BTW, my declaration is still in effect. The mafia is going down.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

01-17-2009, 11:46

OK, a couple of people, Andres being one asked for my opinion on LG, so...

LG seems to be a little more active than he was in the last game I played with him (Midgard II), during which he was mafia. He also seems to be posting fairly well-thought out opinions, being helpful and attempting to assist the town. That said, he is still a skilled mafia player, and could easily be hiding something.

The killing of GH and Glyphz certainly makes little sense from a mafiosi viewpoint. GH described himself as 'the next in line', and was under an undue amount of scrutiny. Also by sheer virtue of being a towering veteran, his mere presence would be confusing enough closer to an end-game scenario.
Glyphz also was gathering suspicion, and these murders, as Tincow has stated point to an amateurish mafioso, perhaps an amateur team. While I appreciate Tincow's idea that it could be a set-up, and gladly acknowledge that it is something that he would attempt (and probably succeed at :bow:), I feel it would be more productive at this stage to focus on who could have made a mistake, rather than who has the ability to come up with such a diabolical ploy.

Taka for me is still a suspect, more because of the amateurish killings than the semi-lurking.

Boudica is newish, and while doing little suspicious, except for a lack of posting, cannot escape this fact.

Aries...... seems a little defensive. He responded directly to my comment on lazy townies like it was aimed at him, laying out a defence for his actions very quickly. White-eyes makes a good point that his reasoning was flawed (but honestly the situation in the lead-up to ATPG's lynch was very confusing). But I feel that his accusation against Andres seems very convoluted, and he did single out GH as being most likely innocent, just before he died (horribly). FOS: Aries

Vote: Abstain for now.

shlin28

01-17-2009, 12:49

I thought you thought I was suspcious? I DEMAND TO BE VOTED!

From the night writeups, I would say at least one, perhaps two, mafia are newish to mafia games. Killing two high profile targets would makes a lot of sense when you are new.

Vote: Boudica

Askthepizzaguy

01-17-2009, 15:38

Hidden in spoilers for your convenience.

Some of you may be wondering exactly what my tirade against TinCow was all about. It was not, as some had thought, out of anger or fear that I might be lynched; I'd been lynched before in other games as mafia and never had such a reaction (1). And I never will, mind you. Quite the contrary, if I were to be lynched, I'd prefer it to be sooner rather than later. As a mafia, it means I don't have to work for 4 weeks on a victory only to die at the finish line, and as a townie it frees me to accuse without fear of death. People must make a decision, whether I am lying or telling the truth, whenever I do something dramatic. I had warned in the Prometheus about the potential dramas that could be presented by a mafioso, such as false reveals and odd roles, however this is not always the case. And contrary to what TinCow thought, I took a very calculated risk and had a clear plan that I thought through before executing.

I had nothing to lose. You need to watch for this, because although I could bluff one day when I have a role, when I am a non-crucial townie, I have a very specific task. That task is to;

a) Try not to be lynched or WOG'ed, as either of these do not help town. To be WOG'ed is acceptible only if I have become WOG bait and haven't been contributing, much like a lurker mafia.
b) Try my best to prevent good townie roles, the power roles, from being lynched or targeted by the mafioso. If I make myself murder bait, or sadly even lynch bait, that's one more turn that the power roles can use to survive. This is ALWAYS good for town.
c) Use whatever means necessary to "throw my weight around" looking for the mafioso, as TinCow had characterized it. This promotes discussion, intimidates the lurkers, prevents mindless bandwagon-ing against people without cause, and calls people out on their bogus arguments.
d) be so suicidal with my life that I actually make a convincing case that I am not anything but a loyal townie ready to give my life at the appropriate moment.

As you already know, I have roughly two strategies for either town or mafia that I use, when the game is basic and simple, and you guys haven't figured out which strategy I use, when. Those are;

1. Supertownie (real)

Trying my best to do all of the above, or bluff all of the above whilst guarding my life with a possible good guy role. Threatening the lurkers, intimidating the non-contributors, encouraging the contributors to comment more, and questioning other supertownies.

This strategy has gotten town very close to victory even under unlikely circumstances like 3 or more scumbags in a smaller game, and immodestly, so far it has always correctly identified the mafia under my watch. (2)

2. Supertownie (fake)

Trying to do the exact same thing in a convincing enough manner, while I am mafia, as indistinguishable in style and tactic as possible. See Prometheus. (3)

____________________________________

The bottom line was, I play high risk style. As a townie without a crucial skill, being careful with my life is pointless. My victory condition does not include being alive. More townies will typically die than mafia in these games, and we all know it. Removing myself from the final line-up early on is good for town no matter WHOSE team I am on. The sooner you start killing mafioso the better, so for gosh sakes take me up on my offer if you REALLY think I am mafia, as being dead kind of makes it less likely my mafia team will win. Finally, being dead more often than not proves my innocence and allows me to pursue the suspects without worry or bias, except in games where the dead cannot talk.

Because a basic townie is nothing more than a foot soldier, I was on the front lines right away from the get-go, under fire, shaking down potential mafia. I am ruthless, I am relentless, I may not always be right but I am usually right eventually, my track record so far is fairly good.

The mafia probably figure that if I am yapping, I don't have a role so it's pointless to waste their kills on me, unless town refuses to lynch me. But at the same time, it is in their best interests to make me dead as soon as possible, because given enough time I will find them. I may have bungled a couple of games when I had the victory in my hands (4) but they may not always be so lucky. Do they want to chance it?

Even if TinCow or Andres weren't mafia, they are veteran players who should be able to defend themselves against my attacks convincingly, and they should GET what I was trying to do. The fact that I have to explain this does not bode well for their innocence, in my book, but perhaps in future games they will remember this one and make a note of it.

I would like to put to rest the absurd notion that what I am doing "squelches discussion" too.

I was yapping for precisely what? 3 hours or so? After being inactive for two turns, and then was promptly inactive right after that? You guys have had over 48 hours of day time without my silly interference. You've had plenty of time since I left, too. Though it may LOOK like I am taking over the thread, I am simply posting a lot in a small period of time. You have much, much more time to discuss than I do.

TinCow knows full well that I was not squelching discussion, that's not a claim he can legitimately make no matter what role he has. So the fact that he'd make such a facetious argument again did not bode well for his innocence.

I have no way of knowing for sure if his claim of commuting is truthful, and in a game of lies and deceit, people often mix the truth with lies. I accept that he probably was commuting. It does not matter though, what I was doing forced him to respond as soon as possible, which was the point. I don't need to waste 4 game days prosecuting someone, there are a lot of suspects, and I felt that his case against me was weak. I needed to prove to both him and the rest of you my credentials, and I need to move onto other suspects after clearing/bagging TinCow. Time is short in mafia games, not long as Andres and TinCow have suggested. I humbly disagree with my more experienced counterparts on that point.

After I established myself, in my opinion, by my words and my actions, TinCow was unconvinced of my status. So, with nothing to lose, I said that I would vote myself so long as he'd agree to be investigated. And he's right, I can't force the investigator to do anything. TinCow could BE the investigator. However, the fact that he flat-out refused to change his vote, or even bluffingly accept my offer, and refused to state a better case against me, defend himself against my arguments, or agree to be lynched as long as I got lynched first, that shows to me that he's either a closed-minded townie or a stubborn and cornered mafia, and we don't need either of those running around alive.

No offense to you TinCow, as everyone know this is an adversarial game, and I don't hold grudges, and I don't become spiteful, vindictive, or take it personally when someone criticizes my playing style. After this game, things will be back to normal I expect, and I am not attacking you personally. I am attacking your in-game play based on my in-game role as a townie. You're a decent fellow and I respect you personally.

:bow:

I offered TC other options, like if he would change his vote I'd agree to be investigated. I offered him my head as a lynch target, and my vote on myself to confirm it. I offered to have this duel in another round if he would remove his vote from me. I even said that he could keep his vote on me if he had a more substantive argument. He has the intellect and the rhetorical skill to do any of these things, and he refused. When I upped the stakes and said that I thought he was a mafia and was willing to risk it all, my life, his life, and even the potential outcome of the game, on my hunch that he was a mafia trying to eliminate me without just cause, he would not step up to the plate and call my "bluff", and it was never a bluff.

If TinCow had a role, he might have left the prosecution of Pizzaguy to the rest of town to pursue. Since he did not, I again made an assumption that he was either a basic townie or a scum. In any case, we can technically afford to lose him. My assumption could be wrong, but I raised the stakes to "all-in" and he had every opportunity to fold and let others take his place. I would have focused on the next most scummy candidate and all would have been forgiven, but that was not to be.

My argument was sound, in spite of TinCow's and Andres assertions to the contrary, and that they would not look at them with an open mind and instead resorted to appealing to fear and emotion by threatening my life, calling me bitter, and saying I was "scumtastic" without citing reasons (a laughable thing, as I had given you a thousand different things to cite, on purpose) it told me that they weren't being open-minded townies that I could work with after I was dead. It also told me that they were likely cornered mafia.

I don't see any other way to see it, and after the game if TinCow and Andres both prove to be townies, I'll offer them my apologies for being wrong, I am only mortal. But that's different from having a flawed argument or being bitter. My strategy was multifaceted and all designed to increase town's chances of winning, and incorporated many junction points where if my accusation was false, it could have been easily resolved, and it reduced the likelihood that if my death and TinCow's were to happen, town would suffer for it.

We are both uncleared suspects. At the very least, being dead clears us of being the remaining mafia. That still accomplishes something. Neither of us have good roles from what I gather. And instead of waiting several turns to be more or less randomly lynched, not bothering to actively challenge, question, and investigate people, I decided to be more proactive. If I were dead wrong on all counts, the end result would have been a wash; as townies we are likely to die anyway, and with both of us dead and still able to talk, what did we really lose?

At worst it would have been 2 townies without skills dead in a game of many, at a non-critical juncture where town would have had plenty of time to make up for even the worst case scenario. That was a gamble I was willing to make, perhaps not right away, and not for a while, but as the argument got more heated and no evidence was brought against me, and no further nor any concrete arguments were brought against me, I decided something smelled funny. And even after I went kamikaze on TinCow and offered to (indeed I did, conditionally) permanent vote myself which virtually guaranteed I was either not a mafia, (or I was a mafioso willing to die THIS TURN before I could ever have killed anyone) they still refused to unvote me, that told me that they weren't willing to wait another turn to kill me, which is the request they had made of me, to prolong this confrontation to another phase. They asked of me more than they themselves were willing to give in return, both in terms of time and in terms of collateral.

You should have taken my offer. My accusations were never defended against, no evidence was brought against me, and much was offered against TinCow in rebuttal, and as a bargain, and I raised the stakes to a place no sane mafioso would go, and offered to drop the whole matter if we were both investigated in rather short order.

Was that so much to ask? NO!

In the end, I feel TinCow lost the bet, and still would not back down. As such, he should have been lynched or investigated sooner rather than later. My conscience is clear on this matter, and it was precisely the correct, calculated move under the circumstances. In the future, I will use this duel with TinCow as an example, and if and when I raise the stakes, you will know I have very sound reasons for doing so, and if you ARE so convinced I am mafia, call my bluff.

I am not going to do this every game, even as a townie, because that ruins my chances of ever winning as a mafia again, but more importantly, I might have a pro-town role and I might not be sure I want to risk my life in all cases. However, when I do raise the stakes, you must pay attention, whether you personally agree with my strategy or not, whether you're town or not, whether you personally like me or not.

I will however start to hide my more lengthy tirades, harangues, statements, analyses, and assumptions in spoilers so as not to clog up the thread and give everyone else a chance to have a cross-firing argument with someone else, and not steal all the attention for 3 hours out of a game.

I know that at the end of the game, my innocence will be proven, and in all scenarios, I feel my actions were justified. This is just the game, but I still take my role seriously. And at the end of the day, it IS just a game, so who cares if taking a calculated risk results in a loss? As long as I can justify that risk I will take it. The consequences are never as dire as they would be in real life.

And by the way, I was a townie, and I was right about something. TinCow's case against me was paper thin, his willingness to consider what I had to say was nonexistent, as his defense never showed up. In the end, it was all just a paper tiger, as I had originally claimed. And now I have proven it.

I rest my case. Good luck town, and no hard feelings TinCow, of course! :shakehands: :medievalcheers:

(PS- I know that even if I am 100% right, nobody likes a smarty-pants who doesn't shut up. So, if you wish, I can play without stating my reasons from now on. I'll play these games without any tools at my disposal if I must, because I enjoy them and I enjoy interacting with you guys. But if you want me to play effectively, you gotta let me talk.)

Sources;

1.) The Prometheus, A game of.... Mafia (TWC)
2.) The Lunar Whale, Family Guy Mafia, Fillet Royale
3.) The Prometheus
4.) The Lunar Whale, Family Guy Mafia

And, since you're so sure I am scum, even though the number of murders will exonerate me, I will abstain from giving an analysis in this game as well. No further distractions from me, and good luck town.

I understand your reaction, but from now on, maybe you'll understand me a little better.

:bow:

Nobody plays that ballsy if they are mafia.

hmm... logic :idea2:

TevashSzat

01-17-2009, 16:33

Sorry guys for being relatively lurking lately. I tried to avoid reading the whole ATPG Tincow thing out of laziness, but I'll try to get caught up later today.

Also, @ATPG that is one long post

TinCow

01-17-2009, 16:44

TinCow knows full well that I was not squelching discussion, that's not a claim he can legitimately make no matter what role he has. So the fact that he'd make such a facetious argument again did not bode well for his innocence.

Stopped reading when I got here, because if you still believe your posting pattern was good for townie discussion, there's no point in me responding further.

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 18:07

Has Ares ever been mafia in a large game before (or barring that, a small game that had a lot of activity)?

-edit- And Golden Rule doesn't count, for all intensive purposes.

LittleGrizzly

01-17-2009, 19:12

Firstly onto my varying levels of participation, i just happened to be around when ATPG's and TC's argument was going on, this gave me plenty to comment and think on. I have been told or generally believe that the more discussion the better for the town, this doesn't nessecarily always hold true but i tend to follow it. Also i don't really have a set routine so one day i could have hours to comment and discuss the thread another day i may not even get on the computer at all, which is what happened the first day and the session after the ATPG TC discussion.

I have been in a mafia before where they kept killing suspects off, im not a fan of it myself in mafia as its a risky strategy, but whilst its paying off you confuse the hell out of everyone and lead suspicion towards newer players. Im leaning towards a newer player myself... i have my suspicions of boudica, but im not sure if im basing that off too little and a bad gut instinct, i think i will leave this suspicion for a round or two as its a newer playerhe may just be acting new rather than scummy... i remember being quite attached to the abstain vote for my first few games... infact im even tempted now...

Okay im going to have to have another read through before i can pick a suitable suspect

Ohh and ATPG by all means keep contributing, especially now your a confirmed innocent, should help i hope...

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 19:14

khaan, will there be two kills no matter how many mafiosi are left?

LittleGrizzly

01-17-2009, 19:24

seireikhaan

01-17-2009, 19:25

khaan, will there be two kills no matter how many mafiosi are left?
Yes.

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 19:26

Okay then, so ATPG still isn't cleared.

LittleGrizzly

01-17-2009, 19:38

Just makes things more complicated, we won't even now if we got one of the buggers...

For what its worth though, from they way ATPG went down, i would call him practically confirmed, either that or him and his partner have some damn risky strategy going on...

shlin28

01-17-2009, 19:39

Going to put my vote on Shlin, not enough activity... he doesn't seem far off what i remember him being like in the thread i was mafia with him, i admit my convictions aren't too strong in this, but he does seem like mafia shlin...

Vote Shlin

Well.. in the two games I can remember where I was mafia, my posts count were pretty high, (24 out of 230, and 16 out of 267), so me lurking is kinda.. er ... townie. :clown:

My vote stays on Boudica.

LittleGrizzly

01-17-2009, 19:43

Well i was probably going to stick with my boudica vote from last round but when you stuck your vote there i felt a bit harsh bandwagoning the new player.... your quite possibly right you were a bit more active as mafia Shlin.... until i can find a better suspect my vote sticks

ohh and just to make sure

Vote Shlin28

incase it matters...

taka

01-17-2009, 19:51

TinCow

01-17-2009, 20:52

I think we got one me them, looking at the last write up, there is no second hitman mentioned, where as there were two in the other previous write ups.
Need to confirm when i get on a computer as browsing on the phone is quite hard.

This is false. All murder write-ups have mentioned only a single murderer, and they all appear to be a man wearing a trenchcoat, a fedora, or (usually) both. In addition, all of the write-ups have a very consistent and even style, which suggests to me that they have all been written by the exact same person. This makes it unlikely that the mafia have contributed anything substantial to the descriptions.

I was hoping for better discussion by this point in the day, but it has not materialized. However, I will follow GH's suggestion and try and swallow my veteran WIFOM feelings for at least another round. So, less experienced players who seem scummy. Before the ATPG situation got going the previous day, taka was looking like a worthwhile target to put pressure on. So, I will pursue that.

Vote: taka

I would also like to hear from anyone who can comment on whether Ares and Beefy are acting unusual in any way, since I do not know their style of play.

shlin28

01-17-2009, 20:56

taka

01-17-2009, 23:35

1st write-up - kill on Tiberius

He could visibly see a figure in a rather large trench coat and Fedora in the passenger side of the vehicle

2nd write-up - kill on YLC

...the man picked up the pace as a black Model T car pulled up the curb. The man hopped into the passenger side...

in the last two write ups, although not directly mentioning the 2nd person, the write ups DOES discretely note a 2nd person (the driver). however in the last write up, nothing about the 2nd person is mentioned

unless a person can drive in the passenger seat; i think the previous write-ups had two people, whilst the latest one doesnt

so tincow, is that good enough observation for you? or am i still talking false mumbo jumbo?

TinCow

01-18-2009, 00:40

Hmmm. You've got a sharp eye there, I did not notice the passenger references. Those references disappear after N2, which would mean that ATPG was mafia. Alternatively, the N3 write-up could have just omitted those extremely subtle points or the mafia could have intentionally sold seireikhaan to make the write-ups show only one person on each. So, I'm not sure how much evidence we can draw from this. However, that was an exceedingly good thing to notice in the write-ups. I certainly would have missed it if you hadn't pointed it out. Helping the town discussion in that manner is sufficient to make me think my vote is better placed elsewhere.

Unvote: taka

Also on the newbie list and in-line with shlin's response:

Vote: Ares

Beefy187

01-18-2009, 00:51

Ares and Beefy usually posts a lot more than this. (In Fillet royale (581 posts in total)) Ares did 88 posts. In Family Guy Mafia Beefy did 76 out of 732.) So yeah, they have been lurking a bit compared to other games.

But in family guy mafia, I had something to go on with. ATPG comes up with all sorts of theories and I just had to nod so the towns don't waste their lynch on a innocent.

In this mafia however, I feel that if I speak too much ill get hanged for it because I got a strange fetish of saying unnecessary stuff.

Also another reason I don't speak much is because I am sleeping when all the discussion is hot. And I am awake when there is no one up to bounce my theories on

Also

Unvote: Taka

Thermal

01-18-2009, 00:58

However Ares is acting rather strangely

Are you joking? i always act strangely, My points and evidence were a bit out of the box, but i don't always suspect the majority vote (ATPG being an exception :dizzy2: )

@Shlin: I am usually more active, however i don't usually have as much school work as i do now either, i have posted at least once a day, and when i come on the discussion has already climaxed or finished.

@GH
I though in comparison you and tincow were normal, and ATPG was going senile and Andres was Fos'ing everyone, so yes in comparison saying you two seem townie is a fair statement no? There is a chance seeing as there will always be 2 kills, that GH (you) are mafia, and if i express that i think your innocent, i'm definitely not going to kill you the next night, on the basis i be mafia.

@White_eyes
FoS'ing Andres after his weirdo behavior, (don't you remember?) was valid, and i don't see why FoS'ing Tincow because i think he is innocent is fair, when you've no clue to my alignment, all your going to do is kill two townies instead of one.

@Everyone:
I'm always defensive, i was incredibly suspicious defensive in fillet royale but i was townie through and through, i just don't like being falsely accused. If GH is innocent, It shows i was right to think he was a townie, only this judgement of my mine arouses suspicion :shrug: i know we don't have many leads but that is a poor one if i ever saw one.

For players reference, my previous games, and my alignment....

Golden rule - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=110184)

Fillet Royale - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109832)

Noble sons - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108714)

Prometheus - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108954)

Full monty, the simpsons - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108584)

Where? - Mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109740)

Resident evil - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108520)

To keep the peace - Townie (uncompleted) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108643)

Furtuama drama - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107859)

Kung Fu Mafia - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107978)

Duel of Fates - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107819)

Spirit mafia - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107157)

Lunar whale - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107164)

Beefy187

01-18-2009, 01:01

Wow Ares. You've only been mafia once :sweatdrop:

Since we are both doubted, ill trust you. We are in the top 6 posters so I don't see how we are lurking.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

01-18-2009, 02:43

Not much time today, so I'll be quick.

Unvote: Abstain; Vote:Aries

Operating on the newbie theory. Taka had a good pick-up on the write-ups, although I agree with Tincow that it would not be wise to place too much on this. I know when I have been a mafioso before I have had a lot of fun trying to mess with write-ups and trying to hide the number of killers. Basicly Aries hasn't convinced me of his innocence, and Boudica hasn't had a chance to respond.

AFAIK Beefy is always erratic, but I don't think he is guilty at this stage.

Curio

taka

01-18-2009, 02:52

why does everyone think im a newbie? :S

Thermal

01-18-2009, 02:53

Operating on the newbie theory? I have completed 13 mafia games here, and i'm playing 3 now, i even moderate mafia at the total war centre, I am not a newbie, coincidentally you haven't played for a long time, how many games have you played? you may be more fitting for the "newbie theory." Seireikhaan, furthermore told beefy that i should be mafia in where mafia (i think) so hes hardly going to elect me again, and yes im always defensive so this isnt mafia behavior for me and people who have played mafia with me before know this.

Thermal

01-18-2009, 02:55

d.

AFAIK Beefy is always erratic, but I don't think he is guilty at this stage.

Curio

What degraded explanation, Beefy isn't always erratic, if he has clues he will use them, i don't think hes guilty isn't quite working, why? and why dont you think hes guilty at this stage, do you believe a cult will magically convert him! :furious3: ~:pissed:

:laugh4:

Thermal

01-18-2009, 02:56

I'M TOWN THROUGH AND THROUGH :bigcry:

Thermal

01-18-2009, 02:59

Furthermore if operating on a newbie theory you would vote for boudica, not that any newbies should necessarily be mafia, have a good laugh with your "veteran" mafia tactics, i havent seen such terrible theories in my life (even my own!)

taka

01-18-2009, 03:05

wow spammage :P

i've observed more than played being honest, but i know what im doing.

granted u played more than me, but if some of the older players can remember (around a year ago), i had a pretty good eye for spotting things, and singlehandedly found the mafia for one of the games i played (and no i wasnt detective)

so im fine if you don't really trust this newbie townie, just don't regret it ;)

GeneralHankerchief

01-18-2009, 03:11

blah blah blah I'm a mafioso

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/booyah.jpg

Thermal

01-18-2009, 03:13

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/booyah.jpg

:laugh4: i know every post i make gets me more votes, which is something i use at the end of the game when they realize i'm innocent, again....

Thermal

01-18-2009, 03:53

Golden rule - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=110184)

Fillet Royale - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109832)

Noble sons - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108714)

Prometheus - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108954)

Full monty, the simpsons - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108584)

Where? - Mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109740)

Resident evil - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108520)

To keep the peace - Townie (uncompleted) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108643)

Furtuama drama - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107859)

Kung Fu Mafia - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107978)

Duel of Fates - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107819)

Spirit mafia - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107157)

Lunar whale - Townie (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=107164)
...

GeneralHankerchief

01-18-2009, 03:58

Well, the town wasn't as productive as I would have liked this round but at least we got one mafioso down. With no clear-cut lynch choice still left hopefully next round will be better.

seireikhaan

01-18-2009, 04:09

Argh... I delayed this a bit to see if discussion would pick up a bit. Anyways, the round is over. I'm currently in the process of doing the tally (:furious3:). Lynch will be up in a bit.

seireikhaan

01-18-2009, 04:26

Ok, folks, I have the tally... and I'm NOT IMPRESSED. Ares has been lynched. Writeup/Carnage to be posted soon.

Ares-3 (TinCow, White_Eyes, Gaius Scribonius Curio)
Boudica-1 (Shlin28)
Shlin28-1 (LittleGrizzly)

Not voting- 14 (Andres, Ares, Beefy, Boudica, Caius, Lord Winter, Quintus JC, Reenk Roink, Sarathos, Sigurd, Taka, TevasSzat, Warluster, Warman)

GeneralHankerchief

01-18-2009, 04:31

I think it's more likely our mafia is found in the "voted" list.

Thermal

01-18-2009, 04:34

I think it's more likely our mafia is found in the "voted" list.

you had already illustrated your point before, no need to brag about aiding mafia

GeneralHankerchief

01-18-2009, 04:38

I'm talking about the remaining mafia.

taka

01-18-2009, 04:42

o crumpies, i totally forgot about voting lol!

seireikhaan

01-18-2009, 04:54

The town of Cicero trudged with gloom back to the police station, dreading any news that Chief Vonken might have. As if on cue, as the majority of people were arriving, Vonken, solemn, informed them of newly dead. The town's gloom seemed almost palpable, as if they had almost already accepted their fate. There was a modicum of discussion, but people almost seemed too sick of death to vote anyone else to a dark fate. However, when the vote was tally, Ares was found to have had the most votes lodged towards him. Ares slumped forward to Chief Vonken, knowing escape was impossible. "Ares, you have been found to be guilty of the killings. Do you have any last words?"

"Just one thing. When you kill me, could I be shot seven times?"

Chief Vonken raised an eyebrow. "Erm... Why?"

"Well, you see, I have this fetish... It kinda causes me to--" Chief Vonken cut off any further speech by granting the request, firing off seven shots at the odd man, not wanting anyone, including himself, to be subjected to the bizarre fantasies of a condemned man. Unfortunately, one shot missed by a hair, shooting past Ares and scoring a direct hit in the face of Sarathos. People in the town merely shrugged as the body fell. Nobody had really known him well, he didn't ever talk or anything. Not wanting to refuse the wishes of a dead man, Chief Vonken fired one last bullet into the chest of Ares. Eerily enough, as the town left for the night, a creepy grin was splaid across Ares' face as the body was taken to the graveyard by the mortuarian.

Tally:

Ares-3 (TinCow, White_Eyes, Gaius Scribonius Curio)
Boudica-1 (Shlin28)
Shlin28-1 (LittleGrizzly)

Not voting- 14 (Andres, Ares, Beefy, Boudica, Caius, Lord Winter, Quintus JC, Reenk Roink, Sarathos, Sigurd, Taka, TevasSzat, Warluster, Warman)\

Facing the Wrath of Khaan next round if they don't vote- 2 (Warluster, Warman)

Alive: 17

Andres
Beefy
Boudica
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio
LittleGrizzly
Lord Winter
QuintusJC
Reenk Roink
Sarathos
Shlin28
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
TinCow
Warluster
Warman
White_Eyes

Dead: 6
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)

Lynched: 3

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)
Ares777 (D3)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

WoK: 1

Sarathos (D3)

Thermal

01-18-2009, 04:54

o crumpies, i totally forgot about voting lol!

and me....

eagerly awaits write up....

Thermal

01-18-2009, 04:57

hehe, funny writeup, and that totally frames me, well looks like ill have to wait till the end to prove innocence

TinCow

01-18-2009, 05:02

why does everyone think im a newbie? :S

Your post count is pretty low, so I assumed you were new. Apologies if this is not the case.

TinCow

01-18-2009, 05:07

I think it's more likely our mafia is found in the "voted" list.

I couldn't agree more. I'm thinking less along the lines of Beefy are more towards Gaius and shlin, though I can't put my finger on anything specific about them yet.

taka

01-18-2009, 05:17

it's alright, im more rusty than newbie :P

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
I think it's more likely our mafia is found in the "voted" list.

i kinda didnt think about that, but it could be a very valid point. i guess we could try lynching each one :laugh4: there's enough of us to do so.

GeneralHankerchief

01-18-2009, 05:19

Oh yeah, taka, since you're around and I've been rereading Capo II for most of the day, I tried to kill you twice and succeeded on the second attempt in that game. Sorry about that.

White_eyes:D

01-18-2009, 05:23

Mafia has this in the bag:shame:.......there going after the most ACTIVE townie's:furious3:.....unless more people come online and VOTE we are going to lose :sweatdrop:

BTW, I am next.....since the Mafia's have show "we don't need a scapegoat":shame:

taka

01-18-2009, 05:25

Oh yeah, taka, since you're around and I've been rereading Capo II for most of the day, I tried to kill you twice and succeeded on the second attempt in that game. Sorry about that.

so it was YOUUUUUUUU!!!!!!! ~:pissed:

not happy with you now lol

you didnt kill me first time coz i was "super lucky" and all first kills were negated lol

i thought capo was too big a game for me, and then it put all the other games "out of order" lol

so back to topic, anymore insights on this game?

White_eyes:D

01-18-2009, 05:31

so back to topic, anymore insights on this game?

Town not active enough...... 14 non-voters last round...:wall:

Mafia's/Mafia is very BOLD thus far....killing suspects vs keeping them as scapegoat or lynch targets....:sweatdrop:

Lastly, we need a miracle in order to have a townie victory if this keeps up....:shame:

Beefy187

01-18-2009, 05:33

Umm.. :sweatdrop:

Firstly.. Sorry. My Messalinian campaign in EB was getting too intense. When I finally decided to go off.... I find that voting is finished

Next time ill vote before I go play EB

GeneralHankerchief

01-18-2009, 05:35

Beefy, what do you think of things right now?

Beefy187

01-18-2009, 05:44

The 14 who didn't vote are more likely to be just observing whats going on before they get in for the vote.

Other then a few, there is hardly a player who can be called a newbie. I think its done by the player who tried to frame the newbie not knowing that they played some number of games in the org.

My suspects are old vets who came back to play.

and I agree to White_eyes. Towns has to be much more active then the current state.

Other then that, I havn't got much to say.

Just for fun, ill guess who will die tonight just to get some discussion going.

My guesses are Sigurd and taka tonight.

taka

01-18-2009, 05:48

any reasons why u think sigurd and me, beefy?

Beefy187

01-18-2009, 05:50

any reasons why u think sigurd and me, beefy?

Not much. But if I get it right, im awesome

GeneralHankerchief

01-18-2009, 05:52

I'm waiting for the mafia to do just that now and try to get our heads spinning with more WIFOM.

Beefy187

01-18-2009, 05:58

I'm waiting for the mafia to do just that now and try to get our heads spinning with more WIFOM.

Least we get some discussions going:smash:

Sorry I got my monthly head ache.. Ill come back later

taka

01-18-2009, 06:02

i have a different opinion on who might be killed.

me. maybe

sigurd. maybe

but i dont think the combination of killing both me and sigurd in the same round is high

Gaius Scribonius Curio

01-18-2009, 06:51

:dizzy2:

Well that wasn't what I expected.....

@ Taka: same sort of reason as Tincow. Low post count/ not running into you before, my apologies. :bow:

@ Aries: Clearly you're a little ticked off... :no:
No I'm no 'vet', and I have readily admitted that on several occaisions throughout this thread, I fI implied that at any stage during my post then I apologise and take it back. As with Taka I haven't run into you in a game before, barring the Simpsons game recently hosted by ATPG, which I was way too busy with exams to actually follow. So that means I haven't played in two months, but I've still only seen you once... as above, my apologies, :bow:. Yes, my theories may be flawed, so don't back them up, or preferably point out where they go wrong. Don't just lazily wave a hand and say they are preposterous, explain why. I can only go off my own opinions, which I am posting in this thread for you to read, dissect and improve, for the town's benefit. If I think you are a good lynch choice I'll say so and vote so, and explain why I think so. Doesn't mean that I am right, just means that its what I think.

Don't get annoyed with me because three people voted for your lynching.

Reenk Roink

01-18-2009, 07:42

Ares is dead for what reason??? :inquisitive: :no: :shame:

Beefy187

01-18-2009, 08:05

Ares is dead for what reason??? :inquisitive: :no: :shame:

I feel a lot better now.

Ares was lynched due to our laziness. Both you and I can be blamed for not voting anyone :dizzy2::whip:

White_eyes:D

01-18-2009, 08:18

Ares is dead for what reason??? :inquisitive: :no: :shame:

Because you sat on your :daisy: and let Mafia and maybe only 3-4 people dominate discussion and voting.....:shrug:

:book:In my Mafia-playing guide book you messed up.....or succeeded, depending on which WIFOM you prefer.....:dizzy2:

FoS:Reenk Lurks too much and then complains about something he did NOTHING to prevent......:thumbsdown:

Quintus.JC

01-18-2009, 13:39

The town have very little lead at the moment, plus exam on Monday and coursework deadline on Tuesday means that I can contribute little to any game I'm participating right now. :bow:

Thermal

01-18-2009, 14:51

LittleGrizzly

01-18-2009, 15:42

wow alot of non voters!

I suspect whoever said the mafia are among the voters is right.... not sure where that really leaves us... Lynch all the active players!

Thermal

01-18-2009, 15:44

@GH, i finally realize what you were getting at now, excuse my slowness :bow:

Chaotix

01-18-2009, 18:09

I think, to find the mafia, you'll have to find someone who is fairly inactive, but at the same time drops in to post or vote just enough so that they are not WoG'ed. That way, they are blending in with the other absent players and not a lynch target.

Although I haven't been following the thread closely enough to find out who that might be... I hope my advice helps town in some way.

shlin28

01-18-2009, 18:18

Umm.. :sweatdrop:

Firstly.. Sorry. My Messalinian campaign in EB was getting too intense. When I finally decided to go off.... I find that voting is finished

Next time ill vote before I go play EB

Messalinian? What faction is that? :dizzy2:

Back on topic however, I feel that Ares' lynch is right given that he has been behaving abnormally. Furthermore, I still think its a relatively "new" player or a player who hasn't played for a while who is mafia :juggle:

*Awaits eagerly the night write up*

taka

01-18-2009, 18:36

FoS: Taka

I think he may have rigged the day write up to a certain extent, and was one of the few active players around when the write up was written, just a possibility.

you're really convinced im mafia dont you? well, im up for discussion and if u got something on me then let's share it: since i can't find anything on myself.

i just want to ask tho: how do you "rigged the day write up to a certain extent"? its either u rigged it or you havent. i personally dont think the mafia wrote the write-ups, coz i wouldn't leave ANY clues in it for townies to get.

i'm around at weird times coz the only time i can catch up is when im at home - not in the library revising.

i too, am eager for the write-ups, as i would like to see if my observations were correct

@Gaius Scribonius Curio - no need for apologies, its just a game :2thumbsup:

by the way, anyone heard from lord winter? he's not popped on for a long time

edit-
he was also the first to sign up, showing his eagerness - so nothing from him is quite suspicious imo

edit2-
and he's been online. i sense scummyness from him. how has he avoided radar for so long?

Andres

01-18-2009, 20:46

First of all, sorry for not participating the previous day. Family reunion on Saturday and one on Sunday. Just got back home.

1) Why did 777Ares777 get lynched?

2) I'm getting bad vibes from LittleGrizzly, too tired to reread the thread right now.

3)
It's certainly a curious choice. GH was under a lot of suspicion and Glyphz was attracting some as well. Eliminating both of them reduces the number of prominent suspects. This is a pretty heavy suggestion that the mafia are inexperienced. For that exact reason, I will conclude the opposite. I know that's WIFOM, but this is exactly what I would do (and have done) if I was mafia. Make the kills look amateurish to allow veteran players to hide easier.

TinCow, pray, tell me, what purpose did the underlined part of your post serve except for messing with our minds about your guilt or innocence? Read it again and you'll see that it's basically a confession.

:inquisitive:

Lord Winter

01-18-2009, 20:55

No wait Toka, what? I'm scummy because I signed up first? Before I knew my role? Can you tell me how that has any effect what so ever? Sorry I missed this round I was gone most of yesterday and just logged into the .Org to check on some things for concert of Europe.

I don't think we can say that the mafia voted in the last day with any degree of certainity. The maifas killing of active players would imply that they would have to stick to an inactive playing style, unless if they wanted to stick out like a sore thumb.

taka

01-18-2009, 21:20

No wait Toka, what? I'm scummy because I signed up first? Before I knew my role?

nooo...... as in; you were eager to sign up, so regardless of what role you have -mafia or townie, you should have participate more in the past few days.

so now that you're on, how come you haven't been on for the last few days?

how's your view on things?

you mentioned that mafia would have an inactive playing style... sounds like you're one of them atm...

btw, its taka not toka :)

TinCow

01-18-2009, 23:20

TinCow, pray, tell me, what purpose did the underlined part of your post serve except for messing with our minds about your guilt or innocence? Read it again and you'll see that it's basically a confession.

The purpose was to lend some weight to the idea that it's an actual strategy that mafioso can use, not just my own imaginings. Still WIFOM, I know, but I like to play by putting myself in my opponents shoes and thinking about what I would do if I were in their situation.

Thermal

01-18-2009, 23:54

Ares' lynch is right given that he has been behaving abnormally.

Which is my Townie behavior

@Taka

steady on, almost as hasty as i am, this is the first time i even suggested anything against you, with one inkling i'm hardly convinced your mafia, don't get your people mixed up

Beefy187

01-19-2009, 00:59

Messalinian? What faction is that? :dizzy2:

Back on topic however, I feel that Ares' lynch is right given that he has been behaving abnormally. Furthermore, I still think its a relatively "new" player or a player who hasn't played for a while who is mafia :juggle:

*Awaits eagerly the night write up*

Messalia or what ever that settlement is on South Gaul or North West of Italy. Modern day Marseilles. I shipped most of my unit of KH to Messalia and started a migration campaign which is not going that well :sweatdrop:

Ill come back when theres some kills

And I hope I'm confusing the mafias about their kills tonight

taka

01-19-2009, 02:02

@ ares

sorry man, i've been sleeping bad due to revision and weird sleeping times etc, and i can get a little moody and grumpy. hope its all good in the hood :2thumbsup:

Lord Winter

01-19-2009, 03:29

nooo...... as in; you were eager to sign up, so regardless of what role you have -mafia or townie, you should have participate more in the past few days.

so now that you're on, how come you haven't been on for the last few days?

how's your view on things?

you mentioned that mafia would have an inactive playing style... sounds like you're one of them atm...

btw, its taka not toka :)

Being first doesn't imply being eager just being the first one to see it. I'm sure you could find WoG victims as the first sign ups in other games.

I've had a combination of ski team and end of the semester stuff to deal with, hopefully that's past.

As for my views, there's no suspects that stand out now, I have to do a re-read of the thread and think on it. It seems the town is running short on info and that was what resulted in the lynch of Ares.

As mafia wouldn't I want the town to keep looking at the active players if I was following that strategy. All that argument will lead to is WIFOM. I'll try and increase my participation.

and sorry about misspelling your name.

seireikhaan

01-19-2009, 04:29

Shlin was laid out upon his front lawn, gazing that night up the stars. The rash of killings, the lynching of so many people... The whole thing was making Shlin reevaluate his place in this world. Against the stars, he seemed so insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Cicero seemed so insignificant. Breathing a sigh to himself, Shlin pulled himself off the grass, ready to head back inside. As he turned towards the door, a vehicle drove up to the curb behind him, before pulling to a stop. A man dressed in a nice suit jumped out the nearside door, a cigar puffing from his mouth. Shlin turned around to the man.

"Can I help you?" The man reached into the breast pocket of his suit, pulling a pistol from inside it.

"Yes." The man fired off several shots, each connecting with the chest and face of Shlin. The man hopped back into the vehicle as it drove off into the night, leaving the body remaining on the front lawn.

Quintus reached the door to his apartment building feeling, perhaps, a bit more secure than most in Cicero. The apartment complex served a fine base of security compared to an average house or neighborhood. Trudging up to the second floor, he reached the door to his apartment, key in hand. He inserted the key into the lock, but found it wouldn't unlock. Grasping the knob, he found the door was already unlocked. Raising an eyebrow, he opened the door cautiously. He barely had the time to react when he discovered a man with a shotgun in hand sitting in a chair just beyond the door. The man leveled the shotgun and blasted Quintus in the chest from a mere three feet away. Quintus staggered backwards, falling over the rail and down the stairs. The man heard a satisfactory crunching sound as the body continued its descent to ground floor.

Alive: 15

Andres
Beefy
Boudica
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio
LittleGrizzly
Lord Winter
Reenk Roink
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
TinCow
Warluster
Warman
White_Eyes

Dead: 8
CountArach (N1)
Tiberius of the Drake (N1)
YLC (N2)
Yoyoma (N2)
GeneralHankerchief (N3)
Glyphz (N3)
QuintusJC (N4)
Shlin28 (N4)

Lynched: 3

Chaotix (D1)
Askthepizzaguy (D2)
Ares777 (D3)

Suicide: 1

Hooahguy (D2)

WoK: 1

Sarathos (D3)

Voting Ends in roughly 24 hours. PLEASE KEEP THE TALLY.

taka

01-19-2009, 06:05

a much more ambiguous write-up regarding whether there is 2 or 1 mafia this time... however, i do still think that its one person because in america, the driver side is on the left and the
nearside door would be closer to the curb. i know that the car could be in the opposite direction, but chances wise, i think its still one mafia.

some points to note:

a finding to me is that all the first victims have "C" in their name. i dont know whether its pure coincidence or it could be a pattern... [edit] sorry i messed up on this one, its probably not true

another thing i just noticed is that there is no "trenchcoat" or "fedora" in the write ups. the mafia could have written tonight's write-ups after all the discussion we've had about it.

the style of the write-up seems to be slightly different from the others, another point which could indicate a mafia write-up

Reenk Roink

01-19-2009, 06:44

Vote: LordWinter, courteously :bow:

Tally:

Lord Winter, courteously :bow: 1 (Reenk Roink)

Beefy187

01-19-2009, 06:54

Vote: LittleGrizzly

If what taka said is true then the person is native English speaker (correct grammar and all). Combine it with the kill choice which suggests that the mafia is one of the vets.
The mafia is probably a semi lurker. Which suggests LittleGrizzly somehow.

With that guessing of the kill, I was hoping that people will comment on it, thinking that mafia wouldn't make a comment on who will end up dead. Unfortunately only two players commented directly on the kill choice I suggested and only a few commented on what I said (which is ok because I normally don't make much sense)

So FoS: Everyone who ignored me

TinCow

01-19-2009, 15:50

An interesting choice of kills. Both of those people were very high on my scum list. In addition, the first kill write-up again shows the shooter as the passenger in a vehicle, indicating that both mafioso are still alive.

Yesterday a very decent suggestion was put forth that the mafia were amongst the extremely small group of people who were active enough to vote. Those people were: TinCow, White_Eyes, Gaius Scribonius Curio, Shlin28, and LittleGrizzly. Of those, shlin is now dead. That leaves myself, White_Eyes, Gaius Scribonius Curio, and LittleGrizzly.

Vote: LittleGrizzly

Having played with you in Midgard II, I feel very confident that you have the ability to pull off a well faked role. Your play this entire game has been entirely normal as far as I can tell. Almost too normal. Active at all times, always posting once or twice per round, and never going out on a limb with your statements. You fit in perfectly with the town, saying just enough and just the right things to never come out looking like you're lurking or are scummy. So, please consider my vote for you as a sign of respect. You're a good player and your play style this game seems too perfect. :bow:

TevashSzat

01-19-2009, 18:37

I suppose I must apologize to Ares too for being too lazy to show up and vote....

Anyways, It is rather wierd how the mafia is trying to kill off the likely scum.

I'd rather not jump on a LittleGrizzly bandwagon so I will vote: White_Eyes until I am more certain of people I feel are scummy.

Tally:

Little Grizzly: 2 (Beefy, Tincow)

Lord Winter: 1 (Reenk)
White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)

White_eyes:D

01-19-2009, 18:41

Vote: LordWinter, courteously :bow:

Tally:

Lord Winter, courteously :bow: 1 (Reenk Roink)

Reenk you haven't been talking much......Vote:Reenk and yes:yes: this is a pressure vote.
I mean yesterday you seemed pissed that Ares got lynched.....but all you did was lurk and not say anything.....looks like somebody is trying to slip into the back round....:whip:

Lord Winter

01-19-2009, 18:45

Vote: Sigurd,

Unusualy quite.

Tally:

Little Grizzly: 2 (Beefy, Tincow)

Lord Winter: 1 (Reenk)
White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)
Reenk: 1 (White_eyes)
Sigurd 1 (Lord Winter)

Thermal

01-19-2009, 19:04

little grizzy hasnt played mafia for a while (or at all? not sure :) ), and he is one of those posters that posts just enough to avoid suspicion, he voted last round too yes? if you really are going for this strategy he ticks all the boxes

Andres

01-19-2009, 20:40

LittleGrizzly made 15 posts. I'm going to vote him on guts and instinct. Bolding the parts that triggered my suspicion.

A)

I like to get involved in the discussion a bit usually, if i think i have something worth saying (like stopping ATPG's suicide) ill say it. TBH i haven't played in a bit and can only remember the last game i played as mafia with TC and sarathos, there i was a little quieter, trying not to get too much attention, games where i wasn't mafia i can't remember too well tbh.

Basically my excuse is im free to be loud as a townie and try to be helpful.... this could always be reverse physcology though i guess....

B)

Firstly onto my varying levels of participation, i just happened to be around when ATPG's and TC's argument was going on, this gave me plenty to comment and think on. I have been told or generally believe that the more discussion the better for the town, this doesn't nessecarily always hold true but i tend to follow it. Also i don't really have a set routine so one day i could have hours to comment and discuss the thread another day i may not even get on the computer at all, which is what happened the first day and the session after the ATPG TC discussion.

I have been in a mafia before where they kept killing suspects off, im not a fan of it myself in mafia as its a risky strategy, but whilst its paying off you confuse the hell out of everyone and lead suspicion towards newer players. Im leaning towards a newer player myself... i have my suspicions of boudica, but im not sure if im basing that off too little and a bad gut instinct, i think i will leave this suspicion for a round or two as its a newer playerhe may just be acting new rather than scummy... i remember being quite attached to the abstain vote for my first few games... infact im even tempted now...

Okay im going to have to have another read through before i can pick a suitable suspect

Ohh and ATPG by all means keep contributing, especially now your a confirmed innocent, should help i hope...

C)

Going to put my vote on Shlin, not enough activity... he doesn't seem far off what i remember him being like in the thread i was mafia with him, i admit my convictions aren't too strong in this, but he does seem like mafia shlin...
Vote Shlin

D)

Just makes things more complicated, we won't even now if we got one of the buggers...

For what its worth though, from they way ATPG went down, i would call him practically confirmed, either that or him and his partner have some damn risky strategy going on...

E)

Well i was probably going to stick with my boudica vote from last round but when you stuck your vote there i felt a bit harsh bandwagoning the new player.... your quite possibly right you were a bit more active as mafia Shlin.... until i can find a better suspect my vote sticks

ohh and just to make sure

Vote Shlin28

incase it matters...

F)

wow alot of non voters!

I suspect whoever said the mafia are among the voters is right.... not sure where that really leaves us... Lynch all the active players!

It's the indecisiveness in those posts and the neutral sound in it. Always careful to avoid making a full frontal attack.

Now, this could also be explained by inexperience, but LittleGrizzly is not exactly what you would call "inexperienced".

Vote : LittleGrizzly

Andres

01-19-2009, 21:30

Tally:

Little Grizzly: 3 (Beefy, Tincow, Andres)

Lord Winter: 1 (Reenk)
White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)
Reenk: 1 (White_eyes)
Sigurd 1 (Lord Winter)

Lord Winter

01-19-2009, 21:34

Okay here's my attempt at some voting analysis after reading the thread, the record:

Andres- Chaotix27*, Askthepizzaguy*, No vote,
Beefy - Yoyoma1910, Askthepizzaguy*, No vote,
Boudica - Abstain, Abstain, No vote,
Caius - Abstain, No Vote, No vote,
Gaius Scribonius Curio - Boudica, Abstain, Ares*
LittleGrizzly - No Vote, Boudica, Shlin28,
Lord Winter - 187Beefyz, Andres, No Vote,
Reenk Roink - Abstain, Askthepizzaguy*, No Vote,
Sarathos - No Vote, No Vote, No Vote,
Sigurd - No Vote, Askthepizzaguy*, No Vote,
Taka - Abstain, Lord Winter, No Vote,
TevashSzat - Chaotix27,* GeneralHankerchief**, No Vote,
TinCow - Hooahguy, Askthepizzaguy*, Ares*,
Warluster - No Vote, No Vote, No Vote,
Warman - No Vote, No Vote, No Vote,
White_Eyes - Abstain, GeneralHankerchief**, Ares*

*lynched that round
**non lynching bandwagon

Out of these we can discount Cauis, Sarathos, Sigurd, Warluster and Warman as a combination of WoG bait and no recent activity beyond one or two posts. A level I doubt even a lurking mafia would sink down to.

A couple players jump out with lurking voting records, White_Eyes has been on a bandwagon ever round (if you count the abstain. His activity has also been enough to keep him from drawing suspicion for lurking, but at the same time has failed to contribute to anything.

TevashSzat, has also had minimal activity during the game. Of the two votes that he was present for, both were on bandwagons. We should try to pressure him into more participation.

LittleGrizzly's voting record shows a tendency to jump on popular targets (there was a small bandwagon of Shlin going on last round). However nothing is really drawing my suspicions to him. Call it a gut feeling, but he will not be getting my vote this round.

It must also be noted how well Tincow and Andres have thrown there weight around, each has been desivly involved with all three of the lynches. Both deserve further attention.

My main suspect is Gaius, he's had minimal activity. His post have been fairly thought out but rare and for some reason jump out at me. If he's paying that much attention to the game why not post more? Each of his votes have also been for fairly popular options, less likely to attract notice. For that reason I want to hear more from him.

Unvote: Sigurd
Vote: Gaius

Little Grizzly: (Beefy, Tincow, Andres)

Lord Winter: 1 (Reenk)
White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)
Reenk: 1 (White_eyes)
Gaius 1 (Lord Winter)

Reenk Roink

01-19-2009, 22:56

Reenk you haven't been talking much......Vote:Reenk and yes:yes: this is a pressure vote.
I mean yesterday you seemed pissed that Ares got lynched.....but all you did was lurk and not say anything.....looks like somebody is trying to slip into the back round....:whip:

A ton of people didn't vote and yet you pick on me! And I haven't been talking as much because I'm a boring old townie...

White_eyes:D

01-19-2009, 23:34

A ton of people didn't vote and yet you pick on me! And I haven't been talking as much because I'm a boring old townie...

@Reenk, you are avoiding my statement on why you were pissed that Ares was killed...:whip:
VERY SCUMMY:yes:

A couple players jump out with lurking voting records, White_Eyes has been on a bandwagon ever round (if you count the abstain. His activity has also been enough to keep him from drawing suspicion for lurking, but at the same time has failed to contribute to anything.

@Lord Winter I 'never jumped' on any bandwagon......everyone else (which is appallingly 5-6 people:no:)
jumped on with me.....I thought Ares might be a Mafia.....but I doubt it:shrug: and I contributed to a lot.....I helped try and see who would change their votes to save there Mafia buddy....No such luck:wall:

Edit: if you check and see I never changed my vote once...:grin2:

Reenk Roink

01-19-2009, 23:45

@Reenk, you are avoiding my statement on why you were pissed that Ares was killed...:whip:
VERY SCUMMY:yes:

Stop hounding me, isn't it obvious that was because I thought he was not guilty. :rolleyes:

TinCow

01-19-2009, 23:48

White_eyes:D

01-19-2009, 23:59

Can someone with more experience playing with Reenk Roink comment on whether he'd be likely to try and win as mafia by lurking? That seems like tactic that some veteran players would eschew, and RR's flamboyance in Ephesus has me thinking that would be bored playing as a lurking mafioso, but I'd like someone else's opinion on it.

I just want him to GET INVOLVED, even if he names me his Prime suspect and I get lynched.....we need town to get off it's :daisy: and start voting or otherwise the Mafia well just lurk his way to victory.....or win by having 1 vote more then the accused.....:rolleyes:

TinCow

01-20-2009, 00:03

I just want him to GET INVOLVED, even if he names me his Prime suspect and I get lynched.....we need town to get off it's :daisy: and start voting or otherwise the Mafia well just lurk his way to victory.....or win by having 1 vote more then the accused.....:rolleyes:

I completely agree with you, I'm just trying to figure out whether RR's low level of activity should be considered as evidence that he is not mafia.

GeneralHankerchief

01-20-2009, 00:06

Reenk is such a wild card that nothing's certain with him. However, I would guess that he's not mafia in this game.

Reenk Roink

01-20-2009, 00:07

I am Mafia.

Vote: Reenk Roink, extremely courteously :bow: :bow: :bow:

Thermal

01-20-2009, 00:07

i notice gaius waited till i defended myself last round then he voted for me after trying to pick holes in my defense, like he was just looking for an excuse

Thermal

01-20-2009, 00:08

I am Mafia.

Vote: Reenk Roink, extremely courteously :bow: :bow: :bow:

you and me both, lets go to the grave of holice and kill dead gerbils

Reenk Roink

01-20-2009, 00:10

I guarantee White_eyes:D will be killed next round, my partner can win this by himself.

Lord Winter

01-20-2009, 00:13

No wait I'm extremely confused, So Reenk and Aries are mafia?

unvote: Gaius
Vote: Reenk

I'm fairly hesitent to do this if Rennk is giving up that easy there has to be some purpose.

White_eyes:D

01-20-2009, 00:17

I guarantee White_eyes:D will be killed next round, my partner can win this by himself.

the WIFOM Reenk just put down is so deadly.....I could die off the smell......is he serious?:dizzy2:

Lord Winter

01-20-2009, 00:19

@Lord Winter I 'never jumped' on any bandwagon......everyone else (which is appallingly 5-6 people:no:)
jumped on with me.....I thought Ares might be a Mafia.....but I doubt it:shrug: and I contributed to a lot.....I helped try and see who would change their votes to save there Mafia buddy....No such luck:wall:

Edit: if you check and see I never changed my vote once...:grin2:

I went by what the voting record said, you have an history of voting for Bandwaggons. Looking back you have contributed, which doesn't prove your innocence.

Reenk Roink

01-20-2009, 00:21

Unvote: Reenk Roink
Vote: LittleGrizzly, courteously :bow:

Sorry got carried away.

By the way, this is how I wan't you to die White_eyes:D (up to khaan if he'll do it):

White_eyes:D was walking his dog down the street, enjoying all the new Christmas lights that had been put up. He was too engulfed with the Christmas lights to notice the red dot on his chest. Luckily there was someone there to point it out too him.

He heard someone screaming "WE Watch Out! There is a red dot on your chest! Its the Sniper!!!"

The man threw WE what appeared to be a bulletproof vest, and WE put it on without much thought. Not noticing that it was a vest covered with C-4 explosives!

It was too late to take off the vest though, the button was pushed, and WE went KABLOOEE!

A laser pointer was found at the scene of the crime...

This was my favorite kill ever, you should be honored. :bow:

White_eyes:D

01-20-2009, 00:25

I went by what the voting record said, you have an history of voting for Bandwaggons. Looking back you have contributed, which doesn't prove your innocence.

everyone else started them off me....I never put a gun to anyone's head.....:rolleyes:
and I think Reenk is just getting himself killed off......oh well no matter.......with this level of activity, town is gonna lose in 3 more nights.....

Edit: you might get your chance Reenk......I don't see anyone else voting for you......:shame:

Lord Winter

01-20-2009, 00:31

Thermal

01-20-2009, 00:37

No wait I'm extremely confused, So Reenk and Aries are mafia?

unvote: Gaius
Vote: Reenk

I'm fairly hesitent to do this if Rennk is giving up that easy there has to be some purpose.

no, i was joking :clown: not sure about reenk, pathetic thing to admit though, seriously :laugh4:

White_eyes:D

01-20-2009, 00:38

Tally
Little Grizzly: 4 (Beefy, Tincow, Andres, Reenk Roink)

Reenk: 2 (White_eyes, Lord Winter)

White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)

Well like I said in a hopeless battle in EB... "We all must die sometime....:skull:"

Reenk Roink

01-20-2009, 00:50

I was joking too you know... :clown:

I am not Mafia, just got kinda crazy after WE kept pestering me (IN 2 GAMES). :beam:

And don't worry, Mafia won't win this game. :bow:

Beefy187

01-20-2009, 00:51

I'm sorry but just for that, he has to die

Unvote, Vote: Reenk

Reenk Roink

01-20-2009, 00:52

COME ON! :wall:

Look this is incredibly dumb that I get lynched for this...

Thermal

01-20-2009, 00:59

COME ON! :wall:

Look this is incredibly dumb that I get lynched for this...

Don't worry, you can be buried beside me if you like ~:flirt: and we'll send the afterlife nitting shreddies like on that advert on television in underground shreddies factories :laugh4:

Beefy187

01-20-2009, 01:02

Its understandable. You do feel like lynching your self if your bandwagonned with horrible logic. But one thing the town must not do is vote for them self then vote for someone ales. That is just extremely scummy.

Unvote, Vote: LittleGrizzly

Just so that tally doesn't have to be updated. Im watching you Reenk

taka

01-20-2009, 01:22

bah what the heck,

Vote: Reenk

he was on my suspect list anyway

secretly in library posting... i'll go thru the post properly later

Beefy187

01-20-2009, 01:32

bah what the heck,

Vote: Reenk

he was on my suspect list anyway

secretly in library posting... i'll go thru the post properly later

Just get on to monastery or EB and say that its for researching history. Thats how I got through

Gaius Scribonius Curio

01-20-2009, 01:50

@ Lord Winter: In response to you raising my activity level. At the moment I'm off uni, but am working 6 days a week. Added to that my sporting commitments (at least 4 times per week) and going out on weekends, my window for posting is quite limited. If you'd like to check my posts have generally been, early evening (after work), or morning (before work), with a few exceptions (I'm in Perth, Australia GMT +9 atm).
That said I won't sign up for a mafia game and then not attempt to make conclusions, or get WoGed, or anything like that. I endeavour to be active, and to make a contribution, usually with some thought going into it.
I would like to hear how you came to the conclusion that I was voting for popular options. Apart from Aries I don't think you can back that up. In addition apart from Aries, all posts and votes that I made were early in rounds, before any real bandwagons could appear.
I rest my case. :bow:

@ Aries: When I voted for you I'd just got up and was rushing out, I expected the write-up to already be up, and it wasn't, so not wanting to avoid the issue by abstaining I chose to vote for the person who was top of my suspect list at the time, and attempted to explain why...

@ Reenk: :laugh4:

Off to work, for now...

Vote: Abstain

TinCow

01-20-2009, 02:21

Ethier way I think we have to kill Rennik. If he's Town (no clue why he'd claim mafia but its happened before), then we should kill him under Lynch all liers. If he's mafia, well we'll have to kill him anyway so we might as well get it done with.

Uh, no. How about we lynch the people who are actually acting suspicious rather than the people who are just being entertaining. :yes:

Lord Winter

01-20-2009, 02:34

It still promotes confusion and spawns a massive WIFOM. Overall the statement hirts the town. In this case its better to be safe then sorry and like Taka stated he's been acting suspiciously already. Besides we have to time for lynches its only day 4.

Also i've never gotten the case for Little Grizzly does anyone want to explain it in terms besides gut feelings?

Reenk Roink

01-20-2009, 02:47

I have no need to lynch an probable innocent and cause confusion anymore. Unvote: LittleGrizzly Vote: Reenk Roink.

Tally
Reenk: 4 (White_eyes, Lord Winter, taka, Reenk Roink)
Little Grizzly: 3 (Beefy, Tincow, Andres)
White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)

I do advise you town to take a close look at the people who jumped on me (Lord Winter and taka especially). I think that among the two, there is a good chance to find a Mafia. I'm not getting the scummy vibe from WE in this game.

Remember, Mafia would jump at the opportunity to hide for one more night, and I really believe one of them has done so.

I was just kinda annoyed that in a span of hours, my activeness in 3 Mafia games would go to 0 (2 due to WE even though I wasn't scum :wall:) so I decided to have a bit of fun. :bow:

White_eyes:D

01-20-2009, 02:52

I get the feeling Reenk is just messing around:shrug: let's see who changes his vote or maybe they won't...:no:

Tally

Reenk: 3 (Lord Winter, taka, Reenk Roink)
Little Grizzly: 3 (Beefy, Tincow, Andres)
White_Eyes: 1 (Tevash)
Unvote:Reenk Vote:Abstain

@Reenk, I have not got you lynched in the other game.....why so paranoid???:grin2:

GeneralHankerchief

01-20-2009, 02:56

2 due to WE even though I wasn't scum

Gee, I have absolutely no idea how you feel on this one. :devilish:

Reenk Roink

01-20-2009, 03:00

seireikhaan

01-20-2009, 03:17

Ok, folks, round is over...

And we have a tie. We go to tie-breaker. First amongst Reenk Roink or LittleGrizzly to receive another vote will be lynched. If one of those voting either Reenk or LG right now unvotes, it will automatically trigger the lynch of the other. However, votes may still be cast for other players.

Lord Winter

01-20-2009, 03:17

GeneralHankerchief

01-20-2009, 03:18

Somebody vote LG please.

Lord Winter

01-20-2009, 03:20

I still don't get why LG is such a great lynch choice.

TinCow

01-20-2009, 03:21

Interestingly, RR has actually swayed me somewhat and I am feeling like perhaps taka or WE would better warrant my vote. However, I'm at a point in this game where I'm heavily second guessing myself. I feel like I'm flailing in the dark by voting based exclusively on posting patterns.

Andres, I'm particularly interested in your opinion on the matter, since you're still alive. Are our votes really in the best place at the moment?

[edit] Ack, nm, seems I'm too late. Will keep my vote on LG though, as I do not think RR warrants a lynch. I urge others to pick LG over RR as well.

seireikhaan

01-20-2009, 03:21

Also, I'm going to be gone for the next hour at hall senate. Once the tie is broken, it is considered night phase, fyi.

TinCow

01-20-2009, 03:23

I still don't get why LG is such a great lynch choice.

He's not great, but his play style seems too 'clean' to me, almost surgically so. He's a very good player. I've seen him impersonate a townie extremely well, so I know he can do it. His play style is very cautious and non-controversial in this game. Active enough to avoid being seen as a lurker, yet not active enough to draw attentions.

[edit] In addition, don't forget that one day phase when almost no one voted. It is very good logic to assume that at least one mafioso voted in that phase. Those who are still living who voted then are myself, plus White_Eyes, Gaius Scribonius Curio, and LittleGrizzly. Thus, in a contest between LG and RR, LG is a better vote based on that as well.

Lord Winter

01-20-2009, 06:02

He's not great, but his play style seems too 'clean' to me, almost surgically so. He's a very good player. I've seen him impersonate a townie extremely well, so I know he can do it. His play style is very cautious and non-controversial in this game. Active enough to avoid being seen as a lurker, yet not active enough to draw attentions.

[edit] In addition, don't forget that one day phase when almost no one voted. It is very good logic to assume that at least one mafioso voted in that phase. Those who are still living who voted then are myself, plus White_Eyes, Gaius Scribonius Curio, and LittleGrizzly. Thus, in a contest between LG and RR, LG is a better vote based on that as well.
:bow:

White_eyes:D

01-20-2009, 06:19

FINE I messed up accusing Reenk so much, that I will take the fall.....:shame:
Unvote:abstain Vote:LittleGrizzly I really messed up I think.....but if this was Reenk's gambit then he reads me like a book....:book:

Beefy187

01-20-2009, 06:38

LittleGrizzly

01-20-2009, 07:16

damn it!

if i could have got here just a bit earlier i could have saved myself!!

ohh well, to the shooting squad i go... one last cigerette is my only request :)

onto scum hunting... the theory about 1 mafia voting on that day where loads of people didn't vote seems accurate to me... so with me and shlin dead you want to check out

TinCow
White Eyes
and Gaius

My suspicion out of those 3 goes towards gaius because he's ohh so helpful, and TC partly for building the case against me, and partly because he was very skilled at encouraging the town to lynch targets, i can't say i now white eyes too well but he's acting a little dodgy that may be his style though so i can't confidently point the finger at white eyes

A strategy of voting those 3 may be a good idea, of course on the other hand we could end up killing off some of our best townies well a lurking mafia hides in the background...

I also have a slight suspicion of andres, he seems to have been building me up for a lynch for a few days, of course he could just think i am mafia but it is a good tactic as mafia to slowly introduce potential targets for upcoming lynches, which andres didmost successfully.... that being said im more a fan of going for the list of people above who voted on that day... just keep andres in mind

To think being active on that day is potentially what finished me off... and could be a leading cause for the lynches of some others... kind of ironic...

well ill stick around a bit use my devestating powers of logic to help the town, lets see if we can get em!

seireikhaan

01-20-2009, 08:03

LG has been lynched. Warman and Warluster have been WoK'd. I'll get a proper writeup in the morning-- its 1 am here, and I seriously need sleep. Please send me night orders within 18 hours.

Beefy187

01-20-2009, 08:57

I had a massive analysis but while my analysis sucks anyway, I'll avoid giving any ideas to mafia by posting it on the day phase.

EDIT: ok I pasted on the note pad. Its not much..

taka

01-20-2009, 09:26

Just get on to monastery or EB and say that its for researching history. Thats how I got through

lol. well im actually in library helping two girls do their coursework (:beam:) which needs to be handed in....today lol. kinda been in library all day.

as with the lynch, either RR or LG was good for me. i myself was gonna vote LG until RR came up with the i am mafia thing.

so even now that LG is gone, i think i would vote for RR next unless something more interesting comes up. call me stubborn or whatever, but i personally feel admitting mafia is a must go, joking or not.

Beefy187

01-20-2009, 10:32

lol. well im actually in library helping two girls do their coursework (:beam:) which needs to be handed in....today lol. kinda been in library all day.

as with the lynch, either RR or LG was good for me. i myself was gonna vote LG until RR came up with the i am mafia thing.

so even now that LG is gone, i think i would vote for RR next unless something more interesting comes up. call me stubborn or whatever, but i personally feel admitting mafia is a must go, joking or not.

I wonder what your definition of coursework is :smash:

boudica

01-20-2009, 11:03

Sorry not to have got a vote in 'Khaan. RL has been an infernal pest since the end of last week.

Well - now that I've caught up, its' only fair to throw throw a few thoughts into the air and see if they get shot down...

Although I shouldn't complain about something I could have changed if I'd been online myself, I think White Eyes shouldn't have tipped the vote for LG to get lynched as Reenk appeared (between the two of them) to be 'acting' up much more - also - purely based on reading through 5 pages of posts & imagining the text being spoken by the poster - I agree with LG's list of suspicion o- particularly FoS Gaius. Well - if any of them get whacked tonight I'll stand corrected :)

Apologies once again for being out of the discussion, I'll certainly try to contribute much more this week.

taka

01-20-2009, 12:33

I wonder what your definition of coursework is :smash:

hehe :beam:

of course it means - this :book: atm hahaha~ but see how it goes from here init :2thumbsup:

Askthepizzaguy

01-20-2009, 14:58

hehe, funny writeup, and that totally frames me, well looks like ill have to wait till the end to prove innocence

One person suggested I keep contributing. Take this with a grain of salt.

I can confirm I was "framed", so to speak. I tend to believe Ares that he was too.

TinCow, pray, tell me, what purpose did the underlined part of your post serve except for messing with our minds about your guilt or innocence? Read it again and you'll see that it's basically a confession.

:inquisitive:

COME ON! :wall:

Look this is incredibly dumb that I get lynched for this...

Tell me about it.

Okay, so... TinCow still alive, and not getting many votes, after I called on his investigation. (No telling whether there is an investigator alive, nor if they care to listen to me).

But think fellows and gals, if there is a strong possibility he would be investigated, if he's a veteran player and active townie, if he's no longer a suspect in people's minds... why would the mafia keep him alive?

You never gave me TinCow's head. You must decide whether that was a wise choice. I didn't search through everything in the thread with a fine-tooth comb, but so far as I know he hasn't been exonerated.

Maybe "crazy" old Pizzaguy with his "suicidal" ways that "squelch" discussion was a townie, and onto something. Just throwing that out there. TinCow gets a big apology if I am wrong, but the fact that he lives is hilarious to me. Mafia are either consciously choosing to keep him alive, (theory I had about GH in Ephesus) or he is the mafia.

Choose.

Andres - odd that he's still alive too.
Beefy
Boudica
Caius
Gaius Scribonius Curio
LittleGrizzly
Lord Winter
Reenk Roink
Sarathos
Sigurd
Taka
TevashSzat
TinCow - Everyone knows how I feel about him in this game by now.
Warluster - Wog bait
Warman - Wog bait
White_Eyes

If TinCow dies tonight, well, I'll just have to shut the heck up then, won't I? :laugh4:

Andres

01-20-2009, 15:33

Of course, there's always the possiblity of ATPG being a lynched mafioso, trying to mess with our minds... :shrug:

Askthepizzaguy

01-20-2009, 15:45

You know Andres, the more you talk, the more certain I am that you're a mafioso. You were all about defending Tincow that day, and then later you distanced yourself.

I KNOW people may assume I am a dead mafioso, and fine. Whatever. But you're still alive, I have to wonder why that is.

Andres, I'm particularly interested in your opinion on the matter, since you're still alive. Are our votes really in the best place at the moment?

Tincow posted this. Why would Tincow be interested in your opinion, "since you're still alive?" And why would he portray himself as a follower, not figuring things out for himself, with everyone under equal suspicion? TinCow is an experienced player, and I don't understand why he would act (with all due respect if this is accidental on his part) naive and innocent?

Nothing adds up with you two. TinCow in particular. Also, it's nice to see you're online and active at night time, Andres.

Askthepizzaguy

01-20-2009, 15:49

TinCow

01-20-2009, 16:08

Tincow posted this. Why would Tincow be interested in your opinion, "since you're still alive?" And why would he portray himself as a follower, not figuring things out for himself, with everyone under equal suspicion? TinCow is an experienced player, and I don't understand why he would act (with all due respect if this is accidental on his part) naive and innocent?

Nothing adds up with you two. TinCow in particular. Also, it's nice to see you're online and active at night time, Andres.

I care about his opinion because he can vote as well. He is thus more useful than someone who is dead. If living townies cooperate on lynches and work through the evidence, it works better than each person working solo and voting to lynch on their own. I want to develop some kind of rapport with Andres because he seems to be the most level-headed and useful player still alive in this game. Talking to the dead can be useful for advice, but it has limited value since the dead can't help you lynch someone.

If you actually paid attention to this game, you would note that I've specifically been asking for advice from many dead people for a long time. You're either being lazy and not reading the thread, or you're railroading me for your own purposes.

Andres

01-20-2009, 16:11

By the way Andres, if you are a townie and were somehow exonerated earlier, show me, and I'll shut up. I have not analyzed every microbe of this thread, something I will do tonight. But you and tincow still alive... that tells me that the mafioso are experienced.

Leaving you alive is a deliberate attempt to make you seem guilty. Or, you're the culprits. Those are the only two options in my mind. Which means either you're mafia, or its another veteran. Like TinCow.

What's next?

A suggestion to lynch myself to prove I'm innocent?

Please ATPG, read the thread carefully and you will note that LittleGrizzly and TinCow are on my suspect list. Linking me to TC doesn't make sense. Oh, I can hear you crying WIFOM already, but I don't believe in WIFOM. If something doesn't make sense, it simply doesn't make sense. WIFOM leads to nowhere, as is implied in its' meaning.

I was quite happy with LG being lynched. Maybe I'll look into TinCow next round. Maybe I'll wait until the last round, just to annoy you, you evil mafia ghost ~;)

Askthepizzaguy

01-20-2009, 16:16

:mellow:

The fact that both you and Tincow are so viciously defensive whenever I show up, berating me to read the thread, is hysterical.

The fact that Tincow's comment "if you actually paid attention to this game" is worded in such a harsh and sarcastic way, uncharacteristic of him, tells me he just HATES the fact that I keep accusing him. It really, really bothers him.

If he were a townie, he would attempt to reason his way out, but both Andres and TinCow are satisfied with bullying tactics.

:laugh4:

It's funny you're both online at the same time, at night. Discussing strategies? But not in this thread of course.

Andres

01-20-2009, 16:19

Will you shut up if I suicide?

OOC: All is well, I enjoy this duel of words :bow: Allthough I have to admit that IC, I'm tempted to ask the town to dig up your body in the next phase and lynch you again, just for good measure :brood:

Askthepizzaguy

01-20-2009, 16:21

You may only commit suicide if you are absolutely unable to continue participation. I do not allow suicides for any other reason.

Rules, Andres.

And nice WIFOM tactic.

TinCow

01-20-2009, 16:21

If he were a townie, he would attempt to reason his way out, but both Andres and TinCow are satisfied with bullying tactics.

Reasoning tactics? Like the entire explanation I gave for my statement before closing with my attack on you? Nice of you to ignore what I say when it serves your own purposes.