the spartan agoge

[Roka]

i'm playing as makedonia (1.2) and i have conquered sparte, if i destroy the KH's type 1 govt. can i still send young family members to take part in the agoge?

[Antinous]

I know that doesn't make any sense, but I think the thought though is that the makedonians are still technically greeks so you can send your kids to be trained in the agoge.

[desert]

I'm pretty sure ownership of Sparta is the only requirement, aside from being a Hellenic faction.

[Roka]

I know that doesn't make any sense, but I think the thought though is that the makedonians are still technically greeks so you can send your kids to be trained in the agoge.

yeah, i realise you can send them to the agoge, but i took it over maybe 20 years ago in the game and have sent many a young makedonian general there, what i want to know is if i destroy the koinon hellenon type governemtn that was there when i invaded and put in a makedonian government will i still be able to send family members to the agoge

[Antinous]

Oh ya. I did that when I took Sparte and installed a type one gov. The type of gov doesn't affect the agoge system at all.

[Maion Maroneios]

In my campaigns as Makedonia, I simply conquer Sparte and install a lvl 4 government type. When you have a young general (16yo) that can take part in the Agoge, you will be informed of it.

So yes, you can (actually have) to destroy the existing government system in Sparte.

Maion

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The KH "Type1 : Agoge" government has no connection to the script/traits concerning generals being educated at the agoge in sparta. As always, destroy all enemy governments when you take a town. The two things named "Agoge" in EB, have not gameplay connection.

[Roka]

you don't actually have to destroy the type 1 gvt. already installed in sparte when you take over, and i have a few family members including the current basileus who have completed the agoge

but i'll install a makedonian gvt. once i have the chance to play again

[Maion Maroneios]

you don't actually have to destroy the type 1 gvt. already installed in sparte when you take over, and i have a few family members including the current basileus who have completed the agoge

but i'll install a makedonian gvt. once i have the chance to play again
Actually, you have to. For practical reasons. Enemy government buildings do not work for you, even if you repair them. So it will be like having no government building at all, which you don't want.

Maion

[Nachtmeister]

Actually, you have to. For practical reasons. Enemy government buildings do not work for you, even if you repair them. So it will be like having no government building at all, which you don't want.

Maion



In terms of nice roleplaying and intended use, I agree. But technically I must disagree:
In my KH campaign, I instead repaired the makedonian type I governments in Demetrias and Pella upon conquest, saving 2+3/4 years (11seasons) construction time and enabling me to run Pella as a Type I city; could build all native MIC levels and recruit all native KH troops for those provinces; no culture penalties or public order trouble encountered, both cities garrisoned with 2xAkontistai and a FM for 20 years, both got massive admin bonuses over time.
So, in *technical* terms leaving or destroying governments depends on which faction set them up and with culturally similar factions you actually never should destroy a gov't building.

off-topic:
btw, why does KH not get a homeland resource in *the* greek city of Korinthos? And Syrakousai!! I mean, sure, historically the KH pretty much lost to Makedonia and then Rome took over iirc, but this game is all about alternate history, right? And how does setting up 100%damaged KH-government buildings in victory-condition-cities sound? Would make it possible to take them and set up a sufficient garrison without having to
- either spam tree full stacks for one city (try taking Sinope and holding it with any less but without horse archers or other non-greek tactics on VH campaign mode)
- or conquer roughly the historical western expansion area of the roman empire plus all of anatolia, raze Babylon and Seleukeia, kill all Ptolemaioi FM and fight constant wars with the Sauromatae in the north to hold all those scattered colonies.

:focus:

Anyway, enemy government buildings actually *do* work for you - but they can also give you a culture penalty.

[Subotan]

In my KH campaign, I instead repaired the makedonian type I governments in Demetrias and Pella upon conquest, saving 2+3/4 years (11seasons) construction time and enabling me to run Pella as a Type I city; could build all native MIC levels and recruit all native KH troops for those provinces; no culture penalties or public order trouble encountered, both cities garrisoned with 2xAkontistai and a FM for 20 years, both got massive admin bonuses over time.


Technically, that's an exploit.



off-topic:
btw, why does KH not get a homeland resource in *the* greek city of Korinthos? And Syrakousai!! I mean, sure, historically the KH pretty much lost to Makedonia and then Rome took over iirc, but this game is all about alternate history, right? And how does setting up 100%damaged KH-government buildings in victory-condition-cities sound? Would make it possible to take them and set up a sufficient garrison without having to
- either spam tree full stacks for one city (try taking Sinope and holding it with any less but without .

For KH, the type one represents the Spartan Agoge. And it's only 10 turns, it's not like you're building Level 2 mines.

[Nachtmeister]

Technically, that's an exploit.

I said something about nice roleplaying and intended use in my previous post to adress this.



For KH, the type one represents the Spartan Agoge. And it's only 10 turns, it's not like you're building Level 2 mines.

No, it's only like building *half* a metalleutikon kentron. :eyebrows:
Seriously, the time spent on building government AND MIC3 is too much if you want to make it to strategically vital places like Antiocheia before they turn into huge cities and you get stuck with a rediculously high culture penalty until 14AD.
Unless you want to trade an exploit for a move_character cheat to stop the AI from building the next level of governor's residence by razing everything to the ground and removing some more population by means of console commands.
Or is there some way to directly spawn, edit or remove buildings (governor's residence, specifically) other than via the ingame-interface?

[Olaf The Great]

Makedonia can send their young to the agoge, but they can't continue their education unless they're Spartans(16-18,but not 18-20).

I think if you bribe a spartan family their "Spartan" trait passes down.

[Nachtmeister]

Does bribing work like adoption, then?
Akrotatos Eurypontidos Lakedaimonios is "venal" right from the start of the campaign whereas everyone else is very loyal, so anyone from the Eurypontidos branch of the KH family is worth a try for bribing. However, he also has the otherwise worst traits of all KH generals (dull/uncharismatic AND languorous as of EB1.2).

[desert]

But he's a future king of Sparta, so there's no way you would be able to buy him.

[Mooks]

Never played a hellenistic faction before (Despise Hoplites). What does the agoge do?

[Ludens]

Never played a hellenistic faction before (Despise Hoplites). What does the agoge do?

There is a description thread. Essentially, if you let a young family member (that is: one with the "young" trait: adopted FM, son-in-laws and men-of-the-hours never have this and therefore cannot participate) stay in Sparta, he will go acquire a series of traits to simulate his progress through the agoge. This depends on his primary characteristics (intelligence, energy) and whether or not you obey the rules laid out in these traits. If he completes the agoge, he may gain an influence and morale bonus. He also may have participated in the krypteia. Both the agoge and krypteia traits affect the acquisition of other traits.