USS Constitution? [Archive]

pyradyn

02-12-2009, 20:01

For special additions just go to Gamestop and pre-order the game. Walmart will not take pre-orders they are walmart and they will only be getting in the normal 50 buck addition. It is 70 dollars for the pre-order and the only way to physically get the collecters addition here. Also a lot of small game stores like some in my area Gamers anonymous and Play N Trade will take pre-orders. Even though GA usually only sells NES SNES Sega PS1 and N64 games they do a few pc. Online or Steam is only other way but online has shipping costs too. Plus International shipping is always fun....

Belgolas

02-12-2009, 22:04

Well I bought a game that had an exclusive edition only available in Europe and it had like 9 buck shipping and arived sooner then most stuff from the States (I live in Canada). Also I didn't have to pay brokerage fees. So I prefer to order from them if it is an exclusive to Europe.
http://www.game.co.uk/search.aspx?platform=*&s=Empire+Total+War&sort=itemOrderasc

You get a free unit for pre purchasing called the Death's Head Hussars.

Barkhorn1x

02-12-2009, 22:36

That wouldn't surprise me actually. I remember when, probably the best WWII sim had problems with several US aircraft manufacturers due to the fact that planes over 50 years old were used in the sim.
That was IL2-Sturmovik btw.

V.

Off topic - sorry to waste bandwidth.

The issue there was that instead of using the a/c names like Wildcat and Avenger, UBI Soft went ahead and used the name Grumman Wildcat and Grumman Avenger. And Northrop-Grumman got all in a huff and claimed TM infringement (how they get to trademark the names of US taxpayer purchased stuff is anybodies guess). They worked out a deal in the end where they would not sue and have UBI remove the content - BUT - UBI just decided that this was the end of any american a/c additions to the franchise. So we missed out on a great looking TBD Devastator and a number of other a/c.

A real shame.

Sheogorath

02-12-2009, 23:44

Fisherking

02-12-2009, 23:56

I dont think the manufacturers of the USS Constitution are around anymore. :tongueg:

Sure they are…the US Government…though the shipyard is closed…

Sheogorath

02-13-2009, 00:01

Sure they are…the US Government…though the shipyard is closed…

As I recall, it was built by a private company for the US government.

Yup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Hartt

ScipioAfricanus

02-13-2009, 08:30

Is there a way for a US buyer to get both the USS Constitution and the Special Forces/Collector's Edition.

NimitsTexan,
According to totalwar.com (under Pre-Order), the U.S.S. Constitution is available as an in-game download when E:TW is pre-ordered or purchased from Best Buy. However, I see no mention of that on the BB website.

The totalwar site also shows that the Special Forces Edition can be pre-ordered via Steam. I saw no mention of the SF Edition on Best Buy's site but Amazon has both editions listed (no mention of the Constitution download though).

There may be some other places offering the in-game download but the three that I mentioned are the only ones that I checked.

Mailman653

02-13-2009, 08:32

I wonder how the unit will differ from a ship of the line. What would motivate me to build the ship if its available when I can equally build a triple decked ship with more firepower.

And where does it say the ship is a special pre-order thing? Cause I've seen this story about the special unit for quite some time.

Zoring

02-13-2009, 08:58

Also we can rename everything so

1st Rate 3 Deck ship

type type type

USS Constitution.

Ta da!

ScipioAfricanus

02-13-2009, 09:05

I wonder how the unit will differ from a ship of the line. What would motivate me to build the ship if its available when I can equally build a triple decked ship with more firepower.

Mailman, could it have something to do with the timing of when it's available in the game, specifically for the Americans? Maybe it's one of those things where the better ships aren't available for the Americans early in the game but then the Constitution eventually becomes obsolete.

And where does it say the ship is a special pre-order thing? Cause I've seen this story about the special unit for quite some time.

Not special pre-order but exclusive to certain retailers, like BB. In my post you'll see that it says "the U.S.S. Constitution is available as an in-game download when E:TW is pre-ordered or purchased from Best Buy." I looked at Gamestop just now and they don't show it, didn't see it on the Amazon listing either. It's really hard to tell what the picture shows on the BB website but there is something in the upper right-hand corner that I didn't see in the package pictures on other sites.

On the page linked below CA/Sega show it under Pre Order a Box Copy in Retail but further inspection shows that it doesn't have to be pre-ordered from them, as in the quote in my last paragraph.

A Google search showed that Play.com is supposed to have the exclusive in the UK. I actually noticed that when I was searching for retailers that were carrying the download in general to see if there were any other US retailers.

Source: http://www.totalwar.com/empire/gameinfo/pre_order.php

Fisherking

02-13-2009, 09:07

@NimitsTexan

All that I have seen says that Play.com has exclusive rights to the ship.

All I can suggest is to call and ask about the shipping. I asked the question when I first saw it, why a UK company had the rights to her…

@Mailman653

The American 44s were fast and heavily built. They are expellant raiders and can out run almost any ship at sea.

One of the 44s caught and captured the fastest ship in the French Navy (and the French had the best ships built in Europe at the time) If there were a faster ship, say in the British Navy, it was surely captured from the French.

Cost and need dictate what ships you build. If you think you have the money and time to build a navy that can rule the sea then you go for the Ship of the Line type. If you have to be a stealthy raider you build squadrons of frigates to hit weaker ships and run from the big boys.

Husar

02-13-2009, 11:21

Freedom Onanist

02-13-2009, 11:32

@NimitsTexan The American 44s were fast and heavily built. They are expellant raiders and can out run almost any ship at sea.

One of the 44s caught and captured the fastest ship in the French Navy (and the French had the best ships built in Europe at the time) If there were a faster ship, say in the British Navy, it was surely captured from the French.

Cost and need dictate what ships you build. If you think you have the money and time to build a navy that can rule the sea then you go for the Ship of the Line type. If you have to be a stealthy raider you build squadrons of frigates to hit weaker ships and run from the big boys.Yep,it was wellknownintheBritishnavythatthe best sailors were French ships. Probably not down to an inaiity to build good ships in the UK,just that the numbers built tended to average down the quality.

As Fisherking says, it must depend on your resources and tatics. Surely not only can you build a 3 decker but other factions can build 44s too. Which the British belatedly did. There's got to be somethingmore to the USS Constitution.

scipiosgoblin

02-13-2009, 17:02

As Fisherking says, it must depend on your resources and tatics. Surely not only can you build a 3 decker but other factions can build 44s too. Which the British belatedly did. There's got to be somethingmore to the USS Constitution.

In reality, USS Constitution was a well handled, rapid firing frigate that helped to destroy the Barbary Pirates. Later she fought and won a frigate dual against HMS Serapis. :captain:

Because Constitution was so handy and well handled, she was able to do to the Serapis what the French hand been trying to do for years. Namely, she outmaneuvered the Serapis and shot away the rigging on the British ship. By the time Constitution came alongside to board, Serapis was helplessly dismasted. Her Captain eventually struck colors and surrendered Serapis who later that day burned to the waterline and sank.

Constitution proved that an American ship and crew could outfight the British Navy at sea. :aquarius:

SG

Greyblades

02-13-2009, 17:26

Barkhorn1x

02-13-2009, 18:00

Although it may not be my place to question your info scipiousgoblin, wikipedia (which is probably not the most reliable of sources but still...) says it was the USS Bonhomme Richard that took the serapsis not the Constitution .

Correct, he's thinking of the HMS Guerriere.

On US Navy vs. Royal Navy in the War of 1812:
The quality of US crews was, on average, much higher than that of the Royal Navy during the war - due to a combination of higher pay and better living conditions as compared to the US merchant marine. But the primary reason was size. The US fleet numbered in the dozens, the Royal Navy had hundreds. The US Navy had the luxury of picking their crews from an overabundance of applicants. The Royal navy had major issues crewing their ships (perhaps you lot shouldn't have flogged quite so much :idea2:) and took whoever they could (literally) get their hands on.

Greyblades

02-13-2009, 18:12

Correct, he's thinking of the HMS Guerriere.

On US Navy vs. Royal Navy in the War of 1812:
The quality of US crews was, on average, much higher than that of the Royal Navy during the war - due to a combination of higher pay and better living conditions as compared to the US merchant marine. But the primary reason was size. The US fleet numbered in the dozens, the Royal Navy had hundreds. The US Navy had the luxury of picking their crews from an overabundance of applicants. The Royal navy had major issues crewing their ships (perhaps you lot shouldn't have flogged quite so much :idea2:) and took whoever they could (literally) get their hands on.

If I remember reading rightly :book: we were thrashing the Americans in the naval front until the French got involved. And even then it was a mixtures of successes and failures.
Also, when did we get a reputaion for flogging our sailors?

Barkhorn1x

02-13-2009, 18:44

If I remember reading rightly :book: we were thrashing the Americans in the naval front until the French got involved. And even then it was a mixtures of successes and failures.
Also, when did we get a reputaion for flogging our sailors?

You must mean the our Revolution - I was referring to the War of 1812.

Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said "Don't talk to me about Naval Tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash"? :laugh4:

Greyblades

02-13-2009, 19:09

You must mean the our Revolution - I was referring to the War of 1812.
:oops: i guess i got them mixed up. :sweatdrop:

Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said "Don't talk to me about Naval Tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash"? :laugh4:

no that was the pogues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum,_Sodomy,_and_the_Lash)
:laugh4:

NimitsTexan

02-13-2009, 21:56

The USS Constitution is the Play.com exclusive unit so you will just get it from Play.com because that is what exclusive deals are about, if you order the special forces edition from Play.com you will get the special forces extra units and the Play.com exclusive USS Constitution.

As a "Yank," I don't believe Play.com is an option . . . which is bugging me. USS Constitution is my favorite ship of all time; it should not be a UK/EU exclusive . . .

scipiosgoblin

02-13-2009, 23:22

Although it may not be my place to question your info scipiousgoblin, wikipedia (which is probably not the most reliable of sources but still...) says it was the USS Bonhomme Richard that took the serapsis not the Constitution .

~:doh:
Absolutely correct. It was Guerriere. I always get those two mixed up in my head. Guerriere was a French built 38 gun frigate captured by HMS Blanche. She was bought by the Royal Navy.

Sorry about that.

As for Bonhomme Richard, she was a scow and only the insanity ... I mean bravery of her captain allowed her to capture Serapis.

SG

Greyblades

02-13-2009, 23:40

Sir Beane

02-14-2009, 00:03

Insane as in setting fire to his own ship to get a 5th rate? :oops:

...I wonder if that could be an option in the game; the ability to set any ship on fire in an effort to take the enemy with you? :idea: Somehow i doubt that there were any ships built specificaly to set on fire so it may be posible.

Random thought: maybe someone should make a smiley specificaly to say "please EA"

Actually there were ships taken intop battle specifically so that they could be set alitght. Old or cheap ships were used most frequently. They were filled with incendiary material and sailed at enemy ships in an attempt to set them alight.

A slighty more advanced version of this tactic is the bomb ship. These were full to the brim with gunpowder, and were ignited once they ahd drifted near enough to an enemy ship. They were also apparently used to attack buildings and docks close to the water.

Fireships and bombships might be in the game. CA did say that if your own ship is on fire you could make an attempt to set the enemy on fire by sailing it at them. :2thumbsup:

Greyblades

02-14-2009, 00:15

By "Somehow i doubt that there were any ships built specificaly to set on fire" I meant I don't think that govenments spent hundreds of... whatever currency they were using and acres of woodland just to make a new ship that was supposed to blow up the second they get near an enemy.

Just clearing that up. :sweatdrop:

scipiosgoblin

02-14-2009, 00:16

Insane as in setting fire to his own ship to get a 5th rate? :oops:

...I wonder if that could be an option in the game; the ability to set any ship on fire in an effort to take the enemy with you? :idea: Somehow i doubt that there were any ships built specificaly to set on fire so it may be posible.

Random thought: maybe someone should make a smiley specificaly to say "please EA"

Insane yeah. Do you remember where he set the fire? With grenades no less.

He threw grenades into the powder magazine and told the enemy captain to surender and his crew would would help put out fires and sail them all to safety.

I love John Paul Jones. He's the father of the greatest Navy on Earth. But he was also a certifiable nut. :2cents:

I would love to see fireships in the game. I'd also like to see cutting out expeditions for ships anchored in a harbor. I don't know how that would be implemented, but boy would it be cool to raid a French port and steal a frigate. :captain:

SG

ScipioAfricanus

02-14-2009, 05:54

As a "Yank," I don't believe Play.com is an option . . . which is bugging me. USS Constitution is my favorite ship of all time; it should not be a UK/EU exclusive . . .

@NimitsTexan

The US answer for the Constitution is Best Buy. The UK (and possibly Europe) answer for the Constitution is Play.com. There is another exclusive unit available in the UK (and Europe?) called the Death's Head Hussars that is available from Game. Amazon UK is supposed to have an exclusive unit as well but I didn't see it listed what it is. That makes me wonder if Amazon US has an exclusive unit.

The Special Forces Edition is supposed to have six additional units. I'm guessing that these are the same units if the game is purchased through Steam or through retail (Best Buy, Amazon, Play.com, etc.) for the SF edition.:

1) HMS Victory
2) Rogers' Rangers
3) Ottoman Organ Gun
4) Ghoorkas
5) Corso Terrestre Guerillas
6) Bulkeley's Regiment

Source: http://store.steampowered.com/sub/1281/

Sir Beane

02-14-2009, 13:24

@NimitsTexan

The US answer for the Constitution is Best Buy. The UK (and possibly Europe) answer for the Constitution is Play.com. There is another exclusive unit available in the UK (and Europe?) called the Death's Head Hussars that is available from Game. Amazon UK is supposed to have an exclusive unit as well but I didn't see it listed what it is. That makes me wonder if Amazon US has an exclusive unit.

The Special Forces Edition is supposed to have six additional units. I'm guessing that these are the same units if the game is purchased through Steam or through retail (Best Buy, Amazon, Play.com, etc.) for the SF edition.:

1) HMS Victory
2) Rogers' Rangers
3) Ottoman Organ Gun
4) Ghoorkas
5) Corso Terrestre Guerillas
6) Bulkeley's Regiment

Source: http://store.steampowered.com/sub/1281/

Amazon's special unit is the Dahomey Amazons. A female musket unit, probably skirmishers.

Fisherking

02-14-2009, 14:08

Here are the exclusive units:

3 pre order units

USS Constitution: this unit is available when playing as the USA and your technology has sufficiently advanced. It may also be captured by opposing factions.

Death’s Head Hussars: this unit is available when playing as Prussia and your technology has sufficiently advanced. Prussia must also hold Brandenburg.

Dahomey Amazons: this unit is available when holding territory in North Africa.

http://www.totalwar.com/empire/gameinfo/faq.php#aanswer_4

I hope all you North Americans have access to Old Ironsides.

I would get more of a conformation than what another site has to say. Call the Company. I do hope it is available from Best Buy but you best make sure.

Otherwise see what the shipping is from Play. There is no shipping fee in the UK or Europe from them. I don‘t remember if they sell world wide.

ScipioAfricanus

02-14-2009, 16:11

I hope all you North Americans have access to Old Ironsides.

I would get more of a conformation than what another site has to say. Call the Company. I do hope it is available from Best Buy but you best make sure.

@Fisherking

I'm about 90% sure based on the Best Buy websites. Both the US and Canadian sites have the same box cover pictured and in the upper right it has what looks like a ship: US Best Buy E:TW (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9179024&st=empire+total+war&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1218046366624). It can be seen a little better on the Canadian BB site but not much (they have an image that is a bit larger).

If I get a chance I'll run by BB today to see if they have any information about it. It's better to see it for oneself than to ask people that work there, or at least that's the case with the local BB store.

Otherwise see what the shipping is from Play. There is no shipping fee in the UK or Europe from them. I don‘t remember if they sell world wide.

Apparently Play doesn't deliver to the US (http://www.play.com/HOME/HOME/6-/Help.html?page=del#jump-ec), not surprising really with Amazon, Best Buy and other options available here. It does look cheaper at Play if I did the conversion correctly but it doesn't look like BB has marked any off yet, which I would think might change by the time that it's released although I don't remember that being the case with M2:TW. Play is showing it for £29.99, which seems to be about $43.25 (US) or close to $7 cheaper than BB. Those numbers are of course for the regular edition while the SF edition is about $20 more.

I haven't seen any mention of the Dahomey Amazons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons) being included. Was that on the UK Amazon site? Notice on that link that it mentions E:TW under Popular Culture. ~:)

ThePianist

02-17-2009, 00:43

Off topic - sorry to waste bandwidth.

The issue there was that instead of using the a/c names like Wildcat and Avenger, UBI Soft went ahead and used the name Grumman Wildcat and Grumman Avenger. And Northrop-Grumman got all in a huff and claimed TM infringement (how they get to trademark the names of US taxpayer purchased stuff is anybodies guess). They worked out a deal in the end where they would not sue and have UBI remove the content - BUT - UBI just decided that this was the end of any american a/c additions to the franchise. So we missed out on a great looking TBD Devastator and a number of other a/c.

A real shame.

A real shame. They don't have trademark infringement unless someone builds an actual thing with the parts. Why can't I paint a Grumman Wildcat and Grumman Avenger painting and sell it? Isn't Coca Cola a trademark of that company? It's also the exact complete name of the product. How come I can make a movie with Coca Cola in it, and sell the movie and that's OK?

What about people in movies saying Name-of-Car, Number-Year, that's the exact complete name of that product. What about people in movies saying Name-of-wine/beer, Number-year, that's also the exact complete name of that product. What about games with Colt .45, Colt M-16 and Springfield 1907? Those are exact complete names. What about tank sims, and flight sims and car sims. There would be so many fees if everyone was a crook like Northrop Grumman (and, they aren't even competitive anymore, or I think they were bought by Boeing, or something). UbiSoft should counter-sue, and get hassle fee from Northrop Grumman.

Also, since the government belongs to the people, government property is public property, and you don't trademark public property. Like, the White House, the Capitol Hill, the Supreme Court, the Library of Congress, the Mount Rushmore, they may be built at expense and maybe by private enterprises, but once they are done building they are public property, the name and image thereof, or should I say, the knowledge of the name and the image is public property, and you don't have to pay to mention the name or depict them in painting (video game = 3D painting).

ratbarf

02-17-2009, 00:58

Also, since the government belongs to the people, government property is public property, and you don't trademark public property.

Il Sturmovik is made by Russian company. (I think ubisoft is its distributor in NA) So that may be a problem. Also, the rights and such still belong to the company that made the product even if the US government bought it. They buy Blackberries yet don't have any rights to them for an example.

Finally, I think this whole business is utterly and totally gay. I shouldn't have to buy four copies of the same game from different stores to get all of the units in the game.... Its total bullshit!!!

scipiosgoblin

02-17-2009, 05:21

Why can't I paint a Grumman Wildcat and Grumman Avenger painting and sell it?

You can. Perfectly legal. You are selling your talent. The fact that you are selling a representation of a trademarked object is not illegal.

Isn't Coca Cola a trademark of that company? It's also the exact complete name of the product. How come I can make a movie with Coca Cola in it, and sell the movie and that's OK?

Because Coca Cola paid the movie company to place the product in the movie. Haven't you ever seen the generic COLA cans in movies. Every brand name you see on TV and in a movie was paid advertising for that product.

What about people in movies saying Name-of-Car, Number-Year, that's the exact complete name of that product. What about people in movies saying Name-of-wine/beer, Number-year, that's also the exact complete name of that product.

Same thing, if it's mentioned it was paid for.

What about games with Colt .45, Colt M-16 and Springfield 1907? Those are exact complete names. What about tank sims, and flight sims and car sims. There would be so many fees if everyone was a crook like Northrop Grumman (and, they aren't even competitive anymore, or I think they were bought by Boeing, or something).

Northrup Grumman is a comapny who's duty is to make money for their stockholders. They are in a VERY competitive business called defense contracting. They are not crooks, they are people just like you and me. They are trying to protect their livelyhood. And BTW they are the 2nd largest defense contractor in the world.

UbiSoft should counter-sue, and get hassle fee from Northrop Grumman.

They would lose because the law is on the side of NG.

Also, since the government belongs to the people, government property is public property, and you don't trademark public property. Like, the White House, the Capitol Hill, the Supreme Court, the Library of Congress, the Mount Rushmore, they may be built at expense and maybe by private enterprises, but once they are done building they are public property, the name and image thereof, or should I say, the knowledge of the name and the image is public property, and you don't have to pay to mention the name or depict them in painting (video game = 3D painting).
Exactly. You don't have to pay for trademarks that are owned by the governemnt aka the people. You do have to pay for trademarks owned by companies. Even those trademarks of objects bought with government money such as airplanes. NG was well within their rights.

BTW I think it was a mistake on NG's part because they were getting free advertising.