You're a bunch of cowards!

[Don Corleone]

So, despite assurances of 'representing all of America', the nation's first black Attorney General decided to go a different route than his boss... forgoing unity and reconciliation for some good old smackdown talk at whitey (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090219/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/holder_race).
"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said.

So, even if you agree with the man's sentiments, do you think such statements are productive? Do they advance the national discussion on race and the movement of our society to a post-racial future? Or does it sound like AG Holder spends more time listening to Minister Jeremiah Wright than President Obama?

I've got it!!! :balloon2: I should have known it all along. Yahoo! News is simply part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, orchestrated by Rupert Murdoch. Like the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Times, U.S. News & World Report and other partisan rags, it's completely untrustworthy. I bet Karl Rove made the whole story up while on the can, then shopped it out to Yahoo. That's gotta be it...

[Marshal Murat]

I thought we got rid of busing for a reason...

[Strike For The South]

He doesn't say whitey.

As for self segregating my family never did that and we're just a bunch of racist cowboys. I know that if my street filled with Mexicans, Indians, Blacks and Canadians can survive in Texas then there must be hope for the rest of the country.

I'm going to be roomates with a Mexican next year. Am I the epitome of race relations?

I'm going to see Wolverine with a black guy. They should give me a medal.

The guy is talking out of his ass.

He's wrong. My brother has a Mexican girlfriend.

We had a muslim over for BBQ one day!

I'm best friends with an 11 year old jap. He gives me gum.

I could go on/

[Hooahguy]

same here.
one of my best friends is black (among my many black friends) i have numerous muslim friends (one of which is on the .org- Ibrahim).
that guy knows nothing of america and im sad that he is attourney general.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I've only ever been friends with white guys so I suppose I'm racist.

[Adrian II]

I don't get it.

Where does he say America is racist? Or that whitey is to blame?

He is just saying America gets uncomfortable when the issue comes up and prefers to segregate voluntarily. Isn't that true if you look at statistics about school, residential and recreational segregation? Some of you may think of themselves as color blind, but what does that tell us about the other 99,999999% of Americans?


Even when people mix at the workplace or afterwork social events, Holder argued, many Americans in their free time are still segregated inside what he called "race-protected cocoons."

"Saturdays and Sundays, America in the year 2009 does not in some ways differ significantly from the country that existed almost 50 years ago. This is truly sad," said Holder.Go ahead and prove him wrong. I'm interested.

[rvg]

Obama should really watch whom he gets on his team, otherwise instead of being the first black president he risks becoming the only black president. As for Holder, he should {be quiet}.

[Strike For The South]

I don't get it.

Where does he say America is racist? Or that whitey is to blame?

He is just saying America gets uncomfortable when the issue comes up and prefers to segregate voluntarily. Isn't that true if you look at statistics about school, residential and recreational segregation? Some of you may think of themselves as color blind, but what does that tell us about the other 99,999999% of Americans?

Even when people mix at the workplace or afterwork social events, Holder argued, many Americans in their free time are still segregated inside what he called "race-protected cocoons."

"Saturdays and Sundays, America in the year 2009 does not in some ways differ significantly from the country that existed almost 50 years ago. This is truly sad," said Holder.Go ahead and prove him wrong. I'm interested.

Its a typical old man trying to put 1960 in a 2009 frame. That was 49 years ago, things change.

My high school had a large number of white,black and mexican students and my whole time on campus not one racially motivated incident took place. I have seen black cowboys and ghetto white boys fit in just fine with there racially "right" brothers.

I've seen blonde women with the last name Lopez and Mexican women with the last name Jones. No one does a double take or any of that. This is of course in Texas one of the poster boys for race relations.

Some people want to see there battles last with them. Wether it be a racist or an activist these old men want to know that the battles they fought matter and that people are still taking sides and fighting the good fight. Statements like Holders are irrelevant because that is not how things work anymore.

Maybe his weekends are like that but not mine.

I am not saying we are perfect but people like Holder also believe in the "Latinization" of America.


I pointed out in my first post that he never blamed whitey.

[Marshal Murat]

Even when people mix at the workplace or afterwork social events, Holder argued, many Americans in their free time are still segregated inside what he called "race-protected cocoons."

What many of us Americans are complaining about isn't necessarily that Holder is absolutely incorrect. I'll be the first to admit that I don't "hang out with some brothers" on the weekends. However, the jab of Holder's argument to many white Americans is that "Whites don't associate with Blacks/Hispanics/Asians on a regular basis and by that fact White Americans are inherently racists." While I don't think he mentioned a specific race, Adrian, he is trying to somehow break us out of our "race cocoons". That smacks of racial quotas and affirmative action. Trying to make colleges more "diversified" or "multi-cultural" didn't work and just caused more trouble.
If I was having a BBQ in my back yard, I wouldn't invite ONLY my white friends, I'd invite my friends, and I don't understand why the big man in Washington has to tell me that I have to start inviting people I don't know because they aren't of my race.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The other side of this many sided coin...segregation by ethnic group isn't mutually exclusive to whites.

[Strike For The South]

MM He never mentions any race. Why are you so defensive?

[Marshal Murat]

MM He never mentions any race. Why are you so defensive?

It's simply frustration that, while race is never mentioned, it always seems to be implied. His speech is what many titled provocative and for the right reasons. While he doesn't mention any race specifically, and is generally inclusive in his discussion, throughout the article the guilt is implied to be held by whites. While SFTS might have a different opinion, coming from the state of Texas. Don and I have seemed to read this as a brow-beating by the Attorney-General of all whites, because we seem to always be those responsible (sometimes rightly) of committing gross offenses against blacks.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

We're not racially segregated we're culturally segregated, and that's perfectly natural.

[Strike For The South]

"white guilt"? Sooooooooooooo laaaaaammmmmmeeeee.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, a lot of what the AG said about self-segregation is over-blown. Like Sasaki said, its more segregation by culture. To say we aren't much different from 50 years ago is not true.

And we says we're cowards when talking about race. Although I was initially offended by the idea, I think there may be some truth to it.

But why is that? It seems to me a lot of people avoid such discussion for fear of being called racist. This is due to the incessant race baiting and cries of racism that come from people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (Example; this recent cartoon (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96E2K8G0&show_article=1)).

So what the AG needs to do is criticize those people, because otherwise we're not going to make much progress.

CR

[King Jan III Sobieski]

I don't get it.

Where does he say America is racist? Or that whitey is to blame?

He is just saying America gets uncomfortable when the issue comes up and prefers to segregate voluntarily. Isn't that true if you look at statistics about school, residential and recreational segregation? Some of you may think of themselves as color blind, but what does that tell us about the other 99,999999% of Americans?


Even when people mix at the workplace or afterwork social events, Holder argued, many Americans in their free time are still segregated inside what he called "race-protected cocoons."

"Saturdays and Sundays, America in the year 2009 does not in some ways differ significantly from the country that existed almost 50 years ago. This is truly sad," said Holder.Go ahead and prove him wrong. I'm interested.

Of course race is still an uncomfortable issue - whenever a person of one ethnic group says something about other ethnic groups, someone somewhere misconstrues it as being a racial/racist thing!

Case in point - In certain ethnic circles, there are "disproportionately" high levels of crime. You can argue until you're blue in the face as to the reasons behind this; you can check to stats; there's nothing "racist" about this statement, it's based on fact. But if someone makes this statement, especially if they don't choose their words carefully, they will be branded as a racist by someone or some group.

:wall::wall::wall:

[Xiahou]

But why is that? It seems to me a lot of people avoid such discussion for fear of being called racist. This is due to the incessant race baiting and cries of racism that come from people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (Example; this recent cartoon (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96E2K8G0&show_article=1)).I agree, people are often cowardly when it comes to discussing race- largely for the reasons you point out.

However, I think Holder was trying to say that we're cowards because we're too scared to associate with people of other races. I think that's nonsense.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Of course race is still an uncomfortable issue - whenever a person of one ethnic group says something about other ethnic groups, someone somewhere misconstrues it as being a racial/racist thing!

Case in point - In certain ethnic circles, there are "disproportionately" high levels of crime. You can argue until you're blue in the face as to the reasons behind this; you can check to stats; there's nothing "racist" about this statement, it's based on fact. But if someone makes this statement, especially if they don't choose their words carefully, they will be branded as a racist by someone or some group.

:wall::wall::wall:

Just because something is factual doesn't make it not racist :smash:

[Don Corleone]

White people are "cowards" when talking about race in America. You either agree with the person of color, or you're a bigot. Given those two choices, and only those two choices, wouldn't you avoid that whole discussion Adrian? I have black friends, and they're the first ones to admit that "racial discussions" always put white people on very thin eggshells. The amazing thing is, they understand why, and you don't. Guess you don't know us as well as you seem to think you do.

Nobody has addressed my follow on questions. Agree with him or not, if your goal is racial harmony and striving to a color blind society, how exactly does calling people cowards and claiming that people now self segregate move the discussion forward?

If I don't invite a white anarchist into my house, I'm wise and prudent. If I don't invite a black anarchist into my house, I'm a filty racist bigot. And talk like that's supposed to encourage me to open up?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Just because something is factual doesn't make it not racist :smash:

Hmm, I have to disagree with that.

CR

[Husar]

He doesn't say whitey.

As for self segregating my family never did that and we're just a bunch of racist cowboys. I know that if my street filled with Mexicans, Indians, Blacks and Canadians can survive in Texas then there must be hope for the rest of the country.

I'm going to be roomates with a Mexican next year. Am I the epitome of race relations?

I'm going to see Wolverine with a black guy. They should give me a medal.

The guy is talking out of his ass.

He's wrong. My brother has a Mexican girlfriend.

We had a muslim over for BBQ one day!

I'm best friends with an 11 year old jap. He gives me gum.

I could go on/

Obviously, he is right, you are a coward, if you were a man you would stand up against those intruders and uhm, oh wait.... :sweatdrop:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm, I have to disagree with that.

CR

If someone was racist and said "I hate *******" that would be a factual statement and also racist. Ergo, concordantly, vis a vis...

[Crazed Rabbit]

:inquisitive:

That's just slightly different from what Sobieski was talking about.

CR

[Strike For The South]

White people are "cowards" when talking about race in America. You either agree with the person of color, or you're a bigot. Given those two choices, and only those two choices, wouldn't you avoid that whole discussion Adrian? I have black friends, and they're the first ones to admit that "racial discussions" always put white people on very thin eggshells. The amazing thing is, they understand why, and you don't. Guess you don't know us as well as you seem to think you do.

Nobody has addressed my follow on questions. Agree with him or not, if your goal is racial harmony and striving to a color blind society, how exactly does calling people cowards and claiming that people now self segregate move the discussion forward?

If I don't invite a white anarchist into my house, I'm wise and prudent. If I don't invite a black anarchist into my house, I'm a filty racist bigot. And talk like that's supposed to encourage me to open up?
Why do you self impose limitations on yourself.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

:inquisitive:

That's just slightly different from what Sobieski was talking about.

CR

Sure it's a different example, but his claim was that since it was factual, it wasn't racist. That isn't always true.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I suppose so.

CR

[Major Robert Dump]

I'm not a coward, I wear all sorts of racially commentive shirts from T-shirt hell. And I married a Korean girl 10 years my junior to further racial diversity in America.

[seireikhaan]

Personally, I think Don's the one with the most important point here- using the term "cowards" is inflammatory in of itself, and regardless of its truth, is unwarranted if progress is to be made. I don't doubt that there are some nasty pieces of work out in the world. And, undoubtedly, a man of his age could very well have some scars from his past, or even present, for all I know. However, I personally believe that dividing us into "sides" is unproductive. Passing around blame does not fix a problem, and can, in fact, worsen it. Furthermore, invoking our entire history as a "nation of cowards" does disservice to the many that put themselves on the line throughout their life to promote kindness, harmony, and justice to all. Particularly to all those, both black and white, that participated in the peaceful protests of Jim Crow during the late 50's and the 60's.

[Xiahou]

Well said. :bow:

[Adrian II]

White people are "cowards" when talking about race in America. [..] If I don't invite a black anarchist into my house, I'm a filty racist bigot.Don, what are you talking about? It's not what Holder says, that's for sure.

Maybe some white Americans believed that now that Mr Hopeychangey has been elected President they would never, ever have to discuss racial segregation anymore. Even it if flies in the face as soon as you look at the numbers. November 4th, 2008, the Day American Racism Officially Came To An End. Yeah right.

[Don Corleone]

Don, what are you talking about? It's not what Holder says, that's for sure.

Holder didn't say white people specifically are cowards talking about race, I did. That bit you clipped in between was an effort to explain why.

[Adrian II]

Holder didn't say white people specifically are cowards talking about race, I did. That bit you clipped in between was an effort to explain why.Well, as a matter of fact you are right. The problem was that your posts were not really to the point.

After reading Holder's speech (http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/2009/ag-speech-090218.html?loc=interstitialskip) I see what that point is: Holder is talking uniquely about black Americans and their contribution to the nation's history. He's a whiner, and his whining is directed at whitey. That, in conjunction with the name-calling, is stupid and unforgivable in an AG. Off with his head. I mean it.
:bow:

[KukriKhan]

Its a typical old man trying to put 1960 in a 2009 frame. That was 49 years ago, things change.

Holder wiki Bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder) He's 21 days younger than I am. Or maybe I'm not typical. :laugh4:

[Vladimir]

This should hardly come as a surprise if you watched or heard the inauguration. One of the several, horrible poems was straight out of the '60s and is clearly meant to foment racial dissatisfaction.

[drone]

Anecdotal evidence and all that, but my experience in college resembled what I think he was trying to express, possible in the reverse manner though. Everybody got along, but the African-American students (a small % of the students) all hung out together, and there was a feeling that those who hung out with us crackers were selling out or something. The one black guy in our drinking group was actually from Africa, maybe they just couldn't relate to him or vice versa. This was 20 years ago though, so who knows what it's like now.

Why the AG is expounding on race relations in this country is a mystery though. Shouldn't he be rounding up fraudsters and Bush administration lawyers?

[Vladimir]

He's too busy enforcing Hope and Change (TM).

[Adrian II]

This should hardly come as a surprise if you watched or heard the inauguration. One of the several, horrible poems was straight out of the '60s and is clearly meant to foment racial dissatisfaction.Sure, Vladimir. It's all part of Obama's evil Masterplan. :dozey:

[Vladimir]

Sure, Vladimir. It's all part of Obama's evil Masterplan. :dozey:

If you say so :grin:. I was refering to the "...white will do what's right.." part but if you know more, please go on.

[Adrian II]

If you say so :grin:. I was refering to the "...white will do what's right.." part but if you know more, please go on.Well, it's obvious that Obama wants to split the nation along racial lines, foment civil war, nationalise industry, introduce islam as a state religion and force school kids to eat fried chicken and study Joe Stalin's collected works. That's what I think.

[Vladimir]

Well, it's obvious that Obama wants to split the nation along racial lines, foment civil war, nationalise industry, introduce islam as a state religion and force school kids to eat fried chicken and study Joe Stalin's collected works. That's what I think.

What I'm most concerned by is that you appear to be fine with the horrible poetry at the inauguration.

Anyway, you're making a lot of racist statements. First that Mr Hopeychangey thing, now this. What it tells me is that you people (60's style flower children, not the Dutch) are still living in the past. In the absence of racial tensions you, like the Attorney General and Al Sharpton, have to create them or peal back the scab, as it were, to confirm your world view is still valid. Instead of letting the wound heal, you draw attention to it and allow the festering to continue. You're letting your biases color the perception of my statements. That's what I get from your wild statements.

[Adrian II]

Anyway, you're making a lot of racist statements. First that Mr Hopeychangey thing, now this. What it tells me is that you people (60's style flower children, not the Dutch) are still living in the past. In the absence of racial tensions you, like the Attorney General and Al Sharpton, have to create them or peal back the scab, as it were, to confirm your world view is still valid. Instead of letting the wound heal, you draw attention to it and allow the festering to continue. You're letting your biases color the perception of my statements. That's what I get from your wild statements.Was that a poem?

[Vladimir]

Was that a poem?

This (http://www.nowpublic.com/world/obamas-inauguration-poem-praise-song-day-full-text) apparently is one of them.

[Adrian II]

This (http://www.nowpublic.com/world/obamas-inauguration-poem-praise-song-day-full-text) apparently is one of them.Looks wholesome enough. I think this proves that you're with the tinfoil crowd, Vladimir. Cold showers, lots of fiber and no booze for you.

[Vladimir]

Looks wholesome enough. I think this proves that you're with the tinfoil crowd, Vladimir. Cold showers, lots of fiber and no booze for you.

Well it does taste like fresh milk. However this (http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2009/01/rev_lowery_inauguration_benedi.html) has that old cheese smell.

[Yoyoma1910]

Consider your thread integrated, you bunch of cowards.

<----------Hispanic (1/4 Isleño (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle%C3%B1os)).


~;p


Edit:

Also, Strike, we founded San Antonio.


In Texas, in earlier times, there was a small community of Isleños that founded San Antonio in 1731, one hundred years before the first English-speaking immigrants arrived in the region. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Islander)

[Strike For The South]

San Antonio was founded in 1718 by the Governor of Texas. Reenforcing the mission and bringing in civilians.

I don't care if your 16 families set up the first civil government ~;)

San Antonio is much more important as being a bulwark for the Tejanos against Anglo and European immigration into Texas in the 1830s-1860s

Besides we all know you have to be brown to be Hispanic.

[Devastatin Dave]

Wow, a black person who's successful but still whining? Unbelievable.:laugh4:

He should go blow off some steam with his Hommie Hussien and shoot some hoops, or do a drive-by...

[Yoyoma1910]

Besides we all know you have to be brown to be Hispanic.

That's funny, because my brother came out tall and brown like the Isleños (who were paid extra for height (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMD4KbDQyG4)), and I came out short and white like the little Cajun people. (me when I'm old (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwyduOm2tN8))


Go figure.

[Strike For The South]

*shuuders* thank God for the Sabine.

[Yoyoma1910]

Don't worry! My cousin Jacques is over there, working as a civil engineer.

[Strike For The South]

Does that mean I can come over there and steal wimmenz? Quid Pro Quo?

[Yoyoma1910]

Sure.


But first tell me if this makes you hungry.

Bringing home the bacon. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzRjuo9FpcE&feature=channel)

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

He's a moron. So much for having unity in the US :rtwno:. I know a lot of people, in RL or online who are White,Black Asians, and so on. I know people who are Chirstian (I myself am a whitey :laugh4: and a Presbyterian), Jewish, Muslim and Athesits and so on. So how am I a coward? Crap like that divides the nation, not unify it. :rtwyes:

[Yoyoma1910]

Racism.

It knows no national or cultural boundaries.
Knows no skin tone or eye color.

For unlike those who posses it, it can exist anywhere in anyone.

[Strike For The South]

Sure.


But first tell me if this makes you hungry.

Bringing home the bacon. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzRjuo9FpcE&feature=channel)

Pfffft. We do that here to.

[Yoyoma1910]

Pfffft. We do that here to.

I know, but does it make your mouth water. Are you thinking of how many ways to cook a catfish that large, and how to get rid of the muddy sewage taste the meat's gonna have?


Do you have a giant iron pot waiting to make the court bouillon (saying it coo-B-aun).


It's not how you get the fish, here, my friend. It's what you do with it after.




...



How are you going to steal our women with that attitude?

You think you're the only Texian who strolls in to these here parts, good buddy?

[Strike For The South]

I know, but does it make your mouth water. Are you thinking of how many ways to cook a catfish that large, and how to get rid of the muddy sewage taste the meat's gonna have?


Do you have a giant iron pot waiting to make the court bouillon (saying it coo-B-aun).


It's not how you get the fish, here, my friend. It's what you do with it after.
I'll Fry that sucker!



How are you going to steal our women with that attitude?

You think you're the only Texian who strolls in to these here parts, good buddy?

No, I'm just continuing a long tradition of The Texan coming in his white pick up and saving the Cajun dansel. I think Jim Bowie started it.

[Adrian II]

I'll Fry that sucker!He has a point, you know. :laugh3:

[Yoyoma1910]

I'll Fry that sucker!
It's gonna taste like fried gradoux. Believe me, I've done it.


No, I'm just continuing a long tradition of The Texan coming in his white pick up and saving the Cajun dansel. I think Jim Bowie started it.

Jim Bowie was born in Kentucky.

[Strike For The South]

It's gonna taste like fried gradoux. Believe me, I've done it.

Is gradoux French for awesome?



Jim Bowie was born in Kentucky.

You can't blame him for trying.

[Dramicus]

I suppose I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Now, I was born and raised in Canada, so that might make a slight difference compared to how it is in the United States, but probably not.

Anyway, I'm half European and half Asian, Eurasian if you will, and I have unfortunately experienced racism and discrimination over the years but the thing is, its always been from other minorities. As far as I can recall, I've never had a white person be blatantly racist towards me in any way. The most I ever get is a standard: "So, where are you from?" or "What's your background?" and I don't know about you, but I just chalk that up to being curious.

On the other hand, I've occasionally gotten some pretty scathing comments from other Asians, especially Koreans and Chinese once they find out that I'm half Japanese. Now I obviously know that this is by no means representative of the Korean and Chinese population, and I have plenty good friends from both of the aforementioned groups, but that being said, I have never experienced anything even remotely close from White people.

Hell, I was even called a chink to my face on the bus once by a Black person and of the passengers in the immediate vicinity who witnessed the event, the only ones who acted with outrage were White, I noticed that there were a couple Asian passengers who just looked away as if nothing had happened.

Now Canada might be vastly different from the US, I've only been there a grand total of 5 times, so I'm not in any position to know but I think the situation is likely not all that different. In my opinion, the greatest proponents of racism are not White people but are in fact the minorities who constantly bring it up and throw it in their face. My mother has never been called a traitor and a whore by White people, thats for certain.