Manliest Name Poll: Finals

[desert]

Ok, top 3 it is.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Nothing is manlier than a Wolfman Beerworth.

[Beefy187]

Nothing is manlier than a Wolfman Beerworth.



Damn you!! Give me my coffee back :laugh4:

And I may need a new laptop after spilling the coffee all over..

[Askthepizzaguy]

Here are the manliest names, in order of least manly to the most manly:

4. Wolfman Beerworth
Wolves are tough, for sure... but you can usually hack your way through them with a butter knife while strangling three of them in one hand.

3. John Wayne
He's a man's man, but he usually goes down after you shoot him in the face a couple hundred times.

2. Staff Sergeant Max Fightmaster
He's 8 feet tall and 700 pounds of ripped, hairy, gorilla-man. He once got into a fight with Bigfoot, and broke off Bigfoot's foot and ate it, and then ripped off his own foot, beat the snot out of Bigfoot with it, and then surgically reattached his own foot to his leg using nothing more than a paper clip and a shoelace. He is the reason that entire nations starve, because he personally steals all their crops and eats them on purpose, and then spends the next 7 weeks on the :toilet: pushing raw, unadulterated, all-American FREEDOM out like soft-serve ice cream.

It doesn't get much manlier than this; but there's one man who trumps them all.

1. Beefy187

He has the horns of a bull welded to his own skull, which he tore off the bull himself and spot-welded the bones together without using painkillers. He wears a beard made entirely out of killer bees, and when he speaks, it causes all life within a 300-mile radius to suddenly die of fright. He carved a life-size replica of the Grand Canyon into his own leg. He swings elephants around by their trunks, and carries glaciers over to active volcanoes and drops them inside to save the poor island villagers below from the dangerous magma. He wears a size 49 boot, and the last time he gave a good sneeze, he wiped out all the dinosaurs, or at least most of them, and ran over the rest of them with his truck. He eats nails just to get his daily recommended iron, and he is secretly the father of everyone in the state of California, and that was after only one weekend in Los Angeles. His eyelash caused the Mariana Trench to form in the Pacific Ocean. When he gets hungry, he summons Godzilla and bites his head off, and tosses his lifeless body back into the ocean. He personally repelled the Borg Collective using only a gallon of whiskey and a two-by-four with a nail in it. He went back in time and convinced Hitler to kill himself using a thumbtack and a lot of persistence, and caught it all on tape and sent it in to Funniest Home Videos. He dug up Napoleon's body just to punch him in the jaw and sent the shattered pieces into orbit. He stared at the Tethys Ocean until it spontaneously disappeared in terror. He created the Himalayan mountain range with a plastic picnic spoon and a lot of patience. When he wants a sauna, he drills to the center of the Earth and floats around for a few million years. He can cause the stars to literally fall out of the sky, in defiance of the laws of physics. He also once saw a potato chip which looked like Herbert Hoover, and ate it anyway. He likes kittens, haiku poetry, and slow dancing in the rain. He is likened to Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and Thor, but these weaklings are pathetic by comparison. His image graces the currency of 47 countries, and sometimes he eats galaxies just to see what they taste like.:laugh4: :clown: :medievalcheers: :applause: :smash: :yes: :charge: :7king: :7teacher: :skull:

[Yoyoma1910]

Here are the manliest names, in order of least manly to the most manly:

6.
Meh.

5. Wolfman Beerworth
Wolves are tough, for sure... but you can usually hack your way through them with a butter knife while strangling three of them in one hand.

4. John Wayne
He's a man's man, but he usually goes down after you shoot him in the face a couple hundred times.

3.


2. Staff Sergeant Max Fightmaster
He's 8 feet tall and 700 pounds of ripped, hairy, gorilla-man. He once got into a fight with Bigfoot, and broke off Bigfoot's foot and ate it, and then ripped off his own foot, beat the snot out of Bigfoot with it, and then surgically reattached his own foot to his leg using nothing more than a paper clip and a shoelace. He is the reason that entire nations starve, because he personally steals all their crops and eats them on purpose, and then spends the next 7 weeks on the :toilet: pushing raw, unadulterated, all-American FREEDOM out like soft-serve ice cream.

It doesn't get much manlier than this; but there's one man who trumps them all.

1. Beefy187

He has the horns of a bull welded to his own skull, which he tore off the bull himself and spot-welded the bones together without using painkillers. He wears a beard made entirely out of killer bees, and when he speaks, it causes all life within a 300-mile radius to suddenly die of fright. He carved a life-size replica of the Grand Canyon into his own leg. He swings elephants around by their trunks, and carries glaciers over to active volcanoes and drops them inside to save the poor island villagers below from the dangerous magma. He wears a size 49 boot, and the last time he gave a good sneeze, he wiped out all the dinosaurs, or at least most of them, and ran over the rest of them with his truck. He eats nails just to get his daily recommended iron, and he is secretly the father of everyone in the state of California, and that was after only one weekend in Los Angeles. His eyelash caused the Mariana Trench to form in the Pacific Ocean. When he gets hungry, he summons Godzilla and bites his head off, and tosses his lifeless body back into the ocean. He personally repelled the Borg Collective using only a gallon of whiskey and a two-by-four with a nail in it. He went back in time and convinced Hitler to kill himself using a thumbtack and a lot of persistence, and caught it all on tape and sent it in to Funniest Home Videos. He dug up Napoleon's body just to punch him in the jaw and sent the shattered pieces into orbit. He stared at the Tethys Ocean until it spontaneously disappeared in terror. He created the Himalayan mountain range with a plastic picnic spoon and a lot of patience. When he wants a sauna, he drills to the center of the Earth and floats around for a few million years. He can cause the stars to literally fall out of the sky, in defiance of the laws of physics. He also once saw a potato chip which looked like Herbert Hoover, and ate it anyway. He likes kittens, haiku poetry, and slow dancing in the rain. He is likened to Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and Thor, but these weaklings are pathetic by comparison. His image graces the currency of 47 countries, and sometimes he eats galaxies just to see what they taste like.:laugh4: :clown: :medievalcheers: :applause: :smash: :yes: :charge: :7king: :7teacher: :skull:


Definitely quality observations.

[LittleGrizzly]

Man of STEEL!

Tough manly name...

[Beefy187]

Here are the manliest names, in order of least manly to the most manly:

6. J
Meh.

5. Wolfman Beerworth
Wolves are tough, for sure... but you can usually hack your way through them with a butter knife while strangling three of them in one hand.

4. John Wayne
He's a man's man, but he usually goes down after you shoot him in the face a couple hundred times.

3.


2. Staff Sergeant Max Fightmaster
He's 8 feet tall and 700 pounds of ripped, hairy, gorilla-man. He once got into a fight with Bigfoot, and broke off Bigfoot's foot and ate it, and then ripped off his own foot, beat the snot out of Bigfoot with it, and then surgically reattached his own foot to his leg using nothing more than a paper clip and a shoelace. He is the reason that entire nations starve, because he personally steals all their crops and eats them on purpose, and then spends the next 7 weeks on the :toilet: pushing raw, unadulterated, all-American FREEDOM out like soft-serve ice cream.

It doesn't get much manlier than this; but there's one man who trumps them all.

1. Beefy187

He has the horns of a bull welded to his own skull, which he tore off the bull himself and spot-welded the bones together without using painkillers. He wears a beard made entirely out of killer bees, and when he speaks, it causes all life within a 300-mile radius to suddenly die of fright. He carved a life-size replica of the Grand Canyon into his own leg. He swings elephants around by their trunks, and carries glaciers over to active volcanoes and drops them inside to save the poor island villagers below from the dangerous magma. He wears a size 49 boot, and the last time he gave a good sneeze, he wiped out all the dinosaurs, or at least most of them, and ran over the rest of them with his truck. He eats nails just to get his daily recommended iron, and he is secretly the father of everyone in the state of California, and that was after only one weekend in Los Angeles. His eyelash caused the Mariana Trench to form in the Pacific Ocean. When he gets hungry, he summons Godzilla and bites his head off, and tosses his lifeless body back into the ocean. He personally repelled the Borg Collective using only a gallon of whiskey and a two-by-four with a nail in it. He went back in time and convinced Hitler to kill himself using a thumbtack and a lot of persistence, and caught it all on tape and sent it in to Funniest Home Videos. He dug up Napoleon's body just to punch him in the jaw and sent the shattered pieces into orbit. He stared at the Tethys Ocean until it spontaneously disappeared in terror. He created the Himalayan mountain range with a plastic picnic spoon and a lot of patience. When he wants a sauna, he drills to the center of the Earth and floats around for a few million years. He can cause the stars to literally fall out of the sky, in defiance of the laws of physics. He also once saw a potato chip which looked like Herbert Hoover, and ate it anyway. He likes kittens, haiku poetry, and slow dancing in the rain. He is likened to Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and Thor, but these weaklings are pathetic by comparison. His image graces the currency of 47 countries, and sometimes he eats galaxies just to see what they taste like.:laugh4: :clown: :medievalcheers: :applause: :smash: :yes: :charge: :7king: :7teacher: :skull:

So I am suddenly a equivalent of Chuck Norris?
Cool! :laugh4:

[White_eyes:D]

Where's Beefy187?....he would win this hands down.....:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

But I went with John Wayne.....:juggle2: always liked his old cowboy flicks for some reason.....till "Unforgiven" by Clint Eastwood....:2thumbsup:

[Askthepizzaguy]

:laugh4:

Sorry folks, but Beefy wasn't actually a candidate. It's a shame, because he is clearly the most epic man of them all.

I like a name like "Chuck Steak" or "Mantooth Skullcrusher". Those are heroic male names.



EDIT: This thread has been sigged.

[Rhyfelwyr]

WHERE IS LESLEY?!?! :furious3:

I am LMAO at that post ATPG! :2thumbsup:

Voted for Uncle Joe myself, even if its not his real name

[FactionHeir]

I quite liked Manfred Mann you know. I mean how can a name be any manlier :tongue2:

[desert]

Boys...

We got ourselves a triple showdown!

[Quietus]

+1 to Max Fightmaster. Ridiculous. :laugh4: Should have added Engelbert Humperdinck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0uC05o5liE). :2thumbsup:

[rajpoot]

Nothing is manlier than a Wolfman Beerworth.



Whatever he said :yes:

[PershsNhpios]

Ulrich Schmetterlingen.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Ulrich Schmetterlingen.

You realize a Schetterling (probably spelled wrong) is a butterfly right?

[Jolt]

WHERE IS LESLEY?!?! :furious3:

I am LMAO at that post ATPG! :2thumbsup:

Voted for Uncle Joe myself, even if its not his real name

What about Uncle Jolt?

[PershsNhpios]

Yes, I realise that Schmetterling is the Deutsch for Butterfly.

You realise the irony, right? In some dialects the verb, "schmetten" means to pound something..

[Inappropriate material deleted, Lemur]

[PershsNhpios]

[Inappropriate material deleted, Lemur]

[Strike For The South]

[Inappropriate material deleted, Lemur]

I'm the only big American you should be worrying about ~;)

Remember gentleman the Frontroom is lighthearted. The only time things get heated is when southerners talk about there food...or there drink....or there women.

We're a passionate people.

Or maybe thats just me Joe and yoyoma :laugh4:

[Aemilius Paulus]

This is bleeping preposterous. Why did Hillary go anyway?? I call a strike. No one vote in this thread anymore if you think that such mass editing and censorship is unreasonable.

[TosaInu]

Hello,

Sorry, had to edit politcal content out. The Backroom is for that.

[Aemilius Paulus]

So, why did my other post get deleted while some other posts weren't?

Oh and also, my post in the watchtower:

[Take it to the Backroom, Lemur.]

[Take it to the Backroom, Lemur]

NOTE: I am not too sure how Frontroom appropriate this is, so mods, when/if you edit this, at least try to keep some of the message instead of wholly deleting it. Please, if that is possible.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Hello,

Sorry, had to edit politcal content out. The Backroom is for that.
Just as a further note, I did not see this post when I posted my previous post.

[Strike For The South]

Just go to the backroom

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd like to apologize to TosaInu, I didn't realize the content I posted was out of bounds.

To be fair, both names were mentioned already, and I was just posting in jest from a politically neutral perspective. However, I see that it definitely could have been offensive, so it is my mistake.

:bow:

Will post political jokes only in backroom.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Just go to the backroom
I did. I just made a thread there.

[Yoyoma1910]

*sigh*



Oh well...


Sometimes a name is just a name.

[PanzerJaeger]

I did. I just made a thread there.

Sigh... The drama is what I miss the most, I think. :drama1:

[Strike For The South]

Sigh... The drama is what I miss the most, I think. :drama1:

Ya, now we just talk about you behind your back.

[PanzerJaeger]

Ya, now we just talk about you behind your back.

:laugh4:

As Bette Davis once said in the waning days of her career, "At least they're still talking about me."

:laugh4:


+1 for the Duke.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Having been given my vote back, I chose to give it too Mr. Fightmaster. That is a pretty cool name. :cool:

[Jolt]

Without Hillary Clinton, John Wayne just became the new baddest guy around.

[Yoyoma1910]

Without Hillary Clinton, John Wayne just became the new baddest guy around.

Yeah....




But he's no Hillary Clinton. :cry:

[Jolt]

Yeah....




But he's no Hillary Clinton. :cry:

No :no: he isn't.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Why didn't Arnie make it here? Shwartzie deserves his recognition. Or wait, he is also a politician. A Governor of California...

[desert]

Because no one mentioned it. Also, this is the manliest NAME thread; his name just isn't manly enough to cut it here. Also, weird post back in the 1st page. :inquisitive:

CMON FIGHTMASTER!

[King Jan III Sobieski]

GO JOHN WAYNE!!! :laugh4:

[Reverend Joe]

Having been given my vote back, I chose to give it too Mr. Fightmaster. That is a pretty cool name. :cool:

:stare:
Not as badass as John Wayne.

[desert]

I'll provide a thorough analysis of the names to show why John Wayne is the lamest of the three.

1: Max Fightmaster -

Max: Already a pretty good first name. Like Mad Max.
Fightmaster: **** YOU ALL, his name means the MASTER of FIGHTING. He could literally fight all the armies of the universe in a combined battle that takes up more space than this entire galaxy and win in 2 seconds!

2: Wolfman Beerworth

Wolfman: His name already has the word man in it, but it also has wolf. Also, werewolves/wolfmen are awesome.

Beerworth: It has the word "beer" in it.

3: John Wayne -

John: Classic. Somewhat manly in its simplicity, but also cliche.

Wayne: It's ok.

John Wayne may be manly, but his name isn't. This is the "Manliest Name Competition", not "Manliest MAN Competition".:wall:

[Reverend Joe]

I'll provide a thorough analysis of the names to show why John Wayne is the lamest of the three.

1: Max Fightmaster -

Max: Already a pretty good first name. Like Mad Max.
Fightmaster: **** YOU ALL, his name means the MASTER of FIGHTING. He could literally fight all the armies of the universe in a combined battle that takes up more space than this entire galaxy and win in 2 seconds!

2: Wolfman Beerworth

Wolfman: His name already has the word man in it, but it also has wolf. Also, werewolves/wolfmen are awesome.

Beerworth: It has the word "beer" in it.

3: John Wayne -

John: Classic. Somewhat manly in its simplicity, but also cliche.

Wayne: It's ok.

John Wayne may be manly, but his name isn't. This is the "Manliest Name Competition", not "Manliest MAN Competition".:wall:

Sorry, but your assessment is critically flawed, since it fails to take into account the fact that John Wayne's name is now the manliest name because it was attached to him.

[rajpoot]

Wolfman isn't getting his worth here........ :sweatdrop:

[Askthepizzaguy]

You know, there was once a tale about a boy named Sue...

[desert]

Sorry, but your assessment is critically flawed, since it fails to take into account the fact that John Wayne's name is now the manliest name because it was attached to him.

Bollocks.

Max Fightmaster beats it because he is a Staff Sergeant. On top of of his regular name, he has a cool-as-hell military rank. Does John Wayne have a military rank? I don't think so! You lose...now make me a sammich. :whip:

[Askthepizzaguy]

*Takes out pistol, shoots Staff Sergeant Max Fightmaster in the face 200 times, and in the nether regions 100 more times.*

There. Now he's slightly less manly than Chris Crocker (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc&feature=channel_page). I'd say this contest is over. :smash:

[desert]

Unfortunately for you, he caught all the bullets in his mouth at once, ate them, then regurgitated them as one giant bullet that he shot at you, obliterating you from the face of the Earth, while the bullets aimed at his crotch were absorbed by his genitalia, which increased in size ten-fold. :oops:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Or, at least that's what he wished had happened, right before his brains were splattered around a three-block radius, along with his vaunted manhood.

:laugh2:

[desert]

No, that's what you wished he wished had happened, right before a 300 mm shell made of hundreds of bullets crashed into your torso at 10% the speed of light.

[Reverend Joe]

Bollocks.

Max Fightmaster beats it because he is a Staff Sergeant. On top of of his regular name, he has a cool-as-hell military rank. Does John Wayne have a military rank? I don't think so! You lose...now make me a sammich. :whip:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Apache_(film)


Captain Kirby York

:jester:

[Askthepizzaguy]

At those speeds, the bullet itself would have blown apart from the friction, and most of the people on the planet would be dead from the shockwave. So looks like you're dead too.

:smash:

Best you can hope for is a draw at this rate, a "you're dead" draw which is hardly a victory. On the other hand, if you agree my story makes more sense, your dude has no head or reproductive organs, a far more likely scenario, and I win.

Either way, you're not walking away from this with a "V", so be the bigger man and admit defeat. :laugh2:

[desert]

You fool! You fail to realize that his manliness was enough to shield the area from the shockwave (which would only be the equivalent of a 100m asteroid hitting the spot you are standing on) and himself as well.

Honestly, this is what Max Fightmaster does for fun:

Back when Max tried being a Turk

https://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr309/desertSypglass/lion-slayer.jpg

That lion's paw is concealing Fightmaster's massive boner.

@Joe: A. Captain isn't as cool a rank as Staff Sergeant.
B. He was only a Captain in the movie, not in real life.
C. John Wayne died of cancer, the least manly way to die. Even Chuck Norris is immune to cancer! If Wayne can't beat Chuck Norris, how can he hope to beat Fightmaster?

[desert]

It appears that my brilliant and impassioned rhetoric has knocked Wayne out of the fight.

[Reverend Joe]

It appears that my brilliant and impassioned rhetoric has knocked Wayne out of the fight.

You talkin' fancy talk, Pilgrim? I'd like to see that fancy talk of yours stand down a Colt Peacemaker.

And for the record, this whole poll is null and void by John Wayne's sheer Awesomeness.

Edit:

A. Captain isn't as cool a rank as Staff Sergeant.
It's not only cooler than Staff Seargernt, it's higher.
B. He was only a Captain in the movie, not in real life.
Max, doesn't even exist, whereas John Wayne does. Suck it. And by the way, that dude in the poster is John Wayne's bastard son by a Turkish lion.
C. John Wayne died of cancer, the least manly way to die. Even Chuck Norris is immune to cancer! If Wayne can't beat Chuck Norris, how can he hope to beat Fightmaster?
Actually, cancer is the manliest way to die. In fact, dying of cancer means your own cells kill you -- meaning that John Wayne could only be killed by his own body, and no other way. And that's not discounting the possibility that he is in Cryogenic deep-freeze awaiting the time when America will need him the most...

Possibly when Obama ****s up so bad that a Fascist is elected president.
:laugh4:
Bad joke, sorry. :shame:

[desert]

Ohhh!! You just LOST! Max Fightmaster is more real than you can possibly imagine!

Didn't you read the OP in my Manliest Names thread?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/27/iraq/main575441.shtml

[Reverend Joe]

Dude... your article is a story about how depressing it has been in America since 2003.

You made me not care about the manliest name, because the dude with the manliest name may very well end up with PTSD.

[rajpoot]

So when does this end? I'm bagging that Wolfman soon crosses Max.

[desert]

Dude... your article is a story about how depressing it has been in America since 2003.

You made me not care about the manliest name, because the dude with the manliest name may very well end up with PTSD.

:shrug:


So when does this end? I'm bagging that Wolfman soon crosses Max.

I actually made the poll infinitely long. I'd thought that within a day or two Fightmaster would get a substantial lead over the others and I could declare victory.

[KukriKhan]

John Wayne overcame the birth-defect of being named Marion Robert Morrison by his Mother, made himself into the manliest Man in the western hemisphere, then worked on Europe and Asia. He was Ghengis bygod Khan, fercryin out loud.

AND he was a Staff Sergeant many times.

[desert]

AND he was a Staff Sergeant many times.
Proof or it didn't happen.

[Rhyfelwyr]

17/16/17... wouldn't it be controversial to have a 3-way tie...

[rajpoot]

Well, it's 18/17/17 again, but if it does end in a three way tie, we can have a new final name then, something like Staff Sergent Wolfman Wayne, or maybe John 'Beerworth' Fightmaster :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thor Skullcrusher.

[Yoyoma1910]

Well, it's 18/17/17 again, but if it does end in a three way tie, we can have a new final name then, something like Staff Sergent Wolfman Wayne, or maybe John 'Beerworth' Fightmaster :laugh4:

Or a fight to the death!

[seireikhaan]

Or a fight to the death!
Or a three-way to produce an ultra-manly offspring. :sweatdrop:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Or a three-way to produce an ultra-manly offspring. :sweatdrop:

That is so.... so..... so very....

manly?

[Reverend Joe]

That is so.... so..... so very....

manly?

Well... if you consider that "gay" means a man having sex with another man... technically it is pretty "manly..." :thinking:

Myself, I think I'll remain effeminate in that respect. I doubt my ego will be hurt much.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well... if you consider that "gay" means a man having sex with another man... technically it is pretty "manly..." :thinking:

Myself, I think I'll remain effeminate in that respect. I doubt my ego will be hurt much.

Hence the question mark. I was questioning the three-way man-spawn's manly lineage.

Although, to be fair, there are some dudes out there who pump iron, ride harleys, fire shotguns into the air, and have stinky, rancid cigar breath, and they happen to be gay. And in most regards, that makes them still more manly than me.

I just likesies the berginer.

[desert]

Fightmaster is victorious. *

*Shameless bump

[KukriKhan]

Fightmaster is victorious. *

*Shameless bump

I dunno. 35% = Fail. in most cultures. Maybe a runoff, so one of 'em clearly gets over 50%

[desert]

I dunno. The Nazis got 43 % of the vote in '33, and they won.

Of course, that sort of thing is bound to happen when there are more than 2 options. :P

[KukriKhan]

What a nice guy.

[desert]

Ambiguous observation is ambiguous.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Alright. Undecided voter here. I do not know any of the three men. Is there anyone who might indoctrinate me?

[||Lz3||]

Alright. Undecided voter here. I do not know any of the three men. Is there anyone who might indoctrinate me?

They don't exist... the poll is about the manliest name not man. :smash:

[desert]

Lz3, AP...

There is a link to info about Fightmaster on p.2.

And WTF, how do you NOT know who John Wayne was?

He was most certainly real! :furious3:

[Aemilius Paulus]

And WTF, how do you NOT know who John Wayne was?
Well, who is he? I believe he was some sort of an American Hollywood actor, right?

[Reverend Joe]

Well, who is he? I believe he was some sort of an American Hollywood actor, right?

:brood:

For your information, he was America: big, tough, misogynistic beyond belief, capable of bouncing bullets off his chest and eating lead for breakfast and yet still able to get the girl at the end of the day every time.

[Crazed Rabbit]

From the article on Mr. Fightmaster:

Staff Sgt. Max Fightmaster, a computer technician, is one of thousands of Army National Guard and Reserve members who could soon be called up to active duty in Iraq.

I'm sorry, but computer tech=nerd=not that manly.

Anyway, maybe we need a new three way poll. If it was down to these three, I'd go for John Wayne.

CR

[desert]

In the 21st century computer technicians are considered to be among the manliest.

[rajpoot]

Anyway, what is going to happen here now? I mean the the poll isn't as even as before, but it's still not uneven enough for a clear winner. So, what now?

[desert]

Well, Fightmaster has been in the lead continuosly for the last week or two, so I guess he wins. Unless the people want a one-on-one between Max and John?