Ha armies vs the AI

[oz_wwjd]

Does anyone notice that the AI has a hard time dealing with all-Horse archer armies? I've been running circles around egypt with a army of 1 general and 12 siver cheron-gold Vardariotai,I can pretty much out-manuever their forces on a regular basis and subject in to devastating mass arrow-fire,usually from the side or rear..

[anweRU]

Well, there is a whole thread dedicated for this, as well as a nice little replay battle showing it in the Guides section, the Hunters All Their Lives thread... The Crusades campaign is very easy as the Turks if you use HA armies & manually control the battles instead of auto-resolve.

[gollum]

HAs are even more cheat units than knights in M2TW - there is nothing stopping them.

[Old Geezer]

The high chevroned archers have higher hit rates so kill significantly more. And see, you are exploiting the poor AI by using maneuver tactics instead of just sitting there running around in circles shooting arrows up in the air towards the enemy until your men run out.

[Gray Beard]

If the AI was smart it would use foot archers, especially elite units against HA units but it isn't and doesn't.

The best way to beat a HA unit is to get longer ranged missiles such as Longbow units or Byzantine Guard Archers. Put the archers on high ground and let the HA's come. You can drop three volleys on them before they can fire one in return because the high ground adds to the range advantage the foot units already have. The silly Cambarian circle is no help to the HA units if arrows fall short. If they charge they die. If they don't they run out of arrows and one or two units of sword/lance based light cavalry can clean them up. Even peasant archers on high ground can hold their own this way though they may need a couple of units with spears or pikes to protect them. Many of the elite archer units melee as well as horse archer units especially if they out number the HA units. Any elite archer unit just kills HA's

Since I generally use auto-resolve I don't ever build and HA unit in a game. The only battles I fight are custom battles. I can build a predominately infantry army that the computer cannot generally beat in auto-resolve out of infantry that is cheaper to maintain and easier to use. That's not really saying much.

[Empirate]

True, foot-based missiles beat mounted missiles hands down. If you're faced with many many horse archers, for example because you've become embroiled in the near east at some point, just bring lots of crossbowmen and enjoy the carnage.
As others and myself have pointed out before, all you need to win against the Mongols is at least even terrain (just withdraw if the battle map favors the Mongols), a solid melee infantry core (coz the main danger in fighting the Mongols lies in their lancers and the ensuing morale problems), and many crossbowmen. The infantry is just there to withstand sudden charges and give your missiles an anchoring point. The actual killing is done by thousands of crossbow bolts, or bodkin arrows or whatever you have.
This infantry+missile spam works well against many kinds of AI army, but is best if they rely on mounted missiles. You'll see the advantages of this vs. the Hungarians, Russians, and Byzantines to some degree, but against the Turks and Mongols, this is actually superior to any other force composition you might try - at least in my experience.
Timurids are a bit more difficult due to their War Elephants and excellent hybrid infantry (:furious3:Sabardar!). If you can pick your terrain, though, it'll be OK, too. It is possible to take out those Elephants with conventional missile fire. I've even found crossbow bolts to work better than ignited arrows due to armor piercing.

Using these tactics, I'm actually glad when the AI brings lots of mounted archers: those are the least dangerous troops at its disposal!

[FactionHeir]

Yup, very well summarized ~:)

Against elephants, ballistae or serpentines work wonders.
Sabadar can be charged down using heavy cavalry.

[Lancome]

Yup, very well summarized ~:)

Against elephants, ballistae or serpentines work wonders.
Sabadar can be charged down using heavy cavalry.


Ballistae could out range and elephant? I should so go try that. Now about the Mongols... yes, the Xbows(Pavise) could defeat the HA... but what kind of Infantry do you recommend? My Spearmen militia(heavyMail armor) didnt stand a chance against a lancer Charge.

[Alp Arlsan]

I remember a Scythian campaign back on RTW where I recreated a Mongol army of HAs' and took europe by storm. Good times.

[FactionHeir]

They don't outrange them, but they are a certain 1 shot kill with flaming ammo.