View Full Version : Rank fire, Fire and advance, Platoon firing
Rank firing is so effective in my campaign, is there any reason to actually research Fire and advance & Platoon firing?
From reading the texts of the technologies they seem to be more of a downgrade from Rank fire than anything else.
incorrect platoon firing is def an upgrade. its constant firing by rank as far as i know.
ie the first rank fire the whole way down the line, then kneel and the second rank do the same, its constant shooting. i could be wrong in my interpretation tho :)
Sir Beane
03-11-2009, 00:17
Fire and advance is completely pointless. I cannot think of any possible use it could have.
Platoon fire is pretty good though.
crazyviking03
03-11-2009, 00:35
the platoon fire is more effective than fire by rank, but I honestly think Fire by rank looks alot cooler when they do it. Also, for some reason platoon fire always makes me think of the US Civil War, so I see British Highlanders using platoon fire, and my mind triggers civil war, and i have a small brain fart lol
Fondor_Yards
03-11-2009, 01:55
Speaking of them, does anyone know why the Ottomans can't use platoon firing? And before you ask, yes I have it researched.
Only certain elite units can use platoon fire, usually Guards or equivalent.
peacemaker
03-11-2009, 04:20
really? Dang...so that means my normal line infantry won't platoon fire? Well at least I know now not to research it...unless is does prussia have any elite units?
A Very Super Market
03-11-2009, 04:30
Prussia has Grenadiers, as well as one other one that I don't remember.
Actually, all factions have grenadiers.
this worries me, since im playing as marthras any of their units able to use it?
DisruptorX
03-11-2009, 04:45
I always assumed that what is apparantly is rank fire was platoon firing. Now I am terribly confused. I have never used guards in battle, they just defend my Imperial capitol and I have never really payed close attention to grenadiers.
Is there a list of who can platoon fire?
As for Maratha, I believe Sihks are their most elite unit. At least, that was the strongest unit I had when I won.
Fondor_Yards
03-11-2009, 06:31
After a quick custom battle, it seems their elite janissary guard unit can't. But their grenadiers and hand mortar unit*what????* can.
Sheogorath
03-11-2009, 06:39
After a quick custom battle, it seems their elite janissary guard unit can't. But their grenadiers and hand mortar unit*what????* can.
Rank fire worked for me with the Janissary guard units in the campaign.
DisruptorX
03-11-2009, 06:57
It makes sense that the Janissaries wouldn't have access to the most advanced firing drills. Afterall, it was during this era that the lack of modern training began to show in Ottoman armies.
Fondor_Yards
03-11-2009, 07:18
Rank fire worked for me with the Janissary guard units in the campaign.
I'm talking about platoon firing.
Fire and advance is completely pointless. I cannot think of any possible use it could have. .
Yeah but it's so cool.
yankeefan05
03-11-2009, 12:51
Im confused about the pros of "Fire and Advance". What is it?
First rank fires and begins to reload, the last rank moves up to the front, fires and begins to the reload. The cycle then repeats itself. It basically ensures that your men are constantly in motion toward the enemy while sustaining a field of fire. It's very cool to se in action
basically the same as platoonfiring, only difference being that F&A makes your troops creep up to the enemy.
Quite conventient in some cases.
Does it get confused as easily as coutermarching in M2 did, and result in your men endlessly marching back and forth without ever actually firing? If so I may give it a miss and stop at fire by rank.
batemonkey
03-11-2009, 13:33
Surley you should be able to choose which type of firing you use in battle?
Yeah but it's so cool.
Indeed.
Here's a modified version of it done in live action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWuaSww3JnA
Perhaps we will be able to re-create this in the upcoming 19th century expansion pack...
Fire and advance is completely pointless. I cannot think of any possible use it could have.
Platoon fire is pretty good though.
Not as useless as you think.
I use it quite alot to close in for mass change... devasting effect :smg::pirate2::charge::surrender2:
I use it quite alot to close in for mass change...:
:wall: GAAAAARRRRRRRR can't edit post....
mass charge
note to myself: check typo before posting.
AussieGiant
03-11-2009, 14:13
I'd say it would be very useful.
Getting closer means more hits and more slaughter...and as the gentlemen said...
At some point you can klick the melee button and charge the buggers!! Game over for that unit, especially if you have Grenadiers with a few stripes of experience.
Eusebius86
03-11-2009, 14:46
Before I research fire and advance, will it cause problems for my units if they are behind cover? I have rank fire researched and have no problem with units firing from cover right now. I'd rather that not change...
Before I research fire and advance, will it cause problems for my units if they are behind cover? I have rank fire researched and have no problem with units firing from cover right now. I'd rather that not change...
No there a button on the interface to activate it like the one for melee.
Does it get confused as easily as countermarching in M2 did, and result in your men endlessly marching back and forth without ever actually firing? If so I may give it a miss and stop at fire by rank.
The formation changing in ETW is vastly better than M2TW but fire and advance does involve a lot of movement; the unit has to open ranks, move forward and so on, which wastes valuable time. The enemy will probably get the first shot in and maybe even a second volley before your unit is ready to open fire. As you know, that's not ideal when a single volley can kill almost 20% of a regiment.
Platoon fire also suffers from this lack of 'alpha strike' ability but makes up in overall rate of fire. It burns through ammo incredibly fast though.
Skirmishers like dragoon and light infantry (and native archers) have the greatest alpha strike ability because all ranks fire immediately.
I'd say it would be very useful.
Getting closer means more hits and more slaughter...and as the gentlemen said...
At some point you can klick the melee button and charge the buggers!! Game over for that unit, especially if you have Grenadiers with a few stripes of experience.
To get even more slaughter, time it with an old style cavalry charge to the rear...
Eusebius86
03-11-2009, 15:23
The formation changing in ETW is vastly better than M2TW but fire and advance does involve a lot of movement; the unit has to open ranks, move forward and so on, which wastes valuable time. The enemy will probably get the first shot in and maybe even a second volley before your unit is ready to open fire. As you know, that's not ideal when a single volley can kill almost 20% of a regiment.
Platoon fire also suffers from this lack of 'alpha strike' ability but makes up in overall rate of fire. It burns through ammo incredibly fast though.
Skirmishers like dragoon and light infantry (and native archers) have the greatest alpha strike ability because all ranks fire immediately.
So are you saying that it is best to first engage the enemy and then use the button interface to select fire and advance?
The formation changing in ETW is vastly better than M2TW but fire and advance does involve a lot of movement; the unit has to open ranks, move forward and so on, which wastes valuable time. The enemy will probably get the first shot in and maybe even a second volley before your unit is ready to open fire. As you know, that's not ideal when a single volley can kill almost 20% of a regiment.
Platoon fire also suffers from this lack of 'alpha strike' ability but makes up in overall rate of fire. It burns through ammo incredibly fast though.
Skirmishers like dragoon and light infantry (and native archers) have the greatest alpha strike ability because all ranks fire immediately.
Sure fire&advance mix up you nicely align regiments but so does charging, so it doesn't really matter.
I usably fire one volley of standard rank fire and then i'll start fire&advance after that first volley. Sure you get some casualties and it is not a tactic for the faint of heart. I used it with great success so far. Be sure to have researched latest model of bayonet for awesome charge bonus. The only time i don't move in for the kill is when i'm in a strong defensive position like a high slope (i place the regiments in 3 row and 2to3 row of regiments.. a real killer as they all fire without hitting each other) or behind a wall. Even when the enemy is behind a wall i use half of my army to fire&advance to keep them occupy and under fire (moral hit?) and the other half running in a charge around the flank.
The enemy will probably get the first shot in and maybe even a second volley before your unit is ready to open fire.
If you use 5+ rows it pretty much continuous fire and advance.
So are you saying that it is best to first engage the enemy and then use the button interface to select fire and advance?
As the name might imply, fire and advance isn't particularly useful when defending because you sacrifice first strike, but I think when attacking the enemy is going to get off the first volley anyway so you might fire and advance a little to even the score before charging home with the bayonet. It still takes so long to execute that you'll probably be finished and ready to charge just in time to eat yet another full volley in the face at point blank range. Yay. YMMV.
YMMV.
Grenadier can't fire & advance, only line infantry & co. can. It as to be done properly or else i agree with you that result can be catastrophic. Done properly (5+ rows) and at the right time (after a FULL rank by fire volley) it is a very efficient tactic. In fact sometime (especially: Prussia, UK & France) the proper AI troops (no levy troops) recognize this tactic and use the only right counter... they charge you. Then it is a matter of who has a cavalry to flank. But if they don't charge you kinda gain the upper hand because contrary to what you said the fire is quite sustained (although it is just 1 rank firing at time but without much pause if the unit a xp enough). and you gain a massive charge bonus when you do charge.
I've just tested this in quick battle and here my conclusion:
For green infantry (no xp bar) you are right they DO take a long time before reloding the first time and are bit slow at reload and advance.
BUT for 3+bar of xp they start the first reload quite fast and advance and fire even faster.
So i would only recommend to use this if you have experience veteran in your army.
Also having 2-4 grenadier on the flank of your line is useful to cover your line infantry with platoon fire and draw enemy fire because AI seam to make a priority to fill them with lead.
Like said earlier a calvary unit is also useful in this situation for final charge from the rear.
Ranking up deeper gives a constant rate of fire, but since less men are firing per rank it has no advantage over rank fire, it is actually inferior because five ranks takes longer to discharge than three ranks for the same number of musket balls fired. It's really difficult to see what advantage fire and advance has over plain fire by rank.
Ginger Yellow
03-12-2009, 13:51
It's really difficult to see what advantage fire and advance has over plain fire by rank.
You can fire and advance. Obviously. Use it if you're in firing range of the enemy and want to get closer. If you don't, don't.
Just as obviously, you can already do this by firing normally, then running forward or charging.
Sheogorath
03-13-2009, 07:07
The purpose of fire and advance is to allow you to reenact that scene from 'Zulu'. That's the only reason it's in the game :P
But this time the Zulu are shooting back at you so it hurts. Good movie though.
NimitsTexan
03-13-2009, 08:08
It should theoretically allow you to close range for a charge while continuing to damage the enemy, theoretically leaving him more vulnerable to the charge when it is delivered.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.