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Oleander Ardens
04-17-2009, 23:11
From this paper (http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?issueID=47&articleID=599)


Democracy by Design or by Evolution?

The record shows, then, that from the standpoint of promoting democracy, the U.S.
occupation of Germany was extraordinarily inept. Yet, despite the miscues, democracy
emerged in Germany. How do we explain this result? A full answer is beyond the compass
of this article, but I can sketch out the beginnings of an explanation.
There are, it seems, two broad theories about how democracy comes into being.
One is that it is the product of social engineering. In this view, democracy is an elaborate
machine with many parts—constitutions, electoral systems, civic organizations,
and so forth—and experts are needed to craft and assemble these parts. Nation builders
tend to favor this model because it validates their role. They are like the highway
engineers who believe that highways can be built anywhere and that they have the
skills to build them.
Belief in this “design” model of democracy accounts for the misperception about
what happened in postwar Germany. The commentators have reasoned backward,
supposing that because democracy can come about only by design, then skilled, purposeful
nation builders must have been at work on the scene.
An opposing model of political development views democracy as an organic,
natural outgrowth in a society that has reached a certain stage of cultural evolution. It
cannot be imposed from the outside if the society is not “ready” for it. When conditions
are propitious, it will happen more or less naturally, without any experts or social
engineers to create it.
What cultural condition makes a nation “ready” for democracy? The factor I
would propose is a variable that has been strangely neglected in the study of democracy:
moderation of the amount of leadership political violence. Where political leaders are
inclined to use violence against each other—violence in the form of political murders,
gang attacks, and armed revolts—democracy cannot survive. It will tend to collapse into
civil war or a repressive dictatorship.
From this perspective, democracy is not at all complicated. It may take many
complex forms, but the core concept is elementary: leaders have decided not to
employ force against each other. As a result, they necessarily turn to nonviolent
methods, such as counting heads (elections), to settle their disputes. In this “cultural”
model, democracy is simply the default mode of government where leaders
are peaceful, and any group of friends and neighbors can start it up spontaneously.


This sort of development, I suggest, is what happened in Germany. Long before
World War II, Germany had evolved a basically nonviolent politics. Even before 1850,
democratic forms of government were emerging, with elections and legislative bodies,
and participants had long transcended the custom of political murder. By 1871,
the country was a democracy, with universal manhood suffrage and a national parliament.
The Hitler regime of 1933 thus represented a bizarre departure from a long
democratic tradition. It was a regime in which thugs and murderers intimidated and
displaced the normal political class.


After the war, the country reverted to its peaceful political tradition. Hitler’s
ideas were thoroughly discredited, his thugs disappeared, and the nonviolent democratic
leaders of the prewar era came forward. They simply did what came naturally:
started political parties, organized campaigns, drew up constitutions, and staffed the
government. I believe the same interpretation applies to Japan, Austria, and Italy.
Allied policies did not create democracy in these countries. Instead, the deviant, violent
leaders of the prior regime departed the scene, leaving a cadre of leaders who
were not inclined to use force against each other. Given this precondition, democracy
came into being naturally.


It will be some time before we can fully assess this interpretation of how democracy
comes about. Nevertheless, it seems clear, as a number of scholars are now observing,
that we need to broaden our theories to include the cultural dimension of the
process (see, e.g., Carothers 2002). After all, it is clear that the overwhelming majority
of military interventions that have sought to promote democracy have failed.

These many failures suggest that democracy involves cultural factors not amenable to
direct manipulation by policymakers.


As I died study the postwar period quite a bit, I must support this paper. Claiming that the USA "created" democracy in postwar Germany (or Italy) is certainly redicolous. I have too few knowledge about Japan to be make a definite judgement.

Mangudai
04-20-2009, 07:47
hmmm... so Pakistan is not ready for democracy???

Oleander Ardens
04-22-2009, 13:29
hmmm... so Pakistan is not ready for democracy??? Care to explain? :candle:

Marshal Murat
04-23-2009, 05:13
Sounds like Rudyard Kiplings "White Man's Burden", but it doesn't flow.

Oleander Ardens
04-23-2009, 12:52
Sounds like Rudyard Kiplings "White Man's Burden", but it doesn't flow.

Would you also care to explain? :stupido2:

Marshal Murat
04-23-2009, 19:27
Would you also care to explain?
An opposing model of political development views democracy as an organic,
natural outgrowth in a society that has reached a certain stage of cultural evolution. It
cannot be imposed from the outside if the society is not “ready” for it. When conditions
are propitious, it will happen more or less naturally, without any experts or social
engineers to create it.

The author creates something of a paradox by saying that democracy can't be "forced" on people, only "home-grown" as it were. If it can't be forced (by the "civil engineers"), then it somewhat inherently places less developed societies with unique characteristics below those who have reached a "cultural evolution". To me it is a paradox of sorts, because he says that we can't make people take on democracy, but that it will occur naturally when they reach a certain level of western enlightenment. To me it smacks of the thought that we must give people the tools (western culture) to reach this level of "democracy", even though he says we aren't supposed to do that because it will fail.

Oleander Ardens
04-23-2009, 23:09
The author creates something of a paradox by saying that democracy can't be "forced" on people, only "home-grown" as it were. If it can't be forced (by the "civil engineers"), then it somewhat inherently places less developed societies with unique characteristics below those who have reached a "cultural evolution".


I don't know about "cultural evolution" but I think that the any idea needs something in which to place. This "earth" can be a different properties, but needs a certain quality so that the idea can take roots and start to grow. This ground has proven to be fertile in Germany for a long time and created already some flowers like the liberal Parlament in Frankfurt.


To me it is a paradox of sorts, because he says that we can't make people take on democracy, but that it will occur naturally when they reach a certain level of western enlightenment. To me it smacks of the thought that we must give people the tools (western culture) to reach this level of "democracy", even though he says we aren't supposed to do that because it will fail.

This paradoxes happen when you sharply devide the objects to fit your dualistic conceptions and don't take the realistic interactions, developments and shades into account. For example democracy in India was not the result of a British masterplan to allow the Indian people to govern themselves without the British. A very small part of the Indian society became attracted through interactions, education and experience to the western ideas and among them was democracy. After a rocky ride democracy was introduced by a now larger part of the Indians and became slowly a norm and a natural part of politcal life in India.

rotorgun
04-24-2009, 20:57
I believe that for democracy, in whatever form, to be successful, the governed must demonstrate that they are willing to fight for those rights. Whether they resist through violent or non-violent means is a matter of the social and cultural factors within a country, and the leaders vision. That there must be a struggle is almost certain. There are very few examples of democracy evolving without a struggle naturally. Most that have endured resulted from the governed resisting oppression by those in power. In both Germany and Japan there existed forms of democratic governments prior to the World War 2. Right wing extremists took control by initially taking advantage of the weaknesses within the systems of government that existed. There were insufficient checks and balances that allowed for the rise of corruption and militarism to flourish during times of great economic and social upheaval caused by the world wide depression.

I feel that the greatest contribution by the occupying armies after the defeat of the Axis governments, was to provide for security and order over a long enough period to allow the former democratic processes to return. In the case of each, there were significant improvements to the previous democratic constitutions made which allowed for a better balance of the dynamic political forces inherent in each country. Democracy certainly wasn't built there, but rather protected for a period until the existing structures could be rebuilt.

Mangudai
04-30-2009, 03:38
Care to explain? :candle:


What cultural condition makes a nation “ready” for democracy? The factor I
would propose is a variable that has been strangely neglected in the study of democracy:
moderation of the amount of leadership political violence. Where political leaders are
inclined to use violence against each other—violence in the form of political murders,
gang attacks, and armed revolts—democracy cannot survive. It will tend to collapse into
civil war or a repressive dictatorship.
From this perspective, democracy is not at all complicated. It may take many
complex forms, but the core concept is elementary: leaders have decided not to
employ force against each other. As a result, they necessarily turn to nonviolent
methods, such as counting heads (elections), to settle their disputes. In this “cultural”
model, democracy is simply the default mode of government where leaders
are peaceful, and any group of friends and neighbors can start it up spontaneously.

If you buy the argument, it would imply that Pakistan is not ready for democracy. I'm not sure if I buy it.